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Which Is More Credible?

Debate Information

 If I thought you were a credible witness, I might believe that a green elephant with wings flew over your roof. (Sonofason)

Which explains why you will believe anything and everything at face value.
In other words, you believe what someone told you, who was told by someone else who said a number of people read about some ancient writings that were unearthed more than 300 years after the alleged events and therefore unverifiable. They were written, 3rd hand by more than 40 unknown authors over a period of 1300 years and found in a cave by a cult of exiled hermits.

Those are reasons not to believe a word of it and you give that sort of nonsense more credibility than a green elephant with wings flying over your roof?
That is total lunacy. (Swolliw)
JesusistheonlyGod777PlaffelvohfenAlofRI
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  • Swolliw said:
     If I thought you were a credible witness, I might believe that a green elephant with wings flew over your roof. (Sonofason)

    Which explains why you will believe anything and everything at face value.
    In other words, you believe what someone told you, who was told by someone else who said a number of people read about some ancient writings that were unearthed more than 300 years after the alleged events and therefore unverifiable. They were written, 3rd hand by more than 40 unknown authors over a period of 1300 years and found in a cave by a cult of exiled hermits.

    Those are reasons not to believe a word of it and you give that sort of nonsense more credibility than a green elephant with wings flying over your roof?
    That is total lunacy. (Swolliw)
    Do you believe when we read the Illiad, we're reading Homer's words? What about in the Gallic Wars, is that what Julius Caesar wrote?
  • @JustinC
    Do you believe when we read the Illiad, we're reading Homer's words? 

    Yes, and I believe that the Bible was the words of some 40 unknown authors.
    And, just like the Illiad, it is fictional.
    So, we are left wondering once again....what is your point?


    PlaffelvohfenAlofRI
  • Swolliw said:
    @JustinC
    Do you believe when we read the Illiad, we're reading Homer's words? 

    Quote
    "Yes, and I believe that the Bible was the words of some 40 unknown authors.
    And, just like the Illiad, it is fictional.
    So, we are left wondering once again....what is your point?"


    This was not at all my question. Let me try again.

    When we read the fictional story of the Illiad. In your opinion, how confident are you that we are reading what Homer wrote down in the 8th century BC?



  • DeeDee 2800 Pts
    @JustinC

    Historians claim Homer may never have existed the proof for Caesar is pretty good also personally I agree with most credible Historians that Jesus lived the difference being no credible Historian accept miracle claims and the divinity of Jesus.

    A belief in Caesar does not dictate how a believer in such live their lives and is thus harmless the opposite is not the case as I’m sure if you think about it will accept 
    AlofRI
  • Dee said:
    @JustinC

    Historians claim Homer may never have existed the proof for Caesar is pretty good also personally I agree with most credible Historians that Jesus lived the difference being no credible Historian accept miracle claims and the divinity of Jesus.

    A belief in Caesar does not dictate how a believer in such live their lives and is thus harmless the opposite is not the case as I’m sure if you think about it will accept 
    Lol not my point at all. Im going to call it, its's been interesting. You're not willing to discuss and I'm no longer interested in continuing the conversation. Or any of the other ones. Good luck on your pursuits to show you're right. 

    If ou wanted to engage on a topic, you can take my science debate about why natural selection is not true. Ill engage there. Then we can completely drop any discussion of religion if evolution by natural selection is proved in your mind. 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 2800 Pts
    @JustinC

    Lol not my point at all. Im going to call it, its's been interesting.

    Had you actually got a point?

    You're not willing to discuss and I'm no longer interested in continuing the conversation. Or any of the other ones. 

    Translation : you’re sick of not being able to support your BS , you contradict yourself consistently 

    Good luck on your pursuits to show you're right. 

    I don’t care if I’m wrong the thing is I’m not though as every argument you make is crushed which is why you had no defence to biblical slavery , your morality “ of the Holocaust or why your god has not got free will .....

    If ou wanted to engage on a topic, you can take my science debate about why natural selection is not true. 

    “Science debate” hilarious, this from a guy who doesn’t know what the term theory means 

    Ill engage there. Then we can completely drop any discussion of religion if evolution by natural selection is proved in your mind. 


    Evolution is fact I don’t argue against what is backed by mountains of evidence , if you have any problems with the theory send your peer reviewed papers to those you’re disputing such with 
  • Dee said:
    @JustinC

    Lol not my point at all. Im going to call it, its's been interesting.

    Had you actually got a point?

    You're not willing to discuss and I'm no longer interested in continuing the conversation. Or any of the other ones. 

    Translation : you’re sick of not being able to support your BS , you contradict yourself consistently 

    Good luck on your pursuits to show you're right. 

    I don’t care if I’m wrong the thing is I’m not though as every argument you make is crushed which is why you had no defence to biblical slavery , your morality “ of the Holocaust or why your god has not got free will .....

    If ou wanted to engage on a topic, you can take my science debate about why natural selection is not true. 

    “Science debate” hilarious, this from a guy who doesn’t know what the term theory means 

    Ill engage there. Then we can completely drop any discussion of religion if evolution by natural selection is proved in your mind. 


    Evolution is fact I don’t argue against what is backed by mountains of evidence , if you have any problems with the theory send your peer reviewed papers to those you’re disputing such with 
    Evolution by natural selection is a fact? Weird. In 2016 there was a conference where over 300 scientists with high credentials came together to discuss if Darwins theory should be put to bed... in favor of non-random natural genetic engineering systems inside the cell. The ideas been further iterated on and is supported by a mountain of hard data.  It's a super cool and interesting theory. But I guess that's beneath you too? Maybe don't join that debate then. I'm trying to sort it out and you'll probably start with some unrelated claim that Darwins theory isn't racist and call me dishonest. To be clear, the theory found in "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

  • DeeDee 2800 Pts
    edited October 14
    @JustinC


    Evolution by natural selection is a fact? Weird. In 2016 there was a conference where over 300 scientists with high credentials came together to discuss if Darwins theory should be put to bed... in favor of non-random natural genetic engineering systems inside the cell. 



    You admitted openly you cannot defend any of your previous positions so with this topic you do want to debate and start with an  appeal to authority what a surprise......not 

    Translation , You  think Shapiro supports what exactly ? Despite   the quote mining and misrepresentation of the ID advocates Shapiro does not reject evolution, is not an intelligent design advocate and has openly criticised and rejected intelligent design.


    The ideas been further iterated on and is supported by a mountain of hard data.  

    But mountains of ‘hard data’ mean nothing according to you as you stated “it’s only an opinion “ right?

    Shapiro findings have been deemed controversial and it seems you think in some way support what exactly? 


    It's a super cool and interesting theory

    Well you go and have a circle jerk with them because you agree with them 

    But I guess that's beneath you too?

    The difference is I’ve read up on this in the past you have not , you get your information from religious websites that are misinforming you 

     Maybe don't join that debate then. I'm trying to sort it out and you'll probably start with some unrelated claim that Darwins theory isn't racist and call me dishonest. 

    You mean you actually want to debate now?

    A racist theory? 

    Let me help......

     New Scientist

    Evolutionary  theory is a descriptive science. It cannot tell us what is right and wrong.

    Rather than attack evolution directly, some try to tar it by association. The claim is often made that the theory of evolution leads inevitably to eugenics and to atrocities like those perpetrated by Hitler. These claims are irrelevant to the reality of evolution and are also largely untrue.



    Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13689-evolution-myths-evolutionary-theory-leads-to-racism-and-genocide/#ixzz6apDVyzyv

    To be clear, the theory found in "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life


    Read above 



     Despite the quote mining and misrepresentation of the ID advocates Shapiro does not reject evolution, is not an intelligent design advocate and has openly criticised and rejected intelligent design.
    JustinC
  • @JustinC
    When we read the fictional story of the Illiad. In your opinion, how confident are you that we are reading what Homer wrote down in the 8th century BC?

    I'm not and I don't care because the Illiad (a great piece of literature) is an epic poem based on supposed events.
    However, we don't get r soles coming along trying to re-interpret a passage from the Illiad to mean something else to suit his own ends whenever the truth comes to hand.
    At least Homer wasn't dumb enough to make up fanciful stories about Achillies' mum grabbing him by the heals.
    AlofRI
  • @Swolliw

    Quote
    "At least Homer wasn't dumb enough to make up fanciful stories about Achillies' mum grabbing him by the heals"."

    Well as you said above. Not necessarily Homer (or whoever wrote it in the 8th century) but whatever is what got to us. Right? Like portions could have been added or changed 50, 100, 500 years later right? Your view if I understand your answer correctly is for writings of Homer, Plato, Caesar, etc we simply cannot take a stance that this what we think those individuals wrote down. Gallic Wars may have been written by Caser, maybe not. 

    But if you take this view, at what point do you define the line as being modern enough to claim we can be sure this person wrote it. Like for example I don't think you'd dispute Jefferson wrote things that we claim he wrote down. 

    I'm not talking correctness of the assumptions or implications of these ancient writings. The authenticity of knowing this is the same document which, for example, Caesar sent out as "The Gallic Wars". 



    Quote
    "However, we don't get r soles coming along trying to re-interpret a passage from the Illiad to mean something else to suit his own ends whenever the truth comes to hand"

    -- agreed. People shouldn't try to translate ancient languages to suit their needs. Look at the original language, colloquial sayings and meanings for that time, understand the mind frame of who was writing and what they were trying to communicate. It'd be easier if The Bible was written as one book and not a library of smaller books and letters. But it is what it is. Thats what we have. Ill take it. None of Jesus's followers in the 1st century had a Bible, im happy I have access to all of this in one place. There's so much to understand given how differently we think. 
  • @JustinC
    I'm not talking correctness of the assumptions or implications of these ancient writings. The authenticity of knowing this is the same document which, for example, Caesar sent out as "The Gallic Wars". 

    Good post as it stands however I was addressing the issue that theists have a nasty, disreputable habit of questioning passages or inferring a different meaning when such a passage in its unexpurgated form has been proven wrong. The point slipped your memory, did it?

    How's that bet going....did you research when biblical scholars first inferred different meanings to the events in Genesis?
  • God the Father has not left you here unaware and without knowledge. Though His words are old to you as you're constrained by Time and physics, those words will live-on into Eternity and they will never fade away. You do yourself an eternal disfavor by not seeking God in His written word and His Living Word, Jesus Christ, and endeavoring to know Him intimately as your Lord and Savior and Mediator for your sin thereby finding life in His Kingdom subsequent to the death of your body in Time (John 3:16-18). Without Jesus as your God and Savior, you have no hope (John 14:6)!


  • Swolliw said:
    @JustinC
    I'm not talking correctness of the assumptions or implications of these ancient writings. The authenticity of knowing this is the same document which, for example, Caesar sent out as "The Gallic Wars".

    Quote 
    "Good post as it stands however I was addressing the issue that theists have a nasty, disreputable habit of questioning passages or inferring a different meaning when such a passage in its unexpurgated form has been proven wrong."
    -- What do the habits of theists have to do with this inquiry? You just said good post. You haven't said anything about the substance of the question.

    Also ill be curious to see what "theory" you cite to say it's proven. The same argument for the last 100 years that your side makes and changes and the Bible, well depending on the book was written at least 2000 years ago. Not changing its view. Just those who read too much in to fit with science. Especially where the Bible.isnt speaking on that. 

    Like for both sides. Creation of the universe from nothing is not what's explicitly said in Genesis 1:1. We infer it to try and make it fit. It's unnecessary and likely an incorrect approach on both sides. 

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