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God's Achievements

Debate Information

1) Creates Adam and Eve.

2) Creates evil.

3) Populates the world through incest.

4) Surprised that evil exists.

5) Clueless about how to deal with evil.

6) Drowns the whole world except one family.

7) Populates the world through incest; again.

8) Surprised that evil exists; again.

9) Sends diseases, starvation, plagues, tsunamis, You name it.

10) Still bewildered at the existence of evil.

11) Blames the devil; that he created.

12) Rapes a virgin married woman so that she can give birth to himself as his own son so we can torture and kill him/his son so that he can forgive us for being so evil.

13) Says, "just joking" three days later and brings his son back to life, coz he is lonely.

14) Claims omniscience and omnipotence.

15) Expects to be worshipped for his wisdom.

Yup, He sure is worthy of the praise, Isn't He?
JesusistheonlyGod777PlaffelvohfenHappy_KillbotAlofRIRickeyDxlJ_dolphin_473
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  • edited October 14
    that should be corrected to " Killed satan." that's where "fairy" dust comes from, the top leading cause of homosexuality.


    Happy_KillbotAlofRI
  • @JesusistheonlyGod777 ;
    that should be corrected to " Killed satan." that's where "fairy" dust comes from, the top leading cause of homosexuality.
    LMFAO!

    I read that and nearly fell out of my chair!

    What you are in reality is worse than the most ridiculous caricature I could possibly envision!
    PlaffelvohfenAlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • AlofRIAlofRI 1014 Pts
    So, we can't blame evil on Satan anymore, 'cause he's dead. So we have to blame evil on God now?? After all, he must be making faulty creations if they are evil. OR he, in all his omnipotence, is allowing evil thoughts to control his creations. If Satan is dead where does evil come from?

    One old comedian made a living saying "Da devil made me do it!" I guess now he would have to change that to "God made me do it!"? Da devil is dead?? Christianity is so confusing. I guess Blaise Pascal was right when he said: "Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions."  Religion is SO violent and evil, sometimes. It's hard to argue with the list at the top of the page, so I just forget it. ;-)
    PlaffelvohfenSwolliw
  • Swolliw said:
    1) Creates Adam and Eve.
    - True, but perhaps better said Adam then Eve. 

    2) Creates evil.
    -- Incorrect. 

    3) Populates the world through incest.
    -- The genome would have been mutation free. Thus, the physical ramifications on the offspring would be mitigated for generations.

    How else do you suggest Adam and Eve were to populate the Earth beyond a single generation anyway? 

    God later commands his people to not commit incest once the population was large enough. 


    4) Surprised that evil exists.
    -- Incorrect. God can see all of time within our Universe at once. Think of a description of how a quantum computer works. That's like being surprised your team won, after you saw the headline they won, while watching a recording of the game. 


    5) Clueless about how to deal with evil.
    -- Jesus contradicts this entirely. His message was about how God is dealing with evil. And how it will, in the end, be dealt with. 


    6) Drowns the whole world except one family.
    -- and some Nehalem. But true enough. An act of judgement for the evil that was committed. And it was some REALLY bad stuff. 



    7) Populates the world through incest; again.
    -- So your contention would be another special creation? Why?



    8) Surprised that evil exists; again.
    -- Same response as above. This is incorrect. 


    9) Sends diseases, starvation, plagues, tsunamis, You name it.
    -- incorrect. Sin caused God's design to change. Those weren't part of the design nor will they be after Christ returns and remakes this Earth. We'll get to live here as was designed. It's going to be amazing. 


    10) Still bewildered at the existence of evil.
    -- Again, nonsensical. 

    11) Blames the devil; that he created.
    -- Incorrect. A different spiritual being not even called by its name had an impact. The blame is on humans...


    12) Rapes a virgin married woman so that she can give birth to himself as his own son so we can torture and kill him/his son so that he can forgive us for being so evil.
    -- She consented. There was no sex. Define rape?


    13) Says, "just joking" three days later and brings his son back to life, coz he is lonely.
    -- Incorrect. Jesus raises himself conquering death and providing an undeserved means with which we can still be in God's presence after death. 


    14) Claims omniscience and omnipotence.
    -- Depends on how you define them and how you define claim. Too broad to know what you mean. 


    15) Expects to be worshipped for his wisdom.
    -- Incorrect. Deserves to be worshipped, for much other than wisdom. Also, depends on how you define worship. 


    Yup, He sure is worthy of the praise, Isn't He?
    -- With every breath He gives us




  • that should be corrected to " Killed satan." that's where "fairy" dust comes from, the top leading cause of homosexuality.


    So also the leading cause of guys and girls hooking up at college parties too? 

    Even your "clever" witicisims are horribly theologically inaccurate. 
    JesusistheonlyGod777
  • AlofRI said:
    So, we can't blame evil on Satan anymore, 'cause he's dead. So we have to blame evil on God now?? After all, he must be making faulty creations if they are evil. OR he, in all his omnipotence, is allowing evil thoughts to control his creations. If Satan is dead where does evil come from?

    One old comedian made a living saying "Da devil made me do it!" I guess now he would have to change that to "God made me do it!"? Da devil is dead?? Christianity is so confusing. I guess Blaise Pascal was right when he said: "Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions."  Religion is SO violent and evil, sometimes. It's hard to argue with the list at the top of the page, so I just forget it. ;-)
    "Christianity is so confusing".

    Becoming a Christian is not. Acknowledge your place as a sinner before God, repent, commit to following Jesus. 

    The sanctification process afterwards which has nothing to do with being saved is hard and confusing and full of failure. But luckily has nothing to do salvation. Although each Christian will still be judged for the terrible things they've done. 

    Including the ones pushing this fake self help version of Jesus which propagates via the modern mega church models and creates falsely assumed contradictions. 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 685 Pts
    edited October 15
    Without Jesus Christ as your God and Mediator for your sins, you will die in sin and die in Hell. Lacking knowledge of the spiritual will not alleviate your culpability before Christ at the Judgment (John 8:24; Revelation 20:11-15).

    1) Creates Adam and Eve.

    Yes, God created Adam and Eve in His own spiritual image and endowed them with certain of His communicable attributes apart from the beasts of the field.

    2) Creates evil.

    Incorrect. God does not create evil and the KJV translators in Isaiah 45:7, in their rush to publish in 1611, translated the Hebrew "ra" out of context for that passage of Scripture as "evil" when the proper translation is "calamity." God does not create evil but only its possibility as evil is the default of righteousness which both are of necessity in order for "free will" to exist.

    Isaiah 45:7 in the NASB

    The One forming light and creating darkness,
    Causing well-being and creating calamity;
    I am the Lord who does all these.

    3) Populates the world through incest.

    Incorrect. Incest did not exist until the issuance of the Levitical Law through Moses in response to the human genome having become sufficiently corrupted to result in genomic deformities/abnormalities in human offspring. From Adam and Eve until the giving of the Law, there was no incest, only marriage between close relatives. 

    4) Surprised that evil exists.

    Incorrect. God is not surprised that evil exists; in fact, you and I were created in response to evil that manifest in the Kingdom before the beginning of Time; in fact, the presence of evil in the Kingdom is the precursor for the creation of matter, Time, this Universe our genome. The Gospel of Jesus Christ i.e. the plan of God to deal with Satan's rebellion was ordained "before the beginning of Time."

    It is written,

    8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,  2 Timothy 1:8-10 (NKJV) 

    God is omniscient and was and is fully aware of evil and its destruction but God is also aware of the necessity for same if His created beings are to possess free will and the ability to love Him with purity and authenticity. 

    5) Clueless about how to deal with evil.

    Incorrect. God the Father's plan to deal with evil was ordained before the beginning of time, see #4 above. God has dealt with evil from the beginning as noted in Genesis 3:15 through the Son, Jesus Christ, born of the seed of the woman and God provided a word picture of His plan to deal with evil through the shedding of innocent blood and the clothing of mankind in HIS perfect righteousness as demonstrated in Genesis 3:21.

    6) Drowns the whole world except one family.

    The generation of Noah had become so corrupt and vile and sexually perverse that God the Father refused to set-apart a people group called after His own Name from that generation (Genesis 6); after all, it would be through this special people group that God the Father would bring forth His Messiah who would be a blessing to all the families of the Earth (Genesis 12:3). So then, Noah found favor with God due to Noah's righteousness and obedience to our Lord (Genesis 6:8) and saved Noah and seven of his family through the Flood and began anew with them eventually setting apart a people ground through the Patriarchy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob AKA "Israel" and one of the 12-children of Jacob i.e. "Judah" would be the progenitor of Messiah Yeshua through Mary through Heli. 

    7) Populates the world through incest; again.

    Again, there was no edict concerning marriage between close relatives until the giving of the Law through Moses, see: https://www.gotquestions.org/incest-in-the-Bible.html

    8) Surprised that evil exists; again.

    Again, God is not surprised by evil and entered Time in the flesh (Philippians 2:8; John 1) to deal with it.

    It is written,

    "the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8 (NASB)

    9) Sends diseases, starvation, plagues, tsunamis, You name it.

    Diseases, starvation, plagues, weather events, are all the resultant of the Adamic Curse that included a curse on nature.

    16 To the woman He said: “I will sharply increase your pain in childbirth; in pain you will bring forth children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” 17 And to Adam He said: “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat, cursed is the ground because of you; through toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.18 Both thorns and thistles it will yield for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.…  Genesis 3:16-18

    10) Still bewildered at the existence of evil.

    Again, God is not bewildered at the existence of evil but is dealing with it through the Son, Jesus Christ (1 John 3:8b).

    11) Blames the devil; that he created.

    Satan was God's chief cherub angel and through free will Satan opted to covet God's authority and sovereignty and thus rebelled and introduced sin into the Kingdom...this is the reason for Satan's extrication from the Kingdom and the causation for the creation of Time, matter, the Universe, the human genome.

    11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

    “You were the seal of perfection,
    Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
    13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
    Every precious stone was your covering:
    The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
    Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
    Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
    The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
    Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

    14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
    I established you;
    You were on the holy mountain of God;
    You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
    15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
    Till iniquity was found in you.

    16 “By the abundance of your trading
    You became filled with violence within,
    And you sinned;
    Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
    Out of the mountain of God;
    And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
    From the midst of the fiery stones.

    17 “Your heart was [b]lifted up because of your beauty;
    You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
    I cast you to the ground,
    I laid you before kings,
    That they might gaze at you.

    18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
    By the multitude of your iniquities,
    By the iniquity of your trading;
    Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
    It devoured you,
    And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
    In the sight of all who saw you.
    19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
    You have become a horror,
    And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”   Ezekiel 28:11-19

    Jesus said,

    And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.  Luke 10:18 (NASB)

    12) Rapes a virgin married woman so that she can give birth to himself as his own son so we can torture and kill him/his son so that he can forgive us for being so evil.

    Mary was not "raped" but was impregnated by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Son, who is God, was born into the World to defeat the works of the devil through the shedding of innocent blood as atonement for our sin (Philippians 2:8; John 3:16; Hebrews 10).

    13) Says, "just joking" three days later and brings his son back to life, coz he is lonely.

    The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ was essential for the atonement of mankind's sin (Hebrews 9:22) as the resurrection of Jesus was demonstrative of the resurrection of the righteous who have trusted in Jesus as Lord as Jesus is the "first fruits" of those who will be resurrected unto righteousness and defeat defeat death, Hell, the grave, the Devil through the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:20).

    Jesus prophesied His own resurrection through the life of Jonah,

    "for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."  Matthew 12:40 (NASB)

    14) Claims omniscience and omnipotence.

    God is omniscient and omnipotent.

    7 Where shall I go from your Spirit?
        Or where shall I flee from your presence?
    8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
        If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
    9 If I take the wings of the morning
        and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
    10 even there your hand shall lead me,
        and your right hand shall hold me.  Psalm 139:7-10

    15) Expects to be worshipped [worshiped] for his wisdom.

    God desires worship as He is Lord of Heaven and Earth and He will judge the living and the dead.

    It is written,

    18 For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it [s]a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited),

    “I am the Lord, and there is none else.
    19 “I have not spoken in secret,
    In [t]some dark land;
    I did not say to the [u]offspring of Jacob,
    ‘Seek Me in [v]a waste place’;
    I, the Lord, speak righteousness,
    Declaring things that are upright.

    20 “Gather yourselves and come;
    Draw near together, you fugitives of the nations;
    They have no knowledge,
    Who carry about [w]their wooden idol
    And pray to a god who cannot save.
    21 “Declare and set forth your case;
    Indeed, let them consult together.
    Who has announced this from of old?
    Who has long since declared it?
    Is it not I, the Lord?
    And there is no other God besides Me,
    A righteous God and a Savior;
    There is none except Me.
    22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
    For I am God, and there is no other.
    23 “I have sworn by Myself,
    The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
    And will not turn back,
    That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
    24 “They will say of Me, ‘Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.’
    Men will come to Him,
    And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
    25 “In the Lord all the offspring of Israel
    Will be justified and will glory.”  Isaiah 45:18-25

    Yup, He sure is worthy of the praise, Isn't He?

    Yes, my God is worthy of all praise and without Him as my Lord I would have no hope.













  • RickeyD said:
    Quote
    "Without Jesus Christ as your God and Mediator for your sins, you will die in sin and die in Hell."
    -- We die sinful. We are already dead before judgement. All are judged according to their actions and held accountable. Then if Christ's righteousness covers your unrighteousness, you must have desired to spend eternity with God, followed Christ, and enter his presence for eternity. If you chose to want to spend eternity apart from God, you're given what you wanted and God leaves you alone. In a place where his presence has been utterly removed. 

    Anything further about what happens to you at this point is reading things into the text that are not there. 





    11) Blames the devil; that he created.
    Quote
    "Satan was God's chief cherub angel and through free will Satan opted to covet God's authority and sovereignty and thus rebelled and introduced sin into the Kingdom...this is the reason for Satan's extrication from the Kingdom and the causation for the creation of Time, matter, the Universe, the human genome. "
    -- I think you're reading for too much into the text. We're never given this beings actual name, just a title. Furthermore, I'd suggest it's not even clear the Bible is talking about the actual same entity in the garden and say in Job.

    Furthermore, where do you source this idea that the Satan has anything to do with creation of the Universe?

    There's God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) the godhead at the top. 

    Then the sons of god, elohim. The Satan was included in this group but there's no clear hierarchy. 

    Then angels (messenger) which again is a job description rather than designation of unique type of being. Many times the "sons of god", these other divine beings, were delivering messages and thus in that act would be completing the duties of that title/job/position/task. Whatever you want to call it. 


    Yup, He sure is worthy of the praise, Isn't He?

    Quote
    "Yes, my God is worthy of all praise and without Him as my Lord I would have no hope."

    Amen!!










  • RickeyDRickeyD 685 Pts
    edited October 15
    @JustinC ; Jesus calls Him Satan (Matthew 16:23) "Satana" in the Greek = Strongs Greek #4567 = the adversary or Satan or devil (Hebrew-Satan)  and the Devil (John 8:44) "Diabolou" in the Greek = Strongs Greek #1228 = the slanderer or the devil. If Jesus used these names, that's good enough for me.

    Jesus and the Holy Spirit clearly tell you what happens to those who reject Jesus as Lord (John 8:24). No one is reading anything into the text...you must study via the Spirit, not man.

    Satan, his rebellion, is the causation for our creation in Time. Have you not studied, do you not know the Spirit? From the Genesis forward, the Holy Spirit explains that causation for our entire existence in Time is in response to Lucifer's, Satan's, the Evil One's, rebellion in the Kingdom. Had Satan not rebelled, there would be absolutely no reason for the Father to have endured 6020-years of a petulant, rebellious, sinful, vile, human kind. We are in the midst of an unfathomable cosmic struggle that was actually won by Yeshua-Jesus at the Cross. The primary reason Jesus Christ entered Time was to defeat the works of the devil...there is no other reason for our existence and this world and our bodies as we know them are only for a time and they will be done away with and a new Earth and a new Heaven will replace this one as will the resurrected body of the redeemed.

    I am being censored on by the AI in this forum...and there are words I cannot use and and I cannot copy and paste in this particular debate...


  • RickeyD said:
    @JustinC ; Jesus calls Him Satan (Matthew 16:23) "Satana" in the Greek = Strongs Greek #4567 = the adversary or Satan or devil (Hebrew-Satan)  and the Devil (John 8:44) "Diabolou" in the Greek = Strongs Greek #1228 = the slanderer or the devil. If Jesus used these names, that's good enough for me.

    Jesus and the Holy Spirit clearly tell you what happens to those who reject Jesus as Lord (John 8:24). No one is reading anything into the text...you must study via the Spirit, not man.

    Satan, his rebellion, is the causation for our creation in Time. Have you not studied, do you not know the Spirit? From the Genesis forward, the Holy Spirit explains that causation for our entire existence in Time is in response to Lucifer's, Satan's, the Evil One's, rebellion in the Kingdom. Had Satan not rebelled, there would be absolutely no reason for the Father to have endured 6020-years of a petulant, rebellious, sinful, vile, human kind. We are in the midst of an unfathomable cosmic struggle that was actually won by Yeshua-Jesus at the Cross. The primary reason Jesus Christ entered Time was to defeat the works of the devil...there is no other reason for our existence and this world and our bodies as we know them are only for a time and they will be done away with and a new Earth and a new Heaven will replace this one as will the resurrected body of the redeemed.

    I am being censored on by the AI in this forum...and there are words I cannot use and and I cannot copy and paste in this particular debate...


    I'm with you on the fact Jesus used it. Although you're missing that definite article. Its "the satan". 

    I'm saying if God didn't feel the need to provide the beings name, we shouldn't dignify it with one either. The adversary is a title given to a being which would have an actual name. Lucifer is also not a name of this being. That didn't even appear until the English translations started popping up. I'm not saying you're wrong there, just not to give one being too much power. 

    Modern Christians like to put like Jesus vs "the devil",  the Satan. I mean what makes you bring these two ideas together in the verse above anyway. What is the Bibical claim that the serpent in the Garden is the same adversary that Jesus speaks of? Why can't they be different unique beings? This doesn't do anything to the message of salvation. 


    Thats small stuff though. I do have a big issue with the idea that this being is what caused God to create the universe. You don't have to copy paste the whole verses. I can look them up. I'm curious where you source this idea from?? Where did the Bible give you this idea? This isn't an attack. This is one believer legitimately wanting to know. If im wrong id like to see where and I don't just take any persons word. I dont care if you're the pope (not catholic but tried to think of someone "credentialed" so to speak. If you can't make a Biblically based argument, then I think your case falls apart immediately at that point. Although a lot of things are resolved at the point of the Bible isn't clear so I can't be specific. That's fine too. But this claim is quite strong and quite specific. 

  • @JesusistheonlyGod777
    that should be corrected to " Killed satan." that's where "fairy" dust comes from, the top leading cause of homosexuality.

    I would word that as follows: "Introduced bigotry and vilification of minority groups as a means for his followers to disguise their utter ignorance and arrogance."
    Now, that sounds a lot more accurate and true to the point, don't you think?
  • @RickeyD
    Mary was not "raped" but was impregnated by the power of the Holy Spirit

    Oh, so Mary, being a virgin married woman, when ordered by a loud echoing voice from the clouds to get down off her donkey willingly jumped to the ground, spread her legs and yelled out. "Oh yeah God, give it to me, oh do me good and hard, oh yessss".

    I tell you what. Why not walk down to the next meeting of your local Equal Rights Lobby Group, stand up, and say that?
  • RickeyDRickeyD 685 Pts
    edited October 15
    @JustinC ; There is only one Satan. Satan is a powerful being...don't discount his abilities.

    The Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Ezekiel tells you that Satan was in Eden.

    Ezekiel 28,

    11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

    “You were the seal of perfection,
    Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
    13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
    Every precious stone was your covering:
    The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
    Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
    Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
    The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
    Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

    14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
    I established you;
    You were on the holy mountain of God;
    You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
    15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
    Till iniquity was found in you.

    16 “By the abundance of your trading
    You became filled with violence within,
    And you sinned;
    Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
    Out of the mountain of God;
    And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
    From the midst of the fiery stones.

    17 “Your heart was [b]lifted up because of your beauty;
    You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
    I cast you to the ground,
    I laid you before kings,
    That they might gaze at you.


    Concerning our Creation and Causation, from Genesis 3 forward, the Holy Spirit tells you that God is using Time and this Universe to deal with an Adversary that introduced sin into the Kingdom and that sin and the sin-bearer was extricated and matter, Time, this Universe, our genome, was created for cause with rapidity (Genesis 1, "day" = "yom" = literal 24-hr. day)... and a declaration of war was declared in Genesis 3:15 and the tactic that God the Father would use to defeat this Adversary who deceived in Eden was pictured in Genesis 3:21 and the horrors of sin and debauchery were first manifest in the generation of Noah (Genesis 6:5) and the faithful angels in the Kingdom look-on with horror and amazement at the works of their former boss, Lucifer/Satan, and the angels that followed Satan in that rebellion in the Kingdom. God the Father is demonstrating to the faithful angelic creation why sin cannot be permitted to exist in the Kingdom (Revelation 21:27) and God is demonstrating His faithfulness and love toward His angelic creation by giving Himself as a sacrifice to defeat the works of the devil (1 John 3:8b) and all of the horror and suffering for the previous 6000-years is demonstrative of sin and God's demonstration to His faithful angelic creation what would have transpired has their former boss not been extricated from the Kingdom (Isaiah 14; Luke 10:18). Free will continues to be paramount in the Kingdom and will be for eternity and God is setting a bulwark against future rebellion by demonstrating the ramifications for disobedience and we're an integral part of that demonstration.

    If you study, you'll see that God the Father commissioned the Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:35), to create Time, the Heavens and the Earth and our Genome (Hebrews 11:3; John 1: Colossians 1) and the Son was also commissioned to enter Time through the womb of a virgin woman and bypass the sin-nature transferred by the seed of the man, Adam (Genesis 3:15; Matthew 1:26; Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22). The virgin birth permitted Jesus, in His humanity, to perfectly fulfill the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and become our Sacrifice (2 Corinthians 5:21; John 3:16-18). Jesus tells you that he watched as Satan fell from Heaven (Luke 10:18). The Apostle Paul through the Spirit tells you that the Gospel was ordained "before the beginning of Time" (2 Timothy 1:9-10). John, the dearly beloved of Jesus, through the Spirit also tells you that the primary reason Jesus entered Time was "to destroy the works of the devil" (1 John 3:8b). The Millennial Kingdom will further demonstrate the wickedness of Satan to the faithful angelic creation as Satan and the fallen angels will be bound for 1000-years (Revelation 20) and complete peace will reign upon the Earth for that Millennium but the moment Satan is released, he will once again deceive the Nations and war against God. Finally, all of the faithful angelic creation will concur with the Father that Satan and their former brethren do indeed deserve punishment in Hell, forever (Revelation 20:10). Then comes the Judgment of the Condemned (Revelation 20:11-15) and then the New Heavens the New Earth the New Jerusalem and life with God with foreknowledge of sin and its horrors as free will reigns paramount. 

    I could go on and on and on...but if you study with the Spirit (1 John 2:27; John 16:13), He explains the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning our origin and our destiny and purpose in this life...we are here as either emissaries and warriors for our Lord or we're servants of His nemesis, Satan (Joshua 24:14-15).







  • @Swolliw ; Why are you so angry at God for your sin?

    Luke 1, Does Mary sound like a "rape victim?"

    26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin [r]engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the [s]descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was [t]Mary. 28 And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, [u]favored one! The Lord [v]is with you.” 29 But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30 The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34 Mary said to the angel, “How [w]can this be, since I [x]am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the [y]holy Child shall be called the Son of God. 36 And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and [z]she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. 37 For [aa]nothing will be impossible with God.” 38 And Mary said, “Behold, the [ab]bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.

    Mary Visits Elizabeth

    39 Now [ac]at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 And [ad]how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? 44 For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. 45 And blessed is she who [ae]believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her [af]by the Lord.”

    The Magnificat

    46 And Mary said:

    “My soul [ag]exalts the Lord,
    47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
    48 “For He has had regard for the humble state of His [ah]bondslave;
    For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed.
    49 “For the Mighty One has done great things for me;
    And holy is His name.
    50 “And His mercy is [ai]upon generation after generation
    Toward those who fear Him.
    51 “He has done [aj]mighty deeds with His arm;
    He has scattered those who were proud in the [ak]thoughts of their heart.
    52 “He has brought down rulers from their thrones,
    And has exalted those who were humble.
    53 “He has filled the hungry with good things;
    And sent away the rich empty-handed.
    54 “He has given help to Israel His servant,
    [al]In remembrance of His mercy,
    55 As He spoke to our fathers,
    To Abraham and his [am]descendants forever.”

    56 And Mary stayed with her about three months, and then returned to her home.


  • edited October 15
    @JustinC

    I didn't mean it literally.
  • RickeyD said:
    @JustinC ;

    Quote
    "There is only one Satan. Satan is a powerful being...don't discount his abilities.
    -- I said nothing of abilities. I could also care less, Yahweh is greater!

    I don't believe the Hebrew suggests at all there is only one. Especially since it's a title not name. "The satan".

    The Holy Spirit speaking through the prophet Ezekiel tells you that Satan was in Eden."
    -- yes but where's the proof it's the same adversary from Job or the one tempting Jesus? What about the other divine beings in the council? You're broad use of Ezekiel here is broad in language. One example, verse 15. Isn't every created being perfect in their ways until iniquity is found in them? No one stays perfect. The "sons of god" and other divine beings can't be perfect. God is perfect. God has no equal. 



    Ezekiel 28, 

    11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

    “You were the seal of perfection,
    Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
    13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
    Every precious stone was your covering:
    The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
    Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
    Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
    The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
    Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

    14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
    I established you;
    You were on the holy mountain of God;
    You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
    15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
    Till iniquity was found in you.

    16 “By the abundance of your trading
    You became filled with violence within,
    And you sinned;
    Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
    Out of the mountain of God;
    And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
    From the midst of the fiery stones.

    17 “Your heart was [b]lifted up because of your beauty;
    You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
    I cast you to the ground,
    I laid you before kings,
    That they might gaze at you.


    Quote

    "Concerning our Creation and Causation, from Genesis 3 forward, the Holy Spirit tells you that God is using Time and this Universe to deal with an Adversary that introduced sin into the Kingdom "

    -- This is not correct. First God existed. It seems likely He created his divine council prior to humans. But we are never told when the Satan is created, whoever the Satan is.


    Furthermore God created humans because He wanted a relationship with us. Not because He needed to. Even more importantly, God doesn't need anything from that relationship. He is everything. You can't add to God. So, if God created the universe and the earth and Adam and Eve and said it was very good. Said it's just how I wanted it. Then how could you possibly then say the universe was created as a response to what an elohim did? 


    Quote

    "and that sin and the sin-bearer was extricated and matter, Time, this Universe, our genome, was created for cause with rapidity (Genesis 1, "day" = "yom" = literal 24-hr. day)... and a declaration of war was declared in Genesis 3:15 and the tactic that God the Father would use to defeat this Adversary who deceived in Eden was pictured in Genesis 3:21"

    -- ill get to another point about sin. But first something else. You're talking like the whole point is to defeat the Adversary. The point is to bring creation back to it's original design. By saving us! The satan is an afterthought in that regard. God loves the Satan, but its defeat is a foregone conclusion. A certainty. 

    Actually I probably didn't even need to go into all of that. Why wouldn't God just have stopped the Satan then. Thered be no need for the universe to do it. God could just "snap his fingers" and poof. No more created being who's doing it wrong. Oh wait, we're all doing it wrong. Oh yeah and the other elohim who don't follow God can decieve us too. 

    Quote

    "and the horrors of sin and debauchery were first manifest in the generation of Noah (Genesis 6:5) and the faithful angels in the Kingdom look-on with horror and amazement at the works of their former boss, Lucifer/Satan, and the angels that followed Satan in that rebellion in the Kingdom. "

    --The satan is not the "boss of angels". The satan and other angels you're describing are better termed the created "sons of god", the elohim. Theres a hierarchy to the divine beings. What's more the origin of sin falls on Adam and Eve, not the Satan. 


    Quote

    "God the Father is demonstrating to the faithful angelic creation"

    It's not God (boss of angels) and angels and then Satan (boss of demons), demons

    The Divine Council - described as gods in ancient times. Real beings who live in the spiritual realm and have different purposes. Some discuss what to do on Earth (think Job). Sometimes they deliver messages and are denoted as carrying out the work of a messenger (Angel). 

    They are never described with wings. Even the angels names simply point to God. Gabriel - "God is my power".

    Cherubim - Described as hybrid creatures. A collage of different animals. Not people with wings. For example, the guardians of the Garden. 

    So, there were multiple rebellions in Heaven. The snake fell no later than right before the the fall of man. However more of the divine council, these elohim, rebelled as well. This in the eyes of the Bible writers makes them lesser spiritual beings. The word for this, demon. God didn't create them evil. They chose to define good and evil themselves the same way we all do. 

    They then interact on Earth with people. Giving them hidden knowledge and interacting in a real way. It seems likely some of the rituals performed and worship to false gods was directed at these elohim. Real things happened. For example, Pharoahs "magicians" who duplicate some of the stuff God does through Moses. To a point. This is a very different understanding and model then the God vs devil model with angels and demons being like soldiers. Theres nothing which even suggests the spiritual beings in rebellion have a hierarchy or if they all simply do their own thing.  


    Quote

    "why sin cannot be permitted to exist in the Kingdom (Revelation 21:27) and God is demonstrating His faithfulness and love toward His angelic creation by giving Himself as a sacrifice to defeat the works of the devil (1 John 3:8b) "

    -- No, the works of man. The fault lies on us. The tempter can still be held accountable, but we are all still held accountable for each of our actions. Even as Christians.  We don't get judged and get a free pass. Salvation guarantees the ticket into God's presence but after judgement. 



    Quote

    "and all of the horror and suffering for the previous 6000-years is demonstrative of sin and God's demonstration to His faithful angelic creation what would have transpired has their former boss not been extricated from the Kingdom (Isaiah 14; Luke 10:18). "

    -- We don't sin because Satan tempts us. We sin because we have a sinful nature. A small excerpt but Paul is very clear. 

    Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—  To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

    Romans 5:12‭-14 ESV 



    Quote

    "Free will continues to be paramount in the Kingdom and will be for eternity and God is setting a bulwark against future rebellion by demonstrating the ramifications for disobedience and we're an integral part of that demonstration. "

    -- If there are free creatures we're always free to rebel. Do you assume we'll be perfect in heaven?


    Quote

    "If you study, you'll see that God the Father commissioned the Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:35),"

    - The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

    John 3:35‭-‬36 NIV

    This speaks of singular path of Christ to God's presence for eternity. The first statement is a confirmation of authority not a commission.


    Quote 

    "to create Time, the Heavens and the Earth and our Genome (Hebrews 11:3; John 1: Colossians 1)"

    The Father didn't commission Christ to create these. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit decided to create the universe. For relationship with us. But yes He absolutely all things. 



    Quote

    "and the Son was also commissioned to enter Time through the womb of a virgin woman and bypass the sin-nature transferred by the seed of the man, Adam (Genesis 3:15; Matthew 1:26; Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22). "

    -- Jesus was fully man. He was tempted. Which means there was some sinful desire to play on. If Jesus couldn't have sinned, how would it be a model of what we couldn't do if Jesus didn't have the ability to sin? 



    Quote

    "I could go on and on and on...but if you study with the Spirit (1 John 2:27; John 16:13), He explains the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning our origin and our destiny and purpose in this life...we are here as either emissaries and warriors for our Lord or we're servants of His nemesis, Satan (Joshua 24:14-15). "

    --Satan is simply not God's nemesis. The satan holds NO power over God and none over humanity God doesn't allow. We weren't created to fight something God doesn't need to fight. God designed something perfect, we messed it up, God is bringing us back to that. The story is about humans having dominion over the earth in relationship with God. That's why the earth is here. 


    Some short videos which could help:



    A longer one:




    Disclaimer. I believe every Bible teacher who dives in deeply and is interpreting certain things will always have flaws. There's no teacher or pastor or denomination which has every answer. How could they? I simply offer a starting place for these views. Beyond that pray and read scripture. Inquire if you may be in error and ask for clarity. If you think you've got everything squared away perfectly  that might be your indicator you need to go back to the text. Unless of course it's something like Jesus is God haha. Go in peace brother. 




  • @JustinC

    I didn't mean it literally.
    Hard to tell sometimes. Apologies. 
  • DeeDee 2800 Pts
    @JustinC

    It’s absolutely hilarious to watch two so called “Christians” use bible verses against each other to contradict each other and the Bible........You think an all powerful god would have the intelligence to make sure his words were accurately recorded and perfectly understood , the only verses imbeciles like you agree on are the ones that paint the petty tyrant in a good light 
  • @RickeyD
    Luke 1, Does Mary sound like a "rape victim?"

    Yes, she does. which is why I included the line in my thread.
    According to Luke, Mary questioned repeatedly what the heck was going and only submitted after being bullied by the angel.
    She was raped.
    JustinC
  • @JustinC ; You err in knowledge of Truth because you don't trust the Spirit, you trust in man; therefore, you argue from the World's perspective as opposed to the Spirit's truth. The Holy Spirit has placed before you the words of Truth, both the written and the Living; therefore, unless you pursue these with full confidence in the Spirit you will not arrive at His Truth but will continue your compromise with the World and suffer loss.


    JustinC
  • @Swolliw ; Mary question and considered herself blessed beyond measure to be the mother of our Messiah...you approach the subject of Mary's conception from the demonic as you are a servant of Satan (John 8:44)...there is no surprise here at all as your worldview is skewed and biased by evil.


  • @RickeyD
    Mary question and considered herself blessed beyond measure to be the mother of our Messiah

    She was sweet-talked and bullied into it by threats. It was very clear in Luke that she resisted the advances of the angel and only agreed to be impregnated after being threatened with the wrath of God. By today's standards, when a woman says no, she means no.
    Mary was raped.
  • @Swolliw ; God, in His omniscience, knew Mary's heart and ordained her to be the mother of the Son of God, Jesus Christ pertaining to Messiah's humanity. You believe whatever your father tells you to believe, he is your god and you will suffer a similar fate as he in Hell. God knew Mary and her heart, He knows you and your heart as well.


  • RickeyD said:
    @Swolliw ; God, in His omniscience, knew Mary's heart and ordained her to be the mother of the Son of God, Jesus Christ pertaining to Messiah's humanity. You believe whatever your father tells you to believe, he is your god and you will suffer a similar fate as he in Hell. God knew Mary and her heart, He knows you and your heart as well.


    But what if he repents? Why not mention that?
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