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Should student loans be forgiven?

Debate Information

Chuck Shumer recently stated that Joe Biden should sign an executive order that forgives $50,000 in student loan debt.  This is not only unfair to American taxpayer but is a bad idea.

If you are trying to help people in lower income brackets this is not the way to do it. The brookings institute states in regards to student loan forgiveness: "the top 20 percent of households receive about 27 percent of all annual savings, and the top 40 percent about 66 percent. The bottom 20 percent of borrowers by income get only 4 percent of the savings"

Forbes claims: "The top fifth of households holds $3 in student loans for every $1 held by the bottom fifth, according to an analysis by the People’s Policy Project. In fact, that probably understates how regressive student loan forgiveness might be, because many student borrowers in lower income quintiles are young and will probably earn more later in their careers.Students from rich families tend to borrow more than students from poor families, since wealthy students disproportionately choose expensive private colleges where even rich families must resort to borrowing."

Out of 255 million adult Americans, just 45 million have federal student debt. If economic relief is in order, it’s highly inequitable to distribute tens of thousands of dollars to the 45 million while the other 210 million get nothing.
We are taking money out of the average american and working class citizen and most will benefit the wealthy.

In practice will make colleges more unaffordable.  College student loans are gauranteed by the government.  This means the colleges face very little risk is raising prices, as they automatically ge there money whether the student can pay it back or not.  Paying off student loans will only incentivize colleges to increase their tuition as well as incentivizing individuals to go to colleges that are unaffordable to them or their degree in hopes that they will receive the same treatment.

Finally it is just unfair. Making individuals who didnt go to college, those who went to cheaper community colleges, or those who worked to pay off their debt now have to pay for those who made poor decisions.  When I buy a Lamborghini that i cant afford, i dont get to expect the taxpayer to pay it off and allow me to reap the rewards.
Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenWe_are_accountable
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  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    Cancelling student debt would be a huge boon to the economy since now all the students who can't pay their debt will actually be able to reinvest their earnings into growing the economy, rather than working as debt slaves. The companies that own these student loans have essentially 0 risk on issuing those loans for this reason. If you want to talk about inequity, their it is. These companies benefit off the backs of the people who do get college education, and this has the effect of convincing people to not go into higher education. It's making the US less competitive by forcing people into community colleges instead of high-tech industry.

    We need more people with higher education and fewer working class people who went to community colleges if we want to reverse the trend towards scientific illiteracy. This in turn will benefit you even if you didn't go to college by raising your standard of living and providing long-term rewards through the investment into technology and industry. Failing to do so will lead to the failure of our economy due to it being outcompeted by foreign companies which do invest into STEM fields.

    Finally, the simple fact that our institutions have been continuing the government to back student debt in the first place is the problem that drove college prices up to begin with. The department of education could have, at any time stopped this practice which would have fixed the problem years ago. You are railing against a solution to a problem that was caused by poor economic decision made decades ago during the Clinton administration, which quite frankly no attempt has been made to fix.

    What in effect is accomplished by failing to do anything is promoting inequity by claiming that the solution is inequitable. However, it makes sense that if there is inequity in society that one solution would be to counter than inequity directly.
    PlaffelvohfenDeeWe_are_accountable
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • all4acttall4actt 146 Pts   -  
    Paying off student loans for people is the least of our worries right now.  That being said.

    What would be more reasonable would be to suspend the interest rates and put a temporary hold on repayment penalties until people can recorver from current circumstances.

    The least Biden can do is reduce the interest rate by the 2.5 % that Obama's administration added to help pay fot Obama care.
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenPolaris95
  • What I have come to not like is that student loans are given as credit which means there is no liability to cover all debt in the event educational institutions are ever convicted of a crime. Credit is not a legal tender for all debt exposing students to a legal debt to society. As they have not been given united state constitutional protection.
  • DeeDee 3002 Pts   -   edited November 20
     $50,000 in student loan debt

    Are you serious a student can owe this much? Americans tell me Europe is a Hell Hole and yet I got virtually free education and healthcare and don’t live in a gun culture yet I’m the one living in a Hell hole .....tell me what I’m missing?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • .tell me what I’m missing?
    Your involvement in several unprosecuted crimes as a potential cost of free education.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 3002 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    I haven’t a clue what that babble means 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @Dee
    I haven’t a clue what that babble means.
    I know and it's not a test of the public broadcast system either. 
    By the way, tell Plaffvohfen the relevance is a many student loans may not be collectible as debt.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 580 Pts   -   edited November 20
    @Happy_Killbot
    So you agree that government intervention is what caused college tuition problem in the first place, but your solution is more similar government intervention?

    "These companies benefit off the backs of the people who do get college education, and this has the effect of convincing people to not go into higher education."

    So you have a problem with loans? 

    I dont really care about inequity when it is due to your own choices.  I do care when the government is stealing it and only giving it back to certain individuals.

    Often companies will support graduate degrees.  But everything is a cost/benefit.  If a company thinks they will benefit more hiring those with graduate degrees they will invest in it.  Likewise the same occurs for individuals.

    If your argument is it allows more people to put money into the economy, why not pay for my Lamborghini...its stimulating the economy is it not?
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers ;
    So you agree that government intervention is what caused college tuition problem in the first place, but your solution is more similar government intervention?
    I wouldn't say it like that, but yes. The government f*** up, now the government has to fix it.
    So you have a problem with loans? 
    When those loans are predatory and have a significant negative effect on the US, then yes. When the purpose of the loans iis effectively theft, then they don't accomplish anything useful.
    I dont really care about inequity when it is due to your own choices.  I do care when the government is stealing it and only giving it back to certain individuals.
    You understand that this is exactly what government backed loans accomplish in the first place right?

    When the government issues loans like this, they are backed by treasury securities which are funded by bank notes created by the federal reserve, colloquially known as money. But where does the value of this money come from? The answer is simple: no where. It's literally imagined into existence. Of course, doing this means that the value of all money goes down, because there is now more of it. This is known as inflation. From another perspective, you might say that the delta value which the loans pays for (education) came from the loss of value people have in savings.

    In other words, when the government backs education loans, the credit which is created by transferring debt to the consumer (person receiving the loan) has value which is derived by reducing the value of all money in the system via inflation. The organization which issued the loan to the consumer gets money through the generation of interest.
    If your argument is it allows more people to put money into the economy, why not pay for my Lamborghini...its stimulating the economy is it not?
    Absolutely not. The Lamborghini doesn't produce any new value, even if it becomes a classic which sells for more than it was worth. Consumerism doesn't exactly grow the economy, even though it does allow more goods and services to be moved. People can't buy luxury goods if they don't have the money to do so in the first place, so simply producing more cars isn't going to grow the economy unless you can convince people to buy them. The production and sale of such goods will reach it's supply/demand point and will not exceed it.

    Our economy very much relies on high-tech industry, and fancy cars just aren't that. Turns out, when you invest in actual new technologies you can grow the economy by making everything cheaper, thus increasing the demand, or by creating entirely new sectors and industries which open up new markets. In order to do that, we need a highly educated, high-tech, technical populace to actually develop these technologies and industries.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • DeeDee 3002 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    I’m sure @Plaffelvohfen is equally baffled at what you’re trying to say as I am , the day you state something intelligible I think should be greeted as a new wonder of the world 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2025 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    I suspect he's on the autistic spectrum or caught fire as a toddler and his parents had to put it out with a shovel... He uses his own dictionary full of nonexistent words, refers to nonexistent concepts as if they were long established ones, and apparently thinks the US constitution governs the universe... So yeah, I stopped trying....
    Dee
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @MichaelElpers

    Well said, but your common sense words will fall on deaf ears from all the closet socialists on this site. People on the Left do not deal in common sense, and they ignore all the damage created when Government chooses to bail out groups making irresponsible decisions.

    It seems that the Democrats party has sold their souls for political reward. For decades they have been rewarding failure, laziness, irresponsibility. For decades they have been buying votes with tax payer dollars, and we are reaping the results of no fault moral values, no fault debt spending, no fault child abandonment, no fault abortion, etc.

    Democrats refuse to hold anyone accountable except for hard working tax payers. We are their piggy bank, and the fact that Biden won this election shows us just how many Government dependents Leftwing politics has created. This has been and will be their goal. BUYING VOTES... TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!

    There is no more damaging message a Government can send, then to tell people they are not responsible for their freely chosen debt. It not only encourages the irresponsible to do more of the same, but it teaches those who worked hard and paid off their debt, to follow suit.

    Democrats are using this Covod disease to put their Socialist agendas on the fast tract.
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenDee
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable ;

    People on the alt-right only deal in "common sense" because they can't be bothered to think.

    That's why they spend so much time stroking their ignorance.

    I wouldn't expect someone as simple as you to understand literally anything. Ever. Uneducated people like you shouldn't be allowed to vote.
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • I’m sure @Plaffelvohfen ;is equally baffled at what you’re trying to say as I am , the day you state something intelligible I think should be greeted as a new wonder of the world @Dee
    Of that, I'm sure as well. Why do we believe all debt acquired by credit is collectible some portions of debt become uncollectable when connected to crimes. What are the odds of getting collaboration as testimony from a student who loses debt for simply telling the truth? Just how much student debt becomes uncollectible and who will be held to blame?
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 580 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot. I dont know why you think i agree with government backed loans...i dont.
    The purpose of any loan is to make money, otherwise there wouldnt be loans.  You borrow money to help pay for something you need and they earn some extra for giving you that money and taking on some risk.  Its also something you agreed to, so not theft.

    It also turns out that people who go in STEM fields can generally pay their student debt off faster than any other major and will earn the most in comparison to what they borrowed. That seems like an incentive to me.  Paying off student loans for those getting degrees at colleges that cost 40,000 a year in majors that have low job prospects just takes away that incentive.

    If you think consumerism doesnt generate economic growth, you effectively just disagreed how liberals view the economy.  Most arguments from the democratic platform argue that if you give the poor more money they will they are forced to invest it in the economy stimulating growth.

  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 580 Pts   -   edited November 21
    @Dee. Yeah, unfortunately "the college experience" has been sold as a necessity and the bigger college you go to the better.

    They have somehow convinced people that attending a $40000/year university is worth it no matter your scholarships or the major your going into.  Its a scam that young adults are unfortunately falling for.

    We have affordable colleges, but for some those colleges arent cool enough.
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 960 Pts   -  
    The whole point of student loans is that you only pay them off once you can afford to do so. Student loans are automatically forgiven if you can't pay them - that is the entire point.
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 580 Pts   -  
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 Thats entirely crap. You shouldnt do things you cant afford.

    Because theyre government backed and automatically forgiven is one of the main reasons colleges are so expensive.
  • @MichaelElpers

    The purpose of any loan is to make money, otherwise there wouldnt be loans

    The basic point of credit is the value of a dollar can be taken away if the purchase is found to be illegal and no payment is then necessary. Payments then get postponed for years or decades as the litigation over the debt goes on through a series of rulings in court. It's part of the legal issues behind the American Civil War as a federal note was worked on by George Washington and others to act as a receipt instead of gold shortly after American independ@MichaelElpers

    A loan is a way to register credit and not a dollar inside the numerical value of Federal Reserve Note.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 ;
    Student loans are automatically forgiven if you can't pay them - that is the entire point.
    This isn't true, student loans are not like other loans, you can only be forgiven in very specific situations like complete disability, death, or the school you went to mismanaged your payment or couldn't complete your tuition due to closing. In practice, almost no one has their student loans forgiven and it isn't just because you can't repay them.
    xlJ_dolphin_473
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers ;
    The purpose of any loan is to make money, otherwise there wouldnt be loans.  You borrow money to help pay for something you need and they earn some extra for giving you that money and taking on some risk.  Its also something you agreed to, so not theft.
    There is a lot of nuance that you are missing here though, sometimes loans are not held by the same entity making the original deal, the debt itself can be bought and sold to other entities. Also, keep in mind that with a regular loan there is no government backing, so if the investment fails in some way then the lender loses their stake. With government backed loans, there is an incentive for the lender to make as many people get education. This was the original plan, but it failed because people who are woefully unqualified ended up getting useless degrees, and tuition prices skyrocketed as a result.

    The theft comes from the fact that the loan produces credit which has value derived from inflating costs, in other words you are paying in part for a deal between the lender and the borrower from your savings, even if you are not part of that deal, or even aware that it happened.
    It also turns out that people who go in STEM fields can generally pay their student debt off faster than any other major and will earn the most in comparison to what they borrowed. That seems like an incentive to me.  Paying off student loans for those getting degrees at colleges that cost 40,000 a year in majors that have low job prospects just takes away that incentive.
    Yes, I agree with this but many people aren't going into STEM fields when there are other fields which pay even more and require less education. This system is broken up and down. Doing nothing to fix it definitely will not work.
    If you think consumerism doesnt generate economic growth, you effectively just disagreed how liberals view the economy.  Most arguments from the democratic platform argue that if you give the poor more money they will they are forced to invest it in the economy stimulating growth.
    That's a gross oversimplification of what modern democratic-socialists want. It isn't about giving them money to invest, it's about giving them money so that they can actually prosper long enough to make investments years down the road. It's the same reason that if you see someone who is injured on the street you don't just walk by them and do nothing thinking that they should take care of themselves (unless you are completely heartless) People are altruistic because being so means that some day the person they helped can help someone else, and this raises everyone's survival chances and makes a generally pleasant society.

    That being said, most of those people we would call liberals (more accurately, neo-liberals) are still capitalists at the end of the day. They don't want the capitalist system to be replaced or changed much if at all, and in general still adhere to free-market principals, with a fair amount of moderation to prevent atrocities.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 960 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    You are very much mistaken. You only have to start repaying your student loans once you are earning over a certain amount. In this way, you only have to pay off your student loan debt if you are earning enough to do so. 
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @xlJ_dolphin_473 ;
    That isn't all student loans, only the income driven payment plans, which not everyone has applied for. Also, that doesn't mean that you don't have to pay back your loan, you are still required to pay in full, the only caveat is that the amount you are required to pay is based on your income.

    If you default on your loan, you are not eligible for the income-driven repayment plan.

    https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/repayment/plans/income-driven
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Plaffelvohfen

    Can you please give detail to everyone how the legality of payment of debt is not directly related to the payments of debt and if it should be forgiven or not? Sounds a lot like you are just trying to take away a remove bargaining chip of the crime that may have been organized as a fraud on students. You are basically clouding my presumption of innocence insisting we should just have faith that relevance is not there.

    Not that any such fraud is a fact yet.


  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    No loan should ever be forgiven.  If you borrow from someone, unless you are a derelict, you pay them back.
    Debater123
  • Debater123Debater123 127 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers They shouldn't be, if we wanted student loan debt to go away we should stop forcing banks to give out loans to students, and to boycott universities to take away lazy pools and other useless commodities, along with boycotting them to lower wages for professors, which on average is hilariously high.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    No loan should ever be forgiven.  If you borrow from someone, unless you are a derelict, you pay them back.
    What about predatory loans?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Sonofason said:
    No loan should ever be forgiven.  If you borrow from someone, unless you are a derelict, you pay them back.

    Loans that are found illegal are not stopped the method of payment becomes questioned as an alternative form of payment may be found that is not measured in dollars. Remember dollars are a Note of receipt and cover all debt foreign and domestic. A loan that is simply given so it will be forgiven can more easily be seen as just a bribe to then be cleared in a court of crime, or not. We do not buy things with credit and student loans are given to students who do not pay tax. To complicate the issue the loans are regulated and controlled by an institution that is legally in control of slavery simultaneously so selling the loans as if this public institution is business in banking and finance creates legal problems.


  • Dee said:
    @John_C_87

    I’m sure @Plaffelvohfen is equally baffled at what you’re trying to say as I am , the day you state something intelligible I think should be greeted as a new wonder of the world 

    Education institutions many on an international level may be coaching witnesses who are directed to the participation of a crime. The best example historically is a woman President, though the reason to believe a female cannot become President of the united state of America is sexism. Without argument, does not nor did ever mean there were no other legal reasons to object and alter the course of those crimes that had not been found to be over or about sexism. In Court truth and its presentation by spoken word is something to object to, even when everyone else who receives the order to remember a specific event does not see the crime or harm from their vantage point.

    Perjury and fraud are crimes or are they not crimes? Are those crimes older than the laws of sexism? What Plaffevohfen was so kind to mention though not by any title is Presadera. A word created to separate a woman based on fundamental truth and legal precedent. The meaning missing from any dictionaries Plaffevohfen or myself have read. Presadera -  a woman who sits for the future of all women after having been placed, legal within a united state before constitutional principle.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    No loan should ever be forgiven.  If you borrow from someone, unless you are a derelict, you pay them back.
    What about predatory loans?
    I would not call those loans.  I'd call that fraud.
    Happy_Killbot
  • @Sonofason
    Predatory loans are not the only kind of alone which is a fraud.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    John_C_87 said:
    @Sonofason
    Predatory loans are not the only kind of alone which is a fraud.
    The question of the OP was, "should student loans be forgiven?   The answer is no.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    I would not call those loans.  I'd call that fraud.
    That's a no true Scotsman fallacy.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    Except for death or extreme illness, no debt should be forgiven.
  • @Sonofason

    The problem is if the loans are part of a crime the loan is not collectible nonpayment has nothing to do with it forgivenss.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    John_C_87 said:
    @Sonofason

    The problem is if the loans are part of a crime the loan is not collectible nonpayment has nothing to do with it forgivenss.
    Please insert appropriate punctuation, and delete unnecessary pronouns, and make a sentence understandable.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    Except for death or extreme illness, no debt should be forgiven.
    What if the party issuing the loan makes some critical mistake? Say they lend more than they have, exceeding the maximum fractional limit as determined by the federal reserve?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    Except for death or extreme illness, no debt should be forgiven.
    What if the party issuing the loan makes some critical mistake? Say they lend more than they have, exceeding the maximum fractional limit as determined by the federal reserve?
    I don't care about the creditor.  The debtor should pay back the loan.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    I don't care about the creditor.  The debtor should pay back the loan.
    Cool! Hey, I just gave you a loan of $1,000,000 dollars with a 7% APR interest rate. Don't forget to pay me back.  :D 
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    I don't care about the creditor.  The debtor should pay back the loan.
    Cool! Hey, I just gave you a loan of $1,000,000 dollars with a 7% APR interest rate. Don't forget to pay me back.  :D 
    I'll pay it back once I receive it.  Thanks.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    I'll pay it back once I receive it.  Thanks.
    Okay, you just did. Check your secret bank account you hide from your wife.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    I'll pay it back once I receive it.  Thanks.
    Okay, you just did. Check your secret bank account you hide from your wife.
    Good people like myself, wouldn't even conceive of such an idea.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    Good people like myself, wouldn't even conceive of such an idea.
    Oh? You don't know about the account either? Well, that sounds like a personal problem. Whatever, don't forget you owe me.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Sonofason said:
    John_C_87 said:
    @Sonofason

    The problem is if the loans are part of a crime the loan is not collectible nonpayment has nothing to do with it forgivenss.
    Please insert appropriate punctuation, and delete unnecessary pronouns, and make a sentence understandable.
    If you do not understand, why to ask for corrections? Grammar and punctuation make writing visually appealing.

    The conditions of the loan can be incriminating to a student as well as any person and are not always collectible, refusal of payment is not forgiveness, nonpayment is not always a default of debt, payment schedules may never have been made on specific legal terms a condition of the finance agreement, which can account for the use of credit in the first place in education.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    Good people like myself, wouldn't even conceive of such an idea.
    Oh? You don't know about the account either? Well, that sounds like a personal problem. Whatever, don't forget you owe me.
    I understand this is how democrats think.  But you'll have to talk to my accountant about that.  No funds received.  Sorry.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    John_C_87 said:
    Sonofason said:
    John_C_87 said:
    @Sonofason

    The problem is if the loans are part of a crime the loan is not collectible nonpayment has nothing to do with it forgivenss.
    Please insert appropriate punctuation, and delete unnecessary pronouns, and make a sentence understandable.
    If you do not understand, why to ask for corrections? Grammar and punctuation make writing visually appealing.

    The conditions of the loan can be incriminating to a student as well as any person and are not always collectible, refusal of payment is not forgiveness, nonpayment is not always a default of debt, payment schedules may never have been made on specific legal terms a condition of the finance agreement, which can account for the use of credit in the first place in education.
    Good people pay their debts.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3344 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    I understand this is how democrats think.
    Good thing I'm not (nor have I ever) been a democrat  ;)
      But you'll have to talk to my accountant about that.  No funds received.  Sorry.
    Guess you will have to retract your earlier statements then.

    You religious nuts are all the same, you state your beliefs and hold them high like they are some kind of virtue, but when push comes to shove, you don't believe in your own BS.

    Clearly, there are times when you would accept loan forgiveness other than death or extreme illness. Maybe you are just to old.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;
    I understand this is how democrats think.
    Good thing I'm not (nor have I ever) been a democrat  ;)
      But you'll have to talk to my accountant about that.  No funds received.  Sorry.
    Guess you will have to retract your earlier statements then.

    You religious nuts are all the same, you state your beliefs and hold them high like they are some kind of virtue, but when push comes to shove, you don't believe in your own BS.

    Clearly, there are times when you would accept loan forgiveness other than death or extreme illness. Maybe you are just to old.
    Good people pay their debts.
  • Good people pay their debts.
    Possession being 9/10th the law how does that fit into the 10%?
  • SonofasonSonofason 219 Pts   -  
    John_C_87 said:
    Good people pay their debts.
    Possession being 9/10th the law how does that fit into the 10%?
    Concepts such as possession being 9/10ths of the law does not make for a good person.
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