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Should the US government make the covid-19 vaccination mandatory?

Debate Information

It is not mandatory as of right now, and there are no government surveillance programs to track those who have or have not been vaccinated, but should there be?  
  1. Live Poll

    Mandatory covid vaxx?

    14 votes
    1. Yes. All people who are healthy enough to have one should.
      42.86%
    2. No. It is an intrusion of our privacy and bodily autonomy.
      57.14%
«13



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Arguments



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    Arguments


  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -  
    Be ready to cite peer reviewed studies that demonstrates the covid-19 vaccination is unsafe, or the government is tracking people who haven't received the vaccination, or there is a mind control serum in it, or computer chips, or bar codes, or you spoke to jesus on your CB radio last week and he said it's against gods will, if you're going to make those kinds of claims
    Starlord616
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    It's for public health and safety, so refusing to enforce vaccines is sort of like letting civilians wander into a war zone. It would be irresponsible not to do that, especially for the people who think that they are "inserting a mind control chip" or whatever the obvious is now.
    Debater123We_are_accountableTreeMan
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot

    What if the American public can reach the herd immunity threshold without the need for any vaccination enforcement? What would have been the purpose for an overarching government mandate if most of the public received the vaccine of their own accord? 
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @piloteer ;
    What if the American public can reach the herd immunity threshold without the need for any vaccination enforcement? What would have been the purpose for an overarching government mandate if most of the public received the vaccine of their own accord? 
    That would assume that this threshold can be reached based on voluntary vaccinations alone. If we can do that, then it is fine, but there is no guarantee of that.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2163 Pts   -  
    @piloteer

    The idea of "herd immunity" is a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence
    Quote from the linked letter : "Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed." 

    You can also read about The false promise of herd immunity 

    So yeah, a vaccine mandate is the best way to get back to some kind of normalcy and prevent the economy from further damage... 
    DeeZeusAres42
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -   edited December 2020
    God damn! most people said yes! This is why democracy can't work people will believe anything the state tells them! no point in having a constitution!
    PlaffelvohfenVVSvicStarlord616
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;

    Have you ever heard of the parasite stress theory of authoritarianism? 
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3641067/#:~:text=According to a "parasite stress,prevalence of disease-causing pathogens.&text=(One%20additional%20threat%E2%80%94famine%E2%80%94also%20uniquely%20predicted%20authoritarianism.)

    Authoritarianism makes sense when pathogens are prevalent in the environment, specifically because authority is needed to push social conformity. People who want to not get vaccinated because it violates their freedom of bodily autonomy are a threat to the people who accept it or are forced to do so, leaving only them behind allowing institutional power to maintain the social order.
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @piloteer

    The idea of "herd immunity" is a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence
    Quote from the linked letter : "Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed." 

    You can also read about The false promise of herd immunity 

    So yeah, a vaccine mandate is the best way to get back to some kind of normalcy and prevent the economy from further damage... 
    The point of a vaccine on the large scale is to reach herd immunity. If herd immunity is a fallacy, then a mandatory vaccine is completely pointless.
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenStarlord616
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @thegodemperor ;
    The point of a vaccine on the large scale is to reach herd immunity. If herd immunity is a fallacy, then a mandatory vaccine is completely pointless.
    That doesn't follow. You are assuming a conclusion to defeat your assumption. What if a vaccine has a purpose that is not herd immunity, like IDK, reducing or eliminating the virus?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • The government should not make the vaccine mandatory for these reasons: 

    1. It is a way for the government to use its authority to make certain companies rich. any company who wants to make their vaccine available to the public has to go through the government for approval. The government is obviously not using the same standard requirements for the approval process because there is immediate need for such a new vaccine and we don't have time to wait. So they can pretty much decide arbitrarily when it is safe enough or urgent enough to approve a certain company's vaccine but not apply an equal standard, and they'll just say "We had to because people are dying." In a free market, people could wit until a safer vaccine is developed while others get the first one available, so the vaccine profit goes to different companies. When you let the people in power chose winners and losers and then force everyone to buy from the winners, you are just opening the doors to a lot of corruption.

    2. It violates people's freedoms. This isn't very complicated. People have a right to chose what to let into their bodies. Give me liberty or give me death.

    3. It sets the precedent for more tyranny. When you get people used to not having certain rights, they will be more compliant to losing more rights whenever the government next decides they should. Even if you think the specific conditions in this pandemic do justify this one time violation of rights, it isn't just about this one time. People will be outraged but, in time they will give up and everyone will just give up on their outrage at each step of the way as they lose more rights. Mandating a vaccine in America would bring a totalitarian future closer to reality.

    4. We can get back to normal anyways. When the vaccine is available to everyone, you won't need to wear a mask, social distance, or all that. If people chose to not get vaccinated, they are choosing to take that risk of infection. And I will say, if people are dying because they chose not to get vaccinated, you can't blame the government for their death. You can't blame Trump or governors who reopen their states. Freedom comes with risks. Those who are vaccinated shouldn't expect others to get vaccinated form them. 





  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @thegodemperor ;
    1) You understand this is literally how the government gets everything right? This is how privatization works.

    2) Do you have the option to chose that other people die so that you can be free though? If you don't get vaccinated, it could mean that someone else dies.

    3) This is a slippery slope fallacy.

    4) This is just plain wrong. It's not like when the vaccine shows up the pandemic magically disappears, it will be several months before it is repressed enough to start thinking about that, maybe by March to May of next year. To reiterate a previous point, you might not be gambling with your own life, but with the lives of others. Why should anyone have the freedom to accidentally kill others they likely don't even know?
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @thegodemperor ;
    1) You understand this is literally how the government gets everything right? This is how privatization works.

    2) Do you have the option to chose that other people die so that you can be free though? If you don't get vaccinated, it could mean that someone else dies.

    3) This is a slippery slope fallacy.

    4) This is just plain wrong. It's not like when the vaccine shows up the pandemic magically disappears, it will be several months before it is repressed enough to start thinking about that, maybe by March to May of next year. To reiterate a previous point, you might not be gambling with your own life, but with the lives of others. Why should anyone have the freedom to accidentally kill others they likely don't even know?

    1) this isn't just about the government getting stuff. when that happens, I'm pretty sure there are supposed to be equal and consistent standards applied. also, the government buying some of a certain thing is very different from forcing everyone in a country of over 300,000,000 people to buy from one or mostly from on company.

    2) funny, you also said this on the debate "Persuade me that abortion is wrong": "Also, in most parts of America killing people is perfectly legal when your life or property is being violated. Last I checked, your body is your property."
    interesting.

    3) To clarify, I'm saying that a vaccine mandate will make the loss of more rights more likely in the future and make a totalitarian future more likely because it would be easier for it to happen, not that it would directly cause it or make it certain. I do think there are people who are looking for ways to get lots of power over other people control them and may try take advantage of it being easier. Honestly, I think the "slippery slope fallacy" isn't a legitimate fallacy, or maybe I've never heard it explained quite right. A slippery slope argument is not inherently a fallacy. And I would think you would agree considering that, within the last 24 hours, you made the following slippery slope argument about suppressing "xenophobic attitudes" in the debate "Democrats love fanning the flames of racism by making it political. How low can they get?":

    "If you don't suppress these attitudes, then they sill gain power and use it to suppress anyways, but this time based on race. We should not tolerate the intolerant, lest they take control."

    4) I never claimed the pandemic magically disappears. Notice I said, "When the vaccine is available to everyone," by which I mean when everyone has had the chance to get the vaccine if they want it. As to your point about people having "the freedom to accidentally kill others they likely don't even know," you also said this on the debate "Abortion Should Be Illegal":

    "If you consider a fetus to be a person, then the fetus is infringing on the bodily autonomy and therefore physical property of another person. If this is not consensual, then it is criminal activity for the same reason that stealing someone's organs or living in someone else's house is illegal.  If removing someone from your property killed them for whatever reason, you would not have a legal obligation to keep them on your property.

    Your quote I referenced in #2 says it best but this one also has you arguing that bodily autonomy legally overrides any obligation keep others alive. I could say with this logic that if declining to get vaccinated killed someone for whatever reason, you would not have a legal obligation to get vaccinated.

    Aslo, my point was that you wouldn't be gambling with their life as much because if they were worried about it, they would have gotten vaccinated already and if they weren't so worried and didn't get vaccinated, then they're not in a position to tell you to get vaccinated for their safety.


    @MichaelElpers ;
    That's quite the straw-man. The argument being made here is analogous to: "bad guys will get guns if you make them illegal".

    Also, in most parts of America killing people is perfectly legal when your life or property is being violated. Last I checked, your body is your property.

    If you consider a fetus to be not a person, then it has no rights and abortion should be permissible.

    If you consider a fetus to be a person, then the fetus is infringing on the bodily autonomy and therefore physical property of another person. If this is not consensual, then it is criminal activity for the same reason that stealing someone's organs or living in someone else's house is illegal.  If removing someone from your property killed them for whatever reason, you would not have a legal obligation to keep them on your property.

    Abortion only means the fetus dies because we lack the technical and medical capability to allow the fetus to survive outside the womb.

    @xlJ_dolphin_473 ;
    I don't have to, in order to prove my point. But anyway, there are many things. For example:
    • Homelessness
    • The current crisis in education
    • Coronavirus
    • Addiction to legal drugs like OxyContin (we've debated about this before)
    Of course, all these things are important. But, it could be argued that they are not the most important thing, and so the government does not prevent them.
    The government does something about all of these things. Affordable housing, changes to government institutions, lockdowns, and addiction lawsuits & treatment centers.
    Wait... what concentration camps?
    The ones on the US border.
    Could you give an example of what anti-discrimination laws would look like?
    https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/employment-discrimination.aspx#:~:text=Montana-,Fair employment practices law: Employers can't discriminate based on,or mental disability, marital status,
    No way! Everyone has the right to free speech, and if they are xenophobic, meaning afraid of or intolerant towards people different from themselves, then so be it. 
    If you don't suppress these attitudes, then they sill gain power and use it to suppress anyways, but this time based on race. We should not tolerate the intolerant, lest they take control.
    Again, the right to free speech includes a right to free hate. I think that if you murder someone because of the colour of their skin, let's say, that should be severely punished, but punished no more harshly than if you just murdered them because you felt like it.
    hate crimes =/= free speech. If you murder someone because of the color of their skin, that is different from killing someone who happens to have skin of a different color.
    Are you talking about equality of opportunity, or equality of outcome?
    Both.

    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 3338 Pts   -  
    Yes they should and heavy fines for the whiners who disagree we are in this together 
  • Dee said:
    Yes they should and heavy fines for the whiners who disagree we are in this together 
    Fining people for having different opinions, how far are we down the slippery slope now?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 3338 Pts   -   edited December 2020

    @thegodemperor
    Fining people for having different opinions, how far are we down the slippery slope now?

    Right , so Joe has an opinion that his drink driving is just fine so we are now descending down that slippery slope , right?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 491 Pts   -  
    No. This vaccine has been shown to have side effects, I don't want to be subject to this mass government operation, until it has been proven to be effective, without side effects. And some of them can be permanent, we don't want kids having them either. 
    Happy_KillbotDeeDebater123VVSvic
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @George_Horse ;
    No. This vaccine has been shown to have side effects, I don't want to be subject to this mass government operation, until it has been proven to be effective, without side effects. And some of them can be permanent, we don't want kids having them either. 
    The only long term side effect is that you can never get covid-19 ever again. The actual virus however, can cause permanent lung damage. Sounds to me like you are skipping over a dollar because you saw a dime.
    DeeGeorge_HorseVVSvic
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 297 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    It is not mandatory as of right now, and there are no government surveillance programs to track those who have or have not been vaccinated, but should there be?  
    We didn't force anti-vaxers to vaccinate their children before, it should be no different now.
    George_HorseHappy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenthegodemperorVVSvic
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 491 Pts   -  
    @George_Horse ;
    No. This vaccine has been shown to have side effects, I don't want to be subject to this mass government operation, until it has been proven to be effective, without side effects. And some of them can be permanent, we don't want kids having them either. 
    The only long term side effect is that you can never get covid-19 ever again. The actual virus however, can cause permanent lung damage. Sounds to me like you are skipping over a dollar because you saw a dime.
    Yeah you go ahead and get one tell me if you end up like one of these poor schmucks. 

    champion tenza on Twitter 4 Pfizer covid vaccine volunteers have developed  Bells Palsy This is how your face looks like if you have Bells Palsy   httpstcoySX0ofr4mV httpstcoCto0LWI6i8

    They're dishing these out so early, and I haven't seen anything from the FDA  approving them either. 
    Happy_KillbotVVSvic
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1143 Pts   -  
    @George_Horse
    You are late to the party. Here in the UK, they are already being dished out to people at high risk, meaning those over 80, those who live/work in care homes, and healthcare workers.
    DeeGeorge_HorseVVSvic
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @George_Horse ;

    Hey, I can google pictures of people making funny faces too, you should know. How simple do you think I am? If you mean to insult my intelligence, then I have some news for you: Don't believe everything you see online.


    FDA takes action to approve covid-19 vaccination:
    https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19#:~:text=Today, the U.S. Food and,years of age and older.

    (from reverse image search of picture) Bells-Palsy does not represent a statistical increase above the normal rates in the US population, meaning there is no evidence the vaccine caused it.
    https://zeenews.india.com/world/covid-19-four-pfizer-vaccine-volunteers-develop-bells-palsy-read-details-here-2329924.html ;
    PlaffelvohfenGeorge_HorseVVSvic
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    We didn't force anti-vaxers to vaccinate their children before, it should be no different now.
    We didn't force anti-vaxers slave holders to vaccinate free their children Slaves before, it should be no different now.

    This is an appeal to tradition fallacy. Just because we have been doing something a certain way in the past does not mean we should keep doing things that way in the future.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition
    DeePlaffelvohfenDebater123xlJ_dolphin_473
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • DeeDee 3338 Pts   -  
    @Debater123

    We didn't force anti-vaxers to vaccinate their children before, it should be no different now.

    Typical , there’s always selfish individuals like you who couldn’t give a damn about doing their bit for society
    Debater123thegodemperor
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    It should be the choice of the children. Parents and the state are both slave masters!
    PlaffelvohfenDeeHappy_Killbot
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Dee
    The state will put tracking chips in the vaccines in that case if they can they will it's only human nature.
    PlaffelvohfenDeeHappy_Killbot
  • DeeDee 3338 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100

    The state will put tracking chips in the vaccines 

    Seriously? I wonder about the sanity of Americans if this site is anything to go on , out of the many that post here I reckon there’s (Max) 3 that are sane 

  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    It should be the choice of the children. Parents and the state are both slave masters!
    Would you trust a child to make medical decisions for you?

    If not, then why would you trust them to make medical decisions for themselves? Children are immature and inexperienced, and most likely won't be able to make good choices for themselves.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    The state will put tracking chips in the vaccines in that case if they can they will it's only human nature.


    piloteer
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -  
    No. This vaccine has been shown to have side effects, I don't want to be subject to this mass government operation, until it has been proven to be effective, without side effects. And some of them can be permanent, we don't want kids having them either. 
    Ummm, NO!!! Absolutely false from top to bottom. So far, there were two people in the UK who "may have had side effects because of the covid-19 vaccination". "May have had a bad reaction" is pretty far off from being "shown to have side effects", let alone permanent side effects. If you do not have any peer reviewed data to back your assertion that these vaccinations are unsafe and cause permanent side effects, then all we have to go on is your word. Going on your word does not do it for me, because that is not objectively or empirically logical. If you do have reliable data, then I'll publicly apologize to you in front of everybody on this thread. But if you do not have the papers, it's nothing short of criminal stupidity to rely on your assertion.         
    Happy_KillbotVVSvic
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -   edited December 2020
    @Dee
    provide one piece of evidence that proves me wrong.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    Maybe so, but no one should have the right to make decisions for others.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    Maybe so, but no one should have the right to make decisions for others.
    Why not?

    Suppose there is an instance where only a few people have enough information to make the best decisions, and everyone else has incomplete information that would lead to poor decisions. What about then?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -  
    @piloteer

    The idea of "herd immunity" is a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence
    Quote from the linked letter : "Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed." 

    You can also read about The false promise of herd immunity 

    So yeah, a vaccine mandate is the best way to get back to some kind of normalcy and prevent the economy from further damage... 
    The type of herd immunity I'm taking about is actually regarded as "herd protection", because it is a herd immunity that is achieved through vaccination. The other type of herd immunity is achieved by letting the virus run rampant and hoping we get a natural herd immunity without a vaccination. That type of herd immunity has never worked, and that is not what I was referring to. I am taking about reaching "herd protection" by vaccinating and continuing to wear masks in public and distancing.

     If and when the CDC calls for a mandatory vaccination, then I will abide by that policy, but as of now, just because it is not known how long the immunity from the vaccination will last is not a great argument for a mandatory vaccination. As of this moment, the CDC is not calling for a mandatory vaccination even in lieu of the fact that it is not known how long immunity to covid-19 lasts. That bridge will have to be crossed when we reach it, either with or without a mandatory vaccination. 

    You are conflating the message of those articles. They are not necessarily calling for a mandatory vaccination, because it is still unknown if that would even work when it comes to stopping all covid-19 outbreaks. There are definitely people who cannot receive vaccines because of a weakened immune system. That means that the virus could still exist in that portion of the population, even if every able bodied citizen got a vaccination. And so long as the virus exists anywhere, it would still be a threat everywhere. What those articles are actually saying is that we need to continue wearing face masks and distancing even when an appreciable portion of the population has received the vaccination. The only sure fire method for beating the virus is wearing face masks and socially distancing, as well as quarantining when needed and receiving the vaccination when it becomes available to you. A mandatory vaccination does not need to be included for that outcome to be achieved, and it may not actually work at all anyway.

    A mandatory vaccination may actually be counterintuitive because many people will simply rely on the fact that they've been vaccinated and it could make them feel like they don't need to abide by the other social protection policies like wearing masks, because they may feel like they are no longer a threat to others when they actually still may be. We've already seen backlash from the frustration of the fact that we still should wear masks and stay away from others even when an appreciable portion of the population has received the vaccination and making the vaccination mandatory will not fill the gap if we do not wear masks and stay away from others. Mandatory vaccination will literally fix nothing if we cannot have some social awareness of the threat. Even if vaccination does become mandatory, it still will not be a silver bullet guarantee to stopping the treat of the virus, because like I said, so long as the virus still exists anywhere, it is still a threat everywhere. A mandatory vaccination cannot be relied upon to stop the threat of a society that disregards the other social protocols. So, not only is it not known if a mandatory vaccination is needed, it is equally not known if it would actually be effective.                                
  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -  
    Dee said:
    @anarchist100

    The state will put tracking chips in the vaccines 

    Seriously? I wonder about the sanity of Americans if this site is anything to go on , out of the many that post here I reckon there’s (Max) 3 that are sane 

    Oooo oooo, am I one of the three sane ones? Huh huh, am I, am I? Eeeeeeee, I think Dee might be talking about me. :o   
    Dee
  • @piloteer

    The idea of "herd immunity" is a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence
    Quote from the linked letter : "Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed." 

    You can also read about The false promise of herd immunity 

    So yeah, a vaccine mandate is the best way to get back to some kind of normalcy and prevent the economy from further damage... 


    I remember our Cheif Scientific Advisor going on about some absurd notion about herd immunity in the UK just before the first lockdown. Shortly after that our government recieved hundreds of letters from hundreds of scientists basically saying " are you doing?"  I also remember some Harved Disease Scientist saying when he heard about the UK's herd immunity plan he thought it was satire.

    Plaffelvohfen



  • piloteer said:
    Dee said:
    @anarchist100

    The state will put tracking chips in the vaccines 

    Seriously? I wonder about the sanity of Americans if this site is anything to go on , out of the many that post here I reckon there’s (Max) 3 that are sane 

    Oooo oooo, am I one of the three sane ones? Huh huh, am I, am I? Eeeeeeee, I think Dee might be talking about me. :o   


    A Journalest of ourst in the UK recently asked where an earth someone had heard that and he said it's all over social media.

    piloteer




  • @George_Horse ;
    No. This vaccine has been shown to have side effects, I don't want to be subject to this mass government operation, until it has been proven to be effective, without side effects. And some of them can be permanent, we don't want kids having them either. 
    The only long term side effect is that you can never get covid-19 ever again. The actual virus however, can cause permanent lung damage. Sounds to me like you are skipping over a dollar because you saw a dime.
    Yeah you go ahead and get one tell me if you end up like one of these poor schmucks. 

    champion tenza on Twitter 4 Pfizer covid vaccine volunteers have developed  Bells Palsy This is how your face looks like if you have Bells Palsy   httpstcoySX0ofr4mV httpstcoCto0LWI6i8

    They're dishing these out so early, and I haven't seen anything from the FDA  approving them either. 


    Actually, the FDA has recently approved this vaccine for emergancy use in the USA. The first US Citizen was a nurse. Also, USA's leading experts Dr Fauci and among others have reviewed this vaccine and deemed it safe to use.
    Happy_Killbot



  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    Inform others in that case. It's our duty to provide information to those who are uneducated, unfortunately some choose to ignore it.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    Inform others in that case. It's our duty to provide information to those who are uneducated, unfortunately some choose to ignore it.
    And what if they don't listen? Just saying, above you literally say "The state will put tracking chips in the vaccines in that case if they can they will it's only human nature." Seems to me we have informed you, yet you are still making a bad decision that puts others at risk. Then what?
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    Informed me of what? whether they will or they will not seems at this point to be a matter of opinion.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    Informed me of what? whether they will or they will not seems at this point to be a matter of opinion.
    Why would you consider this to be a matter of opinion when it is so obviously not true? We don't have the technology to do that, and we don't need to because people have smart phones and use the internet.  :/  

    Besides, you didn't answer the question. I want to know how you intend to keep dangerous people from ruining everything.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -   edited December 2020
    @Happy_Killbot
    try to see this from both sides, If This Is Even A Thing!!!!, They will not tell you what technology they have. so if I'm right they're lying, if you're right they're not really that advanced the fact that the whole thing would require secrecy means that this neither proves nor disproves either of us. The oppression of the people is the nature of governance if not living in a dictatorship would not be so bad. Not everyone has a phone. And I follow Gandhy's philosophy that we must free ourselves from the need to dominate others.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    try to see this from both sides, If This Is Even A Thing!!!!, They will not tell you what technology they have. so if I'm right they're lying, if you're right they're not really that advanced the fact that the whole thing would require secrecy means that this neither proves nor disproves either of us. The oppression of the people is the nature of governance if not living in a dictatorship would not be so bad. Not everyone has a phone. And I follow Gandhy's philosophy that we must free ourselves from the need to dominate others.
    Okay, well I could discuss why for hours about how a chip for tracking is not physically possible, the TL;DR is that you could never store or harvest enough energy to transmit the data over long distances in a package small enough to fit through a needle on a syringe. Something like this is physically impossible. The people who are suggesting it is true are uneducated conspiracy theorists.

    Besides, all of the tech that the government uses is produced and distributed by private industry, the government manufactures almost nothing themselves, including the vaccine.

    this isn't a matter of opinion, this is a matter of an uniformed non-sense proposition vs rational thinking. If you are not convinced by this, then how can I trust you to make choices that effect me?

    You still haven't answered the question, which is how do you keep dangerous people, such as those who suppose that vaccines have chips in them, from causing harm to others?
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    Have you ever heard of Nano-technology?
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    Have you ever heard of Nano-technology?
    Do you know what the limits of nano-technology is? It's physically impossible to produce a tracking device of that size, and completely unnecessary since they have cell-phones and the internet. Why bother?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -   edited December 2020
    One Nanoparticle is one 25,400,000 of an inch.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    One Nanoparticle is one 25,400,000 of an inch.
    Great. Now show me how you can turn that into a battery, data storage, and a radio transmitter.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    The truth must be told I have no knowledge of any sort, in the issue of technology I'll get back to you once I have read up a bit
    best wishes. Cheers!
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    The truth must be told I have no knowledge of any sort, in the issue of technology I'll get back to you once I have read up a bit
    best wishes. Cheers!
    Just a heads up, you are going to be looking for a long time. A very, very long time, forever in fact.
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 273 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    worth it in the name of knowledge.
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