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Was it actually ANTIFA?

Debate Information

Is there valid evidence to suggest that it was actually ANTIFA agitators dressed in trump gear who stormed the capitol building this week?
  1. Live Poll

    Was it ANTIFA?

    9 votes
    1. Yes. Trump supporters would not do such a thing.
        0.00%
    2. No. Trump supporters are trying to cover their tracks.
      100.00%



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    Arguments


  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 683 Pts   -  
    My best guess, both were included.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers

    Do you feel that those who support the president and were rioting were in the wrong? I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you think any possible ANTIFA involvement was egregious.  
    Plaffelvohfen
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 683 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    Whoever was being violent was wrong.
    piloteerDebater123
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers ;

    I think it is fair to say that of the protesters, some of them were ANTIFA, but the overwhelming majority were most likely Trump supporters. So far, of all the people being arrested or killed they have all been Trump supporters with the exception of the cop who was shot to my knowledge. It seems that thus far, all of the ANTIFA claims are conspiracy and/or misinformation.
    piloteer
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 683 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot. I was told the cop died just from a medical issue, but I haven't looked into it a whole lot.

    I think it is safe to say most of the crowd was trump supporters, I'm just talking about the violent ones.  I think there were some of both, I'm not going to speculate how much was either side because there won't be any proof I can point to.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2163 Pts   -  
    According to the FBI, there is no evidence supporting that claim...

    Blaming antifa for apparent instances of right-wing violence, and claiming such members are creating “false flags,” has become a popular deflection for some conservative allies of the president.

    piloteerJaceAlofRI
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers ;
     I was told the cop died just from a medical issue, but I haven't looked into it a whole lot.

    I think it is safe to say most of the crowd was trump supporters, I'm just talking about the violent ones.  I think there were some of both, I'm not going to speculate how much was either side because there won't be any proof I can point to.
    I think that most of the violent ones were Trump supporters, as there is no evidence that ANTIFA was there and being violent. I mean, did you see all the flags? They lowered the American flag to raise a Trump 2020 flag.

    ANTIFA wouldn't have done that.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers ;
     I was told the cop died just from a medical issue, but I haven't looked into it a whole lot.

    I think it is safe to say most of the crowd was trump supporters, I'm just talking about the violent ones.  I think there were some of both, I'm not going to speculate how much was either side because there won't be any proof I can point to.
    I think that most of the violent ones were Trump supporters, as there is no evidence that ANTIFA was there and being violent. I mean, did you see all the flags? They lowered the American flag to raise a Trump 2020 flag.

    ANTIFA wouldn't have done that.
    If it actually had been orchestrated by ANTIFA, those would be exactly the types of things they would do to purposely make trump supporters look violent and indifferent to the American flag, and therefore American ideals. I sometimes use an "artistic debate" technique where I pretend to have a sentiment that is the opposite of my actual feeling and purposely make myself and my arguments look very bad. If you went around shooting stray cats, you wouldn't get many friends. But if you went around shooting stray cats while being dressed like your worst enemy, at least you'd make them look horrible. 

    I personally think that ANTIFA was not involved because they are too decentralized and loosely based to be able to orchestrate an overtaking of the capitol building. Perhaps there were ANTIFA present, but it's unlikely very many of them, if any at all were actually involved.        
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @piloteer ;
    If it actually had been orchestrated by ANTIFA, those would be exactly the types of things they would do to purposely make trump supporters look violent and indifferent to the American flag, and therefore American ideals
    That's completely insane, when Rudy Giuliani is on stage saying calling for "trial by Combat" do you really think that ANTIFA would just sit there? No, they would go beat him up. ANTIFA isn't an organization, there is no way that so many people could be made to orchestrate such a complex and convoluted false-flag attack.

    That only makes sense if you are willing to not think about it at all, it's obvious .
    I personally think that ANTIFA was not involved because they are too decentralized and loosely based to be able to orchestrate an overtaking of the capitol building. Perhaps there were ANTIFA present, but it's unlikely very many of them, if any at all were actually involved.        
    I would agree with this but given how superficially vacuous the proposition being made in defense of these rioters is and the shear number of people who either believe it or are willing to entertain it as a serious suggestion is a problem.
    PlaffelvohfenAlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1145 Pts   -   edited January 9
    @Happy_Killbot

    If ANTIFA were an able and capable resistance group like the French resistance, they would be able to understand how beneficial it would be for them to masquerade as their enemy and purposely make them look unethical. The nazis claimed the Reichstag was set on fire by communists, but it was obviously the nazis themselves. That's an old trick right out of the book of espionage. 

    I'm just arguing that your argument that ANTIFA wouldn't take down the American flag and raise the trump flag is not necessarily true because if they understood how badly it makes trump supporters look, they most certainly would do that. 

    I'm saying that the most obvious argument that it wasn't ANTIFA is because they have not the resources or the centralized planning to be able to pull it off.

    I'm not saying I disagree with you, because I do not think it was ANTIFA. I'm just saying my argument is better than yours. You know, cuz I'm a pompous douche.       
    AlofRI
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 3902 Pts   -  
    @piloteer ;
    If ANTIFA were an able and capable resistance group like the French resistance, they would be able to understand how beneficial it would be for them to masquerade as their enemy and purposely make them look unethical.
    Everyone already thought that Trump supporters were unethical.
    The nazis claimed the Reichstag was set on fire by communists, but it was obviously the nazis themselves. That's an old trick right out of the book of espionage. 
    Think of the size and scale difference here, something that takes a dozen people could maybe be pulled off, but this? Thousands of people. The likelihood of a conspiracy being true goes down exponentially as the number of people involved goes up.
    I'm just arguing that your argument that ANTIFA wouldn't take down the American flag and raise the trump flag is not necessarily true because if they understood how badly it makes trump supporters look, they'd most certainly would do that. 
    The flag raisin is just one example in a sea of examples.
    piloteerAlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • JaceJace 148 Pts   -  

    agreed. agents of the state are the worst.
  • JaceJace 148 Pts   -   edited January 9
    i mean, antifia is so well known for its hoards of middle-aged redneck white males and established band of alt right figures. especially that tattooed viking, Q Shaman. classic antifa, amiright.
  • AlofRIAlofRI 1233 Pts   -  
    My best guess, both were included.
    Do you realize that Trump supporters HATE ANTIFA?? They wouldn't have welcomed them with open arms, they'd have welcomed them with OPEN-FIRE! What better way to say they were just "defending our capitol from ANTIFA!

    It's amazing how, since Trump (and I'm talking WAY BACK in the birther era), has been beating his gums, that common sense has disappeared from the right! 
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 683 Pts   -   edited January 9
    @AlofRI. Who claimed they were defending the capital from antifa?  The question is what piloteer pointed out, was antifa dressed as trump supporters?

    Regardless because most of the people at the rally were trump supporters, I wished they would've tried to stop anyone being violent.
    AlofRIpiloteer
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