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We have non discrimination laws based on Race, Gender, LGBT, etc. Why not politics?

Debate Information

Why is it ok to discriminate against Conservatives applying for jobs? We have laws that prevent employers from even asking questions about a person's religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.

Why is it ok to deny a person a job based on their politcal persuasion? Big Corporations are joining forces to deny employment to people who worked in the Trump administration!
We have big corporations refusing to sell products, such as My Pillow, when the owners are Conservative Trump supporters.
We have TV sponsers denying sponsership to Conservative programming.

Why are those on the Left such hypocrites? Why is job discrimination perfectly ok if done against Conservatives? The double standards from people on the Left is truly nauseating and goes to show the cherry picked phony concerns they have in regards to non discrimination in the workforce.
Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenDebater123ZeusAres42ConservativeGirl0519
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  • @We_are_accountable

    We have social media sites such as Twitter blocking Conservatives from posting evidence that implicated Joe Biden to shady Chinese partnerships.

    We have Big Tech companies such as Amazon, Apple, Facebook, etc. denying Conservative companies access to the internet!

    We are once again witnessing Blacklists based on political affiliation.

    Why are those on the Left such arrogant Big brother authoritarians? If their politics are so great, why must they silence any opposition?
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenConservativeGirl0519
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    You can change your political views, in case you were not aware.

    The other things? Not so much.

    All of this is just a very ignorant manifestation of the close-minded perception of their opinion as an intrinsic component of their persona. You are not your ideas, kid.
    We_are_accountableCYDdhartaPlaffelvohfenConservativeGirl0519TreeMan
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.




  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 17
    @Happy_Killbot

    As always, you and the Left wallow in double standards. For hypocritical people such as yourself, non discrimination is only afforded politically correct groups.

    When it suits you, you say that Transgender people can not change their gender, but with politics we can? Is there one subject that you are ever consistent with? Nahhh

    The last I knew, people can change their religion, but employers can not discriminate because of your religion.
    Your excuses have no rational basis to condone discrimination against people on the basis of their politics.
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenZeusAres42ConservativeGirl0519
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -  
    Let me blow your mind: lack of non-discrimination laws based on politics means that not only can you discriminate against "conservatives", but you also can discriminate against any other political group, including "leftists". You can fire any "leftist" working for you if you dislike their politics. And why would you want to lose this right? Do you want to be forced to hire / keep people who you so obviously dislike? It is your company; if you dislike someone, if the revenue they generate does not make up for the negative emotions interacting with them brings to you, then tell them to leave. Problem solved!

    I do not think that any non-discrimination laws should exist. Whether to discriminate or not discriminate against someone based on any characteristic, relevant or not, is the individual decision, and state should have no role in making it.
    xlJ_dolphin_473ConservativeGirl0519
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -   edited February 17
    @We_are_accountable ;

    When it suits you, you say that Transgender people can not change their gender, but with politics we can? 
    If you are Trans, you don't change your gender. You are born with that gender and live with it, the change is to make your body match your identity.

    You are missing the point here, the point is that politics has nothing to do with your identity unlike the other things you list. If you think that it does, then it just goes to show that you have no ability to think for yourself (no surprise there)
    PlaffelvohfenDebater123We_are_accountableStarlord616
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 332 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable
    They should just use common sense, no laws needed.
  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 17
    @Happy_Killbot

    I listed RELIGION as well.

    Employers can not discriminate based on a person's religion!

    So now you are trying to say our religion defines our identity? Keep digging your hole deeper.

    You are proving everything I say about the Left. You refuse to admit your double standards and hypocrisy. I have better things to do.
    You are sitting here trying to defend the discrimination of people in the workforce based on their politcal beliefs.

    Do you have any idea how screwed up that is?
    Happy_Killbot
  • @anarchist100

    I would agree were it not for the fact that Leftist's have no common sense. They are arrogant authoritarian control fanatics. When the majority of our businesses are now owned by Leftwing Democrats using their power and monopoly to oppress people based on politics, then we have a HUGE PROBLEM!
    Happy_Killbot
  • @MayCaesar

    Guess what? If not for monopolies I completely agree with you. Private businesses should have the right to hire and fire who they want for any reason.

    Democrats and those on the Left are the ones who have forced their authoritarian laws to control private businesses. They say we must not discriminate based on race, religion, gender, etc. etc.
    But these same hypocrites have no problem when their Big Corporate donors discriminating against their political opposition. It has to be an even playing field if they are going to push their laws on business.
    Happy_Killbot
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable ;
    I listed RELIGION as well.

    Employers can not discriminate based on a person's religion!
    And I responded that religion is part of identity, politics are not unless you are incapable of thinking for yourself.

    Riddle me this: Do you identify as a conservative, or are you an individual who has a conservative ideology?

    Tell me it's not different for religion.
    We_are_accountable
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -   edited February 17
    @We_are_accountable

    I think you got it a little backwards. They would like to prohibit discrimination based on politics as well and have been trying introducing all kinds of "hate speech" laws for a while now, targeting people expressing opinions they strongly dislike. That they have not succeeded at this is something that you should celebrate, not criticize.

    On the marketplace, you are free to come to a plaza and offer people a trade. You are not free to demand and receive trade, however. If people do not like you, they may choose not to associate with you; if you do not like them, you may choose not to associate with them. It is not a matter of politics or economics; it is a matter of human interaction. We like some people and dislike others.
    It is good to be discriminatory towards other people: only this way can you surround yourself with people you enjoy being around and keep others at a distance. Now, in my opinion those who choose to sacrifice actual monetary profits for something as petty as, "I do not want to interact with someone who disagrees with me on something", are being silly - but, at the end of the day, it is their right, their choice and their lost profit.
  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 17
    @Happy_Killbot

    Get real! People do change their religion.

    It matters not what people believe when it comes to their religion and it matters not what people believe when it comes to politics. If you give special interest groups special treatment in the workforce, then you must give all people the same special treatment. It's insane to discriminate based on politics.

    The Left is made up of hypocrites... PERIOD.
    Happy_KillbotCYDdharta




  • @We_are_accountable
    "Legal prejudice refers to a condition shown by a party that will defeat the action of an opposing party. In other words, it is a fact or condition which may defeat the opposing party's case, if the same is established or shown by a party to the litigation. "

    Legal Prejudice Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

    Fears of legal Prejudice maybe that have evolved from Constitutional prejudice by states of the union's basic principles create?
  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 17
    @MayCaesar

    I agree, but where you keep missing the point is that Democrats and the Left DO control what private businesses can do, who they must hire, etc. etc.

    You want me to be happy they have not included a person's politics just to hurt their opponents? They are singling our Conservatives when it comes to discrimination. If this does not bother you, then WOW!

    When the playing field gets even, I will be happy. Government should never involve itself into private business because politicians have proven they are corrupt and biased. They use corporate money and then play favors for these corporations.
    Happy_Killbot
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable

    It seems to me that you misunderstand the nature of a free market. A free market is only a level playing field in the sense that anyone can come in and offer a trade. It does not prescribe that people with all opinions should have an equal chance of getting a trade.
    Free market is not a political space; it is a social space. When you come to a private party, the organizer may choose to not let you in for any reason. When you ask someone out for a date, they may reject you for any reason. Similarly, when you offer a trade, people can refuse for any reason. And when you ask to come to their private online platform, they can say, "No, we do not want people like this around here". And that is their right.

    Anyone is free to build their own platform and invite anyone they want to it. The market does not owe any impartiality to anyone. You do not like a product - do not use it, you do not like a customer - do not sell them a product.

    As to the collusion between the government and businesses, that certainly needs to go away. But that is not what you, Trump and other mercantilists want: instead of divorcing the government from the economy, they want to further integrate them. They want the government to mandate regulations of online platforms, TV channels, etc. Do you not see how counterproductive it is? You are trying to solve the issue of collusion with government by furthering this collusion through new regulations. Do you think those regulations will be applied impartially? What you have been opposing all this time, the policies you advocate for will make 10 times stronger.

    If you want a free market, then you have to accept that sometimes people on this market will be nasty towards you - just like people are sometimes nasty towards you on the streets, at work or at your home. This is life, and there is no place for the government here. It is up to individuals to resolve their issues. The government should only show up when violent force is used.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable ;
    Get real! People do change their religion.
    But is your religion or creed not part of your identity protected by the 1st Amendment?

    Politics do not have constitutional protection, therefore there is no hypocrisy, just your typical propagandized ignorance.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable ;
    Get real! People do change their religion.
    But is one's religion or creed not part of someone's identity protected by the 1st Amendment?

    Politics do not have constitutional protection, therefore there is no hypocrisy, just typical propagandized ignorance.
    We_are_accountable
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Starlord616Starlord616 330 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable
    They should just use common sense, no laws needed.
    has this ever worked?

    Happy_Killbot
  • @MayCaesar

    You keep repeating the same thing that I agree with. You are missing my point.

    I want what you want, but we must first end the hypocrisy whereby only certain special interest groups get non discrimination benefits. If you want less government involvement in the private sector, then you must stop it for all groups. It is not fair when Democrats push their LGBT non discrimination laws, while ignoring other groups.

    Our non discrimination laws must work for all people, or no people! No one in America should get special treatment based on their political bias.
    Happy_Killbot
  • jeleysejeleyse 86 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable

    I have reason to assume that you are a cis, straight, white male, living comfortably above the poverty line. Congrats, bud, you're living at peak privilege in the US right now. No person will ever seriously walk up to you and cuss you out of a grocery story for displaying the way you display. I know this to be a fact.

    However, as far as the conservatism thing goes, you should speak for yourself. You have a platform to share your frankly bigoted ideas on. You obviously have been unscathed by whatever power is trying to keep your voice down.

    Tell me, what legitimate discriminations, not microaggressions, not rude jokes, have you actively been a victim of? And think, how many of those have you said to other people/groups on this platform? You ask not to be "discriminated" against but yet you actively discriminate against others. Make it make sense. 
    Happy_KillbotWe_are_accountableCYDdhartaPlaffelvohfen
  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 18
    @jeleyse

    LOL, now I'm a bigot?
    You are doing what all good Leftists do. You insult and attack Conservatives for their views with no evidence to back up your judgemental claims.

    I have better thing to do then banter words with a judgemental joke.

    P.S., if I am living comfortably above the poverty line, that means I chose to work hard, live responsibly, and benefitted from those responsible choices. This is the message that should be sent to every able bodied person in this world. We all have the free choice to live responsibly and reaping the rewards.
    Happy_KillbotCYDdhartaPlaffelvohfen
  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 18
    @jeleyse

    Every Conservative parent in this nation is affected when Leftwing authoritarians force their LGBT agendas into our public schools, into our Board rooms, indoctrinating our impressionable children to deny what the Science of Biology teaches.

    It matters not if you believe Homosexuality is a natural normal sexual orientation. There are millons of parents who do not agree as we base our beliefs on Science and the obvious natural design of our sexuality. We understand what our body parts are designed for.

    There are millions of people with all types of fetishes. We have peope attracted to animals, to corpses, to children, to the same sex, to latex, you name it.
    Guess what? Most people are respectful to parents with impressionable children, and do not flaunt their fetishes in public.
    I have yet to see people wearing latex in public. In your world we should all be able to flaunt our fetishes, and everyone should just live with it.

    This is what bothers so many Americans. We believe our children deserve to be protected from controversial subjects and fetishes. I understand that you think your particular fetish is normal and nothing to hide. Imagine if everyone acted out their fetishes in public? Where would it stop?

    I do not display overt signs of Heterosexual affection when in public. I understand some might be offended. If you have unnatural attractions or fetishes towards others, try toning it down in public so as not to offend those who want their children understanding their natural sexuality. When you show respect for others, you wil be given respect. Stop being so arrogant to believe you can flaunt whatever fetish you want in public.

    Just for the record, I have never cussed out or said a derogatory thing towards anyone in public. Thankfully, most people are respectful to others before displaying things that may offend.

    Conservatives are sick of a Leftwing Democrat Party who can not give a speech without pushing their LGBT agendas. It's all politics and money! Now we are watching as they discriminate against anyone who disagrees with their agendas.
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfen




  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    You keep repeating the same thing that I agree with. You are missing my point.

    I want what you want, but we must first end the hypocrisy whereby only certain special interest groups get non discrimination benefits. If you want less government involvement in the private sector, then you must stop it for all groups. It is not fair when Democrats push their LGBT non discrimination laws, while ignoring other groups.

    Our non discrimination laws must work for all people, or no people! No one in America should get special treatment based on their political bias.
    I do not think that you agree with the core point though. I do not want there to not be political bias in private companies. What I want is a free market in which anybody is free to choose to not associate with anybody for whatever reason. It is not about government involvement in the private sector: that is just a tool, not the goal. The goal is to free people up to interact with other people on the consensual basis however they see fit.

    I do not deny the hypocrisy, but, again, you are only looking on the hypocrisy from one side. For all the claims about defending free speech and impartiality in the Republican party, just recently their president was going to pass some laws regulating speech on the Internet. Earlier he also wanted to "open up the libel laws" to sue people who criticized him in press. Is this not an example of hypocrisy? Seeing hypocrisy in your opponents' "camp" and ignoring one in your own is also, in turn, hypocrisy.

    As far as my personal desires go, I would like people to not reject trades based on something so petty as disagreement on politics. I personally have befriended communists, even though I consider communism to be the most vile ideology ever practiced on this planet (far worse than national-socialism or Islamic fundamentalism). People can disagree on something and find common ground on other things.
    But, again, that is not a matter of politics, but societal culture. If someone does not want to trade with Trump supporters, for example, then it is okay to criticize them - but, at the end of the day, you have to accept that it is their right. And you are free to not trade with Sanders supporters. Everybody is free to make these choices.
  • @MayCaesar

    I REPEAT... until you fight to end non discrimination laws for all groups, then your words are worthless.

    Show me laws that the GOP passed to control private business. Stop taking words from Trump as fact. He uses extreme words to negotiate and then comes to the middle.

    When I see the hypocrisy on my side, in the form of laws passed, I will admit it. I am so sick of people taking words off the cuff from Trump, and using them as if they were mandated laws.

    Trump is going after social media outlets who have censored him. He wants a fair playing field whereby Democrats are also censored, or no one is censored. He wants a free and open market as well.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable

    I do not "fight" for anything, but yes, I would like all of these laws to be abolished altogether. I think that is pretty clear from my words.

    In other words, you are saying that Trump does not really mean what he says. That much is clear, but it still is important what he says when he is the president of the US. Threatening private companies with censorship and later saying, "Oh, by the way, guys, I was just saying it in order to negotiate", does not fly. It would be like me putting a gun to your head and saying, "Give me your wallet". And then, a year later, saying, "Oh, I was just joking. Not sure why that guy actually gave me his wallet!"
    The government is a goon with a gun, nothing more, nothing less. And the words of the most important person in a government condemning particular private companies have practical implications.

    This part is exactly what I do not want to see on the market. Marketplace has no place for loaded guns. It is a place of trade and negotiation, not a place of threats and gunshots. It is none of the president's business what individual private companies do, and he certainly should keep silent when the obvious conflict of interests is in place. Trump should have been the last person to criticize companies for censoring Trump.
    CYDdharta
  • @MayCaesar

    Trump said those words because they censor him and other Conservatives while giving people on the Left a pass. He understands that the Left will never eliminate all their private business regulations. All he can do is threaten them with regulations if they refuse to be non biased in their censorship, He wants an even playing field.

    There is nothing else he can do. What would you have him do? Allow the bias and censorship while giving Democrats and social media all the power to brainwash the public?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • jeleysejeleyse 86 Pts   -   edited February 19
    @We_are_accountable ;

    You didn't answer my question. When have you, as a conservative, experienced discrimination serious enough to call for legal protection? I, as a liberal, have never experienced any.

    Homophobia isn't a political belief that needs to be defended. Neither is racism, ableism, sexism, etc. You can choose not to hold these beliefs, and you can also choose not to express them openly. As above stated, this doesn't apply to race, gender, sexuality, or religion.
    CYDdharta
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable

    He is the top governmental representative. He does not get to "threaten" private organizations with anything, under any context, unless those private organizations are explicitly doing something illegal.
    If he does want to do something about the hypocrisy that you have pointed out, then he should openly advocate for abolishment of all discrimination laws. That would be consistent with what he was is trying to accomplish.

    Otherwise, it really is the same as what many "soft dictators" do. Putin does it all the time. He is clever enough to not immediately send in folks with guns and appropriate someone's business. He does the following: one day he suddenly shows up at the organization headquarters, allegedly to learn more about this organization - nothing political at all, he just wants to know, you see, how the government can learn from its success. At the end of the meeting, he says, "Guys, I see that there are a lot of things that you can improve around here. I will send you some recommendations. Please take them into account when deciding how to develop your business". And anyone who has lived in Russia for, at least, several years knows exactly what this means.

    From there, two scenarios are possible.
    1. The organization follows those "recommendations", that essentially come down to its half-nationalization. On its board of directors suddenly people from the government and other Putin's friends appear. It suddenly starts getting a lot of government contracts. Usual stuff.
    2. The organization does not follow those "recommendations". A few months later a couple of its directors disappear without a trace, later to be found in garbage containers with no heads on. Also, suddenly it turns out that the company has violated some anti-trust regulations, underpaid taxes somewhere, etc., so multiple lawsuits ensue. Eventually the company is either given up for public taking, which, of course, another company strongly associated with the government takes - or is completely demolished.

    This is how it is done in such countries. It is not explicit: the president just "gives recommendations". But you better follow these recommendations, if your life is precious to you.
    And when the president of the US does the same - more than the same, as he also utters open threats - then how do you think are private companies going to react? Same way: "We better do the governmental bidding, lest some "legal violations" in our activities are discovered". Such interference in private affairs by a public official is unacceptable.
    We_are_accountable
  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 19
    @jeleyse

    People change their sexuality all the time. People married with kids leave their family and choose a Gay lifestyle. No one forces a person to be a bisexual, so what on earth gives them special job hiring benefits over a person's poitics.

    You as a Liberal do not get denied jobs because only Liberal companies discriminate for a person' politics.
    ConservativeGirl0519CYDdharta
  • anarchist100anarchist100 332 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable
    This is definitely different because your political view point should never be part of your identity because you'll become dogmatic and closeminded to opposing ideas, although discrimination (if you can call it that) by political views does lead down a slippery slope, cancel culture is bad.
  • @anarchist100

    I agree, cancel culture is truly pathetic.

    The point I'm tryng to make is the hypocrisy and double standards from the Left. They clain to care about people not being discriminated against, but are the worst offenders when it comes to Conservatives being discriminated against.

    I want a free market where people are given jobs based on work ethics, responsibility, etc...... not a person's skin color or their sexual orientation. We need no affirmative action and we need no corporations in bed with politics.
    anarchist100CYDdharta
  • Because they want everyone to follow the leftist agenda. If you say anything that is remotely right-leaning you automatically get canceled it's absolutely disgusting.
     
    Happy_KillbotCYDdhartaWe_are_accountablePlaffelvohfen




  • jeleysejeleyse 86 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable

    I'm assuming that you don't have an answer to the question. That's fine, I'll just assume that you personally have never experienced serious discrimination on the basis of your own political beliefs. 

    So what are you trying to protect? What discrimination is there to prevent?
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    @ConservativeGirl0519 ;
    Because they want everyone to follow the leftist agenda. If you say anything that is remotely right-leaning you automatically get canceled it's absolutely disgusting.
    So, you don't think that a business ought to be allowed to do as it pleases then?

    What exactly does "right-wing economics" mean to you anyways?
    We_are_accountablePlaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1425 Pts   -  

    So, you don't think that a business ought to be allowed to do as it pleases then?


    @MayCaesar is the only one on this forum who might believe businesses ought to be allowed to do whatever pleases them.


    We_are_accountable
  • We_are_accountableWe_are_accountable 1050 Pts   -   edited February 20
    @ConservativeGirl0519

    Democrat's are using the same motives as dictators throughout the ages. To control a nation, Government must first demonize those in opposition of their rule, much the same as Nazi's did with Jews. Once the Government conditions the people to fear their opponents, they can start discriminating aganst their opposition with cancel culture.

    From day one, Democrats have demonized Trump with constant distortions of his words. With the help of the Leftwing media, they have tried to paint Trump as some kind of racist, nazi, hater of women, homophobic, hater of legal immigrants, hater of average Muslims, Russian sympathiser, etc. etc.
    These are all lies and distortions of the truth. This is what authoritarian Leftist's do to condition the people.

    If any Democrat President had accomplished what Trump accomplished, they would have been applauded and praised by the Left.




  • @jeleyse

    Are your reading capabilities lacking today? I have clearly explained the discrimination against Conservatives in this nation, and you waste our time trying to excuse it away.

    I have better things to do.
  • @jeleyse

    I have been discriminated against for my Christian beliefs, my Conservative beliefs, etc. when it comes to promotions within companies. If people do not assimilate into peer groups, they will be passed by in the work force. I understand how it has always worked and do not try to force Government mandates on private companies.

    As long as our companies do not wallow in politics, and there is an even playing field, we need no anti discrimination laws.
    We no longer have an even playing field as we see with all the Leftwing monopolies in our nation.

    You can not have it all your way. If you are going to force non discrimination laws for one group, you MUST do the same with all groups. 
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar is the only one on this forum who might believe businesses ought to be allowed to do whatever pleases them.
    That's because he has ideological integrity. I might not agree with him on everything, but at the very least I have to admit that he has knowledge and consistency in his political values.

    The economic right is all about privatization, deregulation, and free markets. If someone stops supporting these the moment that they have a consequence, then that begs several questions:

    Why were they supporting these ideas in the first place?
    Do they have a robust understanding of what their position entails?
    Will they continue to support these ideas having experienced the consequences?
    We_are_accountablePlaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1425 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar is the only one on this forum who might believe businesses ought to be allowed to do whatever pleases them.
    That's because he has ideological integrity. I might not agree with him on everything, but at the very least I have to admit that he has knowledge and consistency in his political values.


    Going too far in any one direction leads to corruption and disaster, which is why nearly everyone moderates their view.


    The economic right is all about privatization, deregulation, and free markets. If someone stops supporting these the moment that they have a consequence, then that begs several questions:

    Why were they supporting these ideas in the first place?
    Do they have a robust understanding of what their position entails?
    Will they continue to support these ideas having experienced the consequences?


    Meh, then converse is also true. The left is all about total governmental regulation and governmental control of the marketplace.   If someone stops supporting these the moment ... yada yada yada


    We_are_accountablePlaffelvohfen
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta ;
    Going too far in any one direction leads to corruption and disaster, which is why nearly everyone moderates their view.
    How moderate would you consider Donald Trump, Mitch McConnel, We_are_accountable, and Ted Cruz to be?
    We_are_accountable
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -   edited February 20
    I do not believe that "businesses ought to be allowed to do whatever pleases them". But I do believe that businesses ought to have unrestricted consensual interactions with whoever accepts them, and ought not to have unconsensual interactions imposed on them. It is no one else's business what two adults do in their bedroom, and just as much it is no one else's business what two adults do behind the doors in a Goldman Sachs office.
    CYDdharta said:

    Going too far in any one direction leads to corruption and disaster, which is why nearly everyone moderates their view.
    Okay, let us apply this to some things.

    "Murder should never be allowed" is too far in one direction. We need moderation: murder should sometimes be allowed.
    "Rape should never be allowed" is too far in one direction. We need moderation: rape should sometimes be allowed.
    "Highway robbery should never be allowed" is too far in one direction. We need moderation: highway robbery should sometimes be allowed.

    "Moderation" is a keyword for "I do not have a well developed position and cannot take a firm stance". I am quite unapologetic in my defense of property rights, and I do not believe that their violation in some cases should be allowed, and the idea that it should is just as abhorrent in my eyes as the above three statements.
    And most people agree with it, when it comes to what they see as "personal property". Few people will say that the government should sometimes be able to just take your car away from you, because it has some economical need or something.

    It is too bad that people do not understand that businesses are just as much a personal property as a car. Facebook is not a "public square" or anything; it is a property of its shareholders. What they do with it is up to them. They should be free to ban conservatives, they should be free to ban gays, they should be free to ban Christians, they should be free to ban Muslims, they should be free to ban women - anyone they like. And people who do not like it are free not to use their services, just like people who do not like you, CYDdharta, do not get to tell you how to run your home. You do with your property whatever you please.

    Although, again, maybe we should not go too far in one direction and, instead, moderate our views. So I will say that you should let a commission led by me into your home, so I could inspect everything and see that you are running everything justly. Just once. Some middle ground, please!

    ---

    All of this does not mean that I approve what these companies do. The whole "cancelling" culture, as it is called nowadays, is a deeply worrying phenomenon. However, it does not justify taking coercive action against private companies. If you do not like it, then vote with your wallet, try to win people's minds by advocating against this phenomenon, build your own Facebook, Twitter, etc. There are many things you can do to not let it affect you significantly, and employing the governmental apparatus is not one of them.
    And, at the end of the day, whether you like it or not, it is not your property, so you do not get a say in how it is used. You can, if you really like, simply not interact with any "cancelling" people - and everything is going to be great. If there is no one in your social circle that would "cancel" you, then what exactly is the problem?

    I kicked all people out of my life who were overly sensitive and who would not let me speak my mind without lashing at me - and my life is better for it. You can do it too.
    CYDdharta




  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1425 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    I do not believe that "businesses ought to be allowed to do whatever pleases them". But I do believe that businesses ought to have unrestricted consensual interactions with whoever accepts them, and ought not to have unconsensual interactions imposed on them. It is no one else's business what two adults do in their bedroom, and just as much it is no one else's business what two adults do behind the doors in a Goldman Sachs office.
    CYDdharta said:

    Going too far in any one direction leads to corruption and disaster, which is why nearly everyone moderates their view.
    Okay, let us apply this to some things.


    Your application leaves a lot to be desired;

    "Murder should never be allowed" is too far in one direction. We need moderation: murder should sometimes be allowed.
    Apparently you're never heard of justifiable homicide.

    "Rape should never be allowed" is too far in one direction. We need moderation: rape should sometimes be allowed.
    A 17 year old having sex with a 16 year old if fine, a year later the 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old is rape, a year after that the 19 year old having sex with an 18 year old is fine.  You are correct, sometimes rape should be allowed.

    "Highway robbery should never be allowed" is too far in one direction. We need moderation: highway robbery should sometimes be allowed.
    There's no statute against "highway robbery".  There are laws against robbery.  Apparently robbery can be justified, as illegals aren't charged for committing robbery in sanctuary cities.


    "Moderation" is a keyword for "I do not have a well developed position and cannot take a firm stance". I am quite unapologetic in my defense of property rights, and I do not believe that their violation in some cases should be allowed, and the idea that it should is just as abhorrent in my eyes as the above three statements.
    And most people agree with it, when it comes to what they see as "personal property". Few people will say that the government should sometimes be able to just take your car away from you, because it has some economical need or something.

    "Moderation" is a key word for acknowledging that nothing is ever black and white, that there are always shades of gray.

    10% of Americans (~34 million) support asset seizure.  About twice that number support the government allowing illegals to steal your property, as sanctuary cities have about 20% support.  Roughly 70 million is not a number to just dismiss. 

    It is too bad that people do not understand that businesses are just as much a personal property as a car. Facebook is not a "public square" or anything; it is a property of its shareholders. What they do with it is up to them. They should be free to ban conservatives, they should be free to ban gays, they should be free to ban Christians, they should be free to ban Muslims, they should be free to ban women - anyone they like. And people who do not like it are free not to use their services, just like people who do not like you, CYDdharta, do not get to tell you how to run your home. You do with your property whatever you please.

    It is too bad that you do not understand that Facebook is a public platform, not simply a private business.  They receive special immunities and privileges as a public platform.  The reason they have those special immunities and privileges is to foster free speech on their platform.  If they were subject to the same laws and rules as every other media company, I'd agree with you, but should a government sponsored facility be free to ban anyone they want?  Should a homeless shelter be free to ban black people?





  • @Happy_Killbot

    Yes we've experienced the consequences of the authoritarian Democrat Party's affirmative action, their so called non discrimination laws to protect only their special interest groups, the monopolies now being created in our corporations.

    We on the Right hate it and only now have been forced to demand fairness against these monopolies.

    What you are doing, AS ALWAYS, is giving the Left a pass and judging those on the Right for finally being forced to do what Democrats have been doing for decades.
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfen
  • @MayCaesar

    You never answered me. Would you like our utility companies denying you electricity because of your political beliefs?
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfen
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4216 Pts   -  
    @We_are_accountable ;
    We on the Right hate it and only now have been forced to demand fairness against these monopolies.
    The right is the reason these companies exist and are allowed to do that in the first place, don't you get it? Privatization is the reason that these companies can do what they do, you did this.

    The right protects the option of these companies to kick off whoever they want, whenever they want, for any reason they see fit. That isn't a violation of the 1st Amendment.

    Seriously, can you explain what "right wing economics" is all about, or are you too propagandized to understand and articulate even that?
    What you are doing, AS ALWAYS, is giving the Left a pass and judging those on the Right for finally being forced to do what Democrats have been doing for decades.
    No $4!t Sherlock, by saying that companies should have restrictions: You are the "Authoritarian leftist" now aren't you?

    If you don't want these tech monopolies to "censor" your speech, then you should support public infrastructure by refusing to vote for Republican candidates who actively sabotage it, don't believe me look at Texas right now...
    CYDdhartaWe_are_accountablePlaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    "Justifiable homicide" is not murder, consensual sex is not rape by definition (and laws that classify it as such are self-contradictory), and someone not being charged for robbery does not make robbery legal.
    Do you agree that murder, rape and robbery should sometimes be allowed?
    Let us take it a step further: should robbery of your home sometimes be allowed? Not too often; let us say, once every 2 years? Better not be too far in one direction on this one!

    Truth and false, logic and illogic, identity and contradiction - these are pretty black and white. Seeing shades of grey in them indicates to me lack of desire to think.

    "Public platform" or not, Facebook is a private organization. If it enjoys some special protection and privileges due to its status, then it should have them revoked. And if there are restrictions put on what services it can or cannot agree or refuse to provide to consensual individuals, then those should be revoked too - and new ones should never be invoked.
    A homeless shelter absolutely should be free to ban black people, or any other people that it chooses to. That would kind of go against the purpose of this shelter in the first place, but, hey, if it is privately owned, then it is up to its owners to decide who to let or not let in.


    @We_are_accountable

    I would not "like" it, but it is its right, assuming that it is privately-owned (and in my view, all companies should be privately-owned).
    In the US most utility companies are nationalized or semi-nationalized. When that is the case, then the company should serve all taxpayers, so the argument does not apply. Again, I would love to see them all fully privatized, and then they are free not to serve me if they choose to do so.

    I would hope, however, that in a civilized culture most companies would not be so petty as to deny someone service over their political views - for one, because politics would not play a major role in such society to begin with. Politics is seen as a big deal in the US because the government has its claws everywhere here. But if the government was properly restricted to several basic functions and did not stick its nose anywhere else, then my political views would not be of much interest to most people, as they would be pretty inconsequential, and then it is unlikely that many people would refuse to trade with me over it.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1425 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    @CYDdharta

    "Justifiable homicide" is not murder, consensual sex is not rape by definition (and laws that classify it as such are self-contradictory), and someone not being charged for robbery does not make robbery legal.
    Do you agree that murder, rape and robbery should sometimes be allowed?
    Let us take it a step further: should robbery of your home sometimes be allowed? Not too often; let us say, once every 2 years? Better not be too far in one direction on this one!

    Truth and false, logic and illogic, identity and contradiction - these are pretty black and white. Seeing shades of grey in them indicates to me lack of desire to think.

    "Public platform" or not, Facebook is a private organization. If it enjoys some special protection and privileges due to its status, then it should have them revoked. And if there are restrictions put on what services it can or cannot agree or refuse to provide to consensual individuals, then those should be revoked too - and new ones should never be invoked.
    A homeless shelter absolutely should be free to ban black people, or any other people that it chooses to. That would kind of go against the purpose of this shelter in the first place, but, hey, if it is privately owned, then it is up to its owners to decide who to let or not let in.

    Let us take it a step further: should you have to serve dinner to people who just show up on your doorstep?  Not too often; let us say, once every 2 years? Better not be too far in one direction on this one!

    IF the laws are changed and Facebook's special privileges and immunities are removed, then, and only then, would you have a valid point. 
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfen
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3702 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    Well, to be moderate, I would have to say that you do have to serve dinner to them every now and then. Not too often, but not too rare either. Once every 2 years sounds reasonable.
    But then, I do not want to be moderate; you do.

    No, I do not think that existence of bad laws validates introducing more bad laws. This is the kind of logic that leads to the government growing uncontrollably. Better to have one bad law, than a gazillion bad laws trying to balance each other.
  • Why not politics?

    A more perfect union can be filed grievance set against civil claims of prejudice.
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