Less than half of the Democrat's 1.9 TRILLION stimulus package is for Covid!

Happy_Killbot

Imagine looking at that list and thinking: "Huh, all of this spending that will ultimately help society, especially for the underprivileged is bad, and we shouldn't do that"

Some people are so out of touch that they just won't let you help them out.

MayCaesar

Uh... have you just woken up, mate? The total US national debt is near $28 trillion, with little to show for all the spending. Ever since the Republican Bush Jr the debt has been skyrocketing, and even Donald Trump who you are so enamored with did nothing to change the trend, signing two sweeping "stimulus" packages containing many of completely irrelevant to COVID proposals - with applause from his loyal supporters.

The idea of "spending taxpayers' money into prosperity" is not new to Washington, and has been the predominant economical paradigm over there since the beginning of the 20th century. If you think that Biden, or Democrats in general, are doing something special, then you have not been paying attention.

As for "liberal democrat" cities... As bad as California is, the most rundown areas in the US I have ever been to were the rural areas in southern Mississippi. That looked a complete disaster, with people living in almost third-world conditions, with broken wooden fences and rusty cars in every backyard. I had never seen such rundown areas since leaving Russia back in 2014 and until driving through that apocalyptic place.

No, I am lying. There is one place that is even more rundown in the US. It is the Slab City, in Cali. Now that is a dump alright...
Okay, Cali wins the competition!

AlofRI

I looked over the Biden Stimulus Package. It looked COMPLETELY different from your "interpretation".

$400B for arresting the spread of Covid and to assist families needing direct financial support (Keep them from losing their home, cars, etc.
$440B in emergency funds for cash-poor small businesses and communities.
$1,400 in stimulus checks .... which goes directly back into the economy.
Expands Unemployment Insurance by $100, bringing it up to $400 (which also immediately goes back into the economy.), and increases the child tax credit to $3000 per child ... helps in the longer run.
It also wants to implement emergency paid sick leave, family and medical leave, stabilize child care centers with 25B in emergency funding and forestalls Covid-related evictions.
It also proposes $400B to boost vaccine infrastructure with specific focus on increasing the number of community vaccine distribution and testing locations.
$170B to update K-12 schools to begin in-class instruction.
Millions of students COULD receive an additional $1700 in financial assistance where necessary.
Finally, $15B to go directly to 1M small businesses to keep them afloat.

NOTHING about "Arts and Humanities, museums, Silicon Valley, Climate change, family planning or Obama-care! FAKE NEWS!

Some people_should_be_held_accountable for spreading lies. 

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

FAKE NEWS!

IGNORE

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar

Try addressing the debate and I might respond. All you did is whataboutism.

People like you who turn a blind eye are the reasons these corrupt politicians get away with it.

We_are_accountable

@AlofRI

Try watching Fox news to get some facts instead of the biased Leftwing news you obviously listen to.

xlJ_dolphin_473

Less than half of the Democrat's 1.9 TRILLION stimulus package is for Covid!

How is this a debate? That is a simple fact, not a debate topic. What are we meant to be debating about here, @We_are_accountable?

We_are_accountable

@xlJ_dolphin_473

LOL, are you for real?

Read the words and formulate an opinion to agree or disagree. Do you possess a normal brain wth the cognitive ability to recognise how payback to political donors works? Can you coherently put your thoughts to words and thereby sharing said thoughts?

If so it is called debating!

One more time... do you think it is ok for Politicians to pass a Covid stimulus Bill, whereby most of the money goes to other Leftwing agendas? Do you think it is ok to hold hostage stimulus money for hurting Americans, just so they can payback political donors?

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

Quite the opposite: I said that this is a part of a bigger trend. It is not whataboutism; it is generalization.

You say, "group X is corrupt". I say, "groups X and Y are both corrupt". Yet it is me who "turns a blind eye" on corrupt politicians? Something does not add up here, amigo.

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar

Both sides are corrupt, but one side wallows in that corruption non stop.

There will never be a perfect political Party, but there are far differences between perfection, and dictatorships. Democrats are the authoritarian thought police and moving our nation in a very dangerous direction.

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

I am skeptical that the difference between the parties is that big in that respect. It used to be big a few years ago, but everyone suddenly bowing to horrible Trump's ideas exposed them for who they truly were, harboring these ideas in their minds for a long time - and finally letting them out, once they saw that speaking them out became acceptable.

The Democrats are more authoritarian than the Republicans, but it is not like 99% authoritarian vs 1% authoritarian, and more like 70% authoritarian vs 50% authoritarian.

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar

You said... harboring ideas in their minds? What ideas from Trump? Loving America? Protecting our Borders? Decimating ISIS? Cutting our taxes? Holding other nations accountable to pay their fair share in America's military protection? Standing up to China's corruption and human right's violations? Standing up to corruption in the United Nation and WHO? Bringing our troops home from never ending Middle Eastern wars? Making America energy independent?

I can only hope these ideas are now forfront in Republican's minds.

It sounds like you have been swallowing all the Leftwing biased news accusing Trump of being racist, homophobic, hating women, hating Muslims, hating legal immigrants, etc. etc.
These are purely deceptive distorted lies that they have spewed since before Trump was elected. Trump stopped Muslim immigration from highly terroristic Muslim nations! He allowed Muslim immigrations from safer nations with less chance of terrorists coming to America.

Remember how Trump was supposedly in collusion with Russia? NO EVIDENCE! Pure rumors and distorted lies.
Remember how a simple phone call to Ukraine President was suppose to be some huge scandal? NO EVIDENCE! Pure rumors and distorted lies.

Impeach Impeach Impeach, and people like you must actually believe the lies.

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

If protecting your borders means violating my free movement right, if decimating ISIS means that I have to fund your expensive military campaigns, if cutting taxes comes together with growing budgets, if "holding other nations accountable" means breaking up trade agreements, if standing up to China's corruption manifests in becoming a guest of the dictator and shaking his hands with smiles and warm words, if standing up to corruption in the UN and WHO amounts to loud words and no action - then screw all this.

I do not read "leftwing biased news", and there is plenty of nonsense there as well. What you are saying is nonsense too. Nonsense is everywhere, which is precisely my point.

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar

I agree, nonsense is everywhere and you just gave us a lot of it.

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

But then, your latest comment is also nonsense... There is no escape from this circle of hell, my friend.

Oh, and this comment is not an exception either.

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar

I always give facts when showing the authoritarian nature of the Democrat Party. You give me no facts in showing how the GOP is authoritarian.

I give you facts of what Trump's priorities have been, and what he has accomplished. You give me no facts to prove your insults towards him. There is nothing wrong with putting America first when it comes to his policies. It is something I and 74 million voters admire him for.

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

Those are not facts: to figure out what Trump's priorities have been, you would have to dig in his brain.

I have not insulted Trump once. I have only been criticizing him. Conflating criticism with insults is one of the clearest indicators of a personality cult.

What does it mean to "put America first"? Does it imply that individuals living in America are put second?

xlJ_dolphin_473

@We_are_accountable
What I am saying is that you should write your debate titles in question form, or at least allow it to be a debatable topic. Your debate title is a fact: that less than half of the COVID-19 stimulus bill is for COVID-19. There is no room for debate here: one cannot argue with facts. What you could do is something like this:

Is it justifiable that less than half of the COVID-19 stimulus bill is for COVID-19 relief?

You may notice that some of your debate titles have been retroactively changed to questions, such as your one on Catholics and pro-life faith. You seem to be writing your debates as big long arguments: but it should either be a question or a debatable statement. That is all.

We_are_accountable

@xlJ_dolphin_473

Ok, so you want me to play Jeapordy and put my debates in a form of a question.

Here is an example...

We_Are_Accountable, it is your turn to pick a category...
I pick...Politics for 1.9 TRILLION.
They constantly pander to their big corporate campaign donors and are using emergency Covid relief to pay them back?
Ding!
Who is the Democrat Party?
100% CORRECT!

We_Are_Accountble, you have won Jeapordy and the biggest winner of all time!!!!
Thank you all!

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar

Trump told the voters his priorities BEFORE getting elected. He then did what he told us he would do! No one had to dig into his mind. He actually gave us a list of the very people he would appoint to the Supreme court before getting elected. Never done by any other President!

Putting America first is putting the people in America first...

He no longer forced Americans to pay for abortions in other nations, or at Planned Parenthood!
He made our nation energy independent which lowered the cost of gasoline and heating fuel, giving Americans more money to enjoy life.
He lowered our taxes, helping working Americans to enjoy life.
He decimated ISIS strongholds and VOILA, far fewer terrorist attacks in our nation.
He stopped possible Muslim terrorists, from terrorist friendly nations, from coming to America. He did allow Muslims from safe nations.
He got us out of international climate change accords that unfairly targeted American businesses over our enemies.
He got us out of WHO because they are in bed with China and refused to hold them accountable for Covid.
He helped force other nations to pay, what they said they would pay, for American military protection.
He protected Americans from illegal immigration, drug trafficking, child trafficking, etc, etc.
He brought American troops home to their families.
He fought for our right to own guns so we can protect ourselves from Democrat weakness on crime.

I could go on and on. This is just some of what putting America first looks like.

AlofRI

With 76% of Americans agreeing on the 1.9T package .... including 60% of conservatives, where did your "America First" policy go??  Or does "America First" only fit a special minority of certain people ... known as T****ers!?

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

So, wait. If there are two Americans, then which one of them is put first? What if one American wants to trade with the Chinese and another does not? Does it not follow that the latter is put before the former?
It sounds like there is more to this than you let on.

You cannot "put a country first" or "put a people first". It does not make sense: a country or a people is an abstraction, it is not a living unit.
In practice, it always means that you put some individuals before others.

We_are_accountable

@AlofRI

We all know why people like you support Democrats... FREE STUFF!

Of course people will support some bill that gives them thousands of dollars for doing nothing. Democrats have been running our nation bankrupt for decades with their sick political strategy of buying votes.
First these authoritarian Democrats force businesses to shut down, then they want tax payers to bail their cities out from the lost tax revenue. Fools!

Conservatives do not support the pork in this Bill!

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar


Putting a nation first means doing whatever possible to protect the nation from those who would do us harm. Every nation has fools who could not care less about Chinese corruption and human right's violations. WHO CARES what idiots think?

There is no pleasing everyone in a nation, but there is such a thing as fighting to protect a nation from those who would harm it. Democrats are acting like they hate America. They are in bed with all the corruption from nations like China, Iran, Mexico, etc.
They long ago sold us out for their special interest groups, and their socialist ideology.

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

Who is "us" then, if there is no pleasing everyone? Is "us" those who agree with the president? Is it some majority? Is it some other group. Am I a part of "us"?

See, "putting a nation first" is a poorly defined concept, because the nation is comprised of individuals, and different individuals have different interests. People never really explain who it is they put first. It seems that they put first some abstract idea of a nation and are willing to sacrifice interests of the individuals to that idea. It is pure collectivism and tribalism.
All those people jumping under tanks with grenades, "dying for the motherland" - are they dying for someone? They would say then, "I am dying for my wife", or "I am dying for my friends from the church I used to go to every Sunday", or something else. But no, they cannot define who it is they are dying for - and is it really a "who", or a "what"? Sounds like it is the latter, but then, again, what exactly is the nation if not people living in it?

No, buddy, all of this makes as little sense as socialism. In reality, there are individuals with their own interests, and "putting a nation first" means putting interests of some of these people before others. What if I have a friend in China who I am doing international business with? The tariffs that are supposed to "protect" America (from what, mutually beneficial trades?) make our business harder to do. Both me and my friend dislike the Chinese government and just want to trade as free human beings. But both the Chinese and the American government are taxing us into oblivion, and each blames the other side: "They started it". 

How does any of this put America first, and what is America, again, if not me and other people like me? Is it just a chunk of land painted some color on the map? Then it is worthless, and should be put last, not first.

AlofRI

We_are_accountable said:

@AlofRI

We all know why people like you support Democrats... FREE STUFF!

Of course people will support some bill that gives them thousands of dollars for doing nothing. Democrats have been running our nation bankrupt for decades with their sick political strategy of buying votes.
First these authoritarian Democrats force businesses to shut down, then they want tax payers to bail their cities out from the lost tax revenue. Fools!

Conservatives do not support the pork in this Bill!

WE know nothing is free, we pay our taxes .... and most of us FAR more than $750! What WE want is a chance to use some of the money we paid in when we are hurting! That money doesn't "belong to the government", it's OURS! We sent it to them to invest in making OUR lives better and safer ... health-wise and financially! Their DUTY is to do JUST THAT! NOT spread it around, un-watch-dogged, so it could be scoffed up by those with the knowledge of just how to do it! Over 50 new billionaires after Rump's big "handout"! 

"Thousands of dollars for doing nothing"?? How is dying "doing nothing"? How is losing your home "doing nothing"?? How is watching your family and friends die "doing nothing"?? How is watching your business collapse "doing nothing"?? How is driving your hard-earned BMW, Lexus, Caddie to a food line and burning gas you can't really afford any more "doing nothing"?? "IT'S OUR MONEY AND WE NEED IT NOW!" (as some wealthy capitalist used to say.;-)

Yes. Cities ... and the country ... lost a LOT of tax revenue under the last regime. By the way, how many times was "Infrastructure Week" cancelled by "Hisoner"?? (I left the h out purposely because he a ONE-R :-) Me, myself and I! ONE sure thing, the authoritarian billionaires didn't "lose out" on any tax revenue while he ran our country closer to bankruptcy! (The small business part :-) Didn't he say "I just made you guys a lot richer!"?

How is watching R/W Senators tweet and text when they should be doing serious work "doing nothing"?? OH! It actually IS! I'd LOVE to give those Senators some free "pork"! Conservatives haven't been around since 2016. It's those that wouldn't-couldn't stop the big-spending of the REAL "porker"! 

John_C_87

WE know nothing is free, we pay our taxes .... and most of us FAR more than $750! What WE want is a chance to use some of the money we paid in when we are hurting! That money doesn't "belong to the government", it's OURS! 
Did you know it is not your money?
Did you know money is a banking receipt?
A large portion of the budget spending of a registered receipt is made on service going to now pay a basic increase cost on minimum labor mandated. It is not the best state of the union to be made it is not the worst to be made. Again the basic idea is to spend to expand an economy, over the basic idea of diversifying risk and cost to expand the economy. Drive a larger wheel with the same power it begins to go and slower, and slower till one day it looks like it stopped.

MichaelElpers

@AlofRI. I'm confused.  You state we pay more than $750 into the government, showing dissatisfaction with the amount the benefits we get from the government, even when they've spent 28 trillion dollars more than we've given them.  Your solution is to vote for people who want to increase taxes and government overall?  I don't follow the logic.

If it our money, just advocate for smaller government and taxes and it won't ever even switch hands.  You'll get to use your money the way you want.  Welcome to the liberaterian party.

Happy_Killbot

@MichaelElpers ;

Me Libertarian! Public sector bad!

It's really simple why someone would want to increase government size/spending: It gets them more money and resources in the long run.

Think about it this way, building roads and putting street lamps on them is a very pricey and high-risk endeavor, so most individuals and companies are not equipped to both take the risk and organize the resources to build this infrastructure. If they are competing with other companies, then their ability to do that effectively is limited by competition which lowers the price. For roads and other public utilities, there is often no legitimate way to obtain profits back. Consider the difficulty involved in quantizing and obtaining a profit for something like a street lamp, if you are building a private road it doesn't really make sense to build them at all because it provides little return on your investment in that it doesn't have a major effect on your bottom line, yet street lamps provide enormous safety benefits for drivers.

This in turn means that everyone can enjoy public roads which have a positive effect on individuals by giving them means to transportation, and safer through things like street lamps which means fewer accidents and deaths. Welcome to any rational social organization.

If you are worried about the national debt, maybe you should be voting for politicians who seek to reduce government spending and keep taxes high.

AlofRI

That $750 was what Rump paid in taxes the last few years. He cost U.S. well over a million every time he played golf ... and most of THAT went into HIS business. Why do you think he played so much golf? The National Debt wouldn't be so high if he'd played less golf ... and wasted less money on a ridiculous "WALL"!

But then, in Rump's defense, Just before he took office he paid out a $20,000,000 fine for duping Americans out of their savings with his "University and his "charity". He was forced to close out his "charity" for using its funds for portraits of himself, for refurbishing a hotel fountain, and paying off a $1,000,000 golf bet (among other personal things like porn stars and other trysts), that after his casino was cited 106 times for money laundering. He's a crook that has cost the country a lot of money in "investigative fees". Surely he (and his ilk) can spare some money for the "little people".

MichaelElpers

@Happy_Killbot. Maybe if all you wanted was infrastructure we have an agreement, but that's not true is it.

Alofri was the one saying that the government wasn't using our tax dollars effectively. Complained he wantd his money back.

MichaelElpers

@AlofRI. No trump did not pay that in taxes, he had prepaid.

Trump cost the U.S. in investigative fees?  What about the 2 year Russia waste and 2 impeachment, 1 occuring after he was already gone.

Also you didn't not address my point in any way.  Just when directly to orange man bad when I never even brought up trump.

Happy_Killbot

@MichaelElpers ;

Maybe if all you wanted was infrastructure we have an agreement, but that's not true is it.

Alofri was the one saying that the government wasn't using our tax dollars effectively. Complained he wantd his money back.

Sounds to me that he is arguing that we have paid our tax dollars, now they need to go to public goods & services, i.e. stimulus checks that help struggling Americans instead of corporate welfare. Not strictly infrastructure, but still derived from the same idea.

MichaelElpers

@Happy_Killbot. Well he specifically was pointing to the stimulus check.  But it still doesn't make sense that you'd want to give the government more money when your arguing that they haven't been using your money right.

Also if you haven't noticed we are 28 trillion dollars in debt, so not only are you arguing they've spent your money wrong but they've overspend 28 trillion and your still unsatisfied. I'd argue that is ineffective 

Happy_Killbot

@MichaelElpers ;

Well he specifically was pointing to the stimulus check.  But it still doesn't make sense that you'd want to give the government more money when your arguing that they haven't been using your money right.

It does make sense when you take into account the wealth delta between the rich and the poor.

Also if you haven't noticed we are 28 trillion dollars in debt, so not only are you arguing they've spent your money wrong but they've overspend 28 trillion and your still unsatisfied. I'd argue that is ineffective 

Making the government smaller doesn't decrease the amount of money that the government needs to borrow to stay solvent. The only way to do that, is to increase taxes when the economy is strong, and decrease them in times of scarcity. Trump did exactly the opposite of this, and that really hurt our country.

MichaelElpers

@Happy_Killbot. That still doesn't make sense.

Yes decreasing the size of government does decrease the amount it needs to stay solvent...it's lowering cost

Happy_Killbot

@MichaelElpers ;

Yes decreasing the size of government does decrease the amount it needs to stay solvent...it's lowering cost

It's counter intuitive, but it is the case that spending more on government actually increases the amount of tax revenue up to a point.

Basically, public resources allow companies to utilize those resources to make a profit, and this in turn makes them more economical. Think about a company like Amazon, they rely heavily on both roads and the USPS to run their business. So, if this public infrastructure has it's funding cut, then the companies have to absorb the costs and this makes them less competitive resulting in lower profits and therefore less taxes. If the government increases spending on public goods and services, then it means that companies and individuals can become more competitive and produce more goods & services with a higher quality. This is good for everyone because it means that companies benefit by making a profit and individuals benefit with healthier lives and more products and services at their disposal. The government benefits by collecting a higher tax from this increased economic activity, which is why the budget deficit goes up less when Democrats are in office and more when Republicans are in office.

Does that make sense now?

MichaelElpers

@Happy_Killbot. No that doesn't make sense.  Again your acting like our government is so small currently that we don't even put money towards infrastructure.  Currently it's way overblown.
Amazon doesn't have to rely on USPS, private companies like FedEx and UPS can do it, and I'd argue more effectively.

I'm talking about healthcare, free college education, subsidies, worthless studies, pointless institutions, ect. If you want to argue that government should only be used for infrastructure and national protection I'd agree to that because that is very limited government compared to today.  There is obviously a point where the government is too big otherwise start arguing it should take all of our money. 

Alorfi was complaining that he deserves a check from the government because that is his money.  Either he agrees with you that government spending on public goods is a good thing, meaning his money has been spent (no complaining) or he should complain and ask for lower taxes so he could do what he wants with that money in the first place.  You can't have it both ways.

LukeMessick

Who is paying for the stimulus, there isn't enough people in work to pay for a stimulus. the money comes from our tax dollars. So if not enough people are paying taxes then who is paying for it. 

Happy_Killbot

@MichaelElpers ;

No that doesn't make sense.  Again your acting like our government is so small currently that we don't even put money towards infrastructure.  Currently it's way overblown.
Amazon doesn't have to rely on USPS, private companies like FedEx and UPS can do it, and I'd argue more effectively.

The USPS still need to exist, because the ability to send mail is critical maintaining freedom and democracy.

Amazon happens to be the USPS's biggest customer. If the private companies could do it cheaper, they would use them instead.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/17/amazon-was-the-usps-largest-customer-in-2019-internal-docs-show.html

I'm talking about healthcare, free college education, subsidies, worthless studies, pointless institutions, ect. If you want to argue that government should only be used for infrastructure and national protection I'd agree to that because that is very limited government compared to today.  There is obviously a point where the government is too big otherwise start arguing it should take all of our money. 

All of those things are very good for the economy and will increase tax collection.

Consider: healthcare means that everyone spends less for healthcare related costs, which means more money in their pockets to spend in the economy.
Free college education means that there are more high-tech high paying jobs, creating a wider middle and upper class which contribute more to tax revenues.
"worthless" studies don't exist. The scientific endeavors directly contribute to the economic viability of a country by providing vital information that companies and private industry can exploit to create new products and services.
"pointless" institutions (like churches) might not contribute directly to society, but public institutions are still going to provide a boon to society.

Alorfi was complaining that he deserves a check from the government because that is his money.  Either he agrees with you that government spending on public goods is a good thing, meaning his money has been spent (no complaining) or he should complain and ask for lower taxes so he could do what he wants with that money in the first place.  You can't have it both ways.

That's kind of the point of taxes, it is your money so you get to benefit from it, but it needs to be enforced because if people "cheat" they are effectively stealing from everyone else who contributes. If you want to know his position on this, just ask him about that specifically, I can't answer for him.

CYDdharta

LukeMessick said:

Who is paying for the stimulus, there isn't enough people in work to pay for a stimulus. the money comes from our tax dollars. So if not enough people are paying taxes then who is paying for it. 

We're all going to pay for this gift to Dementia Joe's handlers, but it'll be our progeny that will foot the bill.

MichaelElpers

@Happy_Killbot

Amazon gets deals with he USPS that it shouldn't be getting.  I wouldn't say they are cheaper when they are operating 66 billion dollars in the hole.

For all of your public goods you are assuming the government does things cheaper, which I disagree with.

We_are_accountable

@AlofRI

We give taxes to Government for miltary and othe essential functions... NOT SUPPORTING YOU OR ANYONE ELSE FROM CRADLE TO GRAVE!

Responsible people are suppose to save for a rainy day not expecting tax payers to bail them out. You act like the vast majority of Government dependents have paid taxes all their lives. LOL, most of them pay no taxes after all the earned imcome credits, and low income.

Democrats are the party of socialism and no matter how you try to spin it, they are buying low income votes with other people's money!

Democrats are the Party of the Rich donors who gave them hundreds of millions to win the election. Stop with your ludicrous claims of the GOP being in bed with the Rich.

The Rich gave Trump crumbs compared to Democrats! Stop watching CNN and get some facts!