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Being a human animal and having a soul, do you think all animals do?

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Being a human animal and having a soul, do you think all animals do?

 

“  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/mary.html

The Saviour answered and said, 'He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind which [is] between the two - that is [what] sees the vision...'”

 

 

I do not usually begin with definitions, but it seemed appropriate here.

 

The definition of a soul in Gnostic Christianity seems to have it being the conduit that connects all souls to the godhead.

 

Our souls are dormant until activated by our own consciousness, and are not used except for apotheosis and other spiritual and mystical personal telepathic events.  

 

Mind is us in total.

Spirit is life force.

We live, then think, then report for judgement.

The few who are pre-judged here, the reborn, have already been judged innocent.

Some Christians, mostly of the right-wing persuasion, are insulted when described as an animal.

Apologies in advance for not agreeing.


I think DNA produces souls in all sentient life. I am not sure about vegetable life.


Regards

DL

Antiliberal
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  • maxxmaxx 557 Pts   -  
    I think it was luther of the early church who used to wonder about that, however if humans have a soul, then it is not an individual soul. what you call life force may simply be a type of energy( for lack of a better word) that permates the entire universe and filters through every single thing, giving life to what is biological. So what is capbple of life, such as matter that is biological , such as what is capable of growth, will become alive just like when we give electrical power to radios, televisions and so on.  @GnosticChristian
    GnosticChristianZeusAres42
  • Starlord616Starlord616 358 Pts   -  
    well i don't believe that any animal (human or otherwise) has hat can be defined as a soul @GnosticChristian
    GnosticChristianPlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • maxxmaxx 557 Pts   -  
    perhaps the debate is "if" humans have a soul then do animals have one as well.@Starlord616
    Starlord616GnosticChristianPlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
    perhaps the debate is "if" humans have a soul then do animals have one as well.@Starlord616
    There are many ways to phrase. Being French likely effects how I phrase things.

    Regards
    DL
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    IF HUMANS HAVE A SOUL ,WHAT IS IT?@GnosticChristian
    GnosticChristian
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    mickyg said:
    IF HUMANS HAVE A SOUL ,WHAT IS IT?@GnosticChristian
    Let me repeat from the O P.

    "The definition of a soul in Gnostic Christianity seems to have it being the conduit that connects all souls to the godhead."

    Others have other views, usually incorporating a more corporeal component while others see a more ghost like future for us.

    All definitions will be seen as wrong by the other theories. Theories here, meaning, as yet to be proven as law, the way evolution has. 

    Do you have a soul in your ideology?

    Regards
    DL

  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian
    There is no such thing as a soul anywhere past being a metaphor for something that is abstract.
    Religious followers are vain enough to think (or be convinced) that they have or are an indescribable, invisible, indestructible being renting some flesh and bones during their tenancy here on Earth. I have found that they do get stuck on the subject of animals though. After all, we now know that we are of the same physical flesh and blood as animals and are in fact, animals ourselves, having descended from the same common ancestors. If religious folk expect to be taken seriously, they can at least give credit to all other living creatures as having souls. Maybe they just don't wish to relish the idea that when they do eventually live in their luxury condo in paradise, they will have to deal with thousands of dog souls running over and crapping on their heavenly manicured lawns.
    GnosticChristian
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -   edited March 24
    Swolliw said:
    @GnosticChristian
    There is no such thing as a soul anywhere past being a metaphor for something that is abstract.
    Religious followers are vain enough to think (or be convinced) that they have or are an indescribable, invisible, indestructible being renting some flesh and bones during their tenancy here on Earth. I have found that they do get stuck on the subject of animals though. After all, we now know that we are of the same physical flesh and blood as animals and are in fact, animals ourselves, having descended from the same common ancestors. If religious folk expect to be taken seriously, they can at least give credit to all other living creatures as having souls. Maybe they just don't wish to relish the idea that when they do eventually live in their luxury condo in paradise, they will have to deal with thousands of dog souls running over and crapping on their heavenly manicured lawns.

    I think it quite hard to be taken seriously by people when you show a belief in talking serpents and donkeys, ; yet so many, the majority, do hold some kind of foolish supernatural belief.

    A hunch, material dualism, as nature intended, I applaud. A belief without proof, I deplore.

    Religion Has No Earthly Purpose, So Why Do We Cling to It? | Reza Aslan | Big Think - YouTube

    Given that we are contributing to our own extinction, --- thinking more universally, in terms of our kinship and souls to all animals , --- might be a good idea.

    Regards
    DL
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1385 Pts   -  
    This debate seems to be prefaced on the assumption that humans have a soul. Evidence, please? And even if we don't have evidence, what part of the human condition necessitates the existence of some kind of soul? To me, it seems like a superstitious belief which stems from religion.
    GnosticChristian
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  

    xlJ_dolphin_473 said:

    This debate seems to be prefaced on the assumption that humans have a soul. Evidence, please? And even if we don't have evidence, what part of the human condition necessitates the existence of some kind of soul? To me, it seems like a superstitious belief which stems from religion.
    Humans having souls is the premise, yes.

    I defined it in Gnostic Christianity as seeming to have it being the conduit that connects all souls to the godhead. A telepathic connection. 

    Christians might have a different and more ghostlike view. IDK as Christian beliefs are all over the map. 

    The only evidence that can exist is in the mind of the one who knows the reality of telepathy and his contact. My first contact called it an assault.

    If you have read the various theologies and ideologies, you will know that all the sages and shaman, including Jesus, indicated that many are called, but few do the work of opening their minds through fasting, meditation and work.

    Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

    --------


    Your "what part of the human condition necessitates the existence of some kind of soul?" is an interesting question.

     I have listened to a couple of things that have prompted my question. The short answer is that we instinctively are pushed to do so.

    Religion Has No Earthly Purpose, So Why Do We Cling to It? | Reza Aslan | Big Think - YouTube

    "Princess Alice is watching you" Experiment - YouTube

    Tell me my friend, do you have substance dualism, that posits you have a body and something else?

     I know for a fact that I am. I just do not know whose mind I touched. I felt like a cosmic consciousness.

    Regards
    DL




  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -   edited March 29

    A Living Human is: a flesh physical body + an invisible spirit = living soul

     

    A Dead Human is no more a soul: a flesh  physical body -  a spirit = a decaying body on earth and a spirit living in hell or heaven.

     

    Yes, animals are living souls.  They have a physical body with a spirit.  When an animal dies, it has a spirit that lives on.

    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -   edited March 29
    @GnosticChristian

    Those 'God foreknew' are the Jews.  God foreknew the Jews before the Gentiles, because He had a relationship with the Jews, not 'foreknew' as in before life on earth, as if there was such a thing.
    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:

    A Living Human is: a flesh physical body + an invisible spirit = living soul

     

    A Dead Human is no more a soul: a flesh  physical body -  a spirit = a decaying body on earth and a spirit living in hell or heaven.

     

    Yes, animals are living souls.  They have a physical body with a spirit.  When an animal dies, it has a spirit that lives on.

    Where is heaven and hell, and why do you believe they exist?

    The interesting question is, do you see our souls and those of the animals we have eaten and abused as communicating with us in heaven or hell?

    Regards
    DL
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    @GnosticChristian

    Those 'God foreknew' are the Jews.  God foreknew the Jews before the Gentiles, because He had a relationship with the Jews, not 'foreknew' as in before life on earth, as if there was such a thing.
    That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.

    Regards
    DL
  • TreeManTreeMan 172 Pts   -  
    I’m going to say a couple things. Firstly, religion is actually beneficial for a society, especially one in the past, as having Gods persuades people to do good deeds and don’t break the law, as they believe a supernatural, almighty being would punish them, sending them to somewhere like hell. It also gives a reason for the king to make laws, as he can say that god wants this, god doesn’t want this, etc. This doesn’t mean god exists, I am simply stating a fact. How many large societies and civilisations do you know of that are atheist and survived for long? However, right now, we are educated enough to know why our laws are there, and A’s a result, understand the importance of having these laws. Therefore, there is no longer a benefit, or at least a much smaller one, from believing in God.

    Furthermore, what makes humans so different to animals? We always deem ourselves more important, but so does any other creature. This trait is incredibly useful for survival. However, we have developed complex enough societies and no longer need to worry about whether we will live another day(in most cases, that is).
    As a result, we are dropping this trait more and more, which is clearly a beneficial thing, as we are more willing to help others. 

    This trait is the reason that we believe we are inherently superior to other living beings. So, back to the question: do humans and animals both have a soul? Long answer short: yes, but some have a bigger soul dependent on how we define a soul. Is it a measure of one’s emotion, or one’s intelligence? Or is it something else? What is a soul? We need to answer that fundamental question before anything else.

    GnosticChristian
  • TreeManTreeMan 172 Pts   -  
    BTW I do not want to spark another debate about whether god exists, as most debates often end up as. 


    GnosticChristianLiamThePerson
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TreeMan said:
    I’m going to say a couple things. Firstly, religion is actually beneficial for a society, especially one in the past, as having Gods persuades people to do good deeds and don’t break the law, as they believe a supernatural, almighty being would punish them, sending them to somewhere like hell. It also gives a reason for the king to make laws, as he can say that god wants this, god doesn’t want this, etc. This doesn’t mean god exists, I am simply stating a fact. How many large societies and civilisations do you know of that are atheist and survived for long? However, right now, we are educated enough to know why our laws are there, and A’s a result, understand the importance of having these laws. Therefore, there is no longer a benefit, or at least a much smaller one, from believing in God.

    Furthermore, what makes humans so different to animals? We always deem ourselves more important, but so does any other creature. This trait is incredibly useful for survival. However, we have developed complex enough societies and no longer need to worry about whether we will live another day(in most cases, that is).
    As a result, we are dropping this trait more and more, which is clearly a beneficial thing, as we are more willing to help others. 

    This trait is the reason that we believe we are inherently superior to other living beings. So, back to the question: do humans and animals both have a soul? Long answer short: yes, but some have a bigger soul dependent on how we define a soul. Is it a measure of one’s emotion, or one’s intelligence? Or is it something else? What is a soul? We need to answer that fundamental question before anything else.

    That is why I put my definition in the O.P.

    If you are not a believer or religious, I am surprised you believe in souls in other animals.

    That aside, what are your thought on meeting those you ate in some heaven or hell?

    "How many large societies and civilisations do you know of that are atheist and survived for long?"

    Atheism has always been with us and the reason it did not thrive is the inquisitions and jihads that destroyed them.

    Quite the endearing quality that eh?

    Regards
    DL
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  

    TreeMan said:
    BTW I do not want to spark another debate about whether god exists, as most debates often end up as. 


    I too dislike those debates because there is no end to the useless things you can say for a god who hides in the supernatural.

    My focus, when I can led, is morals.

    I think that those are what should be important and not whether god is androgynous like Yahweh was before Christianity took the feminine out of him or the Trinity concept they stupidly posit.

    Regards
    DL

  • TreeManTreeMan 172 Pts   -  
    Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that if humans had a soul, why shouldn’t animals have them? I do not believe in the existence of souls, though. We are only a more advanced species, with a more capable brain. However, koko the gorilla is predicted to have an IQ of 90-100, similar to that of an average human. Would Koko have a soul then? The gorilla also has an EQ similar to that of humans. Whales even have a greater EQ, as they have a brain part that specially processes emotions, something humans lack.  
    @GnosticChristian
    GnosticChristian
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -   edited March 30
    GnosticChristian said: That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    God knows everyone's heart, but the Bible tells us that God knows us on a personal level when we have a personal relationship with Him.  We have a personal relationship with Him when we do what He says and speak to Him.
    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    Hell is where all those spirits are of people who are like minded in the way they lived their life in sin and beliefs they held..  If a person is without God in their life and lived their life sinning, then they will be in a place without God and with others like them.
    I believe when one is in heaven they will see animals.   Jesus is the Rider on the white horse in Revelation.  He is on a horse and in heaven.  


    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -   edited March 30
    TreeMan said: BTW I do not want to spark another debate about whether god exists, as most debates often end up as.  @TreeMan


    You want to discuss?  Then why not discuss what I said about the soul? 

    Again, a soul is just a human who is alive, and an animal that is alive.
    A soul is a human and animal that is alive.  A living body is one with a physical body with its own spirit.
    When one dies, they leave behind their physical body, but are now only spirit with all their same emotions and thoughts and feelings they had while they lived on earth in their body.  The spirit is see through being without a physical body.

    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • DeeDee 3865 Pts   -  
    @TrueLove

     The spirit is see through being without a physical body.

    Really? How do you prove that?
    GnosticChristian
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TreeMan said:
    Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that if humans had a soul, why shouldn’t animals have them? I do not believe in the existence of souls, though. We are only a more advanced species, with a more capable brain. However, koko the gorilla is predicted to have an IQ of 90-100, similar to that of an average human. Would Koko have a soul then? The gorilla also has an EQ similar to that of humans. Whales even have a greater EQ, as they have a brain part that specially processes emotions, something humans lack.  
    @GnosticChristian
    I agree that if we have a soul, there is no reason to say other animals do not.

    I disagree with your notion that humans do not have  a part of us that processes emotions. You and I know love from hate and that says we have what you say we lack.

    Regards
    DL
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    God knows everyone's heart, but the Bible tells us that God knows us on a personal level when we have a personal relationship with Him.  We have a personal relationship with Him when we do what He says and speak to Him.
    Who do you know that has claimed such communication with the supernatural god?

    I agree that we should seek apotheosis, but I know of no one that has made such a claim other than myself.

    Have you had your apotheosis?

    Regards
    DL
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    @GnosticChristian

    Hell is where all those spirits are of people who are like minded in the way they lived their life in sin and beliefs they held..  If a person is without God in their life and lived their life sinning, then they will be in a place without God and with others like them.
    I believe when one is in heaven they will see animals.   Jesus is the Rider on the white horse in Revelation.  He is on a horse and in heaven.  


    We need to define sin here I think?

    Is it a sin to adore a genocidal god and his homophobic and misogynous religions?

    Regards
    DL

  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    TreeMan said: BTW I do not want to spark another debate about whether god exists, as most debates often end up as.  @TreeMan


    You want to discuss?  Then why not discuss what I said about the soul? 

    Again, a soul is just a human who is alive, and an animal that is alive.
    A soul is a human and animal that is alive.  A living body is one with a physical body with its own spirit.
    When one dies, they leave behind their physical body, but are now only spirit with all their same emotions and thoughts and feelings they had while they lived on earth in their body.  The spirit is see through being without a physical body.

    Jesus, it is said, rose bodily into heaven. Thomas even touched the risen Jesus.

    If a soul is just a human, why bother calling us a soul and gumming up definitions?

    Regards
    DL 
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    Dee said:
    @TrueLove

     The spirit is see through being without a physical body.

    Really? How do you prove that?
    Good question.

    Spirit is generally seen as life force.

    Gave up the ghost, is often used to show death.

    Soul is usually defined in other ways.

    Regards
    DL
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    Dee said:  How do you prove that?


     @Dee

    Have you ever seen a ghost or know of anyone who has, or have you ever had an out of body experience?


    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    GnosticChristian said: TreeMan said: Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that if humans had a soul, why shouldn’t animals have them? I do not believe in the existence of souls, though. We are only a more advanced species, with a more capable brain. However, koko the gorilla is predicted to have an IQ of 90-100, similar to that of an average human. Would Koko have a soul then? The gorilla also has an EQ similar to that of humans. Whales even have a greater EQ, as they have a brain part that specially processes emotions, something humans lack.  @GnosticChristian I agree that if we have a soul, there is no reason to say other animals do not.I disagree with your notion that humans do not have  a part of us that processes emotions. You and I know love from hate and that says we have what you say we lack.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    Hi DL,

    I just want to say again that we don't 'have' a soul---we are a soul.


    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    so the soul is just you
    nothing special from god?  @TrueLove
    GnosticChristian
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    GnosticChristian said: TrueLove said: GnosticChristian said: That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian God knows everyone's heart, but the Bible tells us that God knows us on a personal level when we have a personal relationship with Him.  We have a personal relationship with Him when we do what He says and speak to Him. Who do you know that has claimed such communication with the supernatural god?I agree that we should seek apotheosis, but I know of no one that has made such a claim other than myself.Have you had your apotheosis?RegardsDL @GnosticChristian


    That is a good question.  I would say I don't go around doing signs and miracles all the time and saying things previously unknown but from God; therefore, I would not call myself a 'god', but a child of God, for sure.

    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    GnosticChristian said:We need to define sin here I think?Is it a sin to adore a genocidal god and his homophobic and misogynous religions?RegardsDL @GnosticChristian
    Sin is anything that hurts you or another for no good reason.
    God had good reason to kill people.  As for homosexuals, God is still kind to them on earth.  As for misogynous, it is men who treated women in such a way.  

    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TreeMan said: Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that if humans had a soul, why shouldn’t animals have them? I do not believe in the existence of souls, though. We are only a more advanced species, with a more capable brain. However, koko the gorilla is predicted to have an IQ of 90-100, similar to that of an average human. Would Koko have a soul then? The gorilla also has an EQ similar to that of humans. Whales even have a greater EQ, as they have a brain part that specially processes emotions, something humans lack.  @GnosticChristian I agree that if we have a soul, there is no reason to say other animals do not.I disagree with your notion that humans do not have  a part of us that processes emotions. You and I know love from hate and that says we have what you say we lack.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    Hi DL,

    I just want to say again that we don't 'have' a soul---we are a soul.


    Do you call yourself a soul when filling out forms or a human.

    Define human and define soul and see the difference.

    The dictionary might help here.

    Regards
    DL 


  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TrueLove said: GnosticChristian said: That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian God knows everyone's heart, but the Bible tells us that God knows us on a personal level when we have a personal relationship with Him.  We have a personal relationship with Him when we do what He says and speak to Him. Who do you know that has claimed such communication with the supernatural god?I agree that we should seek apotheosis, but I know of no one that has made such a claim other than myself.Have you had your apotheosis?RegardsDL @GnosticChristian


    That is a good question.  I would say I don't go around doing signs and miracles all the time and saying things previously unknown but from God; therefore, I would not call myself a 'god', but a child of God, for sure.

    The question was on god talking to us, not who we are in relationship to god.

    Can you do signs and miracles? Have you heard anything previously unknown?

    Regards
    DL

  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    GnosticChristian said:Jesus, it is said, rose bodily into heaven. Thomas even touched the risen Jesus.If a soul is just a human, why bother calling us a soul and gumming up definitions?RegardsDL  @GnosticChristian

    Jesus did go to heaven in his body that was raised from the dead.  Humans don't get to do that because we will not have an immortal body until the time of the resurrection of the dead.

    I thought the same thing before...why is it so confusing and why do we have the word 'soul' at all when we can just say 'human' and 'spirit'.  I think because there has to be a dividing area maybe for a deeper understanding.  We have a body on this earth that lives and will die, but we will get it back one day.  It is our spirit that makes our body alive, and our spirit lives on after our dead body.  


    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -   edited March 30
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TreeMan said: Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that if humans had a soul, why shouldn’t animals have them? I do not believe in the existence of souls, though. We are only a more advanced species, with a more capable brain. However, koko the gorilla is predicted to have an IQ of 90-100, similar to that of an average human. Would Koko have a soul then? The gorilla also has an EQ similar to that of humans. Whales even have a greater EQ, as they have a brain part that specially processes emotions, something humans lack.  @GnosticChristian I agree that if we have a soul, there is no reason to say other animals do not.I disagree with your notion that humans do not have  a part of us that processes emotions. You and I know love from hate and that says we have what you say we lack.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    Hi DL,

    I just want to say again that we don't 'have' a soul---we are a soul.


    Do you call yourself a soul when filling out forms or a human.

    Define human and define soul and see the difference.

    The dictionary might help here.

    Regards
    DL 


    The dictionary was written by people who did not really have understanding about God.  That goes for Bible dictionaries too.   One has to be careful with meanings given by scholars from certain denominations, it is biased.  Mr. Strong wrote a big concordance, but he also was in a denomination that taught falseness.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -   edited March 30
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said:Jesus, it is said, rose bodily into heaven. Thomas even touched the risen Jesus.If a soul is just a human, why bother calling us a soul and gumming up definitions?RegardsDL  @GnosticChristian

    Jesus did go to heaven in his body that was raised from the dead.  Humans don't get to do that because we will not have an immortal body until the time of the resurrection of the dead.

    I thought the same thing before...why is it so confusing and why do we have the word 'soul' at all when we can just say 'human' and 'spirit'.  I think because there has to be a dividing area maybe for a deeper understanding.  We have a body on this earth that lives and will die, but we will get it back one day.  It is our spirit that makes our body alive, and our spirit lives on after our dead body.  


    You make many assumptions based on faith and not on facts that are knowable.

    Strange that you would think a Jesus with a human body has been greeting bodiless souls in heaven all these years.

    Why would god wait to give us bodies when Jesus gets his from the get go?

    As to the use of the words, do you not recognize, from your own words, that you are discarding the deeper understanding for your simplistic one?

    Shall we try for the deeper meaning?: Gnostic Christians did and devised a better way to look at what a human really is.  

    Regards
    DL 
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TreeMan said: Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that if humans had a soul, why shouldn’t animals have them? I do not believe in the existence of souls, though. We are only a more advanced species, with a more capable brain. However, koko the gorilla is predicted to have an IQ of 90-100, similar to that of an average human. Would Koko have a soul then? The gorilla also has an EQ similar to that of humans. Whales even have a greater EQ, as they have a brain part that specially processes emotions, something humans lack.  @GnosticChristian I agree that if we have a soul, there is no reason to say other animals do not.I disagree with your notion that humans do not have  a part of us that processes emotions. You and I know love from hate and that says we have what you say we lack.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    Hi DL,

    I just want to say again that we don't 'have' a soul---we are a soul.


    Do you call yourself a soul when filling out forms or a human.

    Define human and define soul and see the difference.

    The dictionary might help here.

    Regards
    DL 


    The people who write dictionaries don't all have the right information about God.   
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 569 Pts   -   edited March 30
    @GnosticChristian

    Religion Has No Earthly Purpose, So Why Do We Cling to It?

    Now this is an interesting question.

    I would not be so quick to determine that religion has no Earthly purpose. As much distaste as I have for the "alternative" right, one of the few reasonable points I've heard put forward from that camp is that much of western civilisation has developed out of Judeo-Christian history and/or moral values. The Catholic Church might well have been irrational and brutal in its heyday, but I think it would be unfair to suggest it did no good either.

    I do not think we should undervalue the comfort and peace of mind religion brings to a lot of people. 

    That said, what we also have to remember is that a lot of the (particularly monotheistic) religions work to actively convert non-believers. Historically, non-believers have also been killed by these groups for refusing to join. This suggests that natural selection may have worked against the non-believers, since they haven't really been actively seeking to convert or murder those with religious beliefs in return.

    GnosticChristian
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TreeMan said: Sorry if my post was confusing. I meant that if humans had a soul, why shouldn’t animals have them? I do not believe in the existence of souls, though. We are only a more advanced species, with a more capable brain. However, koko the gorilla is predicted to have an IQ of 90-100, similar to that of an average human. Would Koko have a soul then? The gorilla also has an EQ similar to that of humans. Whales even have a greater EQ, as they have a brain part that specially processes emotions, something humans lack.  @GnosticChristian I agree that if we have a soul, there is no reason to say other animals do not.I disagree with your notion that humans do not have  a part of us that processes emotions. You and I know love from hate and that says we have what you say we lack.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    Hi DL,

    I just want to say again that we don't 'have' a soul---we are a soul.


    Do you call yourself a soul when filling out forms or a human.

    Define human and define soul and see the difference.

    The dictionary might help here.

    Regards
    DL 


    The people who write dictionaries don't all have the right information about God.   
    What makes you think you do?

    Regards
    DL
  • Keal192NXQ2Keal192NXQ2 240 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian It's understandable that personal experiences are just so difficult to explain and so difficult to reject; it's our own experience, we essentially know. However, even if you've seen a perfectly valid and true observation, you can't expect people to just believe in it without evidence. 
    GnosticChristian
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TrueLove said: GnosticChristian said: That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian God knows everyone's heart, but the Bible tells us that God knows us on a personal level when we have a personal relationship with Him.  We have a personal relationship with Him when we do what He says and speak to Him. Who do you know that has claimed such communication with the supernatural god?I agree that we should seek apotheosis, but I know of no one that has made such a claim other than myself.Have you had your apotheosis?RegardsDL @GnosticChristian


    That is a good question.  I would say I don't go around doing signs and miracles all the time and saying things previously unknown but from God; therefore, I would not call myself a 'god', but a child of God, for sure.

    The question was on god talking to us, not who we are in relationship to god.

    Can you do signs and miracles? Have you heard anything previously unknown?

    Regards
    DL

    I think when you used the word 'apotheosis' it threw me off from what you wanted me to think about.

    I have had an audible conversation with Jesus before.  I might have helped heal someone through touch before.  


    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian It's understandable that personal experiences are just so difficult to explain and so difficult to reject; it's our own experience, we essentially know. However, even if you've seen a perfectly valid and true observation, you can't expect people to just believe in it without evidence. 
    That is a good point.  People's personal experience help themselves, and only sometimes another who is apt to believe them, because they know the person and know if they are prone to saying things that might not be true.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    Religion Has No Earthly Purpose, So Why Do We Cling to It?

    Now this is an interesting question.

    I would not be so quick to determine that religion has no Earthly purpose. As much distaste as I have for the "alternative" right, one of the few reasonable points I've heard put forward from that camp is that much of western civilisation has developed out of Judeo-Christian history and/or moral values. The Catholic Church might well have been irrational and brutal in its heyday, but I think it would be unfair to suggest it did no good either.

    I do not think we should undervalue the comfort and peace of mind religion brings to a lot of people. 

    That said, what we also have to remember is that a lot of the (particularly monotheistic) religions work to actively convert non-believers. Historically, non-believers have also been killed by these groups for refusing to join. This suggests that natural selection may have worked against the non-believers, since they haven't really been actively seeking to convert or murder those with religious beliefs in return.

    I agree that there is both good and evil in religions.

    The 5,000 years of war history, given that the religious have been the vast majority till lately, indicates that they are more evil than good as they do not provide peace.

    The fact that they are still homophobic and misogynous should tell all moral people just how evil they still are.

    I have also read that the religious are more happy and live slightly longer. That might just be because they express so much hate, that it becomes a stress reliever.

    It likely does the opposite for the gays and women that they discriminate against without  just cause.

    Strange that those who hate without a just cause live longer.

    I will pass on living longer as I prefer to live a moral life.

    Regards
    DL
    Nomenclature
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    GnosticChristian said:  What makes you think you do?RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    Something powerful happened to me after I started searching for God.  I wanted only His Truth and not man's truth.  When Jesus saved me, I was given understanding, and I believe he looks after me from believing falseness, at least doesn't let me keep believing in something false for too long.  It doesn't mean he always just gives me the answers, because I do study greatly.  

    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian It's understandable that personal experiences are just so difficult to explain and so difficult to reject; it's our own experience, we essentially know. However, even if you've seen a perfectly valid and true observation, you can't expect people to just believe in it without evidence. 
    I agree. 

    My apotheosis was such a thing. I mention it to some but do not expect belief.

    Most sages and religions know that many are called but only the few of us ever gain enlightenment.

    The ancients who were not good enough Christians could have used a guy like you arguing against the inquisitions that were often used, along with mass murder,  to solve the understanding problem of their theology based on a loving mass murdering genocidal god.

    Christians are way too much like their vile god.

    Regards
    DL
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 189 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TrueLove said: GnosticChristian said: That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian God knows everyone's heart, but the Bible tells us that God knows us on a personal level when we have a personal relationship with Him.  We have a personal relationship with Him when we do what He says and speak to Him. Who do you know that has claimed such communication with the supernatural god?I agree that we should seek apotheosis, but I know of no one that has made such a claim other than myself.Have you had your apotheosis?RegardsDL @GnosticChristian


    That is a good question.  I would say I don't go around doing signs and miracles all the time and saying things previously unknown but from God; therefore, I would not call myself a 'god', but a child of God, for sure.

    The question was on god talking to us, not who we are in relationship to god.

    Can you do signs and miracles? Have you heard anything previously unknown?

    Regards
    DL

    I think when you used the word 'apotheosis' it threw me off from what you wanted me to think about.

    I have had an audible conversation with Jesus before.  I might have helped heal someone through touch before.  


    I had a telepathic contact that lasted maybe 6 seconds and threw me to the ground in tears. It produced what some call a paradigm shift. It is basically going from a Jesus mind to a Christ mind.

    What insight did you learn that could be strong enough to have you adore a genocidal Yahweh and Jesus and honor their homophobic and misogynous church?

    Regards
    DL




  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -  
    GnosticChristian said: Keal192NXQ2 said: @GnosticChristian It's understandable that personal experiences are just so difficult to explain and so difficult to reject; it's our own experience, we essentially know. However, even if you've seen a perfectly valid and true observation, you can't expect people to just believe in it without evidence.  I agree. My apotheosis was such a thing. I mention it to some but do not expect belief. Most sages and religions know that many are called but only the few of us ever gain enlightenment.The ancients who were not good enough Christians could have used a guy like you arguing against the inquisitions that were often used, along with mass murder,  to solve the understanding problem of their theology based on a loving mass murdering genocidal god.Christians are way too much like their vile god.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian

    ...but the Catholic religion has so much falseness and is nothing like what Jesus taught...so no wonder the Catholics had an Inquisition.  
    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 135 Pts   -   edited March 30
    TrueLove said:
    TrueLove said:
    GnosticChristian said: TrueLove said: GnosticChristian said: That would mean that god's knowledge base changed to know the Gentiles at some other point in time, and scriptures say that god never changes, as he knew all that there was to know at all points in time.RegardsDL @GnosticChristian God knows everyone's heart, but the Bible tells us that God knows us on a personal level when we have a personal relationship with Him.  We have a personal relationship with Him when we do what He says and speak to Him. Who do you know that has claimed such communication with the supernatural god?I agree that we should seek apotheosis, but I know of no one that has made such a claim other than myself.Have you had your apotheosis?RegardsDL @GnosticChristian


    That is a good question.  I would say I don't go around doing signs and miracles all the time and saying things previously unknown but from God; therefore, I would not call myself a 'god', but a child of God, for sure.

    The question was on god talking to us, not who we are in relationship to god.

    Can you do signs and miracles? Have you heard anything previously unknown?

    Regards
    DL

    I think when you used the word 'apotheosis' it threw me off from what you wanted me to think about.

    I have had an audible conversation with Jesus before.  I might have helped heal someone through touch before.  


    I had a telepathic contact that lasted maybe 6 seconds and threw me to the ground in tears. It produced what some call a paradigm shift. It is basically going from a Jesus mind to a Christ mind.

    What insight did you learn that could be strong enough to have you adore a genocidal Yahweh and Jesus and honor their homophobic and misogynous church?

    Regards
    DL




    The experience you had sounds very interesting.  I don't usually ever share my experience because the few times I did the response wasn't what I thought should happen.

    As for you saying you went from a Jesus mind to a Christ mind...  Christ would not say say a thing about God that you do.  God had people die for a good reason.  

    It seems that homosexual relations has strong impact to you in your life because you have brought it up many times to me already.  God teaches that sex isn't love, but is only to be done with one you become one with, as long as the both shall live.  The man's body was made for the woman's, and vice versa.  
    GnosticChristian
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
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