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Can Theists Be Trusted?

Debate Information

On face value, given that theists have a reputation of lying and deceiving more than any other groups in society, one would have to say "No". But then, that would be a bit too judgmental since there are varying degrees of religiosity.

  * Most people who say that they believe in God give their religion no more than lip service. You would consider these people as being no more or no less trustworthy than anyone else in mainstream society.

  *  Those who do sincerely believe in God however, are clearly deluded so that not only do they believe in lies and misinformation, they will invariably think and speak in such ways in order to justify their absurd beliefs (whether they be religious or otherwise).
(Delusion:[dɪˈluːʒ(ə)n] NOUN an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.)

  *  
Religion was originally devised by those in authority to exercise control over the masses, the doctrines in religious texts reflect the political mood of the times in which they were written. Nowadays of course, there are very few religious governments in power. In modern, civilised society, anyone preaching such hideously cruel and untrue doctrines can easily be categorised as untrustworthy and anyone with a modicum of good sense would not go near these people (preachers) with a barge poll.

Therefore, we could resonably conclude that, in order to determine whether someone is really a theist (and therefore more untrustworthy) one would need to ascertain whether or not that person firmly believes in God. Of those who say they are religious but are not really, we should check whether they are preachers or not.

LiamThePersonZeusAres42
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  • ThorThor 193 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw

    Can Theists Be Trusted?...

    LiamThePersonxlJ_dolphin_473ZeusAres42Keal192NXQ2JGXdebatePROStarlord616
    Peace 
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 569 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw

    On face value, given that theists have a reputation of lying and deceiving more than any other groups in society

    I don't think that is true at all. 

    LiamThePersonZeusAres42Starlord616
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 569 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw

    Religion was originally devised by those in authority to exercise control over the masses,

    That isn't true either. It was devised as a method of understanding reality in the absence of anything better. It was only hijacked by authority later.

    LiamThePersonZeusAres42Starlord616
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1385 Pts   -  
    I think it’s unfair to make a blanket statement about an entire group of people. The question is irrelevant, because there are a lot of theists, who presumably vary in trustworthiness, and so answering the question would require a useless blanket assertion.
    ZeusAres42NomenclatureKeal192NXQ2JGXdebatePRO
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    CHRISTIANS SAY JESUS WAS GOD
    jesus was asked when the end would come

    jesus said he did not know...THATS RIGHT their god said he did not know

    liars ....lunatics..or madmen.....as per CS LEWIS...@xlJ_dolphin_473
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    CHRISTIANS SAY JESUS WAS GOD
    jesus was asked when the end would come

    jesus said he did not know...THATS RIGHT their god said he did not know

    liars ....lunatics..or madmen.....as per CS LEWIS...@xlJ_dolphin_473
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    I WOULD HAVE TO SAY YOU ARE A MADMAN

    based off of your random outburst

    your outburst make no sense

    no one cares ....at all or listens....as per me@mickyg 
    Debater123
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    lets do a test run

    1.is jesus god ..YES or NO?/

    don't be scared jeffy

    yes
    no
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    @mickyg. YES!
  • anarchist100anarchist100 447 Pts   -   edited March 26
    @JeffreyBlankenship
    That's all well and good, but what's your evidence? Also does Christian God love Palestinians?
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    it was more of a joke lol
    @anarchist100
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100. But I will display evidence. mickyg has ignored arguments and made claims that are against historical evidence that has been given by me(theist)and others(atheists). Proving that he ignored logic and common sense. Thus making him delusional. AKA a madman.
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    ok jeffy

    2.was jesus at creation?
  • anarchist100anarchist100 447 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship
    What I was asking for was evidence that Jesus is God, also does Christian God love the Palestinians?
  • anarchist100anarchist100 447 Pts   -   edited March 26
    تحيا فلسطين
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    @mickyg. Yes.  

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. John 1:1-3
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100. Yes the bible tells us that Jesus is equal to God.

    As one who has been to palestine, its a broken country that needs a better government to give it more support and it needs better allies. God does love palestinians, He loves everyone. LONG LIVE PALESTINE?
    anarchist100
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    yes jesus has always existed...sure...

    3.did jesus know when he was hanging on the cross that i would ask this question,today ,now....?@JeffreyBlankenship
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    @mickyg. Yes 

    John 16:30
    Now we know that You know all things, and have no need for anyone to question You; by this we believe that You came from God.”


  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    ok..why did jesus say he did not know when the end would come??....@JeffreyBlankenship
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship. Sorry if what  said about palestine(what i presume to be your country)offends you. Thats just from what I see. I think Isreal and Palestine need to find a way to live in peace. Israel has more allies and a much stronger army that could overpower Palestine. I feel it best that palestine remains peaceful.
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    @mickyg. Because Jesus and God are together but also separate. The trinity can't be comprehended or explained by human words or logic. It is through faith that we believe. God the father knows but Jesus the son as the son does not know.
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 166 Pts   -  
    Speaking of His second coming, Jesus said, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father” (Matthew 24:36; cf. Mark 13:32). The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God (John 1:114), and we know that God is omniscient. So it seems strange that Jesus would say that He did not know when He would return.
    The key to understanding Jesus’ seeming lack of knowledge in this matter lies in the nature of the Incarnation. When the Son of God became a man, He remained fully God, but He also took on a true human nature. Jesus retained all the attributes of divinity, yet, as a man, He voluntarily restricted their use. This was part of the “self-emptying” or self-renunciation spoken of in Philippians 2:6–8. When Christ entered our world, He laid aside the privileges that had been His in heaven. Rather than stay on His throne in heaven, Jesus “made himself nothing” (as the NIV translates Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, “he gave up his divine privileges” (NLT). He veiled His glory, and He chose to occupy the position of a servant.
    There were times when Jesus publicly manifested His divine knowledge and power on earth (John 2:2511:43 –44). On those occasions, Jesus’ demonstrations of His divinity were directed by the Father. On other occasions, He had no such directive from the Father, and He kept His glory veiled. On all occasions, Jesus obeyed the Father’s will: “I always do what pleases him,” He said (John 8:29).
    So, when Jesus said He did not know when He would return, He was actively humbling Himself and taking the form of a servant (see Philippians 2:7–8). Since no other mortal knows the time of Jesus’ return—that information is the Father’s alone (Matthew 24:36)—Jesus voluntarily restricted His knowledge on that point. It was part of Jesus’ submission to the Father (see John 5:306:388:28–29) and His mission to live a human life.
    Some things Jesus apparently chose to “give up the rights” to be privy to during His earthly ministry. The knowledge of when He would return was one of those things. Jesus, now exalted in heaven, surely knows all, including the timing of His second coming.
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    YES...jesus did not know when the end would come
    proving he is not god
    such a simple religion to dismiss....@JeffreyBlankenship
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    when the end comes how many gods will we see?
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    if jesus knew at creation that i would ask you questions today THEN he knew he would be asked WHEN THE END WOULD COME..

    SO HE LIED

    EASY PEASY


  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -   edited March 27
    Philippians 2:7 (ESV) but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.the likeness but not manPHILLIPIANS2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    So "the christ"  "the messiah"  "the annointed one" dies on a cross.

    2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:god is happy .
    So he gives him the name jesus ....after he dies and goes to some heaven paul mentions.

    2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth

    ;2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father   @JeffreyBlankenship

    Yes PAUL says jesus was not on earth.
    i love phillipians
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -   edited March 27
    @Nomenclature
    I don't think that is true at all. 

    And, why don't you think that is true at all?
    I went to the trouble of qualifying the OP with properly researched, factual information.
    Perhaps you may wish to offer a valid reply in order to back up your claim.
    ZeusAres42
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature
    That isn't true either. It was devised as a method of understanding reality in the absence of anything better. It was only hijacked by authority later.

    I concede your point there and I should have qualified my definition with the word "organised".
    Religious institutions certainly took advantage of the profoundly superstitious nature of the common folk.
    Although the first recognised organised religion is Hinduism, many say that cave drawings indicate that the Australian Aboriginal "Dreamtime" religion dates back some 40,000 years. Whether it qualifies as "organised religion" or not is open to conjecture.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

     I think it’s unfair to make a blanket statement about an entire group of people.

    In which case you concur with my statement in the OP which was: * Most people who say that they believe in God give their religion no more than lip service. You would consider these people as being no more or no less trustworthy than anyone else in mainstream society. And: "But then, that would be a bit too judgmental since there are varying degrees of religiosity".

    For example, a recent federal census in Australia showed that less than 14% of Catholics regularly attend Church. I suspect that most people who call themselves "religious" enjoy the cultural aspects of their faith but would not necessarily believe in God.
    xlJ_dolphin_473
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @mickyg
    liars ....lunatics..or madmen.....as per CS LEWIS...

    There is no evidence to suggest that Jesus was any different to Jim Jones or David Korsh in claiming that he was the son of God. When it comes to religion I believe that there are those who lead (Christ, Jones, Koresh) and those who are led (naive, gullible, impressionable, vulnerable and weak people).
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship
    I WOULD HAVE TO SAY YOU ARE A MADMAN based off of your random outburst your outburst make no sense

    I fully researched the topic and properly qualified my statements which were neither "random" nor "outbursts".
    Perhaps you may wish to qualify your statements with reason, logic and evidence.
    A non-reply, of course will assume your concession to the informed and accurate OP.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship
    God does love palestinians, He loves everyone.

    Funny about that; according to the Bible, God killed 2,8 million people during the period in which the Bible was written. The same book quotes Satan as having killed 10 people. To date, more than 295 million people have been killed in the name of God.
    In 2019 alone, 14,000 innocent infants under the age of 5 years died each day.

    Yup, God sure loves everyone alright.
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    there actually was a KORESH AND JIM JONES
    JESUS IS A MYTH
    Swolliw
  •   *  Those who do sincerely believe in God however, are clearly deluded so that not only do they believe in lies and misinformation, they will invariably think and speak in such ways in order to justify their absurd beliefs (whether they be religious or otherwise).
    (Delusion:[dɪˈluːʒ(ə)n] NOUN an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.)

    Except the current reality is that a belief in a deity is an unfalsifiable concept that has not been contradicted by reality or rational argument. Should we trust you?




  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    christians think unfalsifiable means can't be proven false  rather than a requisite for proof...@ZeusAres42
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2004 Pts   -   edited March 27

    christians think unfalsifiable means can't be proven false rather than a requisite for proof.
    Edit. Whoops. I was too hasty.

    So yes, If I am now understanding you correctly I will say yes it is true that some Christians think that because God cannot be proven false he, therefore, must exist. This is, however, a fallacy of ignorance.







  • Sorry, I just edited my last post as it was a strawman on my part but unintentionally so. I was a little too quick to respond haha.





  • christians think unfalsifiable means can't be proven false rather than a requisite for proof.
    So yes, If I am now understanding you correctly I will say yes it is true that some Christians think that because God cannot be proven false he, therefore, must exist. This is, however, a fallacy of ignorance.



  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    when doing a logic test the premise must be shown to be false if conditions are met

    A hypothesis can’t be right unless it can be proven wrong

    https://blogs.stjude.org/progress/hypothesis-must-be-falsifiable/



    ZeusAres42
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42
    Except the current reality is that a belief in a deity is an unfalsifiable concept that has not been contradicted by reality or rational argument. Should we trust you?

    Most certainly because I always stick to the facts and thoroughly and objectively research my topics.
    The people you shouldn't trust are those who make things up and twist things around. Like, I mean, I met this mor...idi... I mean, person recently who said that he saw a green elephant with wings. I said, Hey, pull the other one, you're nuts" to which he replied, " well it is unfalsifiable so there." There certainly are a lot of loonies out there.
    ZeusAres42
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @mickyg
    christians think unfalsifiable means can't be proven false  rather than a requisite for proof

    Christians don't think at all which is why they make things up. The only thing they do think is that they can get away with their lunacy and that the sun shines from their orifices.
    ZeusAres42mickyg
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2004 Pts   -   edited March 28
    Swolliw said:
    @ZeusAres42
    Except the current reality is that a belief in a deity is an unfalsifiable concept that has not been contradicted by reality or rational argument. Should we trust you?

    There certainly are a lot of loonies out there.
    Indeed, like those Atheists who think a lack or absence of a belief in a deity is actually a position based on logical reasoning/rational argumentation. Very loonie people indeed!






  • Swolliw said:
    @mickyg
    christians think unfalsifiable means can't be proven false  rather than a requisite for proof

    Christians don't think at all which is why they make things up. The only thing they do think is that they can get away with their lunacy and that the sun shines from their orifices.
    Again, more silly blanket assertions. You're basically just the atheist equivalent to the theistic trolls we've had on here. 



  • Keal192NXQ2Keal192NXQ2 240 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw Theists can be trusted that they're doing their best in explaining their positions and not being intellectually dishonest. Lying, deceiving, purposeful misinterpretation is dishonesty. Being wrong (or right) is not being dishonest. 
    ZeusAres42
  • SwolliwSwolliw 786 Pts   -  
    @Keal192NXQ2
    Theists can be trusted that they're doing their best in explaining their positions and not being intellectually dishonest. 

    I think you are making up terminology in order to avoid the obvious. "Intellectual dishonesty"....come on. What is that supposed to mean....whatever you decide it means most probably.
    Let's stick to the facts and reason, shall we?
    Anyone who sincerely believes there is a God is deluded. Those who are deluded will talk of phenomena as if they actually exist and will invariably listen to and concoct lies in order to maintain their erroneous belief.
    Intellectually dishonest? Pull the other one will you?

    ZeusAres42
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2004 Pts   -   edited March 28
    @Swolliw Theists can be trusted that they're doing their best in explaining their positions and not being intellectually dishonest. Lying, deceiving, purposeful misinterpretation is dishonesty. Being wrong (or right) is not being dishonest. 
    Good luck trying to reason with someone who is apparently deluded it appears. @keal192NXQ2



  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  
    well which god is yours?
    there are zero eyewitness accounts of jesus so out goes christianity and islam

    any god has to explain the same thing .
    why does your god let 20,000 children starve to death every day
    Nomenclature
  • mickygmickyg 335 Pts   -  

    "For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?" (Rom. 3.7)

    christians believe lying can save souls

    @Keal192NXQ2
    Nomenclature
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 569 Pts   -   edited March 28
    mickyg said:
    christians think unfalsifiable means can't be proven false
    I'm not Christian, but that's exactly what unfalsifiable means brother.
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