Gay at birth?

Putin

Zelensky started being gay when the devil ate his soul.

just_sayin

There is no gay gene.  This has been scientifically proven.  Further, many of the genetic markers that some have put forward suggesting as that someone is born gay - appear in greater frequency in the heterosexual community.  There have been over 2 dozen genes, combination of genes, biological markers, and physical conditions suggested, yet none have met the threshold of provability.  The fact that identical twins can have different sexual orientations is an indicator that biology doesn't determine sexual orientation.  It is time to let this archaic theory die.

Joeseph

.
Your link is a pay to view article citing one person's view , have you any scientific peer reviewed papers backing your claims up?

 we can not stray away from our natural instincts.

Our only " natural  instinct " is to survive , we are hunter gatherers all our efforts are towards achieving that goal.

You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?

just_sayin

Joeseph said:

.
Your link is a pay to view article citing one person's view , have you any scientific peer reviewed papers backing your claims up?

 we can not stray away from our natural instincts.

Our only " natural  instinct " is to survive , we are hunter gatherers all our efforts are towards achieving that goal.

You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?

The 'article' was a massive study with almost a half a million participants - read here.  

From the link:

 the report finds that human DNA cannot predict who is gay or heterosexual. Sexuality cannot be pinned down by biology, psychology or life experiences

Search on 'No Gay Gene' and you'll find a lot of articles referencing the study.

An important point to make is that while many of these articles will still claim that there is some 'genetic relationship' for a small number of people, what you will really discover when you dig down in the information, is that it is often heterosexuals who have a greater percentage of these alleged markers than LGBTQ+ people, and that the standard used fails to meet the official minimum threshold to be considered a true marker.  

Most current studies show that sexual identify is fluid, especially among teens - See 

Sexual fluidity common among American young adults

Sexual identity fluidity, identity management stress, and depression among sexual minority adolescents

Study Highlights Fluid Sexual Orientation in Many Teens

That strongly suggests that sexual orientation is not determinate.

Joeseph

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC : JUST SAYIN IS ARGUING AGAINST POINTS I NEVER MADE .


Search on 'No Gay Gene' and you'll find a lot of articles referencing the study.

 I never mentioned a " gay gene" or made a case for one

I asked you ......You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?


You also need to read the article you're citing ........


Moreover, the researchers found that sexuality is polygenic — meaning hundreds or even thousands of genes make tiny contributions to the trait. That pattern is similar to other heritable (but complex) characteristics like height or a proclivity toward trying new things. (Things like red/green colorblindness, freckles and dimples can be traced back to single genes). But polygenic traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, But polygenic traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, meaning there’s no clear winner in this “nature versus nurture” debate.

ZeusAres42

Joeseph said:

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC : JUST SAYIN IS ARGUING AGAINST POINTS I NEVER MADE .


Search on 'No Gay Gene' and you'll find a lot of articles referencing the study.

 I never mentioned a " gay gene" or made a case for one

I asked you ......You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?


You also need to read the article you're citing ........


Moreover, the researchers found that sexuality is polygenic — meaning hundreds or even thousands of genes make tiny contributions to the trait. That pattern is similar to other heritable (but complex) characteristics like height or a proclivity toward trying new things. (Things like red/green colorblindness, freckles and dimples can be traced back to single genes). But polygenic traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, But polygenic traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, meaning there’s no clear winner in this “nature versus nurture” debate.

Joeseph

@ZeusAres42

The guy is hilarious,  every topic be holds forth on he constructs arguments no one is making and then sets about attacking them.

just_sayin

Joeseph said:

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC : JUST SAYIN IS ARGUING AGAINST POINTS I NEVER MADE .


Search on 'No Gay Gene' and you'll find a lot of articles referencing the study.

 I never mentioned a " gay gene" or made a case for one

I asked you ......You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?


You also need to read the article you're citing ........


Moreover, the researchers found that sexuality is polygenic — meaning hundreds or even thousands of genes make tiny contributions to the trait. That pattern is similar to other heritable (but complex) characteristics like height or a proclivity toward trying new things. (Things like red/green colorblindness, freckles and dimples can be traced back to single genes). But polygenic traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, But polygenic traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, meaning there’s no clear winner in this “nature versus nurture” debate.

Sigh.  I don't blame you for your ignorance.  There is some misdirection going on in some of the reports of the study.  2/3rds of all people who said they were LGBTQ+ had none of the polygenic markers to which you reference.  So, you can't say that for them there is any genetic evidence for their sexual orientation.  Further, and this is important you understand the difference, the study DID NOT SHOW that the 5 genetic markers show GENETIC DETERMINISM.  The claim was for GENETIC INFLUENCE.  There is a huge difference in scientific meaning. The study reported that “all tested genetic variants accounted for 8 to 25% of variation in same-sex sexual behavior”  Even though LGBTQ people  had one or more of these "genetic markers" in 33% of the group, however, more than 1/3 of all heterosexual people also had one or more of the genetic markers also, with 1 of the markers appearing in closer to 50% of heterosexuals.  That would make heterosexuals more genetically gay, than gay people based on the evidence of having the so called genetic markers.  That's a completely debunked and illogical notion.  That's why they can't say that any genetic marker or combination of markers is a clear indicator of same sex attraction - because  those genetic markers are more prevalent in heterosexual people.  

Joeseph

@just_sayin


ARGUMENT  TOPIC : JUST SAYIN STILL REFUSING TO ANSWER WHAT I SAID AND ACTUALLY ASKED WHICH REMAINS ........


 I never mentioned a " gay gene" or made a case for one

I asked you ......You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?





Sigh.  I don't blame you for your ignorance.

Yet the only one displaying ignorance ( as usual) is you. You cannot even comprehend the study you just posted and never even read the part stating what it said as in it was conducted on a sampling of individuals of European ancestry with no one from any other part of the globe represented.



  There is some misdirection going on in some of the reports of the study. 

Yes by you it's seems as you cannot comprehend what it actually says.

 2/3rds of all people who said they were LGBTQ+ had none of the polygenic markers to which you reference

What are the names of these people and print up their individual results ( watch him run folks) 

.  So, you can't say that for them there is any genetic evidence for their sexual orientation.  Further, and this is important you understand the difference, the study DID NOT SHOW that the 5 genetic markers show GENETIC DETERMINISM.  The claim was for GENETIC INFLUENCE.  There is a huge difference in scientific meaning. The study reported that “all tested genetic variants accounted for 8 to 25% of variation in same-sex sexual behavior”  Even though LGBTQ people  had one or more of these "genetic markers" in 33% of the group, however, more than 1/3 of all heterosexual people also had one or more of the genetic markers also, with 1 of the markers appearing in closer to 50% of heterosexuals.  That would make heterosexuals more genetically gay, than gay people based on the evidence of having the so called genetic markers.  That's a completely debunked and illogical notion.  That's why they can't say that any genetic marker or combination of markers is a clear indicator of same sex attraction - because  those genetic markers are more prevalent in heterosexual people.  


Hilarious , as I said before you haven't the ability to comprehend basic  science  so why pretend otherwise?

ZeusAres42

@just_sayin

I just glanced at these studies and others. I will look through more later. However, I don't know what your argument is based on them.  Other than that some things are not 'purely' biologically determined. 

just_sayin

ZeusAres42 said:

@just_sayin

I just glanced at these studies and others. I will look through more later. However, I don't know what your argument is based on them.  Other than that some things are not 'purely' biologically determined. 

The OP asked if someone is born gay.  My observation is that the scientific data suggests that sexual orientation is not biologically determinate at birth.  Sexual orientation appears to be fluid at least through the teen years.  That's the only point I have made.  

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@just_sayin

I just glanced at these studies and others. I will look through more later. However, I don't know what your argument is based on them.  Other than that some things are not 'purely' biologically determined. 

The OP asked if someone is born gay.  My observation is that the scientific data suggests that sexual orientation is not biologically determinate at birth.  Sexual orientation appears to be fluid at least through the teen years.  That's the only point I have made.  

So by saying sexual orientation is not biologically determined at birth and it appears to you to be fluid 'at least through the teen years', do you mean it's a choice?

Joeseph

@just_sayin


ARGUMENT  TOPIC : JUST SAYIN STILL REFUSING TO ANSWER WHAT I SAID AND ASKED WHICH REMAINS ........


 I never mentioned a " gay gene" or made a case for one

I asked you ......You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@just_sayin

I just glanced at these studies and others. I will look through more later. However, I don't know what your argument is based on them.  Other than that some things are not 'purely' biologically determined. 

The OP asked if someone is born gay.  My observation is that the scientific data suggests that sexual orientation is not biologically determinate at birth.  Sexual orientation appears to be fluid at least through the teen years.  That's the only point I have made.  

So by saying sexual orientation is not biologically determined at birth and it appears to you to be fluid 'at least through the teen years', do you mean it's a choice?

The evidence suggests that sexual orientation is not immutable.  Would it be harder for some people to 'change', sure.  The studies themselves suggest it is less likely for people to switch sexual orientations after their teen years.  

just_sayin

Joeseph said:

@just_sayin


ARGUMENT  TOPIC : JUST SAYIN STILL REFUSING TO ANSWER WHAT I SAID AND ASKED WHICH REMAINS ........


 I never mentioned a " gay gene" or made a case for one

I asked you ......You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?

 I never mentioned a " gay gene" or made a case for one

No worries, man.  I didn't think you made a case for anything.

I asked you ......You say being gay is " not natural" , living in a tree house is " not natural " so what makes something " natural"?

I didn't say anything about something being natural or not natural.  I just said there is no gay gene and that sexual orientation is said to be fluid at least through someone's teens.

Being gay you're claiming is a life style choice? Seriously?

I am claiming nothing other than what researchers are saying - that sexual orientation is not fixed.  'Choice' is a loaded term.  I don't think that someone whose orientation has been one way for some time can easily switch to another orientation.  However, there are no genetic reasons why it can't.

Joeseph

@just_sayin


No worries, man.  I didn't think you made a case for anything.

But I wasn't " making a case", I was laughing at you arguing with yourself as usual.



I didn't say anything about something being natural or not natural.  

Just Sayin resorts to his usual lyin by denying what he actually said .....Even though we have this, we can not stray away from our natural instincts.......


 just said there is no gay gene and that sexual orientation is said to be fluid at least through someone's teens.

No you didnt " just say" that , you said " we cannot stray from our natural instincts" yet our sexual orientation is fluid ........there you go arguing with yourself again by totally contradicting yourself.



I am claiming nothing other than what researchers are saying - that sexual orientation is not fixed. 

Wow! Reasearchers worldwide have agreed this , when ? Your " revelation " is going to come as a huge shock to the billions of majority of the worlds population who's sexuality remains fixed for life.

'Choice' is a loaded term.  I don't think that someone whose orientation has been one way for some time can easily switch to another orientation. 

How is it a " loaded term" ? But you just said its not fixed? What do you mean " easily switch" 

 However, there are no genetic reasons why it can't.

Wow! You're all over the place do you even know what you're trying to say?

just_sayin

Joeseph said:

@just_sayin


No worries, man.  I didn't think you made a case for anything.

But I wasn't " making a case", I was laughing at you arguing with yourself as usual.



I didn't say anything about something being natural or not natural.  

Just Sayin resorts to his usual lyin by denying what he actually said .....Even though we have this, we can not stray away from our natural instincts.......


 just said there is no gay gene and that sexual orientation is said to be fluid at least through someone's teens.

No you didnt " just say" that , you said " we cannot stray from our natural instincts" yet our sexual orientation is fluid ........there you go arguing with yourself again by totally contradicting yourself.



I am claiming nothing other than what researchers are saying - that sexual orientation is not fixed. 

Wow! Reasearchers worldwide have agreed this , when ? Your " revelation " is going to come as a huge shock to the billions of majority of the worlds population who's sexuality remains fixed for life.

'Choice' is a loaded term.  I don't think that someone whose orientation has been one way for some time can easily switch to another orientation. 

How is it a " loaded term" ? But you just said its not fixed? What do you mean " easily switch" 

 However, there are no genetic reasons why it can't.

Wow! You're all over the place do you even know what you're trying to say?

Dee said:
Even though we have this, we can not stray away from our natural instincts.

Those are not my words.  You get that right?  I didn't make a claim about gay being natural or unnatural.  I haven't even made a claim in this thread about gayness being moral or immoral.  I have only pointed you to the science, which apparently offends you.

 we cannot stray from our natural instincts" yet our sexual orientation is fluid 

I did point out that sexual orientation is said to be fluid by researchers.  I did not say we cannot 'stray from out natural instincts'.  

Wow! Reasearchers worldwide have agreed this , when ? Your " revelation " is going to come as a huge shock to the billions of majority of the worlds population who's sexuality remains fixed for life.

Yes, researchers world wide have agreed with the fact that there is no gay gene and that sexual orientation is fluid, especially in teens.  I appealed to science, you appealed to whatever the opposite of science is.   I sited Harvard, the National Institutes of Health, and NC State University.  You cited no science sources, per your usual SOP.

Sexual fluidity common among American young adults

Sexual identity fluidity, identity management stress, and depression among sexual minority adolescents

Study Highlights Fluid Sexual Orientation in Many Teens

How is it a " loaded term" ? But you just said its not fixed? What do you mean " easily switch" 

There is no known fat gene.  Though the evidence for one seems stronger than for a gay gene.  But just because there is no fat gene, doesn't mean it is easy to get a fat person to change their orientation and be thin.  Change is not just about biological issues.  In the same way, just because you aren't biologically wired to some predetermined choice, doesn't mean that you will be able to easily change your behaviors.  

Joeseph

@just_sayin


Science done correctly doesn't offend me , you posting nonsense and calling it science does.

I did point out that sexual orientation is said to be fluid by researchers. 

No, some researchers may claim this but they are in the minority.



Yes, researchers world wide have agreed with the fact that there is no gay gene and that sexual orientation is fluid, especially in teens.  

Nonsense , some researchers may agree with your new agey sexual orientation nonsense but they are in the minority....... never had you a bible thumper down for this nonsense ,are  you still identifying as male?

But I never said anything about gay genes you said sexual orientation is fluid., yet the evidence regarding the worlds population clearly proves that's utter nonsense.


 I appealed to science, you appealed to whatever the opposite of science is.   I sited Harvard, the National Institutes of Health, and NC State University.  You cited no science sources.

But you're arguing with yourself , I still didn't  mention a gay gene.

There is no known fat gene.  Though the evidence for one seems stronger than for a gay gene

There you go arguing about gay genes again, who are you arguing with?

just_sayin

Joeseph said:

@just_sayin


Science done correctly doesn't offend me , you posting nonsense and calling it science does.

I did point out that sexual orientation is said to be fluid by researchers. 

No, some researchers may claim this but they are in the minority.



Yes, researchers world wide have agreed with the fact that there is no gay gene and that sexual orientation is fluid, especially in teens.  

Nonsense , some researchers may agree with your new agey sexual orientation nonsense but they are in the minority....... never had you a bible thumper down for this nonsense ,are  you still identifying as male?

But I never said anything about gay genes you said sexual orientation is fluid., yet the evidence regarding the worlds population clearly proves that's utter nonsense.


 I appealed to science, you appealed to whatever the opposite of science is.   I sited Harvard, the National Institutes of Health, and NC State University.  You cited no science sources.

But you're arguing with yourself , I still didn't  mention a gay gene.

There is no known fat gene.  Though the evidence for one seems stronger than for a gay gene

There you go arguing about gay genes again, who are you arguing with?

I think you have confused me for the OP for some of your claims.  

The studies from Harvard, the National Institutes of Health, and NC State are about how sexual identity is fluid in teens.  You once again failed to provide the links to research that prove your claim that most researchers believe that people are born gay.  How long do we have to wait for you to provide the evidence?

ZeusAres42

Hmm, perhaps they couldn't find a gay gene amongst the happy gene, the coffee addict gene, the shopaholic gene, the sad gene, the angy gene, and all the other individual genes that denote each characteristic of the human condition? @just_sayin

MayCaesar

Your premise appears wrong. There is no such thing as "organism's goal in life": "goals" are human-made concept. There is the general tendency of evolution to preserve genetic mutations that perpetuate survival of the species and discard those compromising it - and since homosexuality is relatively common in humans, it would suggest that homosexuality contributes to survival of the species.

just_sayin

ZeusAres42 said:

Hmm, perhaps they couldn't find a gay gene amongst the happy gene, the coffee addict gene, the shopaholic gene, the sad gene, the angy gene, and all the other individual genes that denote each characteristic of the human condition? @just_sayin

I think you are right.  

I think the notion of a gay gene is politically driven for some to find it and some to deny it.  The more mature thing though is to try and determine what is true and what is not.

Joeseph

@just_sayin

You once again failed to provide the links to research that prove your claim that most researchers believe that people are born gay

But wait up I'm still waiting for you to prove your claims regarding sexual orientation being a choice?

Also I'm waiting for you to prove the majority of researchers agree with you, so can you do that?


.  How long do we have to wait for you to provide the evidence?

Evidence for what ? The obvious fact that the vast majority of the world's population remain with the same sexual identity they were born with? 

Is this not pretty obvious to you ? Seriously what new agey lefty nonsense  are you trying to peddle?

just_sayin

@Joeseph

But wait up I'm still waiting for you to prove your claims regarding sexual orientation being a choice?

I already provided you with links:

Sexual fluidity common among American young adults

Sexual identity fluidity, identity management stress, and depression among sexual minority adolescents

Study Highlights Fluid Sexual Orientation in Many Teens

Let me quote from an actual study:

Sociodemographic Patterns in Retrospective Sexual Orientation Identity and Attraction Change in the Sexual Orientation Fluidity in Youth Study

Across the sample, 17% reported a retrospective change in identity and 33% reported a change in attractions. 

Sexual identity fluidity, identity management stress, and depression among sexual minority adolescents

In the sample, 40% of SMA reported at least one change in sexual identity over 18-month period. Greater number of cisgender females reported sexual identity fluidity compared to their male counterparts (46.9% vs. 26.6%). 

At least one in five teenagers reports some change in sexual orientation during adolescence, according to new research from North Carolina State University, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the University of Pittsburgh.

Study Highlights Fluid Sexual Orientation in Many Teens

The researchers found that at some point during the three-year period, 19% of students reported at least one change in their self-labeled sexual identity – for example, classifying themselves as heterosexual in year one and as bisexual in year two. Some students reported multiple changes, such as switching from heterosexual to bisexual between years one and two, and then back to heterosexual in year three.
There were also notable differences between male and female students, with 26% of girls reporting some change in sexual identity over the three-year study period, compared to 11% of boys.

But wait there's more:  

Fixed or Fluid? Sexual Identity Fluidity in a Large National Panel Study of New Zealand Adults

Sexual Fluidity in Male and Females

The existing body of international research assessing sexual attractions, behaviors, and identities among representative samples of adolescents and adults shows that sexual orientation is not a static and categorical trait. Rather, same-sex sexuality shows substantial fluidity in both men and women, and this fluidity takes a number of forms.

Sexual Fluidity: Implications for Population Research - Duke University

Overall, about 1 in 11 American adults changed sexual identities over five annual surveys, including 6% of cisgender men, 11% of cisgender women, and 35% of gender minorities. Fluidity was particularly pronounced among young adults and among those who had ever identified as bisexual or “something else.” 

The obvious fact that the vast majority of the world's population remain with the same sexual identity they were born with? 

You don't get to make a false claim.  Back it up.  You provided dee-dly squat - like always.  

I provided evidence for my claim.  You did not.  

Joeseph

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC: JUST SAYIN POSTS UP.A STUDY REGARDS SEXUAL FLUIDITY AND DEPRESSION USING A SAMPLE OF 700 UNAMED AMERICAN TEENS AND SOMEHOW SEEMS TO THINK IT PROVES THAT SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS A CHOICE.

Public health programs and practice must be responsive to the sexual identity fluidity processes among adolescents, with particular attention to minority stress and depression. In addition, our results indicate that sexual identity development and fluidity processes differ between cisgender females and males; and the nuances associated with these processes of change need further investigation.

SEE THAT " FURTHER INVESTIGATION"?

Your paper says not one thing that supports your conclusion all it says is that some  young depressed teens may experience sexual confusion , did you even read it?

Your final contention that the vast majority of the world's population does not remain with the same sexual identify throughout life is hilarious , but then again you do believe we choose our sex like our clothes but cannot prove it.

So what country do you want me to list off sexual.identity for? US ? 

The US population identifies as 90 per cent hetrosexual this as remained more or less the same over the years  ,you state that's a " false claim" prove it or admit you're just lying as usual.

just_sayin

Joeseph said:

@just_sayin

ARGUMENT TOPIC: JUST SAYIN POSTS UP.A STUDY REGARDS SEXUAL FLUIDITY AND DEPRESSION USING A SAMPLE OF 700 UNAMED AMERICAN TEENS AND SOMEHOW SEEMS TO THINK IT PROVES THAT SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS A CHOICE.

Public health programs and practice must be responsive to the sexual identity fluidity processes among adolescents, with particular attention to minority stress and depression. In addition, our results indicate that sexual identity development and fluidity processes differ between cisgender females and males; and the nuances associated with these processes of change need further investigation.

SEE THAT " FURTHER INVESTIGATION"?

Your paper says not one thing that supports your conclusion all it says is that some  young depressed teens may experience sexual confusion , did you even read it?

Your final contention that the vast majority of the world's population does not remain with the same sexual identify throughout life is hilarious , but then again you do believe we choose our sex like our clothes but cannot prove it.

So what country do you want me to list off sexual.identity for? US ? 

The US population identifies as 90 per cent hetrosexual this as remained more or less the same over the years  ,you state that's a " false claim" prove it or admit you're just lying as usual.

From the previously sited study

Sociodemographic Patterns in Retrospective Sexual Orientation Identity and Attraction Change in the Sexual Orientation Fluidity in Youth Study

Participants were 4,087 youth (58% cisgender girls/women, 38% cisgender boys/men, 5% transgender or nonbinary individuals), ages 14–25 years, from across the United States, who were recruited from an online survey panel. Sexual and gender minorities and people of color were oversampled.

Are you going to want their names too?  LOL.  

I've provided peer review studies from the US and New Zealand.  You provided nothing.  I provided studies that have been cited by Harvard, and are the basis of policies at the National Institutes of Health.  You provided no evidence.  I'm seeing a pattern here.

You once again did not provide any sources for your spurious claims - particularly the claim that people are born gay.  Time to prove it or admit you're just lying as usual.  

Joeseph

@just_sayin


ARGUMENT TOPIC : JUST SAYIN STATES THAT TO SAY THE WORLDS POPULATION IS MOSTLY HETEROSEXUAL IS A BLATANT LIE , ALSO THAT WE ALL PICK OUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION WHEN WE REACH ADULTHOOD


You once again did not provide any sources for your spurious claims - particularly the claim that people are born gay


To say that the majority of the worlds population is heterosexual is according to mentally unbalanced Just Lyin a "spurious claim" .....ROFLMAO 

Surveys in Western cultures find, on average, that about 93% of men and 87% of women identify as completely heterosexual, 4% of men and 10% of women as mostly heterosexual, 0.5% of men and 1% of women as evenly bisexual, 0.5% of men and 0.5% of women as mostly homosexual, and 2% of men and 0.5% of women as completely ...

https://en.wikipedia.org ;› wiki › D...

Demographics of sexual orientation - Wikipedia

Are you going to want their names too?  LOL.  

Yes sure , you hardly think I'd take your word for it.

I've provided peer review studies from the US and New Zealand. 

No , you've provided a study saying depressed kids may be undecided on their sexual orientation, I'm waiting on you to prove a peer reviewed paper saying we pick our sexuality.


 You provided nothing

Why you don't accept 90 percent  of Americans identify as heterosexual,  seriously?


.  I provided studies that have been cited by Harvard, and are the basis of policies at the National Institutes of Health.

I'm waiting for your links that prove we choose our sexual orientation.

  You provided no evidence.  I'm seeing a pattern here.

So do you want a link to the rather obvious fact that the majority of humans identify as heterosexual?

You once again did not provide any sources for your spurious claims - particularly the claim that people are born gay. 

Yes sorry I forgot you think we all mostly decide to choose our sexual orientation in our teens after studying the various options available ,this nonsense has really taken a grip in the US it seems.

I'm sorry you think it undecided the fact that the  majority of the worlds population identify as heterosexual, I can just see the shock on your face at this revelation.


Time to prove it or admit you're just lying as usual.  

Just sayin thinks we pick our sexual orientation on reaching maturity ........Seriously LOL

jack

JeffreyBlankenship said:

By way of natural biological processes,  any organisms goal in life is to create offspring

Hello J:

The above is your opinion.  It's not truth.  

The truth IS, in this great free nation of ours, as long as we don't require anyone to agree with us, we can CHOOSE to be ANYTHING we want.

Ain't this a great country, or what? 

excon

Barnardot

@Joeseph ;Just sayin thinks we pick our sexual orientation on reaching maturity ........Seriously LOL

Yes Lier Boy. Seriously LOL. When you finally get to maturity the first thing your going to do is go to Porn Hub to toss off and if that doesn’t work then you’ll go to Gaydar then your going to decide which  orientation you are. 

Joeseph

@Barnardot

Yes Lier Boy.

What's a "lier" ?

PSeriously LOL.

What does " PSeriously"  mean?


When you finally get to maturity the first thing your going to do is go to Porn Hub to toss off and if that doesn’t work then you’ll go to Gaydar then your going to decide which  orientation you are. 


Right , go ya , so go to porn hub have a w-nk then go to Gaydar then decide your orientation,  seriously Barny can no one help with your profound retardation?

ZeusAres42

Joeseph said:

@Barnardot

Yes Lier Boy.

What's a "lier" ?

PSeriously LOL.

What does " PSeriously"  mean?


When you finally get to maturity the first thing your going to do is go to Porn Hub to toss off and if that doesn’t work then you’ll go to Gaydar then your going to decide which  orientation you are. 


Right , go ya , so go to porn hub have a w-nk then go to Gaydar then decide your orientation,  seriously Barny can no one help with your profound retardation?

I think Barnardot's post was satire. 

Joeseph

@ZeusAres42

SATIRE.....

satire, artistic form, chiefly literary and dramatic, in which human or individual vices, follies, abuses, or shortcomings are held up to censure by means of ridicule, derision, burlesque, irony, parody, caricature, or other methods, sometimes with an intent to inspire social reform.....

I personally think it fails on every level.to be in anyway satirical.

ZeusAres42

@Joeseph

Satire at Just_sayin's claims

ZeusAres42

FYI, for anyone interested in the latest genetic research regarding the bases of homosexuality, here is where it can be found: https://typeset.io/search/what-is-the-current-understanding-of-the-genetic-basis-of-cf0m71xxws?q=+What+is+the+current+understanding+of+the+genetic+basis+of+homosexuality?

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

Links not working.

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder

Go to this: https://typeset.io ; and type " What is the current understanding of the genetic basis of homosexuality?" or any other similar question. 

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder

Wait, going to find another way. 

just_sayin

ZeusAres42 said:

FYI, for anyone interested in the latest genetic research regarding the bases of homosexuality, here is where it can be found: https://typeset.io/search/what-is-the-current-understanding-of-the-genetic-basis-of-cf0m71xxws?q=+What+is+the+current+understanding+of+the+genetic+basis+of+homosexuality?

Your link doesn't work for me.

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder @just_sayin

Copy, and paste the following into Google and press the search button: "What is the current understanding of the genetic basis of homosexuality?" site:typeset.io

just_sayin

@ZeusAres42

Try this one instead.  Your AI agrees with me.

https://typeset.io/search?q=What is the current research on sexual orientation fluidity?

ZeusAres42

@just_sayin

Try this one instead.  Your AI agrees with me. https://typeset.io/search?q=What is the current research on sexual orientation fluidity?

I am lost. I haven't posted any AI content here. I just posted a link to the latest scientific literature on this, like what you have done, but with a different question. 

Nothing is being agreed or disagreed. All that there is is a list of literature to view and read. 

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

https://typeset.io/questions/what-is-the-current-understanding-of-the-genetic-basis-of-jbg5pd22pt

The current understanding of the genetic basis of homosexuality suggests that same-sex sexual behavior has a genetic component, with evidence pointing towards a polygenic influence[1][2][3]. While early claims of a "homosexuality gene" lacked power and yielded contradictory results, recent genome-wide association studies on large datasets have confirmed modest heritability but no major locus, indicating an extremely polygenic genetic influence on homosexuality[4]. Studies have shown that genetic loci linked with same-sex sexual behavior cannot predict individual orientation, highlighting the complexity of human sexuality and the small fraction of same-sex behavior explained by genetic variation[5]. The biology of male homosexuality, rooted in the brain's hypothalamus, has evolutionary origins, but our understanding of its genetic underpinnings is still evolving. Genetic studies, including family, twin, and molecular genetic research, support the notion of a strong genetic basis for same-sex attraction, although specific genes predisposing to such attractions are not definitively established.

just_sayin

ZeusAres42 said:

@Factfinder

Wait, going to find another way. 

What a crappy website Zeus!!!!!

Try this link
https://typeset.io/search?q=What is the current understanding of the basis of homosexuality

Your site doesn't site sources since the half a million people dna study with some of your sources being from the 60's and 70's.  I don't know if I am more disappointed in you or your AI.

ZeusAres42

@just_sayin

What a crappy website Zeus!!!!!

Try this link
https://typeset.io/search?q=What is the current understanding of the basis of homosexuality

Your site doesn't site sources since the half a million people dna study with some of your sources being from the 60's and 70's.  I don't know if I am more disappointed in you or your AI.

What website? And what AI of mine? This is now just outright lying. The mature thing to do much? 

ZeusAres42

Ok, here is an up-to-date free viewing: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-021-02035-3.pdf

ZeusAres42

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

https://typeset.io/questions/what-is-the-current-understanding-of-the-genetic-basis-of-jbg5pd22pt

The current understanding of the genetic basis of homosexuality suggests that same-sex sexual behavior has a genetic component, with evidence pointing towards a polygenic influence[1][2][3]. While early claims of a "homosexuality gene" lacked power and yielded contradictory results, recent genome-wide association studies on large datasets have confirmed modest heritability but no major locus, indicating an extremely polygenic genetic influence on homosexuality[4]. Studies have shown that genetic loci linked with same-sex sexual behavior cannot predict individual orientation, highlighting the complexity of human sexuality and the small fraction of same-sex behavior explained by genetic variation[5]. The biology of male homosexuality, rooted in the brain's hypothalamus, has evolutionary origins, but our understanding of its genetic underpinnings is still evolving. Genetic studies, including family, twin, and molecular genetic research, support the notion of a strong genetic basis for same-sex attraction, although specific genes predisposing to such attractions are not definitively established.

@Factfinder ;

After reviewing the studies referenced earlier and some of the latest research, I have concluded that much of what is being said in this thread is epistemically loaded language and an equivocation (most likely unintentionally) of scientific language with everyday common parlance. 

Where @just_sayin is concerned, there is the misuse of the term 'Fluidity' (probably thinking this means that orientation is a conscious choice when nothing could be further from the scientific truth), the implication that biology plays no role in orientation (that baffles me, let alone not even being stated in any of the literature he references), the negation of the interconnectedness of environmental factors (which he ignores to say anything about which is also in the literature he references), the blanket statements about LGBTQ+ people when we're explicitly talking about homosexuality, among other things such as studies with outdated methodologies as well as posting news blogs. 

His scientific grandiosity speaks volumes. 

And then again, there is the poisoning of the well where he is accusing me of posting AI content when I have done no such thing as some childish attempt to discredit me. 

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

I think you're right. That and the fact it's not really that important in the end. I've met people throughout my life who professed to be gay. Generally they say they'd rather not be attracted to the same sex so I just can't see it as a choice. At the same time there are those who like one friend told back in my army days, he was so desperate he just imagined it was a girl touching him and it got easier after that. So in his case it was a choice on some level. Can't say totally because 'desperate measures' doesn't really demonstrate choices as much an opportunistic minute sotra speak. 

Also on a side note isn't it amazing how tiny, miniscule something can be, magnify it and we find something smaller. That's where my fascination lies with all the genetic research behind the whole sexual orientation research. 

"His scientific grandiosity speaks volumes." Could not have said it better myself!

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder

Just realised what he meant now by AI. Didn't notice at first that scispace (now typesat.io)  had any ai affiliations lol. 

Thought he was accusing me of copying and pasting ai content again. 

In any case the purpose of linking that was to reference a place for quick and easy access to legit and up to date academic papers.

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

Doesn't detract from your statement though. LOL

MayCaesar

Something very obvious that I would like to insert in this discussion is that the question of what causes homosexuality is separate from the question of whether it is changeable at will. Even if homosexuality was purely environmental (which it very well might be), it still would not imply that it can be changed intentionally. Human psychology has incredible memory, and 90-year old people are still chiefly run by their childhood traumas. Someone who had a very traumatic confrontation with their parent when they were 5, may still experience painful flashbacks every time they enter a confrontation at the age of 95. They were not born with these flashbacks, but they are so deeply ingrained in their psychology that they might as well be an inherent part of their brain.

Changing one's behavior is difficult enough. Changing one's preferences is downright impossible without very serious and long inner work. Take someone who hates the taste of carrots and try to get them to love it - most likely will not happen. And changing disliking one vegetable to liking it is a billion times easier than changing being sexually attracted to one gender to another.

Lastly, I invite anyone who seriously believes that homosexuality can be changed into heterosexuality at will - conduct the opposite experiment. Pick a month and, assuming you are heterosexual, live it as if you were homosexual. Go on dates with guys (involving making out), share bed with them, watch gay porn... Then let us know how it went.