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Explain This...

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Why is it that if a cop kills a white man, he lives life as normal. The moment a cop kills a black man, even a criminal who is armed, there life is done for. What has our country become. If we want real justice, it's not gonna come based on skin color. People are begging for equality but they are missing the obvious. Give justice to all of us. Thoughts?
NomenclaturePlaffelvohfenLiamThePersonAlofRICYDdhartaTreeManTrueLoveDebater123Cringe_Train
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  • NomenclatureNomenclature 605 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship
    Why is it that if a cop kills a white man, he lives life as normal. The moment a cop kills a black man, even a criminal who is armed, there life is done for. 

    Sure, I'll explain it. Your question is loaded with racism and grounded in a premise which isn't even true. It is extremely rare for police officers in the United States to face legal action, regardless of whether the people they kill are black or white.

    Debater123PlaffelvohfenxlJ_dolphin_473CYDdhartaAlofRIOakTownASkepticalOne
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship ;

    You are making a huge mistake by bringing race into this. If you just focused on getting justice for all cops instead of crying about perceived racial disparity, your argument might be taken more seriously.

    The media tends to focus on blacks because at only 13.43% of the US population, Blacks account for 23.58% of all police related deaths, while Whites at 76.32% of the population account for only 36.97% of all police deaths.

    In other words, if you are black you are much more likely to be killed by the police than if you are white. For this reason, it is not only correct, but in fact more correct for police to focus on the mistreatment of blacks by police officers. If there were no bias, then we should expect the police killing to be equal to the population statistics. Because they are not, it is safe to assume that there is police bias resulting in the deaths of more POC.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124036/number-people-killed-police-ethnicity-us/
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/183489/population-of-the-us-by-ethnicity-since-2000/

    While I would certainly agree that cops who kill people should be held responsible for their actions, in practice it is very rare that this occurs. This is why typically the only time that it happens is when the media gives the situation enough attention to galvanize people into action. This is why media is so problematic for authoritarian regimes, because it prevents them from achieving their goals of controlling the public through violence and fear.
    PlaffelvohfenDebater123xlJ_dolphin_473CYDdhartaAlofRIOakTownA
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2506 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship

    99% of cops who kill on duty see no consequences for their actions, regardless of race...  You, are making this about race when it shouldn't, says a lot more about you than your argumentation...
    Racism plays a part obviously (this is the US after all, the idea of race, and violence, permeates your whole culture) but it goes a lot deeper than just race...

    Want a non-exhaustive list of white victims that should have got justice but were denied it by the police supremacy culture?

    Daniel Shaver's assassin got acquitted (this one still angers me today)... Pastor Jonathan Ayers murderer was also acquitted...  The deaths of James Boyd, Mary Hawkes, Michael Parker, Loren Simpson, John Crawford just to name a few white victims, all police officers were acquitted yet all cases settled for tens of millions in wrongful death lawsuits... The cases were ruled wrongful deaths but no one but the public paid for them, the officers involved, who should all have been convicted, never were... 

    There is not enough place to list all the cases involving black victims where officers were cleared without any criminal consequences (but settled for millions in wrongful deaths judgments), thus debunking your asinine claim that cops have their lives ruined when murdering blacks but not when murdering whites...

    Police immunity and bully culture is the US biggest problem... Race only comes a close second with regard to US policing problems...
    Happy_KillbotNomenclatureCYDdhartaDebater123AlofRIOakTownABastiat
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @Plaffelvohfen
    Police immunity and bully culture is the US biggest problem... Race only comes a close second with regard to US policing problems...

    The problem is global and it is deeper than color, the misinformation that slavery was ever ended by the American Civil War and is not an active part of the judicial process was a mistake as it details a union that is vastly misunderstood. The second problem is the police have been assigned the principle of enforcement of the law by civil actions and precedent, and it is laws that by their contradictions that become a source of public conflict.
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 190 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot. What about the fact that all these people who died, were armed or threatening cops?
    PlaffelvohfenLiamThePersonAlofRI
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship ;
    What about the fact that all these people who died, were armed or threatening cops?
    What about the fact that not all those people who died were armed or threatening cops?
    LiamThePersonPlaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2506 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship
    @Happy_Killbot. What about the fact that all these people who died, were armed or threatening cops?
    All "these people"??? Care to name at least a few?? You're just throwing sh!t around at the moment..... Aren't you afraid to go to Hell for lying so blatantly? 
    Happy_KillbotAlofRI
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 190 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen I'm not lying though?! 6% of all people shot were unarmed...
    Plaffelvohfen
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 190 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen. AND 2% WERE UNARMED AND BLACK
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 190 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot. You see the common misconception is that cops are killing unarmed black men only. This is a lie.
    Happy_KillbotDebater123
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship ;
     I'm not lying though?! 6% of all people shot were unarmed...
    Your previous statement:
    What about the fact that all these people who died, were armed or threatening cops?
    Tell me, does a 6% discrepancy equate to all?

    If I owed you $1 in change, and gave you 3 quarters, 1 nickel, 1 dime, and 4 pennies would you be satisfied as me having given you all of your change?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship ;
    You see the common misconception is that cops are killing unarmed black men only. This is a lie.
    Almost no one thinks that. That is as far from a "common" misconception as it is a common misconception that Christians eat bread and drink wine to represent eating the body of Jesus to gain his powers.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 190 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot. Thats fair. Thats not how I meant the statement.

    What about the fact that the vast majority of people who die in law enforcement custody are armed and threatening cops.
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 190 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot. That has no relevance but the media likes to push the fact that these men are "innocent"
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship ;
    Thats fair. Thats not how I meant the statement.

    What about the fact that the vast majority of people who die in law enforcement custody are armed and threatening cops.
    What about the fact that you provided nothing except your word? How do you know that is true?
     That has no relevance but the media likes to push the fact that these men are "innocent"
    So, let me get this straight: You believe that this is a "common misconception that cops are killing unarmed black men only", but can you give me any examples, say 10, of anyone who actually thinks this?

    If you can't do so, then maybe that isn't a "common misconception" at all, and where/ or who ever told you this is trying to radicalize you.

    Can you even give media examples where this is claimed?
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2506 Pts   -   edited April 21
    @JeffreyBlankenship
    @Plaffelvohfen I'm not lying though?! 6% of all people shot were unarmed...
    Yes you are lying... Just between 2015 and May 2020, 5367 fatal police shootings were recorded; missing details on race/ethnicity or age left a total of 4653 deaths for analysis. 
    This data does not even include “deaths of people in police custody, fatal shootings by off-duty officers or non-shooting deaths.”...  So Floyd's case (and others) are not accounted for, only shootings...

    The victims were unarmed in 1 in 6 (753; or 16%) fatal shootings. 

    That's 14.2 unarmed people killed per month, just by shootings... 

    Rates among unarmed Black and Hispanic victims were significantly higher than they were among unarmed White victims: more than 3 times as high and 45% higher, respectively.

    Source
    Happy_KillbotOakTownA
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 806 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship

    I'm not sure you worded your op in a way that I can agree.
    First off when you mentioned their life is done for I'm not sure if you meant under the law or due to media/ the mob and hysteria it causes.

    I'll admit that I'm totally ignorant on the data of how often police are convicted of wrongful death for whites vs blacks.  Even so that data would be very hard to derive any meaningful conclusions because the context of each individual situation matters into if that decision was just or not.

    Certainly in modern times it seems to me that any shooting/killing of a black individual gets far more media coverage, and they often dont do a good job of waiting for the evidence to come out before conviction and ruining of the Cops character.  These stories stir up much more emotion, and therefore are worth more money to the media. Recently someone in the media apologized for stating a suspect was black even though he shot people and was still at large, which is ridiculous. 

    The media has done a wonderful job of continuing to perpetuate that race plays a big part in America today because it sells.  The way to end the cycle is to stop assuming every bad interracial involves race.

    Even in the Floyd case which was tragic, can anyone show me anything that points to actions being taken because he was black?  It was an unfortunate incident that happened to a black individual but that doesn't mean it was racist.  It was obvious to everyone that if chauvin was acquitted of anything the hysteria the media caused would have caused destruction all over the U.S...giving them more money and stories to write about.  See the pattern?
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -   edited April 21
    @Happy_Killbot The reason that black people are killed at a far higher rate than white people is that black people commit far more crimes and are therefore more likely to be in a violent confrontation with police, and therefore are more likely to be shot.

    If there was no police bias then we should not expect the number to be the same as their population, as certain groups commit more crimes than other groups.
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 806 Pts   -   edited April 21
    @Plaffelvohfen

    I have some questions about that sources data.

    When it says 3 times higher, is that based on their population size or police interactions.   In reading it seems they based it on population size.

    If there are disproportionately more police respondents to violent crimes for a specific ethnic group you'd expect the rate to be higher for that group.  It's curious that Asians were significantly lower as a minority.

    Also I don't always like trying to draw conclusions  based on "unarmed", because that doesn't mean unjustified.
    JeffreyBlankenshipPlaffelvohfenLuigi7255
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    The reason that black people are killed at a far higher rate than white people is that black people commit far more crimes and are therefore more likely to be in a violent confrontation with police, and therefore are more likely to be shot.
    What evidence do you have to suggest that black people are more violent than whites?
    If there was no police bias then we should not expect the number to be the same as their population, as certain groups commit more crimes than other groups.
    Only if your racial assumption is objectively true, and there is more reason for blacks to commit crime, and there is more opportunity for blacks to commit crimes, and even then you would need to explain why blacks who are unarmed are shot more often that whites who are unarmed.

    How do you explain that anyways?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • JeffreyBlankenshipJeffreyBlankenship 190 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot. I mean if you really want to get into that realm of things we can.

    Per the Bureau of Justice: 52% of homicides are committed by African Americans vs 45% by white americans.

    FBI: The FBI has black criminals carrying out 38 percent of murders, compared to 31.1 per cent for whites. (Less recent data)(2008)

    If we want to talk about just violent crimes, the FBI furthers: 38.5 percent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.

  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @JeffreyBlankenship ;
    I mean if you really want to get into that realm of things we can.

    Per the Bureau of Justice: 52% of homicides are committed by African Americans vs 45% by white americans.

    FBI: The FBI has black criminals carrying out 38 percent of murders, compared to 31.1 per cent for whites. (Less recent data)(2008)

    If we want to talk about just violent crimes, the FBI furthers: 38.5 percent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.

    How about you provide your own sources so I know you are not just pulling these numbers which seem to contradict out of thin air.

    Anyways, none of this would prove either that the media spreads a "common misconception that cops are killing unarmed black men only", nor provide evidence that people actually think that, nor would it prove that the vast majority of cops who die to law enforcement are threatening cops.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 806 Pts   -   edited April 21
    Here's a pretty good example of the damage the media has done. 


    Plaffelvohfen
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    What evidence do you have to suggest that black people are more violent than whites?
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls Black people committed 3177 homicides in 2018, while White people committed 3011.
    and there is more reason for blacks to commit crime, and there is more opportunity for blacks to commit crimes
    Everything you just said is completely contextual, and you cant prove it. There may be more reasons for white people to commit crimes in certain scenarios, and the same goes for black people.
    and even then you would need to explain why blacks who are unarmed are shot more often that whites who are unarmed.

    How do you explain that anyways?
    Sure, black people are often killed more whilst unarmed, however, the number is very small, only 47 in 2018.
    23 were white, and 18 were black, now, there can be many reasons why this disproportion may happen, of course, racism is one, it's relatively small and there is no solid evidence for it.
    https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/police-brutality-race-numbers/
    It should also be worth noting that you have a one in 1,187,252.76596 chance to be killed whilst unarmed by a police officer. Which is very low, and a 0.00389659048333% chance for an officer to use excessive force on you.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -   edited April 21
    Happy_Killbot said:


    Anyways, none of this would prove either that the media spreads a "common misconception that cops are killing unarmed black men only", nor provide evidence that people actually think that,

    If they aren't spreading the misconception, they're doing nothing to clear it up as the misconception certainly exists.  Not surprisingly, the beliefs become more separated from reality the further left respondents identify politically.

    A survey produced by Skeptic.com reveals that people who identify as liberal or very liberal believe 1,000 or more unarmed black men were murdered by police in 2019.

    According to the Washington Post database, that number was 12. The Mapping Police Violence database says the number was 27.  

    The survey says among the very liberal, more than 50% believe American law enforcement killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. Nearly 8% of the very liberal respondents believe officers killed more than 10,000 unarmed black men in 2019.

    About 39% of self-identified liberal respondents said police killed 1,000 or more unarmed black men in 2019. A little 5% of liberal respondents said that number was more than 10,000.
    https://www.policemag.com/596346/half-of-surveys-very-liberal-respondents-believe-1-000-or-more-unarmed-black-men
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    Black people committed 3177 homicides in 2018, while White people committed 3011.
    If you are looking at these based on the pure numbers, how can you be so sure that this translates into actual violent tendencies? Isn't it possible that the circumstances of blacks has led to more crime than actually being more violent, or various other X factors?
    Everything you just said is completely contextual, and you cant prove it. There may be more reasons for white people to commit crimes in certain scenarios, and the same goes for black people.
    I think you missed the point. What I am saying is that in order for crimes to occur, there must be more opportunity to do so.
    Sure, black people are often killed more whilst unarmed, however, the number is very small, only 47 in 2018.
    23 were white, and 18 were black, now, there can be many reasons why this disproportion may happen, of course, racism is one, it's relatively small and there is no solid evidence for it.
    That is still statistically significant, and therefore demands a response. If in fact it is just that black people are more violent as you suggest, then shouldn't we expect this number to be at or near 0, since cops should treat each violent encounter similarly?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -   edited April 21
    @Happy_Killbot
    I believe you are misunderstanding what I said, I am not suggesting that black people are more violent inherently because they are black. What I am saying is that black people commit violent crimes at a higher rate than white people, which is among the biggest reasons if not the biggest as to why they are killed more often by the police.

    But there is always an opportunity to commit a crime.

    Also, being unarmed doesn't necessarily mean innocent, in nearly half of that number (22), non-lethal force was attempted and failed prior to deadly force being used.
    No... if a group is more violent, I argue that there is a higher chance for them to be killed whilst unarmed.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    I believe you are misunderstanding what I said, I am not suggesting that black people are more violent inherently because they are black. What I am saying is that black people commit violent crimes at a higher rate than white people, which is among the biggest reasons if not the biggest as to why they are killed more often by the police.
    And the reason for this is_____?
    But there is always an opportunity to commit a crime.
    Not really. 
    Also, being unarmed doesn't necessarily mean innocent, in nearly half of that number (22), non-lethal force was attempted and failed prior to deadly force being used.
    No... if a group is more violent, I argue that there is a higher chance for them to be killed whilst unarmed.
    Why would that be enough to justify use of lethal force? Technically, that's a single document short of a war crime.
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2506 Pts   -  
    @MichaelElpers

    I have some questions about that sources data.

    Feel free to ask the authors : https://jech.bmj.com/content/75/4/394.info

    Also I don't always like trying to draw conclusions  based on "unarmed", because that doesn't mean unjustified.

    Well, it certainly does when we're talking about trained professionals... We're not talking about your granny or the average citizen here, you do realize that right?

    At 16% it's not a statistical anomaly, it's a systemic outcome... It's just what necessarily happens when you give a badge and a gun to people with superficial screening (both physical and psychological), inadequate training (both physical and psychological) and on top of that, give them qualified immunity... 

    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -   edited April 22
    @Happy_Killbot
    Didn't we talk about this in another debate? The reason for high black crime is caused by the huge single mother rate.

    Of course, there are some absurd scenarios where there are no opportunities to commit crimes like in anarchy, but in any place, with rules you have to follow and which you can break, there is an opportunity for crime.

    Perhaps because non-lethal methods were not effective? This is also irrelevant and deviating from the point, I have already explained why black people are shot more often than their white counterparts per capita whilst unarmed.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    Didn't we talk about this in another debate? The reason for high black crime is caused by the huge single mother rate.
    So you are saying that single mothers make black people more violent? Do you have any evidence to back that up?
    Of course, there are some absurd scenarios where there are no opportunities to commit crimes like in anarchy, but in any place, with rules you have to follow and which you can break, there is an opportunity for crime.
    It's actually the majority of scenarios, crimes only occur when the conditions are right. Crimes are the exception, not the rule.
    Perhaps because non-lethal methods were not effective? This is also irrelevant and deviating from the point, I have already explained why black people are shot more often than their white counterparts per capita whilst unarmed.
    Then why is the US the only developed nation that needs to result to police brutality like this? Most other countries the cops don't carry guns, if any weapons at all. See, if violence were necessary by the cops, then we should expect it to be necessary in other countries as well. Since this is not the case, there is clearly another problem here.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -   edited April 22
    Most other countries the cops don't carry guns, if any weapons at all.

    Incorrect.  There are only 19 nations with unarmed police.  16 are island nations; interestingly, two others are landlocked nations.
    Debater123
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    1: I'd say that single mothers themselves don't do anything, but rather it is the lack of a father.
    http://marripedia.org/effects_of_parents_on_crime_rates
    The absence of the father is the single most important cause of crime.1) In fact, boys who are fatherless from birth are three times as likely to go to jail as peers from intact families, while boys whose fathers do not leave until they are 10 to 14 years old are two times as likely to go to jail as their peers from intact families
    Also, communities with high crime rates tend to have high single mother rates. https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race#detailed/1/any/false/1729,37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

    2: Conditions are right =/=an opportunity. I have an opportunity to shoot a person in front of a police officer, but that doesn't mean the conditions are right

    3: Probably because the USA is the developed country with the highest crime rate? Specifically in violent crime, and specifically in homicides.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    1: I'd say that single mothers themselves don't do anything, but rather it is the lack of a father.
    No, you need to prove your claim that a lack of a father leads to increased violence.
    2: Conditions are right =/=an opportunity. I have an opportunity to shoot a person in front of a police officer, but that doesn't mean the conditions are right
    Um, yes actually that would be definitionally correct. Having the ability to shoot a police officer = an opportunity. All I mean by opportunity and reason is that you both can and have motivation to do so.
    3: Probably because the USA is the developed country with the highest crime rate? Specifically in violent crime, and specifically in homicides.
    You are begging the question. You are using the outcome to justify the reason. Other developed countries have a much lower crime rate than the US. I believe this is a result of violent cops.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -  

    You are begging the question. You are using the outcome to justify the reason. Other developed countries have a much lower crime rate than the US. I believe this is a result of violent cops.

    You're saying police don't respond to crimes, they initiate them?
    NomenclatureDebater123
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 605 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    You're saying police don't respond to crimes, they initiate them?

    The cops and the robbers are both paranoid and armed to the teeth. 

    And you wonder why a lot of suspects (and cops) die?

    Give me a break. Your country is so ridiculous. 

    Plaffelvohfen
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    1: I literally just proved that, did you read what I said?

    2: So, you are agreeing with me, correct?

    3: Prove that cops being violent is the sole reason for a high crime rate., even though they sometimes have to be to actually do their job.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    1: I literally just proved that, did you read what I said?
    You are citing sources that claim that a lack of a father increases crime, but that doesn't prove that it increases violence. It is possible that it increases crime without increasing violence. That's what you need to prove.
    2: So, you are agreeing with me, correct?
    No.
    3: Prove that cops being violent is the sole reason for a high crime rate., even though they sometimes have to be to actually do their job.
    That's not my claim, now is it?

    You are begging the question by asserting that high crime leads to high police violence.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    1: I also cited that groups with a high single-father rate have a high violent crime rate.

    2: You did, you agreed having an opportunity doesn't necessarily mean that conditions are right.

    3: I never said that, I just said that because there is a high crime here compared to other developed countries, and it is for that reason police are armed.
    In fact, in many countries in Europe, which you would call 'developed', police carry guns.
  • TreeManTreeMan 190 Pts   -  
    Lack of either parent makes it much harder for the child. So does domestic violence. 
    PlaffelvohfenDebater123
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    1: I also cited that groups with a high single-father rate have a high violent crime rate.
    That doesn't prove what you are trying to prove. You are conflating quantity with severity. Think about it this way, you might count more instances of violent crime with fatherless children, but that would not explain the higher instance of police brutality against blacks. These could be causally unrelated.
    2: You did, you agreed having an opportunity doesn't necessarily mean that conditions are right.
    No, I did not.
    3: I never said that, I just said that because there is a high crime here compared to other developed countries, and it is for that reason police are armed.
    In fact, in many countries in Europe, which you would call 'developed', police carry guns.
    Yes, but that higher police violence is what we are trying to explain, so simply pointing to it as a reason proves nothing, it just begs the question.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • TreeManTreeMan 190 Pts   -  
    3: I never said that, I just said that because there is a high crime here compared to other developed countries, and it is for that reason police are armed.
    In fact, in many countries in Europe, which you would call 'developed', police carry guns.
    They carry guns, but have a far smaller violence and brutality rate. Ever hear European police killing people on the news? No!! Why? Because they don’t!
    Happy_KillbotDebater123
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    1: It actually does prove what I want to prove, it proves that lack of fathers causes crime.

    2:
    2: Conditions are right =/=an opportunity. I have an opportunity to shoot a person in front of a police officer, but that doesn't mean the conditions are right"
    Um, yes actually that would be definitionally correct.
    3: By police violence are you referring to officers using excessive force? If so, only 0.0039%(2080 cases) of cases resulted in an officer using excessive force, you are far more likely to get murdered than for an officer to use excessive force on you.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -  

    The cops and the robbers are both paranoid and armed to the teeth. 

    And you wonder why a lot of suspects (and cops) die?

    Give me a break. Your country is so ridiculous. 


    How does that have anything to do with the question I asked?
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 605 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    Incorrect.  There are only 19 nations with unarmed police. 
    You missed this part out:-

    These countries exhibit gun-homicide rates markedly lower on average than countries with armed police forces.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country#Unarmed_police_forces
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 605 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    How does that have anything to do with the question I asked?
    Don't make me laugh. Your "question" was a loaded straw man argument. Killbot wrote:-
    Other developed countries have a much lower crime rate than the US. I believe this is a result of violent cops.
    And you made up your own ludicrous version of what he meant by that:-
    You're saying police don't respond to crimes, they initiate them?


    CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    Incorrect.  There are only 19 nations with unarmed police. 
    You missed this part out:-

    These countries exhibit gun-homicide rates markedly lower on average than countries with armed police forces.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country#Unarmed_police_forces

    I didn't miss anything; it was irrelevant as those are virtually all island nations and the US is not.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    1: It actually does prove what I want to prove, it proves that lack of fathers causes crime.
    You need to prove that a lack of fathers causes violence, not crime.
    2: Conditions are right =/=an opportunity. I have an opportunity to shoot a person in front of a police officer, but that doesn't mean the conditions are right"
    Um, yes actually that would be definitionally correct.
    So then the answer is no. Everything I am saying is consistent.
    3: By police violence are you referring to officers using excessive force? If so, only 0.0039%(2080 cases) of cases resulted in an officer using excessive force, you are far more likely to get murdered than for an officer to use excessive force on you.
    That doesn't answer the question of why US cops are so much more dangerous than in other developed countries.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    How does that have anything to do with the question I asked?
    Don't make me laugh. Your "question" was a loaded straw man argument. Killbot wrote:-
    Other developed countries have a much lower crime rate than the US. I believe this is a result of violent cops.
    And you made up your own ludicrous version of what he meant by that:-
    You're saying police don't respond to crimes, they initiate them?



    Lying as usual, you should seek professional help.  Your lying honestly appears to be pathological.  Your Killbot quote is nowhere in the post to which I was replying. 
    Nomenclature
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 605 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    Lying as usual

    I literally quoted you both. Stop wasting everybody's time please.

    Debater123CYDdharta
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