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Should Schools Teach That Religions Aren’t True?

Debate Information

Given that children will regrettably be exposed to biased religion in their lives wouldn't it be fair that their schooling should include lessons in countering such misinformation?

Also, given that research has shown the IQ of theists is lower than that of normal people, wouldn't it be in the best interests of educators to ensure that children receive a balanced education without the limitations to learning that religion imposes?

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  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -   edited April 27
    @Swolliw
    This is how I think schools should teach: Socrates' Educational Theory (newfoundations.com)

    Schools should use the Socratic method of teaching.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw ;
    Also, given that research has shown the IQ of theists is lower than that of normal people, wouldn't it be in the best interests of educators to ensure that children receive a balanced education without the limitations to learning that religion imposes?
    Correlation =/= causation. It could be that people with higher IQ's tend to steer away from religion.
    PlaffelvohfenAlofRISkepticalOneLuigi7255
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • TreeManTreeMan 190 Pts   -  
    I won’t say to ban religious classes altogether, as it would cause massive uproar, but I think schools should have a class teaching atheism and why god doesn’t exist, as well as how to counter the flawed arguments made by the religious. 
  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -   edited April 27
    @TreeMan
    Why? you can't prove atheism, so teaching it would just be teaching kids to agree with your opinion.
    CYDdhartaTreeMan
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot Actually no, Jews, for example, are a religion, and they have higher IQs on average
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -   edited April 27
    [Duplicate Text]
  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -  
    @Debater123
    Why do you suppose that is?
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 Cultural differences(or maybe the absence of culture by one party[atheists]).
  • TreeManTreeMan 190 Pts   -  
    Religion classes are the same. And even if I can’t prove the non-existence of god, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist. I don’t prove flying pigs, but do people believe they exist? No! Why? Because there is no proof for their existence @anarchist100
    CYDdharta
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    Actually no, Jews, for example, are a religion, and they have higher IQs on average
    Your racism is showing.

    When we talk about IQ when compared to religion what we mean is religiosity, which roughly defined means the propensity to practice one's faith and adhere to it's dogma. Cultural Jews happen to be among the most secular.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
    Debater123CYDdhartaPlaffelvohfenTreeMan
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot What racism?
    And I see nothing wrong with being secular, I personally do not encourage people to be atheist, or to be very religious, both have consequences.
    Happy_KillbotTreeMan
  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -   edited April 27
    @TreeMan
    They don't have religion classes in schools anymore, also just because you can't prove that their is a god does not make it impossible for there to be a god.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    What racism?
    You are conflating a religion with a culture to claim superiority for genetic reasons. That's racist.
    And I see nothing wrong with being secular, I personally do not encourage people to be atheist, or to be very religious, both have consequences.
    Then my point is proven.
    CYDdhartaPlaffelvohfenAlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot Judaism is both a religion and a culture. What genetic differences are there? Judaism isn't even a race.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -  
    @Debater123

    Judaism isn't even a race.

    Really? Explain.
    Happy_Killbot
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    Judaism is both a religion and a culture. What genetic differences are there? Judaism isn't even a race.
    What Anarchist100 said.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 The burden of proof does not fall on me to prove that Jews are not a race, it is on you to prove they are.
    Happy_Killbot
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    The burden of proof does not fall on me to prove that Jews are not a race, it is on you to prove they are.
    Actually, you made a positive claim: "Judaism isn't even a race."

    So you do have the burden of proof. You need to justify your claim.
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -   edited April 27
    @Debater123
    I never claimed that Jews were a race, I just ask you why you think they aren't.
    Happy_Killbot
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot You actually made the initial claim by calling me racist because I am apparently a 'Jewish supremacist' seeking to assert my 'Jewish' racial supremacy.

    @anarchist100 Here is the Merriam Webster definition of race:
    Any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race Let's say, in this hypothetical scenario, I have a twin brother and he turns Christan and is therefore then a different race, correct?
    That cannot be the case since we look pretty much identical, and I share more physical attributes with this Christian than any other Jew.
    anarchist100Happy_KillbotCYDdharta
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -   edited April 27
    @Debater123 ;
    You actually made the initial claim by calling me racist because I am apparently a 'Jewish supremacist' seeking to assert my 'Jewish' racial supremacy.
    That's because you said something racist, which I have already evidenced.
    Here is the Merriam Webster definition of race:
    Any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race Let's say, in this hypothetical scenario, I have a twin brother and he turns Christan and is therefore then a different race, correct?
    That cannot be the case since we look pretty much identical, and I share more physical attributes with this Christian than any other Jew.
    That would make him a Christian, but racially he would still be Jewish as Christianity is a religion, not a race.

    Based on the definition you provide Jews are a race.
    CYDdharta
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    That would make him a Christian, but racially he would still be Jewish as Christianity is a religion, not a race.

    Based on the definition you provide Jews are a race.
    The definition didn't prove that Jews are a race, it in fact proved the opposite. What makes Christianity not a race and Judaism one?
    Happy_Killbot
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    The definition didn't prove that Jews are a race, it in fact proved the opposite. What makes Christianity not a race and Judaism one?
    You are equivocating between religion and culture.

    This is what makes Jews a race:

    "any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry"

    Notice how that isn't true of Christians, which spread across many different races.
    CYDdharta
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -  
    You are equivocating between religion and culture.

    This is what makes Jews a race:

    "any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry"

    Notice how that isn't true of Christians, which spread across many different races.
    What "physical traits" do you believe identify someone as a Jew?
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta ;
    What "physical traits" do you believe identify someone as a Jew?
    http://web.ceu.hu/jewishstudies/pdf/01_hoedl.pdf
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 807 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100
    Schools should use the Socratic method of teaching.

    Indeed they should....students should by guided through knowledge and questioning towards a subject.

    Try and tell that to the education authorities and they wouldn't have a bar of it. They are probably too busy trying to reactively respond to the decreasing standards of education.

  • SwolliwSwolliw 807 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    Correlation =/= causation. It could be that people with higher IQ's tend to steer away from religion.

    Possibly, although in all fairness, the difference in IQs is small and the studies tend to lean more on inadequate general knowledge of theists during their formative years, usually due to being censored from reading scientific books and many literary classics due to perceived anti-religious content, e.g. Harry Potter.

    Happy_Killbot
  • SwolliwSwolliw 807 Pts   -  
    @TreeMan
    I won’t say to ban religious classes altogether, as it would cause massive uproar, but I think schools should have a class teaching atheism and why god doesn’t exist, as well as how to counter the flawed arguments made by the religious. 

    I totally agree. Religion has an unfair advantage since it has been inground by culture and the only way to counter that is through atheist instruction.

    In practice though it would never happen, so what do we do? Teach things like evolution in science and critical thinking. The kids will then make up their own minds.

  • SwolliwSwolliw 807 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100
    Why? you can't prove atheism, so teaching it would just be teaching kids to agree with your opinion.

    Atheism is the absence of religious belief; it is therefore a neutral position which requires no proof and it would be absurd to suggest proving something that is nil or doesn't exist.

    Teaching atheism is not about teaching opinion but teaching of facts and letting the students decide.

    Inevitably though, unless a student is ignorant, arrogant or deluded, the choice will always be atheism.

  • @Swolliw

    Atheism is the absence of religious belief; it is therefore a neutral position which requires no proof and it would be absurd to suggest proving something that is nil or doesn't exist.
    No, it isn't. Religion in its most basic form is a process of publicly shared belief, the most common description used to point out religion is dependent on an assignment as permission to declare religion and not evidence of characteristics all religions share with each other as a common state. Inevitably though, unless a student is ignorant, arrogant or deluded, the choice will always be atheism. A student is an employee who is being trained for a public service of some form. The payment of their labor is in the form of grade as achievement atheism is not a choice it is an admission of confession made on a specific idea of beliefs, shared publicly. Teaching atheism is not about teaching opinion but teaching of facts and letting the students decide. In other words, education and teaching are about coaching children truth, as facts can be complete or incomplete of information vital to the person's understanding of the whole truth.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot Jews are also spread out amongst different races, there can be a white Jew, and an Asian Jew.
  • LiamThePersonLiamThePerson 607 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 There's a difference between the Jewish religion and the Jewish ethnicity. They intersect a lot, but they don't mean each other. You can be ethnically Yemenite Jewish but practice Islam just as you can be ethnically welsh and practice Judaism. 
    Debater123Happy_Killbot
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    Jews are also spread out amongst different races, there can be a white Jew, and an Asian Jew.
    You are still equivocating the religion and the race. The existence of peoples in other places who practice Judaism does not in and of itself disprove that Jews are their own race, it simply demonstrates that the faith did spread some. All of these other people only count as either Jewish ethnicities or cultural Jews.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot But Jews were never their own race. They are as much of a race as Arabs, Druze, Kurds, Persians, and Turks, are you prepared to call all of those individual races?
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    They are as much of a race as Arabs, Druze, Kurds, Persians, and Turks, are you prepared to call all of those individual races?


    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -   edited April 28
    @Debater123
    I'm confused, how are Arabs not a race?
  • anarchist100anarchist100 491 Pts   -   edited April 28
    @Debater123 @Happy_Killbot
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe what Debater123 is trying to say is that genetically there is no Jewish race, and what people though where Jews where just a group of people of mixed race that all shared the same culture.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe what Debater123 is trying to say is that genetically there is no Jewish race, and what people though where Jews where just a group of people of mixed race that all shared the same culture.
    Genes don't define race, it's a social construct.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 807 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87
    Atheism is the absence of religious belief........
    No, it isn't. 

    Yes it is:

    Atheism NOUN disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

    I didn't make up the definition, it is an irrefutable fact and if anyone wishes to argue the toss they should contact the Oxford Press

    A student is an employee

    Incorrect. 

    Employee [ɛmplɔɪˈiːɛmˈplɔɪiːɪmˈplɔɪiː] NOUN a person employed for wages or salary, especially at non-executive level.

    The same applies as above.


    facts can be complete or incomplete of information vital to the person's understanding of the whole truth.
    Fact [fakt] NOUN a thing that is known or proved to be true.
    Once again, the same applies as above.

    My assertions are correct and factual.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1524 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ;
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe what Debater123 is trying to say is that genetically there is no Jewish race, and what people though where Jews where just a group of people of mixed race that all shared the same culture.
    Genes don't define race, it's a social construct.

     Really?!?  You argued just the opposite in a previous post;


    @CYDdharta ;
    What "physical traits" do you believe identify someone as a Jew?
    http://web.ceu.hu/jewishstudies/pdf/01_hoedl.pdf

    Happy_Killbot
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot Therefore, should British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, etc. all be considered races?
    Genes don't define race, it's a social construct.
    See what CYD said.

    @anarchist100 Yes, that is what I have been saying.
  • Swolliw said:
    @John_C_87
    Atheism is the absence of religious belief........
    No, it isn't. 

    Yes it is:

    Atheism NOUN disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

    I didn't make up the definition, it is an irrefutable fact and if anyone wishes to argue the toss they should contact the Oxford Press

    A belief that is religious is one that is openly shared publicly. The word Atheism itself does not address religions that do not have a principle of God at the core of their shared belief system.

    Swolliw said:
    @John_C_87


    A student is an employee

    Incorrect. 

    Employee [ɛmplɔɪˈiːɛmˈplɔɪiːɪmˈplɔɪiː] NOUN a person employed for wages or salary, especially at non-executive level.

    The same applies as above.

    A student is being trained for work as receives a grade for their effort. It is the cost of experience that is transferred away from the registered receipt which covers all debt, to a letter grade that does not cover all debt.
    @John_C_87

    facts can be complete or incomplete of information vital to the person's understanding of the whole truth.
    Fact [fakt] NOUN a thing that is known or proved to be true.
    Once again, the same applies as above.

    My assertions are correct and factual.
    Correct, but not without conditions that must be held, "must be known" is a substantial condition. The idea of not knowing or not understanding is set up in advance as an escape that what is said is not a whole truth and a conditional fact. this means the information is dependent on things that may not be presented or are simply overlooked.

    Religious
    1: of, relating to, or concerned with religion.
    Belief
    1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
    Compensation
    1a: the act of compensating: the state of being compensated
    Compensate
    1: to be equivalent to

    Compensate | Definition of Compensate by Merriam-Webster
    Compensation | Definition of Compensation by Merriam-Webster
    Religious - definition of religious by The Free Dictionary
    Belief | Definition of Belief by Merriam-Webster

    The principle in question is asking should shools be convenient more like a Court of law where a search for the whole truth is equally shared and not just placed upon the hands of those with the highest pay by grade.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 807 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87
    The word Atheism itself does not address religions that do not have a principle of God at the core of their shared belief system.

    That's right because there is no such thing as religions devoid of a God.


    A student is being trained for work as receives a grade for their effort. It is the cost of experience that is transferred away

    You are making up bizarre scenarios. What you are saying here just doesn't make the cut in the sensibility stakes, and I'm trying to be kind here.

    I suggest that you would be better off writing make-believe adventure stories for children.

    Under four years old.

  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    Therefore, should British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, etc. all be considered races?


    See what CYD said.

     Really?!?  You argued just the opposite in a previous post;
    He obviously didn't read any of this. To say race isn't defined by genes and that races have physical characteristics is not mutually exclusive.

    Race can be a social construct based on phenotypical characteristics.
    Debater123CYDdharta
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta ;
     Really?!?  You argued just the opposite in a previous post;
    Learn to read.

    Race can be a social construct based on phenotypical characteristics.
    CYDdharta
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    1: So therefore there is no such thing as 'White', 'Black', 'Asian', etc. Since our race is not ethnicity, and there is no such thing as being white, black, or Asian.
    Race can be a social construct based on phenotypical characteristics.
    That is by definition incorrect, race is defined by physical charactaristics.
    Any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry.
    Happy_KillbotCYDdharta
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    1: So therefore there is no such thing as 'White', 'Black', 'Asian', etc. Since our race is not ethnicity, and there is no such thing as being white, black, or Asian.
    http://www.fallacydetective.com/news/read/non-sequitur/
    That is by definition incorrect, race is defined by physical charactaristics.
    No, it is defined by societies based on cultural and phenotypical differences, huge difference.
    Debater123CYDdharta
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Swolliw
    That's right because there is no such thing as religions devoid of a God.
    Yes, there are religions devoid of god, and those people who follow beliefs are allowed to accept the beliefs of those who believe in a deity God or other. Religion is not governed by the understanding of deity it is governed as a shared belief that is made public.

    You are making up bizarre scenarios. What you are saying here just doesn't make the cut in the sensibility stakes, and I'm trying to be kind here.
    A student is an employee of a school and their work is compensated for by a grade assigned on a record, given to the student as a form of registered receipt for that work. "You are making up bizarre scenarios." the so-called scenario is an observation only and the forum is itself is about schools being responsible for truth.
  • Debater123Debater123 533 Pts   -  
    @Happy_Killbot
    1: How is it a non-sequitur?

    2: So you're ignoring the definition of what race is and thereby denying facts. Great, have a good day.
    Happy_KillbotCYDdharta
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @Debater123 ;
    1: How is it a non-sequitur?
    It doesn't follow logically. Basically you are just pulling this out of your A$$.
    2: So you're ignoring the definition of what race is and thereby denying facts. Great, have a good day.
    Lol, I'm using your definition slick.

    "Any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry."
    CYDdharta
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
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