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shall we try this one again; true or not?

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There are no absolute truths. Prove me wrong.
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  • Keal303NXQ3Keal303NXQ3 54 Pts   -  
    Absolute? Maybe not, true absolutes, but absolutes beyond a reasonable doubt
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -   edited May 3
    There are many........

     humans die is an absolute truth just to give an example of one 
    PlaffelvohfenTreeMan
  • Dee said:
    There are many humans die is an absolute truth just to give an example of one 
    at least to you, it is an absolute truth. You are a required part of that truth as it must be held as true. 
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    That may or may not be true.  death is a process of life and can be viewed at by a conscious person in a different way as another. Is it death if the atoms in our bodies reform into another one? Many physicist believe that the universe is conscious in itself. if so, then that is what gives us awarness.  Everything we percieve is slightly different for one person as it is to another. Death as a whole is just one dying; collectivly it is life to others; the deer dies and the lion lives because of it.@John_C_87
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    Death as a whole is just one dying

    Yes that is my point , you cease to exist whether you bring life to another you as an entity cease to exist as an entity no matter what new “agey spin” is put on it 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    we may as an unit cease to exist; however even science does not understand consciouness completely. It is not just neurons firing in specific sequence. Looking into the brain for conscious is like looking into the radio for the announcer. Re3ality is different for every individual. life itself has properties that are independent of individual thinking and actually has nbothing to do with the fundamental particals and chemical elements that we claim that makes up life.  In orsder to consider death absolute then perhaps you will explain how a few dollars worth of chemicals causes life and awarness first.@Dee
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    In orsder to consider death absolute then perhaps you will explain how a few dollars worth of chemicals causes life and awarness first.

    It is absolute that’s a fact , the rest of your question is totally irrelevant 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @maxx ;

    Let's assume for the same of argument that the following phrase from the OP is true:
    "There are no absolute truths."
    If this is true, then the statement "there are no absolute truths" must not be an absolute truth, meaning it is wrong.

    If it is wrong, then there are absolute truths.

    The premise is self-refuting.
    PlaffelvohfenJulesKorngoldSkepticalOne
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    actually that is simply false logic. it is like i can prove you are not here, you are not in canada, or mexico  so you must be someplace else and if you are someplace else, then you can not be here.  Dont give me that bull.@Happy_Killbot
    PlaffelvohfenHappy_Killbot
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    without bringing a religion or a creator into this, even science does not know what happens to conscious when the body dies.  Tell me, how does conscious die when the body does/@Dee
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @Happy_Killbot
    We can go one further, and absolute is neither lie nor truth by its basic condition of absolute. 
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    without bringing a religion or a creator into this, even science does not know what happens to conscious when the body dies.  Tell me, how does conscious die when the body does

    Show me where reputable scientists as a body have stated this ? This is beginning to go the Chopra/ spiritually route 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    Where Do You Go When You Die? The Increasing Signs That Human Consciousness Remains After Death (newsweek.com)   first i would like you to read the link.  Second even after the cells finally do die after so many days, there is no evidence to suggest thjat consciousness simply does not leave the cells.  @Dee
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx



    Where Do You Go When You Die? The Increasing Signs That Human Consciousness Remains After Death (newsweek.com)   first i would like you to read the link.  Second even after the cells finally do die after so many days, there is no evidence to suggest thjat consciousness simply does not leave the cells


    You said “ even science does not know what happens to conscious when the body dies.” that’s not true what you’re saying is you have the opinion of one individual who speculates on the matter but has zero science to back his assertions up 

    The burden of proof lies with you to prove your claim 


    Plaffelvohfen
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -   edited May 3
    okay, what is consciousness made up of? do not say specific neurons firing.  That is simply part of the process that enables consciousness; not the properties of consciousness itself
    @Dee
    Plaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    okay, what is consciousness made up of? do not say specific neurons firing.  That is simply part of the process that enables consciousness; not the properties of consciousness itself


    When you’re dead you’re dead that’s an absolute truth,  we all as humans will go the same way ,  when you have peer reviewed scientists saying otherwise I may revise my opinion until then you’re firmly in the camp of the Deepak Chopra type new age type nonsense 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    did you not read the link on how cells can live on for days after the bodys demise? And what of those who are clinically dead? then breought back to life? Guess what, dead is not dead if they can bring you back to life.@Dee
    Plaffelvohfen
  • SkepticalOneSkepticalOne 946 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    "There are no absolute truths"

    Is that an absolute truth?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    false logic;  i am talking about how everyone perceives reality differently and thus what may be true to you may not be the same truth for me.@SkepticalOne
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Something may or may not be found to be both true and absolute.
    Truth is a condition that can be found whole or incomplete.
     The truth, it is a type of qualification, an absolute has no qualification They, absolute and truth are not part of a united state. 
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    truth is a human concept;  we only agree what may or may not may be true and it varies due to individual perception@John_C_87
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

     Guess what, dead is not dead if they can bring you back to life


    You’ve gone all Deepak Chopra yet again , every time you bring a topic like this up you go the pseudoscience new agey route why’s that ?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4919 Pts   -  
    @maxx ;
    actually that is simply false logic. it is like i can prove you are not here, you are not in canada, or mexico  so you must be someplace else and if you are someplace else, then you can not be here.  Dont give me that bull
    If you are trying to appeal to the law of non-contradiction, then I might point out that this assumption proves my point.



    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    it proves no point at all. you are simply using false logic@Happy_Killbot
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    de3e you just claimed dead is dead.  it is not. they can  bring some dead back to life. therfore death is not absolute@Dee
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @maxx
    Truth is only a general concept to liars...
    truth is a condition that is held or not held true.
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx



    You’re doing your usual dance that you do when you want to push new agey bu-ll cr-ap first step you make something up as in an appeal to authority by stating science agrees with you which is an appeal to authority , which as usual is a fabrication to push your nonsense .....

     even science does not know what happens to conscious when the body dies

    That statement is utter nonsense 

    de3e you just claimed dead is dead.  it is not

    I’m afraid it most certainly is 

    they can  bring some dead back to life.

    They cannot you’re playing around with terms you don’t comprehend as in clinical death /biological death 



     therfore death is not absolute

    Deepak and you really should get together 


  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -   edited May 4
    umm, no.  biological death is just death where one is dead long enough for your tisses to rot and fall apart and your organs to deterioate.  when you die , this does not happen instantly; it takes time. at the moment of death, no one is biological dead so to speak for  deterioation of the body takes time. death is death and in some situations doctors can bring a person back, as long as certain conditions apply.  once you die you are dead. As well you are saying there are different kinds of death, and that statement alone shows death is not absolute.Dee
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    you made a statement, so prove it.  Show me where in nature where lies exist; show me where animals lie.  Truth is a concept that belongs in the realm of humans.@John_C_87
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    umm, no.  biological death is just death where one is dead long enough for your tisses to rot and fall apart and your organs to deterioate.  when you die , this does not happen instantly;


    Ummm, Biological death means that’s it there’s no coming back from this thus your continued confusion 

    it takes time. at the moment of death, no one is biological dead so to speak for  deterioation of the body takes time. death is death and in some situations doctors can bring a person back, as long as certain conditions apply.

    Your red herring is citing clinical death as complete in all cases most know that  biological deaths is what is meant by death

      once you die you are dead. As well you are saying there are different kinds of death, and that statement alone shows death is not absolute

    I’m not , you’re talking about what’s termed “clinical death” not “biological death “ when I talk of death I’m talking of biological death so your deflection is as usual noted and sadly typical 


  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -   edited May 4
    do you want the definition of biological death?  of course there is no coming back from it because by that time the deteroration has gone too far.  whewn you die  your cells take many days to die. That is a science fact. Your definition is that there is no coming back from biolgical death; You know why?  Because after a certain point the cells die.  it is not instant. look it up.  clinical death is death. biolgical death is death that has perceded to the point in where the cells and organs begin to rot and die.  biology 101.  what happens when they decide not to revive a "clinically" dead person?  they eventually become biologically dead. You are too hung up on terms. death is death. some can be revived if conditions are correct.@Dee
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

     You are too hung up on terms

    LOL .....my original statement was .....  humans die is an absolute truth 

    . death is death.

    Yep 

     some can be revived if conditions are correct.

    Then they are not dead .......you’re finding this very difficult aren’t you? 
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    they were dead before they were revived..as well if there are different kinds of death such as clinical and biological, then death can not be absolute. You are arguing against your own argument@Dee
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    they were dead before they were revived..

    Biological death is the term you still don’t comprehend 

    as well if there are different kinds of death such as clinical and biological

    Biological death is the term you’re still running from 

    , then death can not be absolute. 

    Biological death is absolute 

    You are arguing against your own argument

    Ehhhh no you’re one who introduced a straw man as in “clinical death “ 
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    is clinical death death or not?  @Dee
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    is clinical death death or not? clinical death is death, yet some can be revived; others continue on to a biological death. You are not biologically dead untill you can not be revived and even then, your cells are still alive, hence .. science has shown that cells do not die untill days after one is pronounced "biologically dead.  Your organs do not immeaditly fall apart, they take time also. if there are different types of death, then death is a varible and can not be absoulte.@Dee
  • @maxx
    Prove it is not the appropriate response, you can only be shown where a lie exists you can hold as a condition of the event.
    The biggest natural illusion is the color in the sky during a sunset, animals that hide, or approach from downwind when stalk prey are lying about their presence in an area.
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    those are natural phenomenons. as well animals engaged in hunting or hiding from a predator is their natural behavior; humans giving a human perception to an animal does not mean that the animal has the human equivalent. an appearence of something does not make it so. an illusion in nature is based upon our perception of it; hence it is us that engage in the so called lie. @John_C_87
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx


    is clinical death death or not?


    You mean you post up a terminology you alone use and want me to explain what your terminology means .....WOW!
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -   edited May 4
    @maxx

    is clinical death death or not?

    You create a straw man and want me to argue against your straw man .......Clinical death is a doctors mistaken opinion on the person in question 

     clinical death is death, yet some can be revived;

    Then they are not dead 

    others continue on to a biological death.

    Now they are 

     You are not biologically dead untill you can not be revived and even then, your cells are still alive, hence .. science has shown that cells do not die untill days after one is pronounced "biologically dead. 

    Science has shown when you are biologically dead you’re dead 

     Your organs do not immeaditly fall apart, they take time also. if there are different types of death, then death is a varible and can not be absoulte.

    Nonsense , all death of everything is a certainty , unless of course you can prove otherwise 


    You started out by creating a straw man as in “clinical death “ then resorted to saying science agreed with you , then saying cells live on and now you’re back to clinical death .......you really are a believer in every bit of new agey bu-ll cr-ap out there 
  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    absoultue truth is something that is true everywhere for everyone at the same time. everyone has different ideals about what death is, so that means it is not absoulte.  when your heart stops and you stop breathing, you are dead. This is a death not mistaken by doctors; how silly can you get?  it is death. you stopped breathing and your heart quit. they revive some of them. they were dead, then not. that is not absolute. @Dee
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -   edited May 4
    @maxx

    absoultue truth is something that is true everywhere for everyone at the same time. everyone has different ideals about what death is, so that means it is not absoulte.


    Anyone who has different ideas about what biological death is would be defined as an id-iot ( that’s you )

      when your heart stops and you stop breathing, you are dead

    Wow .....thanks for that but again your st-upidity has trapped you 

    This is a death not mistaken by doctors; how silly can you get?

    Ahhh right so experts in the field are wrong and Mad Maxx is right , clinical death does not necessarily mean death you id -iot do a bit of research you clown 



      it is death. you stopped breathing and your heart quit. they revive some of them. they were dead, then not. that is not absolute.

    Read above you half - wit as usual you just keep digging holes for yourself in an attempt to cover your st-upidity 



  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    you flat fail to prove clinical death is not death.  it is death. your hear stopped, you are not breathing. you are dead and you can not return to life with out a revival. That means you are dead. why do you think it has the word death attached to it??@Dee
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx


    you flat fail to prove clinical death is not death.  

    Still throwing up your straw man argument , I never mentioned “clinical death “ that’s on you , clinical death does not necessarily spell death , but you’re  to st-pid to grasp this 

    pit is death. your hear stopped, you are not breathing. you are dead and you can not return to life with out a revival. That means you are dead. why do you think it has the word death attached to it??


    You’re very confused why not look up the term you don’t understand “clinical death “ and find out for yourself instead of demonstrating consistently what an id-iot you are?


  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -  
    it is my post, i said prove me wrong.  now as well youi are saying that clinical death is not always death.  guess what. that means death is not absolute@Dee
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    Here you go you im - becile ......


     The criteria for using that term are “poorly defined,” said said Dr. Lance Becker, a University of Pennsylvania emergency medicine specialist and an American Heart Association spokesman. “In its crudest form, clinical death just means that a doctor thinks he’s dead — somebody standing at the bedside believes he is dead,” he said.

    And a more elaborate exploration of the term, according to the Encyclopedia of Death and Dying:

    Usually this term referred to the cessation of cardiac function, as might occur during a medical procedure or a heart attack. A physician could make this determination quickly and then try CPR or other techniques in an effort to restore cardiac function. “Clinical death” was therefore a useful term because it acknowledged that one of the basic criteria for determining death applied to the situation, yet it did not stand in the way of resuscitation efforts. This concept had its drawbacks, though. Many health care professionals as well as members of the general public were not ready to accept the idea of a temporary death, which seemed like a contradiction in terms. Furthermore, clinical death had no firm standing in legal tradition or legislative action.

  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    Here you go mo-ron ......

    Read the first one in bold just for you which you being a re-tard retorted “ that’s silly”.....

     The criteria for using that term are “poorly defined,” said said Dr. Lance Becker, a University of Pennsylvania emergency medicine specialist and an American Heart Association spokesman. “In its crudest form, clinical death just means that a doctor thinks he’s dead — somebody standing at the bedside believes he is dead,” he said.

    And a more elaborate exploration of the term, according to the Encyclopedia of Death and Dying:

    Usually this term referred to the cessation of cardiac function, as might occur during a medical procedure or a heart attack. A physician could make this determination quickly and then try CPR or other techniques in an effort to restore cardiac function. “Clinical death” was therefore a useful term because it acknowledged that one of the basic criteria for determining death applied to the situation, yet it did not stand in the way of resuscitation efforts. This concept had its drawbacks, though. Many health care professionals as well as members of the general public were not ready to accept the idea of a temporary death, which seemed like a contradiction in terms. Furthermore, clinical death had no firm standing in legal tradition or legislative action.

  • maxxmaxx 569 Pts   -   edited May 4
    your heat stops, no breathing, blood ceases to flow; you are dead. if it is not death, then tell me; what happens if the doctor goes away/ You stay dead. I am sure that the machines know to flat line when the heart ceases.. many clincical dead can be revived, and can be sustained on artifical life suport system but will die again once taken off too soon. being dead and then revived means death is not absolute.  clinical death is still death. the doctors are not mistaken. if so then there would be no need for revival.  do you not consider it death when someone dies? when their heart stops? they are no longer breathing? their blood no longer flows? Just because they are not past the point where their death is reverible does not mean that they are not dead. If they were not dead, there would be no need to bring them back to life. The body is dead, the brain itself is still alive as well as the cells, but will die soon if not revived. the body is dead. they are brought back to life. death ios not absolute.@Dee
  • DeeDee 3940 Pts   -   edited May 4
    @maxx


    Here you go again mo-ron ......

    Read the first one in bold just for you which you being a re-tard retorted “ that’s silly”.....

     The criteria for using that term are “poorly defined,” said said Dr. Lance Becker, a University of Pennsylvania emergency medicine specialist and an American Heart Association spokesman. “In its crudest form, clinical death just means that a doctor thinks he’s dead — somebody standing at the bedside believes he is dead,” he said.

    And a more elaborate exploration of the term, according to the Encyclopedia of Death and Dying:

    Usually this term referred to the cessation of cardiac function, as might occur during a medical procedure or a heart attack. A physician could make this determination quickly and then try CPR or other techniques in an effort to restore cardiac function. “Clinical death” was therefore a useful term because it acknowledged that one of the basic criteria for determining death applied to the situation, yet it did not stand in the way of resuscitation efforts. This concept had its drawbacks, though. Many health care professionals as well as members of the general public were not ready to accept the idea of a temporary death, which seemed like a contradiction in terms. Furthermore, clinical death had no firm standing in legal tradition or legislative action.

  • @maxx
    I stated quite clearly, truth is a condition and you may or may not hold that condition by choice when you fail to hold a condition as true it does not make anything false you are only by explanation changing the limits of the condition and implicating your self in the dereliction of duty.
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