Which side has the moral high ground in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com - Debate Anything The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com
frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

DebateIsland.com is the largest online debate website globally by activity where anyone can anonymously and easily debate online, casually or formally, while connecting with their friends and others. Users, regardless of debating skill level, can civilly debate just about anything online in a text-based online debate website that supports five easy-to-use and fun debating formats ranging from Casual, to Formalish, to Lincoln-Douglas Formal. In addition, people can improve their debating skills with the help of revolutionary artificial intelligence-powered technology on our debate website. DebateIsland is totally free and provides the best online debate experience of any debate website.


Communities








DebateIsland Referral Program: Get a Free Month of DebateIsland Diamond Premium Membership ($4.99 Value) Per Each New User That You Refer!

Which side has the moral high ground in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict?

Debate Information

This is a contentious and complicated issue, and I hope it brings out the worst of what DI has to offer. Go!!!!   
«13



Debra AI Prediction

Predicted To Win
Predicted 2nd Place
22%
Margin

Details +




Post Argument Now Debate Details +

    Arguments


  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2609 Pts   -  
    I ultimately blame the UN... It all goes back to that sh*tty 1947 partition like a piece of gruyère, some very incompetent people drew the map...  It was a bad deal for both party from the get go, nothing good was ever coming out of those lines on the map and never will... 

    That said, the illegal and continuous expansion of Israel is legalized ethnic displacement, clear human right abuse, it is an apartheid state and a settler colonialist system, in violation of international laws...

    Now, are Hamas rockets the answer?  It should never be of course, but successive Israeli governments colonial policies and the international community inability to hold Israel accountable for its numerous violations, has left them no legal or political options...  So in a general sense, the Palestinians are in the right in my opinion.  
    Happy_KillbotDeepiloteerTreeManSkepticalOneOakTownAJean
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 4994 Pts   -  
    This conflict is one of the most complicated and intractable dilemmas of the modern era.

    On one hand, it is unacceptable to give Israel and moral consideration given their continuous illegal expansion and mistreatment of the Palestinians, on land that is rightfully theirs as the Zionist claims based on religious and cultural history is imo, illegitimate.

    On the other hand, the Palestinian insurgency has effectively given the Israel all of the reason to make their claims in the name of "self-defense" which is absurd for a nuclear armed state with the 4th largest standing army in the world.

    At any rate, we must also consider the political implications of the US, where criticizing Israel has been dubbed political suicide. Evangelical Christian voters motivated by conspiracies involving the "end times" as prophesized in the bible heavily influence US politics. In addition, critique of Israel or opposition to Zionism might also be labeled as anti-Semitic despite the obvious lack of rational justification. The US continues to give Israel significant political, industrial, logistical, and economic support.
    PlaffelvohfenDeepiloteerOakTownATreeManJean
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen

    I'm gonna play devil's advocate here.

    If there's any cultural/ethnic group that needs a homeland for the sake of their defense, it's the Jewish people. Even before the holocaust they've been kicked around like they were vermin and made the scapegoats for whatever ailments any given country could throw at them. And the fact that the Jewish people who haven't had a homeland of their own for the better part of a millennium, and yet they have still maintained their own language, traditions, and their own identity is all the more reason they should have their own land. 

    The partition lines may have been skewed, but even if all the concerned parties were to come up with a perfectly balanced plan, would it ever have been accepted anyway? The Israelis were up against people who never thought they were a legitimate country and didn't deserve one of their own to begin with. Because of that, literally anything and everything the Israelis do will be considered an infringement on everybody. The Israelis are constantly accused of human rights violations by ALL of the countries that borders them, but it was all those same countries that tried to invade Israel in the 60s, and all the rest of the world could muster in response was point the finger at Israel for doing what any country would do when they are invaded by all of their neighbors and defend themselves. It almost seemed like they were being shamed for effectively defending their country. 

    I don't claim that the Israelis are absolutely innocent, and there were some things they did that were shameful. But the fact that they are literally surrounded by enemies on every border, and not only do those enemies consider their country an illegitimate country, they also think the Jewish people do not deserve a country of their own anyway. That, coupled with the fact that they are one of the most oppressed (easily arguably the most oppressed) ethnic group in the world, it's very easy to see why every thing the Israelis do is put under a very large microscope. How much of this situation does not stem from pure antisemitism? I'm sure we all know that number is nowhere close to zero.             
    Jean
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2609 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
     - ...they've been kicked around like they were vermin and made the scapegoats for whatever ailments any given country could throw at them. And the fact that the Jewish people who haven't had a homeland of their own for the better part of a millennium, and yet they have still maintained their own language, traditions, and their own identity is all the more reason they should have their own land. 

    - The Israelis were up against people who never thought they were a legitimate country and didn't deserve one of their own to begin with. 
    The very same can be said of the Rohingya, the Romani (Gypsies), the Kurds, the Uyghurs and many other stateless or traditionally nomadic ethnic groups...  You're special pleading... It doesn't justify anything.

    The only difference is the Holocaust... If anyone had to pay reparation for that, it was Germany so maybe the new state should've been carved out of their quite large territory...  
    The Israelis are constantly accused of human rights violations by ALL of the countries that borders them

    The problem, is that the state of Israel has been violating human rights after 1968. And for that they have only their own government to blame...

    But the inability of the international community to hold anyone (not just Israel or Palestine, but China, Myanmar, North Korea, Iran, the US, the UK, Canada, Chile... Literally anyone!!) accountable for anything is the problem... What's the point of having international laws if they can't be enforced??? 

    Again, this whole mess is Humanity's failure to recognize itself... We're really still primitive apes, albeit a lot more dangerous... 

    piloteerTreeManHappy_KillbotJoeKerrJean
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen
    If anyone had to pay reparation for that, it was Germany
    By claiming that, I assume you are implying Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust.  Wrong!

    The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the prominent Palestinian leader at the time, conspired with Hitler to find a Final Solution for the Jews.

    Here is a picture of the Grand Mufti meeting with Hitler:  https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/mufti.jpeg?w=800&quality=85
    piloteerPlaffelvohfenJean
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Hamas' slogan, "Free Palestine from the river to the sea!" is a call to eliminate the State of Israel totally.  This alone eliminates Hamas from claiming the moral high ground.  And the current conflict is giving Hamas the opportunity to take leadership of the Palestinian people.  

    That doesn't bode well for peace.
    Jean
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @Plaffelvohfen

    You've got your pessimism down to a science, that cannot be denied.  

    I personally feel it is a failure on the part of both the Palestinians and Israelis, and their capitulation to the impulse of war is shameful. It's kind of hard to argue that either side has the moral high ground here, especially since innocent civilians are caught in the crosshairs of two opposing government entities. I do believe Israel should allow the Palestinians to be a sovereign state that holds their own elections, but I also believe Palestine should purge itself of the Iranian influence that feeds terrorism. Hamas hasn't gotten the Palestinians closer to their goal of being a separate and sovereign state. I agree that the chosen location for the homeland for the Jewish people is not ideal, but is it really morally acceptable for the Palestinians to continue to reject the legitimately of Israel and start any of their negotiations on basis of that viewpoint?

    As far as the failures of the international community I'll ask, is it really the moral duty of one country to be the police of the world? Or is it the duty of a bunch of countries to do so? Even if every last country on earth were aligned with the UN, can we really push a global morality, or should we entertain the idea that at some point, the oppressed people of a country also have a moral duty to do whatever they can to defend themselves? Obvious if the UK attempted to nuke the whole eastern portion of Canada then we'd hope a few countries would come to the aid of the Canucks (I'm one, so I can use that term). But the entire world would be in a perpetual state of war if we all had to go running to every clarion call for the rights of humanity. We wish we could help everybody every time, but we can't.        
           
    Jean
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    All these Muslim countries have their rules and laws and they wouldn't let their country have more Jews than Muslims.
    They need to follow Israel's rules and laws just as they make people obey theirs.  
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    All these Muslim countries have their rules and laws and they wouldn't let their country have more Jews than Muslims.
    They need to follow Israel's rules and laws just as they make people obey theirs.  
    Do they? If "all these Muslim countries" were to recognize Isreal as a sovereign nation, why should Isreal not be obligated to recognize "all these Muslim nations as sovereign nations of their own? I'm not quite sure what you think gives Isreal a stronger claim to the entire region, but I'm sure it's probably some kind of misunderstanding of some kind of religious doctrine, and not objective reality.      
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    All these Muslim countries have their rules and laws and they wouldn't let their country have more Jews than Muslims.
    They need to follow Israel's rules and laws just as they make people obey theirs.  
    Do they? If "all these Muslim countries" were to recognize Isreal as a sovereign nation, why should Isreal not be obligated to recognize "all these Muslim nations as sovereign nations of their own? I'm not quite sure what you think gives Isreal a stronger claim to the entire region, but I'm sure it's probably some kind of misunderstanding of some kind of religious doctrine, and not objective reality.      
    What I said about Israel has nothing to do with religion. The Jews that reject Jesus are cut off from God, according to the scriptures. 

    Why don't you understand that Israel can run their own country the way they want, just as the Islamic countries run their countries the way they want?  
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    All these Muslim countries have their rules and laws and they wouldn't let their country have more Jews than Muslims.
    They need to follow Israel's rules and laws just as they make people obey theirs.  
    Do they? If "all these Muslim countries" were to recognize Isreal as a sovereign nation, why should Isreal not be obligated to recognize "all these Muslim nations as sovereign nations of their own? I'm not quite sure what you think gives Isreal a stronger claim to the entire region, but I'm sure it's probably some kind of misunderstanding of some kind of religious doctrine, and not objective reality.      
    What I said about Israel has nothing to do with religion. The Jews that reject Jesus are cut off from God, according to the scriptures. 

    Why don't you understand that Israel can run their own country the way they want, just as the Islamic countries run their countries the way they want?  
    Are you backtracking here? You claimed "all these Muslim countries" "need to follow Israel's rules and laws", but all of a sudden, you're claiming both countries should be treated as sovereign nations with their own rules and laws. So which is it here hombre?, because you're on both sides of the coin right now.    
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 819 Pts   -   edited May 26
    One side fires rockets intended to kill as many people as possible.
    They also hide and shield themselves in highly populated areas, schools, ect because they know the opposition tries its best not to cause civilian casualties.



    PlaffelvohfenDebater123JoeKerr
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -   edited May 26
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    All these Muslim countries have their rules and laws and they wouldn't let their country have more Jews than Muslims.
    They need to follow Israel's rules and laws just as they make people obey theirs.  
    Do they? If "all these Muslim countries" were to recognize Isreal as a sovereign nation, why should Isreal not be obligated to recognize "all these Muslim nations as sovereign nations of their own? I'm not quite sure what you think gives Isreal a stronger claim to the entire region, but I'm sure it's probably some kind of misunderstanding of some kind of religious doctrine, and not objective reality.      
    What I said about Israel has nothing to do with religion. The Jews that reject Jesus are cut off from God, according to the scriptures. 

    Why don't you understand that Israel can run their own country the way they want, just as the Islamic countries run their countries the way they want?  
    Are you backtracking here? You claimed "all these Muslim countries" "need to follow Israel's rules and laws", but all of a sudden, you're claiming both countries should be treated as sovereign nations with their own rules and laws. So which is it here hombre?, because you're on both sides of the coin right now.    
    They need to follow what Israel's rules and laws are when they come to visit or live in Israel. 

    You are misunderstanding something so simple.

    If an American, a Britain, a German, an African, an Israeli goes to an Islamic country, then they have to obey the Islamic nation's rules and laws.  So why shouldn't Israel have rules and laws that have to be obeyed? 
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @TrueLove

    The Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials. They are forced to obey Israeli law. I agree Israel should be treated as sovereign nation, but so should Palestine, but they are not treated as sovereign nation at all. 

    The only thing I'm "misunderstanding" here is that you have made two distinctly different arguments. First you said all the Muslim countries should be forced to follow Israel's rules and laws. Now you're suddenly saying all the countries involved should be treated as sovereign nations. Just so we're clear here, you do understand that Palestine is not treated as sovereign nation, right?      
    Plaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -   edited May 27
    @MichaelElpers

    Portraying the actions of Hamas as if they are the proper representatives of all of Palestine is disingenuous. And claiming they purposely shield themselves with civilians is also less than factual. The Israeli military was purposely targeting large apartment buildings with civilians inside.   
    PlaffelvohfenJoeKerr
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    This is a contentious and complicated issue, and I hope it brings out the worst of what DI has to offer. Go!!!!   

    This has become a contentious issue by those who try to deal with, including the parties themselves.

    The cause of the conflict is very straight forward and hasn't changed since time immemorial. It is about human beings with their mindsets still immersed in the primitive past trying to prove to each other who has the best imaginary friend. Simply put, they vehemently hate each other's guts as they always have done and always will until they can pull themselves out of the barbaric dark ages and start becoming a part of our modern, civilized world.

  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw
    Jews are not civilized?  Let's compare Nobel Prizes:  How many Nobel Prizes have gone to Jews compared to Palestinians?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    The Israeli military was purposely targeting large apartment buildings with civilians inside. 
    And how do you know that? 
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -   edited May 27

    The Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials.

    The Palestinian National Authority has held several elections in the Palestinian territories, including elections for president, the legislature and local councils. The PNA has a multi-party system, with numerous parties.



     They are forced to obey Israeli law. I agree Israel should be treated as sovereign nation, but so should Palestine, but they are not treated as sovereign nation at all. 


    Do they not want to take over what they lost?


    The only thing I'm "misunderstanding" here is that you have made two distinctly different arguments. First you said all the Muslim countries should be forced to follow Israel's rules and laws. Now you're suddenly saying all the countries involved should be treated as sovereign nations. Just so we're clear here, you do understand that Palestine is not treated as sovereign nation, right?      

    I was talking about Islamic countries.  I said nothing about sovereignty.  

    When the USA won world war II, Germany was beholden to America.  When the British took hold of Israel, including Palestine, it is beholden to Britain.   Israel holds to the way of democracy, and so should the Palestinians.  Can you imagine if Germany decided to hate another religion and nation and speak of destroying it and it be called a Sovereign nation after doing so?

    Plaffelvohfen
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • Debater123Debater123 543 Pts   -   edited May 27
    @piloteer
    I would say that the Israeli's have the moral and legitimate high ground in this conflict for several reasons:

    1) San Remo Conference, Faisal-Weizmann Agreement
    In San Remo, it was decided that Britain would create a Jewish state/home in the area of Palestine(which is Isreal and Jordan today) fulfilling the Balfour declaration. This, therefore, justifies the existence of Isreal giving them the high ground in terms of existence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Remo_conference
    The Faisal Weizmann agreement was an agreement made by the leaders of the Arab and Zionist world, agreeing on a Territory for the state of Isreal that is actually bigger than the one today.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal%E2%80%93Weizmann_Agreement
    FileFaisal-Weizmann mappng

    2) Arab aggression and inability to compromise.
    Even as the Arabs would be given far more than the Jews can ever dream of, with the Arab world stretching from Mauritania to Iraq. They still want the little speck called Isreal and refuse to accept that it exists under a non-Arab rule. This by itself is an inability to compromise, but even when they were given 76% of the land originally promised for Isreal to create Transjordan, they still could not accept it, and in 1936 they revolted, which eventually lead to the peel commission. This peel commission offered that the Arabs be given the vast majority of the land originally promised to the Jews, and yet they still rejected it! https://www.britannica.com/event/Peel-Commission

    Yet, with the 1947 Partition plan, which still gives Palestine a country, they rejected it, even though they had gained the vast majority of the territory originally promised to Israel
    There was also much Arab violence against Jews, such as the 1920 Nebi Musa Riots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots
    There was also the 6-day war, Yom-Kippur War, and other wars, all of which were either directly or indirectly started by Arabs.

    3) Continued Palestinian Attacks.
    The Palestinians still continue terror campaigns in Isreal, with the most recent one being the Hamas rocket attacks this year, with the prime goal of killing civilians, this is another incident in a now consistent trend of Arab groups to 'liberate Palestine', such as the 2nd Intifada and previous conflicts between Jews and Arabs.

    All in all, I would say that the Jews have the moral high ground and just a high ground in this overall. No group I would say has been treated as badly as the Jews, and as persecuted as them, therefore no group deserves a state more than them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

    Plaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    https://www.npr.org/2021/05/15/997124491/israeli-airstrike-in-gaza-destroys-building-with-ap-bureau

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57148097

    I am in no way claiming the Palestinians do not have blood on their hands, and most especially the militant groups and the Palestinians who support them. But Israel has, and continues to violate international law regarding civilian safety during open warfare. Just because Hamas violates international laws, it doesn't give Israel a free pass to do the same thing on a larger scale. Targeting an office building that holds offices for media personnel, including members of the associated press is obviously ethically wrong. It is most abhorrent of the Israeli military and government to target Palestinian schools and hospitals. This is especially true because the Palestinians are already an impoverished society, and to target important hubs of their  infrastructure is obviously not for the purpose of merely defending Israel. It is specifically for the purpose of destroying the Palestinian infrastructure and cause economic harm, and harm to the Palestinian healthcare system.         


  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @TrueLove

    The PNA is in no way recognized as a legitimate Palestinian government universally throughout all of the Palestinian territories. Even so, the first elections for the PNA were held in 1994. The occupation of the Palestinian territories by Israel happened more than a quarter century before the elections for the PNA took place. Those elections have since been suspended. So I still stand by my assertion that "the Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials". This is more especially true when we consider that the occupied territories are subject to road block checkpoints that turn a twenty minute drive into a two hour delay, and random searches of Palestinian people by the Israeli military.  
    Plaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @piloteer
    This is a contentious and complicated issue, and I hope it brings out the worst of what DI has to offer. Go!!!!   

    This has become a contentious issue by those who try to deal with, including the parties themselves.

    The cause of the conflict is very straight forward and hasn't changed since time immemorial. It is about human beings with their mindsets still immersed in the primitive past trying to prove to each other who has the best imaginary friend. Simply put, they vehemently hate each other's guts as they always have done and always will until they can pull themselves out of the barbaric dark ages and start becoming a part of our modern, civilized world.

    Although your view is a tad misanthropic, and a little too cynical for my taste, I do agree that it is a failure on the part of the Israeli people, and Palestinian people, to stubbornly not recognize each others legitimacy as a sovereign nation.  
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Debater123Debater123 543 Pts   -  
    @piloteer But they do all that because Hamas makes them targets by hiding weapons, soldiers, and other assets in them, as in the case with the media outlets and schools and hospitals, Isreal does not want to kill civilians or damage their buildings, that is not their goal. Their goal is to damage and hinder Hamas, and as Hamas places their assets into civilian infrastructure and buildings, Hamas makes their civilian areas targets of Isreal.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • MichaelElpersMichaelElpers 819 Pts   -  
    @piloteer. Israel doesn't do it on a larger scale, the only reason palestine hasn't wiped Israel of the face of the planet is because Israel is more technologically advanced.

    As far as the ap building goes, Israel warned the people in the building in advance that it was a target.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    I see no need to  respond  to your latest claims  that Israel  is committing war crimes. MichaelElpers and Debater123 have responded superbly. 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    A thought experiment:  How many tactical nukes would Israel need to cancel Gaza altogether?  What's stopping Israel from doing it?  If Hamas had nukes, how many seconds would it wait before launching them?
    TrueLovePlaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -   edited May 27
    @JulesKorngold @Debater123 @MichaelElpers ;

    Both sides are guilty of violating international law. Hamas is equally guilty because they do hide themselves in heavily populated neighborhood. But the entirety of the occupied territories is a heavily populated area to begin with. There's not too much dense forest, or wide open fields for Hamas, or any other resistance group to fight in that will not have civilians within the vicinity. Although I do not support, or agree with the Palestinian militants end goal of destroying Israel because Israel is certainly deserving of being considered a sovereign nation, but it's not very surprising for there to be a resistance militia when there is an occupation of a portion of another sovereign nation. 

    I do not claim that Israel wants to kill civilians, but destroying hospitals and schools, and other important economic institutions are actions that can economically destroy a nation state. Those are not defensive military strikes, they are very aggressive offensive tactics used to destroy a country. Israel has the right to defend themselves, but they do not have the power to make all of the international community accept that their aggressive tactics are solidly ethical.           
  • Debater123Debater123 543 Pts   -   edited May 27
    @piloteer Violating international law is irrelevant in this context, if Hamas wished to preserve civilian life they would place their assets into dedicated warehouses and buildings rather than mixing it in civilian buildings and assets. As I said before, Isreal has no choice to destroy hospitals and schools in order to defeat Hamas. Hamas hides their assets in there in order to make the civilians targets for international sympathy and to dissuade Israeli attacks on their assets.
    MichaelElpersPlaffelvohfen
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    A thought experiment:  How many tactical nukes would Israel need to cancel Gaza altogether?  What's stopping Israel from doing it?  If Hamas had nukes, how many seconds would it wait before launching them?
    It's a tad insincere to automatically assume Hamas would willfully doom themselves and all of the Palestinian people to a retaliatory nuclear strike from Israel if Hamas were to fire a nuclear strike on Israel.  
    Plaffelvohfen
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -   edited May 28
    @piloteer
    1. You didn't answer my question:  What's stopping Israel from using tactical nukes (with minimal radiation fallout) on Gaza right now?
    2. You said:  It's a tad insincere to automatically assume Hamas would willfully doom themselves and all of the Palestinian people to a retaliatory nuclear strike from Israel if Hamas were to fire a nuclear strike on Israel.   Why would Israel annihilate Palestinians in the West Bank during a conflict with Hamas?  It never did so before.

  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @Debater123

    Violations of international law are always relevant, especially when an open conflict is happening. Illegal evictions and demolishing peoples houses for the purpose of expanding your territory is also a clear violation of international law. Israel does give notices before striking civilian occupied targets, but that also gives notice to the militants, and civilians still suffer and die in the process. If it is Israel's intention to destroy Hamas, then using a strategy that alerts the enemy militants of their strikes is not the best method, because, well....................it literally alerts the enemy before the strikes. Therefore, it will never be a tactic that is capable of neutralizing, or stopping Hamas, let alone destroying them.           
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    it will never be a tactic that is capable of neutralizing, or stopping Hamas, let alone destroying them
    Giving notice to a targeted site can still be effective.  Imagine several Hamas rocket launchers in a schoolyard.  Israel gives a one-hour notice.  Everyone clears out.  Bye-bye rocket launchers.  Nobody hurt.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    @TrueLove

    The PNA is in no way recognized as a legitimate Palestinian government universally throughout all of the Palestinian territories. Even so, the first elections for the PNA were held in 1994. The occupation of the Palestinian territories by Israel happened more than a quarter century before the elections for the PNA took place. Those elections have since been suspended. So I still stand by my assertion that "the Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials". This is more especially true when we consider that the occupied territories are subject to road block checkpoints that turn a twenty minute drive into a two hour delay, and random searches of Palestinian people by the Israeli military.  
    They need to submit to the country that overtook them.  That is how it works.
    Plaffelvohfen
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    misanthropic, and a little too cynical for my taste

    Reporting on the hated and violence perpetrated and carried out by others is hardly my having a misanthropic and cynical view, is it? I have talked with and mixed with these people and the situation is more than just not recognising each others' legitimacy of sovereign state.

    The root problem is that they hate each others guts....don't blame the messenger of sad tidings.

  • Debater123Debater123 543 Pts   -   edited May 28
    @piloteer
    In what way is International law relevant? I only see Hamas making illegal evictions and demolishing homes and not Isreal.
     Another thing, if Isreal gave notices to both militants and civilians, why would civilians fail to leave and not militants? 2000 people have died in Gaza due to retaliatory strikes, that number should be 0 or close to it if people were constantly told about strikes in their area.
    PlaffelvohfenJoeKerr
  • piloteer said:
    This is a contentious and complicated issue, and I hope it brings out the worst of what DI has to offer. Go!!!!   
    The side which is held outside the conflict holds the moral ground, the issue is made more complicated only by the request made on what would be reparation of genocide.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    @Debater123
    2000 people have died in Gaza
    Who is counting and reporting the deaths?  Hamas would certainly lie about the number and whether they were civilians or terrorists.

    I know for a fact even the United States lied about death counts.  My friend was a warrant officer during the Vietnam War and was ordered to lie about the death count of battles his unit was in.
    TrueLove
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @Debater123
    2000 people have died in Gaza
    Who is counting and reporting the deaths?  Hamas would certainly lie about the number and whether they were civilians or terrorists.

    I know for a fact even the United States lied about death counts.  My friend was a warrant officer during the Vietnam War and was ordered to lie about the death count of battles his unit was in.
    So couldn't this mean the Israeli military is lying about the number of people who were killed by seriously underestimating the death count?
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    @Debater123
    2000 people have died in Gaza
    Who is counting and reporting the deaths?  Hamas would certainly lie about the number and whether they were civilians or terrorists.

    I know for a fact even the United States lied about death counts.  My friend was a warrant officer during the Vietnam War and was ordered to lie about the death count of battles his unit was in.
    So couldn't this mean the Israeli military is lying about the number of people who were killed by seriously underestimating the death count?
    That wouldn't make sense, since the death rate isn't terribly high.  
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @piloteer
    In what way is International law relevant? I only see Hamas making illegal evictions and demolishing homes and not Isreal.
     Another thing, if Isreal gave notices to both militants and civilians, why would civilians fail to leave and not militants? 2000 people have died in Gaza due to retaliatory strikes, that number should be 0 or close to it if people were constantly told about strikes in their area.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

    It is well known throughout the international community that Israel allows the development of settlements which are a violation of international law.  
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -   edited May 29
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    @TrueLove

    The PNA is in no way recognized as a legitimate Palestinian government universally throughout all of the Palestinian territories. Even so, the first elections for the PNA were held in 1994. The occupation of the Palestinian territories by Israel happened more than a quarter century before the elections for the PNA took place. Those elections have since been suspended. So I still stand by my assertion that "the Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials". This is more especially true when we consider that the occupied territories are subject to road block checkpoints that turn a twenty minute drive into a two hour delay, and random searches of Palestinian people by the Israeli military.  
    They need to submit to the country that overtook them.  That is how it works.
    Were you actually satisfied with what you've said here?!?!? Are you really arguing that sovereign nations have not the right to defend themselves?

     If your country was occupied by another country and they forced you to relocate to make room for other people to live there, and you must abide by their laws and be subject to searches at roadside checkpoints, you would not try to resist in any manner? I certainly hope you are not a citizen of my country because we now all know you would capitulate to, and possibly cooperate with an invading military force!!!   
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    The Jewish community has a right to exist in their own sovereign land. It is not a reparation of genocide for them to habe a homeland.  
  • piloteer said:
    @John_C_87

    The Jewish community has a right to exist in their own sovereign land. It is not a reparation of genocide for them to habe a homeland.  
    So in basic principle, you believe religion has a right to reign as the sovereignty over the land, and by the use of democracy elect a King or Queen as its Lord to sit as its ambassador of that nation. We have a desire to hold land it is not a right to hold land, a constitutional right can be held as to why "Land" should be overseen by a group to act as sovereignty. I had established a form to address this debate if you want to continue in a more focused argument of interpretations of precedent both religious and legal.

    What you are asking is simple can a new King elected by democracy hold a right to declare war to capture land lost in battle? Moral high ground in any Israel - Palestine land grievance is held outside the combat and may be related to property values. In being honest there is the Potential that Isreal has less land than agreed due to the value they themselves placed on the land they occupied nearby. What both sides have proven beyond doubt at this point before the world is a buffer zone is none existent. The Jewish community does exist, as of the moment, a portion of that existence is under the Consitutional right set by these United States held by American Law. American interests in Isreal as a matter of national security are over the undermining of the President, but as Isreal does not hold what is described in the documentation as a President of the United State held by constitutional principle, that legal downplay of international legal precedent is limited.
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    @TrueLove

    The PNA is in no way recognized as a legitimate Palestinian government universally throughout all of the Palestinian territories. Even so, the first elections for the PNA were held in 1994. The occupation of the Palestinian territories by Israel happened more than a quarter century before the elections for the PNA took place. Those elections have since been suspended. So I still stand by my assertion that "the Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials". This is more especially true when we consider that the occupied territories are subject to road block checkpoints that turn a twenty minute drive into a two hour delay, and random searches of Palestinian people by the Israeli military.  
    They need to submit to the country that overtook them.  That is how it works.
    Were you actually satisfied with what you've said here?!?!? Are you really arguing that sovereign nations have not the right to defend themselves?

     If your country was occupied by another country and they forced you to relocate to make room for other people to live there, and you must abide by their laws and be subject to searches at roadside checkpoints, you would not try to resist in any manner? I certainly you are not a citizen of my country because we now all know you would capitulate to, and possibly cooperate with an invading military force!!!   
    When America won the war against Germany, Germany couldn't just do what they wanted afterwards.  That is the way it is.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • piloteerpiloteer 1307 Pts   -  
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    @TrueLove

    The PNA is in no way recognized as a legitimate Palestinian government universally throughout all of the Palestinian territories. Even so, the first elections for the PNA were held in 1994. The occupation of the Palestinian territories by Israel happened more than a quarter century before the elections for the PNA took place. Those elections have since been suspended. So I still stand by my assertion that "the Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials". This is more especially true when we consider that the occupied territories are subject to road block checkpoints that turn a twenty minute drive into a two hour delay, and random searches of Palestinian people by the Israeli military.  
    They need to submit to the country that overtook them.  That is how it works.
    Were you actually satisfied with what you've said here?!?!? Are you really arguing that sovereign nations have not the right to defend themselves?

     If your country was occupied by another country and they forced you to relocate to make room for other people to live there, and you must abide by their laws and be subject to searches at roadside checkpoints, you would not try to resist in any manner? I certainly you are not a citizen of my country because we now all know you would capitulate to, and possibly cooperate with an invading military force!!!   
    When America won the war against Germany, Germany couldn't just do what they wanted afterwards.  That is the way it is.

      Yes they could do what they wanted after the Allied forces won the war. What they did was choose to capitulate to the Allied forces. And that's what they did. The Palestinian people have chosen to not do that. And that's what they're doing.
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    TrueLove said:
    piloteer said:
    @TrueLove

    The PNA is in no way recognized as a legitimate Palestinian government universally throughout all of the Palestinian territories. Even so, the first elections for the PNA were held in 1994. The occupation of the Palestinian territories by Israel happened more than a quarter century before the elections for the PNA took place. Those elections have since been suspended. So I still stand by my assertion that "the Palestinians cannot have their own laws and rules, or even have elections for to decide who they want for their own government officials". This is more especially true when we consider that the occupied territories are subject to road block checkpoints that turn a twenty minute drive into a two hour delay, and random searches of Palestinian people by the Israeli military.  
    They need to submit to the country that overtook them.  That is how it works.
    Were you actually satisfied with what you've said here?!?!? Are you really arguing that sovereign nations have not the right to defend themselves?

     If your country was occupied by another country and they forced you to relocate to make room for other people to live there, and you must abide by their laws and be subject to searches at roadside checkpoints, you would not try to resist in any manner? I certainly you are not a citizen of my country because we now all know you would capitulate to, and possibly cooperate with an invading military force!!!   
    When America won the war against Germany, Germany couldn't just do what they wanted afterwards.  That is the way it is.

      Yes they could do what they wanted after the Allied forces won the war. What they did was choose to capitulate to the Allied forces. And that's what they did. The Palestinian people have chosen to not do that. And that's what they're doing.
    No way, Germany had to be a democracy like the United States.  

    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • Debater123Debater123 543 Pts   -   edited May 30
    @JulesKorngold Apparently I misread the number, it appears as though it is actually around 200, not 2000.
    Nonetheless, that number is mostly Hamas's fault if not entirely as they intentionally make their civilians targets.

    @piloteer
    That still doesn't explain how international law is relevant nor does it defame Israeli citizens building property in their land. Anybody within a country should have the full ability to build in unowned land controlled by their country
  • I'm having trouble decerning what is to be the focus of the moral high ground here in this discussion. In densely occupied areas properties most of the world often applies zoning to help control basic issues of argument like buildings to house people. Basic principles of governed zoning are most often set to access to and from a location, the basic concept here is to offer a place to live next to Jerusalem as a "Holly Land."

  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -   edited May 30
    @JulesKorngold Apparently I misread the number, it appears as though it is actually around 200, not 2000.
    Nonetheless, that number is mostly Hamas's fault if not entirely as they intentionally make their civilians targets.

    @piloteer
    That still doesn't explain how international law is relevant nor does it defame Israeli citizens building property in their land. Anybody within a country should have the full ability to build in unowned land controlled by their country
    Is that how it is in all the Islamic countries?  Can Jews and Christians just buy up land in their countries, to any amount?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
© 2021 DebateIsland.com, all rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch