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Baptism

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Hello, 
What is the majority view within the Anglican Church on baptism? My son has joined a new Church.They have drilled into him that all the beliefs that we have taught him are false.
At the moment we are discussing the holy sacrament of baptism with him, his new Church has convinced him that baptism is just symbolic, and that it has no real importance by giving him many examples, one of which is that in his baptism he did not receive the Holy Spirit when he was baptised. 
I contacted his new church, and they defended their position and what they preach by saying that they are part of the Church of England, and what they preach is the majority view on baptism within the Anglican Church. 
I know that within the Anglican Church there are some Churches that have this belief. Which is why I'd like to know what is the majority view on this topic, do the majority of Anglicans  believe that we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptised or is that belief in the minority ? 









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  • DeeDee 4169 Pts   -  
    It seems your main concern in what the majority believes how is this ever a good way to discover what’s true? 
  • Silvano12Silvano12 2 Pts   -  

    I know what the truth is, I did receive the Holy spirit in my baptism, however my son is convinced that Anglicans do not believe that we receive the Holy spirit in baptism. And the way to make him understand that he has received it is to make him understand that this is not my personal view but the view of the Anglican Church. 
    TreeMan
  • DeeDee 4169 Pts   -  
    @Silvano12

    I know what the truth is, I did receive the Holy spirit in my baptism,

    No you don’t you claim to know what the truth is. No you didn’t you believe you did you have zero evidence to back such a claim up 


    however my son is convinced that Anglicans do not believe that we receive the Holy spirit in baptism. 

    How would you go about proving it ? 

    And the way to make him understand that he has received it is to make him understand that this is not my personal view but the view of the Anglican Church. 

    That’s simply an appeal to authority 
    PlaffelvohfenTreeMan
  • Silvano12Silvano12 2 Pts   -  

    No you don’t you claim to know what the truth is. No you didn’t you believe you did you have zero evidence to back such a claim up

    Yes I have evidence, the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion and the book of prayer prove it, and by the way so does the bible.

    How would you go about proving it ?

    By making him understand that his new church is not following The Thirty-nine Articles of Religion nor is it following the bible, and therefore not following the true teachings of the Anglican faith.

    The problem is that my son is moving away from Christianity. To keep my post short I only mentioned one of the doctrines of this Church. They are also making him believe that the Eucharist is not important, that it can be taken once every 2 to 3 months. I attended one of his online meetings. The Lord’s prayer was not said, he has been attending these meetings for more than 6 months and he has said that he has never seen them say the Lord’s prayer. What I saw was NOT an Anglian service. I introduced him to a local vicar, the vicar explained the 39 articles, and guess what; my son didn't believe what the vicar said, because the ministers in his new church told him that what the vicar said was not what true Anglicans believe. I have enough on my mind discussing this with my son, that I love. I don’t want to be repeating myself to you, whom I don’t even know, you are welcome to your beliefs, but I won’t be replying to them anymore.

    PlaffelvohfenDeeTreeMan
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2656 Pts   -  
    Your son is not moving away from Christianity if he still believe in Christ... Lutherans, Calvinists, Eastern orthodox, Catholics, Born again Christians, Adventists, Southern Baptists, Anglicans, etc, are all just different interpretations of the same core belief in Christ...  
    DeeTreeMan
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3946 Pts   -  
    That is an old problem: "I taught my son/daughter everything, and he/she ended up following a path I did not have in mind... How do I turn him/her back to the light?" I think that the proper answer to this is: you do not. :) You realize that your offspring is an independent and free individual, and your job to begin with was not to design his/her life, but to give him/her some pointers so he/she could choose him/her own path. You do not have to approve of that path, but you are supposed to support his/her decision to follow it.

    Your son is perfectly able to figure out his religious views and decide what to accept as truth. Being exposed to many different branches of Christianity will allow him to pick the one - or a combination of the ones - that best aligns with his values. It is perfectly fine to him to come to different conclusions about what is truth and what is not than you. I am not religious, but in my view religion is somewhat like politics in this respect: you can strongly disagree with someone on it, while still loving them and respecting their views.

    Lastly, I would say that confirming with the ideas of the majority simply because they are the ideas of the majority is a bad idea. It is okay to have an opinion shared only by a small minority of people, or (as with some of my opinions) by almost no one but you. The majority may be wrong, and it often is. Further, there may not be the "right" opinion at all, and all opinions on a given subject may be partially subjective. Humans are all different, and different opinions make the most sense to them.
    Maybe your son will reject all popular churches' views and develop his own, novel view. Then he will preach this view to the world and change everybody's mind. You never know! Encourage him to think for himself and outside the box, to not be afraid of exploring unpopular opinions and questioning any authority, including your own - and something great definitely will come out of it.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1037 Pts   -  
    @Silvano12
    They have drilled into him that all the beliefs that we have taught him are false.

    And they are quite right, good on them for that.

    I don't know how old your son is but, how dare you drill into your own impressionable offspring your whacky spiritualistic views of being saved from an eternal morbid fate when you know darned well that it is a pack of lies in the first place? People like you should be held accountable under the appropriate child abuse laws.

  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 115 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: What does Scripture say

    @Silvano12

          The real question you should be asking is, "What does Scripture say?". Did individuals in the Bible always receive the Holy Spirit during Baptism? Does the Bible describe baptism as a "holy sacrament"? Does Scripture give any authority to calling something "Church of England"? Without knowledge of God's Word you are lost at sea from the beginning. Does Scripture concern itself with what the "majority believes", is not the path to perdition a wide road?

    Different denominations are not just different "interpretations" of the same core belief in Christ, they hold in what is in essence contrary doctrine, contradiction, the only way to discern those contradictions is to have a firm understanding of the ultimate authority, God's Word. Start with the milk, then move to solid food, your understanding will come. Many have moved away from the simplicity taught in Scripture to something not there, they have gone beyond the written Word and caused contention.

    Being exposed to many different branches, (which are not branches at all) of so called "Christianity" will only lead to more confusion as most of them are cults with the facade (an outward appearance that is maintained to conceal a less pleasant or creditable reality) of Christianity, it's best to get back to the basics and turn to God's Word.
      “Never argue with an id'iot They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain
  • Silvano12Silvano12 2 Pts   -  
    What is CHRISTIANITY, and what is meant by following Christ ? The bible teaches us what it is and how to follow Jesus. It shows that Jesus set us rules to follow, he taught us how to pray with the Lord's prayer, how to remember him with the breaking of bread, and how we can be saved with baptism. Jesus also said  "and upon this rock I will build my church" Matthew 16:18. The church pulls together all the things that Jesus taught, we cannot follow Jesus without the help of the church, Jesus knew this which is why he built it.

    If we do not follow these rules then we are not obeying Jesus and we are fooling ourselves when we say that we believe and follow him. However I didn't start this discussion to preach what I believe, I started this discussion to prove to my son that the teachings of his new church do not follow Anglican doctrine. Whether the Anglican faith is correct or not does not fall into the argument. And when this church tells him that they are following Anglican doctrine they are misleading him, the whole discussion with him was triggered by this statement, had they not said that they are following the Anglican faith this conversation with my son would never have begun.

    You are correct to ask "What does Scripture say" the answer depends on your denomination, the Jehovah witness will say that they follow scripture but they come up with different answers to the same questions. It's up to individuals, within their church to eventually draw up their own conclusions whilst reading the bible, using material like the 39 articles and also following the early teachings of the church fathers.

    I will do my best to make my son believe in Christianity as I and my church believe, but obviously he is a free spirit and at some point because I love him I would accept his decision, because its not a question of which faith he follows, he could become a Muslim. But I will not accept his new church saying that they are within the Anglican faith, they are not.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1037 Pts   -   edited July 14
    @Silvano12
    However I didn't start this discussion to preach what I believe

    Yes, you did, and there is every bit of evidence to support the fact.

    They have drilled into him that all the beliefs that we have taught him are false.

    That is preaching and, in particular, preaching your distorted views and deriding the views or doctrines of others (the Anglican Church).

    .....his new Church has convinced him

    Preaching.

    The bible teaches us what it is and how to follow Jesus. 

    Preaching.

    If we do not follow these rules then we are not obeying Jesus 

    Preaching

    ....the teachings of his new church do not follow Anglican doctrine.

    Preaching again; just after having stated that you did not start the conversation to preach what you believe?!

     It's up to individuals, within their church to eventually draw up their own conclusions......... 

    Still preaching.

    I will do my best to make my son believe in Christianity as I and my church believe

    In other words, you will "drill" your son by "preaching" what "you" believe.

    But I will not accept his new church saying that they are within the Anglican faith, they are not.

    The preaching doesn't stop, does it?

    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • DeeDee 4169 Pts   -  
    @Silvano12

     he is a free spirit and at some point because I love him I would accept his decision, because its not a question of which faith he follows, he could become a Muslim.


    Wonder what you would say if he said he had seen “the light “ and was now an Atheist how would that pan out?
  • Silvano12Silvano12 2 Pts   -  

    I am not against my son if he decides to change religion, as I have said he could become a Muslim or anything, as long as he is happy.
    But I won't accept any church that does not practice the doctrines of the church of England calling itself Anglican and even more wrongly trying to convince him and others that their beliefs are based on the Anglican Church.The point is not if he is changing religion, the point is that he is being mislead. into beliving somthing that is not true.

  • DeeDee 4169 Pts   -  
    @Silvano12

    The point is not if he is changing religion, the point is that he is being mislead. into beliving somthing that is not true.

    But all denominations say that of each other , when I was a Catholic I would have said you believe in something that’s not true so your point is just your opinion based on the words of others , how is it in any way “true” 
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3946 Pts   -  
    @Silvano12

    But, see, "to obey Jesus" may be interpreted in many different ways. The whole reason there are so many different Christian denominations in the first place is because they differ in their views on what it means to obey Jesus and to follow the word of god. On a lower level, there are many different religions differing in their views on who to obey and the word of each god(s), if any, to follow. And on an even lower level, there are many ideologies, among other things, differing in their views on whether religion is even a valid epistemological approach at all.

    There are many Christian churches, and all of them have their own interpretations of the Bible. How do you tell which of these are more authentic and which are not? Well, there might not be an objective way to do so, and different people may come up with different questions. Which is why it is generally a bad idea to make your decision based on what the majority, or a submajority, says. What if all Catholics are wrong and some Baptists are right? What if all Baptists are wrong and some Catholics are right? What if both Baptists and Catholics, and all other major denominations, are wrong, and only one old guy living in a shack in rural Kansas got it right?

    Ultimately, your son will have to examine the existing literature and views for himself and make a judgment. It sounds like you are trying to persuade him that a very particular subdenomination is right, but you are not very sure of that yourself, otherwise you would not be asking for advice here. "I do not know why X is right, but I want to convince my son that X is right. How do I do that?" I do not think it is a good approach.
    A better approach would be to have an open discussion with his son and to encourage him to develop his own opinion.
  • Silvano12Silvano12 2 Pts   -  
    " but you are not very sure of that yourself, otherwise you would not be asking for advice here"

    Completely disagree with you mate, I am very sure of myself on this matter, I  asked initially on this forum because I wanted to hear opinions from other Anglicans on what they believed about the doctrine of his new Church, not because I was unsure myself, neither have I tried to change what my sons destiny is, nor did I want to preach my beliefs. My comments have been completely changed, I wanted an opinion from someone apart from my vicar to show to my son. However all I got was offensive replies, even if I were wrong in my beliefs I did not deserve any of your disgraceful comments.

    However there are no Anglicans here, just a bunch of lost souls.I wish you all the best of luck, you will need it.

  • SwolliwSwolliw 1037 Pts   -  
    @Silvano12
    I am not against my son if he decides to change religion........But I won't accept........

    Yes, you are against your son. 

    I'm afraid that you will have to give people with any more than half a brain a bit more credit as being not so naive to believe such self-centered bullying, grand-standing, and utter nonsense.

  • DeeDee 4169 Pts   -   edited July 15
    @Silvano12

    Completely disagree with you mate, I am very sure of myself on this matter,

    Why are you on here asking for advice then? You also said but refuse to answer ... the point is that he is being mislead. into beliving somthing that is not true.

    How do you prove he is wrong and you are right? Bet you refuse to answer again 



    I  asked initially on this forum because I wanted to hear opinions from other Anglicans on what they believed about the doctrine of his new Church,

    And if they disagree with you will you revise your opinion?

    not because I was unsure myself, neither have I tried to change what my sons destiny is, nor did I want to preach my beliefs.

    You are unsure otherwise you wouldn’t be on here asking what the majority think 


    My comments have been completely changed, I wanted an opinion from someone apart from my vicar to show to my son. 

    They haven’t so resorting to lying doesn’t help your cause , what comments have been changed exactly?

    However all I got was offensive replies,

    Offense is taken not given , how were you offended?

    even if I were wrong in my beliefs I did not deserve any of your disgraceful comments.

    What disgraceful comments ? I bet you cannot cite them?

    However there are no Anglicans here, just a bunch of lost souls.I wish you all the best of luck, you will need it.

    Thats your opinion and demonstrates clearly what a fine example of a “Christian “ you are as you fly into a rage at your son and others for having a different opinion , all you care about is bullying  him into accepting your views and you couldn’t care less about his as you cannot even prove him wrong can you? 

    You’re a cowardly bullying tyrant who should attempt to let people be themselves and find their own way
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 295 Pts   -   edited July 15
    Silvano12 said:

    Hello, 
    What is the majority view within the Anglican Church on baptism? My son has joined a new Church.They have drilled into him that all the beliefs that we have taught him are false.
    At the moment we are discussing the holy sacrament of baptism with him, his new Church has convinced him that baptism is just symbolic, and that it has no real importance by giving him many examples, one of which is that in his baptism he did not receive the Holy Spirit when he was baptised. 
    I contacted his new church, and they defended their position and what they preach by saying that they are part of the Church of England, and what they preach is the majority view on baptism within the Anglican Church. 
    I know that within the Anglican Church there are some Churches that have this belief. Which is why I'd like to know what is the majority view on this topic, do the majority of Anglicans  believe that we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptised or is that belief in the minority ? 

    I go by the Bible and not by any denomination.  I will tell you what the Bible says.

    John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus.  He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 1:76-80).

     

    We are still to confess that we are sinners, and to repent, to prepare the way for Jesus Christ to live in our heart.

     This is what the apostle Paul says.  It is exactly what John the baptizer said.

    Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

     

    Acts 26:20  First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

     

    The Bible tells us before people were baptized-they repented. 

     

    Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

     

    Mark 1:5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him.  Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

     

    Acts 19:18 Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done.

     

    Christians are to be water baptized, even after having received the Holy Spirit.

     

    Acts 10:47 Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water?  They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

     

    Baptism represents how a believer equates his life with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection.  Our old person is to die to the sins of the world and be buried with Jesus through baptism into death.  We are buried with the water, and raised out of the water, raised to live a new life through Jesus.

     

    Picture how baptism looks…the believer comes to make the pledge to God, to die to the sins of the world; so now standing in the water the  believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.

     

    Romans explain this perfectly.

     

    Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

     

    Water baptism is when the person makes a promise of a good conscience to God in a ceremonial type of way. The person has already made the conscientious acknowledgement to God to stop sinning, but now follows through with obeying God by getting water baptized, by doing the ceremonial act of the promise.  Water baptism is a symbol of what has already happened in one’s heart. See 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.  It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 295 Pts   -   edited July 15
    Silvano12 said:

    Hello, 
    What is the majority view within the Anglican Church on baptism? My son has joined a new Church.They have drilled into him that all the beliefs that we have taught him are false.
    At the moment we are discussing the holy sacrament of baptism with him, his new Church has convinced him that baptism is just symbolic, and that it has no real importance by giving him many examples, one of which is that in his baptism he did not receive the Holy Spirit when he was baptised. 
    I contacted his new church, and they defended their position and what they preach by saying that they are part of the Church of England, and what they preach is the majority view on baptism within the Anglican Church. 
    I know that within the Anglican Church there are some Churches that have this belief. Which is why I'd like to know what is the majority view on this topic, do the majority of Anglicans  believe that we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptised or is that belief in the minority ? 






    This was his message: "After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie.  I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."  Mark 1:7-8

     

    John the baptizer tells us Jesus will do the baptizing.  Jesus will baptize us with the Holy Spirit.

     

    Acts 1:4-5 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.  For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

     

    Some people had a baptism, but their baptism was only with John's baptism.  Remember, John's baptism was not with the Holy Spirit.  John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.  Some never even heard about the Holy Spirit.

     They have to believe.

    Acts 19:1-5 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus.  There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”  They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."  So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"  "John's baptism," they replied.  Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance.  He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."  On hearing this they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

     

     They have to repent of their sins.

    Acts 2:38  Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.  And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

     

    From Acts 2:38, we see that we are to repent and be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins.  And we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

     

    Christians are to be water baptized, even after having received the Holy Spirit.

     

    Acts 10:47 Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water?  They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

     

    There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit.  Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

     

    In Acts 10:44; Acts 11:14; and, Acts 19:2, we see that the Holy Spirit came on some after hearing the message, to those who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ...

     

    You have to hear the message.

     

    Acts 10:43-44 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."  While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.

     

    Acts 11:14-15 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.'  "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.

     

    In the next scriptures (Acts 15:7-8) we learn that God showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them.

     

    Acts 15:7-8 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them:  "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.  God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

     

    Therefore, from the scriptures,Jesus does the baptizing (Mark 1:8).  People can receive the Holy Spirit after they hear and believe the message (Acts 10:44; Acts 11:14; and, Acts 19:2).  We can receive the Holy Spirit after we repent and are baptized (Acts 2:38).  There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:5).  We receive the Holy Spirit when God shows that he accepts us (Acts 15:8).

     

    The Holy Spirit can come on someone after an apostle placed his hands on him or her, see Acts 8:17 and Acts19:6.

     

    Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.  15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.  17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."

     

    Jesus laid His hands on many of those he healed; however, he could heal without laying his hands on people.  Scripture tells of when Jesus was nowhere near the area of the servant of the centurion when he healed him. See Matthew 8:8.

     

    All those at Pentecost were baptized with the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands (Acts 2:4), and Cornelius and his whole household were saved that way too, without the laying on of hands, and even before water baptism (Acts 10:44, 47; Acts 11:15)

    Acts 11:15-16 "Just as I was starting to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Then I remembered what the Lord had said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'" 

     

    In the above scripture (Acts 8:15), we learn they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.  In  Luke 11:13 we see that the Father gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask.  Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

     

    Acts 5:30-32 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead---whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.  God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.  We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

     

    "...the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

     

    John 14:15-31 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.  and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--- the Spirit of truth.  The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him.  but you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.  I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.  Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.  Because I live, you also will live.  On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.  Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.  He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."  Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"  Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching.  My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.  He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.  These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.  "All this I have spoken while still with you.  But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.  Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.  I do not give to you as the world gives.  Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.  "You heard me say, "I am going away and I am coming back to you.'  If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.  I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.  I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming.  He has no hold on me, but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.  "Come now; let us leave.

     

    Read again, what Jesus said.  John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching.  My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

     

    Again, from the scriptures, Jesus does the baptizing; Jesus immerses us with the Holy Spirit (Mark 1:8).  People can receive the Holy Spirit after they hear and believe the message (Acts 10:44; Acts 11:14; and, Acts 19:2), even without the laying on of hands, and before water baptism (Acts 10:47; Acts 11:15-16).  We can receive the Holy Spirit after we repent and are baptized (Acts 2:38).  There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:5).  We receive the Holy Spirit when God accepts us (Acts 15:8); He accepts those who obey Him, they are the ones who receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:32).   The Holy Spirit can come on someone after an apostle placed his hands on him or her, Acts 8:14; and, Acts 19:6.  We learn they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:15), and that the Father gives the Holy Spirit to His children who ask (Luke 11:13).  If we love Jesus and obey his teaching, the Father and Jesus will love us and they will come to make their home with us (John 14:23).

    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • JeanJean 62 Pts   -  
    Silvano12 said:

    Hello, 
    What is the majority view within the Anglican Church on baptism? My son has joined a new Church.They have drilled into him that all the beliefs that we have taught him are false.
    At the moment we are discussing the holy sacrament of baptism with him, his new Church has convinced him that baptism is just symbolic, and that it has no real importance by giving him many examples, one of which is that in his baptism he did not receive the Holy Spirit when he was baptised. 
    I contacted his new church, and they defended their position and what they preach by saying that they are part of the Church of England, and what they preach is the majority view on baptism within the Anglican Church. 
    I know that within the Anglican Church there are some Churches that have this belief. Which is why I'd like to know what is the majority view on this topic, do the majority of Anglicans  believe that we receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptised or is that belief in the minority ? 






    Silvano12, I am not an Anglican and I feel very ashamed by the replies you received from all those who responded to your opening post. I wish we could apologize for others.
    It is clear to me that you feel frustrated because you believe your son is being told that your Anglican tradition is in error and you are concerned that he is being led astray. I can understand how awful this must be for you.
    I do have a question for you if you care to answer; You say that your son has joined a new Church but how can this be if they are Anglicans? Surely the Anglican Church is one church made up of different parishes. Did you mean that your son has started attending a different parish from the one he grew up in? I would like to know what age your son is and if he has moved away from home putting him in a new parish? Different parishes will belong to traditions reflected in the Anglican Church varying from Evangelical to Anglo-Catholic. I do not have all the information regarding your problem.
    Secondly, all the parishes in your area will belong to a diocese and the bishop of your diocese is the authority for interpreting the meaning of the sacrament of Baptism which all Anglicans must believe. As I understand it, Anglicans have two sacraments, namely Baptism and the Eucharist. There cannot be different teachings about these sacraments. A letter to your bishop will get you a reply clarifying whether your son's new congregation is following proper doctrine. The bishop should know this.
    Finally, you are indeed correct that Anglican Baptism involves the reception of the Holy Spirit:
    DEARLY beloved, forasmuch as our Saviour Christ saith, None can enter into the Kingdom of God, except he be regenerate and born anew of Water and of the Holy Ghost; I beseech you to call upon God the Father, through our Lord Jesus Christ, that of his bounteous mercy he will grant to this Child (or Person) that which by nature he cannot have; that he may be baptized with Water and the Holy Ghost, and received into Christ’s holy Church, and be made a living member of the same. (Book of Common Prayer)
    You have my best wishes.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1037 Pts   -   edited July 21
    @Jean
    I am not an Anglican
    Oh really? I hadn't noticed.
    I wish we could apologize for others.

    Apologise for what? Exposing the bullying nature of someone else who insists that his beliefs supersede all others? He said, "They have drilled into him that all the beliefs that we have taught him are false."

    You are no better in your domineering, ignorant, arrogant behaviour by having the gall to suggest that you could apologise for what others say. So, what you think, rules, does it?

  • JoeKerrJoeKerr 120 Pts   -  
    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter which church or denomination your son decides on. It's all the same sh*t, just a different bucket! @Silvano12
  • JoeKerrJoeKerr 120 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: It doesn't matter

    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter which church or denomination your son decides on. It's all the same sh*t, just a different bucket! @Silvano12
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