I believe Christianity employs indoctrination as a method to inculcate unquestioning devotion. I feel there is strong evidence that indoctrination is a system of abuse. This practice causes psychological and emotional damage to the victim. The abuse manifests in different forms such as identity loss, guilt syndrome, stygiophobia, death anxiety, sexual repression, compulsivity, and self blame. Victims actively and unknowingly participate in their own abuse. These abuses have deleterious long term impacts for the victim and can be correlated to higher levels of depression, anxiety, self deception, denial, somatic concerns, and dissociative disorders.
Indoctrination: to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle.
Some mechanisms for indoctrination using in-group dynamics include pressure, coercion, manipulation, and control. Analytical approaches toward indoctrination implicitly suggest an inherent immoral process. So why is there a need for indoctrination? The goal is personal, emotional, and psychological dependence on the in-group for the furtherance of the in-groups objectives. The indoctrination process effectively detaches the victim from active critical thinking, reduces self identity, and alters the individuals perception of out-group values in favor of in-group prejudices and biases. Once total submission to the group and the imposition of absolute authority is achieved the inculcation of unquestioning belief is completed. The victims ability for reality based value judgements outside of the in-groups partisanship is greatly reduced. At this point doctrine becomes a self contained regime within the victim for the purpose of the victims continued self deception and for perpetuating the in-groups agenda.
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Yep, that's how it works.
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In the future mankind will look to the past and wonder how we approved and encouraged parents to mentally abuse and terrify children with these ridiculous tall tales.
The whole process of indoctrination is reliant on ensnaring it's victims as young as possible , if children were not introduced to religious thinking till they were of an age where they could reason I believe they would reject religions for the obvious irrational rubbish and nonsense they are, that's why indoctrination is so successful it needs to get them young to form unquestioning sheeple to work.
Jesus correctly labelled his followers, " the flock " " sheep" a very apt label indeed
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I have pointed this out numerous times - there are at least 10 miracle level problems (meaning that the odds of it happening are infinitesimally small - less than 1 in 10 to the 50th power). with chemical evolution. Yet, atheists will ignore the problems and just say it is a reality, when the evidence strongly suggests it is unlikely to have occurred naturally. From Jules favorite AI:
It just seems more likely that if you need 10 miracles then you need a God, but atheists indoctrination will not consider that option, even though it is much more logical and plausible. From UNC:
Biologists currently estimate that the smallest life form as we know it would have needed about 256 genes. (See Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Volume 93, Number 19, pp. 10268-10273 at http://journals.at-home.com/get_doc/1854083/8551). A gene is typically 1000 or more base pairs long, and there is some space in between, so 256 genes would amount to about 300,000 bases of DNA. The deoxyribose in the DNA ``backbone'' determines the direction in which it will spiral. Since organic molecules can be generated in both forms, the chance of obtaining all one form or another in 300,000 bases is one in two to the 300,000 power. This is about one in 10 to the 90,000 power. It seems to be necessary for life that all of these bases spiral in the same direction. Now, if we imagine many, many DNA molecules being formed in the early history of the earth, we might have say 10 100 molecules altogether (which is really much too high). But even this would make the probability of getting one DNA molecule right about one in 10 to the 89,900 power, still essentially zero. And we are not even considering what proteins the DNA generates, or how the rest of the cell structure would get put together! So the real probability would be fantastically small.
Now not everybody is tenured math professor material, so let me make a comparison. There are approximately 1 in 10^87 atoms in the universe. The number 1 in 10^88 power would be 10 times bigger. Yet the odds of a relatively short functional randomly forming DNA strand happening naturally are 1 in 10^90000 power. Even an atheist should recognize that is a very improbable number to think would have happened accidently - yet that is just one miracle level problem with chemical evolution. Atheists indoctrination brush such challenges off and ignore them.
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This is laughable as so many atheists believe that the universe came from nothing and never question how that could be true.
Just have to lie don't you? Can't post without a strawman cause the truth of the op causes doubt and that means hell for you? For the millionth time atheism doesn't make positive blind faith assertions, that is theism's way of operating. Scientist HAVE questioned how something can come from nothing and that's how they discovered the emptiness of space where nothing is visible doesn't mean "nothing" is there. As they realized they can't detect anything itself directly but they can detect the effects of what they commonly refer to as 'dark matter'. This observance is called "gravitational lensing".
These lensed images also act as probes of the matter distribution in the galaxy cluster. The results indicate that most of the matter in a galaxy cluster is not in the visible galaxies or hot gas around them and does not emit light, and is thus called dark matter. The distribution of lensed images reflects the distribution of all matter, both visible and dark. Hubble’s images of gravitational lensing have been used to create maps of dark matter in galaxy clusters. https://hubblesite.org/contents/articles/gravitational-lensing
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is laughable as so many atheists believe that the universe came from nothing and never question how that could be true.
Really? Why don't you address them then?
One only has to look over this very site and see that time and time again, as atheists make rash claims about the Bible and their false claims are addressed by people of faith,
You mean like the 6 questions I've repeatedly asked you about your beliefs that you refuse to address?
that atheists are guilty of indoctrination and fail to investigate either their own beliefs or the beliefs of others.
What belief of mine have I not addressed ? And I've investigated the beliefs of others and questioned them but like you they run.
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The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14
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@just_sayin
Belief by definition is hypothetical.
So anyone can propose anything and believe it.
No actual proof necessary.
Just compile an accompanying book of tales.
And the gullible will love it.
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According to big bang cosmology, there was no space for dark matter to fit in. How much dark matter can you fit in zero space, @FactFinder? You are appealing to dark matter (why not dark energy?) which not a single experiment has ever observed a single dark matter particle. You are correct most scientists believe in dark matter, but you haven't explained how dark matter solves the issue of a universe from nothing. Yet you believe it in faith cough*** indoctrination ***cough.
Your response is yet to an appeal I did not make. I do not know how the universe started and have told you that so WHY LIE? You can't follow a conversation cause you're indoctrinated seeking others to be brainwashed as you have been. That is your agenda, not truths. And you can't even admit you're here to proselytize. You haven't explained how chanting "god did it" solves the issue of the universe comes from nothing either; since you're obviously the only one that believes the universe came from nothing as you're the only one who brings it up, however deceitful your motivations are. Remember your elf god hates those like you...
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'
MEMBERSHIP: PERTAINING TO THE RUNAWAY RICKEYHOLTSCLAW!
Well, as explicitly seen since the poor RickeyHoltsclaw came back from his sabbatical of taking a short time off to try and regroup from being easily Bible Slapped Silly by Atheists that have forgotten more about the Bible than he will ever learn from it, the Christian Cultist Rickey cannot address my posts directed to him anymore!!!
I knew this day would eventually come in his behalf because it was to easy for me to make him this Religion Forum's number one BIBLE FOOL, as other Atheists as well did with ease! LOL!
Here is a video of "RickeyHoltsclaw" since he cannot
address my posts anymore, but to only run away from them and hide
and he wants to call himself a Christian?! NOT!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7ni7zL8qU
RUN RICKEY, RUN AWAY FROM ME BEING AN ATHEIST
THAT EASILY OWNS YOU AND YOUR CULTIST FAITH
OF CHRISTIANITY, PRAISE ZEUS!
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RickeyHoltsclaw, this Religion Forum's number one BIBLE FOOL!
1. Rickey, you biblically “LIE*D” when you said you only need FAITH for Salvation, but I biblically corrected you again in where you need WORKS as well for Salvation in my post below that made you the Bible Dunce again!:
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/192028/#Comment_192028
2. Rickey, you “LIE*D” when you said that Jesus is the Messiah because I have easily shown you that Jesus WAS NOT THE MESSIAH, as explicitly shown in the post below!:
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/193303/#Comment_193303
3. Rickey, you “LIE*D” when you said life begins at conception, where I had to correct you again where Jesus showed that life begins with the “first breath,”where in essence, you called Jesus a LIA*R!!!
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/192309/#Comment_192309
Therefore RickeyHoltsclaw, in deducing your situation to the irreducible primary, YOU ARE AN HABITUAL LI*ER are as follows:,
THEREFORE, YOU ARE THE ONE GOING TO HELL UPON YOUR DEMISE AS JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS STATE HEREWITH!:
“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, AND ALL LIARS their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)
Rickey, I would suggest that you start wearing “asbestos suits” in case Jesus takes you earlier than you expect, do you understand this simple proposition? You have too!!! LOL!
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Thank you for proving Rickey and me right - atheists throw out their talking points, but are unwilling to answer any questions asked of them. You were asked over 3 months ago to answer just 2 questions:
1) How does a universe pop into existence from zero space?
2) How does life pop into existence from non-life?
You ran from these questions. You are content to bomb debate after debate with your talking points and expect everyone to stop debating the topic to answer you, but this debate is about how indoctrination won't allow people to question their beliefs. A major argument made by me is that atheists run from questions. So thank you for proving Rickey and me right.
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JUST_LYING; ADDRESSING YOUR WIMPY IRRATIONAL POST SHOWN IN THE LINK HEREWITH: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/193494/#Comment_193494
Since you didn’t show the chronological order of time periods in you wanting me to address your two questions, whereas YOU didn’t address my questions starting on MAY 9, TO JULY 30, 2024 as explicitly shown below that predated your questions by months!
Therefore, to save your embarrassment AGAIN upon this topic, address MY QUESTIONS FIRST below before I will address your two questions! See how Logic 101 works, whoops, I'm sorry, since you are a pseudo-christian runaway from the Bible, you could never comprehend Logic 101! Sorry.
BEGIN:
1. MAY 9, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/180361/#Comment_180361
2. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183759/#Comment_183759
3. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183769/#Comment_183769
4. JUNE 28, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/184033/#Comment_184033
5. JULY 1, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/184265/#Comment_184265
6. JUNE 10, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/182423/#Comment_182423
7. JUNE 10, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/182424/#Comment_182424
8. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183760/#Comment_183760
9. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183761/#Comment_183761
10. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183762/#Comment_183762
11.JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183763/#Comment_183763
12. JUNE 29, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/184034/#Comment_184034
13. JUNE 24, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183608/#Comment_183608
14. AUGUST 3, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/187500/#Comment_187500
15. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183760/#Comment_183760
16. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183761/#Comment_183761
17. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183762/#Comment_183762
18. JUNE 26, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/183763/#Comment_183763
19. JULY 30, 2024: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/187266/#Comment_187266
Therefore, at your embarrassing expense AGAIN, of which you are used too as the links above adamantly show, you can “Whistle Dixie until the cows come home” before I will address your post in the following link below dated October 21, 2024 2024, until you address EVERY ONE of my 19 posts FIRST as shown above that you are “SHEEPISHLY AND COWARDLY” running away from since May 9, 2024!!!!!! LOL!!!
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/193494/#Comment_193494
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RICKEYHOLTSCLAW has to run away from my direct post to him shown in the link below where it shows that Rickey will be Hell Bound upon his earthly demise! Praise Jesus' revenge upon Rickey as a blatant LIA*R!
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/193494/#Comment_193494
JUST_LYING is also running away from a post of mine, where I guess he can't find his "Big Boy Pants" to address it in the link below:
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/193485/#Comment_193485
The coined name of Rickey and Just_LYING being "The Dynamic Duo of Bible Stoopidity" surely rings true! LOL!
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When will you answer the questions you were asked? Why do you continue to run away?
1) How did a universe pop into existence from zero space?
2) How did life pop into existence from non-life?
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1) How did a universe pop into existence from zero space?
When did you establish it did?
2) How did life pop into existence from non-life?
When did you establish it did? Unprovable fairytale elf god myths with magical powers to circumvent reality don't count. No arbitrary claims about the unknow. Go...
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2) Are you saying that when the universe popped into existence, life already existed in the universe that didn't exist until it popped into existence? Sorry Deacon, my brain works by logic, not whatever yours is working on.
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1) Why Deacon, just today you told me you thought the universe was just shy of 14 billion years old - that's due to big bang cosmology which claims the universe came from near zero space (10 to -35 plank space). Did you not? Science established that fact for you.
You know I never said I was a deacon, and I told you that. Is it Christian doctrine to ignore truth? No, I didn't tell you that. You said, "I am fine with saying that the universe is roughly 14 billion years old" and I said "me too." And I am fine saying that; but that doesn't in anyway imply I know or have enough knowledge or authority to claim the universe came from nothing, big bang theory or not. All aspects are still under investigation. In your question to @21CenturyIconoclast you do assume the universe came from nothing in your phrasing of the question, that's on you to prove and not me or him.
2) Are you saying that when the universe popped into existence, life already existed in the universe that didn't exist until it popped into existence? Sorry Deacon, my brain works by logic, not whatever yours is working on.
No, I'm not saying the universe "popped" into existence. You're the only one who has said that. And you're the only one setting up strawmen and then debating yourself.
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No debate is possible with Just Lying as that's exactly his strategy every time as in claim his opponent said something they never said and attack that , pretty sad really but expected as goddists have not one decent argument between them.
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You know I never said I was a deacon,
Deacon, you never said you weren't. Your free will Baptist church may have had another name for them like elders or board members. If you weren't something like a Deacon/Elder/Board member then just say that.
In your question to @21CenturyIconoclast you do assume the universe came from nothing in your phrasing of the question, that's on you to prove and not me or him.
That is indeed what Big Bang Cosmology argues. The Big Bang was not an explosion in pre-existing space, but rather an expansion of space itself. As one source states: "Rather, physicists believe the Big Bang created and stretched space itself, expanding the universe." There was no space pre-Big Bang.
Now, some cosmologists are more nuanced, and will argue that in order to avoid the singularity, that they can only claim that the universe goes back to the size of plank length - that's because the math goes wonky below that size. However, with the big bang, matter and space are created.
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Deacon, you never said you weren't.
You never said you weren't gay. So what's your point?
And I did correct you. The last time I corrected you was right before you typed this lie. Church board member, usher, minister of outreach, those things I said I was, never a deacon. The big bang theory isn't settled in the absolute sense by any means but is the prominent model so far. But a lot of unanswered questions remain which you don't have. Like what was before the bang and what caused it. And with so much observed predictability that is in the universe supporting the big bang, what explains the unpredictability when seemingly the laws of physics break down? These are things being researched about the big bang. And of course there are other models which are being hypothesized as well. "God did it with special powers to subvert reality that need no explaining" is no answer or explanation. It is faith, not logic.
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@just_sayin @Factfinder
Actually, in the absence of an audio reception device there would have been no bangs...Only waves.
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