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Was It A Mistake For America To Leave Afghanistan?

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Things don't seem to be going well.



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  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold
    Things don't seem to be going well

    Listen, what the Americans never seemed to realise is that war is normal in Afghanistan. It's the default way of life. The only time they ever stop fighting each other is when there's an invading army to join forces against.

    Pulling out was absolutely the right thing to do because the Americans never should have been there in the first place. Not only was the invasion a bad strategic idea, but it was grounded in lies just like the Iraq War. Bush issued a disingenuous ultimatum to the Taliban solely for the purpose of setting up a pretext for war with the international community. He demanded they hand bin Laden over or he'd invade. The problem is that the Taliban and bin Laden both called his bluff and bin Laden offered to surrender himself to house arrest in Pakistan, where he would face trial for allegedly masterminding the 9/11 attacks. This offer was ignored by Bush and he invaded anyway.

    Something not very well known in the US is that the Taliban came to power with the help of American intelligence, since they were deemed the best of an extremely bad bunch. The original idea was to woo the Taliban into letting American private contractors build an oil pipeline through Afghanistan so they could bypass the Persian Gulf, and to this effect the Mullahs were treated to an all-expenses trip to the States by the major oil companies, where they were taken to baseball games and wined and dined. Once the Mullahs returned to Afghanistan, they went cold on the idea and began demanding more money from the Americans, and it was only at this point that relations soured between the two countries.

    DeeJohn_C_87
  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  
    Naaaah, pulling out of Afghanistan at that time was not the right move.      There is nothing that professional soldiers like better than a "nice" little war somewhere, where they can test out their weapons and training on a real bunch of total drop kicks who could do with some killing.    For 20 years everybody was in on the fun.    Even the Germans had a chance to polish up their panzers and get their old MG 42's out of storage and go and kill some Muslims, which they are not allowed to do in their own country.      Even wimpy Canada sent soldiers.   Even Sweden got in on the act and sent troops, which was the first decent fight they have been in for 200 years.

    For 20 years, Afghanistan was the greatest training ground in the world where the good guys of the world trained officers, NCO's, soldiers, and pilots.      It wasn't as expensive as you might think.    Soldiers still have to be paid regardless of whether they fight the enemies of civilisation, or just sit around playing tidddlywinks.     New weapons were invented, the very same ones like suicide drones which are making Russian soldiers in Ukraine sheet blue bricks.  If it wasn't for the Muslim habit of having 18 kids in every family, the Taliban would have been shot right out of existence.

    But now we have gone, and the Talibs have got a problem.    For 20 years their young people have been exposed to western concepts and western thinking.    Afghan women could see the European soldier girls driving trucks and interacting with their male comrades as equals.     So for the Talibs, it is just like the problem those stu-pid old ayatollah's have got in Iran today.    "How they gonna keep 'em, down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?"
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -  
    @Bogan
    Naaaah, pulling out of Afghanistan at that time was not the right move.      There is nothing that professional soldiers like better than a "nice" little war somewhere, where they can test out their weapons and training on a real bunch of total drop kicks who could do with some killing.    For 20 years everybody was in on the fun.    Even the Germans had a chance to polish up their panzers and get their old MG 42's out of storage and go and kill some Muslims, which they are not allowed to do in their own country.

    I wonder if you're purposefully trying to annoy people or if you really are this much of a tool.

  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature ;    I wonder if you're purposefully trying to annoy people or if you really are this much of a tool.

    I am shocked, Nommie, and deeply hurt.
  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  

    Look, Nommie, you are completely wrong about going to war against Muslims. 

    Now take Saddam, he really was a nice bloke. A bit misunderstood, but nice.    Okay, so he liked eating hommos while he was porking his blond mistress and watching snuff movies at the same time. But everyone has a few little vices, don't they? But you have to see that Saddam had a lot of plusses. The best thing about Saddam, was that he loved killing Muslims. Well, he liked killing anybody, but he usually killed Muslims and that was just fine with me.

    To date, it has been estimated that Saddam had killed at least 700,000 of his own soldiers by picking fights with his neighbours. That is 700,000 less Muslims who will try to invade western countries by claiming refugee status, and 700,000 less on our dole queues. There are also big savings on building public housing, hospitals, police forces, and prisons.

    How could I say such terrible things about Muslims?   Easy, I occasionally work with one. He is a "defector" from the Iraqi Army and he is an as-shole. He is a casual electrician who works through an agency, and can only get a job if an employer is really desperate.    He is usually on the dole, lives in a Housing Commission home at Rooty Hill, and has been arrested so many times for various offences, that the Rooty Hill police are thinking of putting a revolving door on his cell.

    And guess what? He loved Saddam. Ask him if the Iraqi people wanted the Americans to liberate them from Saddam, and he will start jumping up and down and frothing at the mouth in anger. "The Americans only wanted our Iraqi oil!", he screams.

    Look, if the Iraqi's liked Saddam so much, they should not have hanged him. As far as I am concerned, the whole of Iraq was not worth the death of a single Aussie, British, or American soldier.

    Now, as well as killing off Iraqi's, Saddam was really good at killing off Iranians. You guys remember the Iranians don't you? They were the ones who were so backward and barbaric that they invaded the American embassy in Tehran, and had a little fun putting embassy staff through mock executions.   It has been estimated that good old Saddam has managed to kill off at least a million of these ratbags, which is just fine with me.

    Add to that, an unknown number of "Kurds" and Kuwaiti's, and you have to admit that good old Saddam had been doing a really great job of genetically eradicating Muslims from the human genome.

    Now, I know that some of you are concerned that the Muslims will eventually get hold of some nukes. You are also worried that their engineers will figure out how to put one of the damn things on an improved SCUD and threaten Berlin, Paris, or Israel. But that has got a lot of plusses too. It is about time that somebody put the frighteners back on those limp wristed Europeans. They are so concerned with being sophisticated, cosmopolitan, tolerant, and enlightened, that they can not see an enemy who is staring them right in the face.

    Yup, the Euros have been less than enthusiastic supporters of the War against Terrorism, and it will take something spectacular to wake them up. With a bit of luck, the Muzzies might even nuke Paris? Let's face it, nobody would miss it.  And it would vapourise a lot of Muslims.    That should get the Frogs jumping up and down in Gallic fury. It might even stop them from sucking up to the Muslim world and dumping on the English speaking world all the time. But you never know with the Frogs, it takes a lot to get them away from their Gauloises and vin ordinaire, long enough to do anything  except whine about la Rossbifs (the English)

    A mushroom cloud floating over the Rhine might also prod the Deutchies into polishing up their panzers and getting in on the fight. Like the rest of the Europeans, the Deutchies have been getting a little too fat, self satisfied, and mellow of late. It looks like Der Fuhrer managed to kill off the best of them. But having a bunch of Arab untermenschen waving nuclear tipped SCUDS at Berlin should liven them up a bit, and hopefully even get Krupp manufacturing a few good old MG 42's again. It's about time the German boys stopped sucking beer and chasing fraulines and got their heels clicking. And there is nothing like a good war to get the German economy humming again, at least they can be on the winning side for once in a long time.

    Some of you might also be concerned that Assad could give some nerve gas or a nuke to the Taliban and their merry men? But The Talibs and Al Qaida are probably going to get their hands on the damned things eventually anyway, so why worry?  When they finally succeed in doing another spectacular terrorist incident in the west, using Muslim immigrants as functionaries and cover, maybe the Euros and Nommie will grow a brain and remember who's side they are supposed to be on?


    The best thing about having someone like Nommie opposing your viewpoints, is that everyone knows that part of his brain is disconnected from reality.


    Now, the Muslims are probably du-mb enough to threaten Israel with nukes and poison gas, but if they do that, then hopefully, the Israeli's will solve everything for us. They will let fly with their Jericho MRBM's with the fuses set for 1000 metres AGL, and it will be goodbye Baghdad, goodbye Mecca, goodbye Tripoli, goodbye Tehran, goodbye Damascus, goodbye Cairo, and goodbye Amman.   And good riddance. 
    Now, that would solve a lot of problems.

    You see, the problem is not Iraq or The Taliban or al Qiada. The problem is Islam. The west has not declared a crusade against Islam, but although Nommie can not figure it out, Islam has most definitely called a Jihad on us. The same Saudi princes and businessmen who are financing Al Queda, are the very same characters financing the building of mosques in every western country.

    Thirty years ago, the world was divided by Communism and Capitalism. The western world progressed while the Socialist world was in a time warp. Just like with the Muslim world today, every Communist country was an economic basket case. While the Russians sent probes to Venus and threatened us with massive armed forces, the Russian people stood in long bread queues. The Soviet Union was the leading Communist country in the world at the time, but it all boiled down to Liberia with rockets.    The Commos tried to hide the prosperity of the west from their own people, and built an Iron Curtain to stop the flow of people and ideas. But eventually the whole rotten edifice collapsed.

    This is how we should fight the war against Islam.   Just keep them at bay until they finally admit they are wrong and they reform their medieval religion to one acceptable to modern civilised people.
    For today Islam is the new enemy with a different ideology that is even more dangerous than Communism. But because it is couched in religious terms, people like Nommy, who can only think in terms of moral absolutes, go into bat for their enemies on the grounds of religious tolerance. The du-mbest thing that Hitler and Stalin did, was to not make Nazism or Communism a religion. If they had, people like Nommie would be grandstanding with a chorus of singing angels, displaying to everyone their religious tolerance, by saying nazis and commos are wonderful religious people who should migrate to the western world.

    Get it through your heads, Nommie, that just because Islam is a religion, it is still a hostile ideology who's clearly stated tenets are malevolent to the values of our modern, secular world. Just as Communism wanted to build a communist world, Islam wants to build an Islamic one. The fact that it is a religion simply makes it much more dangerous and it's adherents much more fanatical.

    What did Osama say in his speech? All the west had to do to stop suicide attacks on our people and our property was to do two little things. Leave the Muslim world alone, and bend the knee to Allah. That's all. If Nommie thinks that Muslims did not support Osama bin Laden, well guess what? Half the male babies in the Muslim world are being named "Osama". Hey Nommie, have you been checking out the price of prayer mats lately?

    The west is now in a war with Islam whether Nommie likes it or not. Fortunately, it is a war that the west is already winning very easily. We are showing the Muslim world that our system is far superior to the Muslim one by our prosperity and our lifestyle. We also can cower our enemies with the superiority of our military might. We can allow the Muslim world to live in their self imposed economic and social exile, and when things get bad enough they, like the Communists before them, will have to make a choice. Go backwards into the future and embrace catastrophe, or do something about reforming their own bizarre religious and political system.

    But, although we are winning the war, we can still lose it through absolute stu-pidity. Allowing our enemies to migrate to our country is du-mb, du-mb, du-mb. We must be absolutely certain that the fundamental allegiances of people who migrate to the western world is towards our western culture and our western people, not to the Arab world, or to Allah and His Prophet.

    The most powerfull ICBM in the armoury of the west is the "Peacekeeper" ICBM with 13 MIRV warheads. But it is hardly an asset to democracy, if, through misplaced tolerance and a non discriminatory employment policy, we employ a couple of "American" soldiers named Mohammed and Osama, to sit in a silo with a Koran, a targeting program, and their fingers on the big red button.

  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -  
    @Bogan
    To date, it has been estimated that Saddam had killed at least 700,000 of his own soldiers by picking fights with his neighbours

    Bogan, there is little point talking to you about anything because you are simply unprepared to ever acknowledge anything which impacts what you want to believe. The United States sold Saddam the weapons he used against the Iranians, learned where the Iranian troops were stationed through satellite imagery, and then relayed that information to him. The complete absence of mention of the United States in your summary implies that either you are horrendously ignorant, thoroughly dishonest, or a disturbing combination of the two:-

    In 1988, during the waning days of Iraq's war with Iran, the United States learned through satellite imagery that Iran was about to gain a major strategic advantage by exploiting a hole in Iraqi defenses. U.S. intelligence officials conveyed the location of the Iranian troops to Iraq.

    The United States was fully aware Saddam was using chemical weapons and continued to support him in his war against Iran:-

    For several years before that, CIA documents show, U.S. officials were aware that Iraq had been using chemical weapons in its long war against neighboring Iran and likely would again.

    The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence. These attacks helped to tilt the war in Iraq's favor and bring Iran to the negotiating table, and they ensured that the Reagan administration's long-standing policy of securing an Iraqi victory would succeed.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/26/215733981/new-details-on-how-u-s-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran

    You claim Saddam killed 700,000 of his own soldiers, provide no source to support your claim, and again simply make no mention of the fact that a former UN official described the effect of US-backed economic sanctions against Iraq as "genocide".

    Nine years of United Nations economic sanctions against Iraq have created genocidal conditions and should be eliminated, Denis Halliday, a former UN official, told a Cornell audience last week.

    "We are now in there responsible for killing people, destroying their families, their children, allowing their older parents to die for lack of basic medicines," Halliday said during a lecture titled "Sanctions Against Iraq: Consequences and Alternatives," Sept. 24, in Goldwin Smith Hall's Hollis E. Cornell Auditorium. "We're in there allowing children to die who were not born yet when Saddam Hussein made the mistake of invading Kuwait."

    https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1999/09/former-un-official-says-sanctions-against-iraq-amount-genocide

    I honestly just don't even want to talk to you because you're a horrible racist Nazi slimeball who distorts reality like silly putty.

    Dee
  • DeeDee 4958 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature

    I honestly just don't even want to talk to you because you're a horrible racist Nazi slimeball who distorts reality like silly putty.


    You're a patient guy  Nom attempting to educate that vile bigot , he's a dim witted creature unworthy of your attempts to illuminate him 
    Nomenclature
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -   edited January 22
    @Dee

    Thanks for the compliment Dee, although I'm not sure I'm particularly patient. Frequently I find myself being rude to people who don't really deserve it, usually because I'm flabbergasted and frustrated at how ignorant they are. Bogan however, is someone who genuinely makes my flesh crawl.
  • DeeDee 4958 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature

    Thats a good point you make , I'm similar in that I cannot comprehend how some of these people actually function in the real world. Bogan is the most despicable creature I've come across in a long time , you'd wonder what made  him such a hate filled bigot 
  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  
    Why don't you two get married?
  • DeeDee 4958 Pts   -   edited January 22
    @Bogan

    Well I'm married , I'm not sure if Nom is ......is this your way of finding out if either one of us is available?
  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  
    I have better taste.
  • DeeDee 4958 Pts   -  
    @Bogan

    I have better taste.


    Hey buddy thanks for the photo of your latest squeeze .....are you sure you're not still punching above your weight ?



    Nomenclature
  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  

    US INVADES EUROPE 6th June, 1944.


    Seven Hundred French civilians were killed today when US Forces invaded Europe. Opposition to the invasion was running high. “We are dying for no reason” said a French citizen who spoke to reporters only on the condition of anonymity. “ I hate to say this, but life was better under Hitler.”

    The invasion has caused severe environmental damage. American troops, trucks, tanks, and machinery, have destroyed miles of pristine French shoreline and thousands of acres of ecologically sensitive wetlands. It is believed that the home of an endangered species, the Spineless French Frog, was destroyed in the process, threatening the species with extinction.    A representative of Greenpeace, said that his organization, which tried to prevent the invasion, was appalled at the destruction, but not surprised. “This is an example of how the US military destroys the environment without a second thought”, said Christine Moanmore, “and it is all about corporate greed.”

    Contacted in his Manhattan condo, a member of the French Government-in-exile who fled France when disciplined soldiers of the German government occupied it, said the US invasion was all about protecting US financial interests. “Everyone knows that President Roosevelt has ties to Big Beer”, said Pierre LeWimp. “Once the German beer industry has been conquered, Roosevelt and his beer cronies will control the world market and make a fortune.”

    Administration supporters claimed that the aggressive US actions were based in part upon the assertions of controversial Jewish scientist Albert Einstein who has speculated that the German Government was secretly developing a so called “atomic bomb.”     Such a weapon could produce casualties on a scale never seen before and cause environmental damage which could last for thousands of years. But the German leader, Adolf Hitler, has denied having such a weapon and international inspectors were unable to locate this weapon, even after spending two long weekends in a German beergarten looking for them.       Mistreatment of Jews at so called “concentration camps” has been rumoured but remains unproven. But many reports by "independent investigators" have surfaced that captured German soldiers were "rendered" by the Americans to allied countries for incarceration without trial.     Amnesty International has denounced the US for not providing lawyers for hundreds of thousands of German soldiers, and for not specifying what crimes they committed to warrant incarceration.

    Several thousand US soldiers died in the first few days of the invasion and French officials are concerned that the thousands of rotting corpses pose a serious public health risk. “The Americans should have planned for this in advance”, they said. “ It is their mess and we don’t propose to clean it up.”

    It is believed that the USA also intends to invade Germany and topple the legitimate government of that country, headed by the very popular Adolph Hitler.    New York Times reporter Dee has demanded to know "by what right does the US think they have to invade Germany?"

    Nomenclature
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -   edited January 23
    @Bogan

    Seven Hundred French civilians were killed today when US Forces invaded Europe. Opposition to the invasion was running high. “We are dying for no reason” said a French citizen who spoke to reporters only on the condition of anonymity. “ I hate to say this, but life was better under Hitler.”

    Ah yes. That no-nonsense champion of human rights, good old Adolf Hitler. 

    I have to say Bogan, I'm impressed that you have a 1944 copy of Der Sturmer. I'm guessing it must be your most prized possession, next to your Gestapo trench coat.

    Dee
  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  

    DEE: They've bled us white, the b*****ds. They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers.
    BARNADOT: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.
    DEE: Yeah.
    BARNADOT: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.
    DEE: Yeah. All right, BARNY. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?!
    PILOTEER: The aqueduct?
    DEE: What?
    PILOTEER: The aqueduct.
    DEE: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.
    JULESKORNGOLD: And the sanitation.  
    BARNADOT: Oh, yeah, the sanitation, DEE. Remember what the city used to be like?    God! This place used to stink before the Romans came here.
    DEE: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done.
    JUST-SAYIN: And the roads.
    DEE: Well, yeah. Obviously the roads. I mean, the roads go without saying, don't they? But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads--
    MAXX: Irrigation.
    JUST-SAYIN: Medicine.
    NOMENCLATURE: Huh? Heh? Huh...
    JOHN-C-87 #2: Education.
    PAMELAJOHNSON: Ohh...
    DEE: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
    JACK/EXCON: And the wine.
    BARNADOT: Oh, yes. Yeah...
    NOMENCLATURE: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss, DEE, if the Romans left. Huh.
    MinesubCraftStarved: Public baths.
    JOHN-C-87: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now, DEE.
    BARNADOT: Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this.
    MAXX: Hehh, heh. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.
    DEE: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, public safety, public baths, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
    JUST-SAYIN:  Peace?
    DEE: Oh. Peace? !

  • DeeDee 4958 Pts   -  
    @Bogan

    Good ole Bogend at least you're consistent with your masters teachings .......


  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Like the lie of racial equality?      
  • DeeDee 4958 Pts   -  
    @Bogan

    Like the lie of racial equality?      

    To say something is a lie first you have to demonstrate this to be the case , you do not even try , you just put forward your deeply flawed opinions expecting others to take your word because you say so.




  • BoganBogan 266 Pts   -  
    Look in the mirror.
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -  
    @Bogan
    Look in the mirror.

    Omg, the sheer devastating burn of the comeback! You must have been working for hours on that beauty.


    Dee
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