What things should not be taught in public schools, and why?

JulesKorngold

Religion should have no place in public schools.

Bogan

@JulesKorngold ;   Religion should have no place in public schools.

Then could you socialists please stop preaching socialism to our kids?  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@piloteer ; @JulesKorngold ; The demonic religion of Darwinian eviloution being forced upon our children via the false doctrine of a "biological science" in 1963 in conjunction with anti-God court decisions like Engel v. Vitale (1962) at the behest of wicked atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair (removal of Jesus and prayer from the classroom) has no rival relevant to the destruction and death and hopelessness and nihilism that has engulfed our public school students up through our Marxist institutions of colleges and universities; this, as there is NO greater progenitor of atheism - secular humanism i.e., death of the soul, mind, body, then Darwin's idi-ocy forced upon the naive minds of our youth. Atheism-Evolution-Secular Humanism are death to America and death to our posterity and those who adhere to these philosophies and religions of the demonic are a metastasizing evil and their presence is death to all that is sustainable, holy, good, righteous. Jesus - Christianity offer the only Hope for our students and our Nation. 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@piloteer ; @JulesKorngold ; The demonic religion of Darwinian eviloution being forced upon our children via the false doctrine of a "biological science" in 1963 in conjunction with anti-God court decisions like Engel v. Vitale (1962) at the behest of wicked atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair (removal of Jesus and prayer from the classroom) has no rival relevant to the destruction and death and hopelessness and nihilism that has engulfed our public school students up through our Marxist institutions of colleges and universities; this, as there is NO greater progenitor of atheism - secular humanism i.e., death of the soul, mind, body, then Darwin's idi-ocy forced upon the naive minds of our youth. Atheism-Evolution-Secular Humanism are death to America and death to our posterity and those who adhere to these philosophies and religions of the demonic are a metastasizing evil and their presence is death to all that is sustainable, holy, good, righteous. Jesus - Christianity offer the only Hope for our students and our Nation. 

The fact evolution is true is the reason we have modern medicine. The fact religion is false is why we have needless, countless wars.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Evolution is NOT true, never has been, never will be...evolution is a lie from the devil and a deception that creates evil men like yourself as it destroys our youth and crumbles our foundations.

jack

@piloteer

What things should not be taught in public schools, and why?

Hello p:

I don't believe information, by itself, is dangerous.  In terms of religious and sexual matters, one can be taught about what people do, without teaching them that it's good to do it..

Freedom is hard.. Our founders knew that.  That's why the 1st Amendment is FIRST.

excon

RickeyHoltsclaw

@jack @piloteer ; @Factfinder ; @JulesKorngold We should STOP teaching our children to be atheists via the religion of evolution/secular humanism and return Jesus to the classrooms along with prayer and patriotism.

just_sayin

@piloteer
There are several things that should not be taught in school that are very relevant for today:

1) We should not teach kids that they can know someone's privilege, guilt, oppressor/victim status, intentions, implicit biases, or their fragility by only knowing their names.
2) We should not teach that justice means equality of outcomes.  Instead we should teach them that justice is not based on their group identity, but on their individual actions.  We should teach that equality is evenly applied processes, not evenly distributed outcomes.
3) We should not teach that there are 72 genders (or whatever the number is this week).  Instead we should teach that there are 2 genders: a male and a female and that this is the only combination that reproduces.
4) We should not teach children that they can just say 'I feel like a woman' and 'poof' they are then transformed into a woman.  Such dismissive beliefs quite literally demean women, for they remove the meaning of the term 'woman'.
5) We should not teach that your race determines your outcome.  I'm sure many Appalachian kids with no shoes and who are starving would find the idea of white privilege odd.  If white privilege were really a thing, then these kids would save their pennies or just rob Wal-Mart for some of that stuff.
6) We should not teach students that they are entitled to other people's wealth.  This just promotes greed and envy.  We should teach them to be happy at other people's success and that they have agency to make choices that will help them to achieve more also.
7) We should not teach students that the unborn are not alive.  This is just biologically wrong and driven by a political desire to dehumanize the unborn.
8) We should not teach kids that its OK to discriminate against some people if they are the races or genders that you don't like.  True justice does not show favoritism nor discriminate against others based on their race, no matter what leftists say.
9) We should not teach students that if someone doesn't accept something you do that they hate you.  True love cares enough to say some things are wrong and unhelpful.  Love isn't blind acceptance of all one does, but of the individual despite all that one does.  Tolerance in relationships is a virtue, tolerance in what is called truth is a travesty.

jack

just_sayin said:

There are several things that should not be taught in school that are very relevant for today:

Hello just_:

And, to keep that stuff FROM being taught, we only had to BAN 3,363 books.

https://pen.org/2023-banned-book-list/

Du*de!

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

There are several things that should not be taught in school that are very relevant for today:

Hello just_:

And, to keep that stuff FROM being taught, we only had to BAN 3,363 books.

https://pen.org/2023-banned-book-list/

Du*de!

excon

Most of the books, other than the Dr Suess one that leftists tried to get banned, had explicit or graphical depictions of sex such as Gender Queer, that had a section where the main character is seen performing fellatio on a wooden phalanx and a minor boy.  In another scene is a naked man holding the manhood of a naked boy, who is not yet a man, and the character wishing that would happen to her/him.  Now Jack, I don't deny that how to perform oral sex might be beneficial for a convict to know, but I question whether it is appropriate for grade school students.

Joeseph

@just_sayin


Just Lying is worried about what's apporiate reading material in schools , explicit sexual content should be banned unless of course it's the ......BILE .....YOU GOTTA  LAUGH 

That evening an old man from the hill country of Ephraim, who was living in Gibeah (the inhabitants of the place were Benjamites), came in from his work in the fields. 17 When he looked and saw the traveler in the city square, the old man asked, “Where are you going? Where did you come from?”

18 He answered, “We are on our way from Bethlehem in Judah to a remote area in the hill country of Ephraim where I live. I have been to Bethlehem in Judah and now I am going to the house of the Lord.[a] No one has taken me in for the night. 19 We have both straw and fodder for our donkeys and bread and wine for ourselves your servants—me, the woman and the young man with us. We don’t need anything.”

20 “You are welcome at my house,” the old man said. “Let me supply whatever you need. Only don’t spend the night in the square.” 21 So he took him into his house and fed his donkeys. After they had washed their feet, they had something to eat and drink.

22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”

23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”

25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.

27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.

29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!”

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@jack @piloteer ; @Factfinder ; @JulesKorngold We should STOP teaching our children to be atheists via the religion of evolution/secular humanism and return Jesus to the classrooms along with prayer and patriotism.

Evolution is a proven scientific fact with tons of evidence, observation and predictable results leading to life saving medical techniques. Christianity brought us the dark ages, bloody wars, systematic discrimination and medieval torture, murders of all those who didn't believe in elf gods (inquisitions), depravity and human misery around the world. You should really stop embarrassing yourself. 

Bogan

@just_sayin

JS quote   2) We should not teach that justice means equality of outcomes.  Instead we should teach them that justice is not based on their group identity, but on their individual actions.  We should teach that equality is evenly applied processes, not evenly distributed outcomes.

 Then you will need to come up with an explanation which accounts for the indisputable fact that some races are successful in advanced societies, and some (excluding some talented individuals) are not.   I have asked you to provide that explanation months ago.    The fact that you can not come up with one should have told you by now that your position is unexplainable, while my position is viable and logical.  

 

JS quote   5) We should not teach that your race determines your outcome. 

 Let the truth be told, though the heavens may fall.     We should teach them the truth.    That some races are on the whole, not as smart as other races, and sad though that fact may be, that is the reality they must deal with.     And we should teach them that genetics and violence are linked.      Men are much more violent than women.      Young men are much more violent than old men.     Young people tend to grow out of violent criminal behaviour around the age of 40.  And while all races have people within their ranks who are genetically very violent, some races have genetically violent people at a much higher rate than those from successful races. Failure to tell the inconvenient truth will result in three things.  

 1. The number of very violent and intellectually challenged people in western societies will increase through birth rate differentials and through immigration.     It is therefore imperative for western societies to openly discriminate against the importation of dysfunctional races into their advanced societies, unless a simple IQ test can be used to assess a candidate’s suitability, followed by a long probationary period for citizenship, where immediate deportation will ensue if that candidate engages in serious criminal behaviour.

 2.    Resentment among the low IQ and violence prone races will increase because they are being told by opportunistic and corrupt race baiting politicians that the reason for the glaring disparity between racial outcomes is because of systemic racism by the white race.      This excuse appeals to the vanity of the low IQ, high violence dysfunctional races, and justifies in their own minds serious criminal behaviour against the successful races, Especially the white people they are being taught to despise and resent.

 3.  The belief by even intelligent young people that the reason for the glaring disparity between races can only be accounted for by the fact that their own successful societies are intrinsically racist and rotten.     And the only solution is to create a socialist totalitarian society where governments enforces racial equality, either through onerous taxes upon the productive, already failed policies such as DEI, governments taking over the roles of private industry and running grocery stores and shopping centers, and other idiotic policies such as “defund the police” and  “no cash bail bonds.”

 

JS quote    8) We should not teach kids that its OK to discriminate against some people if they are the races or genders that you don't like.  True justice does not show favoritism nor discriminate against others based on their race, no matter what leftists say.

That won’t work either.     People discriminate against people that they perceive to be a threat to their safety, or for a lot of other perfectly understandable reasons.     Everybody discriminates.  Your position is akin to saying that Jewish schools should hire armed Muslim security guards to protect Jewish kids.    For God’s sake think before you come out with doozies like that, JS.   

Bogan

@RickeyHoltsclaw ;    Evolution is NOT true, never has been, never will be...evolution is a lie from the devil and a deception that creates evil men like yourself as it destroys our youth and crumbles our foundations.

Which equates precisely with Debate Island's own PamelaJohnson that the earth is flat.   

polytheistwitch

Obviously curriculums that served people in the past need to be updated so that the kids of today are getting what they need to be able to function in society. Which is what school should be doing educating people to be a productive citizen and functional in society. I absolutely 100% do not think religion should be taught in schools at all. Now if you want to offer a comparative religion elective that they could take instead of a study hall I don't have a problem with that as long as it's just the basic tenants of the faith and nothing more. And part of the only reason I think religion should be available in schools is because it's often a factor in the social and political landscape. Well I still think physical fitness is important and necessary I think we need to stop looking at it like a sports thing. Most kids are not athletes and they're not going to be athletes and if they are athletes they're probably already in a school sport. Alternative types of physical education like yoga, Pilates ,Tai chi even martial arts should be available for kids in schools that don't want to do something that ends in the word ball. I also think if your child's involved in something like gymnastics outside of school they should be able to get a waiver and take something else in the place of gym because they're getting their physical fitness outside of the school building. I think in some ways it's easier to talk about what should be taught in schools compared to what should not be. Personally I think there needs to be complete overhaul of how schools taught how kids are expected to learn and what topics they address.

Factfinder

polytheistwitch said:

Obviously curriculums that served people in the past need to be updated so that the kids of today are getting what they need to be able to function in society. Which is what school should be doing educating people to be a productive citizen and functional in society. I absolutely 100% do not think religion should be taught in schools at all. Now if you want to offer a comparative religion elective that they could take instead of a study hall I don't have a problem with that as long as it's just the basic tenants of the faith and nothing more. And part of the only reason I think religion should be available in schools is because it's often a factor in the social and political landscape. Well I still think physical fitness is important and necessary I think we need to stop looking at it like a sports thing. Most kids are not athletes and they're not going to be athletes and if they are athletes they're probably already in a school sport. Alternative types of physical education like yoga, Pilates ,Tai chi even martial arts should be available for kids in schools that don't want to do something that ends in the word ball. I also think if your child's involved in something like gymnastics outside of school they should be able to get a waiver and take something else in the place of gym because they're getting their physical fitness outside of the school building. I think in some ways it's easier to talk about what should be taught in schools compared to what should not be. Personally I think there needs to be complete overhaul of how schools taught how kids are expected to learn and what topics they address.

I agree with some of what you say. Very good idea about martial arts being taught as children learn self discipline in the martial arts and that will take them a long way in life.

I have a question though: In the embolden portion of your response above, you appear to be contradicting yourself somewhat. Can you elaborate more? The second sentence seem to be contrary to the "at all" final two words of the end of the previous first sentence. Thanks.

just_sayin

@Bogan
Then you will need to come up with an explanation which accounts for the indisputable fact that some races are successful in advanced societies, and some (excluding some talented individuals) are not.   I have asked you to provide that explanation months ago.    The fact that you can not come up with one should have told you by now that your position is unexplainable, while my position is viable and logical.  

Bogie, I think you might need some memory pills.  In another thread I had mentioned that you have made the 'correlation equals causation' mistake.  The reasons for poor Black kids in urban areas are very similar to why poor white kids do poorly in school in Appalachia.  Disproportionately living in single parent homes, poverty, family has a low value of education, drug use, poor quality schools, etc.  

Let the truth be told, though the heavens may fall.     We should teach them the truth.    That some races are on the whole, not as smart as other races, and sad though that fact may be, that is the reality they must deal with.     And we should teach them that genetics and violence are linked.      Men are much more violent than women.      Young men are much more violent than old men.     Young people tend to grow out of violent criminal behaviour around the age of 40.  And while all races have people within their ranks who are genetically very violent, some races have genetically violent people at a much higher rate than those from successful races. Failure to tell the inconvenient truth will result in three things.  

Well in general, men do commit more violent crimes than women.  Young men are more likely to be violent than old men.  However, there is no violence gene.  I would argue that disproportionate violent crimes are committed by minorities, not because they are minorities, but are influenced by higher rates of single parent hood, more likely to be part of a gang, poverty, drugs, cultural views on what to do when you feel disrespected, etc.  

I think the failure to address the crisis of single parent homes on children's outcomes, particularly boys outcomes, is the inconvenient truth that must be addressed.  

Before you spend your money on brain pills - read this:  https://www.webmd.com/brain/ss/slideshow-brain-supplements.

jack

just_sayin said:

Now Jack, I don't deny that how to perform oral sex might be beneficial for a convict to know, but I question whether it is appropriate for grade school students.

Hello again, just_:

As I said above, information by itself, isn't harmful.  And, sometimes, excon or not, it's helpful.

I WISH I read a book on how to perform oral sex when I was a child.  Truly, you don't wanna know how???   Ahhh..  That's right, sex is bad so you shouldn't know how to do it..

Du*de!  Right wingers are sooooo dum..  

excon

MayCaesar

My hot take: it does not matter whatsoever.

Look, I have gone through 9 years of general public education in Russia, a country with famously solid fundamental science education - and have learned absolutely nothing. Everything I know is a result of me studying on my own in my spare time, or reading books hidden between class textbooks instead of listening to the teachers. I knew pretty early that I was interested in technical fields such as math, physics and computer science, so I pretty much ignored everything else and put all of my efforts into excelling at these disciplines. Was doing multidimensional integration and reading books on cosmology when others were learning what a quadratic equation was. Everything else (aside from history which I was really interested in and devoured books on) I learned by reading bits and pieces here and there. Barely knew any English when I was 15, then fully immersed myself in it by prohibiting myself from consuming any entertainment in Russian until I become fluent in English.

My point is, to learn anything, you have to be motivated. Simply being told by the teacher that this class is important will do nothing for you and you will forget everything one week after the last class. On the other hand, if you are pursuing a particular goal and know that the course material is one of the prerequisites to achieving it, or if you just find the subject genuinely interesting - then you do not need a teacher: you will pick up everything you need on your own.

Things change when you enter university: the material becomes too difficult to keep motivated by interest alone, and you need a push that the university system provides. Still, for the most part lectures and tutorials in themselves do not do much beyond introducing you to the material - I barely showed up in any of the classes in my first 2 years of undergraduate studies, spending entire days in libraries or in my cozy little study space at home. The homework assignments and the exams are what did the trick, not the professor explaining what is already explained in hundreds of books.

With proper parenting, a kid attending a public school merely needs to avoid a few dangers: bullying, forced medication (alarmingly common in Western schools), bad role models among classmates... Whatever actually is happening in class is fairly inconsequential.

In rare cases, the kid will run into an outstanding teacher that will keep the entire class focused on the material. It is unlikely to happen in a public, or even a private, school, however. You are much more likely to find someone like that at Harvard or MIT. Better yet, scour Youtube and find a few genius lecturers whose lectures are publicly available: do not need to take a $200K student loan to learn from these guys.

Bogan

@just_sayin

Bogie, I think you might need some memory pills.  In another thread I had mentioned that you have made the 'correlation equals causation' mistake. 

(Groan)   You need some too.     On another topic I explained to you IN FULL that the term “correlation does not denote causation” term was first coined by Charles Darwin’s cousin, Sir Isaac Dalton (which reinforces the notion that intelligence runs in families) a noted polymath, atheist, believer in eugenics, inventor of statical analysis, and also inventor or the isobaric weather chart.    What Dalton meant by his term is that statistical co relation DOES NOT ALWAYS denote causation.     His term is always misused by people who don’t like it when statistical analysis proves that their beliefs are invalid.     However, they never use the term if the statistics support their own views.

 

 JS quote     The reasons for poor Black kids in urban areas are very similar to why poor white kids do poorly in school in Appalachia.  Disproportionately living in single parent homes, poverty, family has a low value of education, drug use, poor quality schools, etc. 

Historically, rural areas, especially in economic depressed areas where the industries such as coal mining have moved on, end up having a lot of poor people.     But prior to the scourge of methamphetamine, Appalachia was noted for it’s low crime rate, low number of police per person, and it's low incarceration rates.  There is little co relation between poverty and crime.   But there is a high co relation between race, welfare, and crime.      Intelligent people are upwardly mobile regardless of race and regardless of environmental circumstances.     JD Vance is a perfect example of this. 

 

JS quote   Well in general, men do commit more violent crimes than women.  Young men are more likely to be violent than old men.  However, there is no violence gene. 

There is no specific violence gene but there must be a collection of genes which working together, make people violent.    Personally, I think that scientific researchers are just as aware of this as sll astronomers in the 15th Century knew that the earth was not the centre of the universe.     My reason for saying this is because international scientific conferences involving DNA and behaviour are always held in camera, with the public and the press pointedly excluded.     What the scientists discuss among themselves is obviously so politically charged that they prefer to keep their knowledge to themselves, rather than incite the mother of all furore’s.     This is especially so when their own financial survival is dependent upon governments which pay their salaries.   Every scientist knows what happens to even eminent scientists and Nobel prize winners like James Watson if he says something which contradicts the woke (or even the liberal)  party line. 

 

JS quote  I would argue that disproportionate violent crimes are committed by minorities, not because they are minorities, but are influenced by higher rates of single parent hood, more likely to be part of a gang, poverty, drugs, cultural views on what to do when you feel disrespected, etc. 

 Your analysis falls flat when you remember that there are plenty of poor white people today who’s crime rates do not approach that of poor blacks and Hispanics.     Poverty has only a tangential causal link to crime.     Britain in 1900 had poverty at a scale which today, is difficult to believe.    Yet it had the lowest homicide rate ever recorded for any industrialized society in history.    And that at a time when weapons such as handguns were not subject to any restrictions at all, and people could, and did, own machine guns.    

 
JS quote      I think the failure to address the crisis of single parent homes on children's outcomes, particularly boys outcomes, is the inconvenient truth that must be addressed. 

 Low IQ people breed like flies which is why the US and Australian national IQ’s are declining.    Intelligent people, especially intelligent females, are hardly breeding at all.    This will not bode well for the future of both of our countries.   Young, and even very young low IQ teenage girls get pregnant to low IQ teenage boys.   Low IQ people have kids and don’t look after them.   Low IQ people do badly at school because they are not intelligent enough to handle the work, and too lazy to even try.     Low IQ people know that there are plenty of low paying entry level jobs around but they are smart enough to know that they are better off living on welfare.     Low IQ people drive like the id-iots they are, which is why insurance companies “discriminate” against poor postcodes containing mainly low IQ people.    Low IQ people think that criminal behaviour is the best way to get ahead without working, and that is why they end up in jail.   Jails are chock a block full of low IQ people.    Those jails are also disproportionately full of blacks and Hispanics.  What does that tell you?   

polytheistwitch

@Factfinder I personally don't think it should be taught at all but if it has to be that's would be my criteria. Personally I prefer religion not be in school in any way, shape or form.

just_sayin

@MayCaesar
I couldn't disagree more.  Any institution that spends that much time with a child has some influence over them.  Let's not forget the words of Lenin:

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." by Vladimir Lenin

jack

just_sayin said:

Any institution that spends that much time with a child has some influence over them.  Let's not forget the words of Lenin:

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." by Vladimir Lenin

Hello just_:

Du*de..  Step away from the FOX News..  It's rotting your brain..

IF an institution had TOTAL control over the lives of children, what Lenin said would be true.  But, that ISN'T the way it is here and it never will be..  Why do you make up so much sh*t??  I've never called you just_lying before, but don't test me.

excon

RickeyHoltsclaw

@jack ; You are a mentally and spiritually ill individual...CNN-MSNBC-ABC-CBS have rotted your brain and Satan has rotted your soul.

NEWSMAX

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Any institution that spends that much time with a child has some influence over them.  Let's not forget the words of Lenin:

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." by Vladimir Lenin

Hello just_:

Du*de..  Step away from the FOX News..  It's rotting your brain..

IF an institution had TOTAL control over the lives of children, what Lenin said would be true.  But, that ISN'T the way it is here and it never will be..  Why do you make up so much sh*t??  I've never called you just_lying before, but don't test me.

excon

Du*de, anyone who spends 6 hours a day for 180 days a year with a minor is influencing them, even if not intentionally.  

jack

just_sayin said:

Du*de, anyone who spends 6 hours a day for 180 days a year with a minor is influencing them, even if not intentionally.  

Hello again, just_:

If our teachers teach the accepted curriculum, we HOPE they do influence our children. That's what we hire 'em for.   If a communist slid through the hiring process, he'd be outed on day 1. 

I remember some particularly good teachers I had in my early years who influenced me greatly..  One was my civics teacher and other was my music teacher..  Yes, if you're wondering..  I learned how to be an exceptional American who played the violin.

excon

Bogan

jack/excon quote   If our teachers teach the accepted curriculum, we HOPE they do influence our children. That's what we hire 'em for.   If a communist slid through the hiring process, he'd be outed on day 1. 

Got news for you.    When you have teachers supported by their own union leadership teaching children that a man with mental problems can change his sex just by wishing it to be so, then people with far left views (communists) are already extant within your education system.