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What purpose are statues of George Floyd meant to serve?

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  • TreeManTreeMan 329 Pts   -  
    IDK, although George Floyd himself wasn't very important, he was basically just an average American, he has become an icon for black/coloured rights and against police brutality.
    @Dee
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1410 Pts   -  
    @Dee
    I think the idea could be for police academy trainees to tackle the statue to the ground and break the neck within nine minutes.
    If a trainee is unfortunate enough to live in Newark, the training sessions will be very tough indeed.
    exconOakTownA
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited October 2021
    @TreeMan

    IDK, although George Floyd himself wasn't very important, he was basically just an average American,

    I wouldn’t call a low life criminal like Floyd  an “average American “ I think it’s unfair to label average Americans this way.

    Remember this guy was part of a gang that pistol whipped a women with children in her own home that’s a scum bag not an “average American “ as anyone that terrifies and treats a woman and her children this way is a scum bag 

    Floyd didn’t deserve to die this way , guilty of a crime or not no one deserves to die this way and I get the rage from people at the police force and the system behind such events , but I have to say a statue such as the one I posted sends out I think the totally wrong message 

    he has become an icon for black/coloured rights and against police brutality. 

    Really? I’m reading the statues are actually pretty divisive 
    Blastcat
  • An artist can be inspired by many things?


  • JoeKerrJoeKerr 241 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: An artist can be inspired by many things?

    Yes indeed, as two exhibits in an art gallery in Bournemouth England can demonstrate.
    The two pieces of "art" in question are two suicide vests created by brothers Jake and Dino Chapman which they call "Monuments to Immortality".
    Needless to say, there are calls to have these pieces of "art" removed.
    If anyone thinks such things can be called art, then I suggest they have a word with those who lost loved ones caused by a crazy wearing one of these pieces of "art" and see if they consider these things artistic.
    As for a statue of George Floyd, his death and the way he died was a disgrace and a stain on the local police reputation, a stain that will take a long time to disappear, if ever, but I don't believe a statue of George Floyd is the way to go. He wasn't exactly a role model, was he?@John_C_87
    Blastcat
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1779 Pts   -  
    It just shows that in America, even drug addicts can be immortalized.
    BlastcatOakTownA
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 565 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    How I interpret it is that it isn't about the man himself, it's about the effects of his death. It's about the group that rallied for change. He wasn't a martyr, and we all know that. Also, horrible people still get statues, like the Kims in North Korea. It's about the people that support the person, not the majority, that decide whether or not a statue is deserved.
    exconBlastcat
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    An artist can be inspired by many things?

    Thank you for that blinding revelation …..who would have thought? 
    Blastcat
  • @Dee
    You are welcome.
    Truthy has to begin somewhere, sometimes it's just best to keep it simple.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1779 Pts   -  
    @Luigi7255

    It's about what the woke mob and the oligarchs decide to support.  Floyd deserves a statue while they're taking down statues of Thomas Jefferson?!?  Gimme a break.
    Blastcat
  • @JoeKerr

    He wasn't exactly a role model, was he?
    He was exactly that a role model.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1410 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    It just shows that in America, even drug addicts can be immortalized.

    I would hardly think that being a drug addict has anything to do with f all really. 

    OakTownA
  • JoeKerrJoeKerr 241 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: He was exactly that a role model.

    A role model for what?@John_C_87
    Dee
  • @Dee. He died a martyr for some reason. He was criminal who resisted arrest. He shouldn't have died and yes there is definitely racism in some ways in the police force, but overall he was pretty irrelevant. 
    BlastcatOakTownA
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1779 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw

    What else would it be for, poorly resisting arrest?
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 565 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    You use the word "woke" lightly I see. You seem to think that someone that helped people rally for major change postmortem, not just in this country, but around the world doesn't deserve a statue. I already pointed out that bad people still get statues as well, so your whataboutism point is irrelevant. The majority of D.C. got the subjective opinion that Jefferson was bad (probably through his hundreds of slaves), so they took it down. That is a democracy, which you seem to be against.
    xlJ_dolphin_473exconTreeManZeusAres42BlastcatPlaffelvohfenOakTownA
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • @JoeKerr
    A role model for what

    Any number of things...good and bad.
  • @Luigi7255

     The majority of D.C. got the subjective opinion that Jefferson was bad (probably through his hundreds of slaves), so they took it down. That is a democracy, which you seem to be against.

    Yet still, the world holds millions of slaves and a statue in memory removed is supposed to offset this fact? 

    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

    U.S. Constitution - Thirteenth Amendment | Resources | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1779 Pts   -  
    Luigi7255 said:
    @CYDdharta

    You use the word "woke" lightly I see. You seem to think that someone that helped people rally for major change postmortem, not just in this country, but around the world doesn't deserve a statue. I already pointed out that bad people still get statues as well, so your whataboutism point is irrelevant. The majority of D.C. got the subjective opinion that Jefferson was bad (probably through his hundreds of slaves), so they took it down. That is a democracy, which you seem to be against.
    We can see that wonderful change that people rallied for after Floyd reflected in the skyrocketing murder and violent crime rate.  
    BlastcatOakTownA
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1410 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    What else would it be for, poorly resisting arrest?

    Well, this may be a little off-field but my hunch, and bare in mind, only a hunch, is that the statue may and, may, just may, mind you, have something remotely to do with symbolizing the oppression, prejudice and brutality metered out to minority groups by the establishment and to remind said establishment that there is a better way. 

    But, Geeziz, that is only a wild guess.

    TreeManBlastcatSkepticalOneOakTownA
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1779 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:

    Well, this may be a little off-field but my hunch, and bare in mind, only a hunch, is that the statue may and, may, just may, mind you, have something remotely to do with symbolizing the oppression, prejudice and brutality metered out to minority groups by the establishment and to remind said establishment that there is a better way. 

    But, Geeziz, that is only a wild guess.

    How quaint, such an old-fashioned view.  The fashionable view is to look at statues as epitomizing the worst traits of the person who's likeness it bears.  The Floyd statue is a tribute to hard-working Fentanyl peddlers and armed robbers all across the country.
    BlastcatOakTownA
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1410 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    The Floyd statue is a tribute to hard-working Fentanyl peddlers and armed robbers all across the country.

    I'm sure that there are many statues depicting persons who have committed wrongs in their lives. And I am sure that those who did erect Floyd's statue were not exactly thinking of his bad traits but more of the racist overtones of the obnoxious panic-stricken (and no doubt, drug-induced cop) who killed him and what that represents. that cop was a completely sinless angel sent from Heaven to punish ni**ers, was he?

    BlastcatOakTownA
  • exconexcon 454 Pts   -   edited October 2021

    What purpose are statues of George Floyd meant to serve?

    Hello Dee:

    George Floyd was at the epicenter of a major political event.  He's a historical figure NOT because of who he is, but because of what happened to him.  I dunno if Rosa Parks was a wonderful person, but she's venerated for what happened to her in pretty much the same way..

    excon
    TreeManBlastcatPlaffelvohfenOakTownA
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited October 2021
    @excon

    Hello Excon, 


    Hello Dee:

    George Floyd was at the epicenter of a major political event. 

    That he was 

     He's a historical figure NOT because of who he is, but because of what happened to him.  

    Yes what happened to him was dreadful 

    I dunno if Rosa Parks was a wonderful person,

    To me she was as she grew up where black people could attend only certain (inferior) schools, could drink only from specified water fountains and could borrow books only from the “Black” library, among other restrictions, and yet she demonstrated tremendous courage in her stances against racism 



    but she's venerated for what happened to her in pretty much the same way..

    It’s not “pretty much the same way “ at all,  Floyd was apprehended and wrongfully murdered after trying to get away with a crime ,if you wish to compare the incredibly brave Ross parks with a scum bag who at one time with his “homies “ terrorized and pistol whipped a mother in front of her kids and brand him all American hero I’m not with you 

    What we all agree on is they both suffered from racism at that the compassion stops , Rosa Parks battled racism all her life Floyd did not he was a low life criminal who thought only of himself and not the damage or hurt he caused to others 





    BlastcatOakTownA
  • exconexcon 454 Pts   -  
    Dee said:

    What we all agree on is they both suffered from racism at that the compassion stops , Rosa Parks battled racism all her life Floyd did not he was a low life criminal who thought only of himself and not the damage or hurt he caused to others

    Hello again, Dee:

    In terms of their character, I don't disagree..  But, it's a distinction without a difference.  That he was a lowlife criminal and that she was a wonderful person will NOT be what they're remember for..  They'll be remembered because of what happened to them.

    excon

    BlastcatPlaffelvohfenOakTownA
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited October 2021
    @excon

    Hello again Excon ,

     That he was a lowlife criminal and that she was a wonderful person will NOT be what they're remember for.. 

    That depends on who you ask , but I’m guessing most would say “ Rosa Parks is remembered because she bravely fought racism “ and “ Floyd was a criminal wrongfully killed by a cop “ 

    They'll be remembered because of what happened to them.

    I get what you’re saying to me and most Rosa Parks is remembered for intentionally standing up to and fighting racism Floyd is not nor ever did , to me to mention their names in the same sentence is a slur on those incredibly brave and heroic black people who worked to change systematic racism in the US something I don’t think Floyd even bothered with such 

    Floyd acccidentally became a symbol a cause which was the furthest thing from his mind on the day it happened 

    Blastcat
  •  “ Floyd was a criminal wrongfully killed by a cop “ 
    In whole truth in basic principle, he was a black slave killed by an agent of the people. The basic argument is being black and not Caucasian, Asian, or Hispanic creates a false immunity of some people to the state of slavery as it stands today by order of the courts, not a state of war and debt for that war?
  • "Rosa Parks" was not fighting something as simple as the act of prejudice that is a serious understatement to her efforts as a human, she was objecting to the treatment of P.O.W's and had no clue she was even doing so as a united state. 
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited October 2021
    I do not mind statues of people who, in various ways, defined their times: whatever you think about George Floyd, he is quite a cultural phenomenon, and are these not phenomena statues are supposed to depict? I have never seen statues as having to promote something positive; rather, they have to immortalize important and influential events.

    In this context, I would not have any issue with, say, Hitler's statue being placed at the center of Alexanderplatz in Berlin. People are too afraid of symbols; a statue is not going to hurt anyone or cause anyone to become a Nazi, and if someone is uncomfortable looking at a Hitler-shaped chunk of metal, they have some serious psychological issues.

    Lenin's statues are all over Russia, even today, 30 years since the fall of the Soviet Union. I found it more funny while living there than annoying: Lenin looked a bit like a dwarf, and while I prefer elves personally, dwarves are fine as well.
    Oh, and if it is not clear, I consider Lenin to be even worse than Hitler, so I am not just talking smack here.
    Luigi7255Blastcat
  • exconexcon 454 Pts   -   edited October 2021
    Dee said:
    @excon

    Floyd acccidentally became a symbol a cause which was the furthest thing from his mind on the day it happened


    Hello again, Dee:

    I suspect that Rosa Parks had no idea that she'd become an icon either..  Yet, here we are..  Both of them, furthering the cause of freedom in spite of - and/or, because of - their character.

    excon
    BlastcatOakTownA
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @excon

    Hello again Excon , 

    Both of them, furthering the cause of freedom in spite of - and/or, because of - their character.

    excon


    Hello again Excon ……
    One of them intentionally attempting to do just that , the other the furthest thing from his mind as his only intention on the day was to rip off a shopkeeper ……but there you go ……
    BlastcatPlaffelvohfenOakTownA
  • Both of them, furthering the cause of freedom in spite of - and/or, because of - their character.

    Rosa Parks was furthering liberty, not freedom.




  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @excon

    Rosa Parks was taking an explicit stance against societal racism, putting her life on the line in the name of liberty. Whether she suspected or not that this would become an important historical event, her actions were intentional.

    The story with George Floyd is completely different; the guy did not stand up for anything and just randomly became a celebrity, as he happened to be a random victim of one of countless instances of police brutality. What happened to him was unfair, but he cannot take any credit for being celebrated.

    Furthermore, Rosa Parks’ actions were interpreted correctly by the society: she took a stance against racism and suffered due to racism. The only reason what happened to her happened is because of her skin color.
    There is, however, no reason to assume that George’s predicament was in any way related to his skin color. He was a victim of police brutality, same brutality that people of all colors face, disproportionately or not. Rosa, on the other hand, experienced something that only ever happened to “colored” people; no white person in the US has ever been asked by the driver to get up and yield the seat to a non-white person due to their skin color - while having the law on the latter’s side. Yet that is not the distinction recognized by the vast majority of those who call George a “hero”.

    There is no comparison between these events from the historical perspective.


    Blastcat
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Victimize the victim even after he is dead

    Dee said:
    @TreeMan

    IDK, although George Floyd himself wasn't very important, he was basically just an average American,

    I wouldn’t call a low life criminal like Floyd  an “average American “ I think it’s unfair to label average Americans this way.

    Remember this guy was part of a gang that pistol whipped a women with children in her own home that’s a scum bag not an “average American “ as anyone that terrifies and treats a woman and her children this way is a scum bag 

    Floyd didn’t deserve to die this way , guilty of a crime or not no one deserves to die this way and I get the rage from people at the police force and the system behind such events , but I have to say a statue such as the one I posted sends out I think the totally wrong message 

    he has become an icon for black/coloured rights and against police brutality. 

    Really? I’m reading the statues are actually pretty divisive 

    1. Calling a person a low life and a scum bag when he is the victim of police brutality, racism and murder is about as low an insult as I can imagine. Even if Floyd were the worst person on the planet, it would still not justify Derek Chauvin's actions that were in complete violation of his oath to serve and protect. The statue is not honouring Floyd's misdeeds. It is honouring a human life that was taken away by evil deeds. It should serve as a warning to prospective police. Such crimes by the police should NEVER be tolerated.

    2. By attacking Floyd's character, the statement attempts to deflect us from the police brutality, racism and murder that happened on May 25, 2020 that the whole world got to see, and is therefore yet another ad homimen argument from this member.  Dee's statement is not only completely devoid of compassion, but it actively goes to the other side towards the support of hate, violence and racism. To simply throw a bone and say that " he didn't deserve to die this way " does NOT mitigate Dee's attack on Floyd's character.

    3. Therefore, Dee's statement is about as nasty as kicking Floyd after he is dead. The lack of respect for another human being is appalling. The lack of humanity displayed cannot be and should not be tolerated in a forum where we are expected to engage in conversations in an honest, respectful manner. I for one do not engage with Dee, since this is a pattern of behavior. His hate speech is constant, it is below contempt, and I for one will not engage with the guy. However, I will push back on this kind of disgusting comment in case someone else finds hate speech of this kind as repulsive and unacceptable as I do.



    DeeOakTownA
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Dee doubles down on the ad hominem

    Dee said:
    @excon

    Hello again Excon ,

     That he was a lowlife criminal and that she was a wonderful person will NOT be what they're remember for.. 

    That depends on who you ask , but I’m guessing most would say “ Rosa Parks is remembered because she bravely fought racism “ and “ Floyd was a criminal wrongfully killed by a cop “ 

    They'll be remembered because of what happened to them.

    I get what you’re saying to me and most Rosa Parks is remembered for intentionally standing up to and fighting racism Floyd is not nor ever did , to me to mention their names in the same sentence is a slur on those incredibly brave and heroic black people who worked to change systematic racism in the US something I don’t think Floyd even bothered with such 

    Floyd acccidentally became a symbol a cause which was the furthest thing from his mind on the day it happened 


    1. Dee does it again. He attacks Floyd's character as if this had ANYTHING to do with his torture and murder at the hands of the police who swear to serve and protect. At best, it's a mere red herring to the real suffering, the real racism and the real hate, and the real torture and real murder that transpired on May 25, 2020.

    2. This ad hominem is offered en lieu of an actual reason to not have the statue. The only reason offered is that Floyd was a bad guy. Floyd might not have been perfect, but the ACTUAL bad guy in this story is Derek Chauvin, who was found guilty by a jury of his peers.

    3. Therefore, Dee's attack on Floyd is completely irrelevant to the discussion, is disgusting. It could not be more low. I'd be ashamed of ever uttering such racist, hateful, crazy nonsense.
    Dee
  • exconexcon 454 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:

    There is no comparison between these events from the historical perspective.

    Hello May:

    Yet, they BOTH move the needle in pursuit of a perfect union.

    excon
    BlastcatOakTownA
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: A disgusting false equivalency between a victim of police brutality and a person who had millions killed


    Preamble to the argument:


    MayCaesar wrote :

    I do not mind statues of people who, in various ways, defined their times: whatever you think about George Floyd, he is quite a cultural phenomenon, and are these not phenomena statues are supposed to depict? I have never seen statues as having to promote something positive; rather, they have to immortalize important and influential events.

    In this context, I would not have any issue with, say, Hitler's statue being placed at the center of Alexanderplatz in Berlin.
    The argument:

    1. In a conversation about a statue of George Floyd, MayCaesar says that he would not have any issue with a statue of Hitler who had millions murdered. Well, most people would.

    2. MayCaesar says that they represent cultural phenomenons and quite forgets that the Floyd statue represents the horrible suffering of black people from the hands of the police. He quite forgets that we celebrate HEROES when we put up a statue. Hitler might be a hero to MayCaesar, but not to the majority of decent human beings. To equate what Hitler did with what Floyd and so many black people have suffered is beyond the pale and smacks of racism, hate and a call for more racially motivated hate crimes.

    Therefore, the false equivalency should be opposed, stomped on, called out for what it is. This kind of comment has no place in an honourable debate, or indeed in any honest conversation. The statement tries to justify hate, racism and violence from those who have vowed to serve and protect us. Not just the white people but all of us.


    TreeManDee
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: A third attack on Floyd's character

    Dee said:
    @excon

    Hello again Excon , 

    Both of them, furthering the cause of freedom in spite of - and/or, because of - their character.

    excon


    Hello again Excon ……
    One of them intentionally attempting to do just that , the other the furthest thing from his mind as his only intention on the day was to rip off a shopkeeper ……but there you go ……

    1. Dee goes out of his way three times to attack George Floyd's character in here so far as if that has anything to do with the crime or the reason for the statue that this debate is actually about.

    This can have the chilling effect of causing us to not think about that horrible crime, and the horrible suffering that black people have endured at the hands of white people all over the world but especially, in this case, in the USA. It's a mere deflection from the actual topic, and I have to wonder why Dee insists on poisoning the well for us about Floyd who did not merit torture or murder for a very petty crime.


    2. Floyd's crimes or character flaws do in no way justify his torture and murder at the hands of the police. He was tortured, humiliated, and then murdered on the street as if it was normal police policy. We all know that it is not. We all know that Chauvin was found guilty as charged. By attempting to deflect from a horrible hate crime, Dee is siding with Chauvin, as if attempting to steal cigarettes was any kind of justification for the white policeman's reprehensible actions.


    Therefore, Dee's insistence of Floyd's character is not only out of line, but it is itself reprehensible, and appears to be an endorsement of racism.
    Dee
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @Blastcat


    1. Calling a person a low life and a scum bag when he is the victim of police brutality, racism and murder is about as low an insult as I can imagine. 

    I’m calling the person what they were a low life scum bag , where I live a man who with a gang pistol whips a woman in front of her kids is scum , we all know you recently pleaded for everyone on not not to mock Hitler by him superstitious demonstrating clearly what an insane PC nut you are 

    Even if Floyd were the worst person on the planet, it would still not justify Derek Chauvin's actions that were in complete violation of his oath to serve and protect.

    I never once attempted to justify Chauvins action you clot , I condemned them if you cared to read instead of doing your usual stalking and trolling 

     The statue is not honouring Floyd's misdeeds. It is honouring a human life that was taken away by evil deeds. It should serve as a warning to prospective police. Such crimes by the police should NEVER be tolerated. 

    Yes we know such crimes should not be tolerated thanks for that captain obvious , my disagreement lies with putting up a statue of a scum bag 

    2. By attacking Floyd's character, the statement attempts to deflect us from the police brutality, racism and murder that happened on May 25, 2020


    No deflection  here I clearly stated how I felt about police brutality , your inability to comprehend basic statements proves you clearly lack basic debating skills 

    If you wish to defend his “character” that’s on you in all this you haven’t once mentioned the victims of his crimes 


    that the whole world got to see, and is therefore yet another ad homimen argument from this member. 

    No it’s not an “ad hominem” I’m calling a scum bag what he is , what part of pistol whipping a woman in front of her kids is worthy of praise?

     Dee's statement is not only completely devoid of compassion, but it actively goes to the other side towards the support of hate, violence and racism. 

    Wonder when you would play the race card , did you not see my glowing tribute to the great Rosa Parks you id-iot?

    I do hate men who brutalise women yes , you respect them it seems you called for the deepest respect for Hitler 2 weeks age such is your hatred for Jews

    To simply throw a bone and say that " he didn't deserve to die this way " does NOT mitigate Dee's attack on Floyd's character.

    Again I don’t respect career criminals and men who abuse women , says more about you tan it does about me , do you want to share?

    3. Therefore, Dee's statement is about as nasty as kicking Floyd after he is dead. 

    If he were alive I would kick him for abusing a woman in front of her kids , sounds a bit like you who boasted at his prowress in martial arts , you seem to worship women beaters why’s that?

    I wouldn’t spit on him dead 

    The lack of respect for another human being is appalling. 

    You kiss his b-utt all you want I’m out 

    The lack of humanity displayed cannot be and should not be tolerated in a forum where we are expected to engage in conversations in an honest, respectful manner. I for one do not engage with Dee, since this is a pattern of behavior. His hate speech is constant, it is below contempt, and I for one will not engage with the guy.

    Yet here you are in your usual “moral “ outrage flagging everyone  and everything you disagree with , you do not get to tell others they have to respect a scum bag , you said Hitler deserves respect also …..that’s two  no’s from me tough guy 

     However, I will push back on this kind of disgusting comment in case someone else finds hate speech of this kind as repulsive and unacceptable as I do.


    I will push back on people like you who insist abusers of women must be honoured and Hitler must be respected as Jews had it coming that was your contention right? 

    Here is the scum bags business resume…….lovely man except if he wants to marry your daughter am I right?

    George Floyd’s Criminal Past

    • George Floyd moved to Minneapolis in 2014 after being released from prison in Houston, Texas following an arrest for aggravated robbery
    • On May 25, 2020, Floyd was arrested for passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a grocery store in Minneapolis
    • He was under the influence of fentanyl and methamphetamine at the time of arrest
    • Floyd has more than a decade-old criminal history at the time of the arrest and went to jail for atleast 5 times
    • George Floyd was the ringleader of a violent home invasion
    • He plead guilty to entering a woman’s home, pointing a gun at her stomach and searching the home for drugs and money, according to court records
    • Floyd was sentenced to 10 months in state jail for possession of cocaine in a December 2005 arrest
    • He had previously been sentenced to eight months for the same offense, stemming from an October 2002 arrest
    • Floyd was arrested in 2002 for criminal trespassing and served 30 days in jail
    • He had another stint for a theft in August 1998
    Blastcat
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @Blastcat

    1. Dee does it again. He attacks Floyd's character as if this had ANYTHING to do with his torture and murder at the hands of the police who swear to serve and protect. At best, it's a mere red herring to the real suffering, the real racism and the real hate, and the real torture and real murder that transpired on May 25, 2020.

    I asked a simple question regards putting up a statue to a scumbag , you’re very emotional calm down will you?

    2. This ad hominem is offered en lieu of an actual reason to not have the statue. The only reason offered is that Floyd was a bad guy. Floyd might not have been perfect, but the ACTUAL bad guy in this story is Derek Chauvin, who was found guilty by a jury of his peers. 

    I don’t believe a statue of a scum bag is the best message to give to people 

    3. Therefore, Dee's attack on Floyd is completely irrelevant to the discussion, is disgusting. It could not be more low. I'd be ashamed of ever uttering such racist, hateful, crazy nonsense. 

    My “observations” are the truth and perfectly relevant to call a man who with a gang pistol whipped a woman in front of her kids a “scum bag “ is a perfectly valid descriptor , it’s not racist or crazy but a statement of fact ….the reason you call it “racist “ is in an attempt to silence me but the stu-pity of your statement is laughable …..I praised a real black heroine Rosa Parks but of course you don’t mention that do you?

    You did also say last week calling Hiltler superstitious was deeply offensive to his memory ……you’re very mentally unwell mate  


    George Floyd’s Criminal Past

    • George Floyd moved to Minneapolis in 2014 after being released from prison in Houston, Texas following an arrest for aggravated robbery
    • On May 25, 2020, Floyd was arrested for passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a grocery store in Minneapolis
    • He was under the influence of fentanyl and methamphetamine at the time of arrest
    • Floyd has more than a decade-old criminal history at the time of the arrest and went to jail for atleast 5 times
    • George Floyd was the ringleader of a violent home invasion
    • He plead guilty to entering a woman’s home, pointing a gun at her stomach and searching the home for drugs and money, according to court records
    • Floyd was sentenced to 10 months in state jail for possession of cocaine in a December 2005 arrest
    • He had previously been sentenced to eight months for the same offense, stemming from an October 2002 arrest
    • Floyd was arrested in 2002 for criminal trespassing and served 30 days in jail
    • He had another stint for a theft in August 1998
    BlastcatPlaffelvohfen
  • exconexcon 454 Pts   -  
    Blastcat said:

    Therefore, Dee's insistence of Floyd's character is not only out of line, but it is itself reprehensible, and appears to be an endorsement of racism.
    Hello B:

    I dunno..  According to you we can't call ANYBODY a bad guy lest we jostle the stick that's up your backside.

    Du-de!

    excon

    DeeJoeKerr
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @Blastcat

    1. Dee goes out of his way three times to attack George Floyd's character in here so far as if that has anything to do with the crime or the reason for the statue that this debate is actually about. 

    Blastat goes out of his way to distort and lie , I never said his murder was justified we all know it was unjustified , most know he was also a scum bag 


    This can have the chilling effect of causing us to not think about that horrible crime, and the horrible suffering that black people have endured at the hands of white people all over the world but especially, in this case, in the USA. It's a mere deflection from the actual topic, and I have to wonder why Dee insists on poisoning the well for us about Floyd who did not merit torture or murder for a very petty crime. 


    Read above no one claimed he deserved torture that’s your 9th (and counting ) strawman 



    2. Floyd's crimes or character flaws do in no way justify his torture and murder at the hands of the police. He was tortured, humiliated, and then murdered on the street as if it was normal police policy. We all know that it is not. We all know that Chauvin was found guilty as charged. By attempting to deflect from a horrible hate crime, Dee is siding with Chauvin, as if attempting to steal cigarettes was any kind of justification for the white policeman's reprehensible actions. 

    Another strawman I never sided with Chauvin the opposite in fact so your constant lies and straw manning just prove after your last warning you’re back to trolling 


    Therefore, Dee's insistence of Floyd's character is not only out of line, but it is itself reprehensible, and appears to be an endorsement of racism.

    My calling a man who beats a woman and robs her in front of her kids a scum bag is a statement of fact , claiming I’m a racist for saying that proves you’re back to trolling , is my calling a decent human being called Rosa Parks a heroine racist as well ?

    Listen buddy you asked the site to respect Hitler and you said the Jews “had it coming” and now your holding forth on hatred and bigotry” …..shheeesh 

    The scum bags resume ……

    George Floyd’s Criminal Past

    • George Floyd moved to Minneapolis in 2014 after being released from prison in Houston, Texas following an arrest for aggravated robbery
    • On May 25, 2020, Floyd was arrested for passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a grocery store in Minneapolis
    • He was under the influence of fentanyl and methamphetamine at the time of arrest
    • Floyd has more than a decade-old criminal history at the time of the arrest and went to jail for atleast 5 times
    • George Floyd was the ringleader of a violent home invasion
    • He plead guilty to entering a woman’s home, pointing a gun at her stomach and searching the home for drugs and money, according to court records
    • Floyd was sentenced to 10 months in state jail for possession of cocaine in a December 2005 arrest
    • He had previously been sentenced to eight months for the same offense, stemming from an October 2002 arrest
    • Floyd was arrested in 2002 for criminal trespassing and served 30 days in jail
    • He had another stint for a theft in August 1998
    Blastcat
  • Can I add a united state that has not yet been observed in the process of tobacco theft. When someone takes a tobacco product they are not just taking something from a store owner because of the taxation they are taking services away from people who may really need those services as well.
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: You dunno

    excon said:
    Blastcat said:

    Therefore, Dee's insistence of Floyd's character is not only out of line, but it is itself reprehensible, and appears to be an endorsement of racism.
    Hello B:

    I dunno..  According to you we can't call ANYBODY a bad guy lest we jostle the stick that's up your backside.

    Du-de!

    excon


    I didn't say that you can't call ANYBODY a bad guy lest you jostle the stick that's up my backside. If you are actually saying that appealing to a higher more elevated level of debate is somehow having a stick up my backside, I say it's a that it's a mighty fine stick that I'm proud of.

    I will waggle it.

    However, I will not use any stick against a human being, let alone one who has been singled out because of his racial profile, humiliated in public, tortured in public and murdered in public for all to see. I will not use a stick against people in here who use insults. I will try to reason.. to use my words and NOT attack their character by calling them childish names as if I were an unruly child or a drunken adult.

    If you are saying that it's wrong, maybe you desire the lowest level of discourse possible. Using insults is not an honest part of an elevated conversation, the behavior lowers the level to the very bottom. I don't know about you, but i don't really enjoy gutter talk.

    Many people do.

    But in an honourable debate, to use insults is a distraction at best, and dishonourable at worst. We should not talk about a person's character when we are debating something else for starters. Floyd's character is off topic. It's irrelevant, and when people on the guy they are adding to the problem of hate, bigotry and racism and not at all trying to solve the problems.

    Ad hominems are informal logical fallacies that are used to DISTRACT us from the real issues. In this thread, we are debating the purpose of Floyd's monument. What's it about and so on. The monument isn't really honouring the man, but what HAPPENED to the man. It's a reminder of what hate can cause. It's a reminder of racism in America. It's a reminder that black lives do matter. It's a reminder that in too many cases, people who are NOT white are treated as if their lives DON'T matter. It's a reminder to all police persons of what NOT to do. It's a reminder that what Chauvin did was a disgrace to all the police in the world who take an oath to serve and protect.

    All too may people are happy to make completely nasty, irrelevant comments in here.

    I try to explain why that degrades the quality of our conversations. I will respond to those who seem serious enough to not stoop so low as to use bully rhetoric .. I will respond to people who aren't here to be abusive and spread hate. There aren't a lot of people who don't.

    I promote compassion and critical thinking.
    I hope that some of the members in here will join me.



    Dee
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    Blastcat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    excon said:

    Hello May:

    Yet, they BOTH move the needle in pursuit of a perfect union.

    excon
    I strongly disagree.

    First, George Floyd did not move anything other than the officer's arm; the reaction to the event did, and George was not responsible for it in any way, as, again, he did not take an intentional action that would contribute to it. That contrasts with Rosa Parks' explicit and intentional protest.
    One person spent his entire life looking for a chest of gold in the Caribbean region and finally found it. Another was walking in a jungle and randomly stumbled upon a chest of gold. Both got the same outcome, but the former clearly has caused his wealth to appear by systematically pursuing it, while the latter just happened to be in the right place at the right time - for the wrong reasons.

    Second, reaction to Rosa's actions was reasonable: her was an anti-racist protest, and she became a victim of explicit, actual systemic and legal racism. 
    Public reaction to Floyd's story was, on the other hand, completely unrelated to what was actually happening, and, instead of talking about police brutality, they started talking about "systemic racism" and "white privilege", things that at this point are more of a caricature than anything. The public reaction to Floyd's death likely worsened the state of the union, leading to mass protests across the country involving excessive damage of property and violence, and even militant occupation of some regions. What was improved? Nothing that I can see.

    A year after Rosa Parks' arrest the country was in a better state than a year before. A year after Floyd's arrest the country was in a worse state than a year before. This is how it seems to me.
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: The use of irony can backfire when one wants to make an important point.

    Swolliw said:
    @CYDdharta
    What else would it be for, poorly resisting arrest?

    Well, this may be a little off-field but my hunch, and bare in mind, only a hunch, is that the statue may and, may, just may, mind you, have something remotely to do with symbolizing the oppression, prejudice and brutality metered out to minority groups by the establishment and to remind said establishment that there is a better way. 

    But, Geeziz, that is only a wild guess.


    I understand that you are being ironic. Most proficient English speakers would know that you aren't being serious. You are saying the OPPOSITE of what you mean, and you open yourself up to MASSIVE misunderstanding by your use of the style..Irony can be used as sarcasm, as a put down, as an insult, and cause people to be angry. Don't be surprised if they answer you in anger back. It may also be taken to be humorous, funny.. NOT serious. Don't be surprised if people don't take what you say seriously if you make a joke out of your reply.

    We all know that sarcasm is intended to demean someone, so there is that connotation in your reply. You want to appeal to the angels of our better nature, yet you treat your collocutor with little respect. I would say that your style is very off putting and won't be as effective as if you just plainly stated your case in a less aggressive looking way. Your tone is also arrogant, treating your opponent as if they are . We get that. It's oozing arrogance and aggression.

    You don't need to use sarcasm if your point is a good one. But the way you framed your good ideas sucks turds. I'm not sure if we can have an adult, honest conversation.. your history is full of ad homs .. so I do not expect to have a good relationship with you, and therefore, no useful conversation.

    I hope to be wrong about that.
    Lets see how you respond.
    Dee
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @Blastcat

    The man Blastat wants worshipped , wonder how you would feel if it was his wife that low life Floyd and his homies assaulted in front of his kids ? 

    Not once has Blastat offered any sympathy to to the victims of this low life the total opposite in fact as he says anyone who mentions his appalling list of previous convictions is personally attacking the saints character ……..WOW ! 



    The great Rosa Parks ……


    Blastcat
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: Doubling down

    glitch.. please ignore
    Dee
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: Doubling down is a complete waste of everyone's time

    Dee said:
    The man Blastat wants worshipped , wonder how you would feel if it was his wife that low life Floyd and his homies assaulted in front of his kids ?

    When an argument is presented showing that one has used a logical fallacy, some people simply keep repeating the fallacy instead of trying to fix it. This is not only completely redundant does not help make a case, but constitutes a waste of everyone's time.

    The monument is not honouring Floyd's terrible track record with the law. The monument and the memory of George Floyd honours all the coloured people who were treated unfairly by the police who have vowed to serve and protect each and everyone of us, including people of colour. We are honouring all the coloured people who have suffered under white racism, including all of the slaves. It should remind us that black lives matter, even if a person isn't perfect.

    To say that I don't care about crimes is ridiculous, of course I don't want anyone to cause people to suffer, so what Floyd did in some cases was very wrong. He should never have hurt anyone or stole anything or taking any illegal drugs.

    And his legal trouble has nothing to do with what the monument represents.

    That some people will insult Floyd's memory is exactly why we need this kind of monument to remind us about racism, and that even black lives matter.

    Dee also makes a huge matter about comparing Rosa with George as if that mattered. Again, that comparison is completely irrelevant. We all know why the monument is important.

    Some people hate the fact that black lives matter.
    Not just some black lives, not just the lives that some people approve of, but all black lives.

    Some people will not try to argue their case, but simply repeat their conclusions over and over and get abusive when people don't agree.

    What a complete waste of everyone's time.
    Dee
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