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Was Joseph K guilty in the book "the trial" by Franz Kafka?

Debate Information

Anybody is welcome to involve themselves in this discussion, but I would highly suggest you read the book so you have an understanding of the concepts involved. Kafkas' books were surrealist literature. They are not written in a typical form, or even have any apparent conclusion. His writing has been described as absurdism and even nightmarish (although I believe his dark sense of humor is lost on most readers, it is still very present, and very funny when you realize it). His books are sometimes considered confusing and inaccessible, but it is often pointed out that you will only come to those conclusions of his works if you are expecting any traditional story with a meaningful message and conclusion. Kafka wrote books that must be thought about in depth to come to any meaningful conclusion, and that conclusion is often an interpretative conclusion. 

Kafkas' books were written in the early 1900s up to the mid 1920s. Many people consider Kafka to be the first of the "cinematic" writers and all cinematic writers use his style as a template. Kafkas' style of writing is called 'Kafkaesque', but most people now consider that term to be excruciatingly clique and Kafkas presence in modern cinematic writing is highly overexaggerated. George Orwell (1984/animal farm) was known to have been greatly inspired by Kafka, and he would agree with the argument I will possible be making here (if anyone decides to actually be involved here).             

The trial is the story of a law abiding man named Joseph K. who is woken one day by court officials he's never met, from a court he never heard of, (it's never actually revealed what kind of court it truly is and what motives it has, but it's not any kind of customary legal court, and the charges are never actually revealed) and he's been charged with "crimes" that he is never told what they are. Joseph spends the entire rest of the book trying to prove his innocence, only to be found guilty and killed for these crimes that he was never actually told were. 

In spite of the harsh and seemingly inhumane circumstances that this mysterious court has bestowed on Joseph K, I propose he was indeed guilty of the crimes the court charged him with. I will use circumstances from the book to make my case. I encourage everybody to read "the trial", and any or all of Franz Kafkas' works and find out why he's now an indisputable literary Icon!!!       



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  • DeeDee 4487 Pts   -  
    I tried reading Kafka as a student and gave up in despair , I felt the same way about Proust and James Joyce.

    I’m glad you seem to have found the effort enjoyable ,it all subjective really

    I still remember trying to trudge through Joyce’s ulysses and after a hopeless effort tossing the book forcefully across the room …..people have told me they read it several times and enjoyed it 
    piloteer
  • piloteerpiloteer 1442 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    I'm sorry Kafka caused you that kind of frustration. His works can be confusing, but like I said, if you do not expect any kind of customary storyline with a meaningful conclusion, then it may become a very interesting literary art piece.    
    Dee
  • piloteerpiloteer 1442 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Although anybody is welcome to involve themselves in this discussion, I personally feel that if you haven't read the book, the least you could do is suggest some books you believe we should all read. I'm caught in one of those positions where I can't for the life of me decide what kind of book I really want to read next. Perhaps if you suggest a book, and we all read it, we could all discuss it. It makes me sad to see how unpopular literature is on this site. Or even greater society :s .  I guess the real reason for this discussion is to get some suggestions for interesting books. Have you read any Truman Capote? He's also one of my favorite artsy writers, and his real life story is equally as interesting as his books. If you've read "in cold blood", I can be all over that $hit also. Dostoyevsky and any of the transcendentalists are also really great books.  
  • DeeDee 4487 Pts   -  
    @piloteer

    I'm sorry Kafka caused you that kind of frustration. His works can be confusing, but like I said, if you do not expect any kind of customary storyline with a meaningful conclusion, then it may become a very interesting literary art piece.    


    It’s like musical taste isn’t it purely subjective. If a book doesn’t grab me straight away I do not persist , I’m the same with music.

    I find any type of Art that needs to explained is pretentious and open to varied interpretations 
  • DeeDee 4487 Pts   -  
    @piloteer




    Although anybody is welcome to involve themselves in this discussion, I personally feel that if you haven't read the book, the least you could do is suggest some books you believe we should all read. I'm caught in one of those positions where I can't for the life of me decide what kind of book I really want to read next. Perhaps if you suggest a book, and we all read it, we could all discuss it. It makes me sad to see how unpopular literature is on this site. Or even greater society s .  I guess the real reason for this discussion is to get some suggestions for interesting books. Have you read any Truman Capote? He's also one of my favorite artsy writers, and his real life story is equally as interesting as his books. If you've read "in cold blood", I can be all over that $hit also. Dostoyevsky and any of the transcendentalists are also really great books


    I suggest you read the book below it’s my favorite book of all time it’s got it all in spades drama , action , tension , tragedy and   humour , it’s a great story and a great read 

    I love reading and read most days of the week and have always done so everyone I know  over here reads. 

    I’ve just finished A.C Graylings Ideas that matter a very good read and about to start Presumed innocent by Scott Turow.

    Yes I’ve read Capotes “In cold blood “ and I agree a fine author. I was brought up on Tolstoy , Chekov , Dostoyevsky , my favorite  book by a Russian author  being The brothers Karamazov by Dostoyevsky 



    The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists 
    TheRaggedTrouseredPhilanthropistsjpg
    7th reprint
    AuthorRobert Tressell
    CountryEngland
    GenreSemi-autobiographical novel
    PublisherGrant Richards Ltd.
    Publication date
    23 April 1914
    Media typePrint (hardback and paperback)
    Pages391 (first edition)
    OCLC7571041
    TextThe Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists at Wikisource

    The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists (1914) is a semi-autobiographical novel by the Irish house painter and sign writer Robert Noonan, who wrote the book in his spare time under the pen name Robert Tressell. Published after Tressell's death from tuberculosis in the Liverpool Royal Infirmary in 1911, the novel follows a house painter's efforts to find work in the fictional English town of Mugsborough (based on the coastal town of Hastings) to stave off the workhouse for himself, his wife and his son. The original title page, drawn by Tressell, carried the subtitle: "Being the story of twelve months in Hell, told by one of the damned, and written down by Robert Tressell."[1]

    Grant Richards Ltd. published about two-thirds of the manuscript in April 1914 after Tressell's daughter, Kathleen Noonan, showed her father's work to her employers. The 1914 edition not only omitted material but also moved text around and gave the novel a depressing ending. Tressell's original manuscript was first published in 1955 by Lawrence and Wishart.[1]

    An explicitly political work, the novel is widely regarded as a classic of working-class literature.[2] As of 2003, it had sold over one million copies.[3] George Orwell described it as "a book that everyone should read".[4]

  • piloteerpiloteer 1442 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    I've only read "notes from the underground" and "crime and punishment" from Dostoyevsky. I do hope to one day delve further into his work. You must be familiar with Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn if you like the Russian literature. "Gulag archipelago" was shocking. And what made it worse was how matter of factly it was portrayed. It's like Solzhenitsyn was saying, 'in America, when your government considers you a spy, you call it government conspiracy. In Russia, when our government considers us a foreign spy, we call it just regular normal Tuesday. 

    Capote could be sweet and charming and write books that make you feel warm inside. That is precisely why his other dark and shocking books were so much darker. It's vomit inducing reading "in cold blood" and suddenly remembering that this was the guy who wrote "breakfast at tiffany's". It was an insanely popular book, but most other prominent writers of that time hated it. Capote didn't invent new journalism, but he was the first writer to use that style of investigation and journalism on such a shocking headline story. 

    Thank you for the book suggestion by the way.           
  • DeeDee 4487 Pts   -   edited November 23
    @piloteer

    Dostoyevsky is wonderful I listened to a lot of his work on Librivox a free app with all the classics for free on audio

    Yes I read most of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyns works also many years ago another find writer , and Capote indeed broke new ground which lead to that type of book becoming immensely popular which was no bad thing 

    Try the suggestion it’s a great story and an easy read. I don’t know if you’ve read all the classics most people do not know what they are missing books like Kings Solomons mines by H.Rider. Haggard is wonderful ( forget the movie ) or The count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas or indeed The four feathers by A.E.W Mason ….I still remember as a boy the thrill of reading these page turning adventure books , I re-read them all last year and those old style writers certainly knew how to fill a book with marvelous adventures of far off places beautifully written 






    piloteer
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