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Are we going to stop smoking

Debate Information

I saw on the TV that in New Zealand they are going to stop selling cigarettes to 14 year old kids then each year they will increase the age by one year until nobody is allowed to buy cigarettes.
Is this a good thing or are all the kids going to do vaping and stink the place out with all that cinnamon and herbs>
Dreamer



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  • DreamerDreamer 61 Pts   -   edited January 24
    Argument Topic: Yes, we should no longer be callous towards smokers and allow Big Tobacco to hurt them.


    We have to try. New Zealand's plan may or may not work. Either way we will have more data to work with. Big Tobacco kills over eight million worldwide annually. We can no longer be indifferent.


    Tobacco companies make the cigarettes as addictive as possible, make huge profits, launch disinformation campaigns, and then blame the victim under the guise of individual responsibility and freedom.




  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -  
    Is this a good thing 

    Taking away a person's freedom is never a good thing. 

    just_sayin
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 805 Pts   -  
    @Dreamer
    Big Tobacco kills over eight million worldwide annually.

    Lack of food kills 9 million annually, so maybe you should focus more effort on feeding people and less on taking away their only pleasure in life.

    Dreamer
  • jackjack 135 Pts   -  
    Barnardot said:

    Is this a good thing or are all the kids going to do vaping and stink the place out with all that cinnamon and herbs>
    Hello B:

    Of course, it's a good thing..  But, that's not the way to do it.. 

    In the last 50 years, the world cut our smoking rate by 50%, and we did that by talking..  That's probably a couple billion saved lives.  We just need to do more of that..

    Besides, making it illegal isn't gonna stop someone if he wants to smoke. It's just gonna make the dealers rich.

    excon


  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4891 Pts   -  
    I fail to see what business the government can possibly have in how healthy the residents want to be. If someone wants to drink or smoke themselves to death, it is no one's business by them.

    It is unfortunate that in the modern world the government is largely seen as a vessel through which the collective imposes its general values onto the individual, rather than the protector of individual rights. Every proposed law is analyzed based on how it will "benefit the society" (whatever in the world it means) and not based on how well it aligns with the spirit of the Constitution. If a law reduces the number of cigarettes the average New-Zealander smokes per day, then that is a good law, and all the unintended consequences of said law are to be dismissed as irrelevant.

    I am not interested in living in a smoke-free society. I am interested in living in a free society and enjoying the diversity of lifestyles people around me choose. The sterile society all these social engineers dream of to me is a horrible dystopia. Singapore on steroids. Enjoy living for 100 years and having no worries in life, as long as you obey by 36642578 crazy laws - and if you violate one of them, then be eaten alive by the morality police.
    DreamerSonofason
  • DreamerDreamer 61 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Informative and irrelevant.


    I didn't know that starvation killed so many, thank you for the information. Yet, this is a fallacy of relative privation. Tobacco being their only pleasure in life is a pants on fire lie. Exercise releases beta endorphins.
  • DreamerDreamer 61 Pts   -   edited January 25
    Argument Topic: Medicaid and medicare costs means tax payers end up paying.


    Let's say no second hand smoke existed. There would still be the huge economic burden of first-hand smoke. The connection between health and wealth.

    A person smokes gets lung cancer and their health declines and then they can't work. That person goes on public assistance and the tax payers pay what Big Tobacco should be paying. In this way tobacco companies get private profit and socialized costs.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1507 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature
    Taking away a person's freedom is never a good thing. 

    It is however a good thing if that particular freedom of that person infringes upon the freedoms of most other persons such as inflicting passive smoking on others, making sickening ash tray smells, littering the streets with butts, overloading the health system and costing industry through absenteeism, under-performing and cigarette breaks.

  • SwolliwSwolliw 1507 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature
    Lack of food kills 9 million annually, so maybe you should focus more effort on feeding people and less on taking away their only pleasure in life.

    Have you ever thought of doing both as a trade-off? If you focus more on both feeding them and depriving them of ciggies then surely you are replacing a bad pleasure with a good pleasure. Sounds reasonable to me.

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4891 Pts   -  
    Dreamer said:

    Let's say no second hand smoke existed. There would still be the huge economic burden of first-hand smoke. The connection between health and wealth.

    A person smokes gets lung cancer and their health declines and then they can't work. That person goes on public assistance and the tax payers pay what Big Tobacco should be paying. In this way tobacco companies get private profit and socialized costs.
    First, the dangers of the second-hand smoke are minuscule, if at all existent. There is no credible research supporting the old claims that it is nearly as dangerous as smoking itself. Second, any private organization is free to (and most do) impose anti-smoking rules on those visiting its properties: if you do not want to be exposed to second-hand smoke, you are free to do so by your own volition, without violating anyone else's rights.

    What a person does to themselves and what health repercussions they have to deal with as a consequence is no one else's business. "Public assistance" is a problem in itself and needs to be abolished: let people make their own choices and deal with the consequences of them.

    Instead, you folks advocate for all kinds of social welfare programs, and then want to restrict people's rights in order to make those programs sustainable. It is like buying a gun, shooting oneself in the foot and then suing the gun seller for damages. You chose to design the rules of the game this way - now enjoy what you have created and do not complain when others find a way to exploit the rules for their own gain. Do not like it - come up with better rules, do not blame the players who play by the rules of your own creation.
  • SonofasonSonofason 428 Pts   -  
    Barnardot said:
    I saw on the TV that in New Zealand they are going to stop selling cigarettes to 14 year old kids then each year they will increase the age by one year until nobody is allowed to buy cigarettes.
    Is this a good thing or are all the kids going to do vaping and stink the place out with all that cinnamon and herbs>
    Only death is going to stop me from smoking.  And that will happen sooner or later.  If it's sooner...I don't care.  You want to take away my insurance benefits because I smoke...I don't care.  I will do what I want to do, and no one...not anyone will ever stop me.
    jack
  • SonofasonSonofason 428 Pts   -   edited January 27
    Swolliw said:
    @Nomenclature
    Taking away a person's freedom is never a good thing. 

    It is however a good thing if that particular freedom of that person infringes upon the freedoms of most other persons such as inflicting passive smoking on others, making sickening ash tray smells, littering the streets with butts, overloading the health system and costing industry through absenteeism, under-performing and cigarette breaks.

    Are you going to make all products and packaging illegal?  Because I see coffee cups, soda bottles and numerous other items littering every roadway in the nation.
    Are you going to make cookies and chocolate illegal?  Because I see fat people as being a burden on the healthcare system.  I know a lot of old smokers...but I don't know any old fat people.  Maybe fat people are the greater burden here.  You want to tell us what we are allowed to eat?
    Fat people under-perform in many industries.  Just walking from one spot to another takes them twice as long as a fit and healthy person.  It goes without saying, fat is never fit.

    And no employer is obliged to give a smoker extra breaks to smoke their cigarettes.
  • BarnardotBarnardot 272 Pts   -   edited January 27
    @Sonofason ;I will do what I want to do, and no one...not anyone will ever stop me.

    Well you might want to do what you want but when people say that sort of baloney there just trying to be tough and show off to other people. It rings alarms to me because when I hear that that tells me your going to do what you want to do at the exspents of other people like breathing your smoke at other people and throwing your buts every where and then your coghing up your snot all the time and spreading diseases like covid and then your in and out of hospitals and taking days off work and all that costs every body else and your work buddies have to work harder when your away sick and every time you have a smoke break. So when you analize it in the end you cant do what you like unless you go live in a cave.

  • SonofasonSonofason 428 Pts   -  
    The fact is, smokers are usually far more productive workers than non-smokers.  It is actually advantageous for an employer to grant a smoker extra breaks, because they will get more done in a day than any non-smoker could.  But now, fat-smokers are a different story.  They are never productive.
  • SonofasonSonofason 428 Pts   -   edited January 28
    Barnardot said:
    @Sonofason ;I will do what I want to do, and no one...not anyone will ever stop me.

    Well you might want to do what you want but when people say that sort of baloney there just trying to be tough and show off to other people. It rings alarms to me because when I hear that that tells me your going to do what you want to do at the exspents of other people like breathing your smoke at other people and throwing your buts every where and then your coghing up your snot all the time and spreading diseases like covid and then your in and out of hospitals and taking days off work and all that costs every body else and your work buddies have to work harder when your away sick and every time you have a smoke break. So when you analize it in the end you cant do what you like unless you go live in a cave.

    I have been smoking for 40 years.  I have never missed a day of work on account of my smoking.  Nor have I missed more than two days in a year do to any kind of sickness.  I have missed many days over that 40 years because my non-smoking wife is far less fit and far less healthy than I.  So clearly your assessment is false.
  • SonofasonSonofason 428 Pts   -   edited January 28
    Freedom is worth dying for.  It is certainly worth fighting for...even if the cost is your freedom.
  • BarnardotBarnardot 272 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;ar less fit and far less healthy than I.  So clearly your assessment is false.

    Just because you smoke and don’t take days off work does that meen that every one who smoke s doesn’t take days off work and I read the statistics of people who take days off work because of smoke related illnesses and there are more people in the world than you and your wife when I last checked so your assessment of 2 people being all of the world is clearly false and totally dum

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4891 Pts   -  
    @Barnardot

    There are also people who take days off work so they can have more passionate sex with their lovers. Perhaps it is time to stop having sex? To outlaw it? Let us enact the same plan as the government of New Zealand allegedly is planning to and raise age of consent each year, say, by 6 months. How does that sound?
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