How or why did you become an Atheist?

MayCaesar

I never really became an atheist, I just never had a reason to unbecome one. When I was 4 or so, I figured that the Santa stories were made up and were used by adults to entertain kids - and when I first heard about god a couple of years later, I immediately put it conceptually next to Santa and never had a reason to look back.

It was a huge surprise to me when I grew up and realized that there were adults believing in Santa... I mean, in god. Even bigger surprise that I learned that the vast majority of humans believe in some kind of deity or spirits. I am still surprised. Religion absolutely does not enter my life in any way, and none of my close friends and relatives are religious, so when I do hear something about religion, it is like I am on a different planet, reading about something happening far-far away.

Religion is a truly bizarre phenomenon. It should not exist in the 21st century, yet it does. It should be dismantled logically by any 4 year old kid after a couple of minutes of thinking, yet educated adults write large books in support of it. It should be less popular than the Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter, yet it is far more popular.
It is one of those things that make me think that I am an AI in a human body. This type of thinking is just that much alien to me.

Swolliw

@NotReally
So, after having answered the questionnaire, will it be used for marketing purposes and do I go into a draw to win a trip for two to La La Land?  And did you successfully complete the captcha to prove that you are not a bot?

NotReally

@MayCaesar
Man, you sound really smart! Although you and I don't agree about such an existence, you have my respect ! Although again it depends on what kind of community you grew up in. Mine was constantly going to church and frequent prayers. It kinda took a long time for me to pull out of the traditions and customs.

NotReally

@Swolliw

Swolliw said:

@NotReally
So, after having answered the questionnaire, will it be used for marketing purposes and do I go into a draw to win a trip for two to La La Land?

--Eh no. I don't get why you are so upset tho. And I made this questionnaire because I wanted to know about the lives of Atheists. Just me trying to be understanding, which could be percieved as being nosy, but that is not my intention--

And did you successfully complete the captcha to prove that you are not a bot?

--Why would I want to do that, it feels insulting, y'know? ;-; --

SkepticalOne

@NotReally

Why did you become an Atheist? What caused the change in opinion?

The realization I did not (and never did) have sufficient reason to believe. A disagreement where I felt strongly the wrong decisions were being made for the future of the church was the final straw. If we were all listening to the will of God (as we all thought we were), we should have agreed.  

When you were planning on changing, how did you feel?

There was no planning - it was just suddenly true. It was like finding out Santa wasn't real. I felt betrayed most of all. 

After being an Atheist, what was your experience like?

Realizing I was a religious minority (I live in Texas) gave me new perspective on religious influences on our legislation, politics, education, challenges to science, etc.

Did your view of Theism get worse than imagined after the change?

No. I had not imagined theism in a negative light. My view of theism did get worse though. 

From what religion did you change?

Christianity. I started out Southern Baptist shifted to non denominational and was Episcopalian when my deconstruction began.

Or were you born in an Atheist family?

Nope. My father was a preacher. Going to church was not optional.

What part of your religion made you cringe/scoff/disappoint the most?

I was not unhappy with my religion. It was after I moved outside the religious bubble that I started seeing a more complete picture. The ever-present dogmatism certainly made me cringe though. 

More than a decade before my deconversion, I remember finding one of my co-workers was an atheist. I could not process how someone could not believe in a god. Absolute (and unreasonable) certainty prevented me from considering my position might be open to criticism or that it could not withstand the critique. 

OakTownA

NotReally said:

Why did you become an Atheist? What caused the change in opinion?When did your opinion change?

I became an atheist when I realized my view of the Divine was no different that a universe without any deities. I started thinking about what I believed, and why. I realized there were no reasons I believed what I believed,other than I liked it. This occurred about 10 years ago.

When you were planning on changing, how did you feel?

There was no plan. I just changed.

After being an Atheist, what was your experience like?

No different than before I was atheist, except that I wanted to find a new job, as I was working at a religious supply store.

Did your view of Theism get worse than imagined after the change?

Nope.

From what religion did you change?

Eclectic Paganism

Or were you born in an Atheist family?

Nope; my family is vaguely Christian, and we went to church off and on.

What part of your religion made you cringe/scoff/disappoint the most?

Any for of faith healing. Herbs and Reki are not going to cure your cancer.

Or do you think I am being ridiculously nosy about your personal life?

As long as you are asking questions in good faith, you can obtain interesting answers by asking questions.

Swolliw

@NotReally

Eh no. I don't get why you are so upset tho.

I'm not upset but it is pretty clear that if I were we know the reason why you don't get it.

Hey, I'm only giving friendly advice about the fact that you submitted a poorly constructed thread and sure, it feels insulting I know but I can guarantee that you will get over it....you won't wake up tomorrow covered in life-threatening lesions.

Just stick around and you will get some really good insights as to what constitutes a good thread...I'm about to post a few curdlers so you will need to take note from a pro.

Anyways, to address your "eloquently worded" questionnaire, I, probably like you am not the sort of person who takes things at face value and began to question the rubbish that those numb-skulled, lying preachers were trying to shove down our throats. That leads to asking questions and the more questions you openly ask about religion (and research), the more true answers you get. It is absolutely appalling that religion has got away with pushing so much crap onto people for so long.

NotReally

@Swolliw
You too? I have responded to a lot of your threads, and from that, I inferred you as of the friendly type, but I guess not. I mean, come on! The others have answered so beautifully! I loved how they answered so perfectly and I was genuinely interested. All you say is how much you hate them, that is all. You blame my question to be bad and weird, what about your answer?
And you call yourself a pro. Sure, it is your opinion, but you are a bit arrogant too. And I cannot judge you just directly, you might have had a horrible experience with Theists, sure. I too sometimes have that. I just wanted to know about the life of an Atheist, because I have never met one before.

Dee

 I was at one stage a devout Roman Catholic or as we used to call ourselves the one true church , I was educated by the Jesuit’s the intellectual branch of the church and received a through eduction especially in the Bible which we were taught in Latin.

The reason I’m an atheist is because even as a young man I started to question the Bible and never got satisfactory answers to my questions. The Bible is a contradictory book  and a pretty immoral book by any standards  I also witnessed and still do that most believers invent a depiction in their own minds of what a god is , Americans actually believe Jesus would support gun rights , deny people universal health care, minimun wages or social housing …..if Jesus walked the earth again he would be ashamed of people that proclaim to follow him 

I’ve met a handful of people I would call decent Christian’s in my life , my father was a deeply kind gentleman who gave to several charities his whole life , he insisted we take a poor person with no family in over Christmas and always gave them a new coat , shoes and some money when they left , also we only found out when he died that he worked with the poor and needy 2 nights a week unknown to us ……this is what true charity is not the millionaires who brag and boast about donations so as to get a big far pat on the back 

Just look at the so called Christian’s on this site most spew absolute hate and bile yet call themselves Christian’s , their is one guy on here I would call a truly decent Christian who it’s always a pleasure to debate that’s JustinC we have different views but never a bad word between us as he totally understands my position as I do his as he admits his is purely personal and faith based 

Not one Christian has one shred of evidence for a god that cannot be seen , heard or touched that’s a fact and if they had they would never stop crowing about it , the best argument ( you included ) is “there is a god cause I say so “ , the answer to everything a believer cannot explain is ………..

Goddidit

Not to be confused with an act of God.

“”A theory which introduces miracles on an ad hoc basis every time it runs into trouble would certainly be inferior.

—Russell Humphreys, YEC, pissing on his own feet[3]

Goddidit is one of the masterstrokes and trump-cards that creationists and other biblical literalists have at their disposal when debating points with naturalists and rationalists.[4][note 1] It proposes that anything is and was possible because of the omnipotence of God — specifically the ability to bend the laws of time, logic and physics. This means that arguments that focus on the feasibility of a global flood, for instance — complicated analyses of how much water would be required, if food could be provided for Noah's animals and the construction of his ark — can be swept away and ignored.

The concept of 'God did it' can be used to create unfalsifiable theories. A creationist need never doubt creation because God could have made anything. It may also be used as a euphemism to indicate something that cannot yet be explained by natural laws, most likely due to lack of information or knowledge.

Despite the convenience of the Goddidit explanation, entire reams of literature have been written by creationists to avoid it, attempting to present a scientific-sounding narrative instead, with Goddidit called in to whitewash over the flaws.

• There are a few small gaps in most fossil records linking one species to another. Goddidit!
• No one knows what is the (if there is any) carrier force of gravity. Goddidit!
• Love is a strong and mysterious emotion. Goddidit!
• The universe appears rather fine-tuned for life on earth. Goddidit!
• We cannot explain how memory works. Goddidit!
• This chicken mayonnaise sandwich is delicious. Goddidit!
• There is no way God did it. Goddidit!

xlJ_dolphin_473

@NotReally

Why did you become an Atheist?

For most of my life, I was an "ignostic": I hadn't formed an opinion about god, nor did I have any real reason to care. But after I saw the impacts of religion throughout history, I decided to give the matter some serious thought. I remained an agnostic for quite some time, until I noticed some logical contradictions in the God Hypothesis. This, combined with the fact that proof drives belief, and I didn't see any proof for the existence of god, I arrived at the de facto atheist stance I have today: I cannot be sure that god does not exist, but there is no evidence to suggest that he does, and so I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.

When did your opinion change?

The first time I seriously thought about the existence of God was several years ago, when I was studying history. As I already explained, when I saw that religion played a major role in throughout history, and continues to do so today, I thought it was worth giving religion some consideration.

When you were planning on changing, how did you feel?

I didn't really plan on changing at all. I never decided "right, today's the day I become an atheist". It happened over a while, when I became more atheist compared to agnostic, as I noticed more and more logical flaws in the God hypothesis. I also learnt more about psychology, which explains the 'herd mentality' effect present in most modern religions.

After being an Atheist, what was your experience like?

Not really much different to when I was an agnostic, or an ignostic before that. Religion never affected my life before, and it doesn't affect my life now.

Did your view of Theism get worse than imagined after the change?

No. I accept that religion has had some positives for society, and some negatives, but that didn't change my view of it when I assessed its logical coherence.

From what religion did you change? Or were you born in an Atheist family?

My family on my mother's side is mostly Christian - followers of the Anglican Church. However, my mother didn't partake in the religion that much as a child, nor does she take part much nowadays. My father was also an ignostic, and when I recently asked him about it, he confessed that he had never given the matter much thought at all.

NotReally said:

Or do you think I am being ridiculously nosy about your personal life?

Perhaps. But, then again, this is a debate site, and asking questions is a vital part of the process.

NotReally

@Dee
I am really sorry to hear about your father, he seems like a true gentleman.
  And about our argument? I stopped it on purpose because I didn't like your style of debating. But you know what? I am ready to give it a second chance. Debate again? Not here though.

@Dee

Dee

@NotReally

I am really sorry to hear about your father, he seems like a true gentleman.


Thanks a lot my friend 

  And about our argument? I stopped it on purpose because I didn't like your style of debating.

To be honest I gave up on that debate because you refused to actually address what I said and then accused me of being angry which I wasn’t , I don’t debate people that misrepresent what I’m saying 

But you know what? I am ready to give it a second chance. Debate again? Not here though.

To be fair to you I cannot keep reiterating the one point it’s futile , my point remains, I have said nothing about origins or how we got here my honest answer was I don’t know ,I have told you several times I have absolutely no burden of proof as claims I’ve made are  none this is basic logic and I think you know this right? 

The burden of proof is firmly on the ones  shoulders who is making the affirmative claim that’s you and you cannot prove your claim as you’re saying you have proof of a god which if you had you would get a Nobel prize  for , all you have is your opinion which is fine for you but you cannot force your opinion on others unless you can back it up with proofs which meet the required standards for such , Godidit is not good enough 

NotReally

@Dee

Dee said:

@NotReally

I am really sorry to hear about your father, he seems like a true gentleman.


Thanks a lot my friend 

  And about our argument? I stopped it on purpose because I didn't like your style of debating.

To be honest I gave up on that debate because you refused to actually address what I said and then accused me of being angry which I wasn’t , I don’t debate people that misrepresent what I’m saying 

But you know what? I am ready to give it a second chance. Debate again? Not here though.

To be fair to you I cannot keep reiterating the one point it’s futile , my point remains, I have said nothing about origins or how we got here my honest answer was I don’t know ,I have told you several times I have absolutely no burden of proof as claims I’ve made are  none this is basic logic and I think you know this right? 

The burden of proof is firmly on the ones  shoulders who is making the affirmative claim that’s you and you cannot prove your claim as you’re saying you have proof of a god which if you had you would get a Nobel prize  for , all you have is your opinion which is fine for you but you cannot force your opinion on others unless you can back it up with proofs which meet the required standards for such , Godidit is not good enough 

--This is the problem mate. If you start from the middle, it turns into war. If you restart a debate, you get a second view, a more calm view, or a more agressive view, but it is your choice.--

Dee

@NotReally

--This is the problem mate. If you start from the middle, it turns into war. If you restart a debate, you get a second view, a more calm view, or a more agressive view, but it is your choice.--

I don’t do wars , I don’t want a “restart “ that is my choice. No offence but you totally ignored what I said and have now  said possibly 20 odd times now regards burden of proof ,so again when you or another believer demonstrate that an actual god exists all you’re doing is preaching and attempting to bully people into agreeing with you , can you not see this? 

MayCaesar

NotReally said:

@MayCaesar
Man, you sound really smart! Although you and I don't agree about such an existence, you have my respect ! Although again it depends on what kind of community you grew up in. Mine was constantly going to church and frequent prayers. It kinda took a long time for me to pull out of the traditions and customs.

I like to think of myself as a scatterbrain whose brain cells fire around chaotically, but sometimes randomly align just right, and I manage to think something coherent for a change. That is when I post.
This also makes me a really awkward real life conversationist, as there I cannot afford to have people wait for the alignment to happen and tend to say things that make me cringe inside.

The environment one grows up in definitely matters a lot. Growing up in an environment where no one talks about religion, there is very little chance that you will suddenly become religious - and, conversely, growing up in a community where everyone goes to Church on Sunday sets one up for a theistic worldview.
It is telling, however, that quite a few theists become atheist, but the reverse very rarely happens.

NotReally

@Dee

Uhh, not sure what you meant by that, but all I am saying is if you don't want it, it is ok. I am not forcing you to debate, I am asking if you wanted to start over, that's all. Since you don't want, it's ok, I will leave you alone.

NotReally

@MayCaesar
I almost became an Atheist before becoming a Deist. I went from Theist to Agnostic to Ignostic, almost to Atheist, before I found a conclusion and sat in the Deist position.

Dee

@NotReally

Uhh, you see that's the problem you still do not comprehend simple concepts like burden of proof ,if you did you would see you haven't met it by a stretch 

NotReally

@Dee
I thought, you didn't want to debate?

Dee

@NotReally

I thought, you didn't want to debate?


I’m not debating I’m addressing your incredibly poor comprehension skills as in  …. Uhh, not sure what you meant by that …….

You really do struggle with simple concepts 

NotReally

@Dee
Nah, Dee. I said that because you didn't want to listen to what explanation I had to offer then. This is not really the place for THIS topic, so are you willing to continue, or not? Yes or no. That is all I need.

Dee

@NotReally

Nah, Dee. I said that because you didn't want to listen to what explanation I had to offer then.

Nah , you still don’t comprehend do you ?  You offered your explanation , I listened and rejected it because it’s only your opinion backed by nothing but your opinion 


 This is not really the place for THIS topic, so are you willing to continue, or not? Yes or no. That is all I need.

You were utterly defeated before but you keep preaching why’s that?

You’re still not listening , you play the same game with everyone as in keep repeating your opinion on the matter still not realizing your opinion is not proof , you cannot meet the burden of proof no believer has come close 

If you wish to continue stalking and preaching do carry on somewhere else I’m not interested 

NotReally

@Dee

Dee said:

@NotReally

Nah, Dee. I said that because you didn't want to listen to what explanation I had to offer then.

Nah , you still don’t comprehend do you ?  You offered your explanation , I listened and rejected it because it’s only your opinion backed by nothing but your opinion 

--Exactly, I have new opinion.--


 This is not really the place for THIS topic, so are you willing to continue, or not? Yes or no. That is all I need.

You were utterly defeated before but you keep preaching why’s that?

--I was not defeated--

You’re still not listening , you play the same game with everyone as in keep repeating your opinion on the matter still not realizing your opinion is not proof , you cannot meet the burden of proof no believer has come close 

--And you don't HAVE an opinion--

If you wish to continue stalking and preaching do carry on somewhere else I’m not interested 

--I am taking that as a 'no'. That is all I needed. From the beginning. Yes or No. And since it is a no, I am leaving you alone on this matter, since we do not understand each other--

Swolliw

@NotReally

  All you say is how much you hate them, that is all.I have never done so....quote one example (let alone all that I have said)

No, I don't

You blame my question to be bad and weird

No I haven't

And you call yourself a pro.

No I don't

Sure, it is your opinion, but you are a bit arrogant too.

No I'm not.

I just wanted to know about the life of an Atheist, because I have never met one before.

That is a lie.

If you don't stop making malicious personal attacks based on utter fabrications and lies as well as patronizing other members I will make the necessary representations to have you removed from this site.

Dee

@NotReally ;

I don't care about your "new" opinion it's not a proof 
 
You were thrashed the last time because you had no proof 

I do not have to offer an "opinion "I'm making no claims that still you , seriously are you retarded ? 

Do you know what burden of proof even means?

Now quit the stalking or I'm asking for your removal for stalking 

Dee

@NotReally ;

I don't care about your "new" opinion it's not a proof 
 
You were thrashed the last time because you had no proof 

I do not have to offer an "opinion "I'm making no claims that still you , seriously are you retarded ? 

Do you know what burden of proof even means?

Now quit the stalking or I'm asking for your removal for stalking 

Dee

@NotReally ;

I don't care about your "new" opinion it's not a proof 
 
You were thrashed the last time because you had no proof 

I do not have to offer an "opinion "I'm making no claims that still you , seriously are you retarded ? 

Do you know what burden of proof even means?

Now quit the stalking or I'm asking for your removal for stalking 

Bogan

I became an atheist when I was 15 years old.    That is the usual time when young adults start developing a brain which is capable of critical thinking.

 Previously, I had accepted that God existed because adults have never stopped telling me that He existed.    But like all kids, sooner or later, you realise that adults do not agree over everything.    And some adults did not believe in God.     By 15 years of age, I started to doubt.

 Asking my science teacher about God simply brought on a wry smile and a slow shake of his head.    I suspected that he was forbidden to talk about some things.    Questioning my religious instructors (religion was compulsory when I was a kid) brought on either angry thundering denunciations of poor little Bogan by one particular "instructor", or patient explanations which explained nothing by another.

 Confused, I decided that I should read the Bible.    Straight away, I realised that it was obviously written by very ignorant people who did not have a clue.    And it was extremely boring.    God wrote a boring book.     I started at Genesis, and by the time I got to Deuteronomy, I knew it was all just superstitious c-r-a-p.

 One thing that really bothered me was the Christian claim that they believed in only one God.    But they believed in God the Father and God the son.    A father is an entity.  A son is an entity.   1+1 equals 2.    When somebody tells me that 1+1 equals 1, they have got a real problem getting me to believe anything they say.

 Then I thought about it on a philosophical level.    If God made everything, what the hell was he doing for 100 milion, billion, trillion, squillion, quadrillion, sextillion years before He decided to create everything?     The answer could only be nothing.   Because there was nothing to do.    He could not think, because there was nothing to think about.    Then one fine day he decided 'I'm gunna create everything!"     So he zoomed around Space, presumably at warp speed, grabbing large chunks of nothing and creating everything.

 As the Japs say, Bursheedo.

John_C_87

@Bogan
 One thing that really bothered me was the Christian claim that they believed in only one God.    But they believed in God the Father and God the son.    A father is an entity.  A son is an entity.   1+1 equals 2.    When somebody tells me that 1+1 equals 1, they have got a real problem getting me to believe anything they say.

"This never gets old for me." Do you believe Pi is a ratio of a circle's circumference? If so someone was smart enough to trick you into believing 1 + 1 = 1. The bad news is they didn't even have to pay the bribe they used to trick you with. Fraud was used to force others to people to pay the money they themselves had promised you. Hu? You wonder...

You are an atheist for no other reason than you do not recognize or understand how GOD is explained as something which is not religious. Wait! What? Though you believe yourself to be intelligent the word atheist does not mean a republic orbiting basic whole truths must hold you or any person unbelievable, on behalf of yourself, others, or even governing a government as an atheist. The Pledge of Allegiance, the Federal Reserve Note, the court's process of swearing-in can all be defended by what would have been just a Presdient of the United States Of America. Thanks to an axiom of GOD we can add Presadera to that list of people of the race who can account for creating others as equal.

Soak that in a tampon and place it up a rectum.
I could have said put that in your bong and prey on it. I didn't.

NotReally

Swolliw said:

@NotReally

  All you say is how much you hate them, that is all.I have never done so....quote one example (let alone all that I have said)

No, I don't

--Really? Is religion Hypochondria? Should Religion be restricted? Isn't it just like religion? And then bad words, sure. That is hate, mate. Even Debra agrees, but I don't care about it much.--

You blame my question to be bad and weird

No I haven't

--Seriously? You said and I quote:
"

So, after having answered the questionnaire, will it be used for marketing purposes and do I go into a draw to win a trip for two to La La Land?  And did you successfully complete the captcha to prove that you are not a bot?

"--

And you call yourself a pro.

No I don't

--You said and I quote: "

Just stick around and you will get some really good insights as to what constitutes a good thread...I'm about to post a few curdlers so you will need to take note from a pro.

"--

Sure, it is your opinion, but you are a bit arrogant too.

No I'm not.

--You are. You say you didn't do any of the above, yet I showed you that you have.--

I just wanted to know about the life of an Atheist, because I have never met one before.

That is a lie.

--I really haven't met an Atheist in real life, I live in a religious society, that is not a lie.--

If you don't stop making malicious personal attacks based on utter fabrications and lies as well as patronizing other members I will make the necessary representations to have you removed from this site.

--You literally made a false accusation right there!--

NotReally

@Dee

Dee said:

@NotReally ;

I don't care about your "new" opinion it's not a proof 

--(Sigh), I thought you didn't want this. This exactly why I stopped debating with you. And you accuse me of stalking...--
 
You were thrashed the last time because you had no proof 

--I was not trashed. Go back to the thread. All you do is post the same thing again and again, with an addition of some insults. That is not the spirit of debate....--

I do not have to offer an "opinion "I'm making no claims that still you , seriously are you retarded ? 

--You told me, you did not want to debate, and that is the end of it.--

Do you know what burden of proof even means?
--Yes I know. I was willing to explain my position, but all you care is about throwing insults...--

Now quit the stalking or I'm asking for your removal for stalking.

--YOU Litterally posted on MY thread, and accuse ME of stalking! I asked a yes/no question. You are the one who made this into a big argument thread. This is not the place for this argument!--

NotReally

@Bogan

Bogan said:

I became an atheist when I was 15 years old.    That is the usual time when young adults start developing a brain which is capable of critical thinking.

--Almost same, mine was 14, except, I didn't become an Atheist, only till a Deist--

 Previously, I had accepted that God existed because adults have never stopped telling me that He existed.    But like all kids, sooner or later, you realise that adults do not agree over everything.    And some adults did not believe in God.     By 15 years of age, I started to doubt.

--Indoctrination...--

 Asking my science teacher about God simply brought on a wry smile and a slow shake of his head.    I suspected that he was forbidden to talk about some things.    Questioning my religious instructors (religion was compulsory when I was a kid) brought on either angry thundering denunciations of poor little Bogan by one particular "instructor", or patient explanations which explained nothing by another.

--My Sunday School Teacher scolded me for a long time, and I was scolded by the Pastor too. It is not really fair...--

 Confused, I decided that I should read the Bible.    Straight away, I realised that it was obviously written by very ignorant people who did not have a clue.    And it was extremely boring.    God wrote a boring book.     I started at Genesis, and by the time I got to Deuteronomy, I knew it was all just superstitious c-r-a-p.

--Not the last word. It was bad though. I don't know hwy they base their prayers on that--

 One thing that really bothered me was the Christian claim that they believed in only one God.    But they believed in God the Father and God the son.    A father is an entity.  A son is an entity.   1+1 equals 2.    When somebody tells me that 1+1 equals 1, they have got a real problem getting me to believe anything they say.

--I do not believe in that, but according to them it will make sense because God is not natural. Such rules may not apply to him--

 Then I thought about it on a philosophical level.    If God made everything, what the hell was he doing for 100 milion, billion, trillion, squillion, quadrillion, sextillion years before He decided to create everything?     The answer could only be nothing.   Because there was nothing to do.    He could not think, because there was nothing to think about.    Then one fine day he decided 'I'm gunna create everything!"     So he zoomed around Space, presumably at warp speed, grabbing large chunks of nothing and creating everything.

--Why the wait?--

 As the Japs say, Bursheedo.

--Wuts that--

Dee

@NotReally

My personal stalker is back still preaching away . what I said in my first post is below in bold yet you’re still stalking and preaching ….

I didn’t insult you at all I asked were you retarded because despite me saying this in my opening you’re still following me around saying “Buh , Buh what are you not debating me “ 

To be honest I gave up on that debate because you refused to actually address what I said and then accused me of being angry which I wasn’t , I don’t debate people that misrepresent what I’m saying ………

NotReally

@Dee

Nope. I don't understand your understanding of mine. Clearly, you don't understand me. So let's stop here, please. I am not chickening out, I want to do an actual debate instead of biased prejudice. Sorry .

Dee

@NotReally



Nope. I don't understand your understanding of mine. Clearly, you don't understand me. So let's stop here, please. I am not chickening out, I want to do an actual debate instead of biased prejudice. Sorry .


Please stop harassing me 

Confront a manipulator about what they did wrong and watch them make it about you 

NotReally

@Dee

I told you to stop mate.

excon

NotReally said:

Why did you become an Atheist?

Hello Not:

The year I was born somewhere around a million of my lantzmen were murdered.  Who could believe there's a god after that?  Certainly, not me.

excon

dallased25

Why did you become an Atheist? I read the bible and realized that this book could not possibly be the work of a god. After years of research and questioning everything I though I knew, I realized I no longer had any good reason to believe in any god, let alone a specific one. 
What caused the change in opinion? Reading the bible and that was the catalyst that led down a long road of researching christianity, the bible, history, science and even led me to doing a minor in Natural Sciences in college. It wasn't one thing, it was all of these and more....so basically knowledge changed my opinion. 
When did your opinion change? I don't remember specifically, but around 19 or 20 years old. 
When you were planning on changing, how did you feel? It's not something you "plan", it's just something that happens naturally over time as you learn more and more. I felt all kinds of ways at different points though, like frustration at church folk who lied to me or judged me for questioning, but the main feeling I remember is feeling justified that I was finding my way to the actual answers and that I didn't have to lie to myself or others anymore about what I believed. 
After being an Atheist, what was your experience like? Hard at first. Religious people can be real jerks. I had to avoid the subject for years since I live in a very religious part of the US. I feared being judged and even losing my job if others found out I was an atheist, mainly because my friend got fired by her religious boss after he found out she was an atheist. That's a whole other story though. 
Did your view of Theism get worse than imagined after the change? Yes, mainly though because of the religious. When you are not in their crowd, they can be downright evil. It's amazing that so many can call themselves christians, yet forget Jesus's teaching on loving your enemies and your neighbors. I've known atheists who were disowned by their families, called all kinds of names and had their livelihoods ruined by the religious. 
From what religion did you change? I grew up in a Methodist church, so "Luke warm Christianity" as I've heard it described by other christians. 
Or were you born in an Atheist family? No, complete opposite, everyone in my family, including extended family is christian, some being hardcore. 
What part of your religion made you cringe/scoff/disappoint the most? I actually have mostly fond memories of church as it wasn't about judgement or hell, etc...it was mostly about Jesus's love. The only disappointment was when I started to have questions, that's when their real personalities showed and they either gave me non-answers, or were downright mean and told me not to question or I might end up in hell. 
Or do you think I am being ridiculously nosy about your personal life? I think these kinds of things are important for the religious to read. So often, the anger I encounter from christians comes mainly from misinformation and ignorance. For example, famous TV personality and comedian Steve Harvey has said about atheists, "If you are an atheist, I don't want to talk to you because you have no moral barometer...I mean where do you get your morality from?" Well...ironically if he would actually talk to an atheist, they could answer that question.....but instead he just doesn't want to talk to us at all because he thinks we have no "moral weather instrument". If you never engage someone, how can you ever hope to actually understand where they are coming from. I once almost lost a friend when I came out as atheist to him, but we had a long conversation over several weeks..and although we don't agree on religious things, he understands me now and all he cares is that I'm happy and a good person. We've been friends for over 30 years now! So I don't mind being personal if it helps someone who is religious to even pause for a second to actually speak with and attempt to understand who and what an atheist actually is and that we are people too with overall very similar goals! 

NotReally

@dallased25

dallased25 said:

I read the bible and realized that this book could not possibly be the work of a god. After years of research and questioning everything I though I knew, I realized I no longer had any good reason to believe in any god, let alone a specific one. 

--Noice--

Reading the bible and that was the catalyst that led down a long road of researching christianity, the bible, history, science and even led me to doing a minor in Natural Sciences in college. It wasn't one thing, it was all of these and more....so basically knowledge changed my opinion. 

--Yeah, kind of related to your first answer--

I don't remember specifically, but around 19 or 20 years old. 

--Oh--

It's not something you "plan", it's just something that happens naturally over time as you learn more and more. I felt all kinds of ways at different points though, like frustration at church folk who lied to me or judged me for questioning, but the main feeling I remember is feeling justified that I was finding my way to the actual answers and that I didn't have to lie to myself or others anymore about what I believed. 

--Yeah, that was a question. Everyone has responded with there was never a plan, it just happened. What I figured others would see my question as, is "How was your experience during the times of realizing religions true colors or how did the gradual change feel"--

Hard at first. Religious people can be real jerks. I had to avoid the subject for years since I live in a very religious part of the US. I feared being judged and even losing my job if others found out I was an atheist, mainly because my friend got fired by her religious boss after he found out she was an atheist. That's a whole other story though. 

--That's really discriminative. Could you say the story?--


Yes, mainly though because of the religious. When you are not in their crowd, they can be downright evil. It's amazing that so many can call themselves christians, yet forget Jesus's teaching on loving your enemies and your neighbors. I've known atheists who were disowned by their families, called all kinds of names and had their livelihoods ruined by the religious. 

--They are loving to each other, but they cannot stand their belief be rebutted.--

I grew up in a Methodist church, so "Luke warm Christianity" as I've heard it described by other christians. 

--I didn't even these many branches of Christianity existed, I mean, North Baptist, South Baptist, it is crazy! I thought only Catholics, Latins and Protestants existed, myself being a Roman Catholic.--

 No, complete opposite, everyone in my family, including extended family is christian, some being hardcore. 

--Only one person here has claimed to be from a non-religious family--

I actually have mostly fond memories of church as it wasn't about judgement or hell, etc...it was mostly about Jesus's love. The only disappointment was when I started to have questions, that's when their real personalities showed and they either gave me non-answers, or were downright mean and told me not to question or I might end up in hell. 

--Wow same! My guys said that if you convert, you will never be succesful, especially if you become an Atheist. The word Atheist is like saying Voldemort's name during the first years. And when the priests speak about Atheists, rarely, I have heard one use the word Atheist, and that was used to ridicule them, again. Mostly they are called the 'ignorant'--

I think these kinds of things are important for the religious to read. So often, the anger I encounter from christians comes mainly from misinformation and ignorance. For example, famous TV personality and comedian Steve Harvey has said about atheists, "If you are an atheist, I don't want to talk to you because you have no moral barometer...I mean where do you get your morality from?" Well...ironically if he would actually talk to an atheist, they could answer that question.....but instead he just doesn't want to talk to us at all because he thinks we have no "moral weather instrument". If you never engage someone, how can you ever hope to actually understand where they are coming from. I once almost lost a friend when I came out as atheist to him, but we had a long conversation over several weeks..and although we don't agree on religious things, he understands me now and all he cares is that I'm happy and a good person. We've been friends for over 30 years now! So I don't mind being personal if it helps someone who is religious to even pause for a second to actually speak with and attempt to understand who and what an atheist actually is and that we are people too with overall very similar goals! 

--At first, your friend's indoctrination probably kicked in, and made him think against you, but then probably he didn't want to break your strong friendship over the simple matter of your opinion about God. Sounds like true friendship :-) --

EDIT: Sorry if you saw the laugh emoji at the end. I wanted the big smile one, but instead it put it there. Not mocking your friendship.

dallased25

NotReally said:

@dallased25

Hard at first. Religious people can be real jerks. I had to avoid the subject for years since I live in a very religious part of the US. I feared being judged and even losing my job if others found out I was an atheist, mainly because my friend got fired by her religious boss after he found out she was an atheist. That's a whole other story though. 

--That's really discriminative. Could you say the story?--
-At first, your friend's indoctrination probably kicked in, and made him think against you, but then probably he didn't want to break your strong friendship over the simple matter of your opinion about God. Sounds like true friendship :-) --

Yeah I'll share the story. It was my first real job out of college in a large office and of course we had cubicles. It was around Thanksgiving when I joined them and they did a little potluck in which the boss did a prayer at the meal. I did not bow my head for the prayer and noticed my co-worker Sharon did not either and we both kind of shared glances like "oh..you too?" Nobody seemed to notice since everyone else bowed their heads and closed their eyes. Afterwards we had a few conversations that were real hush hush, mainly because she was afraid of the boss finding out she was an atheist, a fact that she only confided in me after I told her that I was one. Well one day the boss was coming by our desks to give out some office memo's and she had a card on her desk that was from one of her atheist friends. Sharon was not at her desk at the time and our boss picked up the card and read it. It was basically a "Happy Saturnalia to my atheist friend" card, meant as a joke. As soon as she came back he asked to see her in his office. Afterwards, she was real quiet the rest of the day and retracted. I took her to lunch the next day and basically our boss had confronted her about being an atheist. He was a Baptist (very popular in the south) and was "concerned for her immortal soul". Asked her if she was indeed an atheist and if she was "ok" and if she needed to see someone. He really treated her like there was something wrong with her. Over the next few weeks, he started dropping "gifts" at her desk like Christian cards with scriptures on them, a few Christian books and eventually a bible. Mind you there were 3 other people in our department and all of us witnessed this and how inappropriate and how uncomfortable it was making her. Everyone in our department didn't care that she was an atheist, except our boss and 3 out of the 5 were Christian, but the other 2 Christians didn't care because they had worked with her for years and loved her as a person. Finally Sharon had enough and politely asked our boss if he would stop with the gifts that they were "not necessary", that she was happy and not interested in converting. All of a sudden our boss got hostile towards her. The next two weeks was him nit picking every little thing she did, coming up with every excuse to write her up and starting composing emails about all the "performance issues" copying in HR. Sharon said to all of us, "I really think he's trying to fire me because I'm an atheist" and we all agreed. This is a woman who worked for this company for 5 years, 2 of them under this boss, in which all of her reviews were great and she was a solid employee and performer, her review just month's prior was glowing with a great raise.......now all of a sudden, she's the worst employee ever according to our boss and suspiciously right after she told him to stop trying to convert her. She also told me, "This is exactly why I didn't want anyone to find out I was an atheist, Christians like him treat us like we're evil and will try to ruin our lives. Now I have to look for a new job!" She was really upset and rightly so. We filed anonymous complaints to HR about our boss's behavior, but it didn't matter. Just a week later, they pulled her into HR and terminated her. Luckily she wasn't out of the job long, but being with a company for so long has certain benefits, like having the most paid time off available, 401k contributions, etc....so she still lost all of that and would have to start over somewhere else....all become of an extremely hateful Christian who was taught to be evil against atheists. She could have sued the company, after all there was ample evidence that her rights as an employee were violated, but she chose not to, she didn't want anymore negative attention. After witnessing all of this, I've never really discussed religion again with co-workers, or in a work setting, or trusted any of my bosses, co-workers, or anyone other than very close friends with the knowledge that I'm an atheist. Just not worth risking my livelihood over other people's stupidity and hate. 

I did however get a bit of revenge in that shortly after Sharon was fired, I found a new job and quit and told off that religious piece of crap upon quitting. I also sat with HR afterwards, told them the reasons and that they were damn lucky they didn't get sued by Sharon for all the civil rights violations that our boss committed in firing Sharon. I also informed them I would be filing a complaint with the EEOC (which I did). I truthfully don't know what became of it after that, but at least I tried to do something. 

As far as my friend, yeah he's a good guy and we've been friends for over 20 years now! I'm glad he was able to look past his religious beliefs. He even defended me once when another christian told me I was going to hell! 

Barnardot

I think your being nosy about peoples lives asking such a doofus load of questions as if everyone became an atheist which is not right since everybody is not an atheist yet. You should ask all that baloney after everybody becomes an atheist then it wont sound to much like you got your nose to high in the air. @NotReally

NotReally

@dallased25 ;

dallased25 said:

NotReally said:

@dallased25

Hard at first. Religious people can be real jerks. I had to avoid the subject for years since I live in a very religious part of the US. I feared being judged and even losing my job if others found out I was an atheist, mainly because my friend got fired by her religious boss after he found out she was an atheist. That's a whole other story though. 

--That's really discriminative. Could you say the story?--
-At first, your friend's indoctrination probably kicked in, and made him think against you, but then probably he didn't want to break your strong friendship over the simple matter of your opinion about God. Sounds like true friendship :-) --

Yeah I'll share the story. It was my first real job out of college in a large office and of course we had cubicles. It was around Thanksgiving when I joined them and they did a little potluck in which the boss did a prayer at the meal. I did not bow my head for the prayer and noticed my co-worker Sharon did not either and we both kind of shared glances like "oh..you too?" Nobody seemed to notice since everyone else bowed their heads and closed their eyes. Afterwards we had a few conversations that were real hush hush, mainly because she was afraid of the boss finding out she was an atheist, a fact that she only confided in me after I told her that I was one. Well one day the boss was coming by our desks to give out some office memo's and she had a card on her desk that was from one of her atheist friends. Sharon was not at her desk at the time and our boss picked up the card and read it. It was basically a "Happy Saturnalia to my atheist friend" card, meant as a joke.

--At first I didn't read the part saying it was a joke. I was confused why an Atheist would worship Saturn lol--

 As soon as she came back he asked to see her in his office. Afterwards, she was real quiet the rest of the day and retracted. I took her to lunch the next day and basically our boss had confronted her about being an atheist. He was a Baptist (very popular in the south) and was "concerned for her immortal soul". Asked her if she was indeed an atheist and if she was "ok" and if she needed to see someone. He really treated her like there was something wrong with her. Over the next few weeks, he started dropping "gifts" at her desk like Christian cards with scriptures on them, a few Christian books and eventually a bible. Mind you there were 3 other people in our department and all of us witnessed this and how inappropriate and how uncomfortable it was making her. Everyone in our department didn't care that she was an atheist, except our boss and 3 out of the 5 were Christian, but the other 2 Christians didn't care because they had worked with her for years and loved her as a person.

--The guy thinks he is going by the Bible. This is probably the only times when they use the principle love your neighbour as yourself. I still remember hearing the priest say that Jews never understand the meaning of Bible and just obeyed it blindly, that is why they were wrong. That is the same condition of Christianity, too--

 Finally Sharon had enough and politely asked our boss if he would stop with the gifts that they were "not necessary", that she was happy and not interested in converting. All of a sudden our boss got hostile towards her. The next two weeks was him nit picking every little thing she did, coming up with every excuse to write her up and starting composing emails about all the "performance issues" copying in HR. Sharon said to all of us, "I really think he's trying to fire me because I'm an atheist" and we all agreed. This is a woman who worked for this company for 5 years, 2 of them under this boss, in which all of her reviews were great and she was a solid employee and performer, her review just month's prior was glowing with a great raise.......now all of a sudden, she's the worst employee ever according to our boss and suspiciously right after she told him to stop trying to convert her. She also told me, "This is exactly why I didn't want anyone to find out I was an atheist, Christians like him treat us like we're evil and will try to ruin our lives. Now I have to look for a new job!" She was really upset and rightly so. We filed anonymous complaints to HR about our boss's behavior, but it didn't matter. Just a week later, they pulled her into HR and terminated her. Luckily she wasn't out of the job long, but being with a company for so long has certain benefits, like having the most paid time off available, 401k contributions, etc....so she still lost all of that and would have to start over somewhere else....all become of an extremely hateful Christian who was taught to be evil against atheists. She could have sued the company, after all there was ample evidence that her rights as an employee were violated, but she chose not to, she didn't want anymore negative attention. After witnessing all of this, I've never really discussed religion again with co-workers, or in a work setting, or trusted any of my bosses, co-workers, or anyone other than very close friends with the knowledge that I'm an atheist. Just not worth risking my livelihood over other people's stupidity and hate. 

--That boss fired her just because she was an Atheist. Your friend could have easily sued the whole company, yet she didn't do it. I really think your friend qualifies more as a Christian than the boss. Not saying in a sense of worshipping God, but in a moral sense. And again, by this I don't mean that Atheist are bad, just saying that your friend followed the principles of Christianity and more importantly, morality, better than the Boss--

I did however get a bit of revenge in that shortly after Sharon was fired, I found a new job and quit and told off that religious piece of crap upon quitting. I also sat with HR afterwards, told them the reasons and that they were damn lucky they didn't get sued by Sharon for all the civil rights violations that our boss committed in firing Sharon. I also informed them I would be filing a complaint with the EEOC (which I did). I truthfully don't know what became of it after that, but at least I tried to do something. 

--Did your friend get a new job?--

As far as my friend, yeah he's a good guy and we've been friends for over 20 years now! I'm glad he was able to look past his religious beliefs. He even defended me once when another christian told me I was going to hell! 

--Daaamn, I wish someone did that for me! I can't imagine how hard being an Atheist in a Christian community would be. Seriously, I am a Deist, and this has caused me to be isolated from people. And I am already an introvert...--

NotReally

@Barnardot

Barnardot said:

I think your being nosy about peoples lives asking such a doofus load of questions as if everyone became an atheist which is not right since everybody is not an atheist yet. You should ask all that baloney after everybody becomes an atheist then it wont sound to much like you got your nose to high in the air. @NotReally

--Seriously Barney? You had to come here too and insult me. Just like I said to swolliw, I am genuinely interested in the lives of Atheists, and so far, the responses have been friendly, and perfect, witht he exceptions of Swolliw, you, and Dee(Not sure about Dee tho. At first he was angry, then he started to act weird. But it was fun tho). And I don't think everyone is going to become an Atheist any time soon. Sure, some might feel I am being nosy, and if that is your opinion, you don't have to answer the questions. What I don;t understand is why you had to pack a load of insults along with it.--

Barnardot

I don’t mean to pack the insults and anyway insults are just about always made up by the other person so they can gas light. We are pals anyway because those other guys are doofuses who say a lot but mean nothing just because they only want to stir the pot.@NotReally

NotReally

@Barnardot

Barnardot said:

I don’t mean to pack the insults

--But you did, Barney--

and anyway insults are just about always made up by the other person so they can gas light.

--Huh?--

 We are pals anyway because those other guys are doofuses who say a lot but mean nothing

--Wait, you shunned out your teammates, why?--

 just because they only want to stir the pot.

--Yes, but the fact that you remain ignorant to my options is not very friendly--

@NotReally

Dee

@NotReally

 so far, the responses have been friendly, and perfect, witht he exceptions of Swolliw, you, and Dee(Not sure about Dee tho. At first he was angry, then he started to act weird. But it was fun tho).

I was in no way angry and I wish you would stop lying about me. I told you that you were preaching as that’s what you do , you chase people around the site trying to get them to agree with you when they don’t you stalk them 

Barnardot

I was being very friendly to your options by not replying to them and in any case I did not think it was compellory to answer your options and I bet you wouldn’t answer any options just because someone says it’s not friendly. Are you a travel agent in your day job because you sure do like to sell heaps of the gilt trips.@NotReally

NotReally

@Dee

Dee said:

@NotReally

 so far, the responses have been friendly, and perfect, witht he exceptions of Swolliw, you, and Dee(Not sure about Dee tho. At first he was angry, then he started to act weird. But it was fun tho).

I was in no way angry and I wish you would stop lying about me.

--Uhh, I said it was fun, mate--

I told you that you were preaching as that’s what you do,
--Wut..., Name an instance please--

 you chase people around the site trying to get them to agree with you when they don’t you stalk them 

--Hey! I created this thread! You are the one who came here and proposed your Goddidit again, you are the one stalking!--

NotReally

@Barnardot

Barnardot said:

I was being very friendly to your options by not replying to them

--That, in no way, is friendly.--

and in any case I did not think it was compellory to answer your options

--You asked for the options and now you don't want them!--

 and I bet you wouldn’t answer any options just because someone says it’s not friendly.

--Again, you asked for the options, I gave you two, and you neglected it, and put the blame on me--

Are you a travel agent in your day job because you sure do like to sell heaps of the gilt trips.

--Okay Barney, you really are testing my patience. I am quoting our conversation from starting for you to analyze--

1) You replied to my reply to Swolliw about Agnostics, saying that in a debate Theists usually lose.

2) I replied by saying that is true, and suggested that that doesn't mean God doesn't exists. I explicitly informed
 that it was my opinion and is debatable, but not on this thread.

3) Then you argued that this is the place for argument and accused me of chickening out.

4) THIS IS IMPORTANT: This is when I replied by saying that the title of the thread is "Are Agnostics making the right choice", and not "Does God exist". 

5) IMPORTANT: And along with that, I replied, I am giving you two options, in case you wanted to debate on this topic: A DM or a new Thread.

6) You were ignorant ot these options which are more convenient for others and is more appropriate. But you refused. You said that I don't make the rules here, and that I am chickening out.

7) I got impatient because you were ignoring my options and was continuing to debate inappropriately. 

8) After this, you only replied after 5 days, and during that time, I learned more about Agnosticism through DEBATING ON THE PROPER THREAD, and all was good, then you came back in my notification center.

9) When I started looking, it looked calm. I thought you were going to consider my options. And lo! There came the insult. Saying that I can't explain my reasoning.

10) Clearly, I proposed that we could reason in another place, but you remained ignorant and adamant on debating here and insulting me.

11) I presented my options again, DM, 1v1, casual debate throught he reply.

12) FINALLY, you took notice of one of the options, DM, but then you started to attack that option saying it is not a proper way to debate. Says the person debating about the existence of God in a thread about Agnostics.

13) You said I was toeing around, but I clearly had presented my situation: I don't want to debate in a thread about Agnostics, some other thread maybe. But again you had insult me. Something about undies, I didn't read that full.

@NotReally

Dee

@NotReally

--Uhh, I said it was fun, mate--

I’m not your “mate” and that’s you idea of fun ? Seriously?


--Wut..., Name an instance please--

Your lack of awareness is incredible 

 

--Hey! I created this thread! You are the one who came here and proposed your Goddidit again, you are the one stalking!--

You created a debate topic then you go around talking about others behind their backs , I had to tell you 14 times I wasn’t interested yet you persisted