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Should we teach that Nazism is just a thing, or that it's a BAD thing?

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Hello:

In that same vein, should we teach that slavery is just a thing, or that it's BAD thing?

excon



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  • BoganBogan 156 Pts   -  
    In a democratic country, it should not be necessary to teach anyone that any form of totalitarianism is a bad thing.     As Churchill said so succinctly, "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."     But strange though it may seem to people like myself who witnessed the fall of the Bedlam Wall and the collapse of USSR, a significant proportion of people in the free, western world now hanker for a return of Marxism.     Telling them that socialism failed in every country it was ever tried is like telling a Christian religious fundamentalist that the universe was not created in six days.    They just do not want to know.    Their faith and belief trumps reality every time.

    There are four types of totalitarianism, Kingship, a theocracy, left wing socialism, and right wing socialism.    Nazism is right wing socialism.    Left wing socialists try to portray themselves as being the polar opposite to Nazis, but they are in fact two sides of the same totalitarian coin.     They are like Shiite and Sunni Muslims.   Despite their doctrinal differences, they are all still Muslims.  

    What differentiates Communism (left wing socialism) and Nazism (right wing socialism) is which demographics in any society support totalitarianism.      With left wing totalitarianism, it is the public service and their public service unions, academia, celebrities, and the usual collection of naysayers and kooks.      The Left always claimed to be the champions of the working class, a class they look right down upon.    Lately they have reealised that there is more electoral capitol to be the champions of the always dysfunctional ethnic groups, as well as recently arrives immigrants, be they legal or illegal.     Right wing totalitarians would be supported by the upper and middle classes and increasingly, the white working class.   The church was traditionally also a major supporter of right wing totalitarianism..      The right can also count on the support of the armed forces and the police, who are usually  very nationalistic, as well as veteran groups.

    As a person who believes passionately about democracy, I realise that western democracy is being rotted out by left wing groups using multiculturalism and immigration to completely change voting demographics.   The aim of the left is to create a left wing totalitarian state.    As a person who despises totalitarianism but who may have to make an unpleasant choice if western democracy falls, I would prefer right wing totalitarianism to left wing totalitarianism.    .    


  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4664 Pts   -  
    What should be emphasized, in my view, is that Nazism is a variation of socialism, and socialism, in turn, is a variation of collectivism and authoritarianism. Nowadays so many people use the word "Nazi" as a strong curse word in the same sentence as they argue for socialism; in my view, "socialist", or "Sozi", should be as much of a popular curse word as "Nazi".

    I do not think that 90% of Westerners who vilify Nazism actually understand what exactly was wrong at the core with Nazism, aside from its clear prejudice against a couple of ethnic/racial groups. Take the same Nazism, replace Jews with the regular rich people, the Fuhrer with the general secretary, and cut down on militant expansionism - and many people will happily accept the resulting system.

    Interestingly, in Asia people tend to be much more reasonable about this; perhaps being distanced from these things gives them a more weighted outlook. In Japan or Korea, for example, it is quite common to view national-socialism and international socialism in similar colors. I do not know what allowed socialism to gain a foothold on the West where people, you would think, would have learned something after the first-hand experience of interaction with the socialist camp during the Cold War.

    As far as slavery goes, most people seem to understand well what is wrong with it. It is unfortunate that they do not extend the same reasoning they use to come to this conclusion to other domains of human life.
  • BarnardotBarnardot 185 Pts   -  
    Your just trying to make Nazis normal by saying that there are people in democracys who support what you call totalitarian. Like how many though? You and the bogans next door? @Bogan
    piloteer
  • exconexcon 562 Pts   -   edited January 11

    Hello antisemite,

    So, you're gonna ignore this debate, just so you can spread a little communism..  I got it.  Start your own debate about how wonderful communism is..  THIS debate ain't about that..

    excon
  • piloteerpiloteer 1526 Pts   -   edited January 11
    @Bogan

    Nazism was specifically created in the manner it was to appeal to both left wing socialists, as well as right wing socialists. In fact, it was created to appeal to both right wing and left wing people who weren't even sympathetic to any socialist ideals at all. It was a populist movement that appealed to blue collar working class people who generally had some acceptance of socialist ideals, but were not automatically barred from being accepted as potential supporters if they were not socialists. So long as they weren't Russian nationalists or Russian communists, or those they considered illegitimate Germans citizens, the Nazis made sure to do what they could to appeal to all splinters of all branches of all political castes. They tried their best to appeal to different groups of the population who were polar opposites of each other but could be bound by Nazi philosophical extensions.  

     It would not have been anything but totally normal and acceptable for social democrats and liberals to abandon their respective liberal parties for the appeal of the Nazi party based on philosophical similarities between the two seemingly opposing principles that the Nazi's purposely had in place to appeal to those people specifically, as well as people of a more conservative viewpoint, but still with Republican (a representative government system) sentiments.

    The Nazis were calling for huge portions of the population to no longer be considered valid German citizens, so they were not in any kind of place to try and further cut off anymore of the population and potential supporters from being able to support them. They purposely did not divide any of their potential support base constituency amongst each other and barr specific divisions from being able to join their movement simply based on their political ideals. They purposely did whatever they could to appeal to ALL of their potential support base, and did what they could to not dissuade any of them from becoming potential supporters.

    Nazism cannot really be considered a "right wing" authoritarianism. It was just plain and simple authoritarianism which was as populist as could be. There's no such thing as a right wing authoritarianism vs a left wing authoritarianism. It's just authoritarianism. Right and Left conveys which side of the political aisle in a representative form of government a person, or party sits on. Generally, in western cultures, conservatives are on the right side of the aisle and progressives on the left. An authoritarian country is not a representative government because all government policy is up to one person or governing group without representation of its citizens or any other group but themselves. There is neither a left or right wing in such a society because it is not of a representative western style of governance which gives representation to citizens. An authoritarianism is neither "right" nor "left", because it is devoid of a right side or left side to anything on the political aisle because it is not a western style representative form of government which would necessitate there being a right and left side to.          

    Western democracy is not being rotted out by anything. It is a pivotal part of western democracy to allow even seemingly opposing principles be an influence, even authoritarianism in to political arenas and discussed openly as factors, but not a hindrance. The legacy of other authoritarian countries serves as a lesson in how to keep a functioning Democratic Republic. If Democratic Republics had to constantly dissolve any liberties espoused by Democracy and Republicanism every time there is a threat to those ideals, there wouldn't be any point to having any Democratic or Republican ideals enforced to begin with because just like any social philosophical and political sentiments, it is just as vulnerable as any other social sentiments. But here we are having an open discussion about it without being worried about being jailed over it.

    If your worry is of a crumbling society, can any ideal or principles actually stand up to the test of time and actually ensure that we as a society are guaranteed to be safe from any foreign or domestic threats, or any threats for that matter? Authoritarianism can do nothing more than Republics or Democracies to ensure everybody can be guaranteed safety or happiness or fulfillment or even just a plain tolerable satisfaction with life. The only thing any governmental entities can provide is the illusion of safety. But even then, you will always be reminded that you must be on guard for potential threats to your society from every direction. So you can't actually even get the illusion either. Foreigners are not a threat to Democracies or Republics, the fear of constant threats that may or may not exist, and the need for some kind of safety from those supposed threats that can't actually be provided to us by any government, that is the threat itself.         

        
  • piloteerpiloteer 1526 Pts   -  
    Barnardot said:
    Your just trying to make Nazis normal by saying that there are people in democracys who support what you call totalitarian. Like how many though? You and the bogans next door? @Bogan
     :D "You and the bogans next door?"  :joy: 

    That's rich. I like that.  
  • piloteerpiloteer 1526 Pts   -   edited January 11
    @excon

    Nazism was thoughtfully designed to be the absolute antithesis of the US constitution. So, as people of the US who still accept the constitution as our objective legal and ethical doctrine of our standards, then Nazism should be taught as nothing more than a governmental system that was created only to fool the masses into believing their style of authoritarianism could actually guarantee them something that it could not, and never actually intended to give them anyway. It caused tens of millions of deaths which were carried out in a manufacturing like manner, like factories of death. There's nothing wrong with teaching Nazism specifically to demonstrate how a terrible backward system of governance is created. Nazism should be taught as a government construct gone wrong. 

    Slavery was a specific differentiation of, and an affront to, the ideals espoused in the constitution. The US constitution outlawed slavery, but because so many states in the US still allowed it as a legal practice, the constitution set a date for it to no longer be legal anywhere, but for the time being could still be legal for the sake of all of those who still had slaves. Slavery should be made an example of a point in time when the ideals of the constitution were not being observed and instead trampled on. Slavery should be taught as a mark that has stained the image of our Republic.    
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 294 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: The Obvious

    We should teach that the Holocaust was Nazi evil in action.
    piloteer
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1442 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold
    We should teach that the Holocaust was Nazi evil in action.

    Indeed we should, just as we should teach that it was a religious organisation that fully backed (including financially) the Nazi party.

  • BoganBogan 156 Pts   -  

    To Piloteer.

    Nazism was specifically set up to oppose Marxism in Germany and both left wing socialists and right wing socialists both tried to appeal to the working class, with the left wing socialists being more successful.    One reason why Hitler hated the Jews was because he considered left wing socialism as a Jewish invention.  In this attitude he had some justification.    Many leading communists were Jews and the Internationalst philosophies of left wing socialism had strong appeal to many Jews who already thought of themselves as Jews first and citizens of any country second.    Nazis had some success in appealing to the German working class because so many working class men had been soldiers of the Great War, and veteran groups with their strong sense of nationalism reject Internationalism. 

    There are two main doctrinal differences between left wing socialism and right wing socialism.    The first is, which demographic group supports which form of totalitarianism.    The second, is that while left wing socialists want total control of the means of production and distribution, the right wing totalitarians realise that private industry is much more efficient at doing those things.      Both Russia and China have evolved from left wing totalitarianism to right wing totalitarian governments, and so far as China is concerned, it is much better off economically because of that..   

    Anti semitism is not specifically a right wing socialist trait.    Benito Mussolini was a right wing socialist and Italian Jews were safe from German persecution under him.    I am not sure, but I think that Jews in Spain were also safe under Franco.    Today, the leading anti semites are from the left, not the right.    Leaving aside the puny numbers of neo Nazis who still hate the Jews, most right wing people support Israel to the full.

     As for your statement that "western democracy is not being rooted out by anything".    I had to shake my head in pitying wonder at that statement.    You must wander around with your eyes wired shut?    The USA's own cities are burning with race riots going out of control.   That included burning down a police station.   When mobs burn down police stations it means that your police can not protect you or your family because they can not even protect themselves.

     They used to sing 'If your going to san Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair."    Today if you go to San Fran, you carry a large cloth to wipe the human faeces off your shoes. The saying in the USA used to be "as California goes, so goes the nation."      California today is going down the toilet, with corporations fleeing the socialist high taxes and government control, as well as 100,000 citizens every year for the same reason.

     Paris, it is said," is not Paris anymore."    Entire suburbs of Paris have become no go areas for white Parisians and they are areas where the French police do not enter unless in armoured cars and in force.     Video's of the fighting between 'French" Arabs and the police have been taken down by YouTube for giving Multiculturalism the bad name it deserves.

     Going on population projections in Sweden, Sweden is on course to become the first Muslim majority country in Europe.    If "Paris is not Paris anymore, then the same can be said of Sweden.

     1.  Volvo's CEO told reporters that Volvo is considering moving from Sweden entirely due to the rise of violent crime.

     2.A prominent organisation representing Assyrian Christians in Sweden, citing phone death threats to it's members from Arabic speaking Muslims,  warned of a civil war because of continuing Muslim persecution of Assyrian Christian refugee groups within Sweden.

     3.   Parcel delivery service UPS now refuses to service geographical locations in Sweden with high infestations of newly arrived immigrants, because of multiple attacks on drivers and their vehicles.    The same applies to the Swedish postal service, Post Norde which refuses to deliver mail in migrant areas of Malmo "because it is too dangerous."

     4.   Churches in areas heavily populated by migrants are regularly being attacked with explosives and fire bombs. 

     5.   Continuing attacks by offenders using military hand grenade attacks on Swedish police stations make Sweden unique for a state not at war.

     6.    Shootings in Sweden have risen by a factor of 10 in one generation.

     7.   Sweden now the rape capitol of the world and police are warning Swedish women to not go out at night to avoid being raped.

     8.    One female Swedish pro refugee campaigner who gave two Afghan refugee men asylum in her own home, in order to "prove how xenophobes were wrong", was raped by those two men.

     9.   Murder in Sweden up 40% since 2012.

     10.    The mass burning of cars, sometimes dozens at a time, a crime unheard of before mass migration, now common.

     11.   One hospital in Sweden reports that procedures mitigating the effects of female genital mutilation have increased 2000% since 2003.

     12.   Swedish Jews report that Malmo is now a no go zone for Jews.

     13.   Kindergarten staff now encouraging Swedish boys to wear dresses.

     14.   Swedes who talk about these problems on the Internet are arrested, interrogated, fined and imprisoned.

     

    Then there is my own country, Australia, touted as being "the most successful multicultural country in the world."

     1.   Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews stating publically that "terrorism is part of contemporary Australia."

     2.  "Diversity bollards" all over our cities to prevent ordinary pedestrians from being mass murdered by "contemporary" Muslim Jihadis and Ghazis (those who kill an infidel) in  heavy vehicles.

     3.   Machines in even regional airports which see right through passengers clothing in order to prevent underpants bombers from blowing airliners full of Australians out of the sky.

     4.   Armed guards outside of newspaper offices and Jewish schools.  

     5.   The fortification of every vital government department with steel gates and security guards.

     6.   70 Australian girls gang raped by Muslim race hate rape packs in Sydney, at the time of the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

     7.    Demands by "moderate" Muslims and their leaders for social exclusion in swimming pools, gender segregation, and exemptions from the common law.

     8.   The elected head of the "moderate" Australian Islamic Council telling Prime Minister Turnbull at an official social dinner that homosexuals should be executed.

     9.   Demands from "moderate" Muslim organisations for Sharia Law in Muslim suburbs, and exemptions for Muslims from voting, as democracy is "against Islam."

     10.  Child brides, forced marriages, and "honour" killings.

     11.   Specialist medical teams in Canturbury, Bankstown, and Fairfield hospitals to treat the consequences of female genital mutilation.

     12.   Attacks on churches and synagogues.

     13.   The NSW Bureau of Crime statistics finding that in the year 2000, 55% of the handgun shootings in the entire state of NSW occured within two notorious, crime infested ethnic ghettoes in Sydney.

     14.   The refusal by Muslim drivers to allow blind people with seeing eye dogs or passengers carrying alcohol to enter their cabs.

     15.   Six Sydney schools in the "troubled" (an Education Department euphemism for "Muslim") Southwest of Sydney now have permanent security guards to protect teachers and students from violent students and parents.      Relief teachers refusing to work in these "troubled" schools.     High turnover rates of new teachers.

     16.   Australian soldiers, SES volunteers, ambulance drivers, and Fire Brigade officers advised to not wear their uniforms while not on duty to minimise the risk of being attacked and even beheaded.

     17.   Australian citizens being shot down on streets and in coffee shops by Jihadis.

     

    18.   African gangs in Dandenong out of control with the Victorian police advising residents to flee them on sight.    While simultaneously, the myopic Victorian Premier, certain judges and senior Victorian police claim that there is no African elephant in the room.

     19.   Aborigines in North Queensland and NSW declaring their tribal lands to be "sovereign states ".   "Aboriginal courts" handing out "aboriginal punishments" to "aboriginals"(including spearings)    Aboriginal leaders demanding "aboriginal only" seats in Federal parliament after former Imam Sheik al Hilaly demanded the same thing for Muslims in the NSW State parliament.

     20.   The racist "aboriginal" flag flying alongside the Australian flag on government buildings and schools, suggesting that aboriginals are part of a separate state.

     21.   Ethnic soccer clubs in Sydney being forced to change their ethnic descriptor names because soccer games in Sydney between ethnic rivals degenerated into full scale race riots.

     22.   Ethnic crime so bad that the Australian Bureau of Statistics was ordered not to keep any records on ethnic crime.      But ABS statistics on "Incarcerated Prisoners by Country of Birth" clearly displayed that some ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in serious criminal behaviour. 

     23.   The Australian Administrative Appeal Board  Immigration routinely over riding the Immigration Minister's deportation rulings and opposing the deportation of the worst types of foreign criminals, including murderers, rapists, child molesters, and gang members, apparently so that these boards can give the Australian public, who pay their wages but whom they seemingly despise,  a two fingered salute.

     24.   The severe curtailment of our most cherished civil liberties through terrorism legislation, including habeas corpus, and search and seizure by police without a judicial warrant of any person's motor vehicle or place of abode.    Severe curtailment of freedom of speech through 18C.

     25.   Widespread rorting of visas, corruption charges within the Immigration Department, grossly underpaid and exploited workers in ethnic businesses labelled "systemic" by Alan Fels.     Slavery and slumlords.

     26.   Foreign governments using their ethnic minorities within Australia to manipulate Australian governments and influence elections.       The shameless pork barrelling of ethnic communities by Australian politicians in order to secure their collective votes.

     27.   State Police with sub machine guns and paratrooper boots looking more like storm troopers than traditional police.

     28.   White flight from multiculturalism causing monoculturalism in Australian city suburbs through ethnic ghettoisation.

     29.   So many illegal immigrants within Australia that advertisements directed at illegal immigrants within Australia being advertised in foreign newspapers.

     30.   Fruit suppliers to Coles and Woolworths found to be using illegal foreign workers.

     31.  A NSW parliamentary inquiry finding that some ethnic farmers were using raw human sewerage as fertiliser.

     32.   The alleged corruption of Australian politicians by China which resulted in the sacking of Labor's star ethnic politician, Sam Dastyari, and the investigation by the AFP and ASIO into the dealings of  Shaoquett Moselmane.

     33.   The Chinese Communist party using Chinese students in Australia to harrass and threaten anyone in Australia the CCP does not like, including Falun Gong supporters and supporters of Hong Kong and Tibet.

     34.   Several terrorism incidents and some thwarted terrorism incidents involving "refugees".

     35.   Some ethic and religious groups notorious for their very high rates of serious criminal behaviour and welfare dependency.

     36.   Meanwhile, South Korea and Japan, two societies noted for their strong social cohesion, lack of civil strife,  and very low crime rates do not appear to be in any way handicapped by their lack of "diversity."

     37.  $10 billion dollars in Australian currency lost to Australia every year by immigrants sending "remittance" money "home" to their families.   At least part of these "remittances" have been used as a money laundering scheme by criminals and also to fund terrorism.

     

    If Australia is the best, then God help the worst.    But Piloteer can not see any problems?     Move along folks, nothing to see here.   Ama-a-a-a-a-zing.


     
  • piloteerpiloteer 1526 Pts   -   edited January 11
    @Bogan

    So lets make sure we're on the same page here. You're saying western democracy is "rotting out", or "being rooted out" because: 
    ---"1.   Volvo's CEO told reporters that Volvo is considering moving from Sweden entirely due to the rise of violent crime".---

    There is no reason to think that western democracy is rotting out because the CEO of Volvo told reporters that Volvo is considering moving due to the rise of violent crime. It really seems more like a problem for Volvo and not the problem of western democracy particularly the democracy of the US. The next reason why you think western culture is being rooted out is because-

    ----" 2.A prominent organisation representing Assyrian Christians in Sweden, citing phone death threats to it's members from Arabic speaking Muslims,  warned of a civil war because of continuing Muslim persecution of Assyrian Christian refugee groups within Sweden.---

    This again, is no reason to believe western democracy is rotting out, and you don't actually give us what the actual name of this "prominent organization" is, but in the end it won't matter if you do because western democracy is not rotting out because Assyrian Christians in Sweden are being warned of civil war?!?!? Ya, there's not even a vague thought process going on with your claim right now. Exactly what about Assyrian Christians (whatever that is) in Sweden being threatened with civil war means I must give up my Democratic Republican values? Next you say western democracy is rotting out because-  

    --- 3.   Parcel delivery service UPS now refuses to service geographical locations in Sweden with high infestations of newly arrived immigrants, because of multiple attacks on drivers and their vehicles.    The same applies to the Swedish postal service, Post Norde which refuses to deliver mail in migrant areas of Malmo "because it is too dangerous."----

    Ok, I'm seeing a "Sweden" theme going on here, so there's some kind of theme going on with your argument here I guess, but again, still not sure why western democracy should be dissolved because UPS now refuses to service geographical locations in Sweden........and it goes on and on...    

    Next on your list of rotting reasons is-

    ---"4.   Churches in areas heavily populated by migrants are regularly being attacked with explosives and fire bombs."

    Ummm, could you give us some names and dates and places and specific instances of this ever happening? That has not happened in my country, at least certainly not on a level near large enough for the vast majority of the US population to have to reject the US constitution. If that's happening widely in Australia, I'm not seeing any reason why the US has to drop their Democratic Republican ideals. Next Your reasoning as to why democracy is rotting is because-   

    --- "5.   Continuing attacks by offenders using military hand grenade attacks on Swedish police stations make Sweden unique for a state not at war."

    Still seeing your Swedish theme here. Way to stick to that though. It really shows commitment and dedication when someone sticks to a meaningless theme for no reason whatsoever which has no bearing on what we're discussing. 

    Moving on, I'm just going to save us all some time by putting your claims to rest. If I live in a free Democratic Republic, there's nothing about Sweden that should concern me in the least, unless of course Sweden tries to attack my country. But, they haven't, and they have no plans to do so, but if they do, everyone in the US should be ready to fight them. What happens in Sweden is the business of the Swedish people only.

    Oh look, you have another random list for me to go through which I'm sure is scintillating and a real eye opener just like your whole rant about Sweden was. 

    What else do you have here?!?!?! You claim Australia is "touted as being the most successful multicultural country in the world." I've never heard that claim, and I don't really buy into any claims of Australia being the most successful at anything, so I guess that can put your fears to rest. Don't worry anymore, Australia is not the most successful multicultural country in the world. 

    Number 3 in your list of reasons why Democratic Republicanism is rotting out has to do with the fact that there are baggage scanners at airports in Australia to make sure no harmful things get onto airplanes and cause "Australians to be blown out of the sky."?!?! I had to read that one twice to make sure you actually put this up on a thread because there's no reason to believe Democratic Republics are rotting out because of airline baggage scanners. Are you actually satisfied with this reason and the time you took to write this out?!?!? You are claiming that Democratic Republics are rotting out because of airline baggage scanners? There's no valid reason for anything here, let alone a good reason to believe Democratic Republics are rotting out.      

    If Australia is being invaded by masked Muslim hoards, then Australia should be free to fight for their country and way of life. If they are not successful in their struggle to do so, it doesn't bother me in the very least. One central theme of Democratic Republics is sovereignty. That means that my country allows your country to run their political system in a manner Australians feel fit to do so as long as it doesn't impede on the US. But that also means that if Australia is not successful in maintaining any kind of cohesive society and their country crumbles, the US will do the right thing and allow that to happen unabated because the people of the US live in a sovereign nation and it's citizens are free from having to worry about the crumblings of other countries. 

    I've never heard anybody on this site claim they've been a victim of ethnic minority crimes like shoe bombings and mass shootings. Nor have I heard of anybody who even knows anybody who have been a victim of such. Neither I, nor my neighbors have bars on our windows where I live, and I live in a neighborhood which is predominantly not made up of white people. I don't know anybody who has to have bars on their windows because of a fear of masked Muslim hoards trying to get in and rape everything. I don't even know anybody who knows anybody who has to do that. Even if we did need to do that, what about my right as a US citizen to defend myself from masked hoards says that Democratic Republics are rotting out? If and when you feel you have a valid reason for anybody to believe your claim that Democratic Republics are rotting out, go ahead and let us know, but none of that persuasive evidence is in any of the tripe you put up so far.

    I've been to San Francisco within the past six months and I assure you I did not need to keep a cloth with me to wipe fecal matter off my shoes. It is impeccably clean. The next time you are there, you should let us know about these masses of fecal matter that accumulate on your shoes for us to see. But even if that were true (which it's not), there's still no reason to think Democratic Republics are rotting out because of fecal matter on your shoe, and of course, only when you visit San Francisco. I can tell you that the prices of everything are outrageous in San Francisco. Certainly not a crumbling Democratic Republic though.     

    Last you say  "But Piloteer can not see any problems?     Move along folks, nothing to see here.   Ama-a-a-a-a-zing."

    Was that supposed to be funny you Aussie cunt? That was about as funny as the notion that you're not missing a chromosome and your opinion should matter as much as the rest of ours with all of our functioning chromosomes. I owe you a sincere apology if I ever gave you the notion that your feelings matter. They do not!!!

     

    excon
  • BoganBogan 156 Pts   -  

    To piloteer.

    My premise is, that western civilsation is being rotted out and I gave you numerous examples of just that in Sweden, France, the UK, the USA and Australia.     But "there are none so blind as those who will not see."     Your own county of the USA seems to me to be heading towards a civil war, with an election in New York where the Democrats actually allowed non citizens to vote.    If you refuse to see that this is direct attack on democracy by a bunch of power mad loony leftists determined to undermine democracy to stay in power in perpetuity, then you must be one of those 50% of US electors who must be meth heads, and  who voted for Biden and Kamala Harris.   

     
    And for your information, my country, Australia, was responsible for the most significant technological advance in the whole of human history.   We invented the ring pull beer can.  

    Like the USA, Australia's voting system is being corrupted by Tammany Hall politics where the Left in particular are seeking to divide our nation through Identity Politics.      The rule of thumb is, minorities are always right and white people are always wrong.       Even criticising the Left's new electors in Australia is illegal under Socialist inspired legislation called  "The Racial Discrimination Act, 18C".     This makes it illegal to "offend, insult, humiliate, or intimidate" any race or ethnicity.    Except the white race, of course.     As usual, white people are fair game for every hurtful accusation that the Left can dream up.      In Australia, 18C is simply a grafted on defamation law with one exception.   it does not matter if the person being charged is telling the truth.   Freedom  of speech in Australia today ends with some ethnic minority spokesperson's hurt feelings.

     If you haven't figured out what the Left are doing, then let me enlighten you.  

     The Left once claimed to be the champions of the working class, a class they utterly despise as inferior.   Generally speaking, white working class people were just too smart to accept the empty promises of left wing socialism, and with rising prosperity in the western world, who needed a left wing political movement banging on about how the workers were oppressed by the bosses?

     So the lefties needed a new electorate.   They got it by appealing to recently arrived immigrants, both legal and illegal.       The Left don't care if many of these immigrants have low IQ's and a genetic predisposition to violent behaviour, the more dysfunctional the western population, the better for the Left.    It creates public service jobs to 'solve" the endemic social problems that dysfunctional ethnicities always create.     With dysfunctional minority population proportions always rising, either through birth rate differentials of legal and illegal immigration, the left is assured that sooner of later, they will get the socialist bureaucrats paradise that they have always dreamed about.   A government "of the public service, by the public service, and for the public service."    Which is as close a definition of Communism as you can get.    The left then redifined who were the new "oppressor's" and who were the new "appressed."       The ever growing numbers of dysfunctional minorities were the new "oppressed', and white western civilisation was the new "oppressor."  

     I passionately believe in democracy.    But is the left continues to rot out my country using underhanded attacks like limiting free speech, and I am forced to choose between which form of totalitarianism is the better choice for me, I will choose right wing totalitarianism.      Obviously, I can not choose leftist totalitarianism because the left has made it crystal clear for decades that it despises white people, our flag, our Queen, our traditions, and everything about white culture.    So naturally, I would prefer a right wing totalitarian regime over a left wing one.   Especially one which praises white European civilisation instead of a left wing one that always s-h-i-t-cans it.    

    At the moment the Leftists are in charge in the USA, elected largely by dysfunctional minorities and educated dreamers, and your once great country is going down the toilet.    Democrat cities full of not real smart dysfunctional Democrat voters who elected really dumb politicians were the ones who dreamed up this idiotic "defund the police" movement.    Gee, that went down well, didn't it?      It is as obvious as the nose on your face that it is the Democrat run cities full of Democrat voting dysfunctional minorities which are your nations millstones around it's neck.     You don't need to be a Mensa from the local Audubon society to figure that out, even a Densa can see it.



  • piloteerpiloteer 1526 Pts   -   edited January 12
    @Bogan

    I did not realize Australia created the pull tab on beer cans. I cannot contest that that is a very important invention. I guess you got me there. 

    There are no laws in the US that prohibits anybody from making hateful remarks towards anybody, even if it's based on their race. Hate speech is totally protected by the constitution. Death threats and the like are illegal, and always have been. But if free speech is legal, the ramifications of what someone says cannot be governed by law, because everybody is free to express their feelings towards those who make hateful comments about anybody. If a business owner dislikes somebody's comments, they can deny them services and barr them from being employed. A person can literally be barred from getting even the most basic needs to survive because of what they say. That's how freedom of speech works. We are free to express our hate towards people we don't like, which means everybody else is free to dislike people who express their hatred. That still remains true in the US.

    If your argument is that the Democratic Republican process is being rotted out and should be restored, I can't disagree with that. But if your argument is that the Democratic Republican process has failed because the population of minority ethnic groups are rising, I don't see what valid point anybody can make to claim Democratic Republicanism has failed based on that, because Democratic Republicanism was never intended for population control, or for conserving the majority of any population.

    The fastest growing minority ethnic group in the US is Spanish ethnic people. Most of the countries that Spanish people come from have had some sort of Democratic Republican process in place at some time in their history. And most of the time, the reason they're in the US is because the country where their families were native to no longer have the Democratic Republican process that the US still does have. The younger ethnic Spanish families in the US do not predominantly even speak Spanish at home any longer, they speak English. Vast portions of these ethnic Spanish people support American nationalist politics, including the leader of the proud boys. There are no vested political conspiracies among the fastest growing ethnic minority group in the US to overthrow the Democratic Republican process. I myself work with, have grown up with, and went to school with and befriended countless Spanish people in the US and have never met a single one of them who conveyed any interest in socialistic anti-Democratic Republicanism sentiments. In fact, most of them are vehemently against socialistic sentiments and vote for the same people a staunch white conservative would vote for because these ethnic Spanish people are probably in this country because of a deep hatred for socialism to begin with.

    After the truth about US minorities is put in this light, it's ironic to think that the only true socialist people in the US are mostly white people who are either nationalistic or communistic, but in the end, there's no difference between the two because they're not individualistic which is what the US constitution stands for. So, sad stories about fecal matter on peoples shoes do not move me just the same as white middle class college liberals who are afraid of overpopulation of poor people do not move me. So if I'm a staunch supporter of individual liberty, which I am, and individual liberty is the most important principle in the US constitution, which it is, then it will be those who oppose individualism who I will consider to be enemy insurgent entities in the US, whether they are of an ethnic minority group or a white socialist. The law and the policy on this site prohibits me from calling for these people to be treated as enemy insurgents and stripped of their citizenship and dealt with in accordance with laws governing foreign insurgents and hunted like animals instead of given a proper trial and their right to life be considered like proper citizens deserve under the constitution. But trust me, if I could call for these people to be stripped of their citizenship and do that legally and get away with it, I would. Because it is those who are my true enemy.                      
    excon
  • BoganBogan 156 Pts   -  

    Piloteer wrote

     There are no laws in the US that prohibits anybody from making hateful remarks towards anybody, even if it's based on their race. Hate speech is totally protected by the constitution. Death threats and the like are illegal, and always have been. But if free speech is legal, the ramifications of what someone says cannot be governed by law, because everybody is free to express their feelings towards those who make hateful comments about anybody. If a business owner dislikes somebody's comments, they can deny them services and barr them from being employed. A person can literally be barred from getting even the most basic needs to survive because of what they say. That's how freedom of speech works. We are free to express our hate towards people we don't like, which means everybody else is free to dislike people who express their hatred. That still remains true in the US.

     Then the USA with it's constitutional protection of free speech is alone in the western world in that respect.      And free speech is the foundation stone of Democracy.    But with the exception of the USA, free speech is steadily being eroded throughout the entire western world by left wing political parties who know with absolute certainty that they can remain in power in perpetuity by turning their backs on their own indigenous white populations, and instead pretending that they are the protectors of the "oppressed" (dysfunctional minorities) from the evil oppressors (white people).

     Your own Democratic party constantly makes references to defending "people of colour".       "People of colour" means "anybody not white."     Your Democratic Party is promoting racism towards white people to divide and conquer your country.       We have already seen just how easy it is in Europe for left wing parties to completely over ride the constitutional protections of any nation.    Just get a bunch of left wing bureaucrats together with a one world government mindset, to sign away the sovereignty of their own people, in their own country,  to legally binding international agreements.      Poland is now in the position where it's own politicians signed a document over riding the Polish constitution and giving power over the Polish people to the unelected European Court of Justice.    It's that easy.

     Piloteer wrote

     If your argument is that the Democratic Republican process is being rotted out and should be restored, I can't disagree with that. But if your argument is that the Democratic Republican process has failed because the population of minority ethnic groups are rising, I don't see what valid point anybody can make to claim Democratic Republicanism has failed based on that, because Democratic Republicanism was never intended for population control, or for conserving the majority of any population.

     Then the Democratic Party of the USA has pulled the wool right over your eyes.    They have figured out that with white populations declining and non white populations increasing, the trick to having perpetual power in the USA is to divide the country using Identity Politics.     Almost every proposal of the Democratic Party is being presented as the Dems being the protectors of minorities, opposing the Republicans who are the protectors of white privilege.      Critical Race Theory is anti white racism and it is being promoted to the max by the Democrats.    As Biden so famously said "If you vote for Trump, you ain't black."

     Piloteer wrote

     The fastest growing minority ethnic group in the US is Spanish ethnic people.

     That is because they are Catholics and they breed like flies.     Their own countries are now hideously over populated and that is one reason why their countries are so dysfunctional.    And you don't see any problem with Latinos just swarming into your country and making you are minority in your own country?      Well, the Dems are right ahead of you there.       

     Piloteer wrote

      Most of the countries that Spanish people come from have had some sort of Democratic Republican process in place at some time in their history. And most of the time, the reason they're in the US is because the country where their families were native to no longer have the Democratic Republican process that the US still does have.

     But they do not have democratic governments now.   Latino countries eventually become either left wing or right wing dictatorships because the damned places are almost ungovernable without very strong centralised government control.    Now, extrapolate forward and think of what will happen to the USA when your country becomes a Latino majority country?      Suburb by suburb, the white population of the USA is being squeezed out of it's own territory, and what replaces it is something akin to the dysfunctional states of South America. 

     Piloteer wrote

     The younger ethnic Spanish families in the US do not predominantly even speak Spanish at home any longer, they speak English. Vast portions of these ethnic Spanish people support American nationalist politics, including the leader of the proud boys. There are no vested political conspiracies among the fastest growing ethnic minority group in the US to overthrow the Democratic Republican process. I myself work with, have grown up with, and went to school with and befriended countless Spanish people in the US and have never met a single one of them who conveyed any interest in socialistic anti-Democratic Republicanism sentiments. In fact, most of them are vehemently against socialistic sentiments and vote for the same people a staunch white conservative would vote for because these ethnic Spanish people are probably in this country because of a deep hatred for socialism to begin with.

     Some of them might be, having suffered under left wing dictatorships in their own countries.    But blood is thicker than ideology.    And if the Dems continue to present themselves as the protectors of "oppressed" Latinos against the white "oppressors'" then you can bet that it will eventually gain them massive support from Latinos.    The only fly in the ointment for Lefties is that Lefties support causes which the Catholic Latinos find abhorrent.

     Piloteer wrote

    After the truth about US minorities is put in this light, it's ironic to think that the only true socialist people in the US are mostly white people who are either nationalistic or communistic, but in the end, there's no difference between the two because they're not individualistic which is what the US constitution stands for.

     Left wing socialists comprise the public service (minus the armed forces and police), academia, celebrities, and whatever bunch of kooks and perpetual naysayers are around who despise the society they choose to live in.  Here in Australia, public service jobs now have quotas for minorities, which just happens to be racial discrimination against white people  The same for private industry, there are now racial quotas in place for any business who employs more than a dozen or so employees.      Merit comes second to skin colour.     Western governments today fight against racial discrimination by using racial discrimination.

     Piloteer wrote

     So, sad stories about fecal matter on peoples shoes do not move me just the same as white middle class college liberals who are afraid of overpopulation of poor people do not move me.

     You got that all wrong.    White middle class college liberals vote for Biden and his racism towards white people.    As the Chinese say, "third generation no good."     Middle class, educated people are far more likely to vote for Leftist parties, as a form of penance for being born into a family with money.    By advocating for the poor, "oppressed" minorities, they may think it will save them from the guillotine when the revolution comes.     Meanwhile, they can cheer for the poor "oppressed" from the comfort of their gated and guarded communities.    In Australia, it has been noted that those who are the most ardent supporters of Multiculturalism are the very same ones who live the furthest away from it's negative consequences. 

     Piloteer wrote

      So if I'm a staunch supporter of individual liberty, which I am, and individual liberty is the most important principle in the US constitution, which it is, then it will be those who oppose individualism who I will consider to be enemy insurgent entities in the US, whether they are of an ethnic minority group or a white socialist.

     Neither left wing totalitarians nor right wing totalitarians are in any way supporters of individual liberty.   Which is why I support democracy.       But I live in a world where left wing totalitarians are winning the war against democracy using immigration and race politics.     When you finally realise the same thing, you had better choose which form of totalitarianism you prefer?

     Piloteer wrote

     The law and the policy on this site prohibits me from calling for these people to be treated as enemy insurgents and stripped of their citizenship and dealt with in accordance with laws governing foreign insurgents and hunted like animals instead of given a proper trial and their right to life be considered like proper citizens deserve under the constitution. But trust me, if I could call for these people to be stripped of their citizenship and do that legally and get away with it, I would. Because it is those who are my true enemy.   

     I don't know why you have such scruples about the policy of this debate site after you already called me an "Aussie cunt."      Spit it out, man.    I consider that those who support the destruction of white western civilisation by the dilution of the white population by dysfunctional minorities to be traitors, and I have no qualms in saying that.                   

  • piloteerpiloteer 1526 Pts   -   edited January 13
        @Bogan

    ""Your Democratic Party is promoting racism towards white people to divide and conquer your country.""" 

    """And you don't see any problem with Latinos just swarming into your country and making you are minority in your own country?"""      

    So your argument is that the Democratic party in my country wants to divide my country based on race. So, to combat that, you propose that we divide ourselves based on our race?!?!? Did you think about this before it left your head and landed on this site for all of us to see? Exactly what about this proposal are you expecting anybody to be convinced of? You're proposing that the Democratic party in my country wants to divide us by race, so to combat that we must divide ourselves by race. But you are also somehow trying to suggest that you're not the same as the Democratic socialists who want to divide us by our race?!?!? You think some sort of socialist authoritarianism is going to happen, so we should choose your option, which is to divide ourselves by our race so we at least won't be a leftist socialist authoritarianism that wants to divide my country by race?!?! You are literally saying we should do what the Democratic party is trying to do to us, so we can combat what the Democratic party is trying to do to us!!!!!

    It's like, no matter how many times I say it, it still makes absolutely no sense. How many times have you needed to say it before it started to make sense to you?!?!because...duuuuuuude :o ... I don't think I'll have enough time in my life to say it enough for it to make sense. 
    excon
  • BoganBogan 156 Pts   -  

    Oh no, piloteer.     Don't do anything at all.     When Bernie Sanders is the President for Life of the USA, who was elected into office by people who are not even citizens of the USA, when the only people paying taxes are white people and Asian people, when you run out of red states to flee to because they are all blue, because the governors of those states were elected by non citizens who came to the USA to get the white provided welfare, when your homicide rate is the same as Mexico's, when you dial 911 and nobody comes because the police have been defunded, when M19 mobs can just walk into your home and take what they like because  Democrat politicians say that the poor oppressed minorities are just getting justified revenge on white people who have always oppressed them, and your economy is as bankrupt as Venezuela, when your kids are ashamed to be white because their leftist teachers can get away teaching white kids to be ashamed of their race, and when the FBI is jailing parents who vocally object to their kids receiving anti white racist communist indoctrination instead of being educated, maybe then you might get your head out of the TV football and start figuring out that maybe you should have woken up to what is happening to your country, a lot sooner.

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