Is our pursuit of happiness the actual cause of our unhappiness?

piloteer

The original comments on this thread have disappeared. So we get to start over now. 

John_C_87

Or, continue on a path with less distraction...

Be careful the first teachings of a “Worrier of enlightenment" are from, or are said to be from observers, of those who have found true enlightenment in another. It comes as written documentation of a lecture given to that group of monks as a reason why disappointment filled a heart, and the worrier was to leave their company.

The first guide of a possible path to Enlightenment may begin at the observation of all suffering held in others. This path changes and is dangerous and should not be started without serious understanding of what it is you seek.

MayCaesar

I would say that it is not pursuit of happiness itself that makes us unhappy, but our interpretation of it: that since we are in a constant pursuit of happiness, we are never there. We focus on what can be improved in our lives versus what has already been improved, leaving us continuously unsatisfied. Every time we achieve something that we think should make us happier, we immediately think of something else that we have not achieved yet and believe that it prevents us from being happy.

Classical loop: you meet a lady who you like and think, "If I could just hang out with her a bit, I would feel great". You hang out with her, then think, "I need to become her friend to feel great". You become her friend and now want to become her best friend. You become her best friend and want to become her boyfriend. You become her boyfriend and want to become her husband. You become her husband and want to become a father. You become a father and want your kids to grow up. They grow up and you want them to find partners... All the while you do not take a moment to appreciate the fact that all these things you wanted so much to happen did happen, you just forgot about how special they were for you.

I am not a fan of the concept of "gratitude" for what you have, but I do like to revel in things that I have. I certainly want to make more money, for instance, but I already make far more than I need for a very comfortable life, and every time I go to an upscale restaurant or enjoy an expensive hobby, I think, "Wow, I an living my life to the fullest!" Does not prevent me from setting and pursuing new goals, but assures that I enjoy every step of the way.

It is also very helpful to see a bigger picture. If you have a hard day at work, it helps to appreciate that (if you do) you work from a comfortable office with heating and A/C while some people out there in the world are chopping banana trees with machetes under scorching hot sun. People would be much-much happier if they regularly reflected upon all the luxuries they have in their modern lives, luxuries that the overwhelming majority of humans in history could not even conceive of.

Luigi7255

The pursuit of happiness has left most who search for it the cause of others' depression or their own depression. One's wish to be happy must come from what someone does, not why someone does something.

piloteer

@MayCaesar

I agree completely. Much of this thread was inspired by Dostoevsky. This concept comes naturally to Russians. Fyodor would have also warned people not to surround themselves with themselves, and appreciate all the people who make our lives more meaningful.   

piloteer

Luigi7255 said:

The pursuit of happiness has left most who search for it the cause of others' depression or their own depression. One's wish to be happy must come from what someone does, not why someone does something.

Could you elaborate? 

John_C_87

@piloteer
I appologizer as I feel as though I may be to cridicale in what you write sometimes, and it is not my goal.

I wonder if it is the idea of happiness itself that is what causes our suffering. Perhaps we need a new idea of what happiness actually is, or even a radically different concept in place of happiness itself. Or maybe the answer has always been there. Maybe, happiness is so unattainable that we should instead focus on simple satisfaction, or strive for endless entertainment instead of endless happiness. Or maybe the pursuit of power is more attainable than happiness and instead we should strive for satisfaction from power. 

I do not think you understand something the above statement confuses the principles of Taoism with Buddhism when we say our own pursuit of happiness, we are talking in a context of Taoism not Buddhism. Buddhism in basic is the understanding of others sufferings and cultivation through that suffering in reflection, whereas Taoism it the reflection and cultivation of self before others. If that makes sense?

John_C_87

Understanding piloteer the poignancy of the question still stands, and I can anticipate the question in debate to hold a united state under liberties given to you by United States Constitutional right. Because someone drops something slippery from their hands does not me it is not still theirs nor that has been lost.

piloteer

@John_C_87

No apology warranted John, I did not consider your statement critical.  

Actually John, it makes all too much sense. I did say Buddhism, but it never occurred to me that the concept of our "pursuit of happiness" may have come from some other ancient Asian philosophy other than Buddhism, but you are probably correct. I should have used the Taoist example. Perhaps I was relying too heavily on David Hume's similarities to Buddhism, but never considered the idea that the concept of serving our individual needs (self) probably did not come from Buddhism, which would make sense. The Dalai Lama encourages westerners not to practice Buddhism because it is also a cultural practice based on a strict hierarchy that most westerners may not understand. He actually encourages westerners to follow Taoism instead because it would be much more harmonious with modern western cultures.         

John_C_87

@piloteer
No apology warranted John, I did not consider your statement critical.  
Sure there is an apology warrated it is a me thing and I at liberty to do so.........lol

The Dalai Lama encourages westerners not to practice Buddhism because it is also a cultural practice based on a strict hierarchy that most westerners may not understand. He actually encourages westerners to follow Taoism instead because it would be much more harmonious with modern western cultures

I do not think the Dalai Lama understands Taoism that well either........lol... want to know a secrete not really funny the freedom of religion is not singular...
But hey it is not a test it is dialog. This may bring us to the point that the 1st Amendment may need to remove freedom of speech and replace it with the freedom of dialog as a 1st step to a path of correcting a mass amount of injustice as a united state / state of the union?

John_C_87

Sh..........don't tell any-one a wrong and a right do not make a right.......
Two rights can, its that or a U-Turn.

piloteer

@John_C_87

Interesting concept. I'm often squeamish about proposals of changing the Constitution, or even the text, but it's difficult to argue that changes strictly for linguistic corrections only to clarify  and account for rhetorical evolution must never be used because it will eventually need to be done, and whose to say the US will always be a predominantly English speaking country? So, it's not off the table completely with me. Just as long as we don't get all Christian "Constitutionalists" and demand changes to the Constitution to preserve Christian heritage. That would be a big NO on that.       

John_C_87

@piloteer

Interesting concept. I'm often squeamish about proposals of changing the Constitution, or even the text, but it's difficult to argue that changes strictly for linguistic corrections only to clarify  and account for rhetorical evolution must never be used. So, it's not off the table completely with me. Just as long as we don't get all Christian "Constitutionalists" and demand changes to the Constitution to preserve Christian heritage is not a reason for changing the Constitution. 

Our Orders are clear.......No Fear........    We share the United State of ratification by a majority of Sates in the Union...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Full Text of the U.S. Constitution | Constitution Center
The only thing........

A question or two, are you, We the people of the United States? (Openly held in a state of the union as a republican to establish no harm created by self-evident truth)

Are you, We the people of the divided state? (You have seen what I can do with a pencil, make it an assault weapon)

John_C_87

I will be unable to rely any more until tomorrow……mid A.M.....I’m off to take my meds…

lol.......