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What's The Point Of Prayer?

Debate Information

Prayer plays a large role in Christianity. Jesus repeatedly (Matthew 21:21-2, Luke 11:9-13, John 14:13-4) said that prayer can achieve anything, even move mountains into the sea. Then why are prayers so rarely answered? Think of those who are sick and people pray for them, but they die anyway. Some argue that this is because God is mysterious and has his own plan. If so, then what is the point of prayer? If God has a plan that can’t be changed then prayer is useless. If his mind can be changed (really, it only takes one person’s request to change the mind of the master of the universe?) then why doesn’t it work more often? There are millions of sick, injured, poor people in desperate conditions, if God can help some of them, why can’t he help all of them? Isn’t he all-powerful?

Why would a perfect God be influenced by prayer when by definition he knows what he is doing better than we do and knows exactly what is going to allow to happen in the future. Why would a god change his mind? The concept of prayer is quite literally insane if you also believe in a God that knows everything. He knows in advance that you are going to pray, and of course, he knows how he is going to answer it!  Why on Earth do people actually think that a god will change his behavior as a result of someone mumbling a few words?

Has anyone noticed the correlation between the number of people who are saved from death thanks to prayer and the quality of that country’s hospitals? The most religious part of the world (Africa) where presumably the most praying occurs, is also the place where life is hardest, with disease, poverty, war and famine. Whereas the most secular part of the world (Europe) is where people live the longest and are the richest.

Prayer lulls believers into a false sense of accomplishment. Praying simply makes the person saying the prayer pretend they are helping so as to feel better about themselves.  We cannot solve our problems – much less the world's – through prayer. We often see people with good intentions praying for victims in the wake of a tragedy, but prayer is useless without action, and those actions make the prayers irrelevant.  "Thoughts and prayers" are often used as an excuse for actually DOING something to effect change.




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  • pamelajohnson1pamelajohnson1 113 Pts   -  

    Prayer plays a large role in Christianity. Jesus repeatedly (Matthew 21:21-2, Luke 11:9-13, John 14:13-4) said that prayer can achieve anything, even move mountains into the sea. Then why are prayers so rarely answered?    

    Most People pray when they need something.  And only when they need something. For Example: They pray to get well from a sickness, soon as they are well, they go right back to their sins.  That's the only reason they pray.

    Think of those who are sick and people pray for them, but they die anyway. Some argue that this is because God is mysterious and has his own plan. If so, then what is the point of prayer? 

    We pray because it is a way to connect with God. Some die because it is their time to go. Some die because the one who pray for them is weak in God, has not connection with God.  God has a deaf ear to that prayer.  We don't live forever. We will all die some day.

     If God has a plan that can’t be changed then prayer is useless. If his mind can be changed (really, it only takes one person’s request to change the mind of the master of the universe?) then why doesn’t it work more often? There are millions of sick, injured, poor people in desperate conditions, if God can help some of them, why can’t he help all of them? Isn’t he all-powerful?

    Why would a perfect God be influenced by prayer when by definition he knows what he is doing better than we do and knows exactly what is going to allow to happen in the future. Why would a god change his mind? The concept of prayer is quite literally insane if you also believe in a God that knows everything. He knows in advance that you are going to pray, and of course, he knows how he is going to answer it!  Why on Earth do people actually think that a god will change his behavior as a result of someone mumbling a few words? 

    It has to do with your connection to the father.  Do you have certain relatives that only come around when they need something?  Those, you are not loyal too.  They are users.  God is not intimidated by us and is going to let us use him like he is a weak parent that gives in to whatever their kid wine about.

    Has anyone noticed the correlation between the number of people who are saved from death thanks to prayer and the quality of that country’s hospitals? The most religious part of the world (Africa) where presumably the most praying occurs, is also the place where life is hardest, with disease, poverty, war and famine. Whereas the most secular part of the world (Europe) is where people live the longest and are the richest.

    Prayer lulls believers into a false sense of accomplishment. Praying simply makes the person saying the prayer pretend they are helping so as to feel better about themselves.  We cannot solve our problems – much less the world's – through prayer. We often see people with good intentions praying for victims in the wake of a tragedy, but prayer is useless without action, and those actions make the prayers irrelevant.  "Thoughts and prayers" are often used as an excuse for actually DOING something to effect change. 

    There is power in prayer.  The person doing the prayer has to be connected to God.  These people live God day and night. 24-7.  All the time.  They have put on the full Armor of God. Know how to pray to counsel demonic attacks.  There are sicknesses that are demonic attacks.  They have to know how to lay hands on someone and pray in Jesus name and that person will recover.


  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold ; Prayer for the Christian is intimacy with our Lord...our very best friend and confidant in Time and Eternity. Prayer to the natural man seems ridiculous and laughable but prayer to the one who is in covenant relationship with our Creator is a time of "rest" and "peace" that surpasses understanding. Prayer is a gift to the redeemed in Jesus Christ as prayer is our intimate time with the One who loves us and gave Himself for us.

     
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -  
    @pamelajohnson1
    @RickeyD
    It's just your imagination. 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold ; If it's just my imagination...let it be...it is my peace.


  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Peace?

    @RickeyD
    You don't seem to be at peace at all.  You partake in rabid, toxic evangelizing and proselytizing. 
    JoeKerrdallased25Plaffelvohfen
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    Might depend on the person. A Christian lady I talked to recently compared prayer to meditation (which many non-religious people partake in): she does not pray hoping for some kind of a divine intervention, but sits with her thoughts and contemplates things, or just seeks inner stillness. The "prayer" element of it is just a means of maintaining concentration and focus.

    I am not sure why such a means is required, but, perhaps, it works for some people better than its absence.
  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD
    You don't seem to be at peace at all.  You partake in rabid, toxic evangelizing and proselytizing. 
    I was about to say the same thing before I saw your post. Ricky acts like he's very unhappy in life, constantly posting, calling people evil and making judgments against people he's never met. He's a very miserable person. 
    JulesKorngoldPlaffelvohfen
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 ; RickeyD has been commanded to speak the Truth concerning what the Holy Spirit has said...RickeyD does not depend upon this life in this World for happiness but simply desires to please my Lord; therefore, I tell you the Truth in hopes that maybe one will turn and find life in the Kingdom of God. One' man's happiness is not another man's
    happiness.


  • JoeKerrJoeKerr 241 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD
    It's a good job you don't do what you do in order to make a living.
    Your sales pitch and presentation are enough to scare off any potential convert.
    Some more gentle critics might say you are the way you are because you are full of self-righteousness.
    I am more inclined to say it is because you are full of sh--it!

    Plaffelvohfen
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @JoeKerr ; Thanks Joe.
  • JoeKerrJoeKerr 241 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Thanks Joe.

    @RickeyD
    No problem, but please try and lighten up a little. What is the point of going through life
    thinking everyone is evil and satanic? Do you really believe that the people you accuse of being evil and satanic, saying that they fill you full of loathing, will accept what you say?
    What I also find rather sad is that you say you don't care. That makes an already difficult task for you even more difficult. Just saying!

  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    @dallased25 ; RickeyD has been commanded to speak the Truth concerning what the Holy Spirit has said...RickeyD does not depend upon this life in this World for happiness but simply desires to please my Lord; therefore, I tell you the Truth in hopes that maybe one will turn and find life in the Kingdom of God. One' man's happiness is not another man's
    happiness.


    You mean "RickyD speaks on behalf of god, and because I believe that, I could not possibly be wrong in everything I say, including judging others and calling them evil, because since I am speaking for god, I am truly the one making the judgments and cannot err." That's what you really mean to say. 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -   edited May 3
    @JoeKerr I tell you what the Holy Spirit has provided in Scripture...I am not suggesting I'm worthy of God's trust in me...why He would give me the time of day...I do not know...but I share with you the Truth and if my words are coarse and to the point...I'm just an old Marine Infantryman, retired Cop...kind of hardened by life and what I've seen...I am what I am and truly don't want to be something I'm not to appease anyone. If my words were my "opinion"...I would relent and be politically correct and theologically impotent...but I would then be unfaithful...I would rather you be insulted by my "style" and at least consider what my Lord has said than swept up by fluff and die in Hell. 
  • bjinthirtybjinthirty 109 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD

    in 2016 students from a university teamed up with a group of some of the best scientists around the world specializing in electro magnetic fields conducted new research studies on energy fields with new technology not available before.

    The team traveled to a church while it was still during mass. Researchers conducted tests from the church during mass session and discovered that outside the church while people were inside chanting and praying during mass, the energy field from the outside of the church expanded enormously in creating a field of energy. After mass the researchers conducted the same tests and determined that during mass or people praying in huge numbers, the is a definite creation of electromagnetic energy field being created by praying. 


    So whats the purpose of prayer?

    I believe praying is not to god, but to the universe. God is the universe and many people misinterpret god for a being. When in fact god is universe.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @bjinthirty ; Interesting. God is not the Universe, Elohim created the Universe and it is under His authority. Irrespective of what might or might not have transpired outside of a Temple, Cathedral, Church...prayer is a personal conversation with our Creator through His Spirit that makes intercession for us. Prayer is conversation with our Creator who loves us and desires intimacy with those who entered into covenant relationship with Him through faith in Jesus as Lord. Worshiping that which is created as opposed to the Creator is heresy and eternally condemning lest one repent.


  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    Basically prayer for believers are mental masturbation. It's a way to believe you have some semblance of control over this world. There are those that claim it actually fulfills wishes and that their respective gods do physical things for them...like helps them get better when sick, or saves them from natural disasters, or in the most arrogant cases, believe it helps them win sports games. For others it acts more like a security blanket, making them feel "warm" and "good" because they actually believe a being is listening and looking out for them. In either case, the only actual apparent affect prayer has is on a person's mental well being. For those that believe that prayer can actually influence outcomes in reality, such as praying for rain, or for a sick person to get better....there's no demonstrable evidence that this happens, but very good evidence through prayer studies and the fact that not a single amputee has ever grown back a limb, or paralyzed person suddenly just healed....that prayers have no visible effect at all in fulfilling wishes. If you are gauging whether a person is "happier", after they pray though, or feel better in general for praying...then of course it has a purpose then...but it's all psychological, nothing more. 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -   edited May 3
    @dallased25 ;  Odd how the debased and perverse must relate all things to their sex organs. Prayer is conversation with our Creator...you don't understand this because your father, the Devil, does not care about you or love you...he just uses you and laughs as you'll suffer a fate similar to his in Hell (Revelation 20:10-15).


  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    @dallased25 ;  Odd how the debased and perverse must relate all things to their sex organs. Prayer is conversation with our Creator...you don't understand this because your father, the Devil, does not care about you or love you...he just uses you and laughs as you'll suffer a fate similar to his in Hell (Revelation 20:10-15).


    How utterly ironic. The term "mental masturbation", doesn't refer at all to a sex organ....so it is you who is perverse and inferring that. 

    Mental Masturbation is defined as: "Thought processes that only serve to satisfy oneself." It is slang, but this is the accepted definition. So it is actually VERY revealing that it is actually you who is obsessed with sex, not me, to read that term and think of a sex organ....LMAO! 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 Narcissism is narcissism...
  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    @dallased25 Narcissism is narcissism...
    You are a shining example of it for sure! You lie, believe you are incapable of error and speak as if you are god. 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 ; Prove anything I've told you is a lie.
  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    @dallased25 ; Prove anything I've told you is a lie.
    To you? Not possible because you believe you are incapable of error. For anyone else who's seen you in other areas lie about what the word atheism or atheist means, or evolution, or call people names, or call them perverse or evil....we know you are a and it's demonstrable by the evidence, but you deny history and the evidence because you are a narcissist and believe every word you speak is on behalf or or "from god", I can't imagine a more arrogant statement. 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 ;  I tell you the Truth and you reject it...you are perishing in your sin by the moment and the only way you will find life in Time and in Eternity is by repenting of your sin and trusting, with a sincere heart, that Jesus is your Lord and that He died for you...no arrogance, no narcissism...just truth in hopes that you choose life as opposed to death.


  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    @dallased25 ;  I tell you the Truth and you reject it...you are perishing in your sin by the moment and the only way you will find life in Time and in Eternity is by repenting of your sin and trusting, with a sincere heart, that Jesus is your Lord and that He died for you...no arrogance, no narcissism...just truth in hopes that you choose life as opposed to death.



    @RickeyD
    Thanks for proving my point. You proclaim truth, while having none and can never admit to a single error and pointing them out to you is a waste of time.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 ; If you believe what I have told you to be error...state your objection, your rebuttal with clarity and succinctness...I'll respond...please use the "reply" option so I know you've directed your rebuttal to me directly.
  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD
    The "truth" isn't some arbitrary thing you can just insist is true. If something is true it is demonstrable. You consistently claim that you have the truth and that the "holy spirit" has told it to you. You cannot hope to demonstrate this, yet you go on to say "you live in sin", "you will perish in the afterlife" and all these things that are completely unproven. 

    To claim these things are the truth you must do the following:
    1. Prove there is a holy spirit. Do not just claim "we know it", actually provide demonstrable, testable evidence that people can independently do on their own. 
    2. Prove there is an afterlife in the same way as above
    3. Prove there is a god and not just a generic one, but specifically the one you believe exists

    If you cannot do these things, then you must change your language and say "I tell you my opinion" and stop using the word "truth". Again, "truth" isn't something you insist upon, it is something you can provide facts and evidence for. Anyone can claim they have the "truth" and by the way, all religions do. All religions like Islam or Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, etc....all claim they have the "truth", yet all have conflicting answers. They all can't be "true", so there must be something to separate them besides faith and claims. That is where facts and evidence comes in. If none of them can provide it, then all of them are on the same level of having claims of "truth", without a shred of evidence. 

    So as of now your claim to "truth" is no better than any faith I listed of any other religion. Prove the things I asked of you, or stop abusing the word "truth". 
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 ; The ONLY Truth you will find in this temporary life constrained by Time and physics is that Truth found between Genesis 1 and Revelation 22...these are the words of our Creator given you so that you can know Him personally, love Him intimately, live with Him eternally. You will read and study and learn and believe and LIVE or you'll deny and walk in your flesh and die in your sin and die the "second death" in Hell.


  • dallased25dallased25 171 Pts   -   edited May 6
    @RickeyD
    See...all you do is insist that what you believe is true and you don't dare try to demonstrate it. I have read the bible cover to cover, it's actually what set my down the road to my deconversion FROM christianity. I grew up in a christian church, in a christian family, in a christian community, in a predominantly christian state. The words in the bible are flawed, which is why there is an entire field of apologetics to try and explain all the flaws as if they weren't anything but the imperfect writings, of imperfect men, written during a time of heavy mysticism and mythology. I read, studied and learned that the bible and the history of how it was compiled and the history of christianity is a mess. What you need to do is study beyond the bible, study the history of the early church, how the scriptures actually came about and who actually should receive the credit for the formation of the codex called the bible and for how much of canon came about. It's all....man made. Every bit of scripture screams of imperfection and man made. 

    So again, until you actually demonstrate, that these are anything but words than humans wrote, same as any other book on earth....I have zero reason to believe or to take you or what you say as "truth", just as you have zero reason to believe a Muslim when they say "pray to Allah or perish". 
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    RickeyD said:
    @dallased25 ; If you believe what I have told you to be error...state your objection, your rebuttal with clarity and succinctness...I'll respond...please use the "reply" option so I know you've directed your rebuttal to me directly.
    The error is not in your claims, but in your reasoning. Your entire argument is completely circular:
    1. If the Bible is true, then I am right.
    2. I am right, because the Bible is true.
    Your argument is completely disjointed from reality and exists in a different domain. No rebuttal is needed here, just as no rebuttal is needed when someone claims that they have murdered their victim because Sauron's ring influenced them. Ridiculous claims can be dismissed on the sole basis of their ridiculousness.
    dallased25Plaffelvohfen
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar ; My argument finds its origin in the Scriptures which you do not believe...that's not a circular argument but simply one that you disagree with based on your opinion. If you perish in unbelief, you will perish in Hell...this should concern you lest your heart is so calloused and your conscience so seared that you're beyond reaching.

     


  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited May 6
    @RickeyD

    Not everyone's thinking fundamentally origins in some belief. It is something deeply religious people tend to assume based on the thinking they themselves exhibit, but this is an unjustified projection.

    I neither "believe" nor "disbelieve" in any scripture. I do not think in these terms at all. I take every statement critically and do not assume it to be either true or false, but look for logic and evidence behind it. It may be a circular process in the sense that I accept this process as sort of an axiom - but it is not an axiom that appears out of thin air, but one that makes sense empirically and to which I see no viable alternatives.

    Your argument is precisely circular because you start with your belief, and then derive your belief from itself. You call those who disagree with you "ignorant" and "blind", implying that your belief corresponds to some hard knowledge and reality - while simultaneously admitting that you are relying fundamentally on a belief which by design, is not based on any hard knowledge or reality.

    Do not try to equate our types of thinking. It is not just a matter of disagreement, but fundamentally different approaches to epistemology. And my approach is objectively superior since it produces testable statements, while yours produces only circular arguments. Mine can objectively be connected to reality, while yours cannot. And my approach is not unique to me, but forms the basis of all sciences and technologies available at present. The very comment you are reading right now, as well as the one you will start writing in a moment in response, is only possible because millions of people systematically employer my approach. Whilst the millions who employed your approach in the past only produced totalitarianism and carnage.

    Lastly, you will be happy to know that Marxists who you loathe so much rely on a very similar approach to yours. Modern Marxists even openly state that reality is just a social construct. You would arrive at the same conclusion if you took your thinking to its logical end, putting you in bed with those savory folks. The main difference between Christian fundamentalists and Marxists is that the latter took this type of thinking much further than the former; the structure of their thinking is precisely the same.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -   edited May 6
    @MayCaesar ; My faith is not a social construct but one that has manifest through experiential relevance, now 65-years of observation and interaction and study. My argument or position appears to be circular to you because you're absent faith and the Holy Spirit is not yours...you are on your own and meandering into Hell without questioning or researching. The difference between Christians and Marxists is God realized by faith in Jesus and actuated in life through the Holy Spirit...a construct which HE has mandated, not man.


  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD

    Your argument is circular regardless of what faith I do or do not have. If I had faith and derived the conclusion that my faith is true from it, then my argument would also be circular.

    As for Marxists, they have their own god which is the proletariat. It is an entity that, just like god, cannot be clearly defined, just like god, has no evidence of existing, just like god, speaks with its worshipers without actually speaking with them, just like god, is derived solely from a holy book ("Das Kapital" in their case) - and, just like god, is put above the interests of any individual. Marxists even have churches which are buildings in which communist groups and parties conglomerate.
    Had you grown up not in a community of Christians, but in a community of Marxists, you would be arguing in favor of the Marxist god with a similar conviction and using similarly structured arguments.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar ; As an Atheist, you have greater faith than I do as a Christian...you're simply absent "saving" faith. As for the Atheist, they too have their own god, Darwin and their narcissistic lust. 99.9% of Marxists are Atheists-Secular Humanists and this is why God is forbidden in the strictly Marxist societies...much like China.


  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD

    Oh yes? And what faith do I have? Do tell.

    Darwin is not my god; he was just a scientist who developed some good ideas, but also made some mistakes. I do not have any gods and worship only myself - but I am no god and do not pretend to be. I do not follow any "holy books", and my ideas are not second hand, but are a product of my personal critical thinking. I hold many positions that almost nobody else holds and that you will not find in any organized philosophy or religion.

    Compare all of this to yourself and your fellow Christian fundamentalists and Marxists - and then tell me more about how we just have different beliefs and that closes the discussion.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -   edited May 7
    @MayCaesar ; You have faith that our intricate Universe, Earth, our complex genome is the resultant of chance, perhaps a cosmic soup that somehow formed from nothing and became something by inexplicably forming a simple cell and subsequent millions or billions of years this simple cell through speciation, descent with modification, "evolved" into all the complexity of life we see around us...this requires infinitely more "faith" than believing what the Scriptures tell us. You are one with the Marxist and you're headed to a fate in Hell similar to the Marxist as you're rejecting the only Way to life provided you by faith in Jesus Christ...you are servant of the Devil and you will suffer a fate similar to his lest you repent (Revelation 20:10-15)...there is ZERO differentiation between you, the Atheist and the Marxist...only politics. You serve a "religion" of death and hopelessness.




  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited May 7
    @RickeyD

    No, I do not have such faith. I simply see these claims as aligning well with evidence found in this physical universe, while their rejection as not aligning with it. It is a result of actual scientific inquiry and studies through rigorous application of logic and scientific method; "faith" or "belief" do not enter the equation anywhere.

    On the other hand, your world view does require belief and faith; without them, through careful study of the world around us, not even the craziest madman can come up with the Biblical stories and see them as the best model of the history of this Universe. You are in bed with Marxists, my friend, and systems built around your world view (such as those found in feudal Europe) are qualitatively quite similar to those Marxists and other socialists build (Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Communist China...). When you build your system around fantasies, people will inevitably question these fantasies, and the only way to preserve your regime is to crack down on those who disagree with you - which is precisely what Christian fundamentalists have always done whenever they could get their hands on the coercive power of the government. Why, as soon as the communist regime in Russia fell, the Russian patriarch quickly once again became one of the most powerful politicians in the country - and his successor a heavy influencer of the dear Putin who is currently being a naughty boy, showcasing where this kind of orthodoxy ultimately leads.

    I am frankly not sure which America I would rather live in: one overrun by the social justice psychos, or one overrun by old bearded men in black robes. Two different parts of the "insanity" spectrum.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar ; There is ZERO evidence supporting Evolution...never was, never has been, never will be. We've arrived at the stale point of he said, she said...I have told you Truth...you are created by an omnipotent Creator who possesses sovereignty over your life and your eternity and He has given His all to provide you a path to knowledge and love for Him with intimate relationship as the ultimate goal but you are one of many who has chosen self-righteousness over knowledge and truth...I can do nothing for you when you won't honestly consider the options. Have a good life...let's not waste our time.


  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD

    No, we have not. There are multiple species that have evolved before our very eyes, and you have to stick your head into the sand in order to be unaware of it. I have provided a clear argument on why your epistemological approach is inferior to the scientific approach, while you just keep saying in essence, "No, you are wrong, and I am right". You have not provided a single logical argument in favor of your position or against my position. 

    I realize that in religion repetition makes something true eventually, but that is not the case in the real world.

    Lastly, I am honestly considering the options. One option I have is to maintain my current approach - that has worked great for me so far and that has uplifted humanity from running around with spears to the modern world. Another option I have is to for no good reason assume that a random book from millions of books has been written by a hypothetical creature that has never been observed and the supposed properties of which contradict multiple known laws of the Universe - based on the claims of a random person on the Internet whose arguments are weaker than mine were when I was in kindergarten. Honest consideration of my options leads to a pretty clear choice. ;)
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar ; Speciation is NOT Darwinian evolution but a change within a KIND of animal in response to environmental conditions for the most part but these markers allowing the change were already coded by our Creator and activated by events that our omniscient Creator has already prepared for....what the Darwinist calls "evolution" is nothing more than adaptation within a KIND of animal.

    It has nothing do with right or wrong but in whom we choose to believe...you have chosen man and I have chosen God and we'll both see who is "right" in the coming days. You choose to reject a Book and a Savior and natural evidence that all point you to our Creator; therefore, you will be "without excuse" when you stand in the Judgment of the Condemned" (Revelation 20:10-15). Jesus Christ is your Creator and your Messiah who died for you and only He can provided you life.




  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited May 7
    @RickeyD

    No, humans' intervention literally produced new species never existing before, such as mules and various crop varieties. Some of these results were, in fact, known at the time the Bible was being written; perhaps, the writers understood better what they were talking about than you, a modern human who is not familiar with the basics that most kindergarten graduates are familiar with.

    No, I have not "chosen to reject the book". I have chosen to reject nonsensical claims with no logical arguments or physical evidence behind them in general; your claim is just one of the myriad I reject. I also reject claims made by Muslims, or communists, or Tolkienists, or the mentally ill guy on the street I saw today when waiting at a right light yelling something about the "aliens".
    The role of your little fantasy in my life is much smaller than you realize. I am only here for the entertainment, my friend, and oh do you provide!

    Also, what is with endless quotes? Speak with your own words, buddy. Stop using others' quotes as a crutch and have a bit of self-esteem.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar ; Mules, donkeys, zebras, these are from the Horse KIND...though the mule is generally sterile but these are examples of speciation within a KIND of animal. I'm not your "buddy"...we are very different people serving polar opposite Authorities. I am here to invite you to life and offer you an option to Hell...but you won't listen because you don't desire life...why should we continue this bantering...it profits neither of us and I do wish we would end it...I have room for one-more "mute"...will you be the one?
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited May 8
    @RickeyD

    What is the "horse kind"? This is not a scientific term.

    Everyone is my buddy, buddy. I believe this is also something the Bible teaches you - to treat everyone as if they were your friend - but many Christians are not very good at practicing what they preach.
    I also do not serve any authority; I am my own authority. This is a concept that might be unfamiliar to you, but it is clear as a summer sky to me.

    Oh, I do desire life and am living it fully. And when I finally am about to kick my legs, I will look back at my life and smile, knowing that I extracted every last drop of juice out of it. :)

    You do not need to ask me if you should mute me; you are an adult and can make this choice yourself. I only offer the experience of talking to me to others; those who do not want to partake in this experience are free not to.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar ; It is the classification given animals by our Creator...the same "kind" used repetitively by your god, Darwin.

    Charles Darwin himself used the term "kind" in its proper context.
    [p.34] -- "... the greyhound, bloodhound, terrier, spaniel, and bulldog, which we all know propagate their kind truly,"
    [p.94] -- "... would have the best chance of surviving and of procreating their kind?"
    [p.116] -- "... they will have a better chance of surviving and propagating their kind;"
    [p.154] -- "In treatises on many kinds of cultivated plants, certain varieties are said to withstand certain climates better than others;"
    [p.290] -- "... from being sterile, they cannot propagate their kind."
    [p.339] -- "... some of the higher animals, which propagate their kind much more slowly..."
    [p.356] -- "Yet these birds... they exist in infinite numbers and of many kinds."
    [p.522] -- "Some of the many kinds of animals which live on the beach..."
    -Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, P.F. Collier & Sons, 1909

    No, the Scriptures tell me to "hate evil"....I believe you represent evil.

    You're not living...you're simply existing while heading to a nihilistic eternity.

    I will mute you...bye.

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    @RickeyD

    Oh, but we are talking about science here, not about your "creator". Darwin is not my god, and Darwin's classification of species was based on a very limited knowledge and has since then been refined significantly.
    Contrary to your claims about Darwin being someone's god, every reasonable scientist and a person having proper respect for science agrees that Darwin was wrong on many accounts. Can you say that your god has been wrong on many accounts? Here lies one of the differences between our approaches.

    Oh, I am certainly living. Which is why I do not feel the need to label anyone as evil or mute anyone. ;) Words that I dislike or disagree with do not bother me and do not affect my happiness. You could have the same state of unperturbed serenity and happiness had you developed a proper life philosophy - but your religion interferes with any possible process of such development.
  • @JulesKorngold

    Prayer is a simple human cost in the instruction of basic learning of speach and thought... as well as singing.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87 ; Not sure what you're smoking...but it must be expensive.
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