old theory becoming new again. - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com - Debate Anything The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com
frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

DebateIsland.com is the largest online debate website globally where anyone can anonymously and easily debate online, casually or formally, while connecting with their friends and others. Users, regardless of debating skill level, can civilly debate just about anything online in a text-based online debate website that supports five easy-to-use and fun debating formats ranging from Casual, to Formalish, to Lincoln-Douglas Formal. In addition, people can improve their debating skills with the help of revolutionary artificial intelligence-powered technology on our debate website. DebateIsland is totally free and provides the best online debate experience of any debate website.





old theory becoming new again.

Debate Information

. recently i have been seeing news articles in where science have been suggesting that the universe IS conscious. This is not to say that the universe is a thinking being; rather that consciousness is intertwined with space just the same as time is.  This would suggest that such consciousness pervades all matter, giving awareness to the living matter that is capable of such.  what do you think? 



Debra AI Prediction

Predicted To Win
Predicted To Win
Tie

Details +




Post Argument Now Debate Details +

    Arguments


  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @maxx ; I think the Universe is the result of a horrific war that was initiated in the Spiritual Realm before Time was created and the Universe, this Earth, created as a repository for that war and this Universe is matter void a conscience or ability to cognitively assess anything and will ultimately be destroyed by fire.

     
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    it is not what i asked nor has anything to do with my post @RickeyD
  • RickeyDRickeyD 770 Pts   -  
    @maxx My apologies.

  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    no problems  just stick to the subject at hand @RickeyD
    RickeyD
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    however @RickeyD
  • BoganBogan 55 Pts   -  
    Sounds like complete to me.  Who dreams up this rubbish?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • BoganBogan 55 Pts   -  
    Sounds like complete to me.  Who dreams up this rubbish?
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    To clarify, this is just one of the myriad of hypotheses, and it is a very tenuous one: it is hardly testable and mostly constitutes an attempt to construct a physical model of consciousness that does not contradict the observations, not necessarily one that well aligns with them. I would not say that "science has been suggesting" that, as there is not a single piece of evidence known in favor of this hypothesis.
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -   edited May 7
    i fail to see where classical theories actually explains consciousness.   electrical activity in the brain doesnt produce it any more than the electrical activity in a radio creates the voice.  the idea does not mean that the universe is or has consciousness, rather there is a field that permeates all matter, and that living matter can use this field in a way that produces consciousness . @MayCaesar
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
     h @maxx
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
    . recently i have been seeing news articles in where science have been suggesting that the universe IS conscious. This is not to say that the universe is a thinking being; rather that consciousness is intertwined with space just the same as time is.  This would suggest that such consciousness pervades all matter, giving awareness to the living matter that is capable of such.  what do you think? 
    I would suggest that all particles of matter are conscious of the environment in which they exists.  Just like us, if our environment affects us, we are affected and react to it.  If any particle of matter is affected by it's environment, it also reacts to it.  Consciousness can be defined as the state of being aware of one's surroundings.  We know that an entity is aware of it's surroundings when it reacts to it's surroundings.  Everything in the universe reacts to it's surroundings.
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    not exactly; just living matter is aware. as well, the idea states that consciousness is a field that does not move but is simply part of the universe as time is.  for example, a bad analogy. imagine an ocean where the water does not move, this ocean is all there is for it is also part of the universe.  when this ocean permeates live matter, awareness is used by the life.  this field also permeate all non living matter as well, but it can not ue it of course. when a living form dies, the field of consciousness does not leave for it has no where to go; it simply is suddenly permeating a non living form.@Sonofason
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
    not exactly; just living matter is aware. as well, the idea states that consciousness is a field that does not move but is simply part of the universe as time is.  for example, a bad analogy. imagine an ocean where the water does not move, this ocean is all there is for it is also part of the universe.  when this ocean permeates live matter, awareness is used by the life.  this field also permeate all non living matter as well, but it can not ue it of course. when a living form dies, the field of consciousness does not leave for it has no where to go; it simply is suddenly permeating a non living form.@Sonofason
    So you are telling me that a positively charged particle has no awareness whatsoever of a negatively charged particle?  If that is the case, why do positively charged particles react to negatively charged particles?  
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    if i were to say attraction, do not mistake that word for an emotion.  just as metal fillings interact with a magnetic field.  IF  you wish to state that such particles are alive such as protons and such, then the field of consciousness is simply there for it to use. brains, nerves cells are receptors for this field @Sonofason
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
    if i were to say attraction, do not mistake that word for an emotion.  just as metal fillings interact with a magnetic field.  IF  you wish to state that such particles are alive such as protons and such, then the field of consciousness is simply there for it to use. brains, nerves cells are receptors for this field @Sonofason
    Not all living entities have nerve cells and brain cells.  Is a virus alive, or is it not.  You can give your subjective opinion on that if you want, based on someone else's subjective opinion of what life requires, but I do not believe all concepts are defined appropriately.  You are a conglomeration of matter, following the laws of physics.  You are doing nothing in your life that particles of your body would not be doing anyway if they were subjected to the environment in which they find themselves.  Hence, you have consciousness.  It doesn't come from your brain.  To which you should see that I am agreeing with you for the most part.
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    i could care less about what makes up life, i am simply saying that this field is what gives it consciousness. how else can i explain it. this field of energy is intertwined with the universe.  imagine a huge aquarium of jello.  it is spread evenly throughout the universe.  this jello( field of energy or consciousness permeates everything. @Sonofason
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -   edited May 8
    maxx said:
    i could care less about what makes up life, i am simply saying that this field is what gives it consciousness. how else can i explain it. this field of energy is intertwined with the universe.  imagine a huge aquarium of jello.  it is spread evenly throughout the universe.  this jello( field of energy or consciousness permeates everything. @Sonofason
    Indeed, In physics, aether theories  "propose the existence of a medium, a space-filling substance or field as a transmission medium for the propagation of electromagnetic or gravitational forces." I am quite interested in the subject.

    Light is not a particle, it is a high frequency wave propagating through a medium.  I do not doubt that the electromagnetic waves of consciousness might also propagate through this medium.  But a given moment of consciousness would not be in all places at all times.  It would need time to propagate as do all other waves.  Unless you are proposing that the consciousness is the medium, and to that I do not agree.
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    actually light is considered both a wave and a particle; however that has nothing to do with my post.as for this field, it is not consciousness in itself. it is just energy that permeates the universe. we can not see this or measure it, yet the theory states that this energy is what living forms use to have consciousness;  another bad analogy, if  a radio is a life form, radio waves it picks up is this field; except the radio waves are everywhere  @Sonofason
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
    actually light is considered both a wave and a particle; however that has nothing to do with my post.as for this field, it is not consciousness in itself. it is just energy that permeates the universe. we can not see this or measure it, yet the theory states that this energy is what living forms use to have consciousness;  another bad analogy, if  a radio is a life form, radio waves it picks up is this field; except the radio waves are everywhere  @Sonofason
    If the light coming from the sun is partially a wave, then exactly what is the wave aspect of light propagating through?  What is the medium?
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    space is the medium and i do not think space is empty.  it depends on the size ratio as most know; which is why the more massive an object, the more the object will distort and manipulate the medium.  now can you return to the subject? @Sonofason
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
    space is the medium and i do not think space is empty.  it depends on the size ratio as most know; which is why the more massive an object, the more the object will distort and manipulate the medium.  now can you return to the subject? @Sonofason
    That'd be great...so you said, "recently I have been seeing news articles in where science have been suggesting that the universe IS conscious."
    Yeah, we discussed that.
    Then you said, "This is not to say that the universe is a thinking being; rather that consciousness is intertwined with space just the same as time is."
    Yeah well, everything is intertwined with space and time right?  Otherwise nothing would exist in space and time.
    Then you said, "This would suggest that such consciousness pervades all matter, giving awareness to the living matter that is capable of such."
    I'd like to know where you think this consciousness comes from, and what it consists of.


  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    i never said it was consciousness; i said it was a field of energy that living matter adapts and uses; turning it into consciousness;  as to where it came from; it came with and were the universe came from.  it existed just like time and space.  @Sonofason
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  

    Where shall I go from your Spirit?

    Or where shall I flee from your presence?

    If I ascend to heaven, you are there!

    If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

    If I take the wings of the morning

    and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,

    even there your hand shall blead me,

    and your right hand shall hold me.

    (Psalm 139: 7-10)

  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  

    that they should seek God, 

    and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him.

    Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,

    for In him we live and move and have our being

    (Acts 17:27-28

  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    "The eyes of the Lord are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good." (Proverbs 15:3)
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    "Am I only a God nearby," declares the Lord,
    "and not a God far away?  Who can hide in secret places so that I cannot see them?" declares the Lord.
    "Do not I fill heaven and earth?" declares the Lord.
    (Jeremiah 23:23-24)
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    well that was lame.. thanks for the debate  @Sonofason
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -   edited May 8
    maxx said:
    well that was lame.. thanks for the debate  @Sonofason
    Hard to have a debate when there has been no evidence to refute.
    Although, I do believe I have lain down a few verses of scripture that show that you are absolutely correct.
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    i never claimed to have evidence of any sort; i said it was an old theory  that is returning.  i could post a link where science has a strong idea about how consciousness  is and stemming from the micro world of quantum mechanics;  yet that is only the root of the original idea  @Sonofason
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    We are a far cry from having objective proof that we live in an "idealist universe".  
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    i suggest you lookl up and read the theory; it has nothing to do with the universe being conscious; rather that, there is a field of energy that living matter uses to become conscious @piloteer
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -   edited May 9
    @maxx

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-consciousness-pervade-the-universe/

    I beg to differ. The "theory" which you refer to is panpsychism, and it most certainly does claim that matter does have a consciousness, albeit a simplistic experience. Therefore, it is "Objective idealism, which proposes the existence of an objective consciousness that exists prior to and independently of human consciousness, thus the existence of the object is independent of human perception."
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -   edited May 9
    no its not.  there is another one that has nothing to do with the universe  being a conscious entity.  i just refers to the field that permeates all matter. perhaps yopu should read  the by-play between sonofason and i first. Consciousness as a state of matter - ScienceDirect  @piloteer
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
    i fail to see where classical theories actually explains consciousness.   electrical activity in the brain doesnt produce it any more than the electrical activity in a radio creates the voice.  the idea does not mean that the universe is or has consciousness, rather there is a field that permeates all matter, and that living matter can use this field in a way that produces consciousness . @MayCaesar
    They do not. This theory potentially does - however, being able to explain something is not sufficient in science: this explanation also has to be falsifiable in principle, otherwise it is practically useless and, therefore, irrelevant scientifically. This appears to be the case with this theory: "there is energetic field interaction of matter with which produces consciousness" still does not really explain what consciousness is and how it can be directly measured, it merely proposes a generic mechanism for something which has not been properly defined. It is like the "invisible unicorn" theory: it does explain something, but it does not explain anything of consequence.

    Fields themselves are physical abstractions. "Gravitational field" is not something that can directly be measured - rather, its effects can be measured. But those effects do not, in principle, have to be associated with any field and can be fit with an infinity of models that do not contain any fields. Effects themselves are not an abstraction, but the field they are associated with is.

    It is possible that consciousness is, in principle, not a scientific concept, precisely because there does not appear any direct way to measure it. In fact, the solipsistic model according to which I am the only being in the Universe that has consciousness and everyone else is just a robot behaving as if they had consciousness may very well fit the data just as well as the old theory you are talking about.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -  
    maxx said:
     perhaps yopu should read  the by-play between sonofason and i first. Consciousness as a state of matter - ScienceDirect  @piloteer
    Sigh. So now I gotta read through ALL the posts to get the correct topic of the discussion? Kids nowadays. In my time, we used to put that information right up at the top. I guess I'm just old. 
  • BarnardotBarnardot 133 Pts   -  
    If you’ve been seeing news articles about the universe having a conscience then I reckon you need to get some glasses or may be you didn’t read the whole thing where it says that the universe has a conscience is total baloney but then there would not be a news article that says that something that is dum is baloney. So I reckon you just got it all wrong about what you saw and if anyone thinks things like that then they must be unemployed because they have too much time and start thinking real dum stuff.@maxx
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    perhaps you need to read this entire thread.  i never said that the universe is or has consciousness. i said that the theory is that there is a field of energy intertwined with space time that permeates all matter, giving consciousness to the life forms capable of it. @Barnardot
  • BarnardotBarnardot 133 Pts   -  
    I read your thread but you didn’t say any thing about my post and said some thing about nothing to do with any thing any way. So you know what I said but you don’t want to admit that I caught you out talking about a whole heap of baloney because it was written no where was it? See you got caught out totally. @maxx
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    The theory says that there is a field of energy that is interwoven with time space and permeates all matter and gives consciousness to living forms capable of it. @Barnardot
  • BarnardotBarnardot 133 Pts   -  
    So what about the theory like the theory you made up you mean about conscience which is so much dog mess it’s not funny @maxx
  • maxxmaxx 858 Pts   -  
    it is pretty sad if you can not find this yourself.  physicists lately have been suggesting that consciousness is created and begins at the quantum level. IF this is so, then then this field would have to permeate the entire universe simply because the micro world is everywhere through out the universe. @Barnardot
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
© 2021 DebateIsland.com, all rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch