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Why did Elohim create the Heavens, the Earth, the human genome?

Debate Information

This article will respond directly to the following questions:

  1. Why is there something as opposed to nothing?

  2. What’s gone wrong in the cosmos?

  3. Is there any hope?

  4. How will history end?

  5. What is the role of the Abrahamic Religions in Time and Eternity?

  6. Who is the Creator of the Universe, Time and Life?

  7. Is the god of Islam i.e. Allah, the same God of Judaism/Christianity?

Introduction

As the years of our lives pass with incredible haste and memories are blurred by the thief of Time we often neglect to stop and ponder “why” is there “something” as opposed to “nothing?” Why is there life and why is there such intricacy and symmetry in our Universe? Surely, the origin of matter that forms our Universe extending downward to the complexity of the human genome is not the culmination of Time+Chance+Matter? If not, then why am I here constrained within this realm of Time?

Following, is a brief, condensed, summation of years of contemplation, study, listening, reasoning, all provided by the grace of God the Father through His Holy Spirit. You may disagree and your rebuttal is welcome. So then, why are you and I existing in Time…what is our purpose and is there a Plan? If so, who, what, where, when, why and how?

in-the-beginning

In the Beginning, God – Why?

There are multiple pillars of Truth upon which our Creation in “Time” finds its relevance, its purpose.

Part I provides a brief overview of our Creator’s plan and purpose for Time, Earth, LIFE.

Part II provides an overview of Islam, Allah, Muhammad, Ishmael and their relevance in the cosmic struggle that has manifest in Time.

Note: A brief list of supporting Scripture for Part I are posted in the addendum.

**********

“the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”  1 John 3:8 (NASB)

“For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.”  Romans 9:28 (KJV)

Part I

1) The Creator of LIFE, the Universe, has identified Himself as Jesus Christ (Elohim-Yeshua) and He desires a relationship with His created beings, both Angelic and Human (John 1; John 3:16).

2) Relationship, one that is manifest in purity and authenticity, mandates volition, free-will, the ability to choose to love or to hate; otherwise, relationship is robotic and thus impotent. Our Creator has provided His created beings, both Angelic and Human, with free-will, the ability to “choose” Jesus Christ as Lord or reject Jesus Christ and serve Satan by default. Those who reject our Creator will be “without excuse” at their judgment in Eternity for our Creator has provided extant empirical evidence relevant to His existence, His reality and dominion “through what has been made.” (Romans 1:18-32)

3) Our Creator is Spirit and though His abode is the Spiritual Realm, He transcends both the Spiritual World and Time for He is Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent (John 4:24; Psalm 139:7-12).

4) Our Creator is perfect HOLINESS, perfect JUSTICE, perfect RIGHTEOUSNESS; therefore, He will not permit the destructive presence of sin to dwell within His Eternal Kingdom (1 Peter 1:15-17; Revelation 21:27).

5) Our Creator was content in His relationship with His angelic beings but iniquity manifest in the Kingdom as a result of a rebellious Angel, Lucifer, who coveted the authority and dominion of our Creator (Isaiah 14:12-14; Ezekiel 28:11-15). A coup d’état followed as Lucifer introduced sin-iniquity into the Eternal Kingdom and one-third of the entire Angelic Realm followed Lucifer in his rebellion against our Creator’s dominion and authority (Revelation 12:4).

6) The Holiness and Justice of our Creator mandated swift and sure action in order to limit the destruction of sin in His Kingdom; therefore, Lucifer, along with the rebellious Angels, were cast out of the Eternal Kingdom (Luke 10:18; Ezekiel 28:11-14).

7) In order to deal with the rebellion of Lucifer, Lucifer’s sin and the rebellious Angels apart from the Heavenly Kingdom, our Creator subsequently spoke into existence the Realm of Time and within the constraints of Time He placed the Universe, Earth, Lucifer, Mankind (Genesis 1). Our Creator took elements from the Spiritual Realm that are not visible to senses i.e. life constrained by the Realm of Time and He formed those elements which are not seen in Time into matter which can be apprehended by life constrained by Time. It is this matter emanating from the Spiritual World that forms the basic building blocks of all things visible and invisible within the Realm of Time (Hebrews 11:3; Colossians 1:15-20; John 1; Genesis 1).

8) Our Creator, desiring to maintain volitional love with His faithful Angelic beings, set-forth a plan “before the beginning of Time” i.e. the Gospel of Jesus Christ to defeat Lucifer’s sin and rebellion with selfless and sacrificial LOVE as opposed to arbitrary punishment that would have undoubtedly destroyed volitional love, for if our Creator had simply destroyed Lucifer and the rebellious Angels for their coup d’état, the remaining two-thirds of the faithful Angels would no longer love their Creator out of volition but fear. Perfect love and relationship cannot manifest in fear (2 Timothy 1:10).

9) Our Creator placed Lucifer on the Earth and permitted him access to mankind who ultimately relented to Lucifer’s enticement of sin resulting in “The Fall” of mankind. Man’s rebellion to the authority and Covenant of God resulted in sin which corrupted the human genome; therefore, the wages of sin is death of the body and spiritual death. Mankind’s sin also resulted in a chasm, a fracturing of the intimate relationship between God and mankind that existed prior to Adam’s rebellion (Genesis 2; Genesis 3; Romans 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:22).

10) Our Creator entered into a covenant with mankind which indicated the seriousness of sin and the power of sin’s destruction in both Eternity and Time…our Creator pointed to the shed blood of innocence as the only acceptable payment for sin, for the “life” of God’s created beings within the Realm of Time is in the blood and only innocent blood is deemed as sufficient to forgive sin and redeem the fallen nature of mankind (Matthew 26:28; John 3:16; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

11) Seeing that only the blood of innocence could forgive sin, our Creator left Eternity and manifest in the Realm of Time approximately 2018-yrs ago in the Incarnation where He clothed Himself in flesh by being born of the seed of the woman through the Holy Spirit thereby circumventing the seed of the man which carries the culpability/sin-nature resulting from Adam’s rebellion against our Creator’s authority (Philippians 2:8: Galatians 4:4; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Romans 5:19).

12) Our Creator, for 33.5-years, walked among His Earthly creation and defined God to all who would receive His message of life, then our Creator submitted to the horrors of a Roman Crucifixion in order that His innocent blood would be shed and ultimately He experienced death, burial and resurrection thereby defeating sin, death, Hell and the Grave and ultimately Lucifer through selfless LOVE and sacrifice (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 10:5).

13) Our Creator established a New Covenant in His own blood stating that any man, woman or child who would trust in His death, burial and resurrection as payment for their sin would be forgiven of all sin, past-present-future and thus redeemed and made HOLY, acceptable to enter the Kingdom of God subsequent to the death of the body constrained by Time. In addition, our Creator infuses the Gift of the Holy Spirit into the life, the Earthly body of every believer as the Guarantor of His eternal relationship with everyone who trusts in Jesus Christ as LORD-God-Savior-Mediator (Ephesians 1:13; 1 John 2:27; John 14:16). This New Covenant AKA The Age of Grace will remain in effect until the Tribulation Period involving the Nation of Israel and the armies of Satan, represented by Allah/Islam and Islam’s allies, who do battle to destroy Israel and thereby attempt to nullify the promises of God to Abraham concerning the descendants of Jacob (Israel) (Zechariah 14:12; Revelation; Matthew 24).

14) Subsequent to the Tribulation period, Satan and his angles will be bound/made impotent for one-thousand-years during the Millennial Reign of Messiah-Jesus. Perfect peace and tranquility will reign upon the Earth as Jesus Christ rules from Jerusalem over all the Nations of the World (Revelation 20:1-10). The Millennial Reign and its peace and tranquility will further demonstrate to the faithful Angels in the the Kingdom of God that Lucifer/Satan is the father of lies, suffering, death and that sin must be thoroughly defeated via righteousness (Revelation 20:1-6; Isaiah 24:22; Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10; Isaiah 65). This truism will be confirmed at the end of the Millennial Reign of peace as Satan and his angels are released upon the Earth once again to deceive and destroy in unconscionable horror (Isaiah 24:22; Revelation 20:3; Revelation 20:7-10). It is our Lord Jesus Christ who will ultimately defeat Satan/Lucifer in this second-rebellion at which time Satan and his minions will be relegated to punishment in Hell forever (Revelation 20:9-10; Revelation 5:5).

15) To this end, our Creator will receive full acknowledgment from His Angelic Creation that Lucifer, the rebellious Angels, deserve eternal punishment in Hell subsequent to witnessing the pervasive, unconscionable destruction, carnage and death that manifest as the resultant of Lucifer/Satan’s lies, deception, hate, divisiveness while on Earth which are all the manifestation of SIN. Our Creator will receive praise and affirmation for having dealt with the rebellious Angel with such wisdom, love, compassion; this, while having maintained volitional love with those who honor, worship and adore our Creator as LORD.

16) It is plausible that our LORD is replenishing the vacuum/void in the Eternal Realm that was left as a result of Lucifer’s rebellion and the absence of the Angels who followed Lucifer in that rebellion. As evidenced within Time, our atmosphere abhors a vacuum and it is logical that when the number of rebellious Angels has been replenished by the redeemed/faithful of mankind, the end of the Age of Grace will manifest. Though mankind, in the resurrection, will NOT become Angelic, redeemed mankind will play an intricate role in serving our Creator in the Eternal Kingdom.

The Unfaithful and Judgment

Those who have rejected the saving grace of Messiah-Yeshua-Jesus will be brought forth from Hades-Sheol subsequent to the Millennial Reign of Messiah; these unfaithful will be adjudicated in accordance with their works, their deeds done in the body (The Great White Throne Judgment) and will be subsequently pronounced guilty for sin and will suffer a second death…a death of finality in the Lake of Fire/Hell and will cease to exist seeing that nothing impure will be allowed to enter God’s Kingdom (Revelation 20:11-15).

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Part II

ISLAM – ISRAEL – CHRISTIANITY

It is imperative that one understands the manifestation of the cosmic-Spiritual struggle between Lucifer and Yeshua and how said struggle has manifest in Time.

Allah v. Yeshua

Islam is most certainly an Abrahamic Religion as Islam finds its genesis in Ishmael born to Abraham through an adulterous relationship with Hagar. Ishmael is the progenitor of a people our Creator refers to as “wild donkeys” and it is through Abraham’s infidelity with Hagar that Lucifer-Satan has publicly introduced himself to mankind. It is important to note at this point that Ishmael is not the son of promise but only through Isaac born to Abraham and Abraham’s wife, Sarah, was the promise of Messiah-Yeshua manifest to the World.

Lucifer’s sin in the Kingdom was covetousness, for Lucifer passionately desired to be like the Most High and desperately desired God’s worship, authority, dominion. Lucifer, a beautiful cherub angel, coerced one-third of the entire angelic realm to follow him in a cosmic rebellion, a coup de taut, against our Creator, Jesus Christ-Yeshua; therefore, Lucifer and the rebellious angels (now demons) were removed from the Kingdom. Our Creator spoke into existence the realm of Time and within the constraints of Time, our Creator placed this Universe, Earth, mankind and Lucifer.

And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.” Gospel of Luke 10:18 (NASB)

jesus - satan - ezekiel 28 full scripture explaining satan in eden and with god and his fall in sin

It was in the Garden of Eden that the struggle between Yeshua and Lucifer/Allah was initiated and that struggle can be observed throughout the pre-flood and post-flood generations with its most virulent episode manifesting at the Crucifixion of Yeshua. It was not until the 7th-Century (622AD+-) that Lucifer publicly introduced himself through a pagan Moon-God (Allah) and the plagiarized writings of a murderer, thief and pedophile named Muhammad AKA Abū al-Qāsim Muḥammad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn ʿAbd al-Muṭṭalib ibn Hāshim (Born: April 22, 571 AD///Died: June 8, 632 AD, Medina, Saudi Arabia)

Important note before we continue: In Paul’s letter to the Church at Corinth, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Paul writes the following concerning Satan: “No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” (2 Corinthians 11:14, NASB)  Of the 360 gods worshiped at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity.  Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.  Is the Holy Spirit, in Paul’s letter to the Corinthian Church, identifying the god of Islam/Allah-Satan (a moon god) by referring to him as a disguised “angel of light”?  It’s interesting that the Moon is not actually a light but the Moon simply reflects the splendor of the Sun, the true light that lights the entire Earth. The Moon is a lesser light that governs the darkness (Genesis 1:16) and does NOT express the glory of the True Light. “Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, ‘I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.’” (John 8:12, NASB). Finally, in 2 Corinthians 4:4, Satan is described in this manner: “in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

It is through the way of Islam that Allah-Satan has received power, dominion, worship, as he fervently battles against the people of Yeshua i.e. the Jews and the Christians. Allah-Satan finds acceptance and legitimacy by touting the relationship of Islam with Abraham. Yeshua speaking concerning the attributes of Allah-Satan has warned us…

“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a and the father of lies.“  The Gospel of John 8:44 (NASB)

Allah-Satan conspired with Hitler and untold others to destroy the Jew, but Allah-Satan in his efforts to annihilate the Jewish people unwittingly inspired the “Never Again” movement and the Nation of Israel was reborn (1948); the struggle between Allah-Satan and Yeshua has exponentially increased subsequent to the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s prophecy (Ezekiel 34:13). It will ultimately be Islam-Allah-Satan and his allies, Russia-China-Arab coalition, that sparks the coming Apocalypse that will be a nuclear war initiated in Jerusalem, Israel. Yeshua will be victorious! 

“I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land.”  Ezekiel 34:13 (NASB)

Praise to God the Father for His all encompassing compassion and love and mercy. All glory and honor to Yeshua who is victorious over the Evil One and has set the captives free from death in sin and death in Hell via His love, faithfulness and mercy at the Crucifixion. Praise and worship and eternal gratitude to the Holy Spirit for His faithfulness, wisdom, intercession, tutelage and compassionate love with much patience. Amen!

Conclusion

Finally, all available evidence in Scripture leads to the conclusion that had Lucifer not rebelled, there would be absolutely no reason for the creation of Time, the Universe, Earth, Mankind or Hell.  This LIFE, constrained by Time, is nothing more than preparation for Eternity. Every man, woman, child has been provided a unique opportunity to take part in God’s Plan of redemption where our Creator is currently seeking those who will be faithful to serve Him throughout Eternity. The Key to finding life and purpose in Time and in Eternity is Jesus Christ and trusting in Jesus as your personal Savior and LORD…there is no other way for mankind to find righteousness (a right standing) before God the Father and there is no other way to find life in Eternity without Jesus Christ as your Mediator for sin.


PlaffelvohfenOakTownA



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  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    In order to prove that your god created the universe, you first have to demonstrate that your god exists. You have so far not been willing to provide any evidence that what you are saying is true.

    I have no idea what Part II has to do with the topic you posted, as all it seems to do is provide evidence as to why Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Do you actually read anything before posting it?
    Plaffelvohfendallased25
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; God has proven His existence through what He had made and placed before you. God has proven His reality through Jesus Christ who physically walked among us for 33.5-years. God has given you His written words, your "owner's manual" for life. You are "without excuse."


    OakTownA
  • dallased25dallased25 253 Pts   -  
    1. Why Is There Something As Opposed To Nothing? So far as science can tell, there was never "absolute nothing", even before our universe formed. This is an old misunderstanding of the big bang. Most scientists now believe that our universe is eternal and that our universe isn't the first, or only, or last. 

    2. What’s Gone Wrong In The Cosmos? Nothing, it operates imperfectly under natural laws. It is what it is. 

    3. Is There Any Hope? For individuals to discover for themselves, whatever that may be. I have more hope now as a non-believer, than I ever had as a christian. 

    4. How Will History End? With human arrogance. We concern ourselves far too much with ideologies, whether political, religious, social...and don't focus nearly enough on our survival. We are destroying ourselves actively and very few actually recognize that. The religious don't care because they care about the afterlife and the political are far too busy trying to stay in power. We are amazingly as a species and we will destroy ourselves. 

    5. What Is The Role Of The Abrahamic Religions In Time And Eternity? None. They all make unsubstantiated claims about things they can't possibly know or prove. Just more arrogance. 

    6. Who Is The Creator Of The Universe, Time And Life? None so far as we can tell. 

    7. Is The God Of Islam I.E. Allah, The Same God Of Judaism/Christianity? No, but they all share a common ancestor. Religions have evolved much like languages and everything else. All the ideas are not original and are mostly stolen from prior religions, cults, tribes and myths. 

    OakTownA
  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    For the millionth time, that is NOT EVIDENCE. If you can prove the Bible is true by using the Bible, then the Poetic Edas are true because the Edas say so, as is the Bhagavad Gita, and the Spider-Man comics.

    Now, what actual evidence to you have that the Bible is true, and your god exists.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; The Holy Spirit tells you that what Elohim has created IS evidence...simply because you disagree in order to soothe a seared conscience does NOT negate your culpability before our Creator. If you're truly so concerned...disprove what the Holy Spirit has said and placed before you in print, in nature, in Jesus. Find any other literature, any other Person, who defines the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning our existence in Time...


  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 ; Let's hear your explanation as why you are existing within Time.....
  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    So you have no actual evidence. Got it.
    "Find any other literature, any other Person, who defines the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning our existence in Time..."
    ALL creation stories to this; it's what defines a creation story. I posted at least one example in a previous debate when you asked for examples. 

    Why should I believe the Bible over any other religious text?
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; Nature and the Scriptures and Jesus ARE your evidence...simply because you reject them does not nullify their relevancy and your culpability before God. You're free to believe anything you choose but if Jesus is not your Lord and Mediator for your sin, you will die in Hell in that sin...this is why you should believe what the Holy Bible tells you.


  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    "Nature and the Scriptures and Jesus ARE your evidence"
    HOW? "Just look at the trees" is not an argument.

    "Jesus is not your Lord and Mediator for your sin, you will die in Hell in that sin...this is why you should believe what the Holy Bible tells you."
    That's not a reason. Why should I believe a religious text written several thousand years ago? And referring to Scriptures gives me no more reason to believe Christianity is true than referring to the Gitas as evidence that Hinduism is true.




  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; The Scriptures are "timeless" as their Author is Eternal...you will read them, study them, internalize them, and LIVE by them or you'll remain a sexually perverse, rebellious, spiritually ignorant, atheist and die in Hell....the choice is yours....I cannot make that choice for you....I can point to your Savior, you must be willing to pursue Him and trust in Him and receive a New Life in His Name, Jesus Christ.




  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    Once again, no proof. You are free to believe what you believe, but you are giving me no reason to believe as you do. Unlike you, I need something more that faith. Even if you could prove that the Bible is true, I would have difficulty worshiping someone who has ordered and committed genocide, orders that married women who are rapped in a city and don't "cry out" be stoned to death, and who is supposedly all knowing but doesn't know that rabbits don't chew their cud, or that companion planting is really good for not only the plants, but the soil.

  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; Elohim destroyed the Adamic and Noahic generations because of a world ideology practiced that you enjoin with your sexual perversity and atheism....Elohim sought a generation of people through whom He would bring forth His Messiah as a blessing to every family of the Earth (Genesis 12:3b) but the Adamic and Noahic generations were too defiled, corrupt, perverse, so Elohim destroyed them by water and began anew with Noah and his family (Genesis 6)...oddly enough, your perverse and corrupted ilk, led by the Devil, has corrupted the rainbow covenant given by Elohim to the World concerning The Flood...but if Elohim destroyed all but eight for their perversity and atheism, what will He do to those who reject the suffering of the Son for sin?

    An overview of the Adamic and Noahic generations and their sin...
    There is another mass genocide coming...and Jesus is the only Escape (Revelation 20:11-15).




  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    The Flood was only one genocide. You also failed to address any of my other points, like why an all knowing god would claim that rabbits chew their cuds, or ban people from planting two crops in one field, even though companion planting (i.e. planting multiple plants in one area or field) is much better for the plants and the soil. Also, how can a good god order that raped women be put to death because they were married, and that somehow counts as adultery?
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -   edited June 13
    @OakTownA ; "In the Mosaic Law, animals were divided into two broad groups: clean and unclean. Rabbits were placed in the “unclean” category, which means they could not be used as sacrifices and could not be eaten by the Jews. The rabbit’s “unclean” status was based on this description: “The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you” (Leviticus 11:6). This verse is often used as an example of an error in the Bible, since rabbits and hares do not chew cud.

    Rabbits definitely do not “chew the cud,” in the modern, scientific sense of that English phrase. That’s irrelevant, however, since the Bible was not written in modern English. What matters is what the translated phrase meant in Hebrew at the time it was written. What rabbits and hares do is called “refection” or “coprophagy,” and it involves re-digesting food after it passes out of the body (in other words, rabbits eat their own feces). Rabbits are also known to constantly move their mouths, in a motion that looks extremely similar to the chewing motion of cows and other ruminants. What’s described in Leviticus 11:6 is meant for simple identification, not detailed scientific analysis.

    The key phrase, in Hebrew, is alah gerahh. Alah is used extensively in the Old Testament, and means “to restore, take up, collect, recover, or regurgitate.” It’s used to describe the handling of money, swords, and even the Ark of the Covenant, so it doesn’t have to mean something biologically specific. The word’s broad usage doesn’t stop skeptics from claiming that the word absolutely must mean “regurgitate” and that Leviticus 11:6 is therefore a gigantic error.

    Gerah is only used in Leviticus 11, so, it’s more difficult to know exactly what it means. What is clear, however, is that rabbits, like ruminants, make a constant chewing motion, and, like ruminants, they re-digest their food (albeit through a different process). We also know that the description given is pretty easy to understand: rabbits “recover” food and make a constant chewing motion. But, since they do not have a split hoof, they are unclean.

    Skeptics sometimes spend an awful lot of time over-complicating issues that are actually fairly simple, and their misuse of Leviticus 11:6 is a common example of that very problem. There’s no error here. There’s no reason to cram a modern scientific explanation into the text. And there’s no cause to split hares, as it were. In reality, Leviticus 11:6 is just a simple description used for classification. God did not need to go into a lengthy tangent about the details of digestion. Rabbits indeed give the appearance of chewing cud. The biblical description says exactly what it needs to say in order for the Hebrew reader to get the point: rabbits chew, but they don’t have divided hooves, so they’re unclean, done.

    The bottom line is that, to the Old Testament, Hebrew-speaking people, alah gerah described the visible actions of both cows and rabbits (and hyraxes, Leviticus 11:5). In English, this phrase has been translated as “chewing the cud,” which means something slightly different to us, but it’s the closest we have. Any perceived inaccuracy here is caused by forcing meanings the original writer did not intend onto the words he used."  See:https://www.gotquestions.org/rabbits-chew-cud.html

    ______________________________________________

    "The Bible does address the issue of rape. As expected, when the Bible mentions the crime of rape, it is depicted as a gross violation of God’s design for the treatment of the human body (Genesis 34). The Bible condemns rape whenever it is mentioned. For example, there is a particular passage in the laws given to the nation of Israel before entering the Promised Land under Joshua’s leadership. This passage (Deuteronomy 22:23–29) spoke directly against forcing a woman into a sexual encounter against her will, or what we know today as rape. This command was meant to protect women and to protect the nation of Israel from committing sinful actions.

    Deuteronomy 22:23–27 gives guidelines on what constituted rape and specifies the punishment for a man who raped a betrothed woman. In a sexual assault, the betrothed woman was responsible to actively resist the rapist, if possible—she was to “scream for help” (Deuteronomy 22:24). If she failed to resist when she could have done so, the law viewed the situation as consensual sex, not rape, and both parties were guilty. If the assault took place in an isolated area, the law gave the woman the benefit of the doubt, assuming she had resisted her attacker, and she was not held culpable (Deuteronomy 22:27). The law stipulated that a rapist was to be killed by stoning (Deuteronomy 22:25). Though the Mosaic Law was for the nation of Israel during the time of Moses, the principle is clear that rape is sinful in the eyes of God and, under the law, led to the most extreme punishment possible—death for the rapist.

    There are some difficult passages in the Old Testament in relation to this issue. One is Deuteronomy 22:28–29, “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.” If the rape victim was not betrothed, then the rapist faced different consequences.

    We must see Deuteronomy 22:28–29 through the lens of ancient culture. In those days, social convention treated women poorly. They couldn’t own property. They couldn’t get a job to support themselves. If a woman had no father, husband, or son, she had no legal protection. Her options were slavery or prostitution. If an unmarried woman wasn’t a virgin, it was extremely difficult for her to get married. If she wasn’t marriageable, her father didn’t have much use for her.

    God’s punishment on the rapist of a virgin—a monetary fine and lifelong responsibility—was designed to deter rape by holding the rapist responsible for his actions. He ruined her life; it was his responsibility to support her for the rest of her life. This may not sound fair to modern ears, but we don’t live in the same culture they did. In 2 Samuel 13, Prince Amnon raped his half-sister, Tamar. The horror and shame of being violated yet unmarried made Tamar beg him to marry her (her half-brother!), even after he had rejected her. And her full-brother, Absalom, was so disgusted with the situation that he murdered Amnon. That’s how highly virginity in women was prized back then.

    Critics of the Bible also point to Numbers 31 (and similar passages) in which the Israelites were allowed to take female captives from nations they conquered. Critics say this is an example of the Bible’s condoning or even promoting rape. However, the passage says nothing about raping the captive women. It is wrong to assume that the captive women were to be raped. The soldiers were commanded to purify themselves and their captives (verse 19). Rape would have violated this command (see Leviticus 15:16–18). The women who were taken captive are never referred to as sexual objects. Did the captive women likely eventually marry amongst the Israelites? Yes. Is there any indication that rape or sex slavery was forced upon the women? Absolutely not.

    In the New Testament, rape is not mentioned directly, but within the Jewish culture of the day, rape would have been considered sexual immorality. Jesus and the apostles spoke against sexual immorality, even offering it as justifiable grounds for divorce (Matthew 5:32).

    Further, the New Testament is clear that Christians are to obey the laws of their governing authorities (Romans 13). Not only is rape morally wrong; it is also wrong according to the laws of the land. As such, anyone who would commit this crime should expect to pay the consequences, including arrest and imprisonment.

    To the victims of rape, we must offer much care and compassion. God’s Word often speaks about helping those in need and in vulnerable situations. Christians should model the love and compassion of Christ by assisting victims of rape in any way possible.

    People are responsible for the sins they commit, including rape. However, no one is beyond the grace of God. Even to those who have committed the vilest of sins, God can extend forgiveness if they repent and turn from their evil ways (1 John 1:9). This does not remove the need for punishment according to the law, but it can offer hope and the way to a new life."   https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-rape.html

    ______________________________________________________
    "Deuteronomy 22:9–11 reads, “Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled. Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together. Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.” These commands sound strange to us and cause many people to wonder why God would issue these kinds of laws.

    These commands are found in the larger context of Deuteronomy 22:9—23:18 that includes many commands related to the seventh commandment of not committing adultery. The broader concept is one of not mixing together what was to stay separated. The underlying emphasis of these specific commands is spiritual.

    Each of the three commands is about two different kinds: 1) two kinds of seed, 2) two kinds of animal, and 3) two kinds of yarn. The different seeds were not to be planted together; the different animals were not to plow together; and the different yarns were not to be interwoven.

    There may be some practical reasons for the commands to keep these things separate. First, the command against mixing two kinds of seed sounds very familiar to Jesus’ parable regarding the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24–30). In the parable, an enemy plants the weeds (likely darnel, a wheat-like weed) in order to ruin the crop. The only way to spare the wheat was to wait until the harvest and separate the wheat from the weeds. A farmer would not intentionally mix these two types of seed.

    Barring the yoking of an ox and donkey is more difficult to understand. Some interpreters understand the idea of “yoking” as a reference to crossbreeding the two animals (this is the emphasis in Leviticus 19:19). The command could also have been a means of preventing animal cruelty: an ox is much stronger than a donkey, and yoking the two together will quickly deplete a donkey’s strength. It is also important to note that the ox is a clean animal, while the donkey is unclean.

    The prohibition against wearing clothing mixed of wool and linen is also difficult to understand. Some suggest that the focus is on dressing in clothing distinct from the pagan cultures that surrounded the Israelites.

    Both spiritual and practical considerations were involved in these commands, as is often the case in the Mosaic Law. Even when the practical reasons are not fully clear, it is possible to find a spiritual purpose. God desires purity in His people, and there is to be no “mixture” between good and evil. “Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?” (2 Corinthians 6:14–15)."



    Your desperate search for justification for unbelief is obfuscation...your answers are readily available if you seek them...enjoy...



  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    "Rabbits definitely do not “chew the cud,” in the modern, scientific sense of that English phrase. That’s irrelevant, however, since the Bible was not written in modern English. What matters is what the translated phrase meant in Hebrew at the time it was written. What rabbits and hares do is called “refection” or “coprophagy,” and it involves re-digesting food after it passes out of the body (in other words, rabbits eat their own feces). Rabbits are also known to constantly move their mouths, in a motion that looks extremely similar to the chewing motion of cows and other ruminants. What’s described in Leviticus 11:6 is meant for simple identification, not detailed scientific analysis."
    Why couldn't your all powerful, all knowing god say something like "the rabbit is unclean because it eats it's feces.?" "Rabbits are also known to constantly move their mouths..." Categorizing rabbits as "chewing their cud" along with ruminants (it's worth noting that the author writes "other ruminants," implying that rabbits and hares are ruminants, which is false.) makes sense for primitive people who do no know better. It does not make sense for an all knowing god, who would not only know that 1. rabbits don't form or chew a cud, and 2. how to convey that rabbits are unclean without referring to chewing the cud.

    " 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them 1to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you."
    Not crying out does not mean that the person consented.
    The rapist could have a weapon, and will kill the person being rapped.
    The person being raped could experience  "toxic immobility," where the body effectively shuts down, so one cannot react in any way, even though they might want to. This is also sometimes referred to as "disassociating," and is what I experienced when I was assaulted.
    Regardless, I do not consider it any form of "good" to call for the execution of a rape victim. Nor is it "good" for a rapist to marry their  victim. I also think that the death penalty for adultery is pretty extreme.

    "“Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled."
    " The broader concept is one of not mixing together what was to stay separated."
    This does not address my point. Companion planting is good for the plant, the crop, and the soil, so why did your god ban it?
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; Your objections to the Hebrew Scriptures was responded too. Everyone of your objections and futile attempts to justify your path to Hell are easily attended to by a simple search if you truly desire knowledge; otherwise, you have no hope.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 644 Pts   -  
    Because he felt like it, is there something else that you think would have been a better use of his time? You don't seriously think that it's some great surprise that he didn't just spend eternity doing nothing?
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100 ; Actually, our Creator was quite content with His angelic creation until a rebellion manifest due to covetousness....if not for that rebellion, we would NOT exist.
  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    You, once again, have failed to address my points.
    "Actually, our Creator was quite content with His angelic creation until a rebellion manifest due to covetousness....if not for that rebellion, we would NOT exist."
    Was the rebellion planned? If I could see the future, and wanted a paradise, I wouldn't create Lucifer or do anything that would compromise my plan.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ;  God knew you would choose Satan over Him and choose to waste your life in lesbianism, bisexuality, adultery....and yet...He created you....
  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    But WHY? Why would god create a being that he knew would destroy everything he made, unless he wanted Lucifer to fall? You also have yet to provide any evidence that:
    1. Your god exists.
    2. The Bible is true
    3. The universe was:
         a. Created
         b. Created as described in Genesis

    Unless you do this, no one has any reason to believe you.

  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; Lucifer was Elohim's choice and one His most beautiful creations...there was not desire that Lucifer fall but that Lucifer commune with Elohim in intimacy and for eternity.

    The Bible is God's Truth...read it...there are no other viable options...


  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    "Lucifer was Elohim's choice and one His most beautiful creations...there was not desire that Lucifer fall but that Lucifer commune with Elohim in intimacy and for eternity. "
    Nice non sequitur. Please actually address my points:
    1. Do you believe your god knows everything, including the future?
    2. If so, why would he intentionally create a being that will lead to the destruction of everything he created? I wouldn't.

    Also, you failed to do anything but say "the bible is true because the bible says it's true." Do you honestly not see why this is problematic? In order for what you say to be true, you must demonstrate the following:
    1. Your god exists.
    2. The Bible is true
    3. The universe was:
         a. Created
         b. Created as described in Genesis
    You have not done so, therefore your argument fails.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA ; 1) God is omniscient; therefore, He knows the beginning from the end...

    2) God does not create an evil being...He created Lucifer in perfection, sinless (Ezekiel 28:15)....just as He did Adam...sinless, perfection.

    I have told you repeatedly that my God has provided you "evidence" for His reality through what He has made and placed before your eyes; evidence through the Scriptures; evidence through the Son, Jesus Christ; therefore, disprove God's reality by explaining the origin of matter...where did matter find its genesis?


  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    "God does not create an evil being...He created Lucifer in perfection, sinless (Ezekiel 28:15)....just as He did Adam...sinless, perfection."
    So? Did your god know that Lucifer would fall, and because of that fall, cause evil to come into the world?
    "I have told you repeatedly that my God has provided you "evidence" for His reality through what He has made and placed before your eyes; evidence through the Scriptures; evidence through the Son, Jesus Christ;"
    And I have not only told you but demonstrated why that is not evidence.
    "where did matter find its genesis?"
    Matter arose from the quantum particles that were created from the energy released from the Big Bang.
    And, yes, we have demonstrated this in the lab:

    Now, what NON BIBLICAL evidence do you have to support your claim?
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -   edited June 14
    @OakTownA ; Where did the Big Bang finds its energy to create matter?

    Excerpt: The Universe began not with a whimper, but with a bang! At least, that's what you're commonly told: the Universe and everything in it came into existence at the moment of the Big Bang. Space, time, and all the matter and energy within began from a singular point, and then expanded and cooled, giving rise over billions of years to the atoms, stars, galaxies, and clusters of galaxies spread out across the billions of light years that make up our observable Universe. It's a compelling, beautiful picture that explains so much of what we see, from the present large-scale structure of the Universe's two trillion galaxies to the leftover glow of radiation permeating all of existence. Unfortunately, it's also wrong, and scientists have known this for almost 40 years.

    "Harvard and NASA still don't know how the Universe exists:" https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/seuforum/bb_whycare.htm

    Excerpt: No one knows how the first space, time, and matter arose. And scientists are grappling with even deeper questions. If there was nothing to begin with, then where did the laws of nature come from? How did the universe "know" how to proceed? And why do the laws of nature produce a universe that is so hospitable to life? As difficult as these questions are, scientists are attempting to address them with bold new ideas - and new experiments to test those ideas.



  • OakTownAOakTownA 238 Pts   -  
    "Where did the Big Bang finds its energy to create matter?"
    1st Law of Thermodynamics:
    Energy is neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. This means the energy was all ready there, and has always been there. Where this energy comes from, we don't know.

    "The Big Bang wasn't the beginning after all" https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/09/21/the-big-bang-wasnt-the-beginning-after-all/?sh=721db9af55df"
    This article is behind a paywall, so I can't reply, as I can't read it.

    "Harvard and NASA still don't know how the Universe exists:" https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/seuforum/bb_whycare.htm
    Did you bother to read the entire article, or did you stop at the first paragraph? NOTHING in this article, which is from 2009, contradicts the Big Bang, or states that the Big Bang did not occur. In fact, it referrers the Big Bang as happening: "The most promising clue to our cosmic origins may be the tiny gravity waves set in motion during the Big Bang itself. "  Even if we did discover that the Big Bang did not happen, it would not prove creation. In order to prove that Biblical Creation occurred, you would need to demonstrate that:
    1. The universe was created.
    2. Your god exists
    3. Your god created the universe as stated in the Bible.

  • BoganBogan 79 Pts   -  
    Why did "Elohim" create Sagittarius A, a massive galaxy of two colliding 200 billion star galaxies with apparently no Christians living there?      
    OakTownA
  • pamelajohnson1pamelajohnson1 143 Pts   -  
    I would like to ask you a question?  What is your purpose on this site?  You cannot make these people turn to God.  They have told you time and time again, they don't want Jesus.  Jesus will not even try to force himself on them.  It's their choice, but you seem to think that if you keep pestering them, they will somehow see the light.  It's not of God to force yourself on someone.  That is not representing God, it's representing you. @RickeyD
    dallased25
  • RickeyDRickeyD 901 Pts   -   edited June 15
    @pamelajohnson1 ; Actually, it's none of your business, Pam. I'm here because I want to be...I loathe what is represented here... I do what supposed "Christians" like yourself are too cowardly to do...speak truth to darkness.

  • pamelajohnson1pamelajohnson1 143 Pts   -  
    Why didn't you tap the reply button?  I guess you didn't want me to see your reply.  God does not beg anyone to come to him.  We need him.  He does not need us.  If you think that you are representing God, you are not.  You are doing this for your own Glory.  So that you can feel like you are doing something for God.  If God want someone, he knows how to get them himself.  Just like he got Paul's attention.  He knocked him off his donkey and then blinded him. He doesn't need you to keep preaching to people who are not listening.  It's all falling on deaf ears.   Jesus told the disciples, "Mathew 10:14,14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet"
    Yet you just keep right on Posting long Sermans, which has no substance.  You don't really care what Jesus thinks, only what you think. Who is God, you or Jesus?  
    @RickeyD
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    @pamelajohnson1 Well what do you reckon your going to do now that god boy got banned because your going to be the only 1 here squirting all the god baloney all the time. What say I become a goddist myself then you won’t be so much like a tall popy so I’ll protect you then so don’t worry any way what do you reckon 
  • pamelajohnson1pamelajohnson1 143 Pts   -  
    Did he get banned?  I am about God, but I don't push him on anyone.  He is not that kind of God.  If you don't want him, he doesn't force anyone.  If he did everyone would worship him.  I was just trying to make him understand that God does not force anyone, and that what he is seeking is Glory for himself.  What it is, is that no one else will listen to him, so he comes on here and put all of his writings he said he wrote on here.  He's pushing people away from God even more, by his posts.  May God bless you and, help you Ricky D.@Barnardot
  • dallased25dallased25 253 Pts   -  
    @pamelajohnson1
    To be honest, Ricky didn't push anyone away further, because for the non-believers, we don't believe in a god anyways, so there's nothing to push away from. Attacking his arguments is not the same as attacking something we don't believe in. Ricky was one of the most dishonest and aggressive christians I've come across in a long time, but how "kind" or "rude" a christian is, won't change my beliefs on whether there is a god, only good, sound, logical arguments will do that and after decades of speaking with christians, I've never encountered this, so my mind remains unchanged. I don't seek out debates though to be convinced, I seek them out because I enjoy them and it's a good way to keep my mind fresh and an excuse to do research! Ricky however, I had already put on my banned list a month ago and refused to respond to him. Crazy I can forgive, but lying about someone, personally attacking them, threatening them and then not apologizing for it immediately gets a ban from me. 
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4589 Pts   -   edited June 17
    @dallased25

    I would contest this claim. I was planning on reading the Bible for the first time in my life over this summer, solely because I had met a very attractive and intelligent girl in real life with whom I had a great discussion of religion, prompting me to see what all the fuzz was about. Rickey single-handedly convinced me not to do so, wanting me to be as far away from everything that can lead to the kind of thinking (or lack of thereof) he was demonstrating as possible.

    Ricky did not push me away from religion (I never took religion seriously to begin with), but he certainly increased the amount of disgust I have towards the thing, to the point that even exploring it out of curiosity does not appeal to me any more. ;) Good job!

    I imagine that this is similar to how many people interested in national-socialism felt after they got to see it in full action in Germany. They may have been interested in it intellectually, but once Hitler had had his fun, that interest had likely died out.
  • dallased25dallased25 253 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar
    But Pamela's claim was that Ricky was pushing us away from god specifically, indicating that there's a god we believe in to push away from. Are you saying that you are on the fence perhaps? If not, then it's not god we are being pushed away from, just the religion he represents. Being interested in reading the bible is far different that believing it may be true. I personally encourage people to read the bible, especially if they are a believer, because it is the #1 way to set them down the road to deconversion. I too was challenged to read the bible when I was younger and did so. I was a believer that was starting to have doubts and was told by a member of a church that I should read the bible and that would show me the truth. Well it did...but not in the way she hoped. Reading the bible led me down a rabbit hole of discovery and seeking knowledge. I didn't stop with reading the bible, I researched the history of christianity, Jesus, different churches, how the bible was written, by whom, when and how it was compiled. Gaining knowledge is never a bad thing, so I actually do encourage you to read the bible. I doubt you will be convinced by it, but at least you'll know why you don't believe in it and why you "don't take religion seriously". 
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4589 Pts   -  
    @dallased25

    Oh, no, I have never considered the idea of "god" seriously; I have always seen it as a fantasy concept, like Santa Claus. That said, I have always been curious about religions from the philosophical, social and historical perspective, and I expected that reading the Bible would make me more informed about something that, apparently, has a significant role in lives of billions of people. However, every time in my life that I was considering reading one of the "holy books", I would immediately meet someone crazy about those books who would deter me from doing so.

    The attractive girl in question has bought a version of the Bible with commentary and sent it over to me; it is on my shelf at the moment. However, right now it is quite down my list of priorities, and I have many plans for this summer (including plans on reading a few specific books) that make this questionable endeavor seem like a waste of time.

    I understand your argument in favor of reading the Bible, but keep in mind that there are hundreds books of this kind in the world, and one would need to read them all in order to understand why religions centered around them are wrong. I think that it makes much more sense to go at the core of why any religion is fundamentally flawed: their incoherent epistemologies. That allows one to quickly dismiss religion as a valid epistemological concept, and then Christianity is just a special case of that. I do not think it necessary to read the Bible in order to understand why Christianity is incoherent, although it may be useful to read it to become a better debater and to be able to make counter-arguments specific to this particular religion. General arguments are usually less convincing than arguments targeting special cases; this is just how human mind works - we are terrible at generalizations and need concrete examples to understand general concepts.
  • pamelajohnson1pamelajohnson1 143 Pts   -  
    I live Jesus, he is a lifestyle for me. So, when I answer a question, his name will usually come up. I had to tell Ricky D, because as a fellow believer in Christ, I was bothered by his persistence. Because if you are not interested in God, he doesn't even look your way.  I stay on the site because sometimes there are interesting post, and I have to put my two cents in of course.  As far as me trying to change someone's believe, not a chance. My life is too busy to waste my time. I give my opinion.  That is exactly what it is.@dallased25
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    @pamelajohnson1 that was nice of you to say that because I don’t think Ricky is bad it’s just that he goes over the top other wise he knows a lot of stuff but he has to control him self and may be take some Ritalin but I think that I am be coming to know god any way which is be coming an amazing experience 
  • pamelajohnson1pamelajohnson1 143 Pts   -  
    Are you joking?  Saying I am becoming to know God.  If you're not joking, I will be glad to answer any questions.@Barnardot
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    @pamelajohnson1 ;Are you joking?  Saying I am becoming to know God.  If you're not joking, I will be glad to answer any questions.@Barnardot

    No what I mean is that I am becoming to know God but that’s doesn’t matter now any way because I now know God is in me and I feel at peace with God and the world and I suppose that really I get your point about becoming because it is a journey that were on any way.

  • dallased25dallased25 253 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar
    I get all of that. A bible with commentary....sounds like either an apologist version or a version to expand on things that are confusing. For me reading the bible really was time consuming, mainly because right from Genesis the bible has problems, which led me to do research, which led to the conclusion that most christians just make stuff up when it comes to the bible. It was useful for me because it forced me to extensively learn what I now am against, which is organized religion in general, but I can argue specifically against christianity using the bible. The god that christians believe in is one of the most vile, disgusting gods that humanity has ever imagined...and yet billions think it is a good god. I do agree that christianity on it's head...without the context of the bible, is still vastly incoherent, as are pretty much all religions. It actually becomes even more incoherent once you read the bible, as it did for me. If you aren't on the fence, then reading the bible won't do you much good anyways, it's just knowledge for the sake of knowledge, but I get not wanting to waste time on something like that. That's also why I've never read the Koran, I know it would be a wasted endeavor. 
  • dallased25dallased25 253 Pts   -  
    @pamelajohnson1
    I don't think he believes in the same god you do. You might want to ask him for clarification. As for your beliefs, I know what you believe, I just don't know why you believe it. 
  • pamelajohnson1pamelajohnson1 143 Pts   -  
    I will ask.@dallased25
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    @dallased25 ;I don't think he believes in the same god you do. You might want to ask him for clarification. As for your beliefs, I know what you believe, I just don't know why you believe it. 

    I do believe in that same God because there is only one God any way and you get the turbin heads talking about Allah but it’s the same God except Christian s don’t get like terrourists and do so many virgins which is really disgusting any way so really it’s all about Jesus who is the only savior and he isn’t all about that marter stuff any way.

  • BoganBogan 79 Pts   -  
    z904.jpg 178.3K
  • BoganBogan 79 Pts   -  
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