Modern Hollywood movies are woeful.

Nomenclature

Couldn't agree more. There are some exceptions, of course, but generally movies in America have come to be viewed as consumer products, rather than artwork, and therein lies the problem. Financiers are looking to recoup and profit from investment, so all that matters from their perspective are bums on seats. 

jack

Bogan said:

Does anyone else think that todays movies are boring and not worth watching?   If so, could you please explain why you think that way?

Hello B:

Yeah, I think they're crappy too..  But, why don't you tell us the REAL reason for this debate.  You wanna BAN movies you don't like.

Over to  you, censor man..

excon

PS:  If I'm wrong, please accept my sincerest apology...

MayCaesar

The vast majority of movies have always been... not particularly deep, as is the case with any other art. There is a bias that makes it look like the art today is worse than in the past: when thinking about the past, people only think about the tiny minority of gems, as everything else has been erased by the sands of time. Everyone knows who Shakespeare was; no one knows thousands of other popular writers whose art was quickly consumed and thrown away.

This is also why people living in the US may think that art in other countries is different in this respect. This is because when, say, talking about the South Korean cinematography, what reaches the US theaters and Netflix is "Remember" or "Mr Sunshine", not all those thousands of Korean blockbusters that no one even bothered to make English subtitles to for nobody expected them to possibly gain any popularity in the English-speaking countries. If you have any Korean friends, ask them about the quality of movies offered to them routinely in the Seoul theaters, and you will hear much of the same complaints.

As for changing a real world story in order to achieve a particular artistic goal, it has been done since the dawn of civilization. Have you read the Iliad by Homer? It is based on real historical events and it contains a lot of fictional characters and episodes such as the one with the "Troyan horse". Oh, and it is close to 3 millennia old.

I am not a huge fan of Western movies nowadays, but the last Hollywood movie I watched was Unhinged (2020), and I thought it was absolutely fantastic.

Bogan

@Nomenclature

You agree with me, Nommie!!!!!

Gosh, then I must be wrong.

Bogan

@jack

I accept your apology, excon.     You are forgiven.   Of all your sins.    Although, it is a very long list.    And I can see that there are a lot of juicy ones too!

Nomenclature

@Bogan

You agree with me, Nommie!

Yes, because you're criticising Hollywood movies instead of arguing whites are superior to blacks.

Bogan

.  @Nomenclature

Once again you are lying.  I have never said that whites are superior to blacks in every situation.  Please stop making up lies about me.

If you think that all races are equal.

1.   By what reasoned thought did you come to that conclusion?
2.  What evidence do you have that all races are equal?

Nomenclature

@Bogan

Once again you are lying.

Once again, no I'm not:-

Bogan said:

Does anyone else think that todays movies are boring and not worth watching?

You're criticising Hollywood movies, exactly like I said.

Bogan

@Nomenclature

Too gutless to explain your own racism, Nommie?

jack

Bogan said:

@jack

I accept your apology, excon.     You are forgiven. 

Hello B:

Thanks, B.  So, you were ONLY criticizing the movies - NOT telling us what we can DO to rid ourselves of them??   

Really?  I'm not so sure..  Of course, we've had this conversation before - on THESE very pages, I might add..  You were recommending we CENSOR violent, dangerous movies, because it's violent, dangerous movies that are responsible for the way people behave..

Or, was that somebody else?? 

excon

jack

Argument Topic: Modern Hollywood movies are woeful

@Bogan

Hello B:

Ok, if we're talking about the movie business, and not  movie censorship, I'll throw this out..

Today, there is an upheaval in the film industry.  The platform, itself, (Subscription TV, streaming, theaters, Netflix, etc.) is rapidly changing, so it's no wonder that good movie making can't find a home.  Hollywood is no longer the epicenter of the film industry.

Having said that, amongst the trash, there are some gems.  You just have to seek them out.  Are they to your taste??  Probably not.  But, that's the great thing about art.  One man's vulgarity is another's lyric. Is that any different than it ever was? Probably not.

The good news for you is, you don't have to watch. 

excon

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Favorites?

@Bogan
What are your favorite movies of all time?

Bogan

 @JulesKorngold ;

1.   Lawrence of Arabia
2.   Zulu
3.   The Vikings    (Kirk Douglas)
4.   Spartacus       (Kirk Douglas with excellent dialogue written by Peter Ustinov)
 5.   In The Heat of the Night     (Sydney Poitier     Absolutely first rate dialogue)
6.  The Kings Speech
7.   Citizen X   (excellent story based upon a real event)  
8.   Dances With Wolves
9.  Murder in Coweta County   (Johnny Cash and Andy Griffith.    Excellent story based upon a real event by exceptional actors, including Johnny Cash's wife.)  
10. Jeremiah Johnson 

 You know, the sort of movies where you could actually hear what the actors were saying and you did not have to turn on the sub titles to understand what the hell was going on.    No explosions, No car chases.   The actresses kept their clothes on.    No superhero's.    The dialogue was realistic and relatable.     The characterizations were believable and well acted.      And no endless scene changes every 0.5 of a second which really pi-sses me off.    

JulesKorngold

@Bogan
And what decades of movies would you consider "modern"?

jack

Argument Topic: My favs

Hello:

1.  The Hunt for Red October

2.   Forrest Gump

3.   2001

4.  The Limping Lady

5.  Mohawk

6.  The Wizard of Oz (original)

7.  Crash

8.  Schindler's List

9.  Shane

10. The Thing (original)

11.  Any and all of the Jason Bourne movies

Not a modern movie among 'em.

excon

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Good Modern Movies

@jack @Bogan
What do you think of these?  Are they all "woeful" modern movies?
Top Gun: Maverick (2022)
Hamilton (2020)
1917 (2019)
Ford v Ferrari (2019)
Green Book (2018)
Hacksaw Ridge (2016)
Mad Max: Fury Road (2015)
 Interstellar (2014)
Whiplash (2014)
The Wolf of Wall Street (2013)
12 Years a Slave (2013)
 Django Unchained (2012)
The Help (2011)
Inception (2010)
Shutter Island (2010)
Inglourious Basterds (2009)
Up (2009)
Gran Torino (2008)
The Dark Knight (2008)
WALL·E (2008)
No Country for Old Men (2007)
The Departed (2006)
Million Dollar Baby (2004)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (2003)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003)
Finding Nemo (2003)
Catch Me If You Can (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
The Pianist (2002)
A Beautiful Mind (2001)
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
Monsters, Inc. (2001)
Memento (2000)
Gladiator (2000)

Bogan

Hi Jules, I have only see 5 of them

 

1917       Okay, good sets, props, and costumes,  but predictable story line.

 Million Dollar Baby         Very good movie.   Very entertaining.   I watched it with three teenaged young ladies and they all enjoyed the movie, even though the subject would not normally be considered a chick flick. 

 A Beautiful Mind.    A good movie even though the story line was a bit tedious.    I do prefer movies about real events.

 No Country For Old Men.      I disliked it.  I found the movie to be disjointed, poorly spliced and hard to follow what was happening.   In addition, I do not like movies where a criminal is some sort of hero.   That puts ideas into young and dumb minds.     Although paradoxically, I think that "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly was one of the best westerns ever made.   it was quite groundbreaking with it's authentic sets, and the antics of it's three anti heroes were very amusing.     I still love the scene where they are going to hang Tuco (Eli Wallach) and it takes ten minutes for the public official to read all the charges he had been convicted on.    "Raping a minor of the white race, raping a virgin of the black race, cheating at cards, leading a wagon train onto the hunting grounds of the Sioux Indians, bigamy,  ............"

 Gladiator.     Woeful.     Very predictable story line and you had to keep asking yourself, if Russel Crowe was such an invincible gladiator, how come he could not escape his jailers?

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: So...

@Bogan
Thanks for your honesty.  You liked 60% of the "modern" movies you saw from my list.  Does that support your claim that modern movies are woeful?

My list is based on IMDB's list of Top 250 Movies.  I doubt that 60% number would change much if you saw all 35 movies I listed.

So, again, are you contradicting your "woeful" claim?  Is 60% woeful?

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: 50 Woeful Older Movies

Plan 9 from Outer Space (1957)

Santa Claus Conquers the Martians (1964)

Hercules in New York (1970)

Exorcist II: The Heretic (1977)

Grease 2 (1982)

Supergirl (1984)

Jaws: The Revenge (1987)

Teen Wolf Too (1987)

Hobgoblins (1988)

Caddyshack II (1988)

Mac and Me (1988)

Police Academy 6: City Under Siege (1989)

Going Overboard (1989)

Troll 2 (1990)

Captain America (1990)

Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot (1992)

RoboCop 3 (1993)

Super Mario Bros. (1993)

Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday (1993)

Look Who's Talking Now (1993)

Police Academy: Mission to Moscow

The Next Karate Kid (1994)

The NeverEnding Story III (1994)

Double Dragon (1994)

Highlander: The Final Dimension (1994)

Street Fighter (1994)

Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Next Generation (1995)

Fair Game (1995)

Bio-Dome (1996)

Barb Wire (1996)

Striptease (1996)

The Island of Dr. Moreau (1996)

Batman & Robin (1997)

Speed 2: Cruise Control (1997)

Steel (1997)

Mortal Kombat: Annihilation (1997)

Home Alone 3 (1997)

Spice World (1997)

Mr. Magoo (1997)

Species II (1998)

3 Ninjas: High Noon at Mega Mountain (1998)

The Patriot (1998)

The Avengers (1998)

Baby Geniuses (1999)

Wing Commander (1999)

Beowulf (1999)

Universal Soldier: The Return (1999)

Inspector Gadget (1999)

Dudley Do-Right (1999)

Bats (1999)

Bogan

@JulesKorngold ;      I doubt that 60% number would change much if you saw all 35 movies I listed.

One of the basic principles of statistical analysis is that drawing a conclusion about a large sample from a small sample should not be considered accurate.

The reason why I consider movies today woeful is because of good reasons, at least to me.     The sound quality is so bad that it is usually impossible to understand what the actors are saying, so it is necessary to turn on the sub titles on your TV,    I know that there is a technical reason for this, but it does not alter my opinion that new movies today are unwatchable, at least when you are sitting at home watching a movie.     Today's movies are designed to be displayed in ultra modern movie houses which have ultra modern sound systems with multiple tracks playing at once.     But stereophonic systems in TV's today can not cope with that, nor can even older style movie theatres that do not possess multi channel sound systems.      In addition, TV's are now ultra slim with tiny speakers in the rear, which means that the sound channels devoted to speech get drowned out by those devoted to sound affects.     Result, unless watching a movie in an ultra modern movie theatre, you need sub titles to understand what the actors are saying.

They shift scenes too quickly which to me personally is extremely annoying.      Compare this constant scene switching with the long picturesque scenes in Lawrance of Arabia where the audience is treated to the most beautiful visual scenes, including actions portrayed on the most amazing landscapes.       The reason why movies today do this is to try and impart the idea that the plot is developing so quickly that it is necessary to change scenes quickly.     it is done to portray a quality which often does not even exist.       Story lines today are too predictable and political correctness dictates that they also need to display predictable wokeism.

Story lines seem to be written by children, not adults.    Probably because the target audience is adolescents.    Adults find these movies to be just silly.    The idea of having actors say anything profound about understanding the inner motivations of other actors in the movie, including the bad guy,  just do not exist today.  In it's place is wokedom.        Too many new movies are submerged in wokeism.      From the 80's it became axiomatic that every trio of main good guy actors included a photogenic male and female lead, with a minority sidekick.      It was a formula which was unrealistic and too predictable.    Today, we get female empowerment movies from Hervey Weinstein where the female lead takes on a role that a man should normally take on.   Watching a very photogenic young woman shoot, karate kick, bayonet, or kill people with swords is just ridiculous.   And after the action is over she takes off her clothes and treats the audience to scenes of her in her knickers or her nudity.  So too, every movie produced today seems to have THE MESSAGE that racism is the EIGHTH DEADLY SIN.     Take for example the quite good modern movie AVATAR where the bad guy oppressors are the white managed mining company composed of all humans,  the oppressed are the indigenous land owners on the mineral rich land the mining company covets, and the hero is a handicapped male who changes his race through some sort of shape stifling technology, to fight his own race of oppressors..   

I was watching youtube one morning and saw a link to previews of 10 upcoming 2023 movies and I clicked on that. 9 out of the 10 were violent superhero movies with lots of explosions, rapid scene changes of computer generated special affects, and violent male, female, and minority leads.   The singular exception was a cartoon movie for kids.     No wonder Hollywood got woke and is now going broke.    The idea that a good movie can be produced with featuring ordinary people dealing with extraordinary situations without waving a gun around, seems to elude screenwriters today.      That is why I consider old movies written about real events (or even believable fictional events) involving actors portraying characters I can relate to, as being superior to today's movies.

   .      

jack

Bogan said:

That is why I consider old movies written about real events (or even believable fictional events) involving actors portraying characters I can relate to, as being superior to today's movies.     

Hello B:

I don't disagree with you..  MOST movies are crap.  I dunno why that is..  MOST restaurants are crap.  MOST music is crap.  MOST paintings are crap..  Art is a lottery, really..  Some bad art is considered good  by somebody, and some good art is considered bad.. 

I dunno why that is..  The hope is that somebody will pay them lots of money for their art..  Some guy made millions streaming silk from buildings in NY..  I dunno why..  Some people pay Tarantino lots of money to make crap like Kill Bill.  I dunno why.

SOME people LOVE crap movies.  In a free country, they oughta be able to love 'em, right?

excon

Bogan

@jack

I stopped replying to you some months ago when all you would do when I submitted long and reasoned arguments supporting my position, was for you to reply with sneery one liners and insults.  A month or so ago, you directed a post at me about something which was written in a very reasonable and polite way.    I wondered if you had finally realised that heckling was not debating?    And that you had mended your evil ways?     So I responded in my usual polite fashion, at the same time telling you that i was wondering if your uncharacteristic politeness was just a ploy to get me replying to you, whereupon you would revert to type and begin heckling and insulting me again?

I was hardly surprised when you did just that.    You even claimed that I was "a ."

Look ma-a-a-a-te.    If you can't control your emotions then I don't think you have any place on a debate site.      In any case, I gave you another chance and you blew it.     

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Try It, You Might Like It

@Bogan said:  ... I consider old movies written about real events (or even believable fictional events) involving actors portraying characters I can relate to, as being superior to today's movies.

"A Man Called Otto" fits that category and was released in 2023.