Why Would Any Collection Of Matter In The Universe Be Conscious?

JulesKorngold

The "hard problem of consciousness" highlights the difficulty in explaining why physical processes give rise to subjective experiences.

maxx

too many theories. it is possible that our awareness, is based upon nothing but our memories. we get these memories through our experiences as we grow, inputted by our senses. if you had no memories from the day you were born, one would not be aware of self. another idea is consciousness is part of time/space, a form of energy that permeates  through all matter, and the matter that have a brain to receive and make use of it have awareness  .@JulesKorngold

Barnardot

@maxx ;too many theories. it is possible that our awareness, is based upon nothing but our memories. 

That is about the essence of the realty of it all. 

People tend to over rate the brain since we just inconveniently have a brain too big for what we need. 

There are exceptions to the rule like @Bogan for example who we know has only half a brain and we can see from that example that a human simply cannot function well on that level.

So, when you stand back and analyze the hole situation you begin to realize that the brain is simply a processing organ with a memory. No big deal at all and consciousness is no more than a metaphor that people who think too much use to give a poetical slant to a natural process of dealing with information then acting on it.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@JulesKorngold ; The purpose of consciousness is rooted in the eschatological will of our Creator and His purposes for creating the temporary Realm of Time which is constrained by physics and the 2nd law of thermodynamics; this, for the purposes of constructing a very temporary alternative field of battle for the continuing cosmic struggle between a rebellious angelic host that sought a coup in the Kingdom. 

Our Creator entered the Realm of Time for the primary purpose of destroying the works of this rebellious hoard via a battle strategy known as the Gospel which is first pictured for us in Genesis 3:21 immediately subsequent the formal declaration of war in Genesis 3:15. You don't see this and your science can't understand it because you are both dead spiritually in unbelief and your eyes don't see, your ears don't hear, your heart is hardened to Truth and your soul is headed to death in Hell in unbelief. 

You and your demonically led fellow atheists naively believe that this pitiful, temporary, Realm of Time is the epitome of all life...you have no idea of the unfathomable and eternally intricate Realm of the Spirit that surrounds us, permeates us, because, again, you and yours are dead spiritually is self-righteousness and atheistic arrogance. This demonic forum is replete with your absurd foolishness.

@Factfinder @Joeseph ; @21CenturyIconoclast ; @Polytheistwitch ; @Fredsnephew ; @MayCaesar @JulesKorngold

maxx

Then aside from your constant circular reasoning,  show us where it is at. All you can do is point at the bible and say its true, because it says its true. Other than that you have nothing but an opinion. Show me proof of god outside  of the bible. @RickeyHoltsclaw

jack

JulesKorngold said:

The mystery of consciousness has not been solved.  Religious people believe consciousness comes from God.  Scientists have various views.

Hello Jules:

Just what IS consciousness, after all?  Is it being aware of yourself?  Are you conscious if you can contemplate your own navel?  If so, AI, although it doesn't have navels, IS conscious . Now, one could say that AI is not conscious, just smart - very very smart.

Well, if it's that smart and getting smarter every day, at what point CAN it contemplate its own chip/navel, if ever.

excon

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; The Bible contains the ONLY TRUTH concerning our Creation and our presence in Time and how to initiate an eternal relationship with our Creator that you will find anywhere in this World. Science can't explain it, man will never define it...but the Holy Spirit plainly tells you the who, what, where, when, why, concerning your reality and your future and your eternity and why our Creator created this temporary Realm of Time and He under girds the veracity and reality of Truth with fulfilled eschatology...but you must desire this knowledge and you must pursue it with a heart willing to believe and humble yourself before God in prayer and sincerity.

@Factfinder @Joeseph ; @21CenturyIconoclast ; @Polytheistwitch ; @Fredsnephew ; @MayCaesar; @JulesKorngold @Maxx

maxx

In other words,  you have no proof, aside from pointing and quoting from a book that says it is true. That is not proof.  It is like saying that rock created everything and when asked for proof,  you point at the rock, and say the rock says so. Show me proof outside of the bible.  @RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar

I think you are making a categorical error when asking this question. You see, the "why" questions presume existence of a cause behind the object of interest - however, said cause can only exist within a bigger logical framework. For example, if you ask me, "Why did you go to your office today?", I will say, "Because I wanted to get a lot of meaningful work done" - but me wanting to get a lot of meaningful work done, in turn, relies on the idea that getting a lot of meaningful work done will bring me some benefit. Without the latter idea, my answer makes no sense.

Now, what happens when you ask a question about a very fundamental property of the world? "Why is there reality?" Well, there is no larger logical framework to grab onto, since causality only exists within some reality - the cause cannot lay beyond the reality for, by definition, the reality encompasses everything that exists. So the question is erroneous. Reality exists empirically, and there is no possible cause for it existing.

Suppose some variation of the panpsychism - a loose set of theories attributing consciousness to everything in the Universe down to simple atoms - holds true. Why? Well, the Universe is what it is. It is not like someone was playing in a sandbox and made the Universe out of sand, granting it the properties of that sand - the Universe is the only place where anything can exist in principle. So there is no "why". The Universe is what it is, and it does not owe anyone an explanation. Nor can there be an explanation.

You could ask a more nuanced question if you had some theory in mind in the truthfulness of which you were fairly convinced. Perhaps your equations would suggest that atoms might or might not have consciousness, and empirically you find out that they do. Why? You can dig deeper in your theory and try to clarify this. But you cannot find some sort of the ultimate "because" at which this line of questioning terminates: it will always come back to the intrinsic properties of this reality, and logic cannot go outside of it. It is like trying to escape a car by progressively increasing the car's speed: you are going to move faster along with the car, and unless you physically exit the car, no amount of kinematic trickery will allow you to teleport outside of it. The problem is, physically exiting the reality is impossible, so...

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; I point to Jesus, to Israel, the fulfilled prophecy, to changed lives in Jesus, these things under gird the veracity, the Truth, the divinity, of the Living Word and the written word and you do yourself an eternal disservice when you neglect what your Creator has provided in the Canon of Scripture and trust in the fallibility of men...it is amazing to me that one who purports to be logical and reasonable neglects the evidence of Biblical reality that is IN YOUR FACE with modern day Israel, Islam...you are the Devil's fool. 

 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@maxx ; I point to Jesus, to Israel, the fulfilled prophecy, to changed lives in Jesus, these things under gird the veracity, the Truth, the divinity, of the Living Word and the written word and you do yourself an eternal disservice when you neglect what your Creator has provided in the Canon of Scripture and trust in the fallibility of men...it is amazing to me that one who purports to be logical and reasonable neglects the evidence of Biblical reality that is IN YOUR FACE with modern day Israel, Islam...you are the Devil's fool. 

 

You've asserted childish myth as truth with no facts or logic to back it up. You've admitted the bible is erroneous, "mistakes" are contained therein. You have not laid eyes on original manuscripts so you trust copies are exact, trusting in man to preserve "gods" word. The only indwelling you have is self willed ignorance.

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hey Jules.

@JulesKorngold

Religious people believe that consciousness comes from GOD.

Though they fail to have a reasonable explanation for where does GOD get it's consciousness from.

Because so there, is not a reasonable explanation.

Because we could say exactly the same in a non-GOD scenario.