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Is Donald Trump's Conduct on January 6, 2021 A Stain On America's History?

Debate Information


Congressman Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) thinks so.  Here is more of what he said in his closing statement in the Jan 6 Hearing on 7/21:
"Whatever your politics, whatever you think about the outcome of the election, we as Americans must all agree on this. Donald Trump's conduct on January 6 was a supreme violation of his oath of office and a complete dereliction of his duty to our nation...It is a dishonor to all those who have sacrificed and died in service of our democracy...The forces Donald Trump ignited that day have not gone away. The militant intolerant ideologies, the militias, the alienation, and the disaffection, the weird fantasies and disinformation, they're all still out there, ready to go...We, the people, must demand more of our politicians and ourselves. Oaths matter. Character matters.  Truth matters."

And Kinzinger is a Republican.
OakTownAPlaffelvohfen



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  • anarchist100anarchist100 672 Pts   -  
    All of the people rotting in prison for making a personal choice to put a drug in their body is a stain on American history, the Fact that Julian Assange is rotting in prison for bringing accountability to government is a stain on American history, Waco is a stain on American history, so is Ruby Ridge, and every war in the last 50 years, based on lies, waged for the personal enrichment of the ruling class, at the expense millions of innocent people. That is a stain on American history. Your democracy is a sham, two private organizations control who runs, private organizations who have no legal obligation elect their candidates fairly, organizations that are owned and controlled by the richest in the country, Not us, the common people, who are sent to die in wars for the elites, no, we don't matter, we don't have the funds to possibly matter! The media will never tell you this! They are owned and controlled by the rich! They serve their interest at your expense! Such a system should not be tolerated! Shall we continue to allow this to be the case? Shall we continue to let the powerful use us as pawns for their own selfish gain? I say Not! How many people killed in these wars are enough? How much tyranny mist we endure? Before we fix the system?
  • exconexcon 562 Pts   -  

    Is Donald Trump's Conduct on January 6, 2021 A Stain On America's History?


    Hello J:

    It depends on Merrick Garland..  If Trump is CONVICTED it shows that democracy WORKS..  If he's NOT, the stain will engulf us all. 

    excon








    CYDdhartaJulesKorngoldPlaffelvohfen
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    No.  

    And Kinzinger is no Republican.  He's among the most liberty-adverse members of the House.
    JulesKorngoldOakTownAPlaffelvohfen
  • markemarke 403 Pts   -  
    @excon

    If Garland continues to demonize, persecute, and destroy conservatives in America it will prove the Marxists have finally destroyed the American justice system.
    OakTownAPlaffelvohfen
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  
    President Trump was an outsider who was a breath of fresh air wafting through the mouldy corridors of power in Washington.     His nomination was opposed by the Republican Party machine and by the Democrats because he was elected by popular mandate from the people, and was outside of the normal party room politics.    Within the Republican party, you can always depend upon people like Adam Kinzinger to ally with his own parties enemies to stab a popular President his party can not control, in the back,  
    OakTownAPlaffelvohfen
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1702 Pts   -  
    @Bogan
    Trump was able to win the election due to one thing: frame control. He was able to make the public believe that having an outsider in the White House was the right decision. Of course, his opponent was Hillary Clinton, arguably one of the most experienced politicians in the country. Hillary Clinton could very well have argued that having an insider, who would command the country based on experience rather than mob rule, was the right decision. But she didn't, and that was the key turning point which swung the election in Trump's favour.
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  
    Having an outsider in the white house who thought originally and who was outside of the "business as usual" tweedlee-tweedledum Republican/Democrat co government with their paid lobbyists and professional political caste, was good for a USA which seems to be imploding.    The only party which appears to favour mob rule is the Democrats who's supporters burn down their own neighborhoods to show their displeasure whenever a situation develops where they can claim they are "oppressed", by those utterly evil and disgusting white people who are all racists. 
    OakTownA
  • OakTownAOakTownA 348 Pts   -  
    "he was elected by popular mandate from the people"
    Then why did he loose the popular vote? Clinton received 48.3% of the vote, while Trump received 46.2% in 2016.

    Plaffelvohfen
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA

    About one half of US voters (the productive and smart people) voted for Trump.   According to the polls (if you believe them), 75% of Trump voters believe that the vote was rigged.     I agree with them.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4676 Pts   -  
    Trump was able to win the election due to one thing: frame control. He was able to make the public believe that having an outsider in the White House was the right decision. Of course, his opponent was Hillary Clinton, arguably one of the most experienced politicians in the country. Hillary Clinton could very well have argued that having an insider, who would command the country based on experience rather than mob rule, was the right decision. But she didn't, and that was the key turning point which swung the election in Trump's favour.
    That would have been a poor argument: having a lot of experience in politics is not necessarily a good thing, as it tends to involve a lot of corruption. One of the most experienced country leaders in the world at the moment is Mbasogo, president of Equatorial Guinea, who has hold the office for 43 years straight - Equatorial Guinea is one of the worst human right abusers in the world and is a totalitarian dictatorship with abysmal quality of life.

    We are watching another manifestation of it as we speak: Putin is a ruler of one of the most militarily powerful nations in the world, VERY experienced (has been in essence ruling the country for the past 24 years, and played politics since as early as early 80-s) - and Zelensky is a TV comedian who knew nothing about politics until 3 years ago, and is running an impoverished nation with weak military... And look at how the war is going.

    It appears that political experience, at best, does not directly translate to quality of presidential performance. And Americans have felt that for a long time, and rightly so. All these experienced politicians kept getting the country into crisis after crisis after crisis. While Trump was a poor choice, he was not a poor choice because of his lack of experience in politics, but because of his objective qualities.

    See, experience in politics makes you a great politician. But there is a world of difference between a great politician and a great public servant.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • OakTownAOakTownA 348 Pts   -  
    You believe the 2016 election was rigged? The election where Trump won enough electoral votes to become president, but lost the popular vote?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  
    No.    What is your point?

    Since the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, I have firmly believed that the non elected US government has within it's ranks people who do not believe in democracy at all, and who consider themselves the real power behind the Presidential throne.    I think these people murdered your President because they could not control him, and they got clean away with it.     This does not mean that they have absolute power and can do anything they like, just that they have great influence over politics in the USA, and they do whatever they can to serve their own interests.     These influential people did not want Donald Trump elected because he was outside of their influence, and they did whatever they could to destroy him.     It was screamingly obvious that Trump could not have lost that election.    Everywhere he went he was met with cheering crowds. He would take off from Florida is 100 degree heat and there would be thpousands cheering him off.  when he landed in some frozen northern state there would be thousands of cheering supporters standing in freezing conditions to welcome him.  One pilot of the Presidential plane said he had never seen anything like the popularity of Donald Trump with any other President he had flown.    Everywhere Biden went he was met by nobody except a few Trump supporters chanting "fark Joe Biden."

    If you think that this group does not exist then look at how Hunter Biden is untouchable.    How many photos does he have to have of him smoking either crack cocaine or methamphetamines', and cavorting with prostitutes to get arrested and charged?    It is as clear as a mirror that somebody high up is protecting him, and telling the US Justice Department and the FBI to lay off.    And that without the "laptop from hell" which the FBI had in their possession 12 months before the election, which clearly displayed that Hunter Biden was an agent for a paid agent for Communist China and that his finances were in a joint account with his father.   

    If Hollywood made a movie about a President like that, who was in the pay of your enemies, people would think it was too far fetched to be credible.    But it is real.    Remember the "Russia collusion " hoax that could not find any evidence because none existed?    And that went on and on forever but was proven to be a dirty trick of the Clinton election people?      Where are the screaming banner headlines alleging 'China collusion" between the Biden's when there is credible hard evidence that it is true.?    Where is the FBI and the Justice Department.   Oh, that's right, they are chasing moms and dads who won't accept CRT being taught to their kids in school and being labelled "domestic terrorist's."

    Trump warned before the election that the US postal vote system was wide open to abuse.    Do I think that the people in the US public service whom hated Trump could take full advantage of that and rig an election?    And get away with it?    You bet I do.   They did it with Kennedy and they did it to Trump.    And don't call me "anti American".      I am as pro USA as you can get, but I love the productive people of the USA, and I despise the people who either want to destroy it, or subtly destroy it's democracy.


    OakTownA
  • OakTownAOakTownA 348 Pts   -  
    You stated: "he (Trump) was elected by popular mandate from the people"
    To that I replied: "Then why did he loose the popular vote? Clinton received 48.3% of the vote, while Trump received 46.2% in 2016.https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_election,_2016"
    You then responded: "About one half of US voters (the productive and smart people) voted for Trump.   According to the polls (if you believe them), 75% of Trump voters believe that the vote was rigged.     I agree with them."
    To which I replied: "You believe the 2016 election was rigged? The election where Trump won enough electoral votes to become president, but lost the popular vote?"
    My point was that you claimed that Trump won in 2016 with a "popular mandate from the people," yet he lost the popular vote.  Hope that helps.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • OakTownAOakTownA 348 Pts   -  
    " It was screamingly obvious that Trump could not have lost that election.    Everywhere he went he was met with cheering crowds. He would take off from Florida is 100 degree heat and there would be thpousands cheering him off.  when he landed in some frozen northern state there would be thousands of cheering supporters standing in freezing conditions to welcome him.  One pilot of the Presidential plane said he had never seen anything like the popularity of Donald Trump with any other President he had flown.    Everywhere Biden went he was met by nobody except a few Trump supporters chanting "fark Joe Biden.""
    And you know for a fact that every single person there can and did vote for Trump? Just because there were large crowds waiting to see Trump does not mean everyone there could or did vote for him. Even Trump's own Attorney General stated there was no evidence of systemic voter fraud. If you have evidence to support your claim, please provide it.

    "If you think that this group does not exist then look at how Hunter Biden is untouchable.    How many photos does he have to have of him smoking either crack cocaine or methamphetamines', and cavorting with prostitutes to get arrested and charged?    It is as clear as a mirror that somebody high up is protecting him, and telling the US Justice Department and the FBI to lay off.    And that without the "laptop from hell" which the FBI had in their possession 12 months before the election, which clearly displayed that Hunter Biden was an agent for a paid agent for Communist China and that his finances were in a joint account with his father."
    First and foremost, Hunter Biden is not in office, nor is he running for office currently. You mean the photographs that have yet to be authenticated? "The vast majority of the data — and most of the nearly 129,000 emails it contained — could not be verified by either of the two security experts who reviewed the data for The Post."[113

    "  Where are the screaming banner headlines alleging 'China collusion" between the Biden's when there is credible hard evidence that it is true.?"
    And what evidence is that?

    "Oh, that's right, they are chasing moms and dads who won't accept CRT being taught to their kids in school and being labelled "domestic terrorist's.""
    What the heck are you even talking about?

    "Trump warned before the election that the US postal vote system was wide open to abuse. "
    Trump says a lot of things, many of them untrue. Remember when he said Mexico was going to pay for his boarder wall? How'd that go? "The Washington Post suggests President Donald Trump told 30,573 false or misleading statements over 4 years." Politifact assessed 29 statements Trump made in his first 100 days. 17 of them were determined to be false. That's 59% of the statements checked. In contrast, Obama's false statements in his first 100 days came out to be i 1 in 12, or 8.3%, and Bidend's false statements were 2 out of 4, or 50%. "Trump... falsely discussed US murder rates, immigration and refugees, and that he didn’t know Steve Bannon before his presidential campaign."
    In another discussion, I outlined the steps a person or group would have to take to enact systemic voter fraud through the mail. I can post them again, if you've forgotten.

    "Do I think that the people in the US public service whom hated Trump could take full advantage of that and rig an election?    And get away with it?    You bet I do.   They did it with Kennedy and they did it to Trump."
    Who and how? You claim there is the nebulous group of people who behind the scenes work to destroy this country. Without evidence, and no your feelings do not count as evidence, you might as well be saying an Illuminati Cabal of witches are doing spells to keep Trump from becoming president again.

    " I love the productive people of the USA,"
    And who are they?

    "I despise the people who either want to destroy it, or subtly destroy it's democracy."
    Like the people who stormed the Capitol on 1/6/2021 to try and force the overturning of the 2020 election?

  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  

    Okie wrote

     And you know for a fact that every single person there can and did vote for Trump? Just because there were large crowds waiting to see Trump does not mean everyone there could or did vote for him.

     It is a clear indication of how extremely popular he was among voters.    And Biden's failure to attract such cheering and enthusiastic crowds was a clear indication of how unpopular he was.    As Shakespeare might have said.    "Something is rotten in the United States."

     Okie wrote

      Even Trump's own Attorney General stated there was no evidence of systemic voter fraud.

     I have always been amazed at how disunited US political parties are.    There always seems to be both Republicans and Democrats who love to stab their own parties and leaders in the back.

     Okie wrote.

     If you have evidence to support your claim, please provide it.

     No direct evidence, but an avalanche of indirect evidence.    In Australia, such evidence can still get you convicted of murder.

     Okie wrote.

     First and foremost, Hunter Biden is not in office, nor is he running for office currently.

     You are sidestepping the issue.    The point that I was clearly making, and which you wish to ignore, used Hunter Biden as a perfect example that somebody in high office in the FBI and the Justice Department is protecting the Presidents son.   And this is because of the political implications.    Such corrupt behaviour by politicised public officials clearly indicates that some members of the US public service would do anything to prevent a President like Trump from "cleaning up the swamp."    Like rigging an election?

     Okie wrote.

     You mean the photographs that have yet to be authenticated? "The vast majority of the data — and most of the nearly 129,000 emails it contained — could not be verified by either of the two security experts who reviewed the data for The Post.

      Were those two "security experts" two of the 50 FBI agents who signed off on the report claiming that Trump was beholden to Putin? 

     Okie wrote  

     And what evidence is that?

     There is an entire laptop full of evidence which the FBI sat on for 12 months prior to the election, because the politicised members of the FBI did not want Trump to win.    So they about the laptop, and the laptop's clear evidence that both Hunter and Joe are paid agents of Red China.    But it is all coming out now.    The evidence is so clear and compelling, that even CNN and MSNBC can't pretend it didn't happen.   Even you won't be able to do your usual three monkey approach to thinking about Democrat political corruption.

     Okie wrote.

     What the heck are you even talking about?

     No wonder you are a leftie.    You are completely ignorant about the political situation within your own country.    Your own Democrat Attorney General supports left wing teachers in the USA who want to teach anti white racism to children.     When parents all over the USA started turning up at school board meeting and objecting to teachers teaching CRT to their kids, a leftist teacher complained to your attorney general, Merrick Garland, told the FBI to investigate parents and he called them "domestic terrorists."  

     'Parents Are Not Domestic Terrorists': Grassley Calls On Garland To Rescind School Board Memo - YouTube

     Here ya are.  Stop reading The Guardian and educate yourself.

     Okie wrote

     Trump says a lot of things, many of them untrue. Remember when he said Mexico was going to pay for his boarder wall? How'd that go?

     I remember it very well.   I took it to be metaphorical, in that he was saying that Mexico had caused the problem and they SHOULD pay for it.   Naturally, the fake news press saw fit to take it literally so that they could throw some more mud at Trump.   And you went with them, yapping at their heels.   Trump began the border wall and Biden stopped it.    Now look at the mess the USA is in with illegal immigrants flooding your borders and draining your welfare budgets?  Once again, Trump was right.

     Okie wrote

     "The Washington Post suggests President Donald Trump told 30,573 false or misleading statements over 4 years." Politifact assessed 29 statements Trump made in his first 100 days. 17 of them were determined to be false. That's 59% of the statements checked. In contrast, Obama's false statements in his first 100 days came out to be i 1 in 12, or 8.3%, and Bidend's false statements were 2 out of 4, or 50%. "Trump... falsely discussed US murder ratesimmigration and refugees, and that he didn’t know Steve Bannon before his presidential campaign."

     Trump said that the coronavirus came from China, and he was howled down by the OketownA clones, and he was right.

     Trump told Germany to stop depending on Russian oil, and despite being howled down by European OaktownA clones, he was right.

     Trump told Germany to stop bludging on the USA for it's defence, and lift it's defence spending.  Despite being howled down by European OaktownA clones, he was right.

     Trump wanted to complete the Alaska oil pipeline to keep US oil prices down and he was howled down by the OaktownA clones, and was right.

     Trump pulled the USA out of the Climate accords because he realised that the whole damned thing was a hoax which would seriously jeopardise the US economy.    The OaktownA clones ran around frothing at the mouth for that, because they are all disciples of this Gaian religion.    Now oil prices in the USA have skyrocketed, and the US economy is in free fall with inflation 9.1%    Trump was right again.

     Trump wanted to build the border wall and Biden and Harris did everything thing they could to frustrate him when he was President.  Now South Americans are hopping over your borders and they are simply creating dysfunctional South America in North America.    Trump was right again.   

     Okie wrote

     In another discussion, I outlined the steps a person or group would have to take to enact systemic voter fraud through the mail. I can post them again, if you've forgotten.

     It is not just the postal vote,  electronic voting is once again, wide open to fraud.    The only people who understand the algorithms are the guys who wrote them.   And well paid educated elitists like them are all Democrats.

     Okie wrote

     Without evidence, and no your feelings do not count as evidence, you might as well be saying an Illuminati Cabal of witches are doing spells to keep Trump from becoming president again.

     Heard that one before.    Here in Australia, ethnic crime is out of control.    In 1993, the sundry ethnic spokespersons approached the federal socialist government and demanded that the Australian Bureau of Statistics not collate or examine any statistics related to ethnic crime in Australia.    Now when incidences of serious ethnic crime in Australia can no longer be ignored by the fake news press, the ethnic spokes men "you can't prove it."  Of course nobody can prove it anymore.  The socialists and their new voting base of ethnic criminals hid the evidence.

     A very significant proportion of US voters think that the US voting system is fraudulent.    It does not even matter if they are wrong.      The point is, that when such a large proportion of voters within a democratic country think that their voting system is corrupt, it is absolutely essential for the ruling government to validate it's legitimacy, by appointing trusted bi partisan public figures with wide ranging powers of investigation.   This including forcing witnesses to talk in order to thoroughly investigate the matter, and reassure all voters that their voting system is not corrupt.    The Dems did not do it, and it is reasonable to conclude that they knew it was fraudulent, but that the fraud benefitted the Democrats.

     Now you Dems are just saying "you can't prove it."     That is dangerous, and hardly reassures anybody.

     Okie wrote

     And who are they?

     I am not surprised that you do not know any productive people.   I presume that your peer group are all illegal immigrants, welfare dependents, and criminals?    Throw in public servants, university graduates who don't want to pay back their student loans, celebrities who's live in gated communities in the whitest areas of the USA and who go on, and on, about "racism", and educated elitist socialite socialists, and you got Democrat voters.   Which demographic is yours?

     Okie wrote

     Like the people who stormed the Capitol on 1/6/2021 to try and force the overturning of the 2020 election?

     Just like the people who stormed Boston harbour to protest against an illegitimate government that was not elected, and which only served the interests of the upper classes and the nobility.     They were rebels too.  Just like the guys who stood on Lexington Green.  You know, those "right wing gunmen."  If the idiots you support refuse to acknowledge the real concerns of their most productive citizens, who have good reason to believe that their voting system is corrupted, then they can hardly complain if their best citizens who pay the taxes the Dems use to buy votes, start to man the barricades.

    OakTownA
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 306 Pts   -   edited July 29
    Argument Topic: A Productive Citizen?

    @Bogan

    Self-styled 'QAnon shaman' is sentenced to 41 months in Capitol riot

  • @JulesKorngold

    January 6, 2021?????

    A Stain On America's History?



     Donald Trump's Conduct 


    I do not think Executive officer Trumps overall Conduct like anyone elses can even be understood in one day let alone be held in one day for blame 911 rasied the bar for me. America bears the stains of blood from far deeper wound's...some of those wounds still have hands applying direct pressure. Ask me again if and when I can get a hand free...




  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1815 Pts   -  
    OakTownA said:
    You stated: "he (Trump) was elected by popular mandate from the people"
    To that I replied: "Then why did he loose the popular vote? Clinton received 48.3% of the vote, while Trump received 46.2% in 2016.https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_election,_2016"
    You then responded: "About one half of US voters (the productive and smart people) voted for Trump.   According to the polls (if you believe them), 75% of Trump voters believe that the vote was rigged.     I agree with them."
    To which I replied: "You believe the 2016 election was rigged? The election where Trump won enough electoral votes to become president, but lost the popular vote?"
    My point was that you claimed that Trump won in 2016 with a "popular mandate from the people," yet he lost the popular vote.  Hope that helps.
    Hillary campaigned (such as it was) for the popular vote.  Pres. Trump OTOH, tailored his campaign to win the election.  
    JulesKorngold
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  
    To CYDfarta.

    Even in Australia, because of vagaries in the electoral system, it does happen that governments are elected to power that have slightly less votes than their opposition.    Nobody claims that the election is therefore "rigged".   Governments do have the power to move electoral boundaries to take advantage of changing voter demographics, and this can cause charges of vote rigging if the boundary changes are too blatant.   But overall, the the overwhelming majority of Australians consider that our elections are free and fair.

    it was very clear that Donald Trump was going to romp home in the last presidential elections.    His rallies were very well attended while Joe Biden's rallies were hardly attended at all.    The choice was between a proven strong leader and a senile old fool.   It is difficult for me to believe that the collective IQ of Americans could be so low as to elect a senile old fool over a proven strong leader who was obviously extremely popular. 

    Because of covid, many US voters chose to use the postal voting system to cast their votes.     President Trump himself warned that the US postal system, which unlike the Australian voting system which requires ID), was wide open to abuse.     Similarly, it was established that the electronic voting system was also wide open to abuse.     Then came the election.    The postal votes went (as expected) Joe Biden's way which positively proves that there are a lot of low IQ people in the USA.      As expected, Trump surged ahead in the normal street ballots.   With trump set to win, all of a sudden, millions of postal votes, which were supposed to have already been counted, came out of nowhere and  Trump lost.    That sure looks like fraud to me.    it also looks like fraud to 75% of Trump voters, who just happen to represent the most intelligent and productive people in the USA.

    As I have stated previously, when a very significant proportion of voters in a democracy believe that there is massive voter fraud in their electoral system, then the onus is upon the elected government to reassure voters that the election was fair.     The Democrats did everything possible to prevent any investigation of voter fraud.    This reinforces the widely held belief among intelligent people (you do not qualify) that the US democratic voting system is compromised by corrupt officials.     That the Democrats are corrupting US democracy was further reinforced by statements from the Democrats as to their intention to give illegal immigrants, who are not even citizens, the right to vote.    It was reinforced again by the Biden administrations claim that it would appoint more judges to the US Supreme Court, taking the number of judges from 9 to 15.    This clearly displays that the Democrats have no intention of maintaining a fair status quo ante.   They will do anything to stay in power.    No wonder those patriots stormed Congress.      It was a warning from the intelligent and productive people in the USA directed at the Democrats to stop corrupting US democracy.  
  • exconexcon 562 Pts   -  
    Bogan said:

    it was very clear that Donald Trump was going to romp home in the last presidential elections.  His rallies were very well attended while Joe Biden's rallies were hardly attended at all.  
    Hello B:

    Well, there ya go..  Trump won because he had bigger crowds.. 

    DU-DE.  And, THAT piece of insane nonsense, is HOW Trump ran the country..

    excon

    OakTownA
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  
    Another well reasoned and intensely logical submission by excon.    try writing 300 words, ma-a-a--ate.   Cmon, bud-dy, you should have the acumen to at least manage that?     I think that people who write reasoned arguments have much more credibility than hecklers and naysayers?  But, if that is the best you can manage, then it does help us Good Guys a lot.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 306 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Again, Is This One Of Your "Productive Citizens" Rioting On January 6?

    @Bogan

  • anarchist100anarchist100 672 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold
    I don't see what all the hate regarding that guy is, I get the impression that people are just racist against Scandinavians so they can't stand to see a white person dressing up as a Viking.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 672 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold
    Guess what bigot, us Scandinavians are going to keep celebrating our history and culture no matter how much hateful people like you try to destroy it.
    Die angry about it.
  • OakTownAOakTownA 348 Pts   -  
    "It is a clear indication of how extremely popular he was among voters."
    And yet, he never won the popular vote. Not in 2016, and not in 2020.

    " There always seems to be both Republicans and Democrats who love to stab their own parties and leaders in the back."
    So because his AG did not side with Trump, he's stabbing Trump in the back? There were over 50 cases brought to different courts regarding election fraud. They have all been thrown out for lack of evidence.

    "No direct evidence, but an avalanche of indirect evidence."
    Which you have yet to provide, so, no evidence.

    "Like rigging an election?"
    For which you have provided no evidence, nor has any evidence of systemic voter fraud been found in multiple investigations.

    "Trump said that the coronavirus came from China"
    No one has said otherwise. COVID-19 started and spread from China. That is true.

    "Trump told..."
    I'm not sure of your point here, and find it fascinating that you think I'm so important that I'd have thousands of clones. You are putting words into my mouth. I have said nothing about any of the statements you posted. Also, your statements in no way shape or form rebut my statement that Trump told over 30,000 lies or mistrusts over 4 years. That's over 20 lies PER DAY.

    "A very significant proportion of US voters think that the US voting system is fraudulent."
    According to whom?
    "A January 2021 Morning Consult survey of 1,990 registered voters nationwide showed 65% responded that they believe the 2020 election was "free and fair."
    "Another December 2021 poll, this one conducted by the Washington Post and the University of Maryland, asked 1,101 adults: "Regardless of whom you supported in the 2020 election, do you think Joe Biden’s election as president was legitimate, or was he not legitimately elected?" Nearly 7 in 10 respondents said Biden was legitimately elected, while 29% said he was not."
    "When Quinnipiac conducted a second poll six months after the election, the number of respondents who believed the election to be legitimate increased to nearly two-thirds. Respondents who said the contest was illegitimate dropped to 29%."

    " I am not surprised that you do not know any productive people.   I presume that your peer group are all illegal immigrants, welfare dependents, and criminals?    Throw in public servants, university graduates who don't want to pay back their student loans, celebrities who's live in gated communities in the whitest areas of the USA and who go on, and on, about "racism", and educated elitist socialite socialists, and you got Democrat voters.   Which demographic is yours?"
    Most of the people I know are productive. The only person in my peer group that meets your description is my friend, who is a disable vet, and collects a disability check. My demographic is none of the above. I am a college grad, who has payed off my student loans. I work full time. My two best friends each run their own businesses. My husband works part time while going back to school. My parents are both retired now, after being in the work force since the '60's. My brothers and their wives all work full time.

    Why do you think the US's "most productive citizens" are Trump supporters, and what evidence do you have to support you statement?
  • SkepticalMaleSkepticalMale 0 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngoldThe only stain is the MSM lies about Trump for 6 years now.
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  

    Okie wrote

     And yet, he never won the popular vote. Not in 2016, and not in 2020.

     In 2016, Donald Trump was a complete outsider, rejected by even the Republican Party that refused to back him.    The reason the Republican party refused to back him was because he was an outsider, and the Republican Party's own "insiders", who were mainly interested in their own self interest, could not control him.    Donald Trump was a man of the productive taxpaying people of America.

     One reason why around half of US voters rejected him, was because too many Americans today, through legal and illegal immigration, and birth rate differentials, have low to very low IQ, and they are dependent upon the average to very high IQ, productive, taxpayers for their welfare.    Another is, that like everywhere in the western world, the public service just keeps on growing.    And with some exceptions, the public service (who count the ballots) are left wing.    Communism can be considered "a government of the public service, by the public service, and for the public service."     Lastly, within all western societies we are seeing the growing political and influential strength of the university educated class.     These people can always be relied upon to man the barricades for every left wing cause imaginable as a way of displaying their social separation from working class people (who they regard as cretins) and middle class people, who they regard as crass, even though they are usually their own parents.

     Okie wrote

     So because his AG did not side with Trump, he's stabbing Trump in the back?

     Yes.

     Okie wrote

      There were over 50 cases brought to different courts regarding election fraud. They have all been thrown out for lack of evidence.

     I do not trust the fake news press, and this industry has lost all credibility.     CNN and MSNBC were once considered number 1 and 2 for trustworthy news, forty years ago.    But like so many institutions, they get left wing political and they threw out anybody who does not have groupthink with the directors, who also only promote those in lockstep with their groupthink.    That is why CNN and MSNBC ratings are in the toilet.      Their political bias is so blatant, it is just propaganda.   Nick Sandmann sued them for their outrageous bias towards him, and he won.    Kylie Rittenhouse is doing the same thing, for the same reason, and he will win.   I trust Fox, which is now the most watched news service because it is credible and funny.    Intelligent people watch Fox.    I will bet you don't watch Fox?

     Okie wrote

     Which you have yet to provide, so, no evidence.

     The fact that everywhere Trump went he was met by huge crowds of supporters meant that by 2022, he was obviously extremely popular with US voters.    The fact that Biden struggled to get anyone to come to his rallies clearly displayed that most of the people, even the dumb ones, just did not support him.    When Trump lost the election to a senile old fool with a corrupt son, most Trump supporters, especially those who had attended Trump rallies and had seen with their own eyes the massive support that Trump had, were shocked.      It was only natural for these voters to wonder if the vote had been rigged, especially since Donald Trump had warned about the likelihood of such an event happening.  

     The chance to dispel the idea of the vote being fair was lost, when the Democrats refused to launch an investigation.    if it had just been a few kooks making the claim that the vote was rigged, that would have been fair and reasonable.    But when around 35-40% of Us voters think that a vote is rigged, then the onus is definitely upon the newly elected government to assuage widespread public suspicions.    The fact that the Democrats refused to do that was confirmation among 35-40% of US voters,  that the vote was indeed rigged.    Those voters made a reasonable assumption that the only reason why the Democrats did not launch a thorough investigation of this extremely serious charge, was because the Democrats knew the vote was rigged and they wanted things to remain that way.       That, is the overwhelming circumstantial evidence.     

     Okie wrote

     No one has said otherwise. COVID-19 started and spread from China. That is true.

     Are you serious?    Or are you trying to be bloody funny?    With my own eyes, I saw news anchors on CNN and MSNBC sneer at Trumps valid accusation that the corona virus came from the Wuhan lab.     That "swamp" crook Dr Fauci, who was implicated in the creation of this virus which killed around 50 million people world wide, tried to deflect blame for his own involvement, by saying that anyone who thought that the virus came from a lab in china was "an ."

     That was all the fake news press needed to run with, and they collectively smeared President Trump.   Their logic?    Dr Fauci said anyone who believes the virus was lab created was an .    Trump said it was lab created.     Therefore, they claimed with a flourish, this proved that President Trump was an . 

    "Proving" President Trump was an was all that mattered.   The truth, be damned.  Anyone who went on social media and claimed that the virus was lab created had their accounts suspended.    The left wing fake news media and their filthy rich social media mates did their utmost to portray Trump as an , and they were not going to tolerate any facts or opinions which proved otherwise.   When the fake news media could no longer deny that the virus was created in China, it was actually funny to watch CNN and MSNBC news anchors claiming that there was "new information" that the virus was Chinese made, completely ignoring the fact that they had been slamming President Trump for months, over him saying exactly the same thing.     They just could not bring themselves to admit that President Trump had been right all along, and they had been laughably wrong all along.

     For you to now come on here and claim that "everybody knew it had been created in a lab", makes me wonder about your sanity, your IQ level, or your commitment to the truth?     There are people on this site who know what I wrote is perfectly true.    For you to play the ignorant, only demolishes your own credibility.

     Okie wrote

     I'm not sure of your point here, and find it fascinating that you think I'm so important that I'd have thousands of clones. You are putting words into my mouth. I have said nothing about any of the statements you posted. Also, your statements in no way shape or form rebut my statement that Trump told over 30,000 lies or mistrusts over 4 years. That's over 20 lies PER DAY.

     From the same fake news press who said that Trump was an because he thought that the virus was created in a lab in China?     The same fake news press that could not admit he was right?    I don't believe anything The Global Times, Pravda, The BBC, the ABC, or CNN, or MSNBC says.    The best rule of thumb for working out the truth, is to listen to what they say, and then believe the opposite.   

     Okie wrote

     Most of the people I know are productive. The only person in my peer group that meets your description is my friend, who is a disable vet, and collects a disability check. My demographic is none of the above. I am a college grad, who has payed off my student loans. I work full time. My two best friends each run their own businesses. My husband works part time while going back to school. My parents are both retired now, after being in the work force since the '60's. My brothers and their wives all work full time.

     A university educated elitist?    Yair, that figures.    Many university educated people work in the public service and they collect a weekly wage.    That this technically makes them "working class" fills them all with horror.     Because they have a degree, they feel that they are a cut above the working class.   They have become members of a growing class of university elitists who think that they are God's gift to the human race.    What defines this new class is not wealth, or the way they earn their living, but attitudes.   To be considered a card carry member of this Brahmin caste of pseudo aristocrats, you must take a left wing position on everything, and it is obligatory for you to support certain causes which are traditionally rejected by the majority.    And also, to reject causes traditionally supported by the majority.     This displays to everybody how "different" you are, and it gives you all a warm inner glow social superiority, and of personnel sanctimony.

     Okie wrote

     Why do you think the US's "most productive citizens" are Trump supporters, and what evidence do you have to support you statement?

     That is how the left is getting votes, all around the western world.     The left supports multiculturalism, which means it supports the importation of dysfunctional minorities into western countries as a way of destroying the west (which you just happen to live in) and to get massive political support from these newly imported dysfunctional people, by putting them on white welfare.      The proof is in the pudding.    As dysfunctional minorities move into prosperous white communities, up goes the crime and welfare rate.     Crooked politicians, mindful of the growing political power of the dysfunctional minorities, seek to tax the productive to pay the welfare of the non productive and counter productive.     Eventually, the productive pack up and flee to places where their talents and productivity is appreciated and the high tax, spend, spend, spend Democrat areas become bankrupt, crime infested and welfare dependent black holes.     Examples, California, Detroit, Chigaco, Mineapolis, and New York.

     It is clear that the USA is dividing politically on mainly racial lines.     The Democrats seek to appeal to the dysfunctional minorities in every social issue, and denounce the Republicans for being "racists".     In other words, the Republicans represent white people.     

  • OakTownAOakTownA 348 Pts   -  
    You previously said:
    "It is a clear indication of how extremely popular he was among voters."
    After I pointed out that he lost the popular vote in both 2016 and 2020, now you are saying: "In 2016, Donald Trump was a complete outsider, rejected by even the Republican Party that refused to back him. " So which is it? Was he extremely popular or an outsider? Also, I'm not sure you understand how presidential candidates are chosen in the US. In order to be the Republican nominee for president,  Trump won the most primaries, and was basically elected to be the nominee by Republicans, including the elites.

    "One reason why around half of US voters rejected him, was because too many Americans today, through legal and illegal immigration, and birth rate differentials, have low to very low IQ, and they are dependent upon the average to very high IQ, productive, taxpayers for their welfare."
    On what are you basing this assertion. Proof, please, or you are just posting racist nonsense. I'd put my IQ up against yours any day.

    "And with some exceptions, the public service (who count the ballots) are left wing. "
    Which jobs you consider "public service?" What evidence do you have that they are all "left wing."

    "Lastly, within all western societies we are seeing the growing political and influential strength of the university educated class."
    Like the US's Founding Fathers? Once again, proof, or it's just your opinion.

    " I will bet you don't watch Fox?"
    I don't watch any news channels. I prefer to get my news through AP or Routers. And Fox does everything you accused MSNBC and CNN of doing. And Fox reported that Trump lost 2020 election, and it was not stolen:
    "A group of prominent conservatives released a new report Thursday outlining their investigation into the 2020 election and have concluded former President Trump's claims of a stolen election are unfounded. "
    "Joe Biden defeated Trump to win the presidency,"

    " The fact that everywhere Trump went he was met by huge crowds of supporters meant that by 2022, he was obviously extremely popular with US voters.    The fact that Biden struggled to get anyone to come to his rallies clearly displayed that most of the people, even the dumb ones, just did not support him."
    Or Biden's supporters respected the fact that we were, and still are, in the middle of a global pandemic, so did not want to risk getting sick or getting someone else sick by attending crowded events. Again, just because someone has a large turn out does not going to mean they will win. Sanders also had large turnout, but he didn't win his primaries. You are making an Argument ad Populum fallacy.

    "With my own eyes, I saw news anchors on CNN and MSNBC sneer at Trumps valid accusation that the corona virus came from the Wuhan lab."
    There's a big difference between saying "COVID-19 originated in China," and saying "COVID-19  was created in a lab in China." Yes, the COVID-19 pandemic started in China. There is no evidence that it was created in a lab in China or anywhere else.
    "U.S. President Donald Trump suggested SARS-CoV-2 originated in a laboratory in Wuhan, China—and called it “the China virus”—but he never presented evidence, and few in the scientific community took him seriously. In fact, early in the pandemic, a group of prominent researchers dismissed lab-origin notions as “conspiracy theories” in a letter in The Lancet. A report from a World Health Organization (WHO) “joint mission,” which sent a scientific team to China in January to explore possible origins with Chinese colleagues, described a lab accident as “extremely unlikely.”"
    "No breakthrough studies have been published. The highly anticipated U.S. intelligence review, delivered to Biden on 24 August, reached no firm conclusions, but leaned toward the theory that the virus has a natural origin."
    "Despite the impasse, many scientists say the existing evidence—including early epidemiological patterns, SARS-CoV-2’s genomic makeup, and a recent paper about animal markets in Wuhan—makes it far more probable that the virus, like many emerging pathogens, made a natural “zoonotic” jump from animals to humans."
    "In addition to the theory that COVID-19 is transmitted from bats to humans, it was found that natural selection is the reason behind the binding of the mutated SARS-COV-2 spike protein to the human-like angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor. Besides that, the polybasic cleavage site of this novel coronavirus shows a possibility that it arises through a natural-occurring evolutionary process. The criterion for the enhancement of binding between a precursor virus and the ACE2 receptor is concluded elsewhere [13]. On the other hand, there was an inference on the origin of SARS-COV-2 where the precursor of the virus acquired genomic features through adaptation after a zoonotic transmission and the insertion of its polybasic cleavage site during direct transmission between humans [14]."
    "In conclusion, all these specific features observed in SARS-COV-2 helps scientists to rule out the idea that this pandemic caused by the novel coronavirus is the result of a man-made action that could be either engineered in the laboratory or further created as a bioweapon out of conspiracy."

    "For you to now come on here and claim that "everybody knew it had been created in a lab","
    Again, I did not claim that. I stated it started in China. That does not mean I believe it was started in a lab in China. Your original post said nothing about COVID being lab created.

    " I don't believe anything The Global Times, Pravda, The BBC, the ABC, or CNN, or MSNBC says. "
    You obviously did bother to look at any of the links I provided.
    There are 12 pages of lies he told since 2015.
    Forbes found that Trump told more lies during the first 100 days than Obama or Biden:
    How about this report from The Hill:

     "A university educated elitist?    Yair, that figures.    Many university educated people work in the public service and they collect a weekly wage.    That this technically makes them "working class" fills them all with horror.     Because they have a degree, they feel that they are a cut above the working class."
    Am I university educated? Yes. Am I an elitist? F*&#k no; I'm working class, descended from working class people, and damn proud of it.

    "To be considered a card carry member of this Brahmin caste of pseudo aristocrats, you must take a left wing position on everything, and it is obligatory for you to support certain causes which are traditionally rejected by the majority. "
    Let me guess, you have no proof that this is the case, other than your feelings. Facts don't care about your feelings, so present facts that support your claim.

    "welfare dependent black holes.     Examples, California, Detroit, Chigaco, Mineapolis, and New York."
    The top 10 states with the most spending on welfare per capita are as follows as of 2018:
    1. New York
    2. Alaska
    3. Massachusetts
    4. Vermont
    5. Minnesota
    6. New Mexico
    7. Delaware
    8. Maine
    9. Oregon
    10. Kentucky
    Notice how of the places you listed, only one is on this list.
    Also, 43% of welfare recipients are white, as are 40% of SNAP (food stamps) recipients. Over 60% of people on Medi-Care (government health care) work:
    The top 10 states that receive the most funding from the federal government are conservative:

    " It is clear that the USA is dividing politically on mainly racial lines.     The Democrats seek to appeal to the dysfunctional minorities in every social issue, and denounce the Republicans for being "racists".     In other words, the Republicans represent white people."
    You have stated this multiple times without anything to support your statement. Once again, proof, or it is nothing but your opinion.
  • BoganBogan 168 Pts   -  

     Okie wrote

     After I pointed out that he lost the popular vote in both 2016 and 2020, now you are saying: "In 2016, Donald Trump was a complete outsider, rejected by even the Republican Party that refused to back him. " So which is it? Was he extremely popular or an outsider?

     Donald Trump may not have been as popular prior to his election as President, because he was an outsider and a political unknown.

     Okie wrote

     Also, I'm not sure you understand how presidential candidates are chosen in the US. In order to be the Republican nominee for president,  Trump won the most primaries, and was basically elected to be the nominee by Republicans, including the elites.

     Trump was initially opposed by the Republican Party machine because he was a political outsider, and he was not one of the Republican Chosen Ones.  Even ex President Bush junior declared that he would not vote  for Trump.     It was only when the id-iots  realised that he was becoming extremely popular with the Republican Party base (the productive, tax paying, largely white people) that they reluctantly backed him.

     Okie wrote

     On what are you basing this assertion. Proof, please, or you are just posting racist nonsense.

     On what I read in my quality newspaper (The Australian) and what I saw on Sky News, and Fox news.    On what do you base yours?  The local gossip in the coffee shop when you get your latte with no sugar?

     Okie wrote

     I'd put my IQ up against yours any day.

     You are doing just that, at the moment, and you are doing badly.

     Okie wrote

     Which jobs you consider "public service?" What evidence do you have that they are all "left wing."

     Public service departments throughout the western world are renowned for there left leaning political opinions.    If you haven't figured that out yet, then you had better get out of your wine bar and have a look around.   Australia's capitol, (Canberra) is chock a block full of public servants and unsurprisingly, it is a Labor socialist stronghold.    The only public servant departments that have largely right wing opinions are the Police, armed forces, and uniformed organisations like the border guards.      US border guards hate Biden and they love Trump.

     Okie wrote

     Like the US's Founding Fathers? Once again, proof, or it's just your opinion.

     Then my opinion is that today's educated elitists are just spoiled brats, who wallow in their virtue signaling and their left wing ideals as a fashion statement.    I will bet that you don't even know why you despise President Trump?   It is just something that as a diplomad elitist, you are expected to have as a fashion statement.

     You are just an educated elitist, the sort who ruined Portland, Seattle and California, and now you think it is fashionable to ruin your whole country.       You  believe in complete nonsense like Anthropomorphic Global Warming, not because you have ever spent any time looking at both sides of the debate.  (like I did)  You believe it because you are a member of the university educated caste who think they know everything.  You believe in AGW because it is expected by your peers to believe it.    You are told by your peers that Donald Trump is an , and global warming is real, and that anyone who believes otherwise is a cre-tin.    And you don't want your peers to thing you are a cre-tin, do you?   So, you believe in things you never bothered to understand because your self image means more to you than facts.    The Geeks call stu-pidity based upon arrogance "hubris."

     Okie wrote

     I don't watch any news channels. I prefer to get my news through AP or Routers. And Fox does everything you accused MSNBC and CNN of doing. And Fox reported that Trump lost 2020 election, and it was not stolen:

     Gee, that's funny.    Fox is number 1 in the ratings.  Why?   Because the thinking public have infinitely more trust in Fox that the left wing, fake news press, that you have gotten brainwashed by.   One department of Fox may have claimed that it was not stolen.   But other Fox anchors had a different opinion.

     Okie wrote

     "A group of prominent conservatives released a new report Thursday outlining their investigation into the 2020 election and have concluded former President Trump's claims of a stolen election are unfounded. "

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/prominent-conservatives-election-lost-not-stolen

    "Joe Biden defeated Trump to win the presidency,"

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/message-of-election-2020-trump-lost-but-trumpism-did-not

     Okay, Okie, let's look at that.   First of all, Fox is obviously impartial because it even submits news items in it'sthat can damage the right wing cause.    Second, I don't know who these "conservatives" really are?    But as I have stated previously, there are people even within the Republican Party who hate Donald Trump, and they would rather see him lose an election, than get a Republican government under him into power.   They hated Trump because he was not from the Republican Party machine and could not be controlled by the puppeteers.    So, I don't believe a word they say. 

     Okie wrote

     Or Biden's supporters respected the fact that we were, and still are, in the middle of a global pandemic, so did not want to risk getting sick or getting someone else sick by attending crowded events. Again, just because someone has a large turn out does not going to mean they will win. Sanders also had large turnout, but he didn't win his primaries. You are making an Argument ad Populum fallacy.

     Well, Trump voters had more guts than Biden voters, because supporting their President and the USA was more important than worrying too much about their health.   The fact remains that Trump was extremely popular, so popular that everywhere he went, even with covid, there were surging crowds of supporters.    Presidential candidates are always met with strong crowds at Presidential rallies.    But rather incredibly, in the last election, it was only one side that had tumultuous crowds supporting a candidate.    On the other side, hardly anyone bothered to show up.    One TV reporter, looking at a massive crowd supporting Trump said "It is obvious who is going to win, isn't it?"    It was obvious.   That's why most Trump supporters think that the election was rigged.    Just like many intelligent Americans know that the assassination of John F. Kennedy was rigged.   The USA just had another coup and you smart elitists can't see it.

     Okie wrote

     There's a big difference between saying "COVID-19 originated in China," and saying "COVID-19  was created in a lab in China." Yes, the COVID-19 pandemic started in China. There is no evidence that it was created in a lab in China or anywhere else.

     There is "no evidence" because those farking Chinese bastards, the ones who are paying off Biden and his son, hid the evidence.   They "disappeared" anyone associated with the lab work, and used their influence with WHO to white wash the investigation.    They even imposed sanctions on my country when our Prime Minister called for an independent investigation.  Since when did you become an agent for the PRC, excusing their criminal negligence by saying "you can't prove it?     If you are taking China's side, then you might begin to understand why so many patriotic Americans despise educated elitists like you?  Patriotism is not in your DNA.

     Okie wrote

     "U.S. President Donald Trump suggested SARS-CoV-2 originated in a laboratory in Wuhan, China—and called it “the China virus”—but he never presented evidence, and few in the scientific community took him seriously. In fact, early in the pandemic, a group of prominent researchers dismissed lab-origin notions as “conspiracy theories” in a letter in The Lancet.

     Like, are you kidding?    One of the guys who wrote the report for Lancet was one of the guys who was profiting from the genetic research, which even Obama had banned from being carried out in the USA.   It turned out that that arch bastard Dr Fauci had approved the funds that ended up in the Chinese weapons lab that created the virus.    You had better get your head out of your fashion magazine and keep abreast of what is happening around you.    And another thing.   The fact that even a prestigious medical research magazine like Lancet can be politicised and publish false news to hide the criminal involvement of their public service mates like Fauci, should be a concern to you?

     Okie wrote

     A report from a World Health Organization (WHO) “joint mission,” which sent a scientific team to China in January to explore possible origins with Chinese colleagues, described a lab accident as “extremely unlikely.”"

     Of course they did.   While the USA pays most of the money to keep WHO in business, the Chinese pay about 10% of the US contribution.    But the Chinese spend it more wisely.  Their money goes into the pockets of the WHO officials, like Tedros Ghali, who the Chinese supported as a candidate for the leadership of WHO.     Ghali supported the Chinese communist bastards right up until the time when everybody knew he was in the pocket of the CCP.   To save face and get some credibility, he turned on his Chinese paymasters because his denials were getting too lame to be credible.   Where have you been?   Didn't you even know this?    You gotta stop smoking that wacky tobaccy.

     Okie wrote

     "No breakthrough studies have been published. The highly anticipated U.S. intelligence review, delivered to Biden on 24 August, reached no firm conclusions, but leaned toward the theory that the virus has a natural origin."

     "Despite the impasse, many scientists say the existing evidence—including early epidemiological patterns, SARS-CoV-2’s genomic makeup, and a recent paper about animal markets in Wuhan—makes it far more probable that the virus, like many emerging pathogens, made a natural “zoonotic” jump from animals to humans."

    https://www.science.org/content/article/why-many-scientists-say-unlikely-sars-cov-2-originated-lab-leak

     "In addition to the theory that COVID-19 is transmitted from bats to humans, it was found that natural selection is the reason behind the binding of the mutated SARS-COV-2 spike protein to the human-like angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor. Besides that, the polybasic cleavage site of this novel coronavirus shows a possibility that it arises through a natural-occurring evolutionary process. The criterion for the enhancement of binding between a precursor virus and the ACE2 receptor is concluded elsewhere [13]. On the other hand, there was an inference on the origin of SARS-COV-2 where the precursor of the virus acquired genomic features through adaptation after a zoonotic transmission and the insertion of its polybasic cleavage site during direct transmission between humans [14]."

    "In conclusion, all these specific features observed in SARS-COV-2 helps scientists to rule out the idea that this pandemic caused by the novel coronavirus is the result of a man-made action that could be either engineered in the laboratory or further created as a bioweapon out of conspiracy."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7982270/

     My God!    You are still trying to claim that the virus was natural?    No wonder you voted for Biden.   What is it like, Okie, being down in the garden, dancing with the fairies?      I thought that you university types were supposed to be smart?   I know!   You are actually PamelaJohnson and you think that the world is flat, too?

     Okie wrote

     Again, I did not claim that. I stated it started in China. That does not mean I believe it was started in a lab in China. Your original post said nothing about COVID being lab created.

     Sorry, Okie.   Everybody who had a functioning brain knew it had been created in a lab.      What happened to your brain?

      Now, let's see?    An entirely new bat virus is discovered in Wuhan, China?    Well, whadayaknow?    There is a virology lab in Wuhan that specializes in bat virus's.   Think their just might be a connection, Okie?    The lab was built by the French as a good will gesture to China.   After it was built, the French got chucked out of the lab they had built and a Chinese General took it over.   Gee willackers. Okie, you say that you are smart, do you think that it might be possible that the lab was being used to genetically engineer a  weapon?    Cmon, Gal.  You are supposed to be smart.  Why would a Chinese Army general take over the running of a biology lab?     The US embassy in Wuhan had warned the US government that US funds should not be provided to so that the Chinese could conduct biological research as the lab was considered very unsafe.    Dr Fauci went behind the US governments back to provide funds so that the Chinese could conduct research that was banned in the USA as too dangerous.    By doing so, he was helping the Chinese government create a biological weapon with US funds.     Hollywood couldn't make this up.    Ad Biden defended Fauci.    It is just another example of how the US government bureaucracy, Trump's "swamp" , is right out of control.

     Okie wrote

     You obviously did bother to look at any of the links I provided.

     No, I didn't.   As I have stated to other contributors on this site, I don't debate links.  For four years, the USA's best president since Ronald Reagan was the target of an organised campaign from a wide variety of people, who just despised him for many reasons.    They made false allegation after false allegation, which forced the President to endlessly defend himself, instead of doing his job.    So, if another bunch or ratbags claim he is doing something insidious, I am just not listening.   From my perspective, everything Trump did was absolutely right.   I see even that senile fool Biden has ordered work to begin again on the southern border wall?    That, after telling everybody in a TV address that he would not build "one more inch" of that wall.    As usual, Trump was right all along.

    Okie wrote

     Am I university educated? Yes. Am I an elitist? F*&#k no; I'm working class, descended from working class people, and damn proud of it.

      "A university educated elitist?    Yair, that figures.    Many university educated people work in the public service and they collect a weekly wage.    That this technically makes them "working class" fills them all with horror.     Because they have a degree, they feel that they are a cut above the working class."    I am not sure if the ones who came from the working class are worse than the ones who got there because of family money and connections.   I think that the ones from the working class are the ones who are most desperate to seem upwardly mobile.    They will accept any cause their more well off peers dream up to fit in with their class expectations.    You aspire to be a member of the socialite socialists, don't you?    So, you adopt every left wing cause they champion because it is expected of you.      

     Oki wrote

     Let me guess, you have no proof that this is the case, other than your feelings. Facts don't care about your feelings, so present facts that support your claim.

     Ooooh!    Look who's making unsupported assumptions now?       I have a pretty good idea how the world works, Okie.       Educated elitists are so stu-pid because they think that their chosen caste of brahmins are always right.    So, instead of ever thinking about anything. all they have to do to display how "smart" they are is to chant the groupthink mantra.

     Okie wrote

    According to this article from Fox: https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/states-that-spend-the-most-on-welfare

    The top 10 states with the most spending on welfare per capita are as follows as of 2018:

    1. New York    New York tends to be democratic based on voting results in recent elections.

    2. Alaska   Alaska regularly supports Republicans in presidential elections and has done so since statehood. 

    3. Massachusetts    The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is often categorized politically as progressive and liberal. It is generally considered the most left-leaning state in the US, and all of the state’s Congressional representatives and both US senators are Democrats, while Democrats also form the large majority of the state’s legislature, though the state has a history of electing Republican governors.

    4. Vermont   The Democratic Party is currently the dominant party in Vermont. The party has almost complete control of the state, 

    5. Minnesota Minnesotans have voted for Democratic presidential candidates ever since 1976, more times consecutively than any other state outside of the south, and longer than any state. 

    6. New Mexico  And well american indians and hispanics, which together form a majority in the state, tend to vote pretty democratic, also you have to consider that New Mexico is sadly, one of the poorest states and poor people tend to vote more democratic. 

    7. Delaware    Delaware tends to be democratic based on voting results in recent elections. Compared to other nearby states, Delaware has more republican voters. Compared to the nation as a whole, Delaware leans more democratic.

    8. Maine    Maine tends to be slightly democratic based on voting results in recent elections. 

    9. Oregon   Oregon votes Democratic because the majority of the population lives in Portland. Portland is extremely liberal. 

    10. Kentucky  Kentucky is a state that traditionally Democrat but sometimes votes Republican.

    Notice how of the places you listed, only one is on this list.

     9 out of ten of them are Democratic states.   Alaska is the only exception, probably because of the high number of indigenous people. 

     1. New York    New York tends to be democratic based on voting results in recent elections.

    2. Alaska   Alaska regularly supports Republicans in presidential elections and has done so since statehood. 

    3. Massachusetts    The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is often categorized politically as progressive and liberal. It is generally considered the most left-leaning state in the US, and all of the state’s Congressional representatives and both US senators are Democrats, while Democrats also form the large majority of the state’s legislature, though the state has a history of electing Republican governors.

    4. Vermont   The Democratic Party is currently the dominant party in Vermont. The party has almost complete control of the state, 

    5. Minnesota Minnesotans have voted for Democratic presidential candidates ever since 1976, more times consecutively than any other state outside of the south, and longer than any state. 

    6. New Mexico  And well american indians and hispanics, which together form a majority in the state, tend to vote pretty democratic, also you have to consider that New Mexico is sadly, one of the poorest states and poor people tend to vote more democratic. 

    7. Delaware    Delaware tends to be democratic based on voting results in recent elections. Compared to other nearby states, Delaware has more republican voters. Compared to the nation as a whole, Delaware leans more democratic.

    8. Maine    Maine tends to be slightly democratic based on voting results in recent elections. 

    9. Oregon   Oregon votes Democratic because the majority of the population lives in Portland. Portland is extremely liberal. 

    10. Kentucky is a state that traditionally votes Democrat, but sometimes votes Republican.

     Okie wrote

     Also, 43% of welfare recipients are white, as are 40% of SNAP (food stamps) recipients. Over 60% of people on Medi-Care (government health care) work:

     

    Sorry, I don't believe that, any more than I believe that President Trump was in Putin's pocket.   Black African areas of the USA are economic black holes.    One report I read about US African Americans is said that ..... 

     "Although African-Americans make-up about 13% of the American population, they are responsible for less than 2% (yes) of taxes. White Americans are responsible for well over 97% of the tax base. In other words, White American workers "pay" for the housing, education, clothes, medicine, medical treatment, transportation, and entertainment costs of 40% of African-Americans (the "Ghetto Blacks")."   (Biting the Hand that Feeds Them. The Political and Biological Roots of
    Black-on-White Violence in America)

    Okie wrote

    You have stated this multiple times without anything to support your statement. Once again, proof, or it is nothing but your opinion.

     You must have missed Joe Biden when he was challenged by a (smart) African American and he said "If you don't vote for me, you ain't black."    Joe knows who his voters are.    I find it incredible that a university grad like you can't figure it out.

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