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Your thoughts on Ukraine

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what do You know about Ukraine? what do You think of Ukraine and why? what are the stereotypes You know about this country? 



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  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 362 Pts   -   edited September 29
    I wonder whether the West should give Ukraine anything it wants except nukes.  Would sending troops start World War III?
  • DeeDee 4846 Pts   -   edited September 29
    I’ve no time for Zelensky or Ukraine. Ukraine has regularly been in  the top 10 list of most corrupt countries in the world and most corrupt in Europe even putting Russia to shame in this 

    All one sees daily now is Zelensky posing with A list celebs always in military attire and begging for yet more money , European countries and countries worldwide place massive amounts of money into Ukraines coffers while neglecting serious issues of poverty and homelessness in their own countries they do so because every country wants to be perceived as Zelensky friend otherwise he accuses those countries who don’t support filling Ukraines begging bowl of being anti Ukrainian and pro Russian 

    Zelensky in no angel  as a bit of research will demonstrate , unfortunately when it’s all over governments around the world will trip over each other to award Zelensky their countries highest awards and we will have to suffer his egotistical bleatings on chat shows for years to come where no doubt he will still don military garb …….Cha Ching …….

    BTW this is not to say I’m a fan of Russia I detest Putin and all he stands for I also detest the majority of Russian citizens who are cowardly dogs in they way they support Putin and his continued lunacy 

    It says it all about modern Russia when at the outbreak of the invasion a very elderly brave woman and a survivor of Leningrad protested against Putin’s excesses and she was strong armed by Putin’s “hero’s” into a police van as “brave “ young Russian citizens stood around filiming the event to post on You Tube   and FB for unlimited likes …..cowardly dogs 
  • DariaDaria 7 Pts   -  
    well, depending what We would consider to be World War lll. some would consider it to be so, especially russia, some would not for battles would most likely still be on a territory of Ukraine. 
    @JulesKorngold
  • DariaDaria 7 Pts   -  
    You truly did say quite a lot for the one who "has no time" for such a topic. alright, You know about war and You have quite strong position regarding both countries. know something else but corruption and war? 
    @Dee
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4800 Pts   -  
    Very poor, corrupt and retrograde place. One of the worst places in Europe to live, even before the Russian invasion. It is quite a bit more free than Russia, and the population in its western part is much more Europe-oriented - but that is hardly any consolation when its quality of life is comparable to that in many African countries.

    I much prefer my childhood and teen years in Russia to what they would have been like in Ukraine. In Russia, at least, I had access to some quality STEM education that allowed me to leave it on favorable terms and have a shining career ahead on the West. Had I grown up in Ukraine, there would be very few perspectives for me, and were I to move to the West, I would probably have to start building up my life from scratch.

    Both Russia and Ukraine are dumps compared to any developed country out there, and I can say very few good things about either. There are some undeveloped authoritarian countries out there that still, at least, have thriving cultures and growing markets - China and Saudi Arabia come to mind - but these post-Soviet places have been obliterated by nearly a century of communism and then decades of national-socialism, and there is nothing to catch there.
  • DeeDee 4846 Pts   -  
    @Daria

    You truly did say quite a lot for the one who "has no time" for such a topic.

    Where did I say I’ve no time for topic you Id-iot?

     alright, You know about war and You have quite strong position regarding both countries. know something else but corruption and war? 


    What does this even mean ?
  • Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.




  • anarchist100anarchist100 713 Pts   -  
    At first, I though Putin would win, now, if I am not being misinformed on the topic, the Ukrainians seem to be winning, I just hope that Putin can accept defeat without causing a nuclear war, I think he understands how much of a bad idea that is, however, in his mind being defeated in Ukraine might mean the end of Russia, as they would likely join NATO, so he might do it anyway, and then we're in deep doodoo.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 713 Pts   -  
    Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.


    Yeah, I guess Ukraine is a lot different than their friend America in that regard.
  • BoganBogan 203 Pts   -  
    Britain, France and Germany have been at each others throats for centuries.    They are traditional rivals and enemies.    But today, nobody in Britain fears an invasion from France, and nobody in France fears an invasion by Germany.     Norway does not fear invasion from Sweden.      Denmark does not fear invasion from Holland.    Malta does not fear invasion from Italy.   Why?  All of these nations are democracies, and democracies do not make war on democracies.     Russia could be a democracy and a valued member of the European community.    It has magnificent historical places and an abundance of resources that Europe desperately needs.      it's population is predominantly white, well educated, and intelligent.     

    But as usual, there are elitist forces inside of Russia who like having a totalitarian system run by their fellow elites, and they want no part of democracy.    As totalitarians, they need an enemy to use to try and unite the people behind them.      In this case it is The West, which is supposedly plotting Russia's downfall.    That is complete bollocks, but unfortunately, too many Russians seem to believe it.

    Ukraine has evolved from a communist state to a democracy, but it was not a transition that came easily.     Like in Russia, it to had to undergoe a period where kleptocrats had too much power, and the place was very corrupt.     But that this is not a state which defines the majority of Ukrainians can be seen in the self sacrifice that Ukrainian people  exhibit, every day.     That like Russians, these are fineand worthy  people, can be seen in the example that their President set when he refused to be evacuated from Kiev when the Russians almost had the capitol surrounded.    compare that to Nguyan Cao Ky in South Vietnam and the President of Afghanistan, who fled their resective countries at the first opportunity with their ill gotten Swiss bank accounts.

    Putin wants to re establish the USSR, which is like Britain re establishing the British empire.   Ain't gunna happen.    But he is trying.    He attacked Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, and now Ukraine.   Always it was the same excuse.    If the majority of people in a particular place were Russians, then that was Russian land.    The same excuse Hitler gave to invade Poland and Czechoslovakia .   But like Hitler and Czechoslovakia, Putin wanted all of Ukraine.     The fight that the Ukrainians are putting up for their freedom is an inspiration to us all.     I hope that the western democracies continue to give Ukraine every damned thing the Ukrainians need to destroy the Russian Army.   Hopefully, this will lead to the downfall of the Putin regime and hopefully, Russia will emerge a democracy and be welcomed back into European unity.    That is my hope.      All of this death and destruction, dead Ukrainian men, women and children.  Dead Russian soldiers.       And all because of the vanity of one man who wanted to be exulted after his death as a new Peter the Great.      But the only memory of Putin will be that reserved for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and every other lunatic who murdered their way into power, with the connivance of political elites, who saw advantage to themselves of a system where they and their friends had total control, and the population, no control. 
  • Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.


    Yeah, I guess Ukraine is a lot different than their friend America in that regard.
    America and the West have been held accountable for any war crimes they have committed and collateral damage. Russia hasn't. I guess this isn't your strong point.



  • BarnardotBarnardot 238 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42
    Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.

    In every war there are war crimes and any way Ukraine was asking for it. No one mentions all the Russians that the Ukraines kept knocking off over there border and you cant do them for war crimes because there was no war any way then.

  • Barnardot said:
    @ZeusAres42
    Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.

    In every war there are war crimes and any way Ukraine was asking for it. No one mentions all the Russians that the Ukraines kept knocking off over there border and you cant do them for war crimes because there was no war any way then.



    Could you repeat that in English, please?



  • anarchist100anarchist100 713 Pts   -  
    Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.


    Yeah, I guess Ukraine is a lot different than their friend America in that regard.
    America and the West have been held accountable for any war crimes they have committed and collateral damage. Russia hasn't. I guess this isn't your strong point.

    Not really, the no one was held responsible for what was revealed in the collateral murder videos, only one person was held accountable for the American torture program, Obama and Bush where never held accountable for starting unnecessary foreign wars that killed hundreds of thousands, Obama was never held accountable for a drone program that killed innocent people 90% of the time.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4800 Pts   -  
    @anarchist100

    At least, the US military court system relentlessly punishes individuals who have crossed the line, there is a widespread condemnation of the military leaders' actions both inside and outside the US, and few people believe that Obama's and Bush' military shenanigans are medal-worthy.

    What about Russia? Putin still, after all the recent failures, is largely worshiped by the Russian population, he has actually annexed multiple territories by force over just the past 15 years, foreign leaders danced with him and sang him praises up until this March despite everything, and Russian soldiers, generals and intelligence officers get away with the most grievous crimes against humanity - hell, they get promoted for it.

    Your anti-American zeal blinds you to reality. As much as there is to criticize the US government for, American politicians are angels compared to politicians in most countries out there. Russia is a pretty extreme example, but have you looked into what is happening in politics in softer regimes, such as Brazil, or India, or Argentina? Just because you happen to live in the US, and just because the whole world bashes the US 24/7, does not mean that the US is largely a force for evil in the world.
    ZeusAres42
  • BarnardotBarnardot 238 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42
    Could you repeat that in English, please?

    That

    jack
  • BarnardotBarnardot 238 Pts   -  
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2233 Pts   -   edited October 1
    Barnardot said:

    Would you actually like to explain your previous point or are you happy with concluding you have won an argument just by confusing me with babble?  @Barnardot



  • Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.


    Yeah, I guess Ukraine is a lot different than their friend America in that regard.
    America and the West have been held accountable for any war crimes they have committed and collateral damage. Russia hasn't. I guess this isn't your strong point.

    Not really, the no one was held responsible for what was revealed in the collateral murder videos, only one person was held accountable for the American torture program, Obama and Bush where never held accountable for starting unnecessary foreign wars that killed hundreds of thousands, Obama was never held accountable for a drone program that killed innocent people 90% of the time.

    @anarchist100 More conspiracy theories I am guessing? I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news bruh but it's empirical evidence that usually prevails over unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.



  • anarchist100anarchist100 713 Pts   -  
    Well, there is no evidence of them committing war crimes as of late, killing hundreds of innocent civilians. There is plenty of that to be found in Russia though.


    Yeah, I guess Ukraine is a lot different than their friend America in that regard.
    America and the West have been held accountable for any war crimes they have committed and collateral damage. Russia hasn't. I guess this isn't your strong point.

    Not really, the no one was held responsible for what was revealed in the collateral murder videos, only one person was held accountable for the American torture program, Obama and Bush where never held accountable for starting unnecessary foreign wars that killed hundreds of thousands, Obama was never held accountable for a drone program that killed innocent people 90% of the time.

    @anarchist100 More conspiracy theories I am guessing? I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news bruh but it's empirical evidence that usually prevails over unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.
    Lol, not theories my Lissencephalic friend, proven facts, the collateral murder videos are proven, go look up the video, see for yourself, so was the American torture program, see the pictures for yourself, even the people who did it don't deny it, they defend it, just goes to show how evil their followers are, and what also is proven is that the Iraq war and the Libyan war where unnecessary and evil, Iraq was because Bush and Cheney wanted to get rich, so they lied about weapons of mass-destruction, and Libya was because America and France didn't want Gaddafi liberating Africa from economic enslavement, and thanks to Daniel Hale, we have the government documents to prove that Obama's drone program killed innocent civilians 90% of the time, and who's in jail for all of these things? Aside from only one of the people involved in the torture program, some chick who took a selfie) only the people who exposed these crimes.
    ZeusAres42
  • BarnardotBarnardot 238 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42
    Would you actually like to explain your previous point or are you happy with concluding you have won an argument just by confusing me with babble? 

    Well Im sorry for that but Im starting to get like some guys here who have a go at you and get reel sarcastic. So what I was doing was being literal and just wrote that which I suppose is the previous point. And then I wrote it again because then that means I repeated it. So I was deliberately sarcastic and am sorry for that.

    ZeusAres42
  • BarnardotBarnardot 238 Pts   -   edited October 2
    @ZeusAres42
    Any way okay I get what your on about now and it is you who is being sarcastic and talking down to others because I wrote it in English and you also did it to that other guy saying that he was doing conspiracy theories. So what it really means I guess is that your stalling for time because you got defeated on your point about war crimes. Because the point that I pointed out was that Ukraine started it when they were knocking off Russians who were settling over the border and just because there was no war going on your trying to say that the Ukraines are skweeky clean. Because if I want to get ignorant and con desending then I could say okay who says that this is a war any way and who defines that. Any way also I could say that it is the Ukraines who are doing the fighting and that the Russians are defending them selves because all the Russians are doing is claiming back there territory. It was the Ukraines who broke away from the union. So you see your got to try and analize the hole picture and stop judging down on people like you know every thing.
    ZeusAres42
  • jackjack 81 Pts   -   edited October 2
    Daria said:

    what do You know about Ukraine?

    Hello Daria:

    They're underdogs..  What else do we need to know?

    Jews LOVE underdogs...   Hanuka is all about winning a war over the much larger Maccabees.   The Jews were underdogs in the 6 Day war, but they kicked some Arab butt.  David was an underdog when he fought Goliath, and we all know what happened there..  Finally, you don't get much more underdoggy than your entire people being enslaved, yet Moses did the Egyptians in.

    Yeah...  Jews - the epitome of underdogs - LOVE other underdogs..

    excon
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4800 Pts   -  
    anarchist100 said:


    and Libya was because America and France didn't want Gaddafi liberating Africa from economic enslavement
    You know, it is a bizarre pattern among many Americans calling themselves libertarian or anarchist: their libertarianism or anarchism seems to manifest itself only in opposition to everything the US government does - while they are all too happy to call foreign totalitarian dictators "liberators". It seems to be an exclusively American phenomenon; I have not seen anything of the kind in the libertarian/anarchist communities in other countries I have interacted with. Here, you have things like Ron Paul claiming that the US government instigated the demonstrations in Hong Kong that would otherwise not happen, based solely on the fact that the government was silent on the Hong Kong issue up until the protests began...

    I do not think that most libertarians/anarchists here actually care about liberty that much. They only seem to care about undermining the US government and supporting everyone and everything who/that opposes it. A dictator whose army has littered his country with corpses? Nah, he is a good guy, a "liberator", because he fought the evil Americans. :*
  • SonofasonSonofason 424 Pts   -  
    At first, I though Putin would win, now, if I am not being misinformed on the topic, the Ukrainians seem to be winning, I just hope that Putin can accept defeat without causing a nuclear war, I think he understands how much of a bad idea that is, however, in his mind being defeated in Ukraine might mean the end of Russia, as they would likely join NATO, so he might do it anyway, and then we're in deep doodoo.
    People like Putin ought to be stopped even at the cost of Nuclear War.  No life is worth living, not even yours when there are governments like Putin's murdering people.  People like that need to be stopped even if at everyone's cost.  No life is more valuable than stopping F wads like him.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 362 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Suicide

    @Sonofason
    No one wins a nuclear war.  You're saying we should commit suicide.
  • SonofasonSonofason 424 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason
    No one wins a nuclear war.  You're saying we should commit suicide.
    If you're going to let someone like Putin live in this world, I'd rather no one live in this world.  So if we all die from Nuclear War...we all win.
  • SonofasonSonofason 424 Pts   -  
    Sonofason said:
    @Sonofason
    No one wins a nuclear war.  You're saying we should commit suicide.
    If you're going to let someone like Putin live in this world, I'd rather no one live in this world.  So if we all die from Nuclear War...we all win.
    Life is not as special as you might think it is.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 362 Pts   -  
    Sonofason said:
    Life is not as special as you might think it is.
    Maybe just your life isn't.
  • BarnardotBarnardot 238 Pts   -  
    Maybe just your life isn't.@JulesKorngold

    Well it just goes to show that that is what the Muslims and Bolshies think about life because they dont care it all. The Muslims throw fags off roof tops and the commies think they are all as one so that they dont care about individual lifes. But the true God has a blue print for every one and thats why we are each special and a lot of people dont think about that.

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4800 Pts   -   edited October 3
    Sonofason said:

    People like Putin ought to be stopped even at the cost of Nuclear War.  No life is worth living, not even yours when there are governments like Putin's murdering people.  People like that need to be stopped even if at everyone's cost.  No life is more valuable than stopping F wads like him.
    My life is more valuable than anything else in this world, in my eyes. As cold-hearted as it may sound, even if Putin murders all Russians and Ukrainians, while I certainly will strongly disapprove of it, it will not affect my life significantly (I am excepting my immediate family here: if Putin murders them, then, obviously, my life will be affected). There are countless dictators in the world doing unspeakable things to their populations daily, and I do not lose much sleep over it. My life takes precedence over anything else.

    If you want to stop Putin at the cost of your life, then go ahead. Enlist in a mercenary company and go fight him. Just do not drag me into the same pit you are going when I have not consented to it. You do not get to decide whose life is how valuable; you only own your life, and if you want to throw it away fighting a dictator, then go ahead. My or anyone else's life is not yours to dispose of.
  • Barnardot said:
    @ZeusAres42
     So you see your got to try and analize the hole picture and stop judging down on people like you know every thing.
    You should take your own sound advice there. :)



  • @JulesKorngold
    No one wins a nuclear war.  You're saying we should commit suicide.

    "No one wins a Nuclear War." No one wins a War nuclear or other we might as people be left with the impression a War has been own it does not make the claim fact. Nuclear Combat is not an accurate description of any type of World War, period. Never was it being an interpretation only to create a theory. The use of any enriched uranium as a weapon in a type of nuclear combat is chemical combat by all fact, and it is this form of combat is a Civil War on an international scale. Over the centuries the human intellect devotes it time to establish ideas used as an argument to justify irrational actions. Due to the nature of threat on weaponizing enriched uranium this kind of arguments are made only on the bases to hide an illegal aggressive concept, a force already described in international law as wrong.

    Nostalgia

    1. A bittersweet longing for things, persons, or situations of the past.

    2. The condition of being homesick; homesickness.
  • bjinthirtybjinthirty 119 Pts   -  
    Dee said:
    I’ve no time for Zelensky or Ukraine. Ukraine has regularly been in  the top 10 list of most corrupt countries in the world and most corrupt in Europe even putting Russia to shame in this 

    All one sees daily now is Zelensky posing with A list celebs always in military attire and begging for yet more money , European countries and countries worldwide place massive amounts of money into Ukraines coffers while neglecting serious issues of poverty and homelessness in their own countries they do so because every country wants to be perceived as Zelensky friend otherwise he accuses those countries who don’t support filling Ukraines begging bowl of being anti Ukrainian and pro Russian 

    Zelensky in no angel  as a bit of research will demonstrate , unfortunately when it’s all over governments around the world will trip over each other to award Zelensky their countries highest awards and we will have to suffer his egotistical bleatings on chat shows for years to come where no doubt he will still don military garb …….Cha Ching …….

    BTW this is not to say I’m a fan of Russia I detest Putin and all he stands for I also detest the majority of Russian citizens who are cowardly dogs in they way they support Putin and his continued lunacy 

    It says it all about modern Russia when at the outbreak of the invasion a very elderly brave woman and a survivor of Leningrad protested against Putin’s excesses and she was strong armed by Putin’s “hero’s” into a police van as “brave “ young Russian citizens stood around filiming the event to post on You Tube   and FB for unlimited likes …..cowardly dogs 

    So countries contribute money to ukraine so they dont get looked as pro russia supporters? Is that the reason why?


    The way i view the war in Ukraine is all but what the news mention. The headlines, summits, topics, issues, and the credentials of the war are all but what it seems farther than one closest thing. The military industry is above all other reasons.


    The United States has been constantly practicing their military capabilities on the ground and has developed crucial knowledge in the art of war. Meanwhile other big superpowers such as Russia and China sit with their arms crossed pumping money into military equipment they hardly use. And while China might be technologically in par with the United States, it lacks the experience on the ground. This is where Ukraine comes in.


    To simply put my view of this, lets just say there is a military expo and Ukraine is the place for the event. Where every country gets to exhibit their skills and abilities against other nations to see whos best. 
  • SonofasonSonofason 424 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    Sonofason said:

    People like Putin ought to be stopped even at the cost of Nuclear War.  No life is worth living, not even yours when there are governments like Putin's murdering people.  People like that need to be stopped even if at everyone's cost.  No life is more valuable than stopping F wads like him.
    My life is more valuable than anything else in this world, in my eyes. As cold-hearted as it may sound, even if Putin murders all Russians and Ukrainians, while I certainly will strongly disapprove of it, it will not affect my life significantly (I am excepting my immediate family here: if Putin murders them, then, obviously, my life will be affected). There are countless dictators in the world doing unspeakable things to their populations daily, and I do not lose much sleep over it. My life takes precedence over anything else.

    If you want to stop Putin at the cost of your life, then go ahead. Enlist in a mercenary company and go fight him. Just do not drag me into the same pit you are going when I have not consented to it. You do not get to decide whose life is how valuable; you only own your life, and if you want to throw it away fighting a dictator, then go ahead. My or anyone else's life is not yours to dispose of.
    Well, the fact remains that there are people who get to decide how important your life is.
  • anarchist100anarchist100 713 Pts   -  
    Sonofason said:
    MayCaesar said:
    Sonofason said:

    People like Putin ought to be stopped even at the cost of Nuclear War.  No life is worth living, not even yours when there are governments like Putin's murdering people.  People like that need to be stopped even if at everyone's cost.  No life is more valuable than stopping F wads like him.
    My life is more valuable than anything else in this world, in my eyes. As cold-hearted as it may sound, even if Putin murders all Russians and Ukrainians, while I certainly will strongly disapprove of it, it will not affect my life significantly (I am excepting my immediate family here: if Putin murders them, then, obviously, my life will be affected). There are countless dictators in the world doing unspeakable things to their populations daily, and I do not lose much sleep over it. My life takes precedence over anything else.

    If you want to stop Putin at the cost of your life, then go ahead. Enlist in a mercenary company and go fight him. Just do not drag me into the same pit you are going when I have not consented to it. You do not get to decide whose life is how valuable; you only own your life, and if you want to throw it away fighting a dictator, then go ahead. My or anyone else's life is not yours to dispose of.
    Well, the fact remains that there are people who get to decide how important your life is.
    What if I were to kill those people?
  • bjinthirtybjinthirty 119 Pts   -  
    Sonofason said:
    MayCaesar said:
    Sonofason said:

    People like Putin ought to be stopped even at the cost of Nuclear War.  No life is worth living, not even yours when there are governments like Putin's murdering people.  People like that need to be stopped even if at everyone's cost.  No life is more valuable than stopping F wads like him.
    My life is more valuable than anything else in this world, in my eyes. As cold-hearted as it may sound, even if Putin murders all Russians and Ukrainians, while I certainly will strongly disapprove of it, it will not affect my life significantly (I am excepting my immediate family here: if Putin murders them, then, obviously, my life will be affected). There are countless dictators in the world doing unspeakable things to their populations daily, and I do not lose much sleep over it. My life takes precedence over anything else.

    If you want to stop Putin at the cost of your life, then go ahead. Enlist in a mercenary company and go fight him. Just do not drag me into the same pit you are going when I have not consented to it. You do not get to decide whose life is how valuable; you only own your life, and if you want to throw it away fighting a dictator, then go ahead. My or anyone else's life is not yours to dispose of.
    Well, the fact remains that there are people who get to decide how important your life is.
    What if I were to kill those people?


    You would die with them and your effort would count for nothing.
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2233 Pts   -   edited October 12
    MayCaesar said:
    @anarchist100

    At least, the US military court system relentlessly punishes individuals who have crossed the line, there is a widespread condemnation of the military leaders' actions both inside and outside the US, and few people believe that Obama's and Bush' military shenanigans are medal-worthy.

    What about Russia? Putin still, after all the recent failures, is largely worshiped by the Russian population, he has actually annexed multiple territories by force over just the past 15 years, foreign leaders danced with him and sang him praises up until this March despite everything, and Russian soldiers, generals and intelligence officers get away with the most grievous crimes against humanity - hell, they get promoted for it.

    Your anti-American zeal blinds you to reality. As much as there is to criticize the US government for, American politicians are angels compared to politicians in most countries out there. Russia is a pretty extreme example, but have you looked into what is happening in politics in softer regimes, such as Brazil, or India, or Argentina? Just because you happen to live in the US, and just because the whole world bashes the US 24/7, does not mean that the US is largely a force for evil in the world.


    Yeah, I did say to him but I don't think he read properly that Americans had committed war crimes but were bought to Justice via the US court system. But all I got was some stuff about Politicians in the USA doing some crime a few decades back and of which these claims also lacked substance.

    Ever since the bombing of Japan by the USA I would say it has come a long way to being more civilized. However, these things happened decades ago and truth be told every single country on the globe is guilty of some ill-informed action against an innocent civilian during its time right from the beginning to human origin. What separates the USA from other countries is how we have evolved to be better people as time has gone on.

    On another but related note, I gotta say that one thing that really irks me about the USA is that it is virtually the most privileged country in the world and yet you still got so many American a-holes that act like they are deprived and that the rest of the world owes them something.

    And you're right about @anarchist100. @anarchist100 I think a more apt name for you would be extremist or radicalised100. You clearly have no regard for and probably don't even know what the fundamental values of the USA are. I am not even from the USA (I'm from the UK) and even I know what they are.
    • liberty
    • self-government
    • equality
    • individualism
    • diversity
    • unity.
    These are all the things that you are against which you have demonstrated multiple times via your posts. @anarchist100.



  • anarchist100anarchist100 713 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42 @MayCaesar
    You're both wrong, as I pointed out, almost no on in the American torture program was brought to justice, no one has been held accountable for Obama's drone strike program that killed innocent people 90% of the time, and politicians who start these wars in the first place get away with it, I could bring up even more examples of war crimes going unpunished, like the people in the collateral murder tapes, but I think you get the point, while some war criminals in America are brought to justice, the vast majority are not.
  • anarchist100 said: @ZeusAres42 @MayCaesar You're both wrong, as I pointed out, almost no on in the American torture program was brought to justice, no one has been held accountable for Obama's drone strike program that killed innocent people 90% of the time, and politicians who start these wars in the first place get away with it, I could bring up even more examples of war crimes going unpunished, like the people in the collateral murder tapes, but I think you get the point, while some war criminals in America are brought to justice, the vast majority are not.


    Substance, citation, and elaboration are needed, please.



  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4800 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42

    I think that there are two factors at play.

    First, people, wherever they live, become accustomed to their environment, start taking it from granted and start seeing all the flaws (real or perceived) that could be remedied, but are not. I remember when I moved to the US: initially I saw it as pure paradise, and criticizing something was not on my mental horizon whatsoever - what is some minor flaw in a country where the poorest 10% live, in many ways, better lives than the richest 10% in the country I grew up in? Over time, however, as I sank into the life routine, grew some roots, acquired some property and moved up the career ladder, everything around me became a normality - and, against that normality, all the flaws became visible.
    Think of a canyon filled with water. If the water is one the same level for years and you go to this canyon for a hike every day, then you quickly run out of things to see. Then something suddenly happens, and the water level goes down by 20 meters... Suddenly you see a lot of details that were hidden before and start eagerly exploring them: your world just got a lot bigger. But after a while that becomes the default state, and you now enjoy your canyon walks just as much as before - perhaps even a bit less, as you learned how quickly the excitement can wear off: until the water level drop you hoped that the drop would make your hiking trips more enjoyable - and now you know that the effect, at best, is temporary.

    Second, when someone is interested in and passionate about a topic, then the importance of that topic and all of its aspects becomes overblown in their mind. It is no accident that people living in any country talk mostly about the problems of that country: it is not just that those problems are more relevant to them, but it is also that those problems are what they naturally focus on and they start overshadowing other problems. Back when I lived in Russia, I would often hear dissidents (whose views I generally sympathized with) make extreme statements such as, "Putin's Russia literally is the worst country in human history". If I objected with, "Do you seriously think that Russia is even worse than Cuba or North Korea?", they would, at best, say, "Well, Cuba and North Korea are only what they are because of the Russian interference" (which could very well be true, but is beside the point), and, at worst, say, "Well, in North Korea foreign diplomats are not found dead on the streets. Sounds like North Korea is better than Russia!" 
    When someone is that obsessed with a particular topic, a weighted opinion is outruled. The degree to which many libertarians in the US believe that the US is the biggest villain of the 21st century never ceased to amaze me, but I think that I understand where they are coming from better and better over time.

    Personally, I have always been an odd duck, in that I have never seen a place where I live as particularly important. I have gotten to live in many different countries for extended periods of life, and I have never felt attached to any particular one. Talking about Russia, a country in which I have spent nearly half of my life, puts me in a similar emotional landscape as talking about Lesotho, where I have never been and am not planning to ever be. Most people, in my experience, are different, and the place where they live or have lived for an extended period of time becomes a part of their identity, and anything that happens there or anything that anyone says about anything happening there - affects their psychology profoundly.
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