Are there still people in the U.S. who support slavery?

anarchist100

For any opinion you might list there will likely be at least one person who believes that, but very few. Slavery is quite obviously a horrendous thing, people have known this for about as long as there's been civilization, however they ignored it and just went along with society, now that society no monger supports slavery, there's not much of a reason why anyone would back such am obviously bad thing, even if it was logical in the end people
s empathy would get in the way, unless they are a twelve year old edgelord who's entire world view is just whatever is the opposite of what everyone else thinks. Most people will at most say that the bad aspect was exaggerated, and that there where some good aspects of it, while that is certainly worth discussing, unless they think that it was overall a good thing that should be brought back I will not claim that they support slavery, and I think they fall somewhat into the first category and are just trying to argue with "da left".

With that in mind, there are some people who are not in fact twelve year old edgelords who still support slavery, these people would probably be of the opinion that certain groups are naturally inferior, and that they can not have a society on their own, but rather require a master to serve, in the American south during slavery this was a popular opinion, often people would use religion to justify it. As certain extreme Jewish groups do now days, mind you these groups primarily exist in Israel not the United states. In America these sort of people are very uncommon, so I would not worry at all about them. Even some of the most racist people will still acknowledge that one homo-sapian owning another is immoral.

just_sayin

Argument Topic: Vague OP

What a vague opening argument.  "I think there are definitely some." - well there are 331.9 million people in the US.  If you find one or two, then it seems the criterion is met.  What kind of slavery are we talking about?  Where young boys and girls are used as sex slaves for their passage into the United States?  Well, since there are instances of this every year, I guess there is slavery in the US.  If you consider it slavery to have prisoners work for a reduction in their time served, then I guess you could argue that slavery exists - though there seems to be some level of choice in their participation.  

John_C_87

@theinfectedmaster

Slavery has been adopted into the United States Constitution by ratification and is also described as a power of Congress. Every American, plus most people can or might be enslaved in American at any time in the past 158 years. Just a piont of civil court fact slavery is now 185 years part of America and was not part of the United States of America until it was ratificed into the united states constitution 1865.

Abolished -  to end the observance or effect of (something, such as a law) : to completely do away with (something) 

Abolish Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Abolition of Slavery (1865) | National Archives

Start small did you know it is purgery to lie on a offical document of governing and law?
The reasons for the crime are self-evident in the harm it creates...

John_C_87

@theinfectedmaster

I was wondering anything. If you think that there are still people who support slavery. I think there are definitely some.

I do not think you understand or know all information in the principles behind the facts of slavery. Do you believe in the act of taking prisoners of war? Are all soldiers who surrender to be held by tribunal and shot immediately on murder charges? What are the reasons behind the extensive amount of perjury having taken place over slavery? How do you describe a state of the union, set in self-evident truth that better describes the abolishment of slavery?

A lawyer would need one so not to be charged with malpractice of law when addressing the civil court. Unless they are confident a connection to established justice has been severed cleanly.

MayCaesar

I support something that some people would call "slavery": indentured servitude. I think that anyone should be able to sign a contract significantly limiting their freedoms for an extended period of time as a way to pay for something. The caveat being that the contract should be very explicit, not something vague like, "For the next 2 years Joe Black becomes a servant of Jack Sparrow". To me calling this "slavery" makes no sense though, since slavery by definition is involuntary, while indentured servitude is consensual.

One common objection to this is the claim that it should be impossible to consent to revoke the right of consent temporarily: it is impossible to consent to someone being able to have sex with you for the next hour without you being able to stop the act at any point. First, I do not think that practicing this is possible in practice, as that would mean that any time I can tell my bank, "I no longer consent to the terms of this loan and terminate this relationship; better luck next time", and it would completely destroy the entire marketplace. And second, it is reasonable to demand that any contract, including that for indentured servitude, offers termination terms: if after a while I decide that my "master" (for the lack of the better term) is a jerk and I cannot bear to be his servant, then I am free to withdraw, but have to incur other costs, such as new financial burdens.

Speaking about conventional slavery, it is reasonable to expect that, out of 320 million people, at least someone will be in favor of it. I even heard the argument once that "white men" will never have fully paid the price for enslaving the black people in the past, until they actually experience what it is like to be slaves and labor for blacks for a while. However, this is a very marginal view, at best, and you will be hard-pressed to get the most hardcore KKK fanatic to even seriously consider the idea of restoring the institution of slavery.

John_C_87

@MayCaesar

Speaking about conventional slavery, it is reasonable to expect that, out of 320 million people, at least someone will be in favor of it. , until they actually experience what it is like to be slaves and labor for blacks for a while. However, this is a very marginal view, at best, and you will be hard-pressed to get the most hardcore KKK fanatic to even seriously consider the idea of restoring the institution of slavery. I even heard the argument once that "white men" will never have fully paid the price for enslaving the black people in the past
It's racist at best.

List of Concentration and Internment Camps - Yugoslavia - Communist Camps (liquisearch.com)

You cannot restore something never abolished in the first place. There is no evidence to support the claim slavery had been ended in 1865 by ratifying the 13 Amendment.

OakTownA

Slavery is currently legal and Constitutional in the United States:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/

We can see this in action in prisons where prisoners are often forced to work for little or no money.

"A report published by the American Civil Liberties Union in June 2022 found about 800,000 prisoners out of the 1.2 million in state and federal prisons are forced to work, generating a conservative estimate of $11bn annually in goods and services while average wages range from 13 cents to 52 cents per hour. Five states – Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas – force prisoners to work without pay. The report concluded that the labor conditions of US prisoners violate fundamental human rights to life and dignity."

"Refusing a work assignment can also have adverse consequences, he said, ranging from being placed in solitary confinement to having any work issues placed on your record which affects parole and status within a prison that determines what privileges you receive. Workers in prison do not get any paid time off and are often forced to work even when sick unless an infirmary affirms they are not able to work."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/27/slavery-loophole-unpaid-labor-in-prisons

"Today, more than 76 percent of incarcerated workers surveyed by the Bureau of Justice Statistics say that they are required to work or face additional punishment such as solitary confinement, denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence, and loss of family visitation. They have no right to choose what type of work they do and are subject to arbitrary, discriminatory, and punitive decisions by the prison administrators who select their work assignments.

U.S. law also explicitly excludes incarcerated workers from the most universally recognized workplace protections. Incarcerated workers are not covered by minimum wage laws or overtime protection, are not afforded the right to unionize, and are denied workplace safety guarantees."

"Nationally, incarcerated workers produce more than $2 billion per year in goods and more than $9 billion per year in services for the maintenance of the prisons."

And yet they are paid an average of $0.52 per hour, most of which is taken out of their check and given back to the prison for "room and board."

https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/captive-labor-exploitation-of-incarcerated-workers

If you support the prison industrial complex, you support slavery.

theinfectedmaster

@OakTownA I wouldn't feel bad if no one liked me for anything because it would just mean that I like to accept myself for the way I am.

OakTownA

@theinfectedmaster

"I wouldn't feel bad if no one liked me for anything because it would just mean that I like to accept myself for the way I am."

What does this have to do with institutionalized slavery?

theinfectedmaster

@OakTownA I just thought I'd bring it up just that I would accept myself for who I am. I'm not concerned with being liked.

OakTownA

@theinfectedmaster

"I just thought I'd bring it up just that I would accept myself for who I am. I'm not concerned with being liked."

Okay, that's great. It still has no relevance to what is being discussed.

MichaelElpers

@OakTown

What these reports often don't consider regarding prison workers is the amount of money that comes with there associated confinement. Needing law enforcement, workers at the prison, courts and jury's, food, thr shelter costs themselves ect.  U.s. spends 80 billion a year on public prisons.

Additionally I'm not sure what you are supposed to expect.  If prison gave you a guaranteed job making normal wages crime would be through the roof.

OakTownA

@MichaelElpers

"What these reports often don't consider regarding prison workers is the amount of money that comes with there associated confinement. Needing law enforcement, workers at the prison, courts and jury's, food, thr shelter costs themselves ect.  U.s. spends 80 billion a year on public prisons."

And this should be paid for by the government. Currently, all but two states require that prisoners pay for their stay in prison. Prisoners can be charged up to $60 a day.  At that price, a short sentence of 6 months leaves a prisoner with a debt of almost $11,000. I personally would find this amount of debt devastating, and I have a decent paying job. At a maximum rate of $0.52/hr, a prisoner can expect to make about $4 a day, or $94 for the same six month period.

https://apnews.com/article/crime-prisons-lawsuits-connecticut-074a8f643766e155df58d2c8fbc7214c

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084452251/the-vast-majority-of-states-allow-people-to-be-charged-for-time-behind-bars

Do you think it's okay for companies to use prisons as a source of free or nearly free labor? Prisoners are also forced to work, regardless of the working conditions, disabilities, or the prisoner's desire to work.  Over 4,100 corporations make profits off of the backs of prisoners, and are even granted " a tax credit of $2,400 for every work-release inmate they employ as a reward for hiring “risky target groups.”"

http://maltajusticeinitiative.org/12-major-corporations-benefiting-from-the-prison-industrial-complex-2/

https://corpaccountabilitylab.org/calblog/2020/8/5/private-companies-producing-with-us-prison-labor-in-2020-prison-labor-in-the-us-part-ii

"Additionally I'm not sure what you are supposed to expect.  If prison gave you a guaranteed job making normal wages crime would be through the roof. "

What evidence do you have to support this assertion? It's still prison, with everything that entails. Also, as the articles I posted above explain, work that takes place in a prison is not accepted as prior experience or, like in the case of firefighting, there are laws in place preventing them from finding employment in that field after they are released.

Nomenclature

@theinfectedmaster

What I think most people are programmed from a young age not to understand is that capitalism is slavery. The rewards have improved, slaves are no longer physically beaten, and to a certain extent the slave now has some choice over their master, but the basic system remains exactly the same. The labour of poor people is perpetually exploited to fund the lifestyle of the rich. A person can't choose not to labour, because otherwise they can't meet their basic needs. It's slavery and there are only two means of escape: you either buy yourself out or you die.

Dee

@Nomenclature

The truly astonishing thing to me is how many Americans actually worship the system that exploits them , mention minimum wage laws and they fly into a rage yet totally defend an employer to reduce wages to increase profit.

It's ridiculous as the suggestion is that no wage is ever too exploitative or too low for a worker and no wage is ever to high for an employer.

These people are like turkeys voting for Christmas 

Nomenclature

@Dee

The truly astonishing thing to me is how many Americans actually worship the system that exploits them , mention minimum wage laws and they fly into a rage yet totally defend an employer to reduce wages to increase profit.

100 percent Dee. They've been utterly brainwashed. It's like the old saying, "The best type of slave is one who thinks they are free."

John_C_87

@Dee
The truly astonishing thing to me is how many Americans actually worship the system that exploits them , mention minimum wage laws and they fly into a rage yet totally defend an employer to reduce wages to increase profit.

In economics it is this very statement which describes all wages as an outside cost and not a part of economic inflation when making economic forecasts. Also, employers seldom reduce wages directly as in America that practice is not even legal, a worker may be docked pay under very limited conditions but the loss of pay come in the form of lower hours, time off, suspensions and so forth, for most worker anyway. This effects workers harder as then other workers are often brought in to which they must now compete for advancement on pay and the process actually creates new job titles with different conditions of labor.  

John_C_87

@Nomenclature

100 percent Dee. They've been utterly brainwashed. It's like the old saying, "The best type of slave is one who thinks they are free."

The best type of slave is a happy slave....

The best fact describing a slave is prisoner of war.

Where business is often compared to as a type of War it has not quite reached a real state of War in many ways which prisoners of war are then taken, even with the idea of hostile take overs and such.

John_C_87

@theinfectedmaster

I was wondering anything. If you think that there are still people who support slavery. I think there are definitely some.

They have been coached to look at slavery as having been ended. There are people all over the world supporting slavery under other names by its state of the union made by unite states Constitutional amendment number 13. Again the focus of the state of the union Executive officer Lincoln had created was not about slavery itself by treatment of prisoners of war as an argument of international crime.