What Are The Goals Of Hamas?

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Does Hamas Attack Military Targets?

No.  Just civilian targets.

What brave fighters.

Dee

@JulesKorngold




***What brave fighters.***

Well the Jews know all about bravery as they went like sheep to Nazi death camps actually lickng and crawling to their Nazi masters , no doubt your relations sold fellow Jews down the line to get the coveted job of chief Kapo 

Dee

@JulesKorngold




***What brave fighters.***

Well the Jews know all about bravery as they went like sheep to Nazi death camps actually lickng and crawling to their Nazi masters , no doubt your relations sold fellow Jews down the line to get the coveted job of chief Kapo 

JulesKorngold

The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was a Jewish resistance that took place in the Warsaw Ghetto in German-occupied Poland during World War II. The uprising lasted from April 19 to May 16, 1943, and was led by Jewish resistance fighters in the face of deportations to extermination camps by the Nazi regime. Despite being vastly outnumbered and outgunned, the fighters managed to put up a fierce resistance for several weeks before being overwhelmed. The uprising is widely regarded as one of the largest acts of Jewish resistance during the Holocaust. The aftermath of the uprising saw the destruction of the Warsaw Ghetto and the murder of most of the surviving fighters and civilians.

JulesKorngold

The Warsaw Ghetto Fighters resisted because they wanted to preserve their dignity and fight against their oppressors in the face of certain death. They knew that if they did not resist, their oppressors would erase their culture, their history, and their identity. The Warsaw Ghetto Fighters believed that by resisting, they could show the world that Jews would not go quietly into the night and that they would not allow their oppressors to dictate their fate. For these reasons, even in the face of certain death, the Warsaw Ghetto Fighters chose to fight for their freedom and dignity.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Major Jewish Revolts During The Holocaust

1. Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (1943)
2. Sobibor Uprising (1943)
3. Treblinka Uprising (1943)
4. Bialystok Ghetto Uprising (1943)
5. Vilna Ghetto Uprising (1943)
6. Czestochowa Uprising (1943)
7. Sonderkommando Uprising at Auschwitz (1944)
8. Ghetto Uprising in Minsk (1943)
9. Krakow Ghetto Uprising (1943)
10. Ghetto Uprising in Białystok (1943)
11. Ghetto Uprising in Częstochowa (1943)

Barnardot

@JulesKorngold ;The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising 

Thats got totally nothing to do with the subject that you wrote in the first place and you refused to respond to the fact that you got caught out quoting Jewish propaganda lies about the Hamas covenant. So does the charter say to destroy Israel through a long-term holy war yes or no.

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

Well the Jews know all about bravery as they went like sheep to Nazi death camps actually lickng and crawling to their Nazi masters , no doubt your relations sold fellow Jews down the line to get the coveted job of chief Kapo 

Your anti-Semitism is really showing.

MineSubCraftStarved

@Barnardot

Hamas is a resistance movement and fundamentalist, not an extremist group like in those links and they don't say to destroy Israel through a long-term holy war in the charter like that stirring Israel baloney. The charter says they should be able to confront the Zionist invasion and defeat it.

Hamas does support the destruction of Israel, here is a quotation from the Hamas charter, supporting the fact that Hamas wishes to destroy Israel:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." - First Paragraph
They also go on to further show their extremism by saying:
"Israel, Judaism, and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep." - Article 28
This demonstrates how Hamas, not only opposes Israel, but also the Jewish religion and people as a whole.

Barnardot

@MineSubCraftStarved

Hamas does support the destruction of Israel

Yes I do get your point there and that is right but when you look at what the Israel site says they are just as bad and trying to say one is worse than the other is pointless. Why would Hamas say those things because Israel doesn't make threats about obliterating the Palistinians they actually do it. The Palestinians have no chance against Israel because there poor and there weapons are no where near a match But I think what is really wrong is they they both hate each others guts so much thats how they behave both of them.

Nomenclature

@MineSubCraftStarved

Hamas does support the destruction of Israel, here is a quotation from the Hamas charter, supporting the fact that Hamas wishes to destroy Israel:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

That isn't part of the charter itself. It's a quote from Imam Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim brotherhood, who died a year after Israel was officially recognised as a state. It appears as a prelude to the charter, among several other quotes which you haven't made any reference to. 

The Hamas charter is very much written in terms of it being a covenant of an Islamic resistance movement. In other words, contrary to your pretense that they are the aggressors, their interpretation is that they are responding to aggression. They are hardliners, certainly, but no more so than the Israelis themselves.

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved

Your anti-Semitism is really showing.

Your raging imbecility is showing. A typically childish knee jerk reaction from you but sadly par for the course  , my response was to the underhanded and cheap shot your best buddy and Palestinian hater Cornfed made. Anther member  @Barnardot also noted and pointed out Cornfeds slimy underhanded tactic , you of course pretended not to see so as the engage in a personal attack on me , so be it .

To call me an Anti -Semite is the same as certain Muslims when they call others an Islamaphobe , such tactics are used by bullies and Internet warriors hoping to shut down dialogue , in this you fail as always.

To say I have hostility towards people who want to ethnically cleanse  Palestinians of the face of the earth is I think pretty obvious to most except you who thinks " hey he's an anti- Semite " is somehow a blinding revelation , your contention is the very same as " he's rabidly anti - Nazi " regarding Jews views on Germans.

Are you really that much of an Imbecile that you think your finger wagging  moral indignation is enough for a nation to meekly accept that Palestinians should meekly allow  Israelis to bomb them out of existence?

BTW I have no problem or issue with decent Jews who wish to seek peaceful solutions to the issue but you see this does not fit into your pigeon holing of everyone who disagrees with your warped and childish views of such matters as it's far less easier to call everyone who disagrees an "anti- Semite" this all of course when you fight tooth and nail defending people like Cornfed who relish the idea of Palestinians getting blown to bits but of course that's never "Anti  -Palestinian " but merely "defensive " ....right?

MineSubCraftStarved

@Barnardot

Why would Hamas say those things because Israel doesn't make threats about obliterating the Palestinians they actually do it.

If Israel wanted to genocide the Arab population under its control it would've. Especially after the repeated Gazan assaults on Israel. Gaza is a very cramped area, and Israel would have casus belli bombing Gaza off of the map after the various rocket attacks perpetrated by Hamas on Israel. The fact that Israel has not done so yet demonstrates its restraint and its unwillingness to destroy the Arab population in Israel. No other country would be so tolerant of a radical, Jihadist terrorist movement right on its border, and rightfully so. Despite this, Israel has shown Gaza incredible amounts of respect in response to the attacks.

MineSubCraftStarved

@Nomenclature

That isn't part of the charter itself. It's a quote from Imam Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim brotherhood, who died a year after Israel was officially recognised as a state.

A charter is defined as:
"a formal statement of the rights of a country's people, or of an organization or a particular social group, that is agreed by or demanded from a ruler or government." - Cambridge dictionary
By this definition, anything said in the charter is a formal demonstration of the intentions of the institution. Therefore, by quoting Hassan al-Banna, and his obvious opposition to the existence of Israel, Hamas establishes the sentiment of the destruction of Israel. Regardless of whether or not it was in the preamble.

The Hamas charter is very much written in terms of it being a covenant of an Islamic resistance movement. In other words, contrary to your pretense that they are the aggressors, their interpretation is that they are responding to aggression. They are hardliners, certainly, but no more so than the Israelis themselves.

If Israel was the aggressor, why did it voluntarily withdraw from Gaza? I fail to see how Israel is as radical(or hardline) as Gaza. I didn't see Israel lobbing thousands of rockets targeting civilian centers that housed no military or strategic purpose over to Gaza. I didn't see Israel recruiting child soldiers. Al-Qaeda and ISIS were also Islamic resistance movements against Ba'athists and other secular/atheist Arab governments, why are they less justified than Hamas?

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee
It seems to me that your comments are a rather pathetic way to try to excuse your prejudice. Your comments weren't directed at a specific set of Jewish people. They were directed towards ALL of the Jewish people. For the record, Jules did not insult you or 'throw a cheap shot' at you in any way. To respond to a political statement with bigotry is unacceptable. Your statement wasn't an argument regarding Israel, it was not a political statement, it was bigotry, pure and simple. My response was not an attempt to stifle debate, as there was no debate to be had from you. Especially with that kind of statement.

Nomenclature

@MineSubCraftStarved

By this definition, anything said in the charter is a formal demonstration of the intentions of the institution.

Stop talking absolute rubbish. The next quote on the list begins, "The Islamic world is on fire", and we should "Each pour some water", so are you saying it is a "formal demonstration of the intentions" of Hamas to visit all the Islamic countries armed with a big jug of water? It's obviously metaphorical speech. The charter begins after the quotes. All of the articles in the charter are clearly labelled, from one through thirty six. A semi-literate teenager could read that charter and see where it begins.

Nomenclature

@MineSubCraftStarved

If Israel was the aggressor, why did it voluntarily withdraw from Gaza?

Is this supposed to be a joke? Israel stole Gaza from Egypt in 1967 and held it under illegal military occupation for decades, despite umpteen UN resolutions demanding its return. Huge international political pressure was heaped onto Israel to give it back. 

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Thanks

MineSubCraftStarved said:

@Dee
For the record, Jules did not insult you or 'throw a cheap shot' at you in any way. 

MineSubCraftStarved
Thanks for bearing witness and defending me.  As you may know, I have reported this website to American government, legal, and law enforcement entities for allowing extreme antisemitic hate speech mocking the Holocaust and Jewish suffering.  This website is being monitored by these entities and I have been advised not to engage Dee or Nomenclature anymore.  They say I should post my comments to a general audience and create debate topics that expose their hate speech.  

I hope this site is not shut down.  There are several talented debaters here (you being one of them).  But I won't sit back and let antisemitic filth go unchecked.  If this site is eventually shut down, so be it.  There are lots of other debate sites.

Nomenclature

@JulesKorngold

As you may know, I have reported this website to American government, legal, and law enforcement entities

You're so pathetic it's abhorrent. If you don't like freedom of speech then you're perfectly free to take your anti-Palestinian hate with you and crawl back under the rock you came from. You honestly make me want to vomit.

MayCaesar

They have been pretty clear about it. We can let them speak for themselves:

"She is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe." - Mahmoud Zahar, the Hamas leader, 2004.

"This is Islam, that was ahead of its time with regards to human rights in the treatment of prisoners, but our nation was tested by the cancerous lump, that is the Jews, in the heart of the Arab nation... Be certain that America is on its way to utter destruction, America is wallowing today in Iraq and Afghanistan, America is defeated and Israel is defeated, and was defeated in Lebanon and Palestine... Make us victorious over the community of infidels... Allah, take the Jews and their allies, Allah, take the Americans and their allies... Allah, annihilate them completely and do not leave anyone of them." - Ahmad Bahar, speaker of the PLC, 2006.

They are a typical terrorist scum whose goal is to kill endlessly, making lives of everyone who does not share their bizarre values miserable and as short-lived as possible. Not sure what the point of whitewashing their actions is when they themselves want them to sound as cruel and dictatorial as possible. Islamic teachings are pretty clear on how to deal with those who do not embrace them, and these guys are just adding a bit of the modern twist to them, replacing swords and bows with suicide belts and grenade launchers.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Banning

Nomenclature said:

@JulesKorngold

You're so pathetic it's abhorrent. If you don't like freedom of speech then you're perfectly free to take your anti-Palestinian hate with you and crawl back under the rock you came from. You honestly make me want to vomit.

MineSubCraftStarved
Dee and Nomenclature are not American so they escape any action by the authorities.  They can just be banned by DebateIsland.  As they well know, they can change their user name and IP address to continue their hate.  DebateIsland may need to do what Facebook does - moderate more.

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved ;

It seems to me that your comments are a rather pathetic way to try to excuse your prejudice.

It seems to me your responses are a rather pathetic way to try to excuse your vile bigotry and as evidenced by your total support of a plastic Jew Korngold who openly admitted the enjoyment he gets from watching Palestinian men women and children getting blown to bits 

Pretty vile double standards by you but then again you did admit to supporting ethnic cleansing once it's the Israelis doing it ....

JulesKorngold 464 Pts   -  January 31

Argument Topic: You're Boring Me

@Nomenclature 

I'm gonna watch Israel bomb Gaza on the news.  Bye.

Your comments weren't directed at a specific set of Jewish people. 

Yes they were which I mentioned in this thread but you as usual you being a close minded bigot ignored 

They were directed towards ALL of the Jewish people. 

No they weren't you vile bigot here is what I actually said but you ignored .....

I have no problem or issue with decent Jews who wish to seek peaceful solutions to the issue but you see this does not fit into your pigeon holing of everyone who disagrees with your warped and childish views of such matters as it's far less easier to call everyone who disagrees an "anti- Semite" this all of course when you fight tooth and nail defending people like Cornfed who relish the idea of Palestinians getting blown to bits but of course that's never "Anti  -Palestinian " but merely "defensive " ....right? 

For the record, Jules did not insult you or 'throw a cheap shot' at you in any way. 

Really? Try reading his 16 posts attacking (like you) all Palestinians where I openly only attack the scum like Cornfed you and your type  (who you on your knees are crawling up to )

Tell me bigot what you admire about Cornfeds statement  ?....

JulesKorngold 464 Pts   -  January 31

Argument Topic: You're Boring Me

@Nomenclature 

I'm gonna watch Israel bomb Gaza on the news.  Bye.

To respond to a political statement with bigotry is unacceptable. 

But that's all you do being the bigot you are 

Hey bigot this statement you stand over   is not a "political statement " it's hate speech which being the vile bigot you are you totally stand over , right?

 

JulesKorngold 464 Pts   -  January 31

Argument Topic: You're Boring Me

@Nomenclature 

I'm gonna watch Israel bomb Gaza on the news.  Bye.

Your statement wasn't an argument regarding Israel, it was not a political statement, it was bigotry, pure and simple. 

Nonsense my arguments resisted the notion that you being a hate filled bigot favour which is ethnic cleansing and you now admit supporting others who are in line with your views 

as 

JulesKorngold 464 Pts   -  January 31

Argument Topic: You're Boring Me

@Nomenclature 

I'm gonna watch Israel bomb Gaza on the news.  Bye.

My response was not an attempt to stifle debate, as there was no debate to be had from you. Especially with that kind of statement.


No your response was to remove Cornfeds pants crawl on your knees and lick and  kiss his b-tt like the obedient little pup you are.......you're trying to hard to impress your crush ......cool it 

JulesKorngold 464 Pts   -  January 31

Argument Topic: You're Boring Me

@Nomenclature 

I'm gonna watch Israel bomb Gaza on the news.  Bye.

Barnardot

@MineSubCraftStarved ;The fact that Israel has not done so yet demonstrates its restraint

Thats right and my view is that it is the exstreamists on both sides who are the reel danger to escalating to new levels and Israel has been heavy handed before by showing its mussels whenever the Palestiniand throw to many molotoff cocktales over the fence. The only way to get 2 peoples who hate each others guts to find some sort of peace is for the moderates 

Dee

@Nomenclature

He's American and a plastic Jew so he detests freedom of speech but yet screeches like most Americans " we got us the best freedom of speech in the godammned world" ........yeah sure thing a country where you can say nothing without being censored or "outed" , even this site censors language, Reddit you get banned if you don't support populist American views , Saudi Arabians have more freedom of speech than Americans 

Plastic Jews like Cornfed screech " ban them " unless one plays into the much loved American pro Israeli mantra

MineSubCraftStarved

@Nomenclature

Is this supposed to be a joke? Israel stole Gaza from Egypt in 1967 and held it under illegal military occupation for decades, despite umpteen UN resolutions demanding its return. Huge international political pressure was heaped onto Israel to give it back. 

Only after Egypt was preparing to go to war with Israel and after it blocked the straits of Tiran(which Casus Bali for war after the Suez crisis), thus starving Israel economically for war. Furthermore, Egypt did not even own the land 'legally' by your own standards, as it annexed it forcefully during the war of 1948.

I don't see Israel lobbing rockets at Hamas's civilian centers unprovoked for no reason other than genocide. Hamas advocates for the destruction of the Jewish state and that much is evident. To claim that Israel is somehow the "aggressor"(which you claimed previously in the thread) after it voluntarily withdrew from the land 18 years ago is ridiculous. Hamas today is flooded with billions of dollars today as "aid", and it uses the money, not to help its own people with infrastructure and health services, but to create rockets and create a massive tunnel system in order to transport terrorists around Gaza and to and from Israel. Ironic how Israel offers more civil and legal rights to Arabs than any Arabic country. Israel is rated 7.66 in terms of freedom according to the World Population Review, while Syria, unsurprisingly is rated 3.66. Today, Syria's central government under Al-Assad has been active in countless human rights cases of abuse of his own citizens. Israel meanwhile, manages to have such representation within its electorate that last year both Arab and Jewish parties ruled the Israeli government. Despite these obvious differences, Israel, a democratic and free country received 15 condemnations, while the rest of the world receives 13 last year(including the despotic Syrian Arab Republic among other Tyrannical Nations). It's true that large international pressures have been given on Israel, but this is drastically misdirected. The world is more concerned with Israeli housing projects than with ethnic genocides, religious persecutions, persecution of ideology, and major international wars. This is unethical and improper. The actions of the UN are irrelevant as its biases are already extremely prevalent in the country. Why does a country like Luxembourg, a country well known for its liberal policies, earn the same vote as a country like Venezuela or Saudi Arabia? How can this be considered a fair system?

@Barnardot
I agree that there are extremists on both sides. On one side you have Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist organizations, which seek to exterminate the Jewish population and genocide them. While on the other you have various Kahanist groups advocating for the expulsion of the Arab population from Israel.
The fact of the matter is, there appears to be no diplomatic peace on the horizon. Those in Judea and Samaria and Gaza are around 93% of the time anti-Semitic. A populace that hates Jews so much would never have much of an intention to find peace with them. Even when offered virtually the entirety of the West Bank and Gaza, Yasser Arafat, widely regarded as the main Palestinian leader and representative, rejected it. This demonstrates how the Palestinian cause is not directed towards any sort of compromise or two-state solution, but rather towards the complete annexation of the Jewish state. Indeed, this sentiment goes back further. For example, Jamal Husseini, a prominent Arab leader during a conference with Zionist leaders to resolve issues, rejected the idea of a Jewish state at all in Palestine. Al-Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, and Azzam Pasha, the first general secretary of the Arab League supported the genocide of the Jewish people. As did Amin Al-Husseini, the main Palestinian leader and head of the Arab higher committee, whose anti-Semitism has been well-documented.  

The proposals included the establishment of a demilitarized Palestinian state on some 92% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8% of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy "functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel proper; and the organization by the international community of a massive aid program to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation.

Arafat said no. Enraged, Clinton banged on the table and said: "You are leading your people and the region to a catastrophe." A formal Palestinian rejection of the proposals reached the Americans the next day.

The guardian is referenced above.

Regardless, any sort of moderate peace in the near future is off the table. Israel has really two options that would be most beneficial to the Palestinian and Israeli people. Those being either to continue the status quo, or preferably to proceed with a Tri-State solution with Egypt taking Gaza, and Jordan taking Area A of Judea and Samaria, with vital roads connecting area A back to Jordan under Jordanian control.

Nomenclature

@MineSubCraftStarved

Only after Egypt was preparing to go to war with Israel and after it blocked the straits of Tiran(which Casus Bali for war after the Suez crisis), thus starving Israel economically for war.

You literally asked me:-

If Israel was the aggressor, why did it voluntarily withdraw from Gaza?

And I answered you. Israel withdrew from Gaza because it was territory it had stolen from Egypt and held illegally for half a century, ignoring a dozen UN resolutions to give it back. 

Your efforts to deflect my answer to your top-loaded question with more top-loaded, one-sided baloney, completely irrelevant to the question you just asked me, are not appreciated. I would be hard pushed to find a bigger abuser of logical fallacy on this website.

Furthermore, Egypt did not even own the land 'legally' by your own standards, as it annexed it forcefully during the war of 1948

Don't dictate to me what my "standards" are you sophist imbecile. Egypt owned Gaza legally as per the Israeli-Egyptian armistice agreement, which was a signed treaty between both sides. Conversely, the Israeli seizure and occupation of West Jerusalem during the same war was not sanctioned by any such agreement, so your insane double standards are beyond all mortal comprehension. 

I don't see Israel lobbing rockets at Hamas's civilian centers unprovoked for no reason other than genocide.

Then you should perhaps open your eyes.

Israel's military fired white phosphorus over crowded areas of Gaza repeatedly and indiscriminately in its three-week war, killing and injuring civilians and committing war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today.

In a 71-page report, the rights group said the repeated use of air-burst white phosphorus artillery shells in populated areas of Gaza was not incidental or accidental, but revealed "a pattern or policy of conduct".

White phosphorus is a chemical weapon, illegal under the Geneva Conventions. 

That you would accuse Hamas of being the ones trying to cause genocide in the region, rather than the occupying military power which literally shoots women and children dead in the street, is beyond my ability to even contemplate. What a truly horrible, sick person you are.

Barnardot

@Nomenclature Well white prosperous is no big deal any way. My mate used to be a lab boy at school and 1 day he bought home a jar of white phosphorous which is really light yellow any way but it accidentally fell in to his back pack. So what he did was he put a heap of it in a big envelope with a wik then we stopped at the traffic lights and he threw it out just before they turned green. Any way we looked out the back of window after we weelied away and there was more smoke coming off the phospherous that the fats on my mates car which is saying a lot. But all that suff does is stink like a toilet and make a lot of smoke lights so it looks a lot worse than it really is. I bet those Jew boys were just having a bit of fun thats all.

Nomenclature

@Barnardot

Well white prosperous is no big deal any way. 

Buddy, white phosphorus burns you from the inside out. Google "white phosphorus burns" and have a look at some of the images. They're horrible.

Dee

@Barnardot

I bet those Jew boys were just having a bit of fun thats all.

That's your idea of fun?

White phosphorus causes severely painful, partial (second degree) to full thickness (third degree) burns, which have a characteristic yellow color and garlic-like odor. Smoke may release from the burn site from the continued burning of white phosphorus or the formation of phosphoric acid.

Dee

@Nomenclature

He's a truly vile creature and an appalling coward,  he totally lied about a comment I made the other day in an attempt to lick clean Cornfeds b-tt with his tounge, Cornfed gave him the deserved pat on his moon head and the coward just like Excon continued to support Cornfed regards his pleasure at tv footage of the bombings of Palestine. 

Nomenclature

@Dee

He's a truly vile creature and an appalling coward,  he totally lied about a comment I made the other day in an attempt to lick clean Cornfeds b-tt with his tounge, Cornfed gave him the deserved pat on his moon head and the coward just like Excon continued to support Cornfed regards his pleasure at tv footage of the bombings of Palestine. 

He's got no respect for factual reality and simply makes it up as he goes along, as per whatever bias he happens to have on any particular issue. Even worse is that he's a full-blown narcissist, as evidenced by the 10,000 word trash posts he writes. He isn't intelligent enough to write concise arguments, or humble enough to acknowledge valid objections, and presumes that qualifies him as someone whose content you want to spend two hours reading. If I had two hours to spare for reading I'd make damned sure to pick someone who knows what they are talking about and not an imbecile who thinks 1+1=3 is a valid argument, or that Rojava has signed the UN charter.

Dee

@Nomenclature


Even worse is that he's a full-blown narcissist, as evidenced by the 10,000 word trash posts he writes

Yes indeed , the hilarious thing is he refers to his 'novels' as 'his work' proving yet again that the narcissism charge is entirely accurate.

The other day he actually stated Ben Gurion founder of the state of Israel didn't represent Jews , every quote Ben Gurion made was invalid because it was in this imbeciles hopinion 'back alley journalism ' yet everything Benny Harris said was 100 percent correct , except of course when Harris said the ethnic cleansing of Palestine was the thing he recommended , but of course that was not what he really meant but was taken 'out of context' according to the imbecile.

One cannot keep track of his lies and distortions.

Nomenclature

@Dee

Yes indeed , the hilarious thing is he refers to his 'novels' as 'his work' proving yet again that the narcissism charge is entirely accurate

Yup, and the main reason he does it is because he knows full well nobody is going to meticulously comb through each and every word debunking everything. It's a way for him to feel like he won the debate, despite being completely and entirely wrong. It's actually a fairly common tactic among that personality type. Bogan does it too. Just Sayin' is another one. They try to swamp you with so much bulllcrap that you haven't got the time to debunk it all, therefore they get the last word.

One cannot keep track of his lies and distortions.

When he accused Hamas of genocide he lost all credibility in my eyes. Even I agree that Hamas are hardliners, but to flip 60 years of some of the worst human rights abuses in history upside down and pretend like 80 percent of the world hasn't accused Israel of genocide and similar war crimes at the UN is beyond my ability to stomach. That's someone who is too biased to even hope to reason with.

Barnardot

@Dee ;That's your idea of fun?

Well not nower days. We did that in our younger days and any way we speeded off so we didn't see any one get hurt but I didn't read about it in the news paper the next day so I guess every one was ok. In my town we only had one set of traffic lights in the middle of town and on Friday nights thats where every one hanged out and looked cool so thats why we thought it would be funny. But any way in the end i think it was all cool because I reckon the phosphoric acid would have cleaned away our skid marks and when all the cool kids got home that night their moms would probably say hay have you been eating garlic.

Dee

@Barnardot

 I guess you're just behaving like people do who happen to be from a nation of imbeciles  , we shouldn't expect much more fro you or your type.

Barnardot

@Dee ;I guess you're just behaving like people do who happen to be from a nation of imbeciles  , we shouldn't expect much more fro you or your type.

Well it could be worse like there is one limy nation that doesn't have baths and when they do they take it in turns then chuck the babies out in the street like that is so real smart and when they go on vacations and the air plane engines stop it still keeps wineing. And they think that oj was only invented last year and still dont really know what it is. And when they get drunk on real flat warm beer they go outside and some con man sells them slices of eals in jello and little branicals that they pull off boats and then put them in vinegar. Like they are so high class at a total different level than any one else.

MineSubCraftStarved

@Nomenclature

And I answered you. Israel withdrew from Gaza because it was territory it had stolen from Egypt and held illegally for half a century, ignoring a dozen UN resolutions to give it back. 

Untrue, Israel withdrew from Gaza as a result of security concerns, and from a historical perspective, as a result of the many concessions given in the Oslo Accords by Israel to the PLO(specifically the Gaza-Jericho agreements). In fact, Camp David Accords legitimized Israel's control of Gaza for Egypt, Israel also withdrew from Gaza out of Security concerns, rather than political ones.

I would like to emphasize: the “Disengagement Plan” is a security measure and not a political one.

Above is a quote from Ariel Sharon(you can read the full withdrawal plan here), describing the disengagement plan between Israel and Gaza. It clearly describes, such as in the above quote, that the withdrawal was out of security concerns in Gaza, rather than International Pressures as you described. In fact, the withdrawal of Israel from Gaza was a result of the first and second intifadas, rather than meaningless condemnations from the UN. Which ultimately had no effect on Israel economically or militarily, and thus would not have been important to the actions of the Israeli government.
Israel withdrew from Gaza in an attempt to avoid further conflict, rather to instigate it. This directly demonstrates how Israel is not the aggressor in the case of Gaza. They withdrew from Gaza in an attempt for peace by separation, but they are still being attacked by Jew-hating fanatics and militants.

Egypt owned Gaza legally as per the Israeli-Egyptian armistice agreement, which was a signed treaty between both sides.

I already addressed this countless times beforehand. By international law, Egypt annexed the territory of Gaza from the proposed Arab state, and thus constituted an illegal annexation. Egypt did not annex the territory from the allocated Israeli territory, and so any of the terms by Israel and Egypt in the Armistice Treaty could not have legitimized any annexation by Egypt of the Arab state.
In any event, the armistice signed by Israel did not create recognized borders between the two states. But it was an armistice, a simple temporary truce between both sides, rather than a permanent recognized border. Akin to the ceasefire between North and South Korea. Which serves as a temporary truce line, rather than a legitimate political border. Although it was de facto control, it was not de jure legitimacy. Furthermore, Egypt did recognize the legitimacy of Israel's control over Gaza during the Camp David Accords, and Jordan recognized Israeli control of the West Bank and Jerusalem during their own peace treaty in 1994. Making the Israeli annexations of Gaza and Judea and Samaria legal.

 Conversely, the Israeli seizure and occupation of West Jerusalem during the same war were not sanctioned by any such agreement, so your insane double standards are beyond all mortal comprehension. 

Neither was the Jordanian seizure and occupation of East Jerusalem during the same war. Along with the rest of Judea and Samaria.

White phosphorus is a chemical weapon, illegal under the Geneva Conventions. 

Israel's use of shelling was within the restrictions of international law, and was only intended to be used as a smoke obscurant or targeting beacon.

Israel‘s use of shells containing white phosphorous as a smoke obscurant, for example, was consistent with — and not prohibited by — applicable rules of international law and permitted the IDF to avoid the use of high explosives and munitions that would have otherwise been necessary to protect Israeli forces.

Furthermore, many other countries have also participated in the use of White phosphorous. For example, the USA has used white phosphorous as recently as 2017, or by Azerbaijan just two years ago. The use of White Phosphorous is not uncommon, and is used often by a large amount of Governments today(without huge repercussions and condemnations from the international community, unlike Israel).

That you would accuse Hamas of being the ones trying to cause genocide in the region, rather than the occupying military power which literally shoots women and children dead in the street,

I commend the fact that you have agreed with my argument, that Hamas is attempting genocide on the Jewish people.
I assume that by saying "occupying military power," you are referring to Israel. But, Israel is not occupying Gaza by any measure for the record. So Israel cannot be called an 'occupying' military power in this case.
Here is another example of Hama's intent to genocide the Jewish people, from the Hamas Charter, Article Seven:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Hamas repeatedly targets populated zones in Israel, like Tel Aviv and Beersheba. Thus this demonstrate how Hamas not only implements genocide through their own words, but also through direct actions to murder the Jewish people. Your attempt to whitewash Hamas as a resistance or reactionary movement is despicable both in your last post and posts previous to it.
Israel, meanwhile is starkly different from Hamas. Over the course of about 16 years, only around 3100 Arabs have been killed by Israel. Amounting to an average of 194 Gazans killed annually by Israeli forces. Israel's killing of civilians can also be largely chalked up as a result of Hamas. Why? Because Hamas regularly hides weapon caches and other important strategic locations in civilian residential areas.
For example:

Were Israel's intent to genocide the Gazan population, as you imply, then it would not allow such a low causality rate of Gazans. Israel has also withdrawn from Area A and partially from Area B of the West bank, why would Israel try doing that if it is attempting genocide? Rather than trying to improve peace?
If you are claiming that Israel shoots Arab women and children dead on the street, than this is largely untrue. When Israel fights and/or kills Palestinians, the vast majority of the time it is when they are terrorists, not civilians. This has been the policy of Israel for some time, and it only makes raids against terrorists, not against any Arab person or family.

Yup, and the main reason he does it is because he knows full well nobody is going to meticulously comb through each and every word debunking everything.

Because unlike you, am I able to use multiple sources, cross examine, and reason with some level of ability, rather than throwing short one-liners and relying on the arguments of others that provide a superficial analysis of the topic at hand.
Understandable that you find it difficult to comprehend that people actually put work into their arguments.

Dee

@Barnardot

Well it could be worse like there is one limy nation that doesn't have baths 


You mean like the one you cannot name? You really are a dumb brute.

Nomenclature

@MineSubCraftStarved

Untrue, Israel withdrew from Gaza as a result of security concerns

If it's untrue then that's even worse, because Israel still held the territory illegally and they were still told multiple times by the United Nations to give it back. But to claim "security concerns" caused them to leave an area they had full military control of since 1967 is ludicrous. What changed for the Israeli military that "security" suddenly became an issue? They had previously been committing human rights abuses in the area for decades without concern, for example:-

Israel's military fired white phosphorus over crowded areas of Gaza repeatedly and indiscriminately in its three-week war, killing and injuring civilians and committing war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza

The Israeli military doesn't seem too concerned about security here:-

Then again, that's probably because the Israeli military likes to hide in command centres and launch chemical weapons attacks at civilian compounds.

Above is a quote from Ariel Sharon

I don't care what the Israelis say because time and again they have proven themselves to be liars. Ariel Sharon is the same man who planned to shoot down a commercial aircraft just to assassinate Yasser Arafat. He's a butcher. 

Equally, posting images from the IDF as if the IDF is somehow a reliable source of information about their own activities is so absurd it doesn't even warrant a serious response. The entire international community has been condemning the actions of the IDF for decades. 

I commend the fact that you have agreed with my argument

I haven't agreed with a single word you have said you utterly delusional clown. All of it is reprehensibly false and contradicted by the established facts. I'm not interested in your absolutely brazen Israeli propaganda. The entire international community has come together to denounce Israel's genocide against the Palestinians and you are turning that incontestable fact upside down. It doesn't warrant a response, but you can have one anyway, just for being a snake.

The Genocide of the Palestinian People: An International Law and Human Rights Perspective

https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective

Prominent scholars of the international law crime of genocide and human rights authorities take the position that Israel's policies toward the Palestinian people could constitute a form of genocide.

https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2022/01/30/israel-and-genocide/

Israel committing crimes of apartheid and persecution

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56898864

UN says Israel's killings at Gaza protests may amount to war crimes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/28/gaza-israel-un-inquiry-killings-protest-war-crimes-army

Israel 'will not co-operate' with ICC war crimes investigation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-56687437

Israel has not just committed unspeakable acts of genocide but done so with absolute transparency.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2016/12/29/israels-never-ending-crimes-its-not-just-settlements/

'When Genocide is Permissible' article removed from The Times of Israel website

Yochanan Gordon argued that Hamas must be "completely obliterated"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-when-genocide-is-permissible-article-removed-from-the-times-of-israel-website-9643888.html

Israel’s ‘shocking disregard’ for Palestinian lives may amount to war crimes

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestine-war-crimes-amnesty-b1849192.html

Iran accuses Israel of genocide and crimes against humanity

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/16/watchiran-accuses-israel-genocide-crimes-against-humanity/

UN: 80 per cent of Palestinians killed in Israeli offensive are civilians

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10967279/UN-80-per-cent-of-Palestinians-killed-in-Israeli-offensive-are-civilians.html

A United Nations panel of human rights experts has accused Israel of war crimes through willful killing, unnecessary brutality and torture.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/23/un-panel-israel-war-crimes

According to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. Widely viewed as an ally of the US and Israel, Ban nonetheless has labeled Israel's deliberate targeting of UN schools in Gaza a “gross violation of international humanitarian law.”

https://www.vice.com/en/article/7b77xx/israels-war-on-gaza-is-it-genocide-813

‘It’s genocide’: Protesters slam Israel, support Palestinians

From Amman and Baghdad to London and Berlin, thousands gather across the world to protest Israeli attacks on Gaza.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/15/thousands-rally-across-different-countries-to-back-palestinians

Israel is accused of war crime after school shelling kills 20 refugees.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article4161788.ece

Doctors in Gaza described today how they had struggled to treat dozens of patients with terrible and unusually deadly burns consistent with white phosphorus weapons, during Israel's three-week war in Gaza.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jan/21/gaza-phosphorus-israel

The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2014/jul/23/un-high-commissioner-navi-pillay-war-crimes-israel

Israeli air strikes during the summer’s Gaza war with Hamas repeatedly inflicted harm and death on civilians that could have been avoided, Amnesty International has charged in a new report.

The report, Families Under the Rubble, examines eight cases of targeted Israeli air strikes that killed at least 111 people, 104 of whom were civilians.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-s-air-strikes-on-gaza-could-be-war-crimes-9839918.html

Human Rights Watch accused Israel of committing war crimes by attacking three U.N.-run schools in the Gaza Strip in fighting in July and August, killing Palestinian civilians who had sheltered there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-gaza-war-idUSKBN0H60XZ20140911

But it's OK. You just keep turning factual reality upside down pal. Keep accusing the Palestinians of being the ones committing gross human rights atrocities in the region. Keep ignoring everything except the IDF's own cynical and absurd propaganda. Keep writing 10,000 word posts of sheer, unadulterated nonsense. It only serves to discredit you as a pathetic shill with zero credibility.

Barnardot

@Dee ;You mean like the one you cannot name? You really are a dumb brute.

Yeah a limy comes from Britain you know that back ward country where they haven't invented baths yet and only discovered oj yesterday and dont exactly know what it does and when you go to there pubs every one looks around and says nothing and the beer is warm and flat and the food looks and tastes like dog diarea and they put lemonade in there warm flat beer and guiness then when they go out side after wards they puke it all up and decide that there hungry again so they go to the only place thats open which is a broken down mini van and a sleezy fat guy with wiskers and a gigarette hanging out of his mouth who says are you right gov.Then on the menu is a slopey pie with dog meet in it but mostly gravy and watery pees that are all mushed up or if you dont want that you can have winkels which are socked in vinegar and look like pieces of snot and then the real top shelf stuff is the half cooked eel in gello. And then they go home to there little houses paid for by the council and creep up stairs then do there wife then puke up again on the bed room floor and then the only thing that gets them up in the morning is when they doo doo the bed. Yeah sure they are way more advanced than Americans.

Nomenclature

@Barnardot

Yeah a limy comes from Britain you know that back ward country where they haven't invented baths yet

Britain isn't a country you absolute dope. 

There's a city in England literally called Bath, and it's named after the Roman baths which were built there in the first century AD.

Barnardot

@Nomenclature ; Britain isn't a country you absolute dope. 

Who said it is you absolute dope.

There's a city in England literally called Bath, and it's named after the Roman baths which were built there in the first century AD.

And its a pitty that the limys didn't take lessons off the romans in how to wash. may be the limys got lost on the straight roads trying to get to the baths.

MineSubCraftStarved

@Nomenclature

But to claim "security concerns" caused them to leave an area they had full military control of since 1967 is ludicrous.

Because it was seen that withdrawal was the only real way to achieve peace in the region. And that they were controlling a population that thoroughly hated them. Furthermore, the first and second intifadas, as mentioned previously, did lead to a large amount of Israeli casualties, which thus lead to withdrawal. The failings of the first and second Oslo accords demonstrated that peace could not be achieved through negotiations, and thus, withdrawal was the only measure left open to the Israeli government to find stability. I already explained this...

They had previously been committing human rights abuses in the area for decades without concern, for example:-

Your "example" pertains to the time period after the Israeli withdrawal, which doesn't support your claim that they had been committing human rights violations prior to it. It's irrelevant.

Israel's military fired white phosphorus over crowded areas of Gaza repeatedly and indiscriminately in its three-week war, killing and injuring civilians and committing war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today.

Here is what your report stated:

In the six cases documented in this report alone, which represent a selection of white phosphorus attacks in Gaza, white phosphorus shells, burning white phosphorus wedges, or the resulting fires killed 12 civilians,

Apparently Israel's "massive" overuse of white phosphorous as war crimes only resulted in the deaths of 12 civilians. This demonstrates how your claim of Israeli war crimes is simply ridiculous. You are drawing on the mistakes of six individual airstrikes, that only resulted in the deaths of 12 people, as evidence of systemic war crimes perpetrated by a country of around 10 million. It's ludicrous.

Equally, posting images from the IDF as if the IDF is somehow a reliable source of information about their own activities is so absurd it doesn't even warrant a serious response.

It is also as disingenuous, if not more so, to post blatantly anti-Israeli biased HROs and UN reports as you . And to also post state-owned Qatar Propaganda(Al-Jazeera). And unlike those sources, the IDF, having primary intelligence of results on the battlefield, would be more accurate than any of those listed previously.
Here are several other sources demonstrating the willingness of Hamas to use human shields:
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/182741
https://www.investigativeproject.org/7842/hamas-systematic-use-of-civilians-to-promote
https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/hamas-exploitation-of-civilians-as-human-shields-photographic-evidence
https://www.fdd.org/2020/10/15/time-to-act-on-human-shields/

The entire international community has come together to denounce Israel's genocide against the Palestinians and you are turning that incontestable fact upside down. It doesn't warrant a response, but you can have one anyway, just for being a snake.

Here is the definition of genocide according to Merriam Webster:
The deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.
Going by this definition, Israel certainly is not hoping to achieve the destruction as Palestinians. Israel's repeated withdrawals from Area A of the west Bank and Gaza demonstrate Israel's respect of Palestinian cultural independence and thus preservation, rather than destruction.
Israel, when in conflict with Gaza has taken drastic measure to avoid the killing of civilians. As I mentioned in a previous post as an example, Israel repeatedly uses the strategy of "roof-knocking" to alert inhabitants of a building that it is going to be bombed, in order to allow for evacuation of civilian personnel.
Were Israel attempting genocide, why would it hold Palestinian lives in such a way? Israel would be much better off bombing it straight away, rather than giving time for Hamas terrorists to escape with some armaments. But Israel has demonstrated a cautious approach towards fighting terrorists that specifically avoids casualties. Were Israel hoping to genocide the Palestinian people, this would not be the case.

If Israel was genociding it's Arab populace, why was it ruled by an Arab party just last year? If Israel was genociding the Palestinians, why did it withdraw from Gaza and Area A? Why would it allow a semi-hostile opposing government to take control in Area A of Judea and Samaria, or allow for perpetual bombardment of its own populace by Gaza?
The international community also at one point had a consensus that Jews were greedy scumbags, but does that make that opinion any more objectively valid? To take your bandwagon fallacy to another step, if everyone in the world told you to jump of a cliff, would you? It should also be noted that few countries even accuse Israel of systematic genocide, and the majority reject such a notion.

Nomenclature

@MineSubCraftStarved

Because it was seen that withdrawal was the only real way to achieve peace in the region.

Oh, was it really? That's fantastic. So, it took the Israelis 40 years to figure out that "the only real way to achieve peace in the region" was to stop building their houses on land they were occupying illegally, contrary to both international law and countless UN resolutions telling them to get out? What a joke. Your bias is beyond bias and into full-blown delusion.

And that they were controlling a population that thoroughly hated them.

Obviously. That's what happens when you invade a region and treat the indigenous population like dogs. 

The failings of the first and second Oslo accords demonstrated that peace could not be achieved through negotiations

Negotiations? What the Israelis were doing was completely illegal. Criminals don't get to negotiate whether or not they want to obey the law you arrogant twonk.

Your "example" pertains to the time period after the Israeli withdrawal, which doesn't support your claim that they had been committing human rights violations prior to it. It's irrelevant.

Yes, you are correct about this, at least. I didn't check the date properly. However, it was a simple oversight, and certainly detracts nothing from the fact that the Israelis have been committing human rights atrocities in the region for decades. Even ex-Israeli military veterans have testified to this so it is indisputable. For example:-

"A Palestinian neighbour is brought in," he says. "It was procedure. The soldier places his gun barrel on the civilian's shoulder."

If true, that was a clear breach of the international laws of war - which say soldiers have a duty of care to non-combatants - and of Israeli law.

The Israeli Supreme Court outlawed the so-called "neighbour policy", of using Palestinians to shield advancing troops, in 2005.

Until now, the Israeli army always had a ready answer to allegations that war crimes were committed during its offensive in Gaza.

Such claims were, they said, Palestinian propaganda.

Now, though, the accusations of abuse are being made by Israeli soldiers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8151336.stm

And to think that the Israelis regularly accuse Hamas of being the ones who use human shields. Disgusting.

There are countless other testimonies of the abuses of the Israeli military made by the Israelis themselves. Here's another example:-

An Israeli military college has printed damning soldiers' accounts of the killing of civilians and vandalism during recent operations in Gaza.

One account tells of a sniper killing a mother and children at close range whom troops had told to leave their home.

Another speaker at the seminar described what he saw as the "cold blooded murder" of a Palestinian woman.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7952603.stm

It really makes no difference whether these atrocities were committed prior to or after the Israeli withdrawal, because they confirm unequivocally that "peace" is not what the Israelis are interested in. These human rights abuses most certainly didn't suddenly begin in 2005. They stretch back many decades:-

October 8, 1990: In the bloodiest day of the intifada, Israeli police respond to a Palestinian demonstration by killing 20 people and wounding many others. Called the incident of the Temple Mount, the Palestinians were protesting plans by an Israeli fringe group to construct a Jewish temple on the site of Jerusalem’s holiest Islamic shrines.

https://coldwarstudies.com/2012/12/11/palestine-israel-timeline-1990-1996/

Apparently Israel's "massive" overuse of white phosphorous as war crimes only resulted in the deaths of 12 civilians.

No, that isn't what the report said. The report said 12 civilians were killed in the 6 cases which were investigated. It also said:-

White phosphorus munitions did not kill the most civilians in Gaza – many more died from missiles, bombs, heavy artillery, tank shells, and small arms fire – but their use in densely populated neighborhoods, including downtown Gaza City, violated international humanitarian law (the laws of war), which requires taking all feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm and prohibits indiscriminate attacks.

The unlawful use of white phosphorus was neither incidental nor accidental.  It was repeated over time and in different locations, with the IDF "air-bursting" the munition in populated areas up to the last days of its military operation.  Even if intended as an obscurant rather than as a weapon, the IDF's repeated firing of air-burst white phosphorus shells from 155mm artillery into densely populated areas was indiscriminate and indicates the commission of war crimes.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza

But since you are only reading the parts you want to read, and then spinning them any way you can, you probably didn't read the actual report, did you?

I tell you what. I'll come over and burn your entire extended family to death from the inside out with an illegal chemical weapon, then you can sit down afterwards and tell me how that isn't a problem, yes?

This demonstrates how your claim of Israeli war crimes is simply ridiculous.

It isn't my claim, it's the report's claim, and your idea that war crimes are defined exclusively by how many innocent people die in them is the only thing which is ridiculous. You're absurd to the point that you are absolutely comical.

You are drawing on the mistakes of six individual airstrikes

Oh, I see. The Israelis fired airburst shells containing an illegal chemical weapon (at least) six times over densely populated civilian areas of Gaza, by "mistake"? Lmfao.

It is also as disingenuous, if not more so, to post blatantly anti-Israeli biased HROs

Hahaha. Human rights groups have no reason to be biased against Israel. Your false claims of bias are a disgusting and absurd effort to turn factual reality upside down. Human rights groups are critical of Israel only because the Israelis are the ones who have been committing the human rights abuses it is their job to investigate and document.

You're habitually dishonest and -- frankly -- a disgusting excuse for a human being.

Here are several other sources demonstrating the willingness of Hamas to use human shields

Oh, the Israeli National News? Yes, that's definitely not a biased source. The Israeli government website? Is this actually supposed to a be a joke? First you accuse multiple third party, non-government human rights groups and the UN itself of anti-Israeli bias, then you source the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and expect to be taken seriously? What utterly stunning absurdity. This link in particular caught my interest:-

https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/hamas-exploitation-of-civilians-as-human-shields-photographic-evidence

I was truly hoping to see some photographic evidence, so you can imagine my heartbroken disappointment when I clicked on the link and found absolutely nothing of the kind. I found one blurred photograph taken in the dark in which nothing except blurred blobs are visible. Meanwhile, in just 30 seconds I managed to find documented testimony from Israeli soldiers that Israel regularly used human shields in Gaza as part of its general military policy. Go figure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8151336.stm

You are a disgusting joke of a man. An evil, delusional genocide apologist who simply twists factual reality inside out like it is some type of silly putty.

JulesKorngold

Signs that may indicate pathological antagonism:

1. Persistent negativity: Individuals with pathological antagonism may consistently view others and the world in a negative light. They may also engage in a lot of criticism, sarcasm, and cynicism.

2. Disregard for social norms: People with this trait may have little regard for social norms and conventions, and may even violate them without remorse. They may also engage in aggressive behavior or show a lack of empathy.

3. A strong desire for control: Pathologically antagonistic individuals may feel a need to control situations and people around them. They may struggle with accepting authority and rules that they perceive as limiting their freedom.

4. Difficulty in building and maintaining relationships: People with pathological antagonism may have difficulty in forming and maintaining healthy relationships. They may be seen as overly critical, aggressive, or argumentative, leading to conflicts and difficulties in interpersonal interactions.

5. A lack of personal responsibility: Individuals with this trait may struggle with taking responsibility for their own actions, and may instead blame others or external factors for their difficulties and problems.

Nomenclature

@JulesKorngold

Signs that may indicate a pathological li-ar.

1) Repeatedly projects offences committed by himself or his brethren onto others. For example, if the Israeli military has a policy of using human shields, he will continuously accuse Hamas of that exact crime.

"A Palestinian neighbour is brought in," he says. "It was procedure. The soldier places his gun barrel on the civilian's shoulder."

If true, that was a clear breach of the international laws of war - which say soldiers have a duty of care to non-combatants - and of Israeli law.

The Israeli Supreme Court outlawed the so-called "neighbour policy", of using Palestinians to shield advancing troops, in 2005.

Until now, the Israeli army always had a ready answer to allegations that war crimes were committed during its offensive in Gaza.

Such claims were, they said, Palestinian propaganda.

Now, though, the accusations of abuse are being made by Israeli soldiers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8151336.stm

MineSubCraftStarved

@Nomenclature

Obviously. That's what happens when you invade a region and treat the indigenous population like dogs. 

The modern Palestinian population can hardly be considered "indigenous," as the vast majority of Palestinian descendants arrived in mandatory Palestine during the late 19th century and early to mid 20th centuries. This topic of immigration I covered extensively in a previous thread.
I also fail to see how the modern Arab population in Israel is treated by dogs. Apart from the Trucial states, Arabs in Israel have a higher standard of living than in any Arab country. And it treats its Arab citizens better than any country present in the Arab league today. If Israel treated them like dogs, why was there an Arab party in power just last year?

Negotiations? What the Israelis were doing was completely illegal. Criminals don't get to negotiate whether or not they want to obey the law you arrogant twonk.

Under international agreements, such as the Camp David Accords and the 1994 Israel-Jordan peace treaty, Egypt and Jordan recognized the gains made by Israel after the 1967 war. Thus, Israel's holdings in these regions are valid under international law. Palestine never existed, nor does it exist today...
Therefore, Israel cannot be occupying "Palestinian" land illegally. Israel had no international legal obligation to offer the arch-terrorist Yasser Arafat(and the rest of the PLO) virtually the entirety of the West Bank and Gaza, as Ehud Barak did during the Second Oslo Accords. Yet it did so anyways, the negotiations offered by Israel were purely made for peace in the middle east, rather than bending to arbitrary international law.
Even assuming that what Israel did was illegal annexation, and continues to be. Such conquering was for essential security concerns of the Jewish state, without Judea and Samaria, the width of Israel at its lowest point is around 10 kilometers, and the distance from Judea and Samaria to Gaza is around 50 kilometers. In case of a war, this is a strategically unfeasible option. Furthermore, Israel is a small country, and needs territory to develop infrastructure and its economy, and also create new housing. The annexations of Judea and Samaria and Gaza were also used as war concessions from Egypt and Jordan, which countries have done for an immeasurable amount of times in the past.

And to think that the Israelis regularly accuse Hamas of being the ones who use human shields. Disgusting.

I'm not saying that everything that Israel does is good, and the use of the "neighbor procedure" was a deplorable action. But, Israel has adjusted itself and stopped such practices. Hamas, however, has not, and continues to use human shields far more and in a far worse way. Israel's use of human shields of foreigners was to protect its own citizens and soldiers, although this was bad. Hamas's use of human shields of the people that they are responsible for and that they govern only to protect their own terrorists, rocket sites and armaments, is far worse.

No, that isn't what the report said. The report said 12 civilians were killed in the 6 cases which were investigated.

This means that they only managed to find 12 civilian deaths as a result of white phosphorous, which is what I stated and what you agree with, the report stated.

These human rights abuses most certainly didn't suddenly begin in 2005. They stretch back many decades:-

The incident you cited was also not even in Gaza, it occurred in the old city of Jerusalem, which makes it irrelevant to the discussion of "Israeli human rights abuses in Gaza."
Furthermore, it was well reported that at the temple mount, Jewish worshippers were violently attacked by mobs with stones, and security forces were also attacked, leading to a shootout and Palestinian deaths. This wasn't a peaceful demonstration of Arabs onto Jewish security forces and worshippers. This was a violent attack, and was not the first one to occur at the temple mount. In fact, Muslims incited the attack on the worshippers on the mount, which thus lead to a conflict between Israeli security forces and thus the deaths. It wasn't a massacre. Soldiers are allowed to defend themselves after being attacked.
https://books.google.com/books?id=xfxABPA2q0cC&q=%22began+throwing+stones+at+the+Jews+conducting%22&pg=PA1#v=snippet&q=%22began%20throwing%20stones%20at%20the%20Jews%20conducting%22&f=false

and your idea that war crimes are defined exclusively by how many innocent people die in them is the only thing which is ridiculous.

It is more ridiculous to condemn Israel of systematic abuse international law and breach of international use of chemicals weapons after the deaths of only a handful of individuals. War is hell, and to say that it should be expected to be as humanitarian and adequately executed as possible is ridiculous. Individual air strikes do on occasion do miss their targets, and on occasion, isolated soldiers or groups of soldiers do commit gruesome acts, not just in Israel, but in other countries as well. But these occur in such few frequency and cause so little deaths, that to use this as evidence of Israel's genocidal intentions or as a general policy of Israel is ludicrous. For example, the Biscari massacre, perpetrated by American troops on Italian and German POWs killed 6 times as many people as the total documented by Israeli white phosphorus. Yet despite this, America is typically not a country that was accused of systematic war crimes and genocide since such incidents during world war two, again, occurred with very few frequencies and deaths.

Oh, I see. The Israelis fired airburst shells containing an illegal chemical weapon (at least) six times over densely populated civilian areas of Gaza, by "mistake"? Lmfao.

Were Israel attempting to genocide or kill the Gazan populations, it would send a lot more than 6 airstrikes of white phosphorous, and would likely use much more powerful ordinance. Accidents are by far the more logical reason for isolated uses of white phosphorous in dense areas in Gaza.

Hahaha. Human rights groups have no reason to be biased against Israel. Your false claims of bias are a disgusting and absurd effort to turn factual reality upside down. Human rights groups are critical of Israel only because the Israelis are the ones who have been committing the human rights abuses it is their job to investigate and document.

Today, Israel has a human rights index of 0.85/1. This respectably high number sits far and above most other countries. Yet despite this, international organizations such as the United Nations and Amnesty International regularly target Israel. The United Nations, for example, has targeted Israel far more than any other country in the world, in fact, out of the 28 condemnations this year, 15 were directed towards Israel. Apparently Russia's war against Ukraine constituted around a third as many condemnations as those against Israel. Syria and Iran were condemned only once as well. This demonstrates overall the bias of the International community towards Israel, and especially the United Nations.

Oh, the Israeli National News? Yes, that's definitely not a biased source. The Israeli government website? Is this actually supposed to a be a joke?

I also posted two other sources there were unaffiliated with Israel. One of which was a counter-terrorist site. Of course you refused to address them and instead nitpicked my argument. Stop commiting selective argumentation.

What a joke. Your bias is beyond bias and into full-blown delusion.
you arrogant twonk.
You're absurd to the point that you are absolutely comical.
Hahaha
You're habitually dishonest and -- frankly -- a disgusting excuse for a human being.
Your false claims of bias are a disgusting and absurd effort to turn factual reality upside down.
You are a disgusting joke of a man. An evil, delusional genocide apologist who simply twists factual reality inside out like it is some type of silly putty.

Interesting use of ad hominem repeatedly It should be noted that if you constantly throw insults at the other person. It may demonstrate to the audience that you are either rude have little to no restraint, or have la little argument and thus relies on insults. This is a debate site, not a high school screaming contest.

Nomenclature

@MineSubCraftStarved

The modern Palestinian population can hardly be considered "indigenous," as the vast majority of Palestinian descendants arrived in mandatory Palestine during the late 19th century and early to mid 20th centuries.

What an absolute clown. So all Jews are Hebrews with an indigenous claim to Israel, whereas the Palestinians are not indigenous to the region they were living in when the Israelis took over their homes? You are so exhaustively biased that it makes everything you write self-contradictory and hilarious. A simple Wikipedia search shows that Palestinians were already living in Palestine during the days of the Ottoman Empire, which dates back to the sixteenth century. It also shows that you are myth-building:-

Whether there was significant Arab immigration into Palestine during the 19th and 20th centuries, especially after the beginning of Zionist settlement there in the late 19th century has become a matter of some controversy. It is known that the Arab population of Palestine doubled during the British Mandate era, from 670,000 in 1922 to over 1.2 million in 1948, and there has been considerable debate over the subject on how much of this growth was due to natural increase, as opposed to immigration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#Late_Arab_and_Muslim_immigration_to_Palestine

Under international agreements, such as the Camp David Accords and the 1994 Israel-Jordan peace treaty, Egypt and Jordan recognized the gains made by Israel after the 1967 war.

So you're saying that agreements dating twenty seven years after Israel acquired the land illegally, exonerate Israel from its responsibilities under international law for the twenty seven years it had already held the land? Quite literally comical, but of course nowhere near as comical as your idea that a treaty between Israel and Jordan has any bearing on land seized from Egypt.

This means that they only managed to find 12 civilian deaths as a result of white phosphorous

No, it means they investigated 6 cases and these were the total dead in the 6 cases they investigated. You can't acknowledge one figure (i.e. 12 dead)  and then ignore the other figure (i.e. 6 cases investigated). What is wrong with you?

The incident you cited was also not even in Gaza, it occurred in the old city of Jerusalem

Incident? I cited three incidents. The first story I linked is literally entitled:-

Breaking silence on Gaza abuses

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8151336.stm

Jewish worshippers were violently attacked by mobs with stones

Oh please. Throwing stones at each other was something we did on a daily basis during my childhood. Nobody got shot dead because of it. We all lived. Shooting people who are throwing stones is not a proportionate response you absolute psychopath. The UN literally issued a Resolution against Israel for the attacks:-

Res. 672 (Oct. 12, 1990) – "Expresses alarm at the violence which took place" on October 8, 1990, "at the Al Haram al Shareef and other Holy Places of Jerusalem resulting in over twenty Palestinian deaths and to the injury of more than one hundred and fifty people, including Palestinian civilians and innocent worshippers", "Condemns especially the acts of violence committed by the Israeli forces resulting in injuries and loss of human life."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Temple_Mount_riots

Today, Israel has a human rights index of 0.85/1. This respectably high number sits far and above most other countries.

Roflmao.

The U.N.’s top human rights body has officially declared Israel as the world’s worst human rights violator- beating Iran, North Korea, Russia and China for the number 1 spot. 

https://newspunch.com/un-declares-israel-as-having-worlds-worst-human-rights/

Unlawful killings of Palestinian civilians, including children, and thousands of Palestinians detained who protested against or otherwise opposed Israel’s continuing military occupation, holding hundreds in administrative detention; Torture and other ill-treatment remained rife and were committed with impunity; Israeli settlers in the West Bank attacked Palestinians and their property with virtual impunity.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/amnesty-international-reveals-the-10-worst-attacks-on-human-rights-across-the-world-last-year-a6892911.html

You know what? You're so disgustingly dishonest I'll waste no more time with you. You evidently have not the slightest interest in remaining truthful and I fail to see how that even qualifies as debate. You distort, twist, obfuscate, lie and use any fallacy you can think of to exonerate your indefensible bias, then deploy mock outrage when your deceit and deceptions are met with displeasure. 

Any criticism of Israel's monstrous human rights abuses you automatically label anti-Semitic, even when that criticism comes from credible human rights agencies and the UN human rights council. It is sick. Your attitude is sick, your mind is sick, and you have all the excuse-ridden personality traits of a full-blown sociopath. These delusional stories of yours about Israelis being perpetual victims of bias and prejudice were the exact same stories Hitler told about the Aryans. They are identical. 

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Child Soldiers of Hamas

Nomenclature

@JulesKorngold

That's a blatantly fake photo and you're a blatantly dishonest scumbag.