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How does evolution account for rationality and reasoning?
in General

By LogicLogic 254 Pts
Natural selection only accounts for survival and reproduction, So why is it that we are so good at reasoning? Some might argue reasoning is needed for survival, But if you argue that, Then We should have the rationality of a dog.  We should say 'I lost count' When asked how many kids we have.  So there are two cases : 
God created evolution, And gave us the ability to reason.
The evolution model should be thrown out and replaced with something new in the future
  1. Live Poll


    7 votes
    1. Choice one : God created
    2. Choice to: New model

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  • Reasoning is an evolving concept.  In the future, Artificial Intelligence based computers can "reason" much more than us.  
  • @Logic, I am unclear with your specific point about theory of evolution.  Evolution argues that our brain has evolved and supports a higher level of cognitive function.  That makes us smarter than a monkey or a dog, and gives us higher level reasoning.  
  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    @islander507  Natural selection accounts for survival and reproduction. Our level of reasoning surpasses that which we should have.  
    It should have stopped evolving, Just like some animals have stopped evolving.   [Also, Choice 2 can also mean keep evolution]  We can create that which is artificial @CuriousGeorge But that has nothing to do with us.  I believe things that are believable.  We could survive with the reasoning level of a dog, And since Natural Selection only accounts fore SURVIVAL and reproduction. We shouldn't have this level of reasoning.
  • randalrandal 67 Pts
    There is no realisitc expanation on this other that God created everything, which I believe as well.
  • spandamspandam 43 Pts
    I agree with @randal .
  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    Well it goes two ways really, crated and evolved created. That's if you believe god.
  • thereptherep 61 Pts
    God created everything. Scientists have no other explanation.
  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    @therep  I agree. But at the same time you can throw out science, It's something we need. However i choose not to put my faith in science because it's laws are always changing. 
  • @Logic, you don't belive in science because it's evolving as more discoveries are made.  Niether side can prove or disprove- so who has burden or prove?
  • @Logic, natural selection resulted innus developing a larger brain so we can outsmart other creatures and survive. That larger brain enabled reasoning.
  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    @islander507  Why are we the only creatures that have done this then? Why isn't the lion evolving to become smarter than us. At the time when we had the highest intelligence and level of reasoning, Is when we should have stopped evolving. And that is probably the caveman level. 

  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    @CuriousGeorge Let's say i believe science and throw out religion because of a specific discovery okay?  Then i live my whole life and die, And turns out heaven and hell is real. And that discovery was falsified 10 years after my death. Paradigm shift.    I'm not gonna gamble with my soul for the sake of science. 
  • @Logic, the same counter argument can be applied the other way.  If you believe in God and it turns out a waste
  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    @CuriousGeorge  Wrong.  Who says you will be aware after your death?  You wouldn't even be able to care that it was  a waste. [And honestly an hour or 2 a day for worshiping god isn't that much of a waste]   But when you die and there IS a god. You not only get punishment, But you will be aware to contemplate your life and decisions 'Why didn't i just believe.' 
  • @Logic, 2 hours per day assuming 8 hour sleep time, that's' 1/8th of every day. That's like 10 years of life wasted if you are wrong :)
  • @Logic When one discusses human evolution it should be in a different way than the evolution of any other creature on the planet. Humans emerged as the dominant species because of their manual dexterity, which then allowed for the development of reasoning and rationality. Bipedalism, flexibility, opposable thumbs, and other physical characteristics developed due to natural selection. These adaptive traits became collectively superior than all other creatures and allowed humans to distinguish themselves as dominant for the following reasons:
    1. Ability to alter their environment, as opposed to adapt to it
    2. Aiming for goals with roots in survival but that transcend the basic need for survival
    3. Specialization and skill within the species
    ...and a few others, but those are the main reasons. All of this sets us apart from every other species and it's the direct result of superior physical characteristics that came out of evolution. It is the third reason I listed in particular that resulted in incredible and rapid cognitive development. Apes first began to use tools, a crucial evolutionary advantage. When individual members developed their own skills people were able to form culture, language, art, science, and all the complex processes we know today.

    There is one line in the Wikipedia article for the evolution of human intelligence that I think sums up human evolution pretty concisely: "These environmental pressures caused selection to favor bipedalism." Such was the case for all other traits we developed on the path to reasoning, including reasoning itself. The natural pressures that came about as the result of environmental changes, such as ice ages, force all species to change and form new traits. At some point, conditions made it crucial for humans to develop reasoning in order to survive. Whether or not those conditions came about as the result of a higher power is in my opinion debatable. Personally I don't believe in a God so I think those conditions came about as the result of circumstances, like the position of the planet in the solar system.

    If you think about how complex life on earth is one might be naturally inclined to assume that only a higher power could have created it. But if you look at the scale of the universe, and think about just how BIG it is, and that there are over 200 billion observable galaxies and each galaxy has billions of its own stars and each star has its own planet system with a few planets each (the average is in between 1 and 2), then how could something like earth and life and reasoning NOT form? We're talking about over 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets, (10 to the 24th power) and that's just in the observable universe. There is absolutely no way of telling what else could be out there - it's just beyond the comprehension of humanity. But by the limits of our own reasoning, relatively speaking, I do not think we are that special or that our circumstances are that unique. Compared to the solar system, the galaxy, or even our local galaxy cluster, yes, we might be unique - but that there is maybe .001% of the universe, so it's probably not so remarkable.

  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    Regarding the first part of your reply ; 
    We could have survived the ice age had we evolved faster legs, Stronger arms so on so forth.  The stronger our limbs get the better we could be, We never exactly NEEDED reasoning.  
    Regarding the second part ; 
    Yes, So many planets. In which SO many are not in a green zone [i think that's what it's called] for life. And even the ones IN the green zone, We still haven't seen any life. I don't reject the fact that there is too much chance for aliens . I actually believe aliens exist . But i do think we are special, Do you see how precise our planet is for life? So perfect there are billions of us, People living all around  the world.  And it's 1 in a qaudrillion [some random thing like that with tons of zeros after it :D]
    That the earth exists and is perfect for life. It could have messed up so easily, Yet it didn't. It's hard for me not to see a higher power when  looking at the earth.  Also, Another thing is ; The innate belief in god that people have. There was a research done  on children, To see if they believed in god. Small children who don't know religion even. And most if not all said yes. Even an atheist woman admitted that there is an innate belief of god inside of people. So with that i came to the conclusion that we are born theists, And taught atheism or religion.  I don't think that we exist because of a pure accident, Nor do i want to ever believe this. But hey, I'm open for reality. But as of now my reality is i am created by a higher being.
  • I agree with @logic .
  • I really hope this is a troll thread. Reasoning is an evolutionary concept too. Animal coginition is a real thing. Other animals have the reasoning and planning capacities like us. Dolphins and chimpanzees are shown to be just as reasonable as humans. Pigs are shown to be as reasonable and smart as threee year olds. All studies were conducted by brock university. 
  • LogicLogic 254 Pts
    @noblemonkey I hope this isn't an arrogant comment.  Oh wait! It is...
    If you think i came to this site knowing every single detail about EVERYTHING, Then you really must be special. 
  • @islander507 On your topic there, you could say, if God wasn't real and you just ceased to exist after death, then you really wasted time doing anything.  If you just stop living, what was the point of anything you did?  
  • Evolution is simply the gradual change and development of matter.
    Organic evolution is one stage in that process.
    Rationality and reasoning are one stage in the process of organic evolution.
    I think it's fair to suggest, that rationality and reasoning could eventually bring about the end of organic dominance.
    And that we will eventually be superseded by a sentient inorganic intelligence.
    Hoisted by our own petard.

    Of course the two big questions are:
    Why does matter exist?
    Is there any point in all this?

    And of course. No one actually knows the answers.

    And God remains just an unproved theory.
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