Liberals atheists and new atheism. Do liberals hate atheists and new atheism? If so why?

anarchist100

Your problem is that you're over simplifying things, Atheists and Liberals are both large groups and people in both these groups will not always agree.
And the religious correlation with politics is not that simple as you think, there are plenty of conservative atheists and religious Christians.

Dreamer

Argument Topic: Liberals hate atheists and new atheism because they believe in God and see atheism as the enemy while seeing new atheists as bigots.

I still believe weakly in the new atheist movement. Not every faith can be correct. At the very least we could end religious exemptions for vaccines.

Here's why liberals believe what they do:

https://www.salon.com/2021/06/05/how-the-new-atheists-merged-with-the-far-right-a-story-of-intellectual-grift-and-abject-surrender/

"Godless grifters: How the New Atheists merged with the far right What once seemed like a bracing intellectual movement has degenerated into a pack of abusive, small-minded bigots By Émile P. Torres"

"A movement supposedly committed to science and reason has decayed into racism, misogyny and intolerance. I'm done"

https://www.salon.com/2017/07/29/from-the-enlightenment-to-the-dark-ages-how-new-atheism-slid-into-the-alt-right/

https://feministfrequency.com/video/the-freq-show-manufacturing-a-muslim-menace/

Then, there is elevatorgate. Rebecca Watson used to have a wall of hate, I think this is now in her book.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Elevatorgate

Anyways, I don't think atheist and the new atheist movement was the wisest choice. It is a good way to get hated by everyone. I am looking for a religion. Maybe Pastafarianism? I dunno. I am tired of being unpopular.

I am trying to understand what is going on. Seems that Judaism as in the religion seems the most popular right now. Even atheists Jewish people are not that popular right now. Liberals are trying to protect racialized people from the evil atheists who are trying to commit ethnocide.

Are these valid criticisms of the new atheist movement? Is this why liberals seem to hate atheism so much? Or is it completely other reasons. For example is it the bad taste of communists regimes? What is going on? I want to understand. Thank you in advance.

anarchist100

Anyways, I don't think atheist and the new atheist movement was the wisest choice. It is a good way to get hated by everyone. I am looking for a religion. Maybe Pastafarianism? I dunno. I am tired of being unpopular.

So you'd abandon that which you find to be reasonable to fit in? Would you really surrender your ability to find the truth independently just so people will like you? Is being part of a group really worth your independent thought?

jack

Dreamer said:

Being an atheist I feel shunned by both conservatives and liberals.

Hello Dreamer:

Couple things.

1)  If you're gonna enter the realm of religion and politics, be prepared to be shunned..  The harder you argue your position, the harder you'll be shunned.. Wear it as a banner to be proud of - not something to apologize for.

2)  I'd be confused too if I had to decide whether I'm an atheist or a new atheist.  I have no idea what a new atheist is.  You either believe in God, or you don't..  It's like being pregnant.  You either are, or you aren't.  There ain't no in between.  If you're not SURE there's a God or not, you're clearly not an atheist..  Atheists aren't wishy washy about it - period, end of story.

3)  I couldn't answer the last two questions in your poll because they're straw men, in that they make assumptions that I don't make.

excon

PS:  There's something funky with your poll..  It asked whether liberals hate atheism, and I voted NO.  Your poll reported that I said yes..

jack

Dreamer said:

I am trying to understand what is going on. Seems that Judaism as in the religion seems the most popular right now. Even atheists Jewish people are not that popular right now. Liberals are trying to protect racialized people from the evil atheists who are trying to commit ethnocide.

Hello again, Dreamer:

I don't understand much of what you said.  But, let me clear some of your confusion up..  I'm probably responsible for much of it anyway.  It's real simple..  Jews HAVE a culture.  Christians do NOT..  A belief in God is a REQUIREMENT to BE a Christian, whereas a belief in God is NOT required to be a Jew..  In Jewish law, one doesn't have to BELIEVE like a Jew.  One has to ACT like a Jew. 

excon, Atheist, Warrior, and a Jew who loves his bagels

Dreamer

Argument Topic: Thank you all for the responses. A lot of my problem is how liberal leaders seem conflicted or half-atheists.

Here's a short and long quote:

"Even in states that allow only religious exemptions, however, parents are not above lying about their religion in order to obtain a vaccine exemption." David Gorski 2012

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/antivaccine-activists-attack-vaccine-mandates/

"

By oracknows on October 18, 2007.

Whatever criticisms I may have had for prominent atheists like Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris otherwise, one area that I'm totally down with both of them on is their criticism of the undue respect and consideration we as a society give to religious ideas. This consideration is rarely, if ever, based on the merit of the ideas, but rather solely because they are religious ideas. Many of these ideas, if they were not based on religion, wouldn't be given anywhere near the respect or deference that they are now. But, because they are based on a faith in the supernatural, for some reason we as a society tend to bend over backwards to show them "respect," whether they deserve it or not, and accommodate those who hold them. One area where this is especially true is in the area of vaccines and religious exemptions."

https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/10/18/using-religion-to-avoid-vaccination-revi

This is the type of ambivalent, conflicted, agnostic statements that annoy me. Liberals are quick to criticize particular part of religion but not go the extra steps and denounce religion as a whole, call their selves an atheist loudly, or call for an end to faith.

Maybe they are worried about popularity. Or they still believe somewhat. Another example is in Skeptics Guide to the Universe they show how photographs of "ghosts" are dis-proven and other supernatural events. Yet, seem unwilling to be atheists.

With religion the author says people can believe whatever they want as long as they don't talk or act on it. That the skeptics were unimpressed by religion. This seems overly politically correct in some obscure way I can't put my finger on. This beating around the bush vague attitude is frustrating.

They may be wanting to avoid stigma against atheism. I haven't done my research on discrimination against atheists. Maybe stigma is why atheists have more isolation and trouble finding jobs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists

In other words, you can promote evolution and prebunk creationism and call for the end to religious exemptions for vaccines. But, you can't just blanket criticize Christianity let alone a minoritized religion. My problem is that religion has too much respect and at the very least loudly proclaiming you are an atheist is a quick and easy way to reduce religion's privilege also known as undeserved respect.

Personally I find religion CREEPY. The entire blood and wafer drinking the blood of Christ for example is too similar to cannibalism. The idea that people believe in ghosts and other supernatural being makes me scared and pull away from them.

 I also can't stand when a theist goes on and on about their religion and it feels like trivial nonsense to me. Meanwhile the theists acts like they are giving me some great gift. I feel I have to let them drone on and can't say anything.

 I also see conspiracy thinking as creepy too. For example I mentioned covid-19 being downgraded from pandemic to endemic and some person talked about the lab leak hypothesis and how "China was trying to kill us all." I backed away slowly, smiled, and got far away from that person.

"But if secularists hoped that declining religiosity would make for more rational politics, drained of faith’s inflaming passions, they are likely disappointed. As Christianity’s hold, in particular, has weakened, ideological intensity and fragmentation have risen."  Shadi Hamid

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/04/america-politics-religion/618072/

   Finally, let's talk about tactics and effective messaging. The new atheist movement has failed and succeeded. Now we can talk about religion but its not like 90% of the world is atheists. Politics has replaced religion and if anything tribalism has increased in the USA.

  "Conclusions: Current public health communications about vaccines may not be effective. For some parents, they may actually increase misperceptions or reduce vaccination intention. Attempts to increase concerns about communicable diseases or correct false claims about vaccines may be especially likely to be counterproductive. More study of pro-vaccine messaging is needed."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24590751/

   Note, the above paragraph could be repeated for many topics. For example very similar statements are made about debunking climate change deniers. What does this all mean? This means I am an atheist and no I am not one of those belief in belief atheists.

 Instead, I have a disbelief in the new atheist movement and its leaders. That the current methods to promote logic, science, atheism and debunk religion are ineffective and worse counter-productive and often bigoted. We need to study and evaluate effective spreading of atheism. I know this is long, but I think better to get out all my thoughts in one long post than segment into several small.