Is abortion illegal?

Fredsnephew

@iamzombie

Illegality is an ideological principle that varies depending upon a human organisms place of residence.

Therein abortion is simply a medical or surgical solution to a problem...Or not as the case maybe.

Universally, there is no greater authority available to make such judgements.

Hypothetical judges are what they are.

And abortion tourism is a business opportunity.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@iamzombie ; Every child possess a "right to life" from the moment of conception as life begins at conception and to take that life void due process is murder and anyone who participates in that murder in any manner will pay an enteral price for their sin against the most innocent.

iamzombie

@Fredsnephew I have no idea what you said. 

iamzombie

@RickeyHoltsclaw An unborn human is a fetus, not a child. Two completely different things. You are overly emotional and have serious control issues. Unless you can give me a solid reason to believe abortion is immoral to prove that my belief (that abortion was given to us to have the power to show mercy considering not a single person remembers being in the womb) is wrong. Literally nobody screamed it was murder when people were given access to assisted suicide. Nor do I see as many people standing up for those who are literally on death row right now. That's because murder isn't just about taking someone's life. It's about intent too and women who get abortions aren't doing it because they're possessed. I honestly don't understand how you don't see throwing a child into domestic violence and expecting them to not end up lost and confused in life with no loving parents to guide them as cold-hearted, but I digress. 

If you want to get technical, life actually began long before humans started having babies. I must ask, do you believe in exceptions in terms of abortion? Because who are YOU to decide when life is valuable and when it isn't?? At the end of the day, you really have to facts to prove the morality of abortion and you're just forcing your beliefs on people.

I've seen the way you talk to people on here and it's like you believe anyone who doesn't just blindly agree with you needs to be exorcised. I think you wouldn't be so uptight if you actually looked at those who disagree with you as humans who were also once children who also want the best for everyone. 

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hmmmmmm.

@iamzombie

I answered your question.

Whereas Rickey didn't 

All that Rickey gave you was a pat pro-life response with some accompanying religious baloney. 


Nonetheless, let me rephrase in simple terms for you.

Something is only illegal if is deemed to be by a regional or national authority.


Rickey was told that there is a magic bloke who has a greater authority.

But this is not verifiable.


OK?

iamzombie

@Fredsnephew Well I consider something legal if it's moral. So do you believe it to be moral or not?

Barnardot

@iamzombie ;@Fredsnephew Well I consider something legal if it's moral. So do you believe it to be moral or not?

I think that with out a doubt there is no doubt that your totally right there and the 2 words are interchangeable really.

Our laws are based on society morals at the time and in the context of our society.

The problem with Goddists is that they get there morals that were a round more than 2 thousand years ago when societies were barbaric and there treatment of each other was obseen by today's standards.

They have got to stop getting there morals from that disgusting book and start living in the now and go with the rest of society instead of being social out casts.

Joeseph

@iamzombie

***Well I consider something legal if it's moral. ***

How do you personally reach moral decisions?

Fredsnephew

@iamzombie @Barnardot

For sure, legality and morality are two separate but sometimes relative concepts.

Though the question was "is abortion legal".

And within the context of the question, I replied appropriately.


So your new question "is abortion moral".

Well, as I previously stated, abortion is a medical or surgical solution to a problem.

For some a moral dilemma, for some not.

(People are typically picky about how they apply their moral appreciation of other living organisms.)


So, is there a greater authority that has the right to judge human behaviour. (Let's call it GOD).

There might be I suppose.

But I don't have a contact number.


At a pragmatic personal level, I am comfortable with the idea of the procedure if carried out within a specific timeframe relative to the development of the cellular mass.

Though I do tend to be a pragmatist, rather than an emotional thinker.

Hence I do not employ misrepresentative emotional rhetoric such as "killing babies".

iamzombie

@Barnardot It's also becoming extremely clear in America how religion has historically been used to control and mislead innocent people before America even existed and it's willful ignorance at this point to not research the facts. I honestly believe that anyone who wants to assign a specific religion or belief to America to impose on others in 2024, specifically Christianity as it's relevant, then they really didn't pay attention in American history class and don't deserve to be an American. 

iamzombie

@Joeseph I make moral decisions based on what is in the highest good for all. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@iamzombie ; You should make "moral decisions" referencing what is good and right and sustainable and lawful and honorable and dignified...not what the majority thinks.

iamzombie

@Fredsnephew So then are you saying you're pro-choice? Lol

RickeyHoltsclaw

@iamzombie ;  What is the difference between a child that is unborn and one that is born...how can you say that the child in the womb is absent life simply because they're in the process of maturation, a maturation that continues until death?

You are a fool of the Devil and the demonic LEFT in this Nation when you utter such stup-idity void wisdom, logic, reason. Your "science" confirms that life begins at conception and you ARE A MURDERER for advocating otherwise.

Dr. Micheline Mathews-Roth of the Harvard Medical School said, "It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception." Or as geneticist Dr. Jerome Lejune said, "To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion. Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception."

The pro-choice definition of fetal viability is arbitrary and indeterminate. The scientific definition of the beginning of human life is not. It is at conception. https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/readers/2014/10/06/letter-pro-life/16791803/

just_sayin

@iamzombie
An unborn human is a fetus, not a child. Two completely different things. 

A fetus is a specific stage of human development.  The term child is a general term that applies to the time in the womb.  Hence a mother can say she is with child and people knows what she means.  The terms can both be used iwhile the child is in the fetus stage.  95 percent of biologists say human life begins at conception.

Abortion is the intentional killing of an innocent human life.  Age, size, development, or location do not alter ones humaness.

iamzombie

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Stop projecting, Rickey. Not everyone follows the crowd just because you do. Acting as if "lawful" is synonymous with all of those other adjectives tells me everything I need to know. You're as blind as the next solider and one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever met. Forcing your subjective, personal beliefs on people is not good, right, lawful, honorable, dignified, and certainly not sustainable. Actually, it's downright anti-American and totalitarian. It's going to really suck for you when you realize that most Americans really aren't interested in transforming a free country into another monarch. It was founded for freedom and safety for a reason. Go to Europe if you want to live in a Christain nationalist country. 

Joeseph

@iamzombie

I make moral decisions based on what is in the highest good for all. 


Highest good being what you deem the highest good for all , right?

iamzombie

@RickeyHoltsclaw

You could easily spot this difference by looking up the definitions. A fetus is in the womb and a child is not. There is really no such thing as an unborn child. However, there is such thing as an unborn fetus. 

I'm fully aware that a fetus is life, Your Highness. So is that dying plant you ignored or that ant you stepped on. Death is a natural occurrence in life and your attempt to paint it as otherwise is only a reflection of your own short-sidedness and inability to cope. The fact that you don't advocate for assisted suicide or death row proves my point. 

Just to put it out there, I believe aborting a fetus saves a soul from suffering and sends it back to where it came from for it to be repurposed. I believe in reincarnation and that life is always an option. Abortions actually do have spiritual meaning for some people. Your ignorance shows, . 

iamzombie

@just_sayin There you go again telling me the obvious like you're God... Yes, I'm aware that there are many people who wrongfully call a fetus a child. So what? I don't see it any different than extreme Democrats being unable to tell the difference between a man and a woman. Who cares what scientists say at this point? Lol science doesn't even have anything to do with beliefs any way. When life starts scientifically and when it starts spiritually are two completely different things. 

iamzombie

@Joeseph No? Objective morality is real and subjective morality is part of that. 

Joeseph

@iamzombie



OK so it's " real" in what way is it real?

iamzombie

@Joeseph

What's with the quotations? If you have doubts, just say so. 

Joeseph

@iamzombie ;

What's with the quotations? If you have doubts, just say so. 


But I did say so , I asked you a question do you want me to ask it again?

iamzombie

@Joeseph

No, you didn't say so. I'm not interested in entertaining your disrespectful attitude. 

Factfinder

iamzombie said:

@Joeseph

No, you didn't say so. I'm not interested in entertaining your disrespectful attitude. 

So you can't answer @Joeseph's question? I was looking forward to your answer.

Joeseph

@iamzombie

No, you didn't say so.

I did in my first response I asked you a question the question mark denoted that.


 I'm not interested in entertaining your disrespectful attitude. 

So it's disrespectful to ask you a question on a debate site , seriously?  In future think before you type as you may be asked to defend what you say.

Now run along pout and sulk you big girl 

Barnardot

@just_sayin @iamzombie ;e.  95 percent of biologists say human life begins at conception.

So what spam website did you go to this time to get that lieing statistic. Proberly the same religious one that says abortion is murder and sadistically likes to insult and offend vulnerable descent women who have to make big personal decisions.

Joeseph

@Factfinder


I was also looking forward to a decent argument , what a drama queen this guy/ girl/ it's  is ....probably bursts into tears if people don't use his ( oops) hers/ it's  preffered pronouns......

Barnardot

@iamzombie ;@Joeseph 

No, you didn't say so. I'm not interested in entertaining your disrespectful attitude.

Well if you don’t want to put on a show about his attitude why don’t you argue about it? Jesus this is a debate site not a blooding opera house.

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin @iamzombie ;e.  95 percent of biologists say human life begins at conception.

So what spam website did you go to this time to get that lieing statistic. Proberly the same religious one that says abortion is murder and sadistically likes to insult and offend vulnerable descent women who have to make big personal decisions.

The Scientific Consensus on When a Human's Life Begins

Biologists from 1,058 academic institutions around the world assessed survey items on when a human's life begins and, overall, 96% (5337 out of 5577) affirmed the fertilization view. 

Biologists' Consensus on 'When Life Begins'

Overall, 95% of all biologists affirmed the biological view that a human's life begins at fertilization (5212 out of 5502). 

Supreme Court Brief

Barnardot

@just_sayin @iamzombie @Factfinder @Joseph Overall, 95% of all biologists affirmed the biological view that a human's life begins at fertilization (5212 out of 5502). 

And as usual you like leaving relevant info out.

The article was about a group of 5502 biologists "who assessed statements representing the biological view ‘a human’s life begins at fertilization". And hay hello, did we miss the part about 92 to 97% of just those biologists were very pro life? And what biologists were they? They raise seedlings in a nursery or make washing powder or what? And what were the three statements that they affirmed? They don't say.

So there you go again. You quoted an article that is totally nonsense and makes no conclusions in the true sents of the word.

And in any case so effing what about your claim? Who says that a bunch of largely pro life tomato growers determines when human life begins. You thats who. Which is ludecrass.

What determines the start of human life and what is and what is not murder is determined by many open enquiries, hearings from experts in many field including medical, legal, political, ethical, religious and community leaders. The process is long and thorough and this process has determined that it is wrong to call the termination of a fetus under 13 weaks as murder.

Weather you like it or not. And obviously you dont but your view is extreme and has nothing to do with what descent main stream society has determined. 

What constitutes a human life and murder is not determined by a biased doctored paper reporting one sided undetermined statements from a bunch of pro life tomato growers.

iamzombie

@Factfinder And? I don't have to answer to you lmao

Factfinder

@Barnardot

I've determined just lyin ain't worth debating as if his god truly exist, it would send him to hell for sure because it would know he mocks and blasphemes its name.

iamzombie

@Joeseph It's disrespectful to treat me like I'm stu.pid? Your response literally proves my point. Stop projecting. Not everyone loses sleep at night obsessing over what people think of them like you do. 

Barnardot

@iamzombie ;@Factfinder And? I don't have to answer to you lmao

No body has to answer to any body so effing what?

The facts are that he asked you a question and you could or would not answer. The facts speak for them selves.

iamzombie

@Joeseph Could you be any more ignorant and self-absorbed? Transgenderism is a mental illness. Tell me something I don't know. 

Factfinder

iamzombie said:

@Factfinder And? I don't have to answer to you lmao

Sure don't. Have a good one.

iamzombie

@just_sayin ;

When life starts scientifically and when it starts spiritually are two completely different things. 

Barnardot

@iamzombie ;Could you be any more ignorant and self-absorbed? Transgenderism is a mental illness. Tell me something I don't know. 

Looked at your self in the mirror lately?

Joeseph

@iamzombie

***@Joeseph It's disrespectful to treat me like I'm stu.pid? Your response literally proves my point. Stop projecting. Not everyone loses sleep at night obsessing over what people think of them like you do***


You're behaving like a pouting g drams queen all because you cannot answer a question.

Also I'm not projecting I describing the way you're behaving.

But the only one obsessing here is you all I did was ask.a question and youre flying into a hissy fit over being disrespected.

You will probably run upstairs now throw yourself on thr bed and  burst out crying

Joeseph

@iamzombie

***Could you be any more ignorant and self-absorbed? Transgenderism is a mental illness. Tell me something I don't know***

You mean could I be like you?.No 

Come on you're kicking up a storm sbout transgenders , sort of gives away the fact that you're hiding something .......so what's your preffered pronouns just in case I accidentally disrespect you again .....don't want you bursting into floods of tears do we.......

Factfinder

Joeseph said:

@iamzombie

***@Joeseph It's disrespectful to treat me like I'm stu.pid? Your response literally proves my point. Stop projecting. Not everyone loses sleep at night obsessing over what people think of them like you do***


You're behaving like a pouting g drams queen all because you cannot answer a question.

Also I'm not projecting I describing the way you're behaving.

But the only one obsessing here is you all I did was ask.a question and youre flying into a hissy fit over being disrespected.

You will probably run upstairs now throw yourself on thr bed and  upstairs out crying

Haha, I think that's half the people on this site.

Joeseph

@Factfinder

I had a good laugh at the guy/ girl /it flying into a rage because I dared question him / her / it ........

I'm trying hare not to disrespect him,/ her/ it don't want to be accused of misgendering .....

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

@iamzombie

Like most people, I am picky.

So I am both pro-life and pro-choice, depending upon circumstance.

So for example,

I will eat beef, but not eat my dog.

Joeseph

@iamzombie


You seem to be in a constant rage I'm sorry if I misgendered you OK?  Can we now move on?

So can you introduce yourself and tell us your preffered pronouns and maybe a little about your journey and struggle so far ....,we could finish with a group hug if you want?

MayCaesar

I agree that abortion should be fully legal, at any stage - but your argument is pretty bad. It is not only American citizens who have rights. American citizens have certain privileges that non-citizens do not, but basic human rights are universal according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the UN of which the US is a member. I am not an American citizen, yet were someone to kill me on the US territory, they would be prosecuted with the same severity as if they had killed an American citizen instead. Unless you believe that this should work differently as well?

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin @iamzombie @Factfinder @Joseph Overall, 95% of all biologists affirmed the biological view that a human's life begins at fertilization (5212 out of 5502). 

And as usual you like leaving relevant info out.

The article was about a group of 5502 biologists "who assessed statements representing the biological view ‘a human’s life begins at fertilization". And hay hello, did we miss the part about 92 to 97% of just those biologists were very pro life? And what biologists were they? They raise seedlings in a nursery or make washing powder or what? And what were the three statements that they affirmed? They don't say.

So there you go again. You quoted an article that is totally nonsense and makes no conclusions in the true sents of the word.

And in any case so effing what about your claim? Who says that a bunch of largely pro life tomato growers determines when human life begins. You thats who. Which is ludecrass.

What determines the start of human life and what is and what is not murder is determined by many open enquiries, hearings from experts in many field including medical, legal, political, ethical, religious and community leaders. The process is long and thorough and this process has determined that it is wrong to call the termination of a fetus under 13 weaks as murder.

Weather you like it or not. And obviously you dont but your view is extreme and has nothing to do with what descent main stream society has determined. 

What constitutes a human life and murder is not determined by a biased doctored paper reporting one sided undetermined statements from a bunch of pro life tomato growers.

Bernie, the issue of when human life begins is something that biologists have the expertise to speak to and 95% say it is conception.  Their political positions are irrelevant as is their favorite TV show.  Your desperation is showing.

Barnardot

@just_sayin ;Bernie, the issue of when human life begins is something that biologists have the expertise to speak to and 95% say it is conception.

And I just finished explaining to you why this is not so. Do you ever listen to a single thing any body else says to you other than that imaginary nit that sits on your shoulder?

Barnardot

@Fredsnephew ;So I am both pro-life and pro-choice, depending upon circumstance.

I see where your coming from there all though I think that pro choice does cover pro life. But it makes sents that we should look at every case on its merits and not just taking a stand just because your on the left or right or Goddist and Atheist.I am pro choice but that I still would be pro life for as far as I possibly could. 

Unfortunately I think there are some people who think of life as being suitable or disposable to suit their own needs and to me that is totally heartless and gives pro choice a bad name.

iamzombie

@Joeseph Yet you'll never stop to think that getting disrespectful for no real reason is literally throwing a hissy fit, will you? Lol just because you lack self-respect, doesn't mean everyone else should. You are clearly a pro at playing victim, therefore it is completely useless to "debate" with you moving forward. Take care.