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should vaccines be given to children

Debate Information

I am very curious to see what people say about this.
Max_Air29ErfisflatEvidence
  1. Live Poll

    should vaccines be given to children

    10 votes
    1. yes
      90.00%
    2. no
      10.00%
«1



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  • Max_Air29Max_Air29 84 Pts   -  
    Yes, they can help fight diseases, etc.
  • @Max_Air29 yeah, i completely agree. 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    I think it should be optional. 
    EvidenceDrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    The idea that my kid would give yours some sort of disease if I don't subject them to shots and your kids did get the shot is like claiming that you'll get soaked if you go out in a rain shower with a raincoat on. If your kids are supposedly immune, what does it matter if my kids is in danger of contracting some disease?
    EvidenceDrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • @Erfisflat I think it should be a parental decision too, however not taking the vaccine drastically increases the chances of contracting diseases  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    EvidenceDrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • @Erfisflat they'll contract it from the environment. For example, teatnus can be contracted from soil, dust, and manure
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    @Erfisflat they'll contract it from the environment. For example, teatnus can be contracted from soil, dust, and manure
    Tetanus is something that isn't contagious, and is in most cases easily preventable, as well as manageable and resolves on its own.

    Studies in the UK show that the contraction of tetanus has steadily declined for the first 60 years prior to routine vaccination being administered. Likely the drastic drop in contagion is due to better hygiene and competent wound cleaning. The US version of this graph lips off the dates before this point, making it seem more drastic.


    http://www.patient.co.uk/health/tetanus-immunisation

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/tetanus.html

    The effectiveness is not foolproof against tetanus, as this study shows.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1565228

    Where 3 cases of severe tetanus was contracted and one death resulted despite high levels of the serum in their system. Though these numbers sampling are small, it doesn't earn any vote of confidence from me for the vaccine.

    There are even studies that show that populations of unvaccinated people have high levels of anti-toxin granting them natural immunity without ever having a single dose of medication or getting tetanus by gradually and unintentionally ingesting the tentanus bacteria in day-to-day living.

    https://www.mommypotamus.com/should-vaccines-be-mandatory/

    In addition to the anti-toxin, a tetanus vaccine contains formaldehyde (preservative), thimerosal (antiseptic and antifungal containing mercury), aluminum phosphate (adjuvant), dibasic sodium phosphate (acidic medium), and sodium phosphate monobasic (fungicidal). 

    https://www.livestrong.com/article/179184-what-are-the-ingredients-in-the-tetanus-shot/

    I shouldn't have to explain the dangers of ingesting formaldehyde, mercury and aluminum. 

    I've got a few more reasons why I think at the very least it should be optional, but I'll leave it at that for now.
    Evidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • FascismFascism 344 Pts   -  
    There are some vaccinations which should be required for all. This situation would arise whenever many lives are threatened. Other vaccinations should be optional. 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Fascism said:
    There are some vaccinations which should be required for all. This situation would arise whenever many lives are threatened. Other vaccinations should be optional. 
    Such as?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is no longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    MissDMeanor
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    This logic only applies when a certain disease has been eradicated.
    MissDMeanorErfisflat
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    They wouldn't, but I fail to see how this proves that vaccinations shouldn't be mandatory.
    This is a highly idealized scenario.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    They wouldn't, but I fail to see how this proves that vaccinations shouldn't be mandatory.
    This is a highly idealized scenario.

    Your quote was.

    "Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus." -U

    "How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no.."- me

    "They wouldn't" - u


    If my kid can't get the virus from your vaccinated kid, and your kid shouldn't be abe to contract the disease from my unvaccinated kid, why should it be mandatory the he be subject to ingest things that may harm him? Shouldn't that be a matter of personal or parental choice.

    Can I get an example of a vaccine that should be mandatory. 


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @harrison_duncan
    If everyone but my kid is vaccinated,  who would they contract it from?
    Viruses can mutate. If a virus mutates enough, then the vaccine with the original strain could be rendered useless against the virus.
    (I.e., a single person could be ground zero for a strain of virus that is not longer preventable. This would infect everyone - even the people with the old vaccines.)
    So, those vaccines we give our children, by your logic, are pretty much useless against mutated viruses.
    Yes, that is why it's so vital that all children get vaccinated.
    Vaccinated with the useless vaccinations? No thank you.
    The vaccinations wouldn't be useless until a certain amount of mutations occur in the virus.
    Vaccinations prevent these mutations from occuring by refusing the virus a place to thrive.

    Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus.
    How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?
    They wouldn't, but I fail to see how this proves that vaccinations shouldn't be mandatory.
    This is a highly idealized scenario.

    Your quote was.

    "Ergo, vaccinations are rendered useless when people don't vaccinate and become infected with the virus." -U

    "How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no.."- me

    "They wouldn't" - u


    If my kid can't get the virus from your vaccinated kid, and your kid shouldn't be abe to contract the disease from my unvaccinated kid, why should it be mandatory the he be subject to ingest things that may harm him? Shouldn't that be a matter of personal or parental choice.

    Can I get an example of a vaccine that should be mandatory. 


    That cut off with your quote is slightly misleading. Your full quote was, "How would one get infected with a virus, mutated or no, if they don't come in contact with an unvaccinated host?"

    Your entire hypothetical situation is highly idealized. Your assuming that a vaccinated kid would never come in contact with a kid who wasn't vaccinated. This one highly idealized situation should not be the basis of your entire argument because it is completely possible that a kid who was not vaccinated could come in contact with one who has.

    "Can I get an example of a vaccine that should be mandatory. "
    Vaccines that should be mandatory should vaccinate againsts diseases that fit the two criteria:
    1.) Cause an immesurable amount of displeasure or death, and
    2.) the disease has not yet been erradicated.

    "... he be subject to ingest things that may harm him?"
    What makes you think vaccines would harm you?

    Another Argument:
    When you fail to get your kid vaccinated, you submit him to unecessary danger and potential harm. This is endangering your child and should be made illegal.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • FascismFascism 344 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat If we ever found a vaccination for the AIDS virus which we probably won't then it should be required for everyone. If we ever found a vaccination for the Ebola virus, it shouldn't be required. It doesn't really affect society, but if someone really wants it, who am I to stop them? 
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    The site glitched.

    The argument in this post was already made.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • @Fascism I think an Ebola vaccine would be much needed in Africa
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    I'm not assuming that, reread my argument. You've completely misinterpreted my argument. My scenario is that my kid unvaxxed and your kid vaxxed go to class together. My kid can't catch the virus from your kid and your kid can't catch anything from my kid. 

    If vaccines were administered routinely for a certain virus for three generations, the virus should be either eradicated, isolated, or extremely unlikely to be contracted, if vaccines are to be considered effective at all.

    @DrCereal
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    I'm not assuming that, reread my argument. You've completely misinterpreted my argument. My scenario is that my kid unvaxxed and your kid vaxxed go to class together. My kid can't catch the virus from your kid and your kid can't catch anything from my kid. 

    If vaccines were administered routinely for a certain virus for three generations, the virus should be either eradicated, isolated, or extremely unlikely to be contracted, if vaccines are to be considered effective at all.

    @DrCereal
    You've then misinterpreted my argument. I was saying it was impossible for a vaccinated kid to contract the virus if they never came into contact with an unvaccinated kid. I never conceded what you just said so your argument is complete bunk. (Since your argument was based off of my answer to your hypothetical question, I'm not misinterpreting anything.)
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    @Fascism I think an Ebola vaccine would be much needed in Africa

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    I'm not assuming that, reread my argument. You've completely misinterpreted my argument. My scenario is that my kid unvaxxed and your kid vaxxed go to class together. My kid can't catch the virus from your kid and your kid can't catch anything from my kid. 

    If vaccines were administered routinely for a certain virus for three generations, the virus should be either eradicated, isolated, or extremely unlikely to be contracted, if vaccines are to be considered effective at all.

    @DrCereal
    You've then misinterpreted my argument. I was saying it was impossible for a vaccinated kid to contract the virus if they never came into contact with an unvaccinated kid. I never conceded what you just said so your argument is complete bunk. (Since your argument was based off of my answer to your hypothetical question, I'm not misinterpreting anything.)
    I agree "it is impossible for a vaccinated kid to contract the virus if they never came into contact with an unvaccinated kid"

    Do you also agree that it would be impossible for a vaxxed kid to contract a virus from a nonvaxxed kid? (If vaccines are to be considered effective?)


    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Medical ethics are clear: No one should be forced to undergo a medical treatment without informed consent and without their agreement to the treatment. We condemn the forced sterilization of the ’20s and ’30s, the Tuskegee medical experiments infecting black inmates and the Nazi medicine that included involuntary “Euthanasia,” experimentation and sterilization. How can we force vaccination without consent? Vaccination is a medical treatment with risks including death. It is totally antithetical to all ethics in medicine to mandate that risk to others.

    MissDMeanorDrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • MissDMeanorMissDMeanor 100 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat The problem with the consent argument is that we are talking about children who do not know better. If a kid wants to have sexual intercourse with anyone, that should not be allowed. If the kid's parents allow the kid to have sexual intercourse with someone, that is still not allowed. There laws are put into place because children do not know what is good for them, the same logic can be applied to vaccines.

    There have been no studies that show that vaccines are bad for children, and multiple that demonstrate the positive benefits of it(1). The child might be able to contract a disease and be put at risk because he/she was not vaccinated. The problem here is not disease spread - it is the safety of a child. A nonvaxxed kid could get a disease from another nonvaxxed kid putting both at physical risk. The government has to step in if the parent is so incompetent as to willingly put their kids at risk, I would go as far as to argue that could be considered neglect.

    Of course if you are 18 and are a legal adult, I could not care less if you got a vaccine or not. I am a conservative and I believe government should stay out of health, but if we are talking about the safety of children, yes there should be regulations.

    1.here you may find a list of studies affirming my claim: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/immunizations/Pages/Vaccine-Studies-Examine-the-Evidence.aspx
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    "A nonvaxxed kid could get a disease from another nonvaxxed kid putting both at physical risk."

    If this were to happen, this would prove that the vaccine was inneficient, and with the health risks involved, I'd opt out anyway I could.
    MissDMeanor
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • MissDMeanorMissDMeanor 100 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat Could you please elaborate on how my statement would prove that vaccine does not work? The point of a vaccine is not to eradicate an illness, though that may be an ultimate outcome. The point is to defend the children in question from unnecessary physical harm. If both of those kids were vaxxed then both would be safe, but instead both have incompetent family members, and both are put at risk.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat Could you please elaborate on how my statement would prove that vaccine does not work? The point of a vaccine is not to eradicate an illness, though that may be an ultimate outcome. The point is to defend the children in question from unnecessary physical harm. If both of those kids were vaxxed then both would be safe, but instead both have incompetent family members, and both are put at risk.
    If a vaccinated child is infected with a virus they were vaccinated for at all, what would be the point of subjecting the kid to mercury, aluminum and formaldehyde poisoning?
    MissDMeanor
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    You can say it's incompetent, but I could say the same for the vaccinated parent for risking their child's health and lives for something that ultimately proves to be useless.
    MissDMeanorDrCerealharrison_duncan
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • MissDMeanorMissDMeanor 100 Pts   -  
    I still don't understand where I said a vaxxed kid could get a illness he was vaxxed for. 

    "A nonvaxxed kid could get a disease from another nonvaxxed kid putting both at physical risk."
    I am talking about two unvaxxed kids, I don't even mention a vaxxed kid in this statement. Both unvaxxed kids are at risk, I do not understand how I am unclear in this statement.

    "If both of those kids were vaxxed then both would be safe"
    Here I am saying the vaccines are keeping the kids safe, because that is what studies show, I linked a list of multiple. 

    I am either missing something, or that was a very poor strawman.
    DrCereal
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    I'm not assuming that, reread my argument. You've completely misinterpreted my argument. My scenario is that my kid unvaxxed and your kid vaxxed go to class together. My kid can't catch the virus from your kid and your kid can't catch anything from my kid. 

    If vaccines were administered routinely for a certain virus for three generations, the virus should be either eradicated, isolated, or extremely unlikely to be contracted, if vaccines are to be considered effective at all.

    @DrCereal
    You've then misinterpreted my argument. I was saying it was impossible for a vaccinated kid to contract the virus if they never came into contact with an unvaccinated kid. I never conceded what you just said so your argument is complete bunk. (Since your argument was based off of my answer to your hypothetical question, I'm not misinterpreting anything.)
    I agree "it is impossible for a vaccinated kid to contract the virus if they never came into contact with an unvaccinated kid"

    Do you also agree that it would be impossible for a vaxxed kid to contract a virus from a nonvaxxed kid? (If vaccines are to be considered effective?)


    No, it wouldn't be impossible. As I said in my post about virus mutations, a different strain of a virus could render a vaccine useless. The only way to prevent a new strain from mutating is by vaccinating all kids and preventing the disease from spreading in the first place.
    MissDMeanorErfisflat
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • @Erfisflat you only need a small population of unvaxed kids for the virus to mutate
    DrCereal
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    @Erfisflat you only need a small population of unvaxed kids for the virus to mutate

    How much of the population do you think is unvaxxed?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    State's range from 88% to 99.7% vaccinated. So again I ask, where are all these unvaccinated people dying from the measles or smallpox? Since 2005 (and even before that), there have been no deaths in the U.S. from measles, but there have been 86 deaths from MMR vaccine – 68 of them in children under 3 years old. And there were nearly 2,000 disabled, per the VAERS data.

    http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Currently, there is no evidence of naturally occurring smallpox transmission anywhere in the world. Although a worldwide immunization program eradicated smallpox disease decades ago, small quantities of smallpoxvirus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia.

    Smallpox has been eradicated, therefore it should be an optional vaccine, especially considering the dangers.



    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/smallpox
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Currently, there is no evidence of naturally occurring smallpox transmission anywhere in the world. Although a worldwide immunization program eradicated smallpox disease decades ago, small quantities of smallpoxvirus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia.

    Smallpox has been eradicated, therefore it should be an optional vaccine, especially considering the dangers.



    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/smallpox
    I specifically have not claimed it should be necessary.

    And how was my post a fallacy? Please, elaborate.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Currently, there is no evidence of naturally occurring smallpox transmission anywhere in the world. Although a worldwide immunization program eradicated smallpox disease decades ago, small quantities of smallpoxvirus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia.

    Smallpox has been eradicated, therefore it should be an optional vaccine, especially considering the dangers.



    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/smallpox
    I specifically have not claimed it should be necessary.

    And how was my post a fallacy? Please, elaborate.
    I asked which you thought should be mandatory, and you've so far dodged that question. And as soon as you explain why you are flagging nearly all my arguments as fallacies, I'll respond in kind.
    DrCereal
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    @Erfisflat you only need a small population of unvaxed kids for the virus to mutate

    How much of the population do you think is unvaxxed?
    He meant unvaxed kids who contracted the virus.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    Currently, there is no evidence of naturally occurring smallpox transmission anywhere in the world. Although a worldwide immunization program eradicated smallpox disease decades ago, small quantities of smallpoxvirus officially still exist in two research laboratories in Atlanta, Georgia, and in Russia.

    Smallpox has been eradicated, therefore it should be an optional vaccine, especially considering the dangers.



    https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/smallpox
    I specifically have not claimed it should be necessary.

    And how was my post a fallacy? Please, elaborate.
    I asked which you thought should be mandatory, and you've so far dodged that question. And as soon as you explain why you are flagging nearly all my arguments as fallacies, I'll respond in kind.
    My flagging (correctly or not) does not influence the validity of my argument.
    You're being petty.

    I "haven't provided an answer to a question" so my post is fallacious? That's a non sequitur.
    Also, I did answer your question. Did you happen to miss it?
    Erfisflat
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @Erfisflat you only need a small population of unvaxed kids for the virus to mutate

    How much of the population do you think is unvaxxed?
    He meant unvaxed kids who contracted the virus.
    How much of the population is that? I have shown already that these numbers are nil.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    DrCereal said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @Erfisflat you only need a small population of unvaxed kids for the virus to mutate

    How much of the population do you think is unvaxxed?
    He meant unvaxed kids who contracted the virus.
    How much of the population is that? I have shown already that these numbers are nil.
    Your argument is still conditional. You're (if I gave numbers that satisify your argument) assuming that the unvaccinated population will remain steady.
    If a group of people stopped vaccinating their children, then the population of unvaccinated children would increase. Demographics are not static.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    My flagging (correctly or not) does not influence the validity of my argument.
    You're being petty.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    I did not imply that your post is fallacious since you haven't responded to my question
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    My flagging (correctly or not) does not influence the validity of my argument.
    You're being petty.
    I don't know what you mean by this. I haven't your posts as fallacious simply because of your flagging.
    I have marked your posts fallacious because they have invalid reasoning.

    "I did not imply that your post is fallacious since you haven't responded to my question "
    Ah, I'm sorry. I misread your original post (Formatting helps prevent misinterpretation.), but this still doesn't invalidate the first part of my post.
    Marking my posts as fallacious simply because I marked yours without explanation is petty.
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Thank you for removing the unwarranted flags
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    Thank you for removing the unwarranted flags
    No problem.

    Can you please tell me why the first post you as fallacious is so?
    Bis das, si cito das.
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