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Why Did God Create Wars?

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Whilst many people may say that it was in order to teach Americans about geography we cannot overlook the fact that the vast majority of wars have been between religious factions.
Okay, so man has sinned and uses his free will to squabble with others who don't share the same form of worship but should we not hold God responsible for fighting over him in the first place? 
TreeMan



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  • wokwok 12 Pts   -  
    God never create war..... destruction, damage, and war is created by human hands.
    BlastcatTreeManjimmy3954
  • iamathiestiamathiest 18 Pts   -  
    I do not believe in god, but I will say that war was developed by humans. It is human history and we have always had the mindset that violence solves problems. Not everyone, but when you look back in time, violence was survival.
    Blastcat
  • JeanJean 79 Pts   -  
    I do not believe in god, but I will say that war was developed by humans. It is human history and we have always had the mindset that violence solves problems. Not everyone, but when you look back in time, violence was survival.
    I don't know what you mean by your statement that "violence was survival". Many leaders have been a force of evil in the world. The common man had little or no choice when it came to war. A good example is the Thirty Years War started by the Pope against Protestants. Eventually after all the warring with more than 8 million casualties resulting from military battles as well as from the famine and disease caused by the conflict, the Leaders came to realize that war would not keep Europe Catholic and so the end of the war accepted that northern Europe should be permitted to be Protestant if that is what the Leaders there so wished. Sense prevailed with the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648. The war had been senseless and all in the name of God.
    TreeMan
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @wok
    God never create war..... destruction, damage, and war is created by human hands.

    Not according to the Bible, which is what I based my argument upon.

    TreeManBlastcat
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @iamathiest
    I do not believe in god, but I will say that war was developed by humans.

    Yes it was however I make the point that it is God (or rather the fervent belief in God) that pushes those who are hell-bent on violence, to go further "in the name of God".

    BlastcatTreeMan
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @iamathiest
    I do not believe in god, but I will say that war was developed by humans.

    Yes it was however I make the point that it is God (or rather the fervent belief in God) that pushes those who are hell-bent on violence, to go further "in the name of God".

    So then, for example if there is a tribe of religious people minding their own business, and another tribe comes along to pillage and rape them, it is possible for the tribe that is being persecuted to be so hell-bent on revenge that they would go so far as to actually win the war "in the name of God"?

    That sounds like a good thing to me.
    BlastcatTreeMan
  • BlastcatBlastcat 261 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: The argument assumes the god of the Bible is real

    I do not believe in god, but I will say that war was developed by humans. It is human history and we have always had the mindset that violence solves problems. Not everyone, but when you look back in time, violence was survival.

    Im an atheist too. I don't believe in any god.
    But if I were a CHRISTIAN.. I would believe that god has a plan. And I would be very confused.
    I left the faith because of the cognitive dissonance that it caused.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason
    So then, for example if there is a tribe of religious people minding their own business, and another tribe comes along to pillage and rape them, it is possible for the tribe that is being persecuted to be so hell-bent on revenge that they would go so far as to actually win the war "in the name of God"?

    Yes, and also bearing in mind that the aggressors would no doubt be motivated by God. There are more than enough examples of that happening constantly on the African continent of Christian factions attacking Muslim villages and (sometimes) vice versa, motivated purely by the desire to prove who has the best imaginary friend.

    TreeMan
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    So then, for example if there is a tribe of religious people minding their own business, and another tribe comes along to pillage and rape them, it is possible for the tribe that is being persecuted to be so hell-bent on revenge that they would go so far as to actually win the war "in the name of God"?

    Yes, and also bearing in mind that the aggressors would no doubt be motivated by God. There are more than enough examples of that happening constantly on the African continent of Christian factions attacking Muslim villages and (sometimes) vice versa, motivated purely by the desire to prove who has the best imaginary friend.

    It seems to me that the wars start due to human conflict, which have absolutely nothing at all to do with God and religion, but a fervent fight can be prolonged, with hope of winning the war in the name of God.

    Again, that is not a bad thing, that is, to win the war.
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -   edited September 13
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    So then, for example if there is a tribe of religious people minding their own business, and another tribe comes along to pillage and rape them, it is possible for the tribe that is being persecuted to be so hell-bent on revenge that they would go so far as to actually win the war "in the name of God"?

    Yes, and also bearing in mind that the aggressors would no doubt be motivated by God. There are more than enough examples of that happening constantly on the African continent of Christian factions attacking Muslim villages and (sometimes) vice versa, motivated purely by the desire to prove who has the best imaginary friend.

    I think if you examine what is going on down on the African continent, you will find that the conflicts that have been initiated has absolutely nothing at all to do with God.  But since you believe that there would be no conflicts without beliefs in God, I'd like you to show your evidence that this is true, and prove your belief to be true.
    TreeMan
  • wokwok 12 Pts   -  
    However, if you look back at the crusades, it was more based on Constantinople's fear of the collapse of its empire from the invasion of Muslims where at that time Muslims had got the holy area of ​​Yarussalem@Jean    @Jean
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -   edited September 13
    @Sonofason
    But since you believe that there would be no conflicts without beliefs in God, 

    I don't believe such and never said that I did....you stretched a point and made an erroneous conclusion.....once again.

  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    But since you believe that there would be no conflicts without beliefs in God, 

    I don't believe such and never said that I did....you stretched a point and made an erroneous conclusion.....once again.

    The point I made is that belief in God can help win wars.  The point you made was invalid.  Religion and God do not start wars.
    BlastcatTreeMan
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason
    Religion and God do not start wars.

    In that case, why don't you go over to Afghanistan and tell that to the Taliban, and, while you are at it, have a couple of chats with ISIS, Al Quida, Hezbollah, Boko Harem, and Aqa Mul Mujahidin? They may just happen to tell you otherwise.

    All I need you to tell me before you go is, which do you prefer, oak or mahogany?

    Blastcat
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    Religion and God do not start wars.

    In that case, why don't you go over to Afghanistan and tell that to the Taliban, and, while you are at it, have a couple of chats with ISIS, Al Quida, Hezbollah, Boko Harem, and Aqa Mul Mujahidin? They may just happen to tell you otherwise.

    All I need you to tell me before you go is, which do you prefer, oak or mahogany?

    Okay,  I give...you are right.  Religion can be a contributing cause to starting wars.  I was looking at it more like guns don't kill people.  People kill people with guns.  But in truth, having guns can certainly contribute to people being killed by guns...and so it goes with war and religion.
    Blastcat
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason
    But in truth, having guns can certainly contribute to people being killed by guns...and so it goes with war and religion.

    Excellent analogy there. Put the two together (guns, or explosives and religion) and you have a deadly cocktail I think. I'm not taking sides with the Israel / Palestine dispute but I feel sorry for those checkpoint guards when confronted by a kid wearing a backpack or a woman wearing a Burka.

    Blastcat
  • JeanJean 79 Pts   -  
    @wok The Crusades were not organized by Constantinople but by western Europe.
    Blastcat
  • BlastcatBlastcat 261 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: It takes religion

    Steven Weinberg once famously said, "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."
  • DeeDee 4385 Pts   -  

    Whilst many people may say that it was in order to teach Americans about geography 


    1. Be respectful of your fellow DebateIslanders

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    (Attacking the person): This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument. The fallacious attack can also be direct to membership in a group or institution.

    Blastcat
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    Religion and God do not start wars.

    In that case, why don't you go over to Afghanistan and tell that to the Taliban, and, while you are at it, have a couple of chats with ISIS, Al Quida, Hezbollah, Boko Harem, and Aqa Mul Mujahidin? They may just happen to tell you otherwise.

    All I need you to tell me before you go is, which do you prefer, oak or mahogany?

    A god believes what you believe.  If he did not believe as you do, he would not be your god.  People fight wars to get what they want, and because God is on their side, they may concoct sufficient resolve to win the fight.
    Blastcat
  • BlastcatBlastcat 261 Pts   -  
    A god believes what you believe.
    Please provide evidence for the claim.
    CYDdharta
  • ManuElrosadoManuElrosado 7 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw

    War, is the result of political disputes.second, your concept is ideologically interpreted to share some type of association to God and wars.

    It is logically inaccurate to assert:
    1.) That man sinned in form of a premise
    2.)Blame God for war

    You in your initial remark have placed blame on war. To cause a war, is to directly influence it.you can not assert that both sin and God are a cause of war while blaming God for war, is war, is the result of disagreements that result in violence, that is based on principles that are or are not right.

    Additionally your premise associates the Concept that all wars are bad, and therefore whether or not a war is caused someone should be blamed without investigating motives or intentions.can you explain why you view all wars are bad, when you are engaging about a topic you seem fairly emotional about?you don't understand much about the psychology of fighting do you?
    Blastcat
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -   edited October 1
    @ManuElrosado
    you don't understand much about the psychology of fighting do you?

    It appears that that you don't understand the psychology of properly comprehending what is written in front of you.

    As I quite succinctly explained on this page, "In that case, why don't you go over to Afghanistan and tell that to the Taliban, and, while you are at it, have a couple of chats with ISIS, Al Quida, Hezbollah, Boko Harem, and Aqa Mul Mujahidin? They may just happen to tell you otherwise. All I need you to tell me before you go is, which do you prefer, oak or mahogany?

    So, you are trying to infer that the Taliban and Boko Harem are just political groups, are you? Pull the other one.

    Incidentally, the title is a rhetorical question. There is no such thing as God.

    (Watch out folks, the reply will look something like, "Derr well, like, you said.....")

    Blastcat
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:

    There is no such thing as God.

    Please provide evidence for the claim.
    Blastcat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4064 Pts   -  
    For the same reason why close to 100% of video games involve mortal violence: it is fun to watch! One of my favorite games of all time is the Mass Effect series: in it you take the role of commander Shepard who, over the course of the three games (let us forget about Andromeda for a moment), personally slaughters hundreds of sentient beings and AI platforms, commits a genocide of a star system, and at the end, one way or another, deeply alters lives of every living creature in the entire Galaxy against their consent. In many respects Shepard is much worse than Hitler when it comes to the effective "suffering toll" - yet we sympathize with her (if you are playing male Shepard, you are committing a far worse crime still), because she, over the course of all these events, demonstrates certain traits that we generally venerate and can relate to.

    If the Universe is a simulation written by some god, then that god certainly would want the events in it to be interesting to observe. Wars, whether you like them or not, show both the worst and the best in humans, and there is no better way to see what someone is made of, so to speak, than to put them in an incomprehensibly adverse situation and see what they do under duress. Do this with the entire nation, and you got your years worth of entertainment!

    Do not forget that this god is a creature of a much higher level than humans; we are ants to it, if even that. Children growing up in rural areas like playing around with ants, creating obstacles for them, sometimes killing them for fun. There is no reason for god to be different.
    Blastcat
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:
    For the same reason why close to 100% of video games involve mortal violence: it is fun to watch! One of my favorite games of all time is the Mass Effect series: in it you take the role of commander Shepard who, over the course of the three games (let us forget about Andromeda for a moment), personally slaughters hundreds of sentient beings and AI platforms, commits a genocide of a star system, and at the end, one way or another, deeply alters lives of every living creature in the entire Galaxy against their consent. In many respects Shepard is much worse than Hitler when it comes to the effective "suffering toll" - yet we sympathize with her (if you are playing male Shepard, you are committing a far worse crime still), because she, over the course of all these events, demonstrates certain traits that we generally venerate and can relate to.

    If the Universe is a simulation written by some god, then that god certainly would want the events in it to be interesting to observe. Wars, whether you like them or not, show both the worst and the best in humans, and there is no better way to see what someone is made of, so to speak, than to put them in an incomprehensibly adverse situation and see what they do under duress. Do this with the entire nation, and you got your years worth of entertainment!

    Do not forget that this god is a creature of a much higher level than humans; we are ants to it, if even that. Children growing up in rural areas like playing around with ants, creating obstacles for them, sometimes killing them for fun. There is no reason for god to be different.
    No...we are a creation of God, not at all like an ant to a child.  I child has no vested interest in an ant. God knows exactly what we will do when confronted with an obstacle.  A child toys with an ant because they are curious as to what an ant will do.  They find it exhilarating to invoke power and control over the ant, even to the point of the ants death.  How God interacts with us is rather more like how you would interact with your own child.  Do you burn your children with a magnifying glass?  Do you place obstacles before them to see how they will respond.  Do you kill them for fun?
    Blastcat
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -   edited October 3
    @Sonofason
    Please provide evidence for the claim.

    By all means. You provide the parameters for which one needs to prove nothing and I will gladly oblige.

    Meanwhile, please provide evidence that otherwise is true.

    In other words, asking someone to disprove something that isn't even proven in the first place is an absurdity.

    Something for which there is no evidence can be dismissed without evidence. So, since there is no evidence for the existence of God, I am quite entitled to claim that there is no God.

    There is no God.

    You may wish to investigate the link in the following thread.

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/7563/can-anything-be-possible

    Blastcat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4064 Pts   -  
    Sonofason said:

    No...we are a creation of God, not at all like an ant to a child.  I child has no vested interest in an ant. God knows exactly what we will do when confronted with an obstacle.  A child toys with an ant because they are curious as to what an ant will do.  They find it exhilarating to invoke power and control over the ant, even to the point of the ants death.  How God interacts with us is rather more like how you would interact with your own child.  Do you burn your children with a magnifying glass?  Do you place obstacles before them to see how they will respond.  Do you kill them for fun?
    Me and my child are creatures of comparable level, and I know that my child will grow to be just like me, only smarter. But a human, no matter how developed, is compared to god as an ameba is compared to a human. Do you have a lot of compassion for amebae? What would it even mean to have compassion towards it?

    There is a huge Universe out there, likely with countless highly advanced civilizations compared to which humans are apes with sticks. For humanity to be of any interest to god at all, it should provide it with a lot of entertainment - and wars are likely quite entertaining to it when viewed from a distance.
    Blastcat
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    Please provide evidence for the claim.

    By all means. You provide the parameters for which one needs to prove nothing and I will gladly oblige.

    Meanwhile, please provide evidence that otherwise is true.

    In other words, asking someone to disprove something that isn't even proven in the first place is an absurdity.

    Something for which there is no evidence can be dismissed without evidence. So, since there is no evidence for the existence of God, I am quite entitled to claim that there is no God.

    There is no God.

    You may wish to investigate the link in the following thread.

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/7563/can-anything-be-possible

    Life if evidence that God exists. 
    The universe and all matter is evidence that God exists.
    Religion is evidence that God exists.
    The absurd concept of a singularity causing the universe to exist is evidence that God exists.
    These things are evidence of nothing other than the fact that God exists.


  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason
    Life if (is) evidence that God exists. 

    It isn't and is a false conclusion.

    In fact we have found out through careful investigation and overwhelming evidence that there is no indication whatsoever that life was due to anything but the coincidental combination of natural events.

    How the impetus for the initial energy came about, we don't know but suffice to say there is no reason to conclude that God is the answer. There are many theories being investigated but nobody can lay claim to a definitive answer, especially one that makes a non sequitur conclusion.

    Another problem with the "God by default" proposition is that if one were to accept that life is much too complex to have just randomly happened and therefore had to be created, one would have to consider that the creator (God) would need to be even more complex. Therefore God would have to have been created, and so we go on ad infinitum. 

    The complexity argument and the "we are here therefore....God" are non-sensical, illogical and have been well and truly been dismissed ages ago. The only thing left about God or any other supernatural phenomena is belief.....and that's all there is, no evidence, no reason, just belief, wishful thinking, delusion or, whatever you want to call it.

  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    Life if (is) evidence that God exists. 

    It isn't and is a false conclusion.

    In fact we have found out through careful investigation and overwhelming evidence that there is no indication whatsoever that life was due to anything but the coincidental combination of natural events.

    How the impetus for the initial energy came about, we don't know but suffice to say there is no reason to conclude that God is the answer. There are many theories being investigated but nobody can lay claim to a definitive answer, especially one that makes a non sequitur conclusion.

    Another problem with the "God by default" proposition is that if one were to accept that life is much too complex to have just randomly happened and therefore had to be created, one would have to consider that the creator (God) would need to be even more complex. Therefore God would have to have been created, and so we go on ad infinitum. 

    The complexity argument and the "we are here therefore....God" are non-sensical, illogical and have been well and truly been dismissed ages ago. The only thing left about God or any other supernatural phenomena is belief.....and that's all there is, no evidence, no reason, just belief, wishful thinking, delusion or, whatever you want to call it.

    Actually, there is no evidence that life was caused by coincidental combinations of natural events.

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4064 Pts   -  
    Sonofason said:

    Life if evidence that God exists. 
    The universe and all matter is evidence that God exists.
    Religion is evidence that God exists.
    The absurd concept of a singularity causing the universe to exist is evidence that God exists.
    These things are evidence of nothing other than the fact that God exists.
    You should google the definition of the word "evidence". The fact that one of the possible explanations of existence of something is that "god" created it does not make it evidence in favor of god's existence.

    Ancient Greeks, you see, just as much saw thunder as evidence that Zeus existed, love as evidence that Aphrodite existed, war as evidence that Ares existed, and so on. The reasoning is pretty much the same: make something up, connect it to the natural phenomena - and then see this natural phenomena as proof of its existence. Profit!

    I guess Sauron exists too. Sauron causes people to want power, and there are some humans who want power, so...
    Blastcat
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason
    Actually, there is no evidence that life was caused by coincidental combinations of natural events.

    There is overwhelming, irrefutable and abundant evidence that is the case, furthermore, such evidence has ruled out any sign of "interference" or creation.

    The evidence is clearly tabled in detail in the book "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. To date, none of the findings has been successfully overturned.

    https://www.amazon.com.au/Greatest-Richard-Oxford-University-Dawkins/dp/055277524X

  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    Actually, there is no evidence that life was caused by coincidental combinations of natural events.

    There is overwhelming, irrefutable and abundant evidence that is the case, furthermore, such evidence has ruled out any sign of "interference" or creation.

    The evidence is clearly tabled in detail in the book "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. To date, none of the findings has been successfully overturned.

    https://www.amazon.com.au/Greatest-Richard-Oxford-University-Dawkins/dp/055277524X

    Then please do tell me...what exactly was the coincidental combination of natural events that caused life?
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason
    Then please do tell me...what exactly was the coincidental combination of natural events that caused life?

    Such a question cannot be satisfactorily answered in one sentence or a post because of the complexity of the scientific processes.

    In the book you will find the answer in Chapter four, page 84 onwards where it is explained in plain English.

    Did you read that part?

  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    Then please do tell me...what exactly was the coincidental combination of natural events that caused life?

    Such a question cannot be satisfactorily answered in one sentence or a post because of the complexity of the scientific processes.

    In the book you will find the answer in Chapter four, page 84 onwards where it is explained in plain English.

    Did you read that part?

    I don't have access to that book...why don't you just explain it to me.  What were the coincidental combinations.  No, just the last combination, that actually caused life to begin?
  • SwolliwSwolliw 1209 Pts   -   edited October 11
    @Sonofason
    I don't have access to that book

    Wrong again. You do and I posted a link, one of many whereby you can go to the quoted text.

    Feeble and redundant excuses are not reasoning nor are they part of intelligent debating.

    Your arguments are now nothing more than persistent trolling for which you have been and, you have also been for your (once again) despicable behavior in making a personal attack on a fellow member in another of your previous posts.

  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @Sonofason
    I don't have access to that book

    Wrong again. You do and I posted a link, one of many whereby you can go to the quoted text.

    Feeble and redundant excuses are not reasoning nor are they part of intelligent debating.

    Your arguments are now nothing more than persistent trolling for which you have been and, you have also been for your (once again) despicable behavior in making a personal attack on a fellow member in another of your previous posts.

    Well, at least I'm not a liar, like some people who claim that they have seen evidence that life was caused by coincidental combinations of natural events.  Ask them what those events might be, and they haven't got a clue.  Um, and that would be people like you.
  • SonofasonSonofason 367 Pts   -  
    Them thar pants are on fire.
  • dallased25dallased25 19 Pts   -  
    wok said:
    God never create war..... destruction, damage, and war is created by human hands.
    Isaiah 45:7 says, “I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Supposedly this god has an ultimate plan. There cannot be war, which has caused not just death and destruction, but the subjugation of people, enslavement, people being removed from their lands.....in other words...war has caused significant changes over the history of mankind. So if there was a god and has an "ultimate plan", that plan had to have had war within it, which means god created war. Or, you can say that there is no plan and we just do what we want, when we want, which is more of a useless deistic god. 
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