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Give Me Your Best Examples of Contradictions in the Bible

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A common irrational claim from Atheists is that the Bible contains contradictions. I have created this thread to answer these 'contradictions' to the best of my ability. 
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  • NomenclatureNomenclature 1245 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @ProudToBeCatholic
    A common irrational claim from Atheists is that the Bible contains contradictions.

    Irrational? Lol. Tell me another.


    ProudToBeCatholicCatRayanSajjad
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature
    Surely you can do better than that, Nom. Why don't you give me a couple of your supposed 'contradictions'?
    Cat
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 1245 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @ProudToBeCatholic
    Surely you can do better than that, Nom. Why don't you give me a couple of your supposed 'contradictions'?

    Why don't you just Google it?

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/

    While you're there you can also Google "the laws of physics" and see what they have to say about people walking on water, transforming water into wine, talking to bushes, parting the seas with their hands and rising from the dead.

    Then after you finish with that, try Googling a word called "evolution" and see how that matches up with the Adam and Eve story.

    One you get past that, see if you can figure out how large a boat you'd need to carry two of every animal on Earth, and how much food and water you'd need to sustain them.

    But I already know how this works because I've argued with enough of you nutters to know you absolutely cannot be reasoned with. Any contradictions instantly become a "metaphor", while anything which can't immediately be disproven is meant literally. The fact is that you're not well and I don't have any desire to verbally lambast people who aren't well.

    CatProudToBeCatholic
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @ProudToBeCatholic


    Here's one, the god you worship according to the Bile ( intentional ) watches children being raped and abused daily and doesn't  intervene to save them when he easily could , is his decision not to intervene  moral.?

    If so how is it ever " moral" to watch children being raped when you could  save them ?

    If its not a moral decision why do you worship an immoral God?

    I'm better than your god as I would If I could intervene,  you worship an evil god , whys that. 




    NomenclatureCatOakTownA
  • BarnardotBarnardot 519 Pts   -  
    @Dee ;Here's one, the god you worship according to the Bile ( intentional ) watches children being raped and abused daily and doesn't  intervene to save them when he easily could 

    Thats not a contradiction though is it because weather its a child who gets rapped or some one who gets murdered or some one that hangs out of pubic toilets who says that God can intervene any way any way also who says that God wood intervene any way even if he could because God put us here to test us and he talks about the week and the strong and the good and the evil and if you look at all the raps a round your going to find that they were asking for it any way.

  • just_sayinjust_sayin 853 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: @Dee claims there is evil, then there must be God

    @Dee claimed God was wrong for allowing kids to die.

    Now just how did you come to that conclusion?  It seems to me you have put forth a claim that can not be supported for an atheist.  You have claimed it is evil for God to not intervene.  Why?  You have made some type of moral judgement, but why would your judgement have any more meaning than anyone else.  It seems to me that to make such a claim you would need to appeal to some universal type law to impose your moral view on others.  And to do so you would have to conclude that their is a moral lawgiver - and this universal law giver must be God.  By your very argument you put forth a proof of God's existence.

    To answer the question, God is not responsible for the actions of others, any more than you are responsible for what someone else will do.  God gave us free will.  God as creator can do whatever He wants with His creation.  After all He is the creator.  You seem to have suggested that He has done some wrong to the children.  He has not.  Since the promise of the Bible is eternal life for the righteous, then the child's life does not conclude upon death.  The child's spirit continues, and that spirit resides with God now.  '
     
    Could you call it free will if you did not allow people the power to make their choice?  If you intervened every time, would that be free will?  It seems you have employed several logical fallacies in your argument.
    CatProudToBeCatholicNomenclatureDaveD
  • @ProudToBeCatholic

    : a body of writings considered sacred or authoritative
    Scripture Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

    Give Me Your Best Examples of Contradictions in the Scriptures

    Pi is a ratio.....

    : the quality or state of being close or near
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature

    Why don't you just Google it? https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/ While you're there you can also Google "the laws of physics" and see what they have to say about people walking on water, transforming water into wine, talking to bushes, parting the seas with their hands and rising from the dead. Then after you finish with that, try Googling a word called "evolution" and see how that matches up with the Adam and Eve story. One you get past that, see if you can figure out how large a boat you'd need to carry two of every animal on Earth, and how much food and water you'd need to sustain them. But I already know how this works because I've argued with enough of you nutters to know you absolutely cannot be reasoned with. Any contradictions instantly become a "metaphor", while anything which can't immediately be disproven is meant literally. The fact is that you're not well and I don't have any desire to verbally lambast people who aren't well.

    I didn’t ask for a link to 20 Bible 'contradictions'. Give me one at a time and I will answer them for you, alright?

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Here's one, the god you worship according to the Bile ( intentional ) watches children being raped and abused daily and doesn't  intervene to save them when he easily could , is his decision not to intervene  moral.? If so how is it ever " moral" to watch children being raped when you could  save them ? If its not a moral decision why do you worship an immoral God? I'm better than your god as I would If I could intervene,  you worship an evil god , whys that.

    Dee, @Just_Sayin already provided a perfect response, so I’ll keep mine brief. You are misunderstanding a very essential point. God allows free will. If He didn’t, we would all be robots. He doesn’t make us follow Him, nor does He make us do right. If He were to do that, then we could not have a relationship with Him, we could not have intellects that think and act accordingly, nor could we choose to accept or reject Him. Instead, God gave us free will and the person that sins and does not repent will be sent to hell for their sin, if not punished in this life as well. What about Adam and Eve? Why did God put that one bad tree among all the good ones and tell them not to eat of it? Wouldn’t it have been better if He never put it there in the first place? The answer is no. God put that tree there to test them; to see if they would obey Him and not eat of it, or turn from Him and obey their own desires. They fell but God could have prevented it. He chose not to because He is patiently waiting to see who will follow Him and who will not. He gives us the choice instead of making the choice for us. There will be a time though, when God will have a day of reckoning with these wicked people and they will be judged according to their deeds. And we who put our faith in Christ and live for Him will inherit the kingdom of God, where there will be no more sin, tears, pain, etc.(Rev. 21:4-6) So yes, the Lord’s decision not to intervene is perfectly moral. Here are a couple of verses:

    Proverbs 16:4- The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

    2 Peter 3:9- The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

    Genesis 50:20- As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

    1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

    And finally: John 3:16-17- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    Uh, can you please explain to me how this contradicts the Scriptures and what this has to do with anything related to contradictions in the Scripture? I see you gave the definition of Scripture, but you lost me when you went into Pi. Could you please clear this up for me? Thanks!

    Cat
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 1245 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @just_sayin
    Now just how did you come to that conclusion?  It seems to me you have put forth a claim that can not be supported for an atheist.  You have claimed it is evil for God to not intervene.  Why?

    You're seriously asking why we shouldn't worship a God who lets his own priests rape kids?

    Wow.

    It seems to me that to make such a claim you would need to appeal to some universal type law to impose your moral view on others.  And to do so you would have to conclude that their is a moral lawgiver - and this universal law giver must be God. By your very argument you put forth a proof of God's existence.

    It seems to me that you're saying raping kids isn't morally wrong unless God says so. Assuming that absurd conclusion is true, and given the fact that there's a lot of child rape, we can draw one of two conclusions. Either God doesn't think raping kids is morally wrong, or he does think it's morally wrong but doesn't do anything to stop it. Hence, either way, by your very own logic you worship a God who is OK with raping kids. 

    ProudToBeCatholicDeeCatDaveD
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature

    Nomenclature,

    It seems to me that you're saying raping kids isn't morally wrong unless God says so. Assuming that absurd conclusion is true, and given the fact that there's a lot of child rape, we can draw one of two conclusions. Either God doesn't think raping kids is morally wrong, or he does think it's morally wrong but doesn't do anything to stop it. Hence, either way, by your very own logic you worship a God who is OK with raping kids.

    You are presenting a non-sequitur here. You first stated, “Either God doesn’t think raping kids is morally wrong, or he does think it’s morally wrong but doesn’t do anything to stop it.” And then you came to the conclusion that “Either way, by your very own logic you worship a God who is OK with raping kids.” I agree with the first part of your statement; God does not do anything to stop child rapists, in most cases. But your conclusion that you are drawing from that is false. If God, in His own word, condemns sexual immorality of any sort, Ephesians 5:1-5- “Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person-such a person is an idolater-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.”, then it would not follow that God is okay with sexual immorality, including child rape. God is not okay with it, however, He gives humans free will and has designated the place of punishment in the after-life, hell, for such persons. God will never let anybody get away with sin, for then He would no longer be a just God and that would completely annihilate the whole purpose of Jesus dying for us. Just because we do not see their punishment here on Earth does not mean God is okay with what they are doing.

    And on the topic of God letting His own priests rape kids, the same follows. Know for certain that they will be punished. Ephesians 5:1-5 calls them idolaters. “No immoral, impure, or greedy person-such a person is an idolater-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.” All wicked people, no matter whether they profess to be Christian or not, will not inherit the kingdom of God. So no, God is not okay with sin, and He will judge sin. For now, He allows humanity free will to see whether they will respond or reject Him before the end of their lives, just as He did in the garden of Eden.

    NomenclatureCat
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Barnardot

     God put us here to test us and he talks about the week and the strong and the good and the evil and if you look at all the raps a round your going to find that they were asking for it any way.

    Ahh right most rapes including the rape of children " they were asking for it " .....Wow! You're one sick f-ck 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @just_sayin

    Dee claimed God was wrong for allowing kids to die.

    No I asked .......how is it ever " moral" to watch children being raped when you could  save them ?

    If its not a moral decision why do you worship an immoral God?

    I'm better than your god as I would If I could intervene,  you worship an evil god , whys that?



    Now just how did you come to that conclusion?  It seems to me you have put forth a claim that can not be supported for an atheist. 
     You have claimed it is evil for God to not intervene.  Why?

    You seriously need e to explain how I make moral decisions?


      You have made some type of moral judgement, but why would your judgement have any more meaning than anyone else. 

    I follow the golden rule I treat others as i wish to be treated myself , do you see how this might be a pretty effective way of making moral decisions.?


    It seems to me that to make such a claim you would need to appeal to some universal type law to impose your moral view on others.

    Why would I need to do that? Also I'm not "imposing" my moral views on others that's lunatics like you and your evil god

      And to do so you would have to conclude that their is a moral lawgiver - and this universal law giver must be God.  By your very argument you put forth a proof of God's existence.

    But I've concluded no such thing. Your closing remark is hilarious. 

    To answer the question, God is not responsible for the actions of others,

    I never said he was


     any more than you are responsible for what someone else will do.  God gave us free will

    Unfounded assertion so your god gave us what he hasn't got as in free will?


    God as creator can do whatever He wants with His creation.

    Them if God says rape is morally good you and fellow Christians would agree , right?

        all He is the creator.  You seem to have suggested that He has done some wrong to the children.  He has not. 

    Again didn't say that , do try and keep up I said he does not intervene when he easily could.


    Since the promise of the Bible is eternal life for the righteous, then the child's life does not conclude upon death.  The child's spirit continues, and that spirit resides with God now.  '

    You still haven't answered my questions
     
    Could you call it free will if you did not allow people the power to make their choice?  If you intervened every time, would that be free will?  It seems you have employed several logical fallacies in your argument.

    I've employed zero logical fallacies , you're pretty insane by any standard you actually justify God watching children being raped and see his decision  as morally perfect .....Wow,



    CatProudToBeCatholicNomenclature


    CatDaveD
  • BarnardotBarnardot 519 Pts   -  
    @Dee ;Wow! You're one sick f-ck 

    Not at all because what I meen is not what your trying to make out what I meen because what I meen is that people don’t walk up to a rapist and say hay mister please rape me because it would nt be rape any way What I am saying is that women and kids who are dum enough to go down alleys just to take a short cut are putting them selves in danger so they might as well ask for it any way because it’s only a matter of time and that a rappist is going to do it because that’s where they get there victims. So say if God could do any thing about it but he doesn’t may be that’s why he let it happen because the victim was asking for it and God just smacks his head and says what a dummy that kid or woman is for going down they alley so I’m just going to let this one slide because the victim is getting natural punishment because they should know that it’s a dog eat dog world and I shouldn’t have to bake people out because they didn’t use there grey matter and asked for it any way.

    ProudToBeCatholicDaveD
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 1245 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @ProudToBeCatholic
    You are presenting a non-sequitur here

    I'm just honestly baffled at how you can use Freudian projection so openly within the course of debate. God is not a rational conclusion to draw from any existing physical fact, so your entire religion is a non-sequitur.

    You first stated, “Either God doesn’t think raping kids is morally wrong, or he does think it’s morally wrong but doesn’t do anything to stop it.” And then you came to the conclusion that “Either way, by your very own logic you worship a God who is OK with raping kids.”

    In which upside down universe is that a non-sequitur?

    I agree with the first part of your statement; God does not do anything to stop child rapists, in most cases.

    Right, so he has the power to intervene but doesn't. According to the law that makes him an accomplice to child rape. 

    But your conclusion that you are drawing from that is false

    No it isn't. According to your wingnut religion God is omnipotent and can do anything he wants. He punished Adam and Eve for stealing an apple, he punished the entire world except Noah for getting on his nerves, but he doesn't punish people for raping kids or starting wars which kill millions. Your God has a set of double standards which would make Hitler blush.

    If God, in His own word, condemns sexual immorality of any sort, Ephesians 5:1-5

    Your premise is false and you are cherry-picking text from the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that God is fine with child rape:-

    Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

    And again:-

    If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

    Your God has a very casual attitude to rape:-

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

    In fact, your God says we should stone married rape victims to death:-

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    That you are trying to defend this utterly abhorrent nonsense only shows how twisted your own mind is.

    ProudToBeCatholicCatDaveD
  • @ProudToBeCatholic

    Uh, can you please explain to me how this contradicts the Scriptures and what this has to do with anything related to contradictions in the Scripture? I see you gave the definition of Scripture, but you lost me when you went into Pi. Could you please clear this up for me? Thanks!

    Sure, scripture has a bigger united state with writngs then you antisipated when asking the question.
    Scripture: a body of writings considered sacred or authoritative.
    Scripture Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
    ProudToBeCatholicCat
  • John_C_87John_C_87 Emerald Premium Member 864 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @Nomenclature

    Your God has a very casual attitude to rape:-

    As a whole truth what makes you sure rape exist, a man forcing himself on a women is by fact starting a form of illegal immigration and attempted murder by its connection to established justice as a sexual asualt. These words are closer to whole truth, asualt then becoming a lesser connection to established justice then attemped murder. The idea of sex without permision comes and goes at any time before or after an attack leading to sex by a couple, whereas, while sex by permission or no permission is only at the immigratioin risk of a women. This is a failor on behalf of all women to address a united state consitutional right that should not be ignored. By having sex the women takes her own life, in her own hands, by her own partisiption, The man's loss of life by sex is limited to desease by his permission not immigration resualting in his death.

    ProudToBeCatholic
    God allows free will.

    No, people assume fee will...GOD does not allow people to have free will. GOD does not allow for Free will for it is: will —used to express desire, choice, willingness, consent, or in negative constructions refusal which is then combined with the idea of the value as condition without cost. Your argument is based on an idea that Christianity, Catholics, and other religions and none- religions focused on in biblical reading They support a premise I do not hold as whole true, though I know and recognize GOD as fact as described in the Bible. One of the Questions in contradiction in writing that is brought to attention by the Bible, with no disrespect, Jesus acts out the same crime against GOD as Lucifer had, and it is only in a different way and who is tasked to punishes Jesus that changes. 


  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @ProudToBeCatholic


    Dee, @Just_Sayin already provided a perfect response, so I’ll keep mine brief


    Your idea of perfect differs vastly to mine. Just a heads up just saying hates catholics so why are you licking his b-tt?


    . You are misunderstanding a very essential point. God allows free will.

    Really?  Your god hasn't got what he grants to humans ,hows that work?

    ,


     If He didn’t, we would all be robots. He doesn’t make us follow Him, nor does He make us do right. If He were to do that, then we could not have a relationship with Him, we could not have intellects that think and act accordingly, nor could we choose to accept or reject Him. Instead, God gave us free will and the person that sins and does not repent will be sent to hell for their sin, if not punished in this life as well. What about Adam and Eve? Why did God put that one bad tree among all the good ones and tell them not to eat of it? Wouldn’t it have been better if He never put it there in the first place? The answer is no. God put that tree there to test them; to see if they would obey Him and not eat of it, or turn from Him and obey their own desires. They fell but God could have prevented it. He chose not to because He is patiently waiting to see who will follow Him and who will not. He gives us the choice instead of making the choice for us. There will be a time though, when God will have a day of reckoning with these wicked people and they will be judged according to their deeds. And we who put our faith in Christ and live for Him will inherit the kingdom of God, where there will be no more sin, tears, pain, etc.(Rev. 21:4-6) So yes, the Lord’s decision not to intervene is perfectly moral. Here are a couple of verses:


    Why are you preching at me? The bible is a book full of the hate filled  dictates of a celestial bully.

    You actually being insane believe watching a child being raped and not intervening is " perfectly moral " , wow!


    Proverbs 16:4- The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

    2 Peter 3:9- The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

    Genesis 50:20- As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

    1 John 5:19- We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

    And finally: John 3:16-17- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.


    I'm not interested in your childish bible verses, vile people like you who pay a filthy corrupt organisation that protects , hides and pays perverts are despicable beyond belief. 

    NomenclatureProudToBeCatholicCat
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Barnardot

    So say if God could do any thing about it but he doesn’t may be that’s why he let it happen because the victim was asking for it and God just smacks his head and says what a dummy that kid or woman is for going down they alley

    But the only one is mentiong an alley is you , kids are raped at home do you not realise this? If your child wandered down the alley you would actually call your child a " dummy" for doing so?  You're one sick f-ck.


    so I’m just going to let this one slide because the victim is getting natural punishment because they should know that it’s a dog eat dog world and I shouldn’t have to bake people out because they didn’t use there grey matter and asked for it any way.

    Right so kids that's get raped are " getting natural punishment " bet you wouldn't say that if it was one of your kids or say it to your wife you sicko
    ProudToBeCatholicCat
  • just_sayinjust_sayin 853 Pts   -  
    @Dee engaged in more special pleading because he knows his argument has been shredded to pieces yet again (end of recap)

    You've essentially asked the classical question "Is God evil for allowing evil to exist."  Are you evil for allowing a spider to eat a fly?  Are you evil for allowing a cat to eat a mouse?  Are you a murderer for not stopping an ant from killing another ant?  Most likely you'd say no.  Your sense of moral obligation doesn't extend to things that you consider beneath your own existence.  Strange then, that you would think that God owes you something.  You are much more like an ant, than God is like you.  God as the creator has no moral obligations to His creation.  It is His to do with as He wishes.  If an artist breaks or destroys their art piece, they have not "sinned" by doing so.  It was theirs to do with what they wanted.  If God chooses to smash you like a bug, or allow someone else to do so, He has not done anything wrong.  He is the creator and can do with His creation as He chooses.

    Free will is very much at the heart of the idea of why evil is permitted.  To stop evil God would have to get rid of all agents of free will.  That means you too.  A world without free will may be without evil, but would also be without true love also.  It is only in a world where someone can choose to love or choose not to love that real love can exist.  A world of love is a better world to live in, even if there is evil in it.  


    John_C_87NomenclatureProudToBeCatholicDeeJoeKerrCat
  • @just_sayin

    You've essentially asked the classical question "Is God evil for allowing evil to exist."  Are you evil for allowing a spider to eat a fly?  Are you evil for allowing a cat to eat a mouse?  Are you a murderer for not stopping an ant from killing another ant?  Most likely you'd say no.  Your sense of moral obligation doesn't extend to things that you consider beneath your own existence.  Strange then, that you would think that God owes you something.  You are much more like an ant, than God is like you.  God as the creator has no moral obligations to His creation.  It is His to do with as He wishes.  If an artist breaks or destroys their art piece, they have not "sinned" by doing so.  It was theirs to do with what they wanted.  If God chooses to smash you like a bug, or allow someone else to do so, He has not done anything wrong.  He is the creator and can do with His creation as He chooses.

    Free will is very much at the heart of the idea of why evil is permitted.  To stop evil God would have to get rid of all agents of free will.  That means you too.  A world without free will may be without evil, but would also be without true love also.  It is only in a world where someone can choose to love or choose not to love that real love can exist.  A world of love is a better world to live in, even if there is evil in it.  

    Do you want  me to try and explain why what you said is a fallacy?
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 1245 Pts   -  
    @just_sayin
    @Dee engaged in more special pleading because he knows his argument has been shredded to pieces yet again 

    You are a fanatical religious lunatic who would have difficulty shredding a cabbage, let alone an argument.

    You've essentially asked the classical question "Is God evil for allowing evil to exist."  Are you evil for allowing a spider to eat a fly?  Are you evil for allowing a cat to eat a mouse?  Are you a murderer for not stopping an ant from killing another ant?

    None of those things are our personal creations. What spiders and cats do hasn't got anything to do with us. Did you somehow miss this self-evident fact while you were busy shredding your cabbage?

    Free will is very much at the heart of the idea of why evil is permitted.

    You are an irrational person who continuously contradicts yourself. You talk about free will, yet the Bible is stuffed full of specific orders, supposedly from God, to murder people for doing certain things. If God believes in free will then why would he order me to murder my brother for converting to Islam or my cousin for having a homosexual relationship?

    Your entire ideology is one big fat contradiction of itself.

    ProudToBeCatholicDeeCat
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @just_sayin

    engaged in more special pleading because he knows his argument has been shredded to pieces yet again (end of recap)

    Just saying  being a prize moron resorts to lying ......yet again 

    You've essentially asked the classical question "Is God evil for allowing evil to exist."  Are you evil for allowing a spider to eat a fly?  Are you evil for allowing a cat to eat a mouse?  Are you a murderer for not stopping an ant from killing another ant?  Most likely you'd say no.

    But the question isn't about me its about the god you pretend to believe in.

      Your sense of moral obligation doesn't extend to things that you consider beneath your own existence

    What do you base that piece of nonsense on.?

    Strange then, that you would think that God owes you something

    I don't believe in God you moron 

    .  You are much more like an ant, than God is like you. 

    I still don't believe in God 


     God as the creator has no moral obligations to His creation

    Right, so of god tells his sheeple killing babies is right you'd all do it.? 


    .  It is His to do with as He wishes.  If an artist breaks or destroys their art piece, they have not "sinned" by doing so.  It was theirs to do with what they wanted.  If God chooses to smash you like a bug, or allow someone else to do so, He has not done anything wrong.  He is the creator and can do with His creation as He chooses.

    Right got ya , so God  watching babies being raped and  not  intervening s a "morally " good decision  ........wow,!

    Free will is very much at the heart of the idea of why evil is permitted

    But your god doesn't have freewill , hows that work?

    .  To stop evil God would have to get rid of all agents of free will.

    But then you have to admit one has no free will in heaven , hows that work?

      That means you too.  A world without free will may be without evil, but would also be without true love also.

    OK , explain how heaven works then?

      It is only in a world where someone can choose to love or choose not to love that real love can exist.  A world of love is a better world to live in, even if there is evil in it.  

    So thanks for the sermon, you still believe that your god sits and enjoys babies being raped as he refuses to intervene yet you crawl and suck up to this immoral  scum bag ......dear oh dear. 
    ProudToBeCatholicCatDaveD
  • 21CenturyIconoclast21CenturyIconoclast 169 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @ProudToBeCatholic

    ProudToBeCatholic, whose mantra is; "Do not cherry-pick biblical passages, even though they are inspired by Jesus, that totally embarrasses me and my primitive thinking Bronze and Iron Age Catholic Religion,” and is the number one king of using ungodly EISIGENSIS in trying to rewrite Jesus' actual literal words, and the number one Bible Apologist that twists himself into a pretzel to "try" and change Jesus' disturbing and despicable inspired words,


    YOUR BIBLE IGNORANT AND QUOTE AGAIN: "God allows free will. If He didn't, we would all be robots." 

    https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/160596/#Comment_160596


    We all can see that you didn't just show your blatant Bible ignorance and stupidity in my thread relating to churches should not allow the handicapped, but now you show it within this thread as well!  Is there a time limit on your Bible stupidity, or do we have to put up with it ad infinitum?”


    Listen up Bible fool, PSEUDO-CHRISTIANS LIKE YOU DO NOT HAVE FREE WILL, where I have only shown a few of MANY Jesus inspired passages below proving this biblical AXIOM!!!

    1. “The lot is cast into the lap, but it's every decision is from the LORD” (Proverbs 16:33).  

    2. "Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand (Proverbs 19:21).

    3.  "The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps" (Proverbs 16:9).

    4.  JESUS SAID: "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope (Jeremiah 29:11).

    5. “Oh Lord, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar. You scrutinize my path and my lying down, And are intimately acquainted with ALL my ways.” (Psalm 139:1-3)

    6. The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.” (Proverbs 16:1)

    7. He PREDESTINED us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,” (Ephesians 1:5)

    8. “In him we were also chosen, having been PREDESTINED according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will” (Ephesians 1:11)

    9. “For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had PREDESTINED to take place.” (Acts 4:27-28)


    Now, for great comedy and laughter AGAIN at your embarrassing expense, I want you to put on your apologist pseudo-christian aluminum pointed hat, and use your ungodly practice of EISIGENSIS, as it will be shown by you, to try and deny the very disturbing Jesus inspired passages above AS EXPLICITLY WRITTEN, showing that pseudo-christians DO NOT have FREE WILL like you erroneously proffered in your quote above! 

    BEGIN: 

    .

    ProudToBeCatholicCatDaveD
  • 21CenturyIconoclast21CenturyIconoclast 169 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @ProudToBeCatholic


    ProudToBeCatholic, whose mantra is; "Do not cherry-pick biblical passages, even though they are inspired by Jesus, that totally embarrasses me and my primitive thinking Bronze and Iron Age Catholic Religion,” and is the number one king of using ungodly EISIGENSIS in trying to rewrite Jesus' actual literal words, and the number one Bible Apologist that twists himself into a pretzel to "try" and change Jesus' disturbing and despicable inspired words,


    YOUR QUOTE OF YOUR THREAD THAT GRAMMATICALLY "ADMITS" THERE ARE CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE: "Give me your best examples of Contradictions in the Scriptures" 

    Huh?  Did you "slip" on your "Freudian" again? LOL!  Quit making it so easy for us to make you the Bible fool, okay? At least give us a challenge!


    YOUR FUNNY "IRRATIONAL" CLAIM THAT THERE IS NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE PRIMITIVE BRONZE AND IRON AGE BIBLE: "A common irrational claim from Atheists is that the Bible contains contradictions. I have created this thread to answer these 'contradictions' to the best of my ability." 

    You were kidding us, correct? Huh? I'll just give you one of many blatant Bible contradictions, as shown below:


    BIBLICAL AXIOMS:  The creation of Man was from dust (Genesis 2:7), and woman from Adam's rib (Genesis 2:22-24), and additionally, the entire universe was created as well at approximately 6000 years ago as shown within the primitive Bible.

    SCIENCE OF THE CREATION OF MAN AND THE UNIVERSE: "The first humans emerged in Africa around two million years ago, long before the modern humans known as Homo sapiens appeared on the same continent, through Evolution. Astronomers and scientists have determined that our universe is 13.7 billion years old


    Now, get out your EISIGENSIS aluminum pointed hat and try and prove that the above FACTS are not a contradiction from the Bible vs Science! (EISIGENSIS: an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the, as written, text.)

    BEGIN: 

    .
    ProudToBeCatholicCat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Nomenclature
    Nomenclature,

    I'm just honestly baffled at how you can use Freudian projection so openly within the course of debate. God is not a rational conclusion to draw from any existing physical fact, so your entire religion is a non-sequitur.

    God is a rational conclusion to draw existing physical facts from. It is a much more rational thought process than thinking the world came from a big bang or any of the other theories you atheists have for the origin of the world. If you draw from your atheistic arguments to prove the world evolved over billions of years, to the point where it is today, you would have no rational conclusion to draw from any existing physical fact, so does that make atheism a non-sequitur as well? Can you prove to me that billions of years ago, whatever theory of evolution you propose, began? If not, then by your own admission, your entire viewpoint is a non-sequitur, no?

     

    In which upside down universe is that a non-sequitur?

    It is a non-sequitur because God is not okay with raping kids. You presented one faulty conclusion based on two choices without leaving room for another possibility. Your conclusion does not logically follow from your previous statement. If I watch my child steal a cookie and don’t stop him, am I okay with him eating that cookie? Not if I told him he couldn’t. It could simply be because I am testing him. I am not okay with him stealing the cookie, but I allow him to do so to see if he will obey the rules or not. I do not stop him nor confront him until after the matter has happened. In the same way, God has put us here to test us. It is not His job to stop us every time we do something wrong, for we have free will. He will punish us for doing evil still, just maybe not in the moment.

     

    Right, so he has the power to intervene but doesn't. According to the law that makes him an accomplice to child rape.

    No. For a couple of reasons. (a) You are treating God as if He is a normal human being. God is far higher than us human beings and therefore is not bound by the laws we have set in place as a culture. (b) You have created a straw man argument. It does not make you an accomplice to child rape if you don’t intervene. Look it up. You only become an accomplice to a crime when you aid or abet. That could mean you are cheering, encouraging the criminal, or actually helping perform the crime, but in no way does not doing anything about a crime make you an accomplice. (c) God is not sitting there cheering the person on or just letting it happen. No, He will punish them for it, either in this life, or with eternal damnation. God is not an accomplice of child-rape, nor does He want people to commit a disgusting crime like that.

     

    No it isn't. According to your wingnut religion God is omnipotent and can do anything he wants. He punished Adam and Eve for stealing an apple, he punished the entire world except Noah for getting on his nerves, but he doesn't punish people for raping kids or starting wars which kill millions. Your God has a set of double standards which would make Hitler blush.

    First, Adam and Eve were the entire human race. That literally means the entire human race fell at that moment. Second God did not punish the entire world for getting on His nerves. Notice that God said they were exceedingly wicked. The entire Earth had rejected God, except for Noah and his eight sons and their wives. (Genesis 7:1) Also notice that St. Peter says God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built and that Noah was a preacher of righteousness to the people (1 Peter 3:19-20). So to answer your question about God destroying Noah’s generation but not punishing people today for sin, well, God did not just wipe them out after they sinned. He gave them 120 years to repent before He destroyed the Earth and even before He enacted that decree, the people had been living wickedly. It was not some, “O you sinned, Imma strike you dead” kind of moment. This is another reason God does not stop evil. He is patient and not willing that any should perish, but that they would come to the knowledge of the truth. Therefore, it logically follows that He would wait and give people multiple chances to come to Him. This is not cruelty. It is rather, love from the Creator of the universe who allows us to live even when we are in rebellion to Him. There is a measure of wickedness though that the Bible speaks of. God refused to destroy the Amorites in Genesis 15:16 ‘for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure’. So to us, it might look like God is just ignoring sin, but be assured He is not. Everyone will die eventually and they will experience punishment for the things they have done, if they do not repent.

     

    Your premise is false and you are cherry-picking text from the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that God is fine with child rape:-

    Numbers 31:7-18 does not show that God is fine with child rape. Notice that God did not want them to take the women captive in the first place. Numbers 31:13-16- “Moses and Eleazar the priest and all the chiefs of the congregation went to meet them outside the camp. And Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. Moses said to them, “Have you let all the women live? Behold, these, on Balaam’s advice, cause the people of Israel to act treacherously against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the LORD.” So bear in mind that God did not command the people to keep the women. However, Moses acted according to his judgment and, after chastising the people for bringing the women with them, told them to kill the males, and the females who have had relations. And then he said to keep the young girls for themselves. Notice that the text never says they were raped and in fact, it was against Israelite law to rape a person. God states in Deuteronomy 21:11 that, “If you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife.” God has always commanded individuals be married before relations so it would be foolish to say that because Moses tells the people they may keep the virgins for themselves, that they raped them. According to Jewish law, they would’ve had to marry them. And the same applies to the next verse you provided.

     

    Your God has a very casual attitude to rape:- If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

    This verse does not show a casual attitude toward rape at all. In ancient Israelite times, if a woman did not have a husband, she would have a very difficult time living in that culture. So, this was God’s way of doing the young woman a favor. He is forcing the man to first pay money to her father and then basically take care of her for the rest of her life. In those days, if you were raped, you would never end up married to another person, but to ensure that the woman in question would not live out her days struggling to live a successful life, God is forcing the man who raped her to take care of her for the rest of her life. That is why He is never allowed to divorce her. This was a penalty to the man and a favor to the woman.

     

    In fact, your God says we should stone married rape victims to death:- If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    No, this passage is not speaking of rape. Notice a couple of things. First, it say if a man come upon a maiden while in the city. This means they would be around plenty of people. Second, it says they shall be stoned because she did not cry out. So we are talking about a public setting where a woman could cry out but doesn’t. If she is able to cry out but instead lets the man in question have his way with her, this is obviously speaking of both persons being willing parties in the act. Notice that God does not say if he comes upon her in the middle of nowhere, but in the middle of the city. He is speaking of both parties giving their consent and for this, they are both stoned to death.

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    John C 87,

    Sure, scripture has a bigger united state with writngs then you antisipated when asking the question. Scripture: a body of writings considered sacred or authoritative. Scripture Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

    Oh thanks. I see what you mean. I should have clarified that I was speaking of the Bible, because all religions have their own Scripture. Thanks and I fixed that error.

     

    One of the Questions in contradiction in writing that is brought to attention by the Bible, with no disrespect, Jesus acts out the same crime against GOD as Lucifer had, and it is only in a different way and who is tasked to punishes Jesus that changes

    Can you please expound upon this? When did Jesus act out the same crime against God as Lucifer did? Jesus is God and Lucifer was punished for rebellion against God.

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Dee
    Dee,

    Dee,

    Your idea of perfect differs vastly to mine. Just a heads up just saying hates catholics so why are you licking his b-tt?

    If @Just_Sayin hates Catholics as you propose that does not change anything. I will still commend his good responses to questions because it matters not what his view of me is. If someone makes a good argument, I will gladly congratulate them on it, whether they hate me or not.

     

    Really?  Your god hasn't got what he grants to humans ,hows that work?

    God does have free will. What do you mean? God has free will and I don’t know why you are saying he doesn’t. Maybe expound on that a bit, yes?

     

    Why are you preching at me? The bible is a book full of the hate filled  dictates of a celestial bully.You actually being insane believe watching a child being raped and not intervening is " perfectly moral " , wow!

    I am not preaching at you; I was trying to provide a good explanation that would satisfy you but I apologize if you took it that way.

    And I just gave an explanation to, I think it was to @Nomenclature that answers your second statement.

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @21CenturyIconoclast

    21CenturyIconoclast,

    We all can see that you didn't just show your blatant Bible ignorance and stupidity in my thread relating to churches should not allow the handicapped, but now you show it within this thread as well!  Is there a time limit on your Bible stupidity, or do we have to put up with it ad infinitum?”

    I showed your stupidity in the church thread you created and you have to be blind not to see that. And I have not shown any stupidity in this thread either.

     

    Listen up Bible fool, PSEUDO-CHRISTIANS LIKE YOU DO NOT HAVE FREE WILL, where I have only shown a few of MANY Jesus inspired passages below proving this biblical AXIOM!!!

    You seem to really enjoy picking Scripture verses that only show one side of God’s nature and it is getting annoying having to correct you so often.

    1-6. These verses all emphasize the sovereignty of God. They show that the Lord is ultimately in control of everything. This does not mean that the Lord doesn’t work within our will. God knows the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10) so it logically follows that if God can see all of history from the beginning, every choice we will ever make, everything that will ever happen, He can work within our wills while still being sovereign. Remember, Christians hold to two types of will: prescriptive and descriptive. God’s prescriptive are things He says will happen and nobody can do anything to change that. We humans do not have the ability to change that. If the Lord says that He will send a famine over the land like He did in Joseph’s time, He will do it. Nobody can stop that. However there is also His descriptive will. God knows the future and so He works within the choices He knows humans will make. Thus, He remains sovereign and all of these verses still hold true. He is truly the one deciding on things but everything has been laid out bare before Him from the foundation of the world and therefore He can decide the course of history based on our wills and His will while still exercising sovereignty over all will. With this in mind, take a look at the first 6 passages you provided and tell me if that makes sense, please.

    7-9. This deals with the same kind of thing. God has predestined us according to His foreknowledge. (Romans 8:29) Therefore when these other passages say God predestined us, we can catch a glimpse into how this works. Once again, God knows the beginning from the end and therefore knows how all of history will play out. Thus, it follows that He also knows who will respond to His call and who will not. Those who will respond to His call, He predestines, and those who will not, He does not predestine. This once again shows God’s sovereignty over the human will while He works within the human will at the same time.

    So, we as humans do have free will, but God, working within our free will to some extent, has worked out His plan for the salvation of man according to His foreknowledge, and therefore maintains sovereignty over all while still allowing freedom on our part to accept or reject Him; to sin or not sin.

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @21CenturyIconoclast

    21 Century Iconoclast,

    Huh?  Did you "slip" on your "Freudian" again? LOL!  Quit making it so easy for us to make you the Bible fool, okay? At least give us a challenge!

    I did not admit there are contradictions in the Scripture. I invited others to tell me contradictions they believe are in the Scripture. Read the description of the debate and you will see that. You really like stretching to try and make meaningless points.

    BIBLICAL AXIOMS:  The creation of Man was from dust (Genesis 2:7), and woman from Adam's rib (Genesis 2:22-24), and additionally, the entire universe was created as well at approximately 6000 years ago as shown within the primitive Bible. SCIENCE OF THE CREATION OF MAN AND THE UNIVERSE: "The first humans emerged in Africa around two million years ago, long before the modern humans known as Homo sapiens appeared on the same continent, through Evolution. Astronomers and scientists have determined that our universe is 13.7 billion years old.

    What you failed to mention on this point is that there are others who disagree with this statement of ‘science’. Check it out:

    DNA IN ‘ANCIENT’ FOSSILS: DNA extracted from bacteria that are supposed to be 425 million years old brings into question that age, because DNA could not last more than thousands of years.

    THE HUMAN GENOME: The decay in the human genome due to multiple slightly harmful mutation each generation is consistent with an origin several thousand years ago. Sanford J. Genetic entropy and the mystery of the genome. This has been confirmed by realistic modeling of population genetics, which shows that genomes are young, in the order of thousands of years.

    Or this one: FOSSILS: Many fossil bones ‘dated’ at many millions of years old are hardly mineralized, if at all. This contradicts the widely believed old age of the earth. Tubes of marine worms ‘dated’ at 550 million years old, that are soft and flexible and apparently composed of the original organic compounds hold the record.

    And finally: DINOSAURS: Dinosaur blood cells, blood vessels, proteins (homoglobin, osteocalcin, collagin, histones) and DNA are not consistent with their supposed more than 65-million-year age, but make more sense if the remains are thousands of years old.

    And there are many more scientific ‘evidences’ that contradict your ‘evidences’.  So no, this is not a contradiction; for even scientists disagree about the age of the earth.

    Cat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    Oh, this one is not very hard. One quote:
    "And a man who injures his countryman – as he has done, so it shall be done to him [namely,] fracture under/for fracture, eye under/for eye, tooth under/for tooth. Just as another person has received injury from him, so it will be given to him." (Lev. 24:19–21).
    Another one:
    "Treat others just as you want to be treated." (Luke 6:31)
    These two seem incompatible, unless one assumes that everyone who injures his countryman wants to be injured - which would be a fairly preposterous assumption. I am open to the idea of this assumption being true (one who holds it would have a hell of a work to do to justify it though), but if it is not true, then the logic is crystal clear: these two statements contradict each other, and both are found in the Bible.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ProudToBeCatholic

    If @Just_Sayin hates Catholics as you propose that does not change anything. I will still commend his good responses to questions because it matters not what his view of me is. If someone makes a good argument, I will gladly congratulate them on it, whether they hate me or not.

    But all he does I preach just like you.

     

    God does have free will. What do you mean? God has free will and I don’t know why you are saying he doesn’t. Maybe expound on that a bit, yes?


    But God knows all possible futures including his own so how can he have free will? God knows what he will do on a Monday in a thousand years time as he knows all ,so how's that " free will" ?

    Also God knew what Hitler , Stalin , Mao were going to do so what exactly is he trying to achieve?

     

    I am not preaching at you; I was trying to provide a good explanation that would satisfy you but I apologize if you took it that way.


    Quoting bible verses at an Atheist is preaching. 


    And I just gave an explanation to, I think it was to @Nomenclature that answers your second statement.


    I'm asking you to address the fact that you believe God watching a child being raped and doing nothing to you is a perfectly  moral decision,  do explain? 

  • @ProudToBeCatholic

    Can you please expound upon this? When did Jesus act out the same crime against God as Lucifer did? Jesus is God and Lucifer was punished for rebellion against God.

     To start every Biblical passage where Jesus claims or some-one said he claims he is man’s way/ only way to GOD. Jesus is not GOD he tries to become GOD while lucifer was punished for attempting also to be GOD.

  • @MayCaesar
    These two seem incompatible, unless one assumes that everyone who injures his countryman wants to be injured - which would be a fairly preposterous assumption. I am open to the idea of this assumption being true (one who holds it would have a hell of a work to do to justify it though), but if it is not true, then the logic is crystal clear: these two statements contradict each other, and both are found in the Bible.

    I see your point but by your creation in linking these two proverbs when we assume however we are also able to say by the connection only a soldier is to be executioner of the deliverance of justice from GOD, which is not a whole truth. Proverb as a simple truth is not a whole truth.


  • ProudtobeCatholic

    Here rests another contradiction of the Bible as the proverbs describe GOD as a whole truth not Jesus as GOD. It is Jesus who doesn’t understand whole truth (GOD) and acts on his own choices to say he is the only path form man towards his own whole truth and others must follow his documented proverb. MayCaesar and other are following a principle that proverbs are to be moved to create contradiction, but it is they who make the contradiction. I see contradiction of the Bible that only exists in each proverb so as by GOD I am not the contradictions creator.


  • jackjack 447 Pts   -  

    A common irrational claim from Atheists is that the Bible contains contradictions. I have created this thread to answer these 'contradictions' to the best of my ability. 
    Hello P:

    Love thy neighbor vs  “For the good of society, transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely,” **

    ** Michael J. Knowles, CPAC this weekend

    excon
  • NomenclatureNomenclature 1245 Pts   -   edited March 2023
    @jack

    I declare thee a Jew if thy mother was a Jew Vs I'm an atheist who doesn't believe in the Bible, but it says I'm a Jew so I must be a Jew.


  • jackjack 447 Pts   -  

    Hello pooch:

    You're like a little doggy OBSESSIVELY following me around just WAITING for me to throw the ball.  K.  I threw it, and you fetched.. 

    Good boy..

    excon
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 695 Pts   -  
    @ProudToBeCatholic

    As an Atheist, I will say contradictions are in the Bible, but contradictions are everywhere; I've absolutely made contradictions myself before.

    I know that this isn't exactly entirely within the Bible, but more within the idea of Christianity as it progresses, but I would like to point this out:

    "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point of it has become accountable for all of it" James 2:10

    The line above shows that the Abrahamic God treats all sins equally to each other no matter their severity.

    Now, in Dante's Inferno, there are different Circles of Hell, all with their unique traits and all with their unique "ways" to get there. Murderers (who violate the 3rd Cardinal Sin, wrath) are treated the same as Usurys (those who have high-interest rates). Both are placed in the 7th Circle, and gluttons (who violate the 6th Cardinal Sin) are put in the 3rd Circle.

    This kind of attitude of treatings all sins differently persists today where "What is a true sin" changes as time goes on. Some will treat, let's say, blindness as a sin and most will not. Most will say homosexuality is a sin, and some will not. It all depends on how you interpret it.

    Christianity as a religion isn't bad, but as a group with major divisions, it ends up being all wack and rife with conflict.
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    MayCaesar,

    Oh, this one is not very hard. One quote: "And a man who injures his countryman – as he has done, so it shall be done to him [namely,] fracture under/for fracture, eye under/for eye, tooth under/for tooth. Just as another person has received injury from him, so it will be given to him." (Lev. 24:19–21). Another one: "Treat others just as you want to be treated." (Luke 6:31) These two seem incompatible, unless one assumes that everyone who injures his countryman wants to be injured - which would be a fairly preposterous assumption. I am open to the idea of this assumption being true (one who holds it would have a hell of a work to do to justify it though), but if it is not true, then the logic is crystal clear: these two statements contradict each other, and both are found in the Bible.

    You are not looking at this passage the correct way. Notice that the verse says to treat others just as you want to be treated. That does not mean people will treat others the way they want to be treated. Jesus is just giving a rule of life we are to live by. This is a command, but that does not mean we will always follow it. I do not believe somebody who injures someone wants to be injured but the passage says ‘Treat others how you want to be treated’, not ‘Everybody treats others how they want to be treated’ or ‘The way you treat others is the way you want to be treated. I hope this helps!

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Dee,

    But all he does I preach just like you.

    I am sorry if we have preached at you, but remember that this thread was created for me and other Christians to disprove alleged ‘contradictions’ in the Bible so it is a given that there will be some extent of preaching going on here in our responses. I will keep that in mind and attempt to keep it at a minimum. I apologize for that.

     

    But God knows all possible futures including his own so how can he have free will? God knows what he will do on a Monday in a thousand years time as he knows all ,so how's that " free will" ? Also God knew what Hitler , Stalin , Mao were going to do so what exactly is he trying to achieve?

    God has free will because He is ultimately in control of everything. He is limited by nothing and therefore nothing can bind His will. God is pure, timeless existence from which all other existence flows, and therefore nothing that flows from Him can restrain Him, for He created it under Himself. You are treating God as if He is in time and looks ahead at what He will do, but that is simply not the case, for He transcends time itself. He looks at what we will do and intervenes accordingly and in that sense, yes He knows what He will do in the future, according to our time. Consider that there may be other galaxies, planets, even possibly dimensions out there that have not yet been discovered. There is nothing in science to say otherwise and some would even suggest there are indeed these things. It is possible that time is measured differently in those dimensions and the life forms that may be there may operate on completely separate rules of gravity, physics, etc. The important thing to keep in mind is that God transcends all of these and is not bound by any of them. Therefore, God is interacting with us in our own times, not His, for He is not bound by time.

    And God did indeed know what Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and all other evil dicatators were going to do but because He allows free will, He allowed them to follow their wicked desires, but they will be punished for it in the end. If a wicked man does not turn to God in repentance, He will suffer the eternal consequences for all of his deeds.

     

    I'm asking you to address the fact that you believe God watching a child being raped and doing nothing to you is a perfectly  moral decision,  do explain?

    And I answered that. God allows free will and therefore He is not responsible for anything we do. It is our fault because He has placed us here to give us the choice to follow Him or not. If we refuse to obey and live wickedly, that is our fault, not His. Because He sees it happen does not make Him immoral, for He enacts punishment for that individual, whether in this life or the life to come. He is still just, for they will be punished for their deeds. God is not sitting there not doing anything. He greives when people do wickedly and even becomes angry. However, because He is patient, He waits until the full measure of their guilt has piled up, as He says concerning the Amorites and the Babylonian kingdom in the end times.


    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @John_C_87

    John C 87,

    To start every Biblical passage where Jesus claims or some-one said he claims he is man’s way/ only way to GOD. Jesus is not GOD he tries to become GOD while lucifer was punished for attempting also to be GOD.

    So, are you saying that Jesus is not God, but He tried to make Himself God? I don’t want to preach at you, but the Bible does claim Jesus is God, therefore God cannot attempt to become God, for He is already so, right? If you would like, I can make my case for why I believe the Bible very clearly teaches Jesus is God, but that is up to you.

     

    Here rests another contradiction of the Bible as the proverbs describe GOD as a whole truth not Jesus as GOD. It is Jesus who doesn’t understand whole truth (GOD) and acts on his own choices to say he is the only path form man towards his own whole truth and others must follow his documented proverb. MayCaesar and other are following a principle that proverbs are to be moved to create contradiction, but it is they who make the contradiction. I see contradiction of the Bible that only exists in each proverb so as by GOD I am not the contradictions creator.

    Okay, for some reason, your posts are really confusing to me, but I will answer what I think you are trying to say and tell me if I am not addressing the ‘contradiction’ you proposed.

    You are saying that the Bible describes God as ‘whole truth’ and I agree with that. But then you say it does not describe Jesus as God because it defines God as ‘whole truth’? Well, if Jesus was God, wouldn’t He then be considered ‘whole truth’? He is ‘whole truth’ who took on flesh and became a man to lead us to Himself as God. And this relates to the verse I think you are referencing where Jesus says people must follow Him to find ‘whole truth’, which is God. Jesus as God said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.” So supposing that Jesus was God, wouldn’t He be correct in stating that He is the truth, for God is the very essence of ‘whole truth’? I think your argument hinges on your belief that Jesus is not God, but by this logic you have provided in saying the very definition of God, according to the Bible, is ‘whole truth’, then this claim of Jesus’ would make perfect sense when He says “I am the truth”, right? And that would give Him the moral authority as God, ‘whole truth’, to state that we must keep His commands in order to enter heaven.

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Jack

    Jack,

    Hello P:

    Love thy neighbor vs  “For the good of society, transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely,” **

    ** Michael J. Knowles, CPAC this weekend

    Excon

    What do you define eradicate as? What are the measures being proposed to eradicate such a thing as transgenderism? I do believe that transgenderism as an ideology, or however you would like to define it, should indeed be eradicated, but not the people who have fallen into it. If someone is trans, they should not be eradicated, but that does not mean I will not speak the truth to my neighbor in love. The Bible says that love rejoices in the truth, therefore if I am loving my neighbor, I will tell him the truth about his ways, as defined from the giver of morals and the very essence of all truth, God. Hope this helps!

    Cat
  • ProudToBeCatholicProudToBeCatholic 117 Pts   -  
    @Luigi7255

    Luigi7255,

    "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point of it has become accountable for all of it" James 2:10

    The line above shows that the Abrahamic God treats all sins equally to each other no matter their severity.

    Now, in Dante's Inferno, there are different Circles of Hell, all with their unique traits and all with their unique "ways" to get there. Murderers (who violate the 3rd Cardinal Sin, wrath) are treated the same as Usurys (those who have high-interest rates). Both are placed in the 7th Circle, and gluttons (who violate the 6th Cardinal Sin) are put in the 3rd Circle.

    This kind of attitude of treatings all sins differently persists today where "What is a true sin" changes as time goes on. Some will treat, let's say, blindness as a sin and most will not. Most will say homosexuality is a sin, and some will not. It all depends on how you interpret it.

    Great question! I would like to point out a couple of things in your statement. First off, James 2:10 is not saying all sins are equal in the sense that they will be punished equally. He is just saying that if you break one part of the law you have broken the entire law. I like to use the analogy of a chain. Think of the law as a chain with many links hanging over a pit of lava and you are hanging onto it. If you break even one of those links, you have broken the chain and will tumble into the lava, no? In the same way, if those who are under the law break even one commandment of the law, they are guilty of breaking the entire law, for their outcome will be the same; death. I honestly do not know if some sins will be punished with worse punishments than others cause I don’t know that there are any Scriptures to support it, but I do know that the Bible says Judas went to his own place and Peter describes some people as having the blackest of darkness reserved for them, but beyond that, I cannot say for sure.

    Now, I do not hold to Dante’s Inferno as necessarily true. I have never studied Dante’s works but by what you have provided, I think I would probably not accept that reasoning since I have no proof hell is such an organized place as he is proposing.

    I’m really not sure what the contradiction is here though. Are you saying that because sins are treated differently today, James cannot be right when he says whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point of it has become accountable for(or broken) all of it? Well, I believe in objective morality. I believe that the morals written on our hearts and contained in the word of God are what should lead our lives and therefore, even if we human beings dispute about what is a sin and what is not, morality still stays the same, it is just our perception of what is morality that is incorrect or skewed. God is not dependent upon our perception of His laws, and therefore, His laws remain no matter how much our beliefs about them, may change. I hope I answered the question according to what you were asking.

    Luigi7255Cat
  • @ProudToBeCatholic

    So, are you saying that Jesus is not God

    The strings of proverb in the Bible describes GOD as a whoel truth.

     but He tried to make Himself God? yes.

     I don’t want to preach at you, but the Bible does claim Jesus is God. No the Bible decribes his remarks and witnesses who repeat his remarks.

     therefore God cannot attempt to become God, for He is already so, right? No...The Bible is proverbs.

    If you would like, I can make my case for why I believe the Bible very clearly teaches Jesus is God, but that is up to you. 

    Do you understand the contradiction created in truth and not whole truth? You are not proving proverb describes Jesus as GOD you are describing how Jesus as a man didn't commit the same sin as and Angel before GOD as a man.

    You are saying that the Bible describes God as ‘whole truth’ and I agree with that. But then you say it does not describe Jesus as God because it defines God as ‘whole truth’? Well, if Jesus was God, wouldn’t He then be considered ‘whole truth’? He is ‘whole truth’ who took on flesh and became a man to lead us to Himself as God. And this relates to the verse I think you are referencing where Jesus says people must follow Him to find ‘whole truth’, which is God. Jesus as God said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.” So supposing that Jesus was God, wouldn’t He be correct in stating that He is the truth, for God is the very essence of ‘whole truth’? I think your argument hinges on your belief that Jesus is not God, but by this logic you have provided in saying the very definition of God, according to the Bible, is ‘whole truth’, then this claim of Jesus’ would make perfect sense when He says “I am the truth”, right? And that would give Him the moral authority as God, ‘whole truth’, to state that we must keep His commands in order to enter heaven.

    No, for simply said at best man is only a truth in life not whole truth...To simplify the answer again, GOD is whole truth and whole truth does not die, whole truth is one of very few things which remains timeless, the supreme power of whole truth is only obscured by proverbs. You will be describing Jesus as breaking the third Commandment. You can attempt to teach but please keep in mind Lucifer was cast from heaven by GOD to be then able to act upon the world as man or women.


  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ProudToBeCatholic


    You admit God has free will then post up a load of unrelated nonsense, so tell me without posting up  another sermon how he has free will If he knows all his future choices?

    Can you also address if God knows exactly what humans are going to do whats the point in playing this ridiculous game where he knows before you're born how you're going to behave?

    Also you claim God is angry at child rapists yet doesn't intervene yet he wiped out the world's population in the flood because he was angry, hows that work?

    You claim watching children being raped when you could save them is a perfectly good and moral decision once you're God,  would you say the same if it was your daughter?

    You claim that God will punish the rapist which is not true if the rapist repents on his death bed he's forgiven yet the child is Hell bound if she's curses God for not saving her , that's what you call "justice" , seriously?


  • @Dee

    Why do you always ask the person who cannot give rational representation to GOD, about GOD?
    You fear whole truth, you fear GOD and rightfully so.


  • jackjack 447 Pts   -  

    What do you define eradicate as? What are the measures being proposed to eradicate such a thing as transgenderism? I do believe that transgenderism as an ideology, or however you would like to define it, should indeed be eradicated, but not the people who have fallen into it.
    Hello P:

    So, you think it's just people TALKING about transgenderism, huh??   Nahhh...  I think people are actually DOING it.

    Pursuant to Merriam Webster, eradicate means to do away with it completely as if by pulling it up by the roots.  By any measure eradicate means to kill 'em all. 


    excon

  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 695 Pts   -  
    @ProudToBeCatholic

    Exactly my point.

    I do agree Dante's Inferno isn't necessarily true, and I did state it's more a contradiction about Christianity FROM the Bible and how modern-day Christians have strayed from its words that are supposedly the true words of the Abrahamic God. As for contradictions within the Bible itself, I'll have to analyze most of it, and (if I'm being honest) I honestly don't really have the time to research the Bible. But, as with pretty much every written work, it will have contradictions; it's pretty much a law of writing books.
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
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