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"Sin: The Path to Excellence"

Debate Information

"Sin: The Path to Excellence"

Sin has long been associated with moral failure, but what if we reframe it? I see sin as something essential to human growth—a necessary part of striving for excellence.

At its core, sin simply means “missing the mark.” It’s not about wickedness but about falling short of an ideal. Christianity and even Gnostic traditions acknowledge this idea in different ways. The concept of felix culpa—the “happy fault”—suggests that sin is necessary for God’s plan. Whether or not one believes in the supernatural, the wisdom of this idea is clear: missing the mark is a natural part of aiming for something greater.

To evolve, both as individuals and as a species, we must take risks and inevitably fall short. This process—of setting goals, failing, and trying again—is what drives progress. Every moment of “sin” is evidence that we’re pushing ourselves beyond our comfort zones and striving toward our best possible selves. This is what we do, consciously or unconsciously, at every point in our lives.

Even competition, often seen as divisive, is tied to this idea. Competition highlights our shortcomings, creating a contrast between where we are and where we want to be. It creates leaders, innovators, and excellence by encouraging us to improve. Of course, competition produces losers, and those losses can feel like failures or even evoke the idea of "evil." But in truth, every loss is an opportunity—a moment to learn, adapt, and grow stronger.

This is why I celebrate sin—not as a call to moral failure but as an embrace of imperfection and growth. Without sin, without missing the mark, we would have no benchmarks for greatness. There would be no leaders to inspire us, no innovators to challenge us, and no progress to drive humanity forward.

I don’t believe in the supernatural, but I see wisdom in the way ancient scribes wove this idea into their teachings. Sin, in its truest sense, is not something to avoid but something to engage with thoughtfully. It is the evidence of our striving, our courage to try, and our commitment to evolve.

So, I invite you: aim high. Take your shot. Miss the mark. Become a sinner in the best way possible. In doing so, you’ll not only create a better version of yourself but also contribute to the collective excellence of humanity.

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  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


    GnosticChristian
  • maxxmaxx 1200 Pts   -  
     no matter how one looks at it, no matter how one sugar coats it, jesus was not white, and you are also believing in a book that was written for and by jews and their descendants.  jesus was also a jew. @marke
    GnosticChristian
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @maxx
    What difference does the color of Jesus' skin make, except to racists?
  • maxxmaxx 1200 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    nothing. i am saying Christianity is nothing more than a Jewish belief that Christians changed to suit their own interpretation of the bible.  People today are white washing the bible to suit the world today not caring about the actual truth of the bible which was written be early Hebrews.   yet now we have Christians claiming that the jews are wrong in their religious beliefs, which is ironic, because they are the ones who wrote the bible.  that is like if i created an alphabet, and over a period of time others state that  they will change several of the letters because i got it wrong.   what gives Christians the right to tell the people who wrote the bible that their beliefs are incorrect   @marke
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 6855 Pts   -  
    I think humanity has had enough of Jesus' "gifts" for eternity... Endless wars, theocratic dictatorships, churches brainwashing people into believing in a world view outdated by over 3 millennia... F your precious Jesus.
    FactfinderGnosticChristian
  • marke said:
    @GnosticChristian

    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    ================

    Have you sinned?

    Have you sinned and if so, why are you alive? Is your God not rather delinquent with his pay?

    As to Jesus Christ. Who is that? 

    Where in scriptures is any Jesus elected to Christ?

    Even if you could find that, the whole messianic notion of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty is fully immoral and unlawful to any decent judge.

    Step up to what you deserve and stop wanting to put your just punishments onto an innocent victim.
  • maxx said:
     no matter how one looks at it, no matter how one sugar coats it, jesus was not white, and you are also believing in a book that was written for and by jews and their descendants.  jesus was also a jew. @marke

    How can Jesus be a Jew without a Jewish father?

    If a descendent of King David had sired Jesus as foretold, he would be a Jew.

    Scriptures say that Yahweh sired Jesus and that makes him at best a half breed chimera God.

    That is a Jesus looking for a real father so that he can say he was not born from bestiality and the mixing of two species.

    The God species and ours.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @maxx
    Uncivilized American savages who share your disrespect for God and Christianity burned down more than a billion dollars worth of property in 2020 in support of the godless candidacy of the ungodly Biden/Harris duo.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar
    Your longing for the old days of paganism and idol worship is not healthy for America because it generates uncivilized behaviors.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    You misunderstand.  God does not want any sinner to die in his sins which is why Jesus died for the sins of the world so that whosever would come to Him on His terms could be saved.
    GnosticChristian
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 6855 Pts   -  

    What, behaviors like beating children up? Wait...
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar
    Indoctrinating kids into atheism and ungodliness in schools has led to the out-of-control violence, looting, assaults, murders, voting fraud, baby-killing, hatred, racism, and so many more evils we are seeing today among young people.
  • marke said:
    @GnosticChristian

    You misunderstand.  God does not want any sinner to die in his sins which is why Jesus died for the sins of the world so that whosever would come to Him on His terms could be saved.
    How can you know what an unknowable God knows?

    Or is the Bible lying to us?
  • maxxmaxx 1200 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    are you joling everyone knows jesus was a jew. as well what does that have to do with the bible being written bz those who lived by the Judaism religion. you are the ones who have disrespect for the bible for you changed  it by claiming those who wrote the bible were wrong in their own beliefs. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/bornliveddied.html   ; all his disciples were jews and saul, paul did not create Christianity. disrespect my foot. people like you are the ones changing the bible from its original state. look at what you are saying. you do not follow Judaism even though they wrote the bible. it is obvious that those who wrote the bible knew what they believed and here you are telling them they are wrong.   @marke ; also i know a lot of atheist who are more moral than many christains.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    God does not lie and the Bible is true, in spite of the failures of sinners to properly comprehend truth.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    You have weird theological views.
  • maxxmaxx 1200 Pts   -  
    the entire bible is based upon Judaism  not christainanity. . @marke
  • Jules1Jules1 79 Pts   -  
    @marke
    What is 'civilized' to you? The definition you seem to give it is "not my religion". One cannot call a practice uncivilized or civilized, because it ignores the culture built up around it over centuries.
  • FactfinderFactfinder 1848 Pts   -  
    @marke

    You have weird untrue theological views.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 6855 Pts   -  
    marke said:

    Indoctrinating kids into atheism and ungodliness in schools has led to the out-of-control violence, looting, assaults, murders, voting fraud, baby-killing, hatred, racism, and so many more evils we are seeing today among young people.
    "Indoctrinating into atheism"? Please tell me about how it works. I pop out of my mom's vagina and immediately think, "Wow, thank god for this amazing world I just entered!" And then later my school teacher tells me that my initial after-birth instinct was wrong and there was no god?
  • Jules1Jules1 79 Pts   -  
    @marke
    Every crime you have mentioned is overall going down, and racism is the lowest in recent generations, though hate speech is rising due to radicalization on the right (cause of a certain orange man you seem to love so much, but this isn't about him).
  • FactfinderFactfinder 1848 Pts   -  
    @marke

    God does not lie and the Bible is true, in spite of the failures of sinners to properly comprehend truth.

    What god? And what does your inability to comprehend the bible have to do with it? Can you produce this vile imaginary elf god or are you just blowing smoke threw your hells butt?
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @Jules1

    Uncivilized behaviors include looting, arson, assaults, murders, lying, racism, hatred and such like, which the Bible declares are practiced commonly by sinners, not saints.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    Teaching kids to accept and embrace decadence while instructing them that there is no God is child abuse by leftist indoctrination.
    GnosticChristian
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    @Jules1

    Democrat -generated racist black hatred of whites is on the increase.
    GnosticChristian
  • marke said:
    @MayCaesar

    Teaching kids to accept and embrace decadence while instructing them that there is no God is child abuse by leftist indoctrination.
    What exactly do you mean by decadence?

    What can be more immoral than the anti LGBTQ+ who have to discriminate against their own children and kin without a just cause? 

    They put sex and gender as a value above love, while the better adjusted will put love at the top.

    Where do you put it?
  • marke said:
    @Jules1

    Democrat -generated racist black hatred of whites is on the increase.
    Why?

    Do they think the Dems are running the for blacks only prisons all over your non-segregationist country? I thought that that corrupt prison for profit thing was all Repubs.

    I am learning more of Dem hypocrisy and collusion with the right though. Jim Crow and all that.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    Decadence describes a whole range of ungodly behaviors, including immoral sex, sexual promiscuity, adultery, fornication, sexual perversions and more.
    GnosticChristian
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 311 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    marke said:
    @GnosticChristian

    Decadence describes a whole range of ungodly behaviors, including immoral sex, sexual promiscuity, adultery, fornication, sexual perversions and more.
    Strange that the words "consenting adults" and "love" never came to your mind.

    That aside, hypocrite, you are not defining your word properly. You have added way too many notions to it.

    Go find any dictionary that agrees with your inflated and definition. 

    If you reply, do try English, and being clear about just what you are hating, in your fellow God's image created brethren.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 6855 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    marke said:

    Teaching kids to accept and embrace decadence while instructing them that there is no God is child abuse by leftist indoctrination.
    Let me shock you: I am not a "leftist", yet I have always been atheist. I grew up believing in individual values and voluntary economical activities, something, you know, your Founding Fathers used to promote - and it was natural to me that the only way to be a free individual is to not bow to any authority, let alone imaginary.

    I think the real indoctrination comes from you authoritarians, "leftist" and "rightist" alike: believing that you have the right to force your personal values onto others. That if you believe in an ancient fantasy creature, then so should your children. Proper education should burn this nonsense with fire.

    The idea that by teaching my kids to look at all ideologies critically I am "indoctrinating" them into "leftism" is something that can only be born from living in one's crazy echo-chamber. Even hardcore Christian apologists like Jordan Peterson know better than to push this kind of arguments.
    GnosticChristian
  • Jules1Jules1 79 Pts   -  
    @marke
    Excuse me? I don't know if you know this, but it is white people who have historically participated in racism and violent forms of racism. That trend continues today and to say "The Democrats are the real racists" is a patently insane. What you call anti-white racism is actually called dismantling decades of systemic racism.
    GnosticChristian
  • maxxmaxx 1200 Pts   -  
    i am still waiting on an answer. what gives christains the right to change the bible to suit their views when the bible was not written by christains  @marke
    GnosticChristian
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    The reason consenting adultery is wrong is because adultery harms innocent victims.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar
     
    I did not call you a leftist and yet leftist atheists believe anyone who disagrees with their hard-headed positions are trying to 'force their opinions down their throats.'  I don't think atheistic leftists understand the ideas of non-violent debates and tolerance of others.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @Jules1
    There is more evidence of black racist hatred of whites today than there is of white hatred of blacks, in spite of the black racist erroneous assumption that most whites are racists, which is a racist thought in itself.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    The KJV is as accurate translation of the original manuscripts into English available today.  Changes to God's Word are something corrupt theologians foolishly do to Scriptures.
  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 311 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    Jules1 said:
    @marke
    Excuse me? I don't know if you know this, but it is white people who have historically participated in racism and violent forms of racism. That trend continues today and to say "The Democrats are the real racists" is a patently insane. What you call anti-white racism is actually called dismantling decades of systemic racism.
    Indeed.

    Ask any native in Canada and the U.S. if they had and continue to have systematic racism practiced on them.

    F B I will say, start with land back. Get your vile flag and crosses off our land. F B I is F n Big Indian.
  • FactfinderFactfinder 1848 Pts   -  
    @marke

    The KJV is as accurate translation of the original manuscripts into English available today.  Changes to God's Word are something corrupt theologians foolishly do to Scriptures.

    That makes your elf god the biggest sinner of all according to the KJV. Wish you had a brain?

    Isaiah 45
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things

    Pin page

    Debunking Christianity Rampant Idiocy in Christian Belief





  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 311 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    maxx said:
    i am still waiting on an answer. what gives christains the right to change the bible to suit their views when the bible was not written by christains  @marke
    This is a truth.

    The Bible was written, (more like compiled), primarily to end Chrestianty, which consisted of Greek and esoteric Jews who called themselves Chrestians. Christianity plagiarized a lot of their writings when they went to an inferior belief in the supernatural Jesus.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    Those racists who claimed Americans were racist for not voting for Kamala displayed their own intolerant widespread racist ignorance.
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    @Factfinder
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    A careful study of the English word "evil" translated from the Hebrew in that verse will reveal the many different definitions of the word as found in the OT, including these definitions:
    harm, hurt, mischief, distress, grief, sorrow, trouble, amd more.  Claims that the word means "sin" are wrong, especially since that Hebrew word translated "evil" in this verse is never translated as "sin" in the Bible.



  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    You failed to mention the Messoretic or Septuagint texts.
  • FactfinderFactfinder 1848 Pts   -  
    marke said:
    @Factfinder
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    A careful study of the English word "evil" translated from the Hebrew in that verse will reveal the many different definitions of the word as found in the OT, including these definitions:
    harm, hurt, mischief, distress, grief, sorrow, trouble, amd more.  Claims that the word means "sin" are wrong, especially since that Hebrew word translated "evil" in this verse is never translated as "sin" in the Bible.



    I know, far more than you. That's why "evil" as in sin is the correct interpretation. "Sin" is a creation of your elf god as your elf god books says, all things created were created by it. That's why only foolish people believe in fairytale elf gods, they all are narcissistic and reflect human nature, nothing divine or eternally benevolent. Yes or no, did sin exist before god created? Answer, no. So god created evil according to your own elf book. Unless you believe causing harm, distress, and hurt to others is not evil or sinful? For no good reason except to feed a god complex. Wish you had a brain?
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder
    I am not persuaded that the word "evil" means "sin" since there is not a single reason to assume that is true.
  • FactfinderFactfinder 1848 Pts   -  
    @marke

    I am not persuaded that the word "evil" means "sin" since there is not a single reason to assume that is true.

    Why would I care if you're persuaded or not? There is not a single reason to believe your elf book is true or your elf god is real yet you childishly believe. Of course truth, reality and logic will escape you.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 6855 Pts   -  
    marke said:
     
    I did not call you a leftist and yet leftist atheists believe anyone who disagrees with their hard-headed positions are trying to 'force their opinions down their throats.'  I don't think atheistic leftists understand the ideas of non-violent debates and tolerance of others.
    Well, they are still learning the ropes: they have been at it for just a little over two centuries. Theistic royalists have a lot to teach them, with millennia of experience and whatnot...
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    God has been giving wisdom to His saints for thousands of years.
  • maxxmaxx 1200 Pts   -   edited December 2024
    i highly suggest you study your own religious history foo you are incorrect that kjv  matches the original books of the bible. also, the entire bible is meant to be based upon the beliefs of Judaism. the bible is not a Christian bible, because Christianity did not begin until long after jesus died.  all the word christain means is in Christ.   all people like you have done is take a set of books written for and by people who had nothing to do with what christianity is, and change those books so you can pretend it was written for you. You are very lacking in knowledge about the bible history. for instance, the words forever, eternity and everlasting does not appear in the greek bible. . the word actually translated to the word eon, or a very long time. so according to the original works, those who go to hell are there for a long time, not forever. even saul(paul) says we are redeemed by fire. of course early christain church leaders did not like the idea, because it was not much of a deterrent  for people to be good if they will eventually be redeemed anyway, so they changed the translation.  One of the main problems with todays Christians, is they look at the bible we have today and think that is the correct version while others are wrong, without doing any research at all.  @marke ;
  • Jules1Jules1 79 Pts   -  
    @marke
    Please, give me a source. Did black people march on Charlottesville screaming "We will not be replaced."? Was it black people who led justice departments that disproportionately sentenced black people for more time than white people who committed the same crime? Was it black people who bombed out and massacred the black equivalent of Wall Street and did not sentence anyone involved? Of course, you are not at fault for the horrible things people born before you did, but denying it and claiming that white people are the REAL most discriminated group is quite a racist trope.
    Factfinder
  • markemarke 661 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    I don't believe you have been educated about ancient manuscripts and the proper translations into English from those manuscripts.
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