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illegal immigration debate

Debate Information

illegal immigration debate


This debate Intensified in the United States since Donald Trump became President. There are estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the US, and controversy around the inflow and outflow of that population is at an all time high.

 On DebateIsland, there is a dedicated section on immigration at
http://www.DebateIsland.com/categories/immigration

The most popular topic has been if the wall should be build.
There are good resources on this topic of illegal immigration at http://immigration.procon.org
And
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

The big 2 topics part of the debate include
1) the wall
2) deportations

There is also a lot of confusion if those supporting anti-illegal immigration are racists or act anti-humane. Many of the proponents of deportations clarify that they are not against immigration, but against illegal immigration.

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  1. Live Poll

    Illegal immigration debate - what side are you on?

    27 votes
    1. I support anti-illegal immigration measures (build the wall, deport illegal immigrants)
      48.15%
    2. I am against anti-illegal immigration measures (no wall, no deportations)
      44.44%
    3. I am partially supportive
        7.41%
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    Arguments


  • islander507islander507 194 Pts   -  
    I am in full support of President Trump decisive actions on this illegal immigration debate.
    if we are to fix the root cause of the issue we need to address both the existing undocumented immigrants and the inflow of new ones.
    Donald Trump's plan to build the wall will sigificantly limit the inflow, and his deportations (strarting with those who have criminal records) will improve the outflow.

    Trump is taking this illegal immigration debate, and making it real.  That is much more than we can say for Obama administration, who made the problem much worse in his 8 year of tenure as the President.
  • ale5ale5 263 Pts   -  
    I am against Trump anti-immigration policies. 
    1) deportations are too ambiguous and are not realistic nor scalable for 11 million undocumented immigrants, where many of them are entrenched here with kids.
    2) The Wall is just too expensive at the time we are struggling with major debt and financial issues

    BaconToes
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 234 Pts   -  
    Trump immigration policy is not a policy but an open discrimination.  
    I don't support it.
    undocumented immigrants is a much more complex problem than just getting thrown out without consideration. However they got here, we need to be more considered given the size of illegal immigrant population. 11 million is a hugh number.
    the wall will cost too much money, and likely will just fill pockets of Trump's construction friends. I would vote for the wall if it would be free, but it's far from that.

    WhyTrump - a good question
  • inc4tinc4t 186 Pts   -  
    This horrifying teen rape case exposes all that's wrong with the

    illegal immigration debate 

    it shows strong argument for the Anti-illegal immigration side

    horrific story of how a 14-year-old girl identified as the victim was walking down the Rockville High School hallway when she was forcibly dragged into a bathroom stall by 18-year-old Henry Sanchez and 17-year-old Jose Montano. 2 illegal immigrants.

    Last March, two illegal immigrants from Honduras repeatedly raped a 12-year-old girl.

    Adding insult to injury, the Montgomery County schools board’s website offers a Spanish-language page affirming that illegals should feel “safe and welcome” in their classrooms – adding that illegals have a constitutional right to a public school education. 

    The consolation and assurance to the recent 14-year-old victim, her family, and citizens whose sense of security has once again been shaken by illegal-immigrant crime? A letter home to parents.

    https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/03/this-horrifying-teen-rape-case-exposes-all-thats-wrong-with-the-illegal-immigration-debate#sthash.YdDCH1O9.dpuf

  • Odin1Odin1 18 Pts   -  
    Ever since President Reagan gave amnesty to 2 million illegal immigrants; he made it very clear the border was to be protected and the Federal Immigration law was to be enforced, but our government let us down over and over again. Now, look at where we are at; we have over 11 million illegal immigrants and who knows how many have committed a crime against US Citizens or people who are here illegally or legally to be come a citizen.

    It is very frustration living in a State and City who thinks they are above enforcing Federal Immigration Laws; however, if choose to break a law we pay for the crime and so should each of these politicians think they can just pick an choose which laws to abide by. Too many people are being hurt and they just protect these illegal immigrants over actual people who are trying to abide by the law. They say they are protecting all of their citizens, but they are not. We are a nation of immigrants; however, we are nations of laws.

    I heard what happened to the 14 year old girl who was raped and one of the guys was an illegal immigrant - he needs to be deported. Families have lost loved ones and had their families broken up by illegal immigrants who murdered a son, a daughter, a sister, a father, a mother, and so forth. Yes, they are so concerned about breaking up families where an illegal immigrant committed a serious crime? I just don't get it!

    It will be difficult to decide who will be deported after the illegal immigrants who committed crimes. I personally think, the Federal Government will need to find out how long they have been here (like more than 8 years) and they have to pay a fine, get a green card to get a job, and they have to work to become a citizen. I also believe if they do not want to give up their allegiance to their country than they can take their family and go back home. This is what people do when they become a citizen and it is in our constitution.

    The wall needs to be built and the border needs to be enforced...this needs to happen first before starting to deport unless we know for sure someone did commit a crime.

    I love my country and I would want people who immigrate here love this country as well and assimilate to our values and culture; however, they can definitely have their culture as well. America is about customs.
        
    aaronginc4t
  • ale5ale5 263 Pts   -  
    @Odin1 , while I agree it is horrible what happened in these specific cases, at the same time we cannot use these isolated examples to make villains out of all illegal immigrants.  That is only one side of the illegal immigration debate, and most rapes and murders happen by US citizens.  
    I also agree that we should deport these specific criminals who were involved in these violent crimes.  We can also debate if Trump's campaign of initial deportations of undocumented immigrants with criminal records is warranted. I personally argue that it is not.

    Mass Deportation of 11 million undocumented immigrants though is a much more complex topic than something we can influence with isolated cases like these.

    I know that many Trump supporters object to Media unfairly attacking Trump, but in this case anti-immigration supporters are unfairly generalizing 11 million people via just a few bad apples.
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • love2debatelove2debate 186 Pts   -  
    @ale5 ,I disagre.  @Odin1 , I agree with your position.

    the key point is that the illegal immigrants are not assimilated in US, they still live in their country, their language, and they are not part of the United States.  They are a tax burden to the tax payers, get free healthcare, education, and when you read about such violent crimes, it is must wrong.
    All illegal immigrants with any sort of criminal records should be deported immediately, consistent with Trump deportations. Yes, there will be some noise, but that is better than hearing cases like in this article.
    The rest should be deportd back over the next few years. They key is that it is illegal immigration and to odin1 point - while our country has been built on immigrants, the due were paid and it was part of legal immigration.  I would like to remind others, that it is an 

    illegal immigration debate

    not just 

    immigration debate

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @ale5 My main concern isn't about crimes committed by certain illegal aliens, it's that the illegals coming over the border aren't assimilating into our culture.  Instead, most of them are settling near the border creating a borderland, like Gaza and the West Bank, or Bosnia, or Kashmir.  They're creating a large area of divided loyalty.  When other immigrants came to this country, they left their old culture behind and became Americans.  By-and-large, the Mexicans in particular don't need to do that.  They can settle right near the border of their home country and usurp the culture that's already there. 
  • ale5ale5 263 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta , that part of your argument I agree with you. The issue is that they are not assimilating and are a burden to our society in many ways.
    i am saying that given we have 11 million undocumented immigrants we cannot just treat them as animals and need to have a humane strategy to deal with the issue.  I like an approach that combines some deportations after thorough vetting of criminal activity, and at the same time a path to citizenship, rewarding the right behavior.  For such a complex problem, a single-sided view on just deporting everyone is inhumane.
    I am also not against of concept of the wall if it will be effective, but I just don't think it will be and will cost too much for the tax payers 

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • agsragsr 881 Pts   -  
    I think that @CYDdharta makes a great point regarding essentially expanding their territory with having illegal population take over US territory. If they don't pay taxes and dont adapt our culture then it might as well be mexico just north of the mexico border.
    illegal immigration debate has so many shades, but in general I am biased towards a proactive action-oriented approach.  
    Live Long and Prosper
  • natbaronsnatbarons 133 Pts   -  
    Challenge

    Con

    Immigrants deserve a chance in the US, even if they came here illegally. Imagine if you were an illegal immigrant who has the worst life in your own country. The illegal immigrants can help pay taxes and can provide their services. Illegal immigrants can also give the US information. For example, let's say a member of ISIS decides to quit when he found out what ISIS was doing. If he came to the US, he could give the US info on where ISIS is heading next or their attack plans. So illegal immigrants can be useful for info if they come from an enemy nation.
  • agsragsr 881 Pts   -  
    @natbarons
    surely unconditionally saying that 100% of illegal Immigrants are not useful is wrong, so I agree with some of your examples.
    That said, the fact is that mostly illegal immigrants don't pay taxes and 11 million undocumented immigrants is a burden on US economic and social system. 

    Live Long and Prosper
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  

    @natbarons ; Imagine if you came here and brought the worst of your native country with you, as all too many illegals do; for instance;

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/22/high-school-rape-in-maryland-shows-need-for-toughe/

    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/21/authorities-raid-suspected-cockfighting-site-in-detroit/

    Don't US citizens deserve protection from people who don't respect our laws?

  • joecavalryjoecavalry 430 Pts   -  
    I totally agree with @CYDdharta  's amazing point. 
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • WhyTrumpWhyTrump 234 Pts   -  
    @natbarons , I agree with you.  There are many benefits to immigrants, and illegal immigrants with appropriate path can become valuable members of our society 
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • PinoPino 85 Pts   -  
    As the term illegal means;- contrary to or forbidden by law, illegal immigrants are by definition criminals.
    The employers of ''illegals'' cannot deduct nor pay the just and lawful taxes from the earnings of this black market workforce due to the I.R.S. 
    The self employed ''illegals'' can enjoy the profits from trading within a stable and buoyant economy without contributing anything to the cost of the infrastructure or the fiscal purse.
    Successive administrations, but in particular the Democrats, have permitted the illegal immigrant problem to become nigh on insurmountable.
    However, a start will have to be made for the repatriation of the undesirable 'illegals'' such as the criminals and the benefit parasites.
    In addition to this every step to stem the flow of unregulated immigration must commence forthwith. 

  • love2debatelove2debate 186 Pts   -  
    @Pino, agreed completely.  Illegal immigrants are here and in many ways do jobs that others don't want to. It is fueling a sub-economy,  cash payments.  It creates a burden for tax payers.  
  • melanielustmelanielust 285 Pts   -  
    Illegal immigrants in our agricultural industries have created a reliable, untaxable workforce that is extremely beneficial to our economy. They only came here seeking a better life and therefore are hard workers, taking up a lot of work that most Americans won't take.
  • islander507islander507 194 Pts   -  
    @melanielust, that maybe true that no one wants those agricultural jobs, but there is a hugh hidden tax with supporting illegal immigration.  Taxpayers have to subsidize healthcare, education for these illegal immigrants.  While I agree that they work hard, it is not fair to American tax payers and other immigrants who came here legally.
  • VaulkVaulk 813 Pts   -  
    I am in full support of anti-illegal immigration.  I don't believe that allowing people to illegally enter the country should be supported in any way, shape or form for several reasons:

    1.  Our borders represent, firstly and foremost, the security of our Nation.  A breach, bypass, violation or transgression of our border is also the same of our National Security.
    2.  Our borders aren't JUST there for physical security (Keeping out criminals, violent or otherwise).  Our borders are also supposed to protect us from diseases that are rampant in other countries but generally don't exist in the U.S.  There are parts of the world were "The Plague" still exists...that's right, the Black Death is still being passed along from person to person in 3rd world countries across the globe.  Ebola, Smallpox, Dengue Fever, Tuberculosis, Malaria.  I know I certainly wouldn't want my children to be infected with Ebola or The Plague simply because my Neighbor has brought illegal immigrants into his home, infected his children and then sent them to school with mine.
    3.  Lastly and least importantly, I don't believe that I or my fellow American Citizen should be burdened in any way, shape or form because of the addition of illegal immigrants in my Country.  Illegal immigrants draw upon subsidized programs that are paid for with tax dollars...which are my dollars. 
    MissDMeanor
    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".


  • inc4tinc4t 186 Pts   -  
    @Vaulk, amazing points. Agreed!
  • lansilo_user19lansilo_user19 15 Pts   -  
    The wall should be build and illegals should be deported as well.
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    The ineffective wall is a huge waste of money. Most come to this country via planes. Deportation isn't fair, is expensive, and hurts the economy. Not to mention more people are leaving this country than are coming in. Both are a huge waste of money that doesn't do anything to address the real problem of wealth inequality in this country. It's just more of the poor fighting the poor while the rich elites take all the cookies.
    BaconToesPogue
  • inc4tinc4t 186 Pts   -  
    @Odin1, I agree with your recommendation 
    billpassed
  • billpassedbillpassed 146 Pts   -  
    I agree with @inc4t .
  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -  
    Illegal immigrants came to America for a reason, they wanted a better life. I won't deny that Illegal immigrants do commit all sorts of crimes, but so do American citizens, plenty of Americans are arrested each year for the same crimes. The whole "illegal immigrants are rapists and murderers" thing is just a stereotype and is hypocritical. Obviously not all illegals are going to attack your children or rape their classmates, just like not all Americans are spoiled, fat, lazy bums. Those who break the law get arrested, simple as that. 
    About the wall, it's just a huge waste of money, don't underestimate the intelligence of immigrants, they will find ways across it. The money that would go into the wall could be used for more useful things like charities or the national debt.
    islander507
  • islander507islander507 194 Pts   -  
    @ArtisticBear,
    while I agree that stereotypes are not always true - I think you are not confronting the issue that they came here illegally. That's not fair to immigrants who waited their turn. It's not fair to american tax payers either, as illegal immigrants dont oay taxes and can get free urgent medical care (which we ultimately pay for).  
    The wall argument I don't buy.  Sure they will find some way, but it will limit the inflow.
  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -   edited November 2017


  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    @islander507
    They pay the taxes on food and all sorts of other goods don't they? Besides, they have less job opportunities, they can't make as much money as legal citizens because they don't have a social security number.  They want a better life for their children and themselves. Do you know how much most of the everyday items cost in Mexico? Way more than most can afford. They don't have nice comfortable houses, they don't have safe living conditions, their president is constantly taking their money and using it to buy stuff for himself., Most illegal immigrants came to America illegally because don't have time, they need somewhere safe to live immediately. The conditions they live in isn't a joke, they might not even be alive at the time they get accepted. 
    They do have to pay for medical care, the hospital doesn't care whether you're legal or not, they're going to charge you for the medical treatment you received. 
    Finally, about the wall, I have to agree with you on that, it will most likely limit the inflow.
  • OakchairbcOakchairbc 88 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:

    @natbarons ; Imagine if you came here and brought the worst of your native country with you, as all too many illegals do; for instance;

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/22/high-school-rape-in-maryland-shows-need-for-toughe/

    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/21/authorities-raid-suspected-cockfighting-site-in-detroit/

    Don't US citizens deserve protection from people who don't respect our laws?

    All data and studies point towards undocumented immigrants being less likely to commit crimes then natives[1].

    A 2008 report finds that US born men are 10 times more likely to be incarcerated and this is even more of a discrepancy when you realize immigrants can be jailed just for existence[2].

    What you were doing is a logical fallacy called cherry picking. Stop doing it. 


    [1]https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

    [2]http://mediamatters.org/research/201106010027

  • OakchairbcOakchairbc 88 Pts   -  
    1) Studies on the Mariel boatlift which increased Miamis low skilled immigrant population by  7 percentage points of the total populatiion resulted in no ill impacts for natives[1]
    2) In 1965 America kicked out millions of Mexican farm workers, the result was lower wages and employment for Americans[2].
    3) Low skilled immigrants increase the economic well being of natives by 1%[3].
    4) Cities with higher low skilled immigrant populations had natives with a 40% less chance of becoming unemployed[4.

    Fact is immigration is beneficial for the country. There is zero intelligent logical reason to oppose it especially wasting billions of a ignorant wall. Now you know why intelligent people laugh at bigoted Trumpers. 

    [1]https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/23/15855342/immigrants-wages-trump-economics-mariel-boatlift-hispanic-cuban
    [2]http://voxeu.org/article/impact-immigration-barriers-native-workers
    [3]http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/08/how-immigration-benefits-natives.html
    [4]http://owenzidar.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/immigrants-equilibrate-local-labor-markets-evidence-from-the-great-recession/

  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -   edited October 2017

    All data and studies point towards undocumented immigrants being less likely to commit crimes then natives[1].

    A 2008 report finds that US born men are 10 times more likely to be incarcerated and this is even more of a discrepancy when you realize immigrants can be jailed just for existence[2].

    What you were doing is a logical fallacy called cherry picking. Stop doing it. 


    [1]https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

    [2]http://mediamatters.org/research/201106010027

    The facts suggest otherwise;

    The percentage of illegals committing the number of crimes are as follows, according to Fox News:

    13.6 percent of those sentenced for all committed crimes in the country12 percent of murder sentences16 percent of trafficking sentences
    Of the 61,529 criminal cases initiated by federal prosecutors last fiscal year, more than 40%—or 24,746—were filed in court districts neighboring the Mexican border. This includes Arizona, New Mexico, Southern California, Western Texas and Southern Texas. The two Texas districts each had more than double the convictions of all four federal court districts in the state of New York combined, according to the DOJ report. The Western Texas District had the nation’s heaviest crime flow, with 6,341 cases filed by the feds. In Southern Texas 6,130 cases were filed, 4,848 in Southern California, 3,889 in New Mexico and 3,538 in Arizona.
    David Frum of The Atlantic, no hard-core immigration opponent, wrote in 2015 that as of 2011, there were 25,000 illegal immigrants serving murder sentences, and nearly 3 million offenses committed by illegal immigrants between 2003 and 2009, including 70,000 sex crimes and hundreds of thousands of other violent crimes. “After years of welcome decline,” Frum pointed out, “crime rates are rising in immigration hubs including Houston, Milwaukee, Phoenix, and San Diego.” Former Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo reported in 2015 that between “2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%. During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.
    http://www.dailywire.com/news/10155/9-things-you-need-know-about-illegal-immigration-aaron-bandler
  • FascismFascism 344 Pts   -  
    I'm a legal immigrant to the US, and my family had to go through hard work to get here. It took three generations of hard work. These illegals come here without any hard work. They also don't pay taxes, yet we have to. Our tax money goes to their healthcare. 
  • VaulkVaulk 813 Pts   -  
    @Oakchairbc

    I don't think this debate is about immigration.  Immigration is a beautiful thing.  What we're talking about are the people who circumvented the immigration process entirely...spitting upon our laws in the process.  This debate is about "Illegal" immigration.
    Fascism
    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".


  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -   edited October 2017
    @Fascism
    I'd like to clarify that illegal immigrants DO pay taxes and they DO pay for healthcare
  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -  
    Do you people really believe that illegals come to this country illegally because they're don't want to wait their turn to be accepted? Do you have any idea what the requirements to get into this country are, and what kind of conditions illegals lived in? Mexican illegal immigrants for example: 
    1. Live in poverty
    2. Can't get a proper education, most aren't able to finch middle school, and their president does not care
    3. Can't get proper healthcare unless they pay for it first, they do NOT have that much money

    The requirements to get into America are:
    1. have a proper job 
    2. Must have finished high school
    3. Make enough money a year (I forgot the amount of money needed, but it was definitely more that the average Mexican could make in a year

    It's not that they don't want to wait their turn, It's that they aren't able to get the privileges we get in our own country, and those very things they don't get is what the need to get to be able to come in legally. 

    CYDdhartaPogue
  • FascismFascism 344 Pts   -  
    @ArtisticBear
    You can't give exceptions to certain people. This threatens national security. The borders are for keeping us safe. If we keep making exceptions then our security will eventually crumble. Look at Germany. 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    Do you people really believe that illegals come to this country illegally because they're don't want to wait their turn to be accepted? Do you have any idea what the requirements to get into this country are, and what kind of conditions illegals lived in? Mexican illegal immigrants for example: 
    1. Live in poverty
    2. Can't get a proper education, most aren't able to finch middle school, and their president does not care
    3. Can't get proper healthcare unless they pay for it first, they do NOT have that much money

    The requirements to get into America are:
    1. have a proper job 
    2. Must have finished high school
    3. Make enough money a year (I forgot the amount of money needed, but it was definitely more that the average Mexican could make in a year

    It's not that they don't want to wait their turn, It's that they aren't able to get the privileges we get in our own country, and those very things they don't get is what the need to get to be able to come in legally. 

    Hmmm, they don't have enough money, yet they can pay a coyote $8,000 - $10,000 to bring them illegally.  Do you see the problem here??  Also, we really don't want people here who will pick and choose which laws they abide by according to how the laws affect them personally.
    Fascism
  • VaulkVaulk 813 Pts   -  
    I'm afraid I'm with the majority here.  I have to ask though, @ArtisticBear

    If I understand you correctly, these people cannot meet our Nation's standards for immigration, so we should be ok with them breaking our laws and coming over anyway?  The U.S. Department of Immigration puts our legal immigration totals at over 1,000,000 per year since 2000.  The department also cites that we have more Immigrants in the U.S. today than ever before in History, there are approximately 37,000,000 1st generation Immigrants in the U.S. today.  So if what you're saying is correct and our standards are just too high for these people...then why are more people Legally gaining Citizenship Status in the U.S. today than ever before?  Were our standards somehow raised and subsequently created to be more difficult and if so...how are we seeing these immigration numbers?

    Meanwhile, London is the Tuberculosis capital of Europe and stands as a shining example of what happens when you fail to discriminate in regards to immigrants coming into your country from impoverished parts of the world.  Take a wild guess as to when the last time any Illegal Immigrant from Mexico got a medical screening BEFORE they crossed into the U.S.
    "If there's no such thing as a question then what kind of questions do people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".


  • FascismFascism 344 Pts   -  
    @Vaulk ;
    Yes I agree with Vaulk here. The only reason the immigrants aren't much of a problem here as of now is because they are illegal. If you allow them to come over, then the factors change. Since the immigrants are illegal, the circumstances we see now are happening. If we make them legal, then the circumstances change. We have no idea what would happen. This is why we should look at past and current examples, and these examples don't favor giving these immigrants legality. 
  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -  
    @Vaulk
    What I am saying is that they should be let in but if they break a law (something like robbery, murder, rape etc.) then the US has a right to deport them. I won't deny that some illegal immigrants do break laws, but should not be representing all illegal immigrants.
    Of course the US should be careful of who they let into the country, but those who really just want a better life probably don't have any intention to disrespect our country.should be let in. 

    Second, there is another way to get into the US legally, by having a legal US citizen let you in legally. This US citizen can go to the government and ask that you be let into the country. A way of getting acquainted with a legal citizen when you don't know anybody born in the US, is marriage. 
    Let's say Person A (from X country) has a friend, Person B (illegal immigrant). Person B marries Person C (native-born citizen) and Person C decides to give Person B legal status, so he?she does. Then Person B or Person C can bring Person A into the country legally. 

    Third, they wouldn't be bringing in disease if they could get medical treatment without it being incredibly expensive. It's already expensive enough for a legal citizens who have better paying jobs and more job opportunities. Plus it's hard to find an insurance company that doesn't care whether you're legal or not. 


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @Vaulk
    What I am saying is that they should be let in but if they break a law (something like robbery, murder, rape etc.) then the US has a right to deport them.
    So you think we should let in all the Sayfullo Saipov's and Tsarnaev's out there and deport them only AFTER they've killed citizens and blown things up?? 

  • FascismFascism 344 Pts   -  
    @ArtisticBear
    "Of course the US should be careful of who they let into the country, but those who really just want a better life probably don't have any intention to disrespect our country.should be let in. "
    The problem is, we have no way of telling if they come with good intention. If we deport them after they cause destruction, it's not going to do any good. 

    "Second, there is another way to get into the US legally, by having a legal US citizen let you in legally. This US citizen can go to the government and ask that you be let into the country. A way of getting acquainted with a legal citizen when you don't know anybody born in the US, is marriage. 
    Let's say Person A (from X country) has a friend, Person B (illegal immigrant). Person B marries Person C (native-born citizen) and Person C decides to give Person B legal status, so he?she does. Then Person B or Person C can bring Person A into the country legally. "
    This is about illegal immigration. Legal immigration is fine. 

    "Third, they wouldn't be bringing in disease if they could get medical treatment without it being incredibly expensive. It's already expensive enough for a legal citizens who have better paying jobs and more job opportunities. Plus it's hard to find an insurance company that doesn't care whether you're legal or not. "
    The medical treatment as of now isn't expensive, but if make these illegals legal, then it would be expensive, since many more of these immigrants will cross the border. This would increase the expenses. 


    Look at the examples of what legalizing these immigrants does. Look at Paris. Look at Germany. 
  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -  
    @Fascism
    We don't know legal citizens have good intentions either, we don't jail them unless they've done something wrong.
    Did we arrest John Wayne Gacy before he did his first crime? No. We could not have known what was coming, 

    I was answering Vaulk´s question on why there are more people coming into the country legally than ever 

    There really is no difference between legal and illegal immigration once you think about it. Illegal immigrants just can't meet the standards, they would immigrate legally if the could, but they can't. They got mixed in with those illegal immigrants that do migrate just for drugs, crime, and that stuff, you can't blame them. 
  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    Not necessarily after they've committed the crime. If you see a person who just happens to be an illegal immigrants acting suspiciously, you can report them. Treat them like we would treat any person who acts suspiciously or commits crimes
    You know just as well as I do that plenty of legal, native-born citizens commit crimes each day. there is no difference other than the consequences/punishment.
  • FascismFascism 344 Pts   -  
    @ArtisticBear
    "Illegal immigrants just can't meet the standards, they would immigrate legally if the could, but they can't. They got mixed in with those illegal immigrants that do migrate just for drugs, crime, and that stuff, you can't blame them."

    Those standards that we impose on them protect us. It is true that not all illegals are bad, but if we give them an exception, then all the criminal illegals will come in too. 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    Not necessarily after they've committed the crime. If you see a person who just happens to be an illegal immigrants acting suspiciously, you can report them. Treat them like we would treat any person who acts suspiciously or commits crimes
    You know just as well as I do that plenty of legal, native-born citizens commit crimes each day. there is no difference other than the consequences/punishment.
    You know just as well as I do that most suspicious activities are never reported.  This is especially true of immigrants, whose customs and practices are unfamiliar making it difficult to distinguish what's suspicious and what isn't.  The pro-immigration zealots already have citizens too frightened of being seen as profiling if they report suspicious activities, as was illustrated by the neighbor of Syed Farook's mother.  First, you'd have to reverse the trend and make it acceptable once again to be suspicious of immigrants. 
    ArtisticBear
  • ArtisticBearArtisticBear 28 Pts   -   edited November 2017
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
  • OakchairbcOakchairbc 88 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:

    All data and studies point towards undocumented immigrants being less likely to commit crimes then natives[1].

    A 2008 report finds that US born men are 10 times more likely to be incarcerated and this is even more of a discrepancy when you realize immigrants can be jailed just for existence[2].

    What you were doing is a logical fallacy called cherry picking. Stop doing it. 


    [1]https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states

    [2]http://mediamatters.org/research/201106010027

    The facts suggest otherwise;

    The percentage of illegals committing the number of crimes are as follows, according to Fox News:

    13.6 percent of those sentenced for all committed crimes in the country12 percent of murder sentences16 percent of trafficking sentences
    Of the 61,529 criminal cases initiated by federal prosecutors last fiscal year, more than 40%—or 24,746—were filed in court districts neighboring the Mexican border. This includes Arizona, New Mexico, Southern California, Western Texas and Southern Texas. The two Texas districts each had more than double the convictions of all four federal court districts in the state of New York combined, according to the DOJ report. The Western Texas District had the nation’s heaviest crime flow, with 6,341 cases filed by the feds. In Southern Texas 6,130 cases were filed, 4,848 in Southern California, 3,889 in New Mexico and 3,538 in Arizona.
    David Frum of The Atlantic, no hard-core immigration opponent, wrote in 2015 that as of 2011, there were 25,000 illegal immigrants serving murder sentences, and nearly 3 million offenses committed by illegal immigrants between 2003 and 2009, including 70,000 sex crimes and hundreds of thousands of other violent crimes. “After years of welcome decline,” Frum pointed out, “crime rates are rising in immigration hubs including Houston, Milwaukee, Phoenix, and San Diego.” Former Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo reported in 2015 that between “2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%. During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.
    http://www.dailywire.com/news/10155/9-things-you-need-know-about-illegal-immigration-aaron-bandler
    Fox news. The dailywire. ROTFL. Are you trying to prove you're a troll?


    1970-2010 ares with more immigration have more crime[1].

    Immigrants have lower crime rates around 33% lower compared to natives[2].


    [1]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/immigrants-do-not-increase-crime-research-shows/

    [2]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/02/surprise-donald-trump-is-wrong-about-immigrants-and-crime/


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