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God doesn't exist - Change my mind

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  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Erfisflat said:
    I'm thinking I've gone a little off topic. @Evidence, would this peer review point belong in science, after all the Bible does say to prove all things, does it not?

    @Erfisflat most definitely ! This is why the Bible was written by so many different authors, se we can see it from different perspectives, yet it is non-contradicting, not as atheists claim from watching films like Zeitgeist that were created by the same Germans that created NASA space travel. Anyone that has read and studied the entire Bible, which thousands of Scholars have for thousands of years will attest to its infallibility, and non-contradiction.

    This is why the Roman Emperor Constantine confiscated both the OT and the New, because with all the gods that Rome had, including all the Greek and Egyptian gods, their stories regarding these gods were anything from funny, to ridiculous to childish. Most of them included incest, murdering each other, and like Odin and Thor, I mean come on, .. it might make a fair comic book story but really, how would ANY god-story stand up to the Bible, like to Christs teaching for instance?

    This is why I am sooooo grateful for you having stuck to your guns when you debated the Flat Earth, at first, I really thought you were just kidding around. But like you said, which I go by also as what the Bible says that we are to "prove all things" and when you asked what made me believe that our earth is a globe, and what proof I considered that there are planets out there, it didn't take long to realize that what I thought and believed all my life as facts were nothing but cartoons and artist rendered CGI art work.

    I really do pray that many more Bible believers would wake up to these truths! But I believe with all my heart, from the evidence presented in Christians responses to Flat Earth, is that it is their Christian Doctrines that are keeping them from accepting the undeniable truth.
    Erfisflat
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  

    @Evidence:

    "There is only One God, the Only Possible OneInfinite and Eternal "I Am".
    If you can't see/understand what Infinite and Eternal means, then you will never find the One True God looking through all the tens of thousands of man-made gods created by man-made Religions."

    I'm actually confused now. Infinite means a number without limits or is another word for god, am I correct? Eternal means that he has lived forever. You can't just define things into existence. Maybe I'm missing something, but from what I'm seeing you keep reiterating the same phrase over and over that is basically a tautology. You say "God is infinite", which is basically like me saying "dragons are dragons", which says nothing about the existence of dragons.

    Infinite, .. Infinite is God. Not infinity, but Infinite.

    Infinite is conscious and He defined Himself to Moses as "I Am".
    God to Moses: Who should you say to the Children of Israel that sent you? Tell them: "I Am has sent me to you"

    Infinite who is also Eternal is not a being, but the Ground of Being. Since Infinite is borderless, and Eternal, there is no-thing that makes Him who He is, no part of creation is God.

    Just like us, our mind is not made of any physical created 'thing', it is as Infinite as God is. He gave us our mind/spirit/breath of life which is how this body He made out of dust became a "living being".
    Evidence:
    "Tell me this then; are you sure Darwin existed?

    What I mean is like; there have been claims that many books were written by a sitting vegetable in a wheelchair, .. I doubt he wrote even one of those books? I am talking about Stephen Hawking

    (Time 6:53 - 7:20) I know how TPTB operate, so from my observation, they are giving this person who is a total vegetable, small currents of electrify to his face that make him grimace a bit, which is most likely is freaking him out, and everything else is a "prerecording message on a 70's answering machine".

    Please tell me you don't actually believe he was giving all those answers here with twitches and tiny, delicate head movements picking through all the possible answers?"

    I laughed at this post, not because I think that it's ridiculous, you bring up a good points, but because of the word choice here talking about Stephen Hawking and the idea. I'm just trying to imagine it. I'm actually taking it seriously don't worry. I'm not sure if Darwin existed. He might not have. Let's entertain the idea. So the story is that Charles Darwin, a naturalist who worked for the science community in I think England, sailed around the world to study wildlife around the world for a year or two. Every finding he would find would be shipped back to England for investigation. He observed how different finches on the Galapagos islands had different beaks specializing in what they ate. Darwin created a theory, known now as Darwinian evolution that explained that animals change over time to specialize in things and to survive. Random mutation, the missing puzzle to this theory has now been proven to be true. He wrote a book "On the origin of species" and won a Nobel prize. Good luck discrediting that and disproving the existence of him.

    Ok, I say Satanist wrote the book, this is why long after his assumed death they keep digging up skull & bones and collecting them. Satanists are infatuated with death and digging up graves:

    Related image 
    Any one of these could have been the so called Darwin!?

    Well, if they say Jesus didn't exist, I can claim Darwin didn't exist. But fine, humor me, let's say he existed, and that he observed how different finches on the Galapagos islands had different beaks specializing in what they ate. He noticed that some finches have smaller beaks then some others, well that was very observant of him, but explain to me as to what made him think that animals speciate into other species over time to specialize in things and to survive? How many millions of years did this Darwin fella watch animals to think they change from one species into another? .. and by what, because he seen different finches with different color feathers and different sized beaks? So what was his "evolution opinion" on humans who have some really long noses?

    Image result for pic of  very long noses

    Image result for pic of  very long noses


    Agility_Dude said, Random mutation, the missing puzzle to this theory has now been proven to be true.

    Show me One, .. just One video, or picture, or documented event of one species mutating into, or giving birth to two separate distinct species, .. just one? Did they say that the none-existent Darwin seen such a thing?
    It's been 2.5 billion Carl Sagan years since the wet salty rock gave birth to the first amoeba, shouldn't we be seeing billions of species speciating everywhere by now? Like the two ladies above, shouldn't they be growing feathers and flying South for the winter by now?

    He wrote a book "On the origin of species" and won a Nobel prize. Good luck discrediting that and disproving the existence of him.

    My screen name is Evidence, so can you show me evidence of this guy you call Darwin besides some funny ape-like picture they made up of him? And the book, anyone could have wrote that. I'm sure either the KKK wrote it, so they could have an excuse to kill Negros because they can now label and categorize them as animals, and their Satanist brothers wanted to have an excuse to rob graves of skull & bones, so they wouldn't keep getting arrested.
    As for the Nobel prize, heck, even Arafat got one of those for his suicide bomb squad. They give those away to just about anyone. Didn't Stephen Hawking's 70's answering machine get one too? And look how many books that 70's answering machine wrote!


    Evidence:
    "Who says Evolution must keep balance? I thought it is all through chaotic chance, with no purpose or will of anyone or anything? Where are all the billions of senseless mutations going on that are dying out, like croc a ducks with internal organs growing on the bottom of their feet? Or humans with eyes on the back of their heads, some on their knees, and arms grown out like tree branches? Why is it that all we see is this perfect balance after 2.5 billion years of biological evolution where we have 8 million perfect species, we should see all the billions of dying ones!? Where are they? What, them skull & bones?
    Never mind; Missing, … clink!"

    I was referring to how evolution is intertwined with the food web of the ecosystem and how it can disrupt the chain and how it is always mitigated. And for the species that die out? Yes they are the skulls and bones that we have found, what else could they be? And what about the very rare traces of fossilized skin that we've found? How do you explain that?

    "WHAT? Look around you, all you see is perfect natural harmony as you were explaining, yet now you say that "most of the time mutations aren't beneficial"? Most of the time? Show me one animal in the animal kingdom of 8 million different species, all evolving as we speak that their evolution/speciation is not perfect? Just one? There are 7 billion human-apes alone, show me where from the 8 million different species that their mutation (all are evolving) aren't beneficial? Which mutation, is it the elephant, or the birds eating the bugs off of them? Is it the lions, whales, .. which?
    I don't mean sickness or disease, Evolutionist pharmacists are curing those and making billion$ on them, so even the sickness is "beneficial" to the Evolutionist-Pharmacist!"

    As for mutations not being beneficial I was referring to the ones on individuals that cause a large noticeable change. A whole species with a non-beneficial genetic mutation would be very unlikely. It actually does happen to some species though, such as the blind cave tetra's bulging piece of tissue on it's face.
    Image result for blind cave tetra
    It originally had eyes where the two bulges are but this species no longer needed eyes because it lives in pitch black areas.

    Blind humans develop their hearing, deaf and dumb people their senses through their feet and read lips, but not one has ever changed/speciated into a monkey or some other creature. Don't show us blind fish, show us how this fish changes into a lizard, .. that's what we want to see! We want to see Evolution in action, Not skull and bones, not a bunch of fossilized bugs and skins, but evolution-in-action! I can show you 8 million different living species that God has carefully created, each one so different that Adam could never get bored bird watching, or bug collecting, or catching different butterflies for his collection. Why do you think Darwin went to the Galapagos Islands, to watch animals evolving/speciating? Lol. Of course not.

    Wait, I mean you do know that Evolutionists, this includes Dawkins, say that no living species of any kind has ever evolved/speciated/morphed/gave birth to any other species in their lifetime, right? In other words, evolutionists admit that speciation/evolution never happens, so why do you keep trying to push this Evolution junk?
    @Evidence: "That's what I'm asking about, it had the same amount of years, billions of them just as the wolves had starting from the same stock (amoeba), same tectonic plate, same everything including evolution time, so why did the rabbit not evolve some defensive/survival of the fittest characteristics like the wolves, or the lions, or the bears? How could evolution be so to forget it's evolution, survival of the fittest, .. dog-eat-dog out there!? 
    But nooo, .. the rabbit amoeba decides to evolve for billions of years to eat grass, and grow nice and fat with a fluffy fur that just screams "Eat Me Please!?" while the wolves plan to stick around, and evolved to eating the bunnies!
    Besides, once the wolves realize that the bunny population was dwindling, they could start evolving to eat grass."

    The rabbits don't need defense, they have a high reproductive rate so that they can sustain themselves and they are quick and agile to get away from prey. Also, about the wolves eating grass comment, they couldn't do that in the time they have left, a few generations.

    "So what if they grew 10 feet tall and reproduced to take over the entire earth and they eat all the grass? It's not like anyone is keeping track of every step here, it's what works, works, .. and what doesn't work, dies a slow agonizing death! Some going blind as they walk on their eyeballs grown out on the bottom of their feet, or hearts hanging between their legs which bursts every time they run, .. and the billions and billions of other mutations between the 8 million working ones."

    This is so unlikely to happen even over the time that rabbits have lived (50 million years).
    Buddy, first you say wolves only have a few generations left, and then you say the rabbits lived for the past 50 million years!?

    Where did the rabbit and the wolf evolved from and how long have they been evolving, .. huh? What do you mean "wolves couldn't do that in the time they have left, a few generations"?? That's it, .. after 2.5 BILLION years, wolves have only a few more generations left? Then what, the third generation become rabbits and visa versa? I don't understand what you're saying, and I doubt you do either? According to Evolution, they both evolved from amoeba. Same tectonic plate, same sun and moon, same food source, same everything, yet one amoeba evolves for food and the other to eat that food? I think someone planned it like that, don't you? I mean it's all so perfect, all 8 million different species created for our pleasure and enjoyment, and also for a variety of cuisines, .. all well planned out, with no sign of ANY horrible mutations going on in every bush, on every tree, in every water, but all living and happily breeding and reproducing after their kind.

    Agility_Dude said:
    Evidence said: 
    "It is evident that someone is organizing, carefully planning everything ahead of time from the way things look, wouldn't you agree? I mean this, .. umm, .. this Organizer/Planner is so meticulous about everything from weather, to air quality, to the amount of oxygen plants give out, to the temperature of all the animal, especially the human body within 1/2 a degree, and the heart rate; up when we need more oxygen, down when we're relaxed, .. I mean I could go on for years listing the perfection just in the human body, let alone our entire ecosystem, it is so dialed in that you Evolutionist can't even find any gross mutating living creatures!? As if they all gone missing, or someone hid them so we don't see them suffering as they agonizingly mutate over thousands of generations!?"

    No species has gotten even close to perfection because perfection would be the greatest conceivable thing, and as theists have said, god, the greatest conceivable being cannot be comprehended. I can also look at the imperfections in species such as the blind cave tetra, the appendix, the pinky toe, and the claws under an emu's wings. I also can find a mutating creature. The peppered moth that I explained a long time ago would have to have passed on its genes over the 20 years because no moth lives that long, proving mutation and natural selection.

    "Yes They Do! Isn't that amazing, here is proof of evolution, random mutation, and they try to cure them?? What are all these Evolutionary scientists thinking, don't they know not to mess with evolution but let Mother Nature set the course? Pets grow tumors, let it grow, they are just evolving. We have trillions of dollars invested the Pharmaceutical industry to stop mutation before it has a chance to speciate! Why do Evolutionary scientist so against evolution? Always trying to correct what Mother Nature dialed in so perfectly, .. why?"

    In the wild a person with down's syndrome would most likely die, but that doesn't mean that it isn't beneficial to society. Even down's syndrome people help the economy by getting jobs even though it's hard.

    So the species are not perfect? Show me one healthy (not the ones Dr. Mengele type Satanist Evolutionists are experimenting on) species from the 8 million that are not perfect? Just one?
    You mean: blind cave tetra, the appendix, the pinky toe, and the claws under an emu's wings, .. keep going, tonsils, two lungs instead one good one that can handle the oxygen need, penis and testicles between our legs that rub as we walk, two ears on the side instead of one big one on our forehead shaped like a satellite dish, .. and look how we evolved the ape hair off our bodies where now we need warm clothes not like our smarter ape cousins!

    Image result for pic of our ancestor apes Lucy, ..

    Image result for pic of girls heads  Lucy after 6 trillion million years still eating the same food, same influence of her environment, so only Mother nature knows why she lost her fur?


    Image result for pic of our ancestor apes  Now this does make me wonder???


    Agility - I also can find a mutating creature. The peppered moth

    What was the pepper moth before, .. and what is it speciating evolving into? as far as any Evolutionist knows, the Pepper moth was always a Pepper moth.

    Image result for pic of pepper moth

    Now here is a Macro-Evolutionist creature if I ever seen one:



    Agility - In the wild a person with down's syndrome would most likely die, but that doesn't mean that it isn't beneficial to society. Even down's syndrome people help the economy by getting jobs even though it's hard.

    In the wild, most likely 80% of city-folk would die, even the ones born in the wild can barely survive:



    Evidence -Oh yes I do, .. and they had 2.5 billion years of "modifications" to do it in."
    Agility - Actually rabbits only appeared within the past 50 million years.

    Again, they both started with amoeba right here, right next to each other, one evolved as food for the other. Survival for the fittest: "Eat Me, I am a juicy fluffy rabbit!" lol. 

    Evidence - "Why, oh why did the amoeba evolve to rabbits with specialized legs and feet to "RUN for their lives" all the time, .. why, oh why did the porcupines evolve to have lower reproduction rate, .. why oh why didn't the gorilla keep evolving bigger brain, instead of just staying a huge dumb target for human hunters? I m4ean at least the apes could have evolved to speak the humans language, after all, we all evolved within the same perimeters, same time, same everything, so what happened?
    You see, evolution makes absolutely no sense, but a Creator planning all this out and creating all the animals for us man for our entertainment makes perfect sense."

    Agility - The rabbits evolved specialized legs to survive. The porcupines didn't evolve a lower reproduction rate,

    I mean really, a child could make up all these stories, what you're avoiding is how each of the 8 million different species evolved so differently from the same amoeba, being influenced by the exact same environment and food source while trying to survive! Under Evolution, none of this makes sense, but someone creating the delicious bunny to reproduce quicker makes perfect sense.

    Agility - the rabbits evolved a higher one because they needed it.

    Really, .. they needed it? Evolution is supposedly; no will or plan of anyone or anything, .. and the bunnies "needed it"?
    How about; the wolves and other carnivores needed it, so God made sure they have plenty of it.

    Agility - Gorillas and apes don't need to evolve more intelligently or to speak because they already specialize in strength to sustain themselves.

    , I can shoot all the remaining gorillas in a week, and they'd be extinct. I mean what were those hairy muscle-heads thinking? They waisted 60 million years evolving muscles while they could have evolved brains instead!?

    Agility - I will admit that if evolution is false I will accept a creator god as an explanation. Maybe not the christian one because I need to be persuaded on which one I should choose as well. That's why I suggested getting a Muslim representative to join this debate.

    Evolution is obviously false, now throw up a coin and call it: heads you accept the Muslim god, and tails, you get beheaded, .. I mean you go extinct. Either way, it's Not your choice. It's all evolution. It's your environment and the egg Mc-muffin that you ate that will determine your decision, remember? Your mind is created by the influence on your brain by your environment and the food you ate for breakfast. besides, both Religions worship the same god/gods. Christianity created Islam.

    Or, .. you can open the Bible and with what you already know about all the lies out there of the Big-Bang that Globetard's don't know what's it expanding in, .. and Evolutionist even admit that Evolution never happens, so you have a head start, now you can concentrate on reading and studying the Bible, and see if you can find God in His Word, and in real science. Until of course NASA can provide a real picture of Globe Earth, and CERN tell us what medium the quantum speck Big-Banged in?
  • Agility_DudeAgility_Dude 62 Pts   -  
    @Poco:

    "As I asked you b4, how do you know what hell is like since it's not described in the bible literally?"

    I don't know. I can only make an educated guess. I remember two descriptions of hell, both different, and both which my argument can apply to because in both scenarios you suffer for (theoretically) eternity, which can never be justified. The first description I believe I read from the bible itself (I read a little bit of Genesis) and it talked about being thrown into a lake of fire. This is the one that I believe to be the most credible of the two. The second was one I saw when I went to confirmation about a year ago (I'm raised in a Catholic family so even though I am an atheist my parents wanted me to be confirmed asap so that if I became a Catholic, I wouldn't have to do confirmation), and at one of the meetings we watched a video talking about hell, and they described it as if you were trapped in an elevator for all of eternity (again, theoretically). I say theoretically because infinity is mathematically impossible, but my point still stands and that is if you are never let out of a punishment the punishment can never be justified unless the sin is infinite (which it cannot be).

    "I see that you're attempting to use your personal perspective to object to the way God handles things.  A God that created a sustaining universe billions of years ago from nothing, & gave us everything we could ever want ..... & what did we do with God's rules & generosity?  Told Him many many times that we do not want Him.

     So, God made it easy or us to be guaranteed an eternal reward thru His grace.  Yet, we still turn our backs on God.  We, the same human race that live immoral lives since we've come onto this earth.  Don't we all choose which way we want to go re God?  Yet, you want to blame God, not the choices we make as human individuals.  Don't we all know what the consequences are as we make these important decisions?"

    It doesn't matter how bad we are if we live a finite life of about 80 years or so we cannot commit an infinite sin. However, god's punishment exceeds that sin, that's what you are forgetting. Don't get me wrong, I still believe that god should give people such as me a punishment for me potentially corrupting others if he exists but it can never be justified unless what I do equates to that never ending punishment, which is impossible.

    "As I asked you b4, how do you know what heaven is like?"

    It is heavily implied that heaven is a reward at least being better than this world. The specifics don't matter in my argument and I cannot give you them.

    "God's rules since He created everything, wouldn't it make sense He can do what He wants to? Thing is, how do you know what it absolutely takes to go to hell, since Jesus told us leave all that type stuff to God's perfect justice.  I don't know what that means ...... how do you know?"

    Sure he can do what he wants to, but that doesn't make it right according to the Christian standard. I shouldn't say to people don't murder and then murder someone, that would be hypocrisy, and in the same way god shouldn't tell people to love each other and then throw people in hell. I don't know what it takes to go to hell I just know that it is possible. I would assume that not believing in god would take you to hell because that is what was originally taught in the olden days where they could be more accurate on who god is. Over time, an understanding of something or a copy of a book will get less accurate as it is passed on. Therefore, the teachings in the year 400 will likely be more accurate than the teachings now. Therefore, it is more rational to believe in the teachings in the year 400.

    Me: "In my example where I said that god is ignorant, it's not the ignorance himself that makes him bad, but the action that was associated with that ignorance. "

    Like what?

    Sending people to hell regardless of their behavior. This must be true or else there would be no good reason for Jesus to be sent down to earth, and we wouldn't call him a savior rather a messenger of the truth.

    "That's where you're missing the point of it all.  It's not the negative consequence that should motivate a person to do the opposite of whatever to deserve that, it's doing the right thing bc we WANT to do the right thing ...... bc it's in our hearts to do the right thing.  

    How do you know you have the correct impression of God?  Could you just be mistaken, & not like Him all this time bc you have labeled God wrongly?  What if you're wrong?  What if your interpretation of certain verses that have you upset, or believing the wrong thing is incorrect?  How do you know what you believe is right?"

    I am using what I have been taught from Catholic doctrine to combat it. I am talking about what has been taught directly after when Jesus supposedly appeared to the best of my knowledge. I'll give you a question. How do you know that god wants us to do good things because we want to and because its in our hearts is the correct interpretation? I take your word for it, because even though you may be wrong, I have no evidence to assume that. If you can give me some evidence that I am wrong and tell me what I should be believing than I would be happy to change my interpretation but unless you can give me that this can turn into a shouting match of plain assertions. "I'm right!" "No! I'm right!"

    Now about the first paragraph, I have different reasons to do these actions, however deep down I do have a desire to do them still. I believe that what I feel is right is right, but I was skeptical about it so I did lots and lots of thinking to figure it out for myself and finally came up with a way to find out why everything that we believe in is right for us. Because of practicality. But I have also evolved to want to do what is right because it is deep down in my heart. And this is the ultimate incentivizeation to do what is right when both your heart and your brain tell you to do so.


    Me: "I just believe in it for different reasons, so the only act that I am committing is not believing in these figures."

    "What reasons are those?  

    & what figures don't you believe in?"

    Practicality. I have evolved to want to be nice to my friends because as a naturally self interested social animal, I should be nice to others because then they will in turn be nice to me. It is a mutual relationship where both participating individuals benefit more if they participate rather then if they don't because we are naturally dependent on others and others are naturally dependent on us.

    The figures I don't believe in are god and the holy spirit, and I question the existence of Jesus Christ. I hope that everything I have said here has cleared up a few things.


    Agility_Dude/PyromanGaming


    @Erfisflat:


    I skimmed through your post about changing your mind. Wow! It's insane what a journey you've went through. When I told my dad that I was having a flat earth debate he thought that you were a close minded and under educated person, but throughout our debate I always thought that you were a very intelligent and reasonable person, and now this shows how open minded you are to other points of view.

    It was actually ironic because before I read your post I was going to talk about that a flat earth would prove fine-tuning, so I was going to talk about how I believe that something or someone created this earth, maybe not Yahweh or some other religious figure, but still a powerful god, but I think that what has been posted along with the sun concern I had has really changed my mind again. What do you say about those arguments that you presented about how you can see that the earth is flat, like the one across the lake?

    Another question: do you believe in god still? This was from what I saw you only argument for god. If it's been smacked down do you still believe in god? Hope to see you here again or in another debate and thank you for the experience!


    Agility_Dude/Pyroman_Gaming


    @Evidence:


    "Ok, I say Satanist wrote the book, this is why long after his assumed death they keep digging up skull & bones and collecting them. Satanists are infatuated with death and digging up graves:

    Any one of these could have been the so called Darwin!?"


    Here is a picture taken of Charles Darwin in 1868, 50 years after the camera was invented:

    Image result for charles darwin

    There are even photographs of him. He exists! He published a book! He traveled around the world documenting species in places like the Galapagos islands which I can guarantee you can find in the Galapagos islands. Discredit this and we can conclude that Darwin exists. I try to respond to everything you have to say no matter how ridiculous it sounds, do that same for me. You didn't so it in this last post with the one thing I asked you to respond to.

    "Well, if they say Jesus didn't exist, I can claim Darwin didn't exist. But fine, humor me, let's say he existed, and that he observed how different finches on the Galapagos islands had different beaks specializing in what they ate. He noticed that some finches have smaller beaks then some others, well that was very observant of him, but explain to me as to what made him think that animals speciate into other species over time to specialize in things and to survive? How many millions of years did this Darwin fella watch animals to think they change from one species into another? .. and by what, because he seen different finches with different color feathers and different sized beaks? So what was his "evolution opinion" on humans who have some really long noses?"

    Do long noses matter? Do will people with long noses be more beneficial or be considered in this day and age more sexy? If so, more people in the future will have long noses.

    "Show me One, .. just One video, or picture, or documented event of one species mutating into, or giving birth to two separate distinct species, .. just one? Did they say that the none-existent Darwin seen such a thing?
    It's been 2.5 billion Carl Sagan years since the wet salty rock gave birth to the first amoeba, shouldn't we be seeing billions of species speciating everywhere by now? Like the two ladies above, shouldn't they be growing feathers and flying South for the winter by now?"

    This is a straw man of evolution. It's not ape to human in one generation. It's like this:

    Gen 1: Homo Erectus

    Gen 1000: Noticeably taller and losing hair die to increased use of clothes

    Gen 5000: Getting larger head and brain

    Gen 10,000: Brain it it's peak size, almost fully developed, and full height

    Gen 30,000: Head and brain gets a bit smaller to be more compact

    Gen 35,000: Humans as we know today

    Of course this isn't exactly how it would happen, just a picture. Sure, along the way there would be bumps such as unnecessarily longer noses, but these things will be mitigated through natural selection, being out bred, in this case. If you don't know how something is out bred, ask me in your rebuttal.

    "My screen name is Evidence, so can you show me evidence of this guy you call Darwin besides some funny ape-like picture they made up of him? And the book, anyone could have wrote that. I'm sure either the KKK wrote it, so they could have an excuse to kill Negros because they can now label and categorize them as animals, and their Satanist brothers wanted to have an excuse to rob graves of skull & bones, so they wouldn't keep getting arrested.
    As for the Nobel prize, heck, even Arafat got one of those for his suicide bomb squad. They give those away to just about anyone. Didn't Stephen Hawking's 70's answering machine get one too? And look how many books that 70's answering machine wrote!"

    Evidence that the intent of the book was made for that purpose? It's ironic don't you think?

    "Blind humans develop their hearing, deaf and dumb people their senses through their feet and read lips, but not one has ever changed/speciated into a monkey or some other creature. Don't show us blind fish, show us how this fish changes into a lizard, .. that's what we want to see! We want to see Evolution in action, Not skull and bones, not a bunch of fossilized bugs and skins, but evolution-in-action! I can show you 8 million different living species that God has carefully created, each one so different that Adam could never get bored bird watching, or bug collecting, or catching different butterflies for his collection. Why do you think Darwin went to the Galapagos Islands, to watch animals evolving/speciating? Lol. Of course not.

    Wait, I mean you do know that Evolutionists, this includes Dawkins, say that no living species of any kind has ever evolved/speciated/morphed/gave birth to any other species in their lifetime, right? In other words, evolutionists admit that speciation/evolution never happens, so why do you keep trying to push this Evolution junk?"

    First of all, blind and deaf human's other senses can only go so far. They would naturally die due to natural selection. Speciation is a strawman of evolution, as I explained in a previous paragraph.

    So the species are not perfect? Show me one healthy (not the ones Dr. Mengele type Satanist Evolutionists are experimenting on) species from the 8 million that are not perfect? Just one?

    "So the species are not perfect? Show me one healthy (not the ones Dr. Mengele type Satanist Evolutionists are experimenting on) species from the 8 million that are not perfect? Just one? 

    You mean: blind cave tetra, the appendix, the pinky toe, and the claws under an emu's wings, .. keep going, tonsils, two lungs instead one good one that can handle the oxygen need, penis and testicles between our legs that rub as we walk, two ears on the side instead of one big one on our forehead shaped like a satellite dish, .. and look how we evolved the ape hair off our bodies where now we need warm clothes not like our smarter ape cousins!"

    Now note that this contradicts the idea of intelligent design which you are leading to because why would a creator put these things in? I really need an answer to this question. A few of those examples which you imply would be beneficial would not be beneficial to a person, which you imply disproves evolution. Here's why:

    The two lungs are there because everything else was occupied by something else beneficial to the body, one big ear on the forehead would be bad because then you couldn't hear where a predator was coming from if you heard it, and the creation of clothing removed the necessity for hair. There.

    "I mean really, a child could make up all these stories, what you're avoiding is how each of the 8 million different species evolved so differently from the same amoeba, being influenced by the exact same environment and food source while trying to survive! Under Evolution, none of this makes sense, but someone creating the delicious bunny to reproduce quicker makes perfect sense."

    They all evolved differently to take advantage of different food sources. I explained this before so pay attention:

    Plants evolved to take advantage of the sun, herbivores evolved to take advantage of the plants, and carnivores evolved to take advantage of the herbivores.

    I don't understand how this doesn't make sense, you just assert that it doesn't.

    "Really, .. they needed it? Evolution is supposedly; no will or plan of anyone or anything, .. and the bunnies "needed it"?
    How about; the wolves and other carnivores needed it, so God made sure they have plenty of it."

    Yes they needed it to survive, so the ones that evolve higher reproduction rate and to be faster will be more successful than ones that don't have these qualities. It happened randomly and rabbits spontaneously gradually evolved a higher reproduction rate and better legs.

    , I can shoot all the remaining gorillas in a week, and they'd be extinct. I mean what were those hairy muscle-heads thinking? They waisted 60 million years evolving muscles while they could have evolved brains instead!?

    We created guns so quickly that gorillas don't have time to respond, and there would have to be too many body modifications to the gorilla for it to even be remotely possible for it to evolve to survive hunters.

    "Evolution is obviously false, now throw up a coin and call it: heads you accept the Muslim god, and tails, you get beheaded, .. I mean you go extinct. Either way, it's Not your choice. It's all evolution. It's your environment and the egg Mc-muffin that you ate that will determine your decision, remember? Your mind is created by the influence on your brain by your environment and the food you ate for breakfast. besides, both Religions worship the same god/gods. Christianity created Islam.

    Or, .. you can open the Bible and with what you already know about all the lies out there of the Big-Bang that Globetard's don't know what's it expanding in, .. and Evolutionist even admit that Evolution never happens, so you have a head start, now you can concentrate on reading and studying the Bible, and see if you can find God in His Word, and in real science. Until of course NASA can provide a real picture of Globe Earth, and CERN tell us what medium the quantum speck Big-Banged in?"

    First of all, even though Christianity created Islam Islam dictates that you must either be a very good person and or a Muslim in order to go to heaven. If Islam was true and I died right now I would probably go to hell. I'm not a saint by any means I admit that. As for the bible, I want to read all of it someday. I try really hard to discipline myself to what I think is important, but I don't go very far. Maybe I can discipline myself to read 20-50 pages of the bible everyday.

    In conclusion, I have tried to respond to all of your points in the debate. I feel that you have not done that on your part. If I haven't on my part, let me know. Thank you!


    Agility_Dude/PyromanGaming

  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Agility_Dude said:
    @Evidence"Ok, I say Satanist wrote the book, this is why long after his assumed death they keep digging up skull & bones and collecting them. Satanists are infatuated with death and digging up graves:

    Any one of these could have been the so called Darwin!?"


    Here is a picture taken of Charles Darwin in 1868, 50 years after the camera was invented:

    Image result for charles darwin

    There are even photographs of him. He exists! He published a book! He traveled around the world documenting species in places like the Galapagos islands which I can guarantee you can find in the Galapagos islands. Discredit this and we can conclude that Darwin exists. I try to respond to everything you have to say no matter how ridiculous it sounds, do that same for me. You didn't so it in this last post with the one thing I asked you to respond to.

    "Well, if they say Jesus didn't exist, I can claim Darwin didn't exist. But fine, humor me, let's say he existed, and that he observed how different finches on the Galapagos islands had different beaks specializing in what they ate. He noticed that some finches have smaller beaks then some others, well that was very observant of him, but explain to me as to what made him think that animals speciate into other species over time to specialize in things and to survive? How many millions of years did this Darwin fella watch animals to think they change from one species into another? .. and by what, because he seen different finches with different color feathers and different sized beaks? So what was his "evolution opinion" on humans who have some really long noses?"

    Do long noses matter? Do will people with long noses be more beneficial or be considered in this day and age more sexy? If so, more people in the future will have long noses.


    Are you sure it was Darwin who published the book and not his white-supremacist Masonic Illuminati brothers who did that and just put some of the things they heard him say in there?
    Pictures could be of anyone, even with a name typed or written under it, or back of it.
    Look, I am not saying Darwin really didn't exist, I just brought it up to show you that we can deny anyone's work, and even existence, even people who are alive today.
    Do you know about this, since you're only what, 14? (If you really are, I would sure love to meet you and your parents, .. seriously, and have a face-to face, heart-to-heart conversation with you and your family. I have a couple of children who are advanced, but their interest is nothing like yours, debating like you do, I could never, not yet anyways, get them to do that.
    Anyways, here;

    On Jan. 28, 1986, the space shuttle Challenger exploded just 73 seconds after blasting off from Florida's Kennedy Space Center, killing all seven astronauts on board — including New Hampshire educator Christa McAuliffe, a civilian who had been selected to fly via NASA's "Teacher in Space"

    Yet I have seen pictures of all 7 using different names, different hair styles living, working.
    You see, once you realize that space is fake and NASATAN would never actually send up their people knowing there is no way for them to go beyond the Dome, so this is all faked. NASATAN is built on lies, drama, and of course a close, step by step follow of the TV shows and movies they put out before any major event they are going to lay on us. I'm sure you were aware of that, right?

    The evidence of Christ goes far deeper than a lack of a photo (I reject the Shroud of Turin's legitimacy as just more of Christian Religions lies) You do realize that the year we have on our Calendars 2018 is counted by "After Christs Death A.D., or A.E. After his ascension back to Heaven", right?

    I put the long noses to show you it has nothing to do with either human evolution, or short and long beaked finch evolution.
    Besides, your next comment: Do long noses matter? Do will people with long noses be more beneficial or be considered in this day and age more sexy? If so, more people in the future will have long noses.
    is another Evolutionist rhetoric. Why didn't you agree with me on them evolving feathers? See how Evolutionists cherry-pick to try to prove their Religious Doctrines? Look how they respond to, .. not long noses, because that doesn't fit their story, .. but a family that walks on all fours:



    Why? Because it fits with their discriminating evolution story that we are animals, apes. So Evolutionists are not just grave robbing skull and bones worshipping Satanists, but hypocrites too!

    Evidence: "Show me One, .. just One video, or picture, or documented event of one species mutating into, or giving birth to two separate distinct species, .. just one? Did they say that the none-existent Darwin seen such a thing?

    It's been 2.5 billion Carl Sagan years since the wet salty rock gave birth to the first amoeba, shouldn't we be seeing billions of species speciating everywhere by now? Like the two ladies above, shouldn't they be growing feathers and flying South for the winter by now?"

    This is a straw man of evolution. It's not ape to human in one generation. It's like this:

    Gen 1: Homo Erectus

    Gen 1000: Noticeably taller and losing hair die to increased use of clothes

    Gen 5000: Getting larger head and brain

    Gen 10,000: Brain it it's peak size, almost fully developed, and full height

    Gen 30,000: Head and brain gets a bit smaller to be more compact

    Gen 35,000: Humans as we know today

    Of course this isn't exactly how it would happen, just a picture. Sure, along the way there would be bumps such as unnecessarily longer noses, but these things will be mitigated through natural selection, being out bred, in this case. If you don't know how something is out bred, ask me in your rebuttal.


    Again, I did not say "ape to human" since Evolutionists refer to us as animals, a family of apes. We are already homogenized and taxonimized as apes. If you're going to defend Evolution, you have to remember that you are an ape, just another animals within the 8 million animal species living today, OK?

    Our discussion is really about the mysterious, never found, and if they do find some pieces of bones that they choose to use as evidence of the "missing-link" which they call Common Ancestor so they wouldn't have to explain what species it was, is about how that 'common ancestor' changed/speciated/morphed or gave birth to the other common ancestor, and another new species? Do I have to show you Dawkins family tree poster again?

    Now look at time 0:27



    do you see and hear what he is saying? This is the common ancestor I am asking you about!? Here step by step is my question:

    we have a 'common ancestor' at time 0:28
    * over millions and billions of Carl Sagan years some of their families split up, ..
    * they start changing, even though they live on the same floating tectonic plate, same sun, same moon, same air, same rain, survive the drought, .. they do survive right, otherwise they can't bring about those new species, .. same food source or lack of it, but they change, one goes and moves a few miles down the river, the other stays and for some unexplained reason, could be that one family found some carrots across the river, but they continue to change, BUT they are both the same species that Satanists, .. sorry I meant Evolutionists call 'common ancestor'.

    Now HERE is where my question lies: millions of years passed, the one family (time 0:29) going to the right towards the white suburban housewife just about lost their hair, grown bigger brain, built a wheel that they have no idea what to use it for so they carry it around with them (you can actually see this in many cartoons drawn over the past 150 years), built a fire and for some strange reason greatly cut back eating nuts and fruits and bananas which their cousins across the stream continue eating, and started staring at other animals, and contemplated on how delicious they would be roasted on the fire!?!? Then, realizing how they were for loosing their fur, start sowing and putting leaves all over their bodies, .. we can go on and on for millions and if you want more time, lets wait another billion years, and here is this hairless ape, .. the genetic code say it is NOT yet a human, .. still a monkey type with still a genius 'common ancestor', .. What Happens next?

    Lets look at the family of common ancestors that went to the right, towards the white woman:
    A. One, or more families suddenly morph over night into humans, and the rest die out for some reason
    B. one family, or they all give birth to human babies and they die like Salmon
    C. or what? Please explain what happens next? HOW do these big brained, naked gorilla-like apes change over to being human? we waited, .. oh let's just give it plenty of time, so we waited 4.2 billion years from rock, to amoeba to common ancestor, so the Moment has come to change from this gorilla-like hairless big brained 'common ancestor' to human. How Is it Done??

    Now let's not forget the group living across the river who decided to keep their fur over growing bigger brains, remained far stronger because they kept eating the same fruits and vegies, but they were still 'common ancestors' (see video) not identified with either gorilla (to the far right) or human, or any specific species really, so they do what?
     (Time 0:36) as you can see Dr. of Evolution Mr. Dawkins showing us there, that they morphed into, or changed into, or gave birth of two distinct species, one a chimp, and the other a bonobo, and of course after this, they too died. Just like the billions of other common animal ancestors have every time they made that change into another species!

    OK, so tell me please, your above example is based on what? Is it based on scientific observation of this 'common ancestor loosing its hair, watching its skull get larger, its brain developing? Have they done IQ tests to prove each of these brain-developing stages? Or is this all based on Satanists starring at some of their collection of skull and bone fragments dug up from graves?

    Evidence -"My screen name is Evidence, so can you show me evidence of this guy you call Darwin besides some funny ape-like picture they made up of him? And the book, anyone could have wrote that. I'm sure either the KKK wrote it, so they could have an excuse to kill Negros because they can now label and categorize them as animals, and their Satanist brothers wanted to have an excuse to rob graves of skull & bones, so they wouldn't keep getting arrested.

    As for the Nobel prize, heck, even Arafat got one of those for his suicide bomb squad. They give those away to just about anyone. Didn't Stephen Hawking's 70's answering machine get one too? And look how many books that 70's answering machine wrote!"

    Agility_Dude - Evidence that the intent of the book was made for that purpose? It's ironic don't you think?





    "Blind humans develop their hearing, deaf and dumb people their senses through their feet and read lips, but not one has ever changed/speciated into a monkey or some other creature. Don't show us blind fish, show us how this fish changes into a lizard, .. that's what we want to see! We want to see Evolution in action, Not skull and bones, not a bunch of fossilized bugs and skins, but evolution-in-action! I can show you 8 million different living species that God has carefully created, each one so different that Adam could never get bored bird watching, or bug collecting, or catching different butterflies for his collection. Why do you think Darwin went to the Galapagos Islands, to watch animals evolving/speciating? Lol. Of course not.

    Wait, I mean you do know that Evolutionists, this includes Dawkins, say that no living species of any kind has ever evolved/speciated/morphed/gave birth to any other species in their lifetime, right? In other words, evolutionists admit that speciation/evolution never happens, so why do you keep trying to push this Evolution junk?"

    First of all, blind and deaf human's other senses can only go so far. They would naturally die due to natural selection. Speciation is a strawman of evolution, as I explained in a previous paragraph.

    "So the species are not perfect? Show me one healthy (not the ones Dr. Mengele type Satanist Evolutionists are experimenting on) species from the 8 million that are not perfect? Just one? 

    You mean: blind cave tetra, the appendix, the pinky toe, and the claws under an emu's wings, .. keep going, tonsils, two lungs instead one good one that can handle the oxygen need, penis and testicles between our legs that rub as we walk, two ears on the side instead of one big one on our forehead shaped like a satellite dish, .. and look how we evolved the ape hair off our bodies where now we need warm clothes not like our smarter ape cousins!"

    Now note that this contradicts the idea of intelligent design which you are leading to because why would a creator put these things in? I really need an answer to this question. A few of those examples which you imply would be beneficial would not be beneficial to a person, which you imply disproves evolution. Here's why:

    The two lungs are there because everything else was occupied by something else beneficial to the body, one big ear on the forehead would be bad because then you couldn't hear where a predator was coming from if you heard it, and the creation of clothing removed the necessity for hair. There.


    After 4.2 billion years of your Evolution, and yet we have so many wonderful, healthy working deaf/dumb mutes, what happened? All the billions of common ancestors died, yet the deaf are still here, even after the mighty dinosaurs!/

    What? You said: The two lungs are there because everything else was occupied by something else beneficial to the body? lol why not evolve one, would take less room and faster evolution time than combining two don't you think? This is about survival, why go the extra mile when survival is so critical!?

    Agility_Dude Now note that this contradicts the idea of intelligent design which you are leading to because why would a creator put these things in? I really need an answer to this question.

    First, ask why did Father Time make Mother Nature put our esophagus next to the larynx while they are both open? Imagine how many billions of common ancestors choked before Mother Nature evolved the esophageal sphincter to direct the food away from our lungs? it didn't just appear overnight remember? How many billions, is there a study on all them animals that choked to death, or are presently choking during evolution? You know, the billions upon billions of extinct species, or wait, you can't see this in the skull and bones, right? But we should be seeing it in the existing Evolution of all 8 million species, from the amoeba to human evolving at the same time, right?
    Can you show us all the bad-mutations that evolution is evolving without a plan, or design, or will of anyone or anything? Not the ones that died, but the ones that are dying? Evolution happens, right?

    You Know that you are defending lies your parents are teaching you, all one has to do, even if your just 14 or even 4 of 5 years old is take a look at the design:

    Image result for pic of esophagus


    If this was by trial and error mutation, there would be millions and even billions times more of the dying than the living, and even at your young age you should figure that out. But even that's if we took the ridiculous idea that something could evolve from a rock.

    Have you ever put a robot together and program it? OR, you could just go to Radio Shack and ask the salesclerk for boxes that've been sitting on the shelf for a long time, they may be half assembled by now.

    Agility_Dude They all evolved differently to take advantage of different food sources. I explained this before so pay attention: Plants evolved to take advantage of the sun, herbivores evolved to take advantage of the plants, and carnivores evolved to take advantage of the herbivores. I don't understand how this doesn't make sense, you just assert that it doesn't.

    I take advantage of the sun, why didn't I evolve into a plant? What you are saying is that this was all planned, the plants to feed the herbivores, that are eaten by the carnivores.
    Now explain this within Evolution context, start with the amoeba. Why would the amoeba want to evolve to be eaten or run all the time, when evolution is about survival?
    Here, let me help you son, here is the first amoeba. It looks at the sun and says "Evolve I must, I want to be strong and reach the sun, .." now you explain how plants and humans evolved from there? Remember, no creature needs anything in evolution, there is no such thing as selection, what happens, happens through chaos, not some precise order. And don't forget to show us this in real life, like an intelligent scientific minded fella: "Here uncle Evidence, see how this creature dying here after 2.5 Billion years a bone is evolving through it's scull, and no ears nor eyes, .. it will die, like you see all the billions of dying creatures around us. This is why I and my dad believe in Evolution!"

    Then I would understand. But since no Evolutionist can show us, me and @Erfisflat even one illusive and mysterious creature that EVERY creature on earth evolved from, this non-existent creature they call; common ancestor, well son, you have absolutely nothing to build on, let alone debate under the tittle science.

    But I'll entertain you since you're young and I know how gullible kids can be, hoping you get out of this demonic Evolution Religion. I honestly do, because if you really are only 14, you could easily become a doctor, even a surgeon and operate on us humans with the belief that we are nothing but animals, apes. That scares me, and I have a lot of reasons to.

    Now imagine going into the hospital for a serious neck surgery, remember laying on the stretcher, IV started, pushed into the surgery room, .. told that now they will put me out, .. gave the OK that I understand, and Poof! I'm out.
    Next thing I know is that I'm coming to, and first my hearing comes back, and I hear two men speaking in German.
    I then wake right up, not drowsy, but as if someone shot me up with gallon of caffeine.
    I look around and I am with two guys dressed as doctors, I believe one was my anesthesiologist, and laughing they push a paper, some document under my hand and say: "Here, sign this!"
    Confused but wide awake I ask: "What? What for? What is this?"
    One doctor answers: "In case you die, this is that you gave us permission to do surgery on you!"
    Me: "I already did all this, what, you planning to kill me?"
    Doctor: "Well, you never know what could happen?"

    Confused, .. I tried signing but my hand just dropped to my side.
    Doctor to the other one: "OK put him out!"

    I wake up in my hospital bed, in horrible pain. I can't move either arm, and for the next few days they leave me unattended, no food, no drink and I can't push the buzzer, and when I yelled out the door, the German nurse called Susan came and closed it.
    On a Shift change a CNA came in to take vitals. When she seen my temperature, she gasped. She hit the emergency button, and told me she has to get the nurse immediately.
    I hear her outside the hall telling the nurse that my temperature is over 104F and the nurse told her: "Ok, ok, calm down and just go do the rest of the vitals and I will take care of this!" And she did, she lifted me into a chair, and I sat there all day till the next shift came in. Until then, no one was allowed in to the room anymore, and they knew I couldn't move my arms, and to stand up with a huge cut in my neck was impossible with no pain killers.

    If anyone who is not German reading this want verification of this incident, and about a hundred or more even more dangerous attempts on my life, just ask, and I will provide it.
    The reason I'm telling you all this Agility_Dude, is for the benefit of a doubt, that you would consider your quest on defending this demonic BB-Evolution agenda that is only to make it easier for Them to kill us all.

    Evidence - "Really, .. they needed it? Evolution is supposedly; no will or plan of anyone or anything, .. and the bunnies "needed it"?
    How about; the wolves and other carnivores needed it, so God made sure they have plenty of it."

    Agility_Dude Yes they needed it to survive, so the ones that evolve higher reproduction rate and to be faster will be more successful than ones that don't have these qualities. It happened randomly and rabbits spontaneously gradually evolved a higher reproduction rate and better legs.

    Yes, so we can have plenty of rabbit for dinner, and I do like the legs best, than you my Lord!

    Evidence - , I can shoot all the remaining gorillas in a week, and they'd be extinct. I mean what were those hairy muscle-heads thinking? They waisted 60 million years evolving muscles while they could have evolved brains instead!?

    Agility_Dude We created guns so quickly that gorillas don't have time to respond, and there would have to be too many body modifications to the gorilla for it to even be remotely possible for it to evolve to survive hunters

    You haven't watched the planet of the apes, have you? Besides, I thought you said that their whole plan was to evolve more muscles, so why don't they use them? I don't mean body modifications while the gun is pointing at their heads, I meant the same tectonic plate, same food, same evolution-time, same everything starting from amoeba like we human apes had. They made some bad choices haven't they. We must have started off with smarter amoeba, and made all the right selections as they came up over the millions and billions of years? They should never have moved to those bushes a few hundred yards away from us with the bigger bananas, that's what did them in. I guess some animals just don't know how to select, they forget that Evolution is all about "selection"!

    Evidence -"Evolution is obviously false, now throw up a coin and call it: heads you accept the Muslim god, and tails, you get beheaded, .. I mean you go extinct. Either way, it's Not your choice. It's all evolution. It's your environment and the egg Mc-muffin that you ate that will determine your decision, remember? Your mind is created by the influence on your brain by your environment and the food you ate for breakfast. besides, both Religions worship the same god/gods. Christianity created Islam.
    Or, .. you can open the Bible and with what you already know about all the lies out there of the Big-Bang that Globetard's don't know what's it expanding in, .. and Evolutionist even admit that Evolution never happens, so you have a head start, now you can concentrate on reading and studying the Bible, and see if you can find God in His Word, and in real science. Until of course NASA can provide a real picture of Globe Earth, and CERN tell us what medium the quantum speck Big-Banged in?"

    Agility_Dude First of all, even though Christianity created Islam Islam dictates that you must either be a very good person and or a Muslim in order to go to heaven. If Islam was true and I died right now I would probably go to hell. I'm not a saint by any means I admit that. As for the bible, I want to read all of it someday. I try really hard to discipline myself to what I think is important, but I don't go very far. Maybe I can discipline myself to read 20-50 pages of the bible everyday.

    In conclusion, I have tried to respond to all of your points in the debate. I feel that you have not done that on your part. If I haven't on my part, let me know. Thank you!

    Tell me what parts I left out, because if I know that I answered something in our previous debates, I skip over it.
    Yes, discipline is part of it, but Jesus made it much easier than the Religions have it, and none of them really accept Jesus, nor God as they are described in the Bible, and as we can observe them in us, for we were created in His, in their image:

    Adam in Gods image, and Eve in the son Words.
    Just as God beget His son Word, Adam (with the help of God of course) beget Eve.

    Look, I am tired answering the same problems you have in your understanding of evolution story, you still haven't answered my original question: "How does a common ancestor evolve/speciate/morph/or give birth to the two other species, and why won't They-that-Live" define what species the billions of common ancestors are? And we KNOW we have at least 8 million living species, there should be at least 16 million common ancestors, maybe a few dying, but still, .. where are they? If we could just catch one, we could put a camera on it and watch how they give rise to two other species, and then disappear without a trace, .. right?

    And please respond to each of us separately, we do.
  • pocopoco 93 Pts   -  

    The pull of gravity

    Here's an interesting fact about mass: It attracts things to it. The force of attraction (gravity) between two objects depends on their mass and the distance between them. Simply said, gravity will pull toward the center of mass of the objects. To find the center of mass, you have to examine the object.

    a spheres center of mass

    A sphere's center of mass

    On a sphere's surface, gravity will pull you toward the sphere's center of mass: straight down.

    Moriel Schottlender

    Consider a sphere. Since a sphere has a consistent shape, no matter where on it you stand, you have exactly the same amount of sphere under you. (Imagine an ant walking around on a crystal ball. From the insect's point of view, the only indication of movement would be the fact the ant is moving its feet—the shape of the surface would not change at all.) A sphere's center of mass is in the center of the sphere, which means gravity will pull anything on the surface of the sphere straight down toward the center of the sphere. This will occur no matter where on the surface the object is located.

    Consider a flat plane. The center of mass of a flat plane is in its center, so the force of gravity will pull anything on the surface toward the middle of the plane. That means that if you stand on the edge of the plane, gravity will be pulling you sideways toward the plane's middle, not straight down like you usually experience when you stand on Earth.

    a planes center of mass

    A plane's center of mass

    A plane's center of mass is in its middle—which means that gravity should pull objects toward the center of the plane.

    Moriel Schottlender

    I am quite positive that, even for Australians, an apple falls downwards, not sideways. But if you have your doubts, I urge you to try dropping something—just make sure it’s nothing that can break or hurt you.

    For further reading about the center of mass and distribution of mass, check out this link. And if you are brave enough to handle some equations (not involving integration), you can learn more about Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation here.


    Evidence
  • pocopoco 93 Pts   -  

    The pull of gravity

    Here's an interesting fact about mass: It attracts things to it. The force of attraction (gravity) between two objects depends on their mass and the distance between them. Simply said, gravity will pull toward the center of mass of the objects. To find the center of mass, you have to examine the object.

    a spheres center of mass

    A sphere's center of mass

    On a sphere's surface, gravity will pull you toward the sphere's center of mass: straight down.

    Moriel Schottlender

    Consider a sphere. Since a sphere has a consistent shape, no matter where on it you stand, you have exactly the same amount of sphere under you. (Imagine an ant walking around on a crystal ball. From the insect's point of view, the only indication of movement would be the fact the ant is moving its feet—the shape of the surface would not change at all.) A sphere's center of mass is in the center of the sphere, which means gravity will pull anything on the surface of the sphere straight down toward the center of the sphere. This will occur no matter where on the surface the object is located.

    Consider a flat plane. The center of mass of a flat plane is in its center, so the force of gravity will pull anything on the surface toward the middle of the plane. That means that if you stand on the edge of the plane, gravity will be pulling you sideways toward the plane's middle, not straight down like you usually experience when you stand on Earth.

    a planes center of mass

    A plane's center of mass

    A plane's center of mass is in its middle—which means that gravity should pull objects toward the center of the plane.

    Moriel Schottlender

    I am quite positive that, even for Australians, an apple falls downwards, not sideways. But if you have your doubts, I urge you to try dropping something—just make sure it’s nothing that can break or hurt you.

    For further reading about the center of mass and distribution of mass, check out this link. And if you are brave enough to handle some equations (not involving integration), you can learn more about Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation here.


  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    poco said:

    The pull of gravity

    Here's an interesting fact about mass: It attracts things to it. The force of attraction (gravity) between two objects depends on their mass and the distance between them. Simply said, gravity will pull toward the center of mass of the objects. To find the center of mass, you have to examine the object.

    a spheres center of mass

    A sphere's center of mass

    On a sphere's surface, gravity will pull you toward the sphere's center of mass: straight down.

    Moriel Schottlender

    Consider a sphere. Since a sphere has a consistent shape, no matter where on it you stand, you have exactly the same amount of sphere under you. (Imagine an ant walking around on a crystal ball. From the insect's point of view, the only indication of movement would be the fact the ant is moving its feet—the shape of the surface would not change at all.) A sphere's center of mass is in the center of the sphere, which means gravity will pull anything on the surface of the sphere straight down toward the center of the sphere. This will occur no matter where on the surface the object is located.

    Consider a flat plane. The center of mass of a flat plane is in its center, so the force of gravity will pull anything on the surface toward the middle of the plane. That means that if you stand on the edge of the plane, gravity will be pulling you sideways toward the plane's middle, not straight down like you usually experience when you stand on Earth.

    a planes center of mass

    A plane's center of mass

    A plane's center of mass is in its middle—which means that gravity should pull objects toward the center of the plane.

    Moriel Schottlender

    I am quite positive that, even for Australians, an apple falls downwards, not sideways. But if you have your doubts, I urge you to try dropping something—just make sure it’s nothing that can break or hurt you.

    For further reading about the center of mass and distribution of mass, check out this link. And if you are brave enough to handle some equations (not involving integration), you can learn more about Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation here.


    Ok, this evidence is based on assumptions that were heaped on other assumptions. It seems like Evidence and I have covered gravity repeatedly, but I don't really want the conversation to end think that I haven't fully explained why the theory of gravity does not prove anything.

    Gravity is an ad hoc theory that was meant to explain the question posed to logical thinkers that were posed the theory, which was now an assumption, that the earth was a sphere. You, and popsci are now trying to prove the assumption with the theory.

    Aside from the assumption that the earth is a ball, gravity also makes the assumption: "mass attracts mass" of course we see the mass of a magnet attracting another magnet or a piece of metal, but any object is not attracted to any other object, which is the basis of the theory. 

    If the earth were an infinite plane, would the theoretical gravity still turn it into a ball? As I said, my proofs are not theoretical, they are empirical. Measure water or watch someone else do it, you will see there is no curve. If there is not curved water, then the earth could not possibly be a ball that is 25,000 miles in circumference. If the earth is not a ball that is 25,000 miles in circumference, then we can abandon the theory of gravity. For further reading on the farcical theory of gravity, see the debate: "space, time gravity and other lies".
    Evidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    poco said:

    The pull of gravity

    Here's an interesting fact about mass: It attracts things to it. The force of attraction (gravity) between two objects depends on their mass and the distance between them. Simply said, gravity will pull toward the center of mass of the objects. To find the center of mass, you have to examine the object.

    a spheres center of mass

    A sphere's center of mass

    On a sphere's surface, gravity will pull you toward the sphere's center of mass: straight down.

    Moriel Schottlender

    Consider a sphere. Since a sphere has a consistent shape, no matter where on it you stand, you have exactly the same amount of sphere under you. (Imagine an ant walking around on a crystal ball. From the insect's point of view, the only indication of movement would be the fact the ant is moving its feet—the shape of the surface would not change at all.) A sphere's center of mass is in the center of the sphere, which means gravity will pull anything on the surface of the sphere straight down toward the center of the sphere. This will occur no matter where on the surface the object is located.

    Consider a flat plane. The center of mass of a flat plane is in its center, so the force of gravity will pull anything on the surface toward the middle of the plane. That means that if you stand on the edge of the plane, gravity will be pulling you sideways toward the plane's middle, not straight down like you usually experience when you stand on Earth.

    a planes center of mass

    A plane's center of mass

    A plane's center of mass is in its middle—which means that gravity should pull objects toward the center of the plane.

    Moriel Schottlender

    I am quite positive that, even for Australians, an apple falls downwards, not sideways. But if you have your doubts, I urge you to try dropping something—just make sure it’s nothing that can break or hurt you.

    For further reading about the center of mass and distribution of mass, check out this link. And if you are brave enough to handle some equations (not involving integration), you can learn more about Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation here.



    @poco if gravity was real, why did both the bowling ball and the feather in NASA's vacuum chamber fall to the ground at exactly the same time, If:

    1. Gravity is the "force" that attracts a body to the center of the earth, or ANY other physical body having mass.

    2. This means that anything with mass has a gravitational force.

    3. Gravity pulls falling objects to the ground.

    4. It applies to objects of all sizes, stating that the more mass an object had, the more it attracted other objects.


    So the bowling ball should have fallen far sooner.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    poco said:

    The pull of gravity

    Here's an interesting fact about mass: It attracts things to it. The force of attraction (gravity) between two objects depends on their mass and the distance between them. Simply said, gravity will pull toward the center of mass of the objects. To find the center of mass, you have to examine the object.

    a spheres center of mass

    A sphere's center of mass

    On a sphere's surface, gravity will pull you toward the sphere's center of mass: straight down.

    Moriel Schottlender

    Consider a sphere. Since a sphere has a consistent shape, no matter where on it you stand, you have exactly the same amount of sphere under you. (Imagine an ant walking around on a crystal ball. From the insect's point of view, the only indication of movement would be the fact the ant is moving its feet—the shape of the surface would not change at all.) A sphere's center of mass is in the center of the sphere, which means gravity will pull anything on the surface of the sphere straight down toward the center of the sphere. This will occur no matter where on the surface the object is located.

    Consider a flat plane. The center of mass of a flat plane is in its center, so the force of gravity will pull anything on the surface toward the middle of the plane. That means that if you stand on the edge of the plane, gravity will be pulling you sideways toward the plane's middle, not straight down like you usually experience when you stand on Earth.

    a planes center of mass

    A plane's center of mass

    A plane's center of mass is in its middle—which means that gravity should pull objects toward the center of the plane.

    Moriel Schottlender

    I am quite positive that, even for Australians, an apple falls downwards, not sideways. But if you have your doubts, I urge you to try dropping something—just make sure it’s nothing that can break or hurt you.

    For further reading about the center of mass and distribution of mass, check out this link. And if you are brave enough to handle some equations (not involving integration), you can learn more about Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation here.



    @poco if gravity was real, why did both the bowling ball and the feather in NASA's vacuum chamber fall to the ground at exactly the same time, If:

    1. Gravity is the "force" that attracts a body to the center of the earth, or ANY other physical body having mass.

    2. This means that anything with mass has a gravitational force.

    3. Gravity pulls falling objects to the ground.

    4. It applies to objects of all sizes, stating that the more mass an object had, the more it attracted other objects.


    So the bowling ball should have fallen far sooner.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @poco ;
    You do know that lbs. grams, kg.  is not a real thing, right? Just like time, feet, miles, space etc. aren't either, so please, as Erfisflat said; we explained all this in "Gravity, space, time and other lies".

    We call something traveling towards its buoyancy point in a vacuum at 9.807 meters per second squared "weight".  The same thing applies to an object/gas that has less mass than air going towards heaven seeking its buoyancy rest somewhere up there. God labeled Heaven as "up" and earth as "down".

    Only in sci-fiction can this magical gravity both pull and push at the same time. It expand your universe, while pulls all objects with mass towards each other.  It can cause a "Big Bang" of a sudden inflation, and is said that it will eventually cause a "Big Crunch" of a sudden deflation. I must admit that science fiction is an exciting and fun idea to get into, but please, ..  let's be realistic, or scientific about this, so enough of this nonsense.
  • pocopoco 93 Pts   -  
    you:if gravity was real, why did both the bowling ball and the feather in NASA's vacuum chamber fall to the ground at exactly the same time, If:

    1. Gravity is the "force" that attracts a body to the center of the earth, or ANY other physical body having mass.

    2. This means that anything with mass has a gravitational force.

    3. Gravity pulls falling objects to the ground.

    4. It applies to objects of all sizes, stating that the more mass an object had, the more it attracted other objects.


    So the bowling ball should have fallen far sooner.


    me:  Sorry but, In a vacuum, gravity causes all objects to fall at the same rate. The mass of the object does not matter. If a person drops a hammer and a feather, air will make the feather fall more slowly. But if there were no air, they would fall at the same acceleration.


  • pocopoco 93 Pts   -  
    you: Only in sci-fiction can this magical gravity both pull and push at the same time. It expand your universe, while pulls all objects with mass towards each other.  It can cause a "Big Bang" of a sudden inflation, and is said that it will eventually cause a "Big Crunch" of a sudden deflation. I must admit that science fiction is an exciting and fun idea to get into, but please, ..  let's be realistic, or scientific about this, so enough of this nonsense.


    me:  You could derive the gravitational force from the expansion of space. As space expands, the earth sinks into the gravitational well with which we are familiar. This sort of gravity only looks like it is pulling us down to earth because the surrounding space is expanding, but really it is neither pushing nor pulling.

    Throughout all of your discussions, you seem to deflect arguments of the laws of physics re gravity.  You do not disprove them.  What you guys do is use other examples in an attempt to prove ...... something else, which I'm not sure what it is.  You deny gravity, altho do not prove there is physics to the contrary.  Like the rubber band "proof."  There are other forces involved in this example, while only gravity in a vacuum is present with the bowling ball/feather example.  To prove something is or is not correct, the experiment must not introduce other factors bc they will influence the outcome.


    You're right about one thing ..... "so, enough of this nonsense." 



  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    poco said:
    you:if gravity was real, why did both the bowling ball and the feather in NASA's vacuum chamber fall to the ground at exactly the same time, If:

    1. Gravity is the "force" that attracts a body to the center of the earth, or ANY other physical body having mass.

    2. This means that anything with mass has a gravitational force.

    3. Gravity pulls falling objects to the ground.

    4. It applies to objects of all sizes, stating that the more mass an object had, the more it attracted other objects.


    So the bowling ball should have fallen far sooner.


    me:  Sorry but, In a vacuum, gravity causes all objects to fall at the same rate. The mass of the object does not matter. If a person drops a hammer and a feather, air will make the feather fall more slowly. But if there were no air, they would fall at the same acceleration.


    @poco
    Exactly, because there is no gravity, only density/mass traveling to it's buoyancy point of rest within whatever medium it is taking place in. In a vacuum chamber where the air is removed, we can see that all things move at the same rate towards their buoyance rest. If gravity existed as described by the rules of gravity, the bowling ball would have traveled faster, using logic and math.
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    Thanks for your response. I have room for one more. 

    Adam and Eve were cursed, but so were the animals, earthly curses, life would be hard for them; there is no mention of original sin anywhere in Genesis, and Christians, or Followers of the Way, are afraid of this; they work hard to cover it up, to convince more Jews. Is Jesus the path to life? Not sure, don't think so. Should't we do our best to make the world like the garden again? Isn't doing good more like it, rather than relying on someone else to do our job for us? 

    You then mention my remark on "unintentional sins," stealing, for example, isn't a good example of that. A good example would be turning your car on Shabbat. It was an accident, that's the meaning behind it. Point is, blood offerings were mostly used just for that, not intentional sins, like (i.e., stealing). Therefore, Jesus, if he was the final offering (which contradicts Ezekiel, who says sacrifices will be here again), then he could have only died for your "accidental" sins. Eye for an eye is just metaphor, at least that's how the Talmud sees it, and if Moshe had the Oral Law, then that's the only way it ever made any sense. Buying the sacrifices was good, it kept the Temple running. Yes, a market is needed. What's wrong with that? G-d intended us to do such. What Jesus did when he overturned the tables was turn their world upside down, he was also preventing the people from having their sins forgiven, THE WAY G-D PROVIDED IT. 

    Yes, Jesus might have not come to destroy the law, but Paul did! He said the law was a curse, don't think so! The law is beautiful, why would G-d have given us the instruction of Torah if He knew we couldn't keep it? Why would the longest chapter of the Book of Psalm spend so much time on its heritage, its beauty, and how we can connect to G-d through it, if we're really lost with it? Yes! You got it! We're meant to break Torah - we're human, it happens - but that doesn't mean we just throw our heads down either! We do better, we learn from our mistakes, and G-d heals all wounds. 

    You mention the gays of Tel Aviv, I cannot speak for them, they chose that route in life, and I'm not going to stop them either. Some of them can be really bright people, actually. I have no issue with them, it's not my concern. However, you cannot bottle us all in there, we're working on world peace, we're getting there (I hope!). . . and the righteous remnant of Israel will succeed. It has always been this way, if we do good, the Messiah will come today. We just have to will it. Picking and choosing, and saying that "some Jews are wrong" won't help your case by far. Again, my concern is not about Hollywood, or about how, or what, some Jews do with themselves. You're forgetting that there are over 2 million of us who FOLLOW Judaism, and live by it. They're spiritual people, y'know. And it's not just us, there are many Gentiles who are also gay, yet you don't blame them, do you? They too commit - what you'd call - liberal acts. Is that bad? No. Let some slack in, G-d has no right squaring with us, per se, that was Avraham's point! Look at Christians, what are they doing for world peace? We're are "those people" heading? Look at the Catholic Church, so much wrong that goes on there - for real! Come on. You take one person at a time, not bunching them up all as a collective unit. G-d says that while He WILL have anger, it will always be short, and He'll always forgive us, because we choose to repent in the end. We're imperfect beings, if we weren't, like the Rambam said, we'd be G-d. But we ain't.  
     
    You say Jeremiah "hid" the name of Jesus for obvious reasons, I'd like to know them. Also, why did G-d choose to "hid" the name? What would He gain out of it? Division? Jews saying, "look, there's no Jesus there, he's name isn't mentioned," and Christians saying, "no, he's there alright." What's the point? Take off the Jesus glasses and read the Bible like it was meant to be read, G-d keeps no secrets, I already showed you the verse in Isaiah, why would He now?

    The killing of the firstborn via Herod was likely an attempt to "invent" some similarity with the Egyptian firstborn, they're incomparable; there is no outside evidence that Herod ever did anything in the slightest.

    One must KNOW Kabbalah before he claims, with authority, what it teaches. Even I'm not well-versed in it, that's why I asked you for a source. You point to me, but that hardly does it justice. The source is just non-existent, you made it up.

    You wrote: "Yes, I see the 353 prophesies, and of course these Jewish counter replies all look good to you right? It is, .. I am sorry to say, but pitifully poor debunking." Then debunk it, if its that easy. No one's done it yet. Here's the link again, good luck:  
     

    I don't speak Hungarian of Serbo-Croatian, the word "virgin" may be the same there, but not in Hebrew - to - English. It's just not. “ha’almah” (הָעַלְמָה) ("young girl") is NOT the same as the Septuagint's translation, a translation which tries to pass off as Rabbinic, which, though, clearly isn't. The Hebrew for virgin is another word, and Isaiah used it, I believe, five times, so he knew what he was doing, and he didn't bother to use it in those verses you say point to Mary or Jesus. Also, a virgin doesn't necessarily have to always be a young girl, she could well be 50, she just never had sex.  

    Hebrew, again, is not the same as any "other" language, it is very meticulous, one misspelling can throw an entire concept off, and the meaning, or the intent, is lost forever.   

    Lastly, I'm not interested in joining your "new movement" of Christianity. All modern cults say this. There's virtually no difference; Catholics say they were first, so do Mormons, Karaites, and Muslims; in truth, though, we know exactly when all these movements sprang up, but for some weird reason, they have trouble, as no one can point with precision with Pharisaic Judaism (or Rabbinic Judaism, if you will) developed. They have no idea, some say First Temple, others, Second Temple. We say it was there in the beginning. The great Jewish historian, Josephus, said that he examined all streams of Judaism, and in the end, chose the Pharisees, they were the most accurate in making halacha (Jewish law), and they were passed down from "our forefathers." What does Jeremiah and the Book of Devarim (Deuteronomy) have in common? They both tells us to follow our "fathers," and to do as "they teach." Even Jesus made this point clear when he supposedly said to do as the Pharisees command, for they sit in "Moses' seat."

    The trinity claim has no backing in the Hebrew Scriptures, but neither does Jesus.

    Thank you for debating, shalom (peace),
     
    Judaism
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism said:
    Evidence

    Thanks for your response. I have room for one more. 



    You then mention my remark on "unintentional sins," stealing, for example, isn't a good example of that. A good example would be turning your car on Shabbat. It was an accident, that's the meaning behind it. Point is, blood offerings were mostly used just for that, not intentional sins, like (i.e., stealing). Therefore, Jesus, if he was the final offering (which contradicts Ezekiel, who says sacrifices will be here again), then he could have only died for your "accidental" sins. Eye for an eye is just metaphor, at least that's how the Talmud sees it, and if Moshe had the Oral Law, then that's the only way it ever made any sense. Buying the sacrifices was good, it kept the Temple running. Yes, a market is needed. What's wrong with that? G-d intended us to do such. What Jesus did when he overturned the tables was turn their world upside down, he was also preventing the people from having their sins forgiven, THE WAY G-D PROVIDED IT. 

    Yes, Jesus might have not come to destroy the law, but Paul did! He said the law was a curse, don't think so! The law is beautiful, why would G-d have given us the instruction of Torah if He knew we couldn't keep it? Why would the longest chapter of the Book of Psalm spend so much time on its heritage, its beauty, and how we can connect to G-d through it, if we're really lost with it? Yes! You got it! We're meant to break Torah - we're human, it happens - but that doesn't mean we just throw our heads down either! We do better, we learn from our mistakes, and G-d heals all wounds. 

    You mention the gays of Tel Aviv, I cannot speak for them, they chose that route in life, and I'm not going to stop them either. Some of them can be really bright people, actually. I have no issue with them, it's not my concern. However, you cannot bottle us all in there, we're working on world peace, we're getting there (I hope!). . . and the righteous remnant of Israel will succeed. It has always been this way, if we do good, the Messiah will come today. We just have to will it. Picking and choosing, and saying that "some Jews are wrong" won't help your case by far. Again, my concern is not about Hollywood, or about how, or what, some Jews do with themselves. You're forgetting that there are over 2 million of us who FOLLOW Judaism, and live by it. They're spiritual people, y'know. And it's not just us, there are many Gentiles who are also gay, yet you don't blame them, do you? They too commit - what you'd call - liberal acts. Is that bad? No. Let some slack in, G-d has no right squaring with us, per se, that was Avraham's point! Look at Christians, what are they doing for world peace? We're are "those people" heading? Look at the Catholic Church, so much wrong that goes on there - for real! Come on. You take one person at a time, not bunching them up all as a collective unit. G-d says that while He WILL have anger, it will always be short, and He'll always forgive us, because we choose to repent in the end. We're imperfect beings, if we weren't, like the Rambam said, we'd be G-d. But we ain't.  
     
    You say Jeremiah "hid" the name of Jesus for obvious reasons, I'd like to know them. Also, why did G-d choose to "hid" the name? What would He gain out of it? Division? Jews saying, "look, there's no Jesus there, he's name isn't mentioned," and Christians saying, "no, he's there alright." What's the point? Take off the Jesus glasses and read the Bible like it was meant to be read, G-d keeps no secrets, I already showed you the verse in Isaiah, why would He now?

    The killing of the firstborn via Herod was likely an attempt to "invent" some similarity with the Egyptian firstborn, they're incomparable; there is no outside evidence that Herod ever did anything in the slightest.

    One must KNOW Kabbalah before he claims, with authority, what it teaches. Even I'm not well-versed in it, that's why I asked you for a source. You point to me, but that hardly does it justice. The source is just non-existent, you made it up.

    You wrote: "Yes, I see the 353 prophesies, and of course these Jewish counter replies all look good to you right? It is, .. I am sorry to say, but pitifully poor debunking." Then debunk it, if its that easy. No one's done it yet. Here's the link again, good luck:  
     

    I don't speak Hungarian of Serbo-Croatian, the word "virgin" may be the same there, but not in Hebrew - to - English. It's just not. “ha’almah” (הָעַלְמָה) ("young girl") is NOT the same as the Septuagint's translation, a translation which tries to pass off as Rabbinic, which, though, clearly isn't. The Hebrew for virgin is another word, and Isaiah used it, I believe, five times, so he knew what he was doing, and he didn't bother to use it in those verses you say point to Mary or Jesus. Also, a virgin doesn't necessarily have to always be a young girl, she could well be 50, she just never had sex.  

    Hebrew, again, is not the same as any "other" language, it is very meticulous, one misspelling can throw an entire concept off, and the meaning, or the intent, is lost forever.   

    Lastly, I'm not interested in joining your "new movement" of Christianity. All modern cults say this. There's virtually no difference; Catholics say they were first, so do Mormons, Karaites, and Muslims; in truth, though, we know exactly when all these movements sprang up, but for some weird reason, they have trouble, as no one can point with precision with Pharisaic Judaism (or Rabbinic Judaism, if you will) developed. They have no idea, some say First Temple, others, Second Temple. We say it was there in the beginning. The great Jewish historian, Josephus, said that he examined all streams of Judaism, and in the end, chose the Pharisees, they were the most accurate in making halacha (Jewish law), and they were passed down from "our forefathers." What does Jeremiah and the Book of Devarim (Deuteronomy) have in common? They both tells us to follow our "fathers," and to do as "they teach." Even Jesus made this point clear when he supposedly said to do as the Pharisees command, for they sit in "Moses' seat."

    The trinity claim has no backing in the Hebrew Scriptures, but neither does Jesus.

    Thank you for debating, shalom (peace),
     
    Judaism

    @Judaism ;
    Thanks for your reply.
    You said: Adam and Eve were cursed, but so were the animals, earthly curses, life would be hard for them; there is no mention of original sin anywhere in Genesis, and Christians, or Followers of the Way, are afraid of this; they work hard to cover it up, to convince more Jews. Is Jesus the path to life? Not sure, don't think so. Should't we do our best to make the world like the garden again? Isn't doing good more like it, rather than relying on someone else to do our job for us?

    So no Adam and Eve in Judaism? No "original sin"?
     It may not say it, but it's still the first breaking of Gods simple command which started all this suffering.

    Not sure if Jesus was your Messiah? Wow, and the Jews waited 2,000 years for this, .. not sure? Or it's really "Don't care". Besides, how could todays Jews accept Jesus, who was homophobic, He would drive out all the trannies and gays from Jerusalem, the gay-capital of the world, and they're proud of it!

    Yes, Christians want to convert the whole world to their triune-gods, .. and Jews have no need for the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob, they have the Talmud, what would they need Gods Word Jesus for, right?
    I mean you do know that the two triangles on their flag is the "As Above, So Below" sign, only moved the "so Below" triangle up so it would look somewhat like a star.
    Make the world the garden again? That is NOT what Jews are doing, .. but I guess it is very "colorful"

    Related image

    And there is the drinking, dancing and rejoicing in the streets
    Image result for pic of gay pride israel 

    Right where our Lord, the King of kings has taught, and was crucified by the Jews.

    Image result for pic of gay pride israel I kind of like this one, real Jewish!

    Is this cap pointing up to remind God about the flood? Kind of saying: "Remember, you said you won't destroy us again with the flood! So Nyeee, nyeee, .. in your face God, and we're doing all this right where your son Jesus walked and taught too!!!"
    Like Jesus said: "Lord forgive them for they know not what they do!" But in this case, because they use Noah's Rainbow that God set in the sky after the horror of having all life wiped off the earth, it proves they KNOW exactly what they are doing .. now that takes either guts, or just simply hate by Sodomites in their city that has now become Sodom and Egypt! 

    Judaism wrote: Lastly, I'm not interested in joining your "new movement" of Christianity.

    Not interested? Hmm, I wonder why? And I didn't ask you to join. Want to join, read the New Testament, and if you feel a flicker of light, you will seek me out.
    It's a 2,000 year old movement, where most of the disciples are in a place called "Abrahams bosom" and not Christianity. It is a call from the Lord for everyone, especially the Gentile Jesus loving, Bible believing Christians to get out of the RCC Vatican created Christian Babylon before it's too late, because for them the door is closing. There is just a few more that Jesus has called, who have just enough oil in their lamps left to find the door, that, not the sun-god Jesus, but our Messiah is about to SHUT!
    The people here in these gay-pride pictures might not even be Jews, just call themselves Jews, flying the flag of abomination with the "As Above, So Below" symbol on it:

    Image result for pic of the jewish star as above so below


    Revelation 3:7 ‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”: 8 “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

    The way I understand
    (I am not claiming I'm right on this, it is how I understand for now, which can change as new revelation arise)
    is that God will bring up and send Two Witnesses who will do the same kind of miracles as Moses, and Elijah have done, which hopefully revive the remnant of real Jews, remove the scales from their eyes and come to Jesus.

    Revelations 11:
    - the Two Witnesses killed:
    When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

    Now look at this crowd of peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations there in Israel "the great city where our Lord was crucified" and how John calls it Sodom and Egypt,

    Image result for pic of LGBT Israel

    and one can imagine how after the Witnesses are killed those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. "And those who dwell on the earth, watching CNN, NBC, CBS and other live-tv broadcasts  will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

    Anyways, it doesn't seem that I made even a little impact on your Religious beliefs, you are still right where you were when we started, so I will let you go. Unless you have any questions regarding Christ our Messiah, I will no longer keep entertaining your delusions, your 2,000 year old denial of Christ. You even support this LGBT-abomination, yet claim you know the Bible.

    Shalom
  • pocopoco 93 Pts   -  
    you:  Exactly, because there is no gravity, only density/mass traveling to it's buoyancy point of rest within whatever medium it is taking place in. In a vacuum chamber where the air is removed, we can see that all things move at the same rate towards their buoyance rest. If gravity existed as described by the rules of gravity, the bowling ball would have traveled faster, using logic and math.


    me:  You are forgetting the other factors that influence how mass travels, in this example anyway, when not in a vacuum.  Is there not air?

    Erfisflat
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    You're right, maybe it is best we end this conversation. 

    But "no Adam and Eve" you ask? What made you think that? Of course there's an Adam and Eve, they're not the first people though, they're were generations before them, those who evolved from apes. Yes, there was an Adam and Eve. Original Sin? That's more tricky, or does it have to be? The Hebrew Bible says no. There is not one single verse for original sin, and any which you will try to provide will be taken out of context. Always. Believe me, I've done this before.

    Again, you fail to note that NOT ALL Jews are gays. Its silly to state so. Are all Catholics pedophiles? Our Messiah will bring world peace and a world recognition of G-d. Jesus did neither. That's why we reject him, its for good reason, y'know! 

    "As Above, So Below" is from the Davinci Code, really? You're going to rely on a novel? The Star of David has nothing to do with that, even the star used by Hindus, the same star, has nothing to do with that description. And even if it did, sex, in Judaism (as long as its not lust) is a sacred act, I mean, how else are we to reproduce?

    You then mention that we follow the Talmud, as if it isn't part of the Bible. You don't know what Talmud is, without the Oral Law, there'd be no way one COULD follow the Bible. You think Talmud, perhaps the largest literary work ever produced, only concerns itself with hating Gentiles (not true), and stating that Jesus' mother was a whore (also not true, anti-Semites love this one)? If you believe that bull, you're not a Jew. Period. It's already just laughable. All you people, be it here, Facebook, or Youtube, claim to be Jewish. . . but then you're all CHRISTIAN! Come on, think we're that dumb?

    No, the Talmud IS the Bible. It's part II, without it, ONE COULDN'T EVEN READ THE BIBLE. IT WAS THE RABBIS, WHO, HAVING AN ORAL TRADITION, MADE HEBREW READABLE FOR THE GENTILES, WHICH THEY RELIED ON IN THEIR TRANSLATIONS.

    You're a hopeless case if you think the Jews killed Jesus. I don't have to explain to you what the REAL Pilate was like, not that paper cut out in the gospels. And if we did kill him, so what, so killed a guy one day. Who cares. Had he died of alzheimer's, you wouldn't have your salvation, so you should actually be praising us for it. You should kiss our feet!

    But how can you call your ancestors Jews when you think its all hogwash 101 anyway? I mean, if you truly think we're Khazars, or fake Jews calling ourselves Jews, why even bother with it all? Did you know the Khazar theory was started by an anti-Semite? Do you know my rabbi can trace himself back to King David? Don't you have a Sefer Yuchsin? No, you don't, hence why I know YOU'RE the pretend Jew, the Christian. A Christian, like most others, who go around saying, "look, I'm Jewish, but I believe in Jesus!" Hogwash 101.

    You're NT god seems kind of crazy, he creates everyone, then damns like, I donnu, 70% of all people to hell because they never heard of Jesus and weren't born Christian. Sound fair, right? Some merciful god, right? Bull. That's not the Jewish G-d, He doesn't go around damning all o creation, we're not some "Jewish club" y'know? G-d doesn't punish a Gentile because he never knew HaShem. No. Ever read the 13 Middot? Nah, you never did, did ya? Ever heard of shittuf? Of course not!  This all explains why you can't seem to understand a shred of Judaism, I mean, you don't even know what Talmud is? Have you been raised in a Jewish family, you would have never, NOT FOR A MOMENT, EVER conceive that the Talmud is somehow different, or replaced our Holy Torah. NEVER! And don't give me that "synagogue of Satan" bull, its hogwash 101. If we're the Devil, would I dare quote Scripture to you? Come on, pal!

    G-d said in Devarim that the Torah was now in our hands. That's how we see it.

    P.S., I don't "claim" to know the Bible, I know it in Hebrew and English, literally, forward and backwards!

    Again, this is all just a waste o time on both sides, Shalom. 
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    poco said:
    Evidence
    you:  Exactly, because there is no gravity, only density/mass traveling to it's buoyancy point of rest within whatever medium it is taking place in. In a vacuum chamber where the air is removed, we can see that all things move at the same rate towards their buoyance rest. If gravity existed as described by the rules of gravity, the bowling ball would have traveled faster, using logic and math.


    me:  You are forgetting the other factors that influence how mass travels, in this example anyway, when not in a vacuum.  Is there not air?


    poco

    What "other factors"?
    In air, mass/density like the bowling ball travels slower. In water even slower, why? because the air, or the water absorbs much of the mass from the bowling ball, like for us when we go swimming.
    In a vacuum, all they did was remove the air to eliminate the air resistance, especially on the feather, and we realize that gravity doesn't exist, like in the NASA vacuum chamber experiment.

    Read over the rules of gravity I keep posting, I didn't make that up, I took it off science sights explaining gravity.

    This is why "weight" is described by objects traveling either up, or down towards their place of buoyancy rest, and not by it's own gravitational force. If gravity was real, then weight of objects would be calculated by its g-force, not how fast they travel in air.
    This never occurred to me until I seen that Brian Cox NASA experiment, which I would never have noticed if my buddy @Erfisflat would never have introduced me to Flat Earth. May God bless him for that, .. he changed my entire outlook of our reality, and my understanding of the Bible.



    I laughed my head off when I seen them all laughing at time 3:22 - !
    It reminded me of the joke of this patient in the nuthouse who put his palm over his face and asked the other patient to see if he was fast enough to punch his hand?
    The other patient than throws a punch, and the guy quickly moves his hand away from his face and, like Brian Cox and the NASA tam of scientists there, laughs because the guy missed his hand.
    Same here, they just proved to everyone that gravity doesn't exist, and here they are laughing, which also revealed that they've been lying to us about EVERYTHING!

    Now watch the theatrics from time 2:26 on, I mean Wow! They are so used to pretending (since no rocket, space shuttle, ISS, space probes or satellites have ever gone into imaginary space, they made this bowling ball/feather drop event a big occasion. This was the same way they acted when they watched the Mars Rover Lander set down in the desert somewhere in Greenland: 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 ..

    To lift rockets, they are calculated by their density to buoyancy, adding force till the rocket is off the ground. Just like my scuba diving buoyancy jacket, I keep adding or removing air from it depending on what depth I'm at in water, and stop adjusting when I'm buoyant. It's not an anti-gravity jacket, and I never heard anyone use that phrase.
    Why?
    Because gravity does not exist.
    So have you looked into Erfisflat's 'Flat Earth' debates yet?
    Erfisflat
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism said:
    @Evidence

    You're right, maybe it is best we end this conversation. 

    But "no Adam and Eve" you ask? What made you think that? Of course there's an Adam and Eve, they're not the first people though, they're were generations before them, those who evolved from apes. Yes, there was an Adam and Eve. Original Sin? That's more tricky, or does it have to be? The Hebrew Bible says no. There is not one single verse for original sin, and any which you will try to provide will be taken out of context. Always. Believe me, I've done this before.

    Again, you fail to note that NOT ALL Jews are gays. Its silly to state so. Are all Catholics pedophiles? Our Messiah will bring world peace and a world recognition of G-d. Jesus did neither. That's why we reject him, its for good reason, y'know! 

    "As Above, So Below" is from the Davinci Code, really? You're going to rely on a novel? The Star of David has nothing to do with that, even the star used by Hindus, the same star, has nothing to do with that description. And even if it did, sex, in Judaism (as long as its not lust) is a sacred act, I mean, how else are we to reproduce?

    You then mention that we follow the Talmud, as if it isn't part of the Bible. You don't know what Talmud is, without the Oral Law, there'd be no way one COULD follow the Bible. You think Talmud, perhaps the largest literary work ever produced, only concerns itself with hating Gentiles (not true), and stating that Jesus' mother was a whore (also not true, anti-Semites love this one)? If you believe that bull, you're not a Jew. Period. It's already just laughable. All you people, be it here, Facebook, or Youtube, claim to be Jewish. . . but then you're all CHRISTIAN! Come on, think we're that dumb?

    No, the Talmud IS the Bible. It's part II, without it, ONE COULDN'T EVEN READ THE BIBLE. IT WAS THE RABBIS, WHO, HAVING AN ORAL TRADITION, MADE HEBREW READABLE FOR THE GENTILES, WHICH THEY RELIED ON IN THEIR TRANSLATIONS.

    You're a hopeless case if you think the Jews killed Jesus. I don't have to explain to you what the REAL Pilate was like, not that paper cut out in the gospels. And if we did kill him, so what, so killed a guy one day. Who cares. Had he died of alzheimer's, you wouldn't have your salvation, so you should actually be praising us for it. You should kiss our feet!

    But how can you call your ancestors Jews when you think its all hogwash 101 anyway? I mean, if you truly think we're Khazars, or fake Jews calling ourselves Jews, why even bother with it all? Did you know the Khazar theory was started by an anti-Semite? Do you know my rabbi can trace himself back to King David? Don't you have a Sefer Yuchsin? No, you don't, hence why I know YOU'RE the pretend Jew, the Christian. A Christian, like most others, who go around saying, "look, I'm Jewish, but I believe in Jesus!" Hogwash 101.

    You're NT god seems kind of crazy, he creates everyone, then damns like, I donnu, 70% of all people to hell because they never heard of Jesus and weren't born Christian. Sound fair, right? Some merciful god, right? Bull. That's not the Jewish G-d, He doesn't go around damning all o creation, we're not some "Jewish club" y'know? G-d doesn't punish a Gentile because he never knew HaShem. No. Ever read the 13 Middot? Nah, you never did, did ya? Ever heard of shittuf? Of course not!  This all explains why you can't seem to understand a shred of Judaism, I mean, you don't even know what Talmud is? Have you been raised in a Jewish family, you would have never, NOT FOR A MOMENT, EVER conceive that the Talmud is somehow different, or replaced our Holy Torah. NEVER! And don't give me that "synagogue of Satan" bull, its hogwash 101. If we're the Devil, would I dare quote Scripture to you? Come on, pal!

    G-d said in Devarim that the Torah was now in our hands. That's how we see it.

    P.S., I don't "claim" to know the Bible, I know it in Hebrew and English, literally, forward and backwards!

    Again, this is all just a waste o time on both sides, Shalom. 

    Oh yes, I forgot, so here is Eve in Judaism

    Related image and Adam Image result for pic of lucy evolution

    Any idea what distinct species they were?

    Judaism said: You're NT god seems kind of crazy, he creates everyone, then damns like, I donnu, 70% of all people to hell because they never heard of Jesus and weren't born Christian. Sound fair, right? Some merciful god, right? Bull. That's not the Jewish G-d, He doesn't go around damning all o creation, we're not some "Jewish club" y'know?


    Not 70%
    In the Bible Jesus said: "Just like in the Days of Noah, .. only a few as 8 were saved"


    Why would I be a hopeless case, it's right there in black and white, the Jews arrested, tried and killed Jesus.

    2,000 years later, they put God himself on Trial:

    "God On Trial"


    Judaism -  P.S., I don't "claim" to know the Bible, I know it in Hebrew and English, literally, forward and backwards!

    Then you would know that God didn't create "an animal, an ape in His image"

    Judaism - Again, this is all just a waste o time on both sides, Shalom.

    I agree my friend, maybe some other subject, like Flat Earth, or gravity, or physics like E=MC^2 .. or Einstein's Special Relativistic effects, that's always fun to debate, like the "Twins Paradox", .. or we could debate Cantor's attic describing our Infinite God as some stairs going into an attic!?

    Shalom
    ErfisflatAgility_Dude
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence, it's best if we do stop this, no more debates. We never put G-d on trail for real, and we didn't kill Jesus, and yes, we came from apes, evolution happened - no use running away from it - and yes, the rabbis described the process in the Zohar centuries ago.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism said:
    @Evidence, it's best if we do stop this, no more debates. We never put G-d on trail for real, and we didn't kill Jesus, and yes, we came from apes, evolution happened - no use running away from it - and yes, the rabbis described the process in the Zohar centuries ago.
    @Judaism Wait, .. i didn't say "no more debates", only about your Zionist understanding of God our Creator and His son Word, aka our Messiah. I mean to say we humans created in Gods image are animals, .. what would that make God out to be?  Don't you have a sin called "blasphemy" in Judaism?

    I mean we can still debate other stuff right? I have absolutely no animosity towards you Judaism, I love you man, really.
    God bless you, and

    Shalom.
  • Agility_DudeAgility_Dude 62 Pts   -  
    Are you sure it was Darwin who published the book and not his white-supremacist Masonic Illuminati brothers who did that and just put some of the things they heard him say in there?
    Pictures could be of anyone, even with a name typed or written under it, or back of it.
    Look, I am not saying Darwin really didn't exist, I just brought it up to show you that we can deny anyone's work, and even existence, even people who are alive today.
    But Darwin did exist, you are conceding that, am I correct? I have shown you a picture of him taken by someone. It is purely unnecessary for racists to hide behind this figure. Also, I'm pretty sure that he said nothing about people in his book. He was defending evolution because he observed the similarities with birds with different beaks on an island. You can't observe this in nature with humans, rather you can observe it with humans through the fossil record. Therefore, there was no physical evidence that he could give for black people being inferior so he wouldn't put that in. This doesn't mean that there weren't racists at the time, rather that it would be unlikely that Darwin's book had racist intentions.

    Here, I'll flip this onto you now:
    Have you heard of the iq differences between races. This wouldn't be some white supremacist propaganda image because it acknowledges that Asians have on average higher iqs than whites.
    Image result for iq differences between ethnicities
    Now this doesn't excuse racism, a black person can very well have an iq of 180, rather we should not have prejudices on an individual such as "this person is dumb because he's black", and we should judge people as individuals. That was mlk jr's dream. Why would god intentionally make some races smarter than others? Is he supporting racism?

    Do you know about this, since you're only what, 14? (If you really are, I would sure love to meet you and your parents, .. seriously, and have a face-to face, heart-to-heart conversation with you and your family. I have a couple of children who are advanced, but their interest is nothing like yours, debating like you do, I could never, not yet anyways, get them to do that.

    I would love that too, however I am not allowed to disclose any information about my school, location, etc. online for safety reasons. I actually got my passion for debating about a year ago. I was exposed to some pro trump ideas on my school bus by some classmates my age (both are much better debaters than me one of them made it to nationals in a debating competition), and me being raised in an anti trump family who watches CNN tried to debate them and I got wrecked. I eventually started talking to them more and more and got exposed to the political right wing and my passion for debating, philosophy, and politics sparked. I should tell them about this website actually. They're both Christians too one is a protestant and one is a baptist who I have debated in the past about this topic.

    Anyways, here;

    On Jan. 28, 1986, the space shuttle Challenger exploded just 73 seconds after blasting off from Florida's Kennedy Space Center, killing all seven astronauts on board — including New Hampshire educator Christa McAuliffe, a civilian who had been selected to fly via NASA's "Teacher in Space"

    I actually have not heard of this. Sounds horrible.

    Yet I have seen pictures of all 7 using different names, different hair styles living, working.
    You see, once you realize that space is fake and NASATAN would never actually send up their people knowing there is no way for them to go beyond the Dome, so this is all faked. NASATAN is built on lies, drama, and of course a close, step by step follow of the TV shows and movies they put out before any major event they are going to lay on us. I'm sure you were aware of that, right?

    So let's just say that the dome exists for a second. You are aware that you're the only one left who believes this now right? This would mean that at least there is some sort of conscious creator out there. A god you might say, that has no special interest in people, rather wanted to observe us and create us for fun as an experiment. As for people using different names, I don't know too much about that.

    The evidence of Christ goes far deeper than a lack of a photo (I reject the Shroud of Turin's legitimacy as just more of Christian Religions lies) You do realize that the year we have on our Calendars 2018 is counted by "After Christs Death A.D., or A.E. After his ascension back to Heaven", right?

    People build lots of things after figures. Pyramids in Egypt and Mexico were made to worship gods, but this doesn't prove that the gods are real. We both agree on that.

    I put the long noses to show you it has nothing to do with either human evolution, or short and long beaked finch evolution.
    Besides, your next comment: Do long noses matter? Do will people with long noses be more beneficial or be considered in this day and age more sexy? If so, more people in the future will have long noses.
    is another Evolutionist rhetoric. Why didn't you agree with me on them evolving feathers? See how Evolutionists cherry-pick to try to prove their Religious Doctrines? Look how they respond to, .. not long noses, because that doesn't fit their story, .. but a family that walks on all fours:

    Why? Because it fits with their discriminating evolution story that we are animals, apes. So Evolutionists are not just grave robbing skull and bones worshipping Satanists, but hypocrites too!

    Of course this wouldn't be speciation. Maybe subspeciation. The family that walks on all fours wouldn't prove evolution. It could be something that they choose to do. Maybe it's a condition where they were forced to do that I'm not sure please let me know if that was what was being said because then I would have a different response. Don't think that every evolutionist believes in the exact same thing, in the same way there can be homophobic right wings and non homophobic right wings.




    Again, I did not say "ape to human" since Evolutionists refer to us as animals, a family of apes. We are already homogenized and taxonimized as apes. If you're going to defend Evolution, you have to remember that you are an ape, just another animals within the 8 million animal species living today, OK?

    Our discussion is really about the mysterious, never found, and if they do find some pieces of bones that they choose to use as evidence of the "missing-link" which they call Common Ancestor so they wouldn't have to explain what species it was, is about how that 'common ancestor' changed/speciated/morphed or gave birth to the other common ancestor, and another new species? Do I have to show you Dawkins family tree poster again?

    Now look at time 0:27

    do you see and hear what he is saying? This is the common ancestor I am asking you about!? Here step by step is my question:

    we have a 'common ancestor' at time 0:28
    * over millions and billions of Carl Sagan years some of their families split up, ..
    * they start changing, even though they live on the same floating tectonic plate, same sun, same moon, same air, same rain, survive the drought, .. they do survive right, otherwise they can't bring about those new species, .. same food source or lack of it, but they change, one goes and moves a few miles down the river, the other stays and for some unexplained reason, could be that one family found some carrots across the river, but they continue to change, BUT they are both the same species that Satanists, .. sorry I meant Evolutionists call 'common ancestor'.

    No they are not the same species. It depends on how much they change. Everything you say here in this section will be responded here. A species is not changed into a different species in one generation, that's what you're forgetting. It could be:
    Gen 1: Homo Sapiens
    Gen 1000: 50% taller people
    Gen 5000: Larger eyes, ears, and noses
    Gen 10,000 50% larger IQ, not it's Homo Sapiens Advanced

    Brand new subspecies or even species over many generations! This is undeniable evidence that evolution can at least theoretically happen with this example.

    Now HERE is where my question lies: millions of years passed, the one family (time 0:29) going to the right towards the white suburban housewife just about lost their hair, grown bigger brain, built a wheel that they have no idea what to use it for so they carry it around with them (you can actually see this in many cartoons drawn over the past 150 years), built a fire and for some strange reason greatly cut back eating nuts and fruits and bananas which their cousins across the stream continue eating, and started staring at other animals, and contemplated on how delicious they would be roasted on the fire!?!? Then, realizing how they were for loosing their fur, start sowing and putting leaves all over their bodies, .. we can go on and on for millions and if you want more time, lets wait another billion years, and here is this hairless ape, .. the genetic code say it is NOT yet a human, .. still a monkey type with still a genius 'common ancestor', .. What Happens next?

    Lets look at the family of common ancestors that went to the right, towards the white woman:
    A. One, or more families suddenly morph over night into humans, and the rest die out for some reason
    B. one family, or they all give birth to human babies and they die like Salmon
    C. or what? Please explain what happens next? HOW do these big brained, naked gorilla-like apes change over to being human? we waited, .. oh let's just give it plenty of time, so we waited 4.2 billion years from rock, to amoeba to common ancestor, so the Moment has come to change from this gorilla-like hairless big brained 'common ancestor' to human. How Is it Done??

    Now let's not forget the group living across the river who decided to keep their fur over growing bigger brains, remained far stronger because they kept eating the same fruits and vegies, but they were still 'common ancestors' (see video) not identified with either gorilla (to the far right) or human, or any specific species really, so they do what?
     (Time 0:36) as you can see Dr. of Evolution Mr. Dawkins showing us there, that they morphed into, or changed into, or gave birth of two distinct species, one a chimp, and the other a bonobo, and of course after this, they too died. Just like the billions of other common animal ancestors have every time they made that change into another species!

    OK, so tell me please, your above example is based on what? Is it based on scientific observation of this 'common ancestor loosing its hair, watching its skull get larger, its brain developing? Have they done IQ tests to prove each of these brain-developing stages? Or is this all based on Satanists starring at some of their collection of skull and bone fragments dug up from graves?





    After 4.2 billion years of your Evolution, and yet we have so many wonderful, healthy working deaf/dumb mutes, what happened? All the billions of common ancestors died, yet the deaf are still here, even after the mighty dinosaurs!/

    The deaf are randomly mutated individuals, and they would be more common now that they have a better chance of reproducing thanks to the way society was created.

    What? You said: The two lungs are there because everything else was occupied by something else beneficial to the body? lol why not evolve one, would take less room and faster evolution time than combining two don't you think? This is about survival, why go the extra mile when survival is so critical!?

    It takes a shorter time for the lungs to adapt to the environment (other organs) rather than to have the environment (the other organs) adapt for the lungs. It's either all organs evolve which would take a much longer time or one organ evolve to take less time. And it works.

    Agility_Dude Now note that this contradicts the idea of intelligent design which you are leading to because why would a creator put these things in? I really need an answer to this question.

    First, ask why did Father Time make Mother Nature put our esophagus next to the larynx while they are both open? Imagine how many billions of common ancestors choked before Mother Nature evolved the esophageal sphincter to direct the food away from our lungs? it didn't just appear overnight remember? How many billions, is there a study on all them animals that choked to death, or are presently choking during evolution? You know, the billions upon billions of extinct species, or wait, you can't see this in the skull and bones, right? But we should be seeing it in the existing Evolution of all 8 million species, from the amoeba to human evolving at the same time, right?

    Well why would god put that? When's the last time you hear that choking was a common problem? As long as it doesn't make the population unsustainable there is no need to evolve otherwise.

    Can you show us all the bad-mutations that evolution is evolving without a plan, or design, or will of anyone or anything? Not the ones that died, but the ones that are dying? Evolution happens, right?

    You Know that you are defending lies your parents are teaching you, all one has to do, even if your just 14 or even 4 of 5 years old is take a look at the design:

    Actually my parents didn't teach me all of this. When I was little I was really into dinosaurs and the passion grew. I'm not as into them now but I know my stuff about prehistoric life. I'm pretty sure that my parents believe this stuff too though, but not that god doesn't exist. I was and am raised as a roman catholic and have went to catholic schools in the past.





    I take advantage of the sun, why didn't I evolve into a plant? What you are saying is that this was all planned, the plants to feed the herbivores, that are eaten by the carnivores.

    It would take so much time. Note that plants evolved from amoeba over a little less than 3 billion years. That's a long time to take advantage of the sun. Do we have that time? And also note that evolution would have happened faster because the microorganisms would reproduce and die faster than we would, so naturally mutation and natural selection would happen faster.

    Now explain this within Evolution context, start with the amoeba. Why would the amoeba want to evolve to be eaten or run all the time, when evolution is about survival?
    Here, let me help you son, here is the first amoeba. It looks at the sun and says "Evolve I must, I want to be strong and reach the sun, .." now you explain how plants and humans evolved from there? Remember, no creature needs anything in evolution, there is no such thing as selection, what happens, happens through chaos, not some precise order. And don't forget to show us this in real life, like an intelligent scientific minded fella: "Here uncle Evidence, see how this creature dying here after 2.5 Billion years a bone is evolving through it's scull, and no ears nor eyes, .. it will die, like you see all the billions of dying creatures around us. This is why I and my dad believe in Evolution!"

    Not the first amoeba! 3 Billion years worth of amoebas developing to this point. Perfectly reasonable.

    Then I would understand. But since no Evolutionist can show us, me and @Erfisflat even one illusive and mysterious creature that EVERY creature on earth evolved from, this non-existent creature they call; common ancestor, well son, you have absolutely nothing to build on, let alone debate under the tittle science.

    But I'll entertain you since you're young and I know how gullible kids can be, hoping you get out of this demonic Evolution Religion. I honestly do, because if you really are only 14, you could easily become a doctor, even a surgeon and operate on us humans with the belief that we are nothing but animals, apes. That scares me, and I have a lot of reasons to.

    I agree. I believe that even if someone has crazy and extreme beliefs I should still try to convince them that mine are correct because then we can have better actions, and I appreciate that you are doing that.

    Now imagine going into the hospital for a serious neck surgery, remember laying on the stretcher, IV started, pushed into the surgery room, .. told that now they will put me out, .. gave the OK that I understand, and Poof! I'm out.
    Next thing I know is that I'm coming to, and first my hearing comes back, and I hear two men speaking in German.
    I then wake right up, not drowsy, but as if someone shot me up with gallon of caffeine.
    I look around and I am with two guys dressed as doctors, I believe one was my anesthesiologist, and laughing they push a paper, some document under my hand and say: "Here, sign this!"
    Confused but wide awake I ask: "What? What for? What is this?"
    One doctor answers: "In case you die, this is that you gave us permission to do surgery on you!"
    Me: "I already did all this, what, you planning to kill me?"
    Doctor: "Well, you never know what could happen?"

    Confused, .. I tried signing but my hand just dropped to my side.
    Doctor to the other one: "OK put him out!"

    I wake up in my hospital bed, in horrible pain. I can't move either arm, and for the next few days they leave me unattended, no food, no drink and I can't push the buzzer, and when I yelled out the door, the German nurse called Susan came and closed it.
    On a Shift change a CNA came in to take vitals. When she seen my temperature, she gasped. She hit the emergency button, and told me she has to get the nurse immediately.
    I hear her outside the hall telling the nurse that my temperature is over 104F and the nurse told her: "Ok, ok, calm down and just go do the rest of the vitals and I will take care of this!" And she did, she lifted me into a chair, and I sat there all day till the next shift came in. Until then, no one was allowed in to the room anymore, and they knew I couldn't move my arms, and to stand up with a huge cut in my neck was impossible with no pain killers.

    If anyone who is not German reading this want verification of this incident, and about a hundred or more even more dangerous attempts on my life, just ask, and I will provide it.
    The reason I'm telling you all this Agility_Dude, is for the benefit of a doubt, that you would consider your quest on defending this demonic BB-Evolution agenda that is only to make it easier for Them to kill us all.

    Wrong beliefs can be dangerous, and trusting people who shouldn't be trusted can be too. I get it.





    Evidence - "Really, .. they needed it? Evolution is supposedly; no will or plan of anyone or anything, .. and the bunnies "needed it"?
    How about; the wolves and other carnivores needed it, so God made sure they have plenty of it."

    Agility_Dude Yes they needed it to survive, so the ones that evolve higher reproduction rate and to be faster will be more successful than ones that don't have these qualities. It happened randomly and rabbits spontaneously gradually evolved a higher reproduction rate and better legs.

    Yes, so we can have plenty of rabbit for dinner, and I do like the legs best, than you my Lord!

    How do rabbits evolve to counter guns in a few generations? That's impossible. Maybe over a few million years or 100,000 - 500,000 generations but not over a few generations.

    Evidence - , I can shoot all the remaining gorillas in a week, and they'd be extinct. I mean what were those hairy muscle-heads thinking? They waisted 60 million years evolving muscles while they could have evolved brains instead!?

    Agility_Dude We created guns so quickly that gorillas don't have time to respond, and there would have to be too many body modifications to the gorilla for it to even be remotely possible for it to evolve to survive hunters

    You haven't watched the planet of the apes, have you? Besides, I thought you said that their whole plan was to evolve more muscles, so why don't they use them? I don't mean body modifications while the gun is pointing at their heads, I meant the same tectonic plate, same food, same evolution-time, same everything starting from amoeba like we human apes had. They made some bad choices haven't they. We must have started off with smarter amoeba, and made all the right selections as they came up over the millions and billions of years? They should never have moved to those bushes a few hundred yards away from us with the bigger bananas, that's what did them in. I guess some animals just don't know how to select, they forget that Evolution is all about "selection"!

    I have watched the remakes to that movie, so I get the idea. Sure, gorillas have been evolving more muscles over the 10 or 15 million years that we branched off from each other, but they can only do so much. They had no necessity to go full king kong mode, it's just that over millions of years, the stronger individuals tend to be able to reproduce more. If there was a king kong out there and you shot almost all of the gorillas, there would be many king kongs out there. You're forgetting that it doesn't happen in a few generations but in thousands at least.

    Evidence -"Evolution is obviously false, now throw up a coin and call it: heads you accept the Muslim god, and tails, you get beheaded, .. I mean you go extinct. Either way, it's Not your choice. It's all evolution. It's your environment and the egg Mc-muffin that you ate that will determine your decision, remember? Your mind is created by the influence on your brain by your environment and the food you ate for breakfast. besides, both Religions worship the same god/gods. Christianity created Islam.
    Or, .. you can open the Bible and with what you already know about all the lies out there of the Big-Bang that Globetard's don't know what's it expanding in, .. and Evolutionist even admit that Evolution never happens, so you have a head start, now you can concentrate on reading and studying the Bible, and see if you can find God in His Word, and in real science. Until of course NASA can provide a real picture of Globe Earth, and CERN tell us what medium the quantum speck Big-Banged in?"

    Agility_Dude First of all, even though Christianity created Islam Islam dictates that you must either be a very good person and or a Muslim in order to go to heaven. If Islam was true and I died right now I would probably go to hell. I'm not a saint by any means I admit that. As for the bible, I want to read all of it someday. I try really hard to discipline myself to what I think is important, but I don't go very far. Maybe I can discipline myself to read 20-50 pages of the bible everyday.

    In conclusion, I have tried to respond to all of your points in the debate. I feel that you have not done that on your part. If I haven't on my part, let me know. Thank you!

    Tell me what parts I left out, because if I know that I answered something in our previous debates, I skip over it.
    Yes, discipline is part of it, but Jesus made it much easier than the Religions have it, and none of them really accept Jesus, nor God as they are described in the Bible, and as we can observe them in us, for we were created in His, in their image:

    Adam in Gods image, and Eve in the son Words.
    Just as God beget His son Word, Adam (with the help of God of course) beget Eve.

    Look, I am tired answering the same problems you have in your understanding of evolution story, you still haven't answered my original question: "How does a common ancestor evolve/speciate/morph/or give birth to the two other species, and why won't They-that-Live" define what species the billions of common ancestors are? And we KNOW we have at least 8 million living species, there should be at least 16 million common ancestors, maybe a few dying, but still, .. where are they? If we could just catch one, we could put a camera on it and watch how they give rise to two other species, and then disappear without a trace, .. right?

    Ok, I apologize that I didn't make myself clear. I thought that I answered that clearly but I wasn't hearing a response from you so now I get it. I'll paste something I said earlier that should get the idea across:

    A species is not changed into a different species in one generation, that's what you're forgetting. It could be:
    Gen 1: Homo Sapiens
    Gen 1000: 50% taller people
    Gen 5000: Larger eyes, ears, and noses
    Gen 10,000 50% larger IQ, now it's Homo Sapiens Advanced

    We have seen this in small scale with larger noses as you have pointed out, and many other things. I think that this answers your question, does it? Well, thanks for clearing everything up.
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    Ya, sure, we can debate other topics, but I'm quite busy right now. As far as evolution, it happened, now what does that make G-d? I don't know? Do you? Isn't G-d human in your belief? In mine, we don't know what G-d looks like, if He even has a form, which, from our tradition, is likely not. Isaiah was clear on that, I don't need to read from Talmud. Is G-d an animal? If that's the way you wish to look at it, I sure don't. Still, I think G-d has the power to do whatever He wishes, and if He wanted to use evolution as a means to an end, all power be to Him. Its definitely discussed in detail in both the Zohar and Talmud, centuries before Darwin, and Darwin wasn't Jewish, so he didn't have access to this stuff, only science.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism said:
    @Evidence

    Ya, sure, we can debate other topics, but I'm quite busy right now. As far as evolution, it happened, now what does that make G-d? I don't know? Do you? Isn't G-d human in your belief? In mine, we don't know what G-d looks like, if He even has a form, which, from our tradition, is likely not. Isaiah was clear on that, I don't need to read from Talmud. Is G-d an animal? If that's the way you wish to look at it, I sure don't. Still, I think G-d has the power to do whatever He wishes, and if He wanted to use evolution as a means to an end, all power be to Him. Its definitely discussed in detail in both the Zohar and Talmud, centuries before Darwin, and Darwin wasn't Jewish, so he didn't have access to this stuff, only science.
    I understand my friend, busy comes first, then debate, right?

    Yes, I KNOW who God is, and can define Him really well because when I read in the Bible where He said to His son Word: "Let us make man in our image", I did a both a scientific, and a philosophical study of myself, and learned who God, my Infinite and Eternal Creator was.
    The Bible also says He is Spirit, and that no one has ever seen God, or even can see God. So the only part of us that we can't see, is our mind/spirit, and separating my mind/spirit from the rest of my body like my brain, I see/understand who God is.

    I didn't say God was an animal, that's your Evolution Religion/belief that calls humans; animals of the ape family, not me.

    How does "evolution over millions and billions of years" fit into "creation, and intelligent design"?? Either God "created us in His image" or not? The Evolution story paints a very different picture, it is the very opposite of creation, and I'm sure you know that, because you fly the very flag that represents this opposition to God,

    Image result for pic of the satanic star of david

    like I've shown you the Transgender agenda (LGBT) that you support. It is the very idea of "opposing-God", where men are turning themselves into women and visa versa. Clear Satan worship.

    Image result for pic of the satanic star of david


    If God can create the world with everything in it like we see, how could he not create man in His image? What, .. you think He ran out of ideas and after creating the Heaven and the earth, He just laid back and rested till the rocks evolved all the living things on earth? lol, that's actually funny you would think that.

    Was Darwin a racist, .. well duh!

    The human heart is a factory for all kinds of evil—including the evil of racism (see Jeremiah 17:9 and Matthew 15:18–19). Still, while Darwin certainly didn’t invent racism, his ideology of evolution has fostered it. Consider the case of Ota Benga—a pygmy from Central Africa, who in 1906 was caged in the Bronx Zoo with an orangutan. Remember the Jews in the gas chambers devised by Hitler to advance the Aryan “master race.” Reflect on the Australian aborigines hunted down in the 1800s by evolutionists in search of the “missing link.”

    Descent of Man

    The full title of Darwin’s most famous work included some stark words: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. Darwin envisioned the spontaneous formation of simple life evolving into higher forms through the pitiless forces of nature selecting the fittest.

    And of course, a lot of Evolutionists believe that; Natural Selection needs help sometimes, just ask Hitler and the Germans, .. and today the Zionists who are all for Trans gendering the human population, the As-above, So-below opposite-thingy.

    God created the Heaven and the Earth
    Satan created the expanding Spacetime-vacuum and the Globe through chaos, a Big-explosion.

    God created man in His image
    Satan let Mother Nature and Father time create man in the image of animals, specifically apes.

    God made them male and female
    Satan changes the men to female, and the women to male.

    See, Opposites; God creates, Satan destroys.

    Erfisflat
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    No, we can't see G-d. I agree with that. No, G-d was not speaking of Jesus when He said "Let us make man in our image." It was with the angels. How do I know this? Because angels don't create, only G-d does, and in the next verse, its singular, meaning, if Jesus is also G-d, did the Father keep him out of the ring? I mean, you don't believe in a trinity, so you can't suggest G-d and Jesus are one, which, just leaves you with something along these lines: G-d told Jesus he could create with Him, then, when words translate into action, He thought Jesus not ready, and did it Himself. Sounds kind of silly, right? Worse, the two verses, when put side-by-side, hint nothing of the above. So, the third option: there just is no Jesus, G-d did everything Himself, is correct. 

    You wrote: "The Bible also says He is Spirit, and that no one has ever seen God, or even can see God. So the only part of us that we can't see, is our mind/spirit, and separating my mind/spirit from the rest of my body like my brain, I see/understand who God is." 

    The Bible also speaks of an evil spirit too, y'know. Your remark sounds cult-like.

    Yes, humans ARE animals, get over it, we're different though because we have what's called in English, a soul. Animals don't.

    Then it gets worse. . . 

    He says. . . "How does 'evolution over millions and billions of years' fit into 'creation, and intelligent design'?? Either God 'created us in His image' or not? The Evolution story paints a very different picture, it is the very opposite of creation, and I'm sure you know that, because you fly the very flag that represents this opposition to God."

    What nonsense. Really. The Jewish flag, the star on David's shield? Yes, there were 900 some generations before Adam, they had the "faces of monkeys." Adam once had a tail, according to the Talmud. Why is it so wrong to think so? 

    We know in realty G-d didn't "rest" on the third day, as if He was tired. He simply stopped, but the Ramban goes on to say that creation would be repeated, in world history. If you follow his outline, or, chart, of history, this becomes all too clear, and if you see the reforms made by the Vilna Gaon, with Israel arriving exactly when it's suppose to, 1948, it's obvious to anyone that something spiritual and magnificent is going on here. It leaves Jesus out of the picture. Point is, the creation story, the creation myth, was just that. A myth. Rambam thought so and he's top sage, who am I to believe not? Rav always knew it, so did the sages of Talmud. They never, from the time of Akiva, even to Moshe Rabbeinu, ever thought twice that Bereshit, Genesis, was a literal description of world history. Never. The chart of Rav Nachmanides is all too clear. It is authoritative. Oh, and the little bit about G-d creating man in "his image"? That too is metaphorical, just see Rashi. Rambam says G-d created us in His "intellect," surely not an insult.

    But the point? Simple. If Bereshit is only metaphor, than G-d didn't really create the world in six days, did he? Had you grown up with Talmud, or the Jewish tradition, you'd know of an old book called the Sefer HaTemunah, or the fact that Yitzach deMin Acco calculate the universe, in the 13th century, using Psalm 90:4, to be 15 billion years old.

    Then he goes on to show some pics of some goat. Real funny. Sounds like some cult member now. How silly, Satan isn't evil, he works for G-d, don't know what the goat's connection to all this is, but whatever. 

    I don't know what you're suggesting, if Darwin was a racist, that's too bad. I'm not sure, though, if he was. How in any way do the Nazis contribute to Darwin? Hitler's idea of Darwin was messed up. Of course, we Jews don't follow "natural selection" per se. Like Darwin, Rambam too thought that we could grow higher spiritually and intellectually. 

    Lastly, he says that G-d created everything, but so did Satan? Does an angel have the ability to create? Not if you ask a Jew! G-d used the big bang, as discussed in Ramban's work, G-d has power over nature, He didn't plant bones of dinosaurs in the earth to "trick" man, this would be very disingenuous of Him! Man decided to change his or her gender, not Satan. See, Christianity, or, "the way" is a weak religion, it puts everything off our shoulders. Man can't save himself, so latch on to Jesus; man doesn't do evil, blame Satan for our wrong, don't take action or responsibility. . . . No, it can't all be the Devil's fault, and then G-d, somehow, blames us for all this, He throws us into eternal fire? What kind of a god is this? A one, if you ask me.

    Rest assured, though, that this is not the real G-d. G-d doesn't play favorites, and He won't punish you unless you've deserved it. And there is no Satan, and no more obsession with gays, Christians get caught in this loop and tag along it all day and miss the vital stuff. Free will.
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence,

    I don't need a response by the way, we're just looping now. I'm busy. I'm not retired, lol!
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence, but don't take it the wrong way, it's nothing personal. 
  • refugeerefugee 87 Pts   -  
    Who needs to change your mind for what you believe is true in your mind ?
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    refugee said:
    Who needs to change your mind for what you believe is true in your mind ?
    Hello @refugee ;

    Pol Pot, Hitler, Gacy, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Dahmer and the list goes on who thought in their mind what they believed was true, some, like Pol Pot lived to change his mind, others died, some a gruesome death, taking dozens to millions with them the same way.

    Sometimes now and then we need good people with good suggestions to help us change our minds, .. don't you think so?
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism said:
    Evidence

    No, we can't see G-d. I agree with that. No, G-d was not speaking of Jesus when He said "Let us make man in our image." It was with the angels. How do I know this? Because angels don't create, only G-d does, and in the next verse, its singular, meaning, if Jesus is also G-d, did the Father keep him out of the ring? I mean, you don't believe in a trinity, so you can't suggest G-d and Jesus are one, which, just leaves you with something along these lines: G-d told Jesus he could create with Him, then, when words translate into action, He thought Jesus not ready, and did it Himself. Sounds kind of silly, right? Worse, the two verses, when put side-by-side, hint nothing of the above. So, the third option: there just is no Jesus, G-d did everything Himself, is correct. 

    You wrote: "The Bible also says He is Spirit, and that no one has ever seen God, or even can see God. So the only part of us that we can't see, is our mind/spirit, and separating my mind/spirit from the rest of my body like my brain, I see/understand who God is." 

    The Bible also speaks of an evil spirit too, y'know. Your remark sounds cult-like.

    Yes, humans ARE animals, get over it, we're different though because we have what's called in English, a soul. Animals don't.

    Then it gets worse. . . 

    He says. . . "How does 'evolution over millions and billions of years' fit into 'creation, and intelligent design'?? Either God 'created us in His image' or not? The Evolution story paints a very different picture, it is the very opposite of creation, and I'm sure you know that, because you fly the very flag that represents this opposition to God."

    What nonsense. Really. The Jewish flag, the star on David's shield? Yes, there were 900 some generations before Adam, they had the "faces of monkeys." Adam once had a tail, according to the Talmud. Why is it so wrong to think so? 

    We know in realty G-d didn't "rest" on the third day, as if He was tired. He simply stopped, but the Ramban goes on to say that creation would be repeated, in world history. If you follow his outline, or, chart, of history, this becomes all too clear, and if you see the reforms made by the Vilna Gaon, with Israel arriving exactly when it's suppose to, 1948, it's obvious to anyone that something spiritual and magnificent is going on here. It leaves Jesus out of the picture. Point is, the creation story, the creation myth, was just that. A myth. Rambam thought so and he's top sage, who am I to believe not? Rav always knew it, so did the sages of Talmud. They never, from the time of Akiva, even to Moshe Rabbeinu, ever thought twice that Bereshit, Genesis, was a literal description of world history. Never. The chart of Rav Nachmanides is all too clear. It is authoritative. Oh, and the little bit about G-d creating man in "his image"? That too is metaphorical, just see Rashi. Rambam says G-d created us in His "intellect," surely not an insult.

    But the point? Simple. If Bereshit is only metaphor, than G-d didn't really create the world in six days, did he? Had you grown up with Talmud, or the Jewish tradition, you'd know of an old book called the Sefer HaTemunah, or the fact that Yitzach deMin Acco calculate the universe, in the 13th century, using Psalm 90:4, to be 15 billion years old.

    Then he goes on to show some pics of some goat. Real funny. Sounds like some cult member now. How silly, Satan isn't evil, he works for G-d, don't know what the goat's connection to all this is, but whatever. 

    I don't know what you're suggesting, if Darwin was a racist, that's too bad. I'm not sure, though, if he was. How in any way do the Nazis contribute to Darwin? Hitler's idea of Darwin was messed up. Of course, we Jews don't follow "natural selection" per se. Like Darwin, Rambam too thought that we could grow higher spiritually and intellectually. 

    Lastly, he says that G-d created everything, but so did Satan? Does an angel have the ability to create? Not if you ask a Jew! G-d used the big bang, as discussed in Ramban's work, G-d has power over nature, He didn't plant bones of dinosaurs in the earth to "trick" man, this would be very disingenuous of Him! Man decided to change his or her gender, not Satan. See, Christianity, or, "the way" is a weak religion, it puts everything off our shoulders. Man can't save himself, so latch on to Jesus; man doesn't do evil, blame Satan for our wrong, don't take action or responsibility. . . . No, it can't all be the Devil's fault, and then G-d, somehow, blames us for all this, He throws us into eternal fire? What kind of a god is this? A one, if you ask me.

    Rest assured, though, that this is not the real G-d. G-d doesn't play favorites, and He won't punish you unless you've deserved it. And there is no Satan, and no more obsession with gays, Christians get caught in this loop and tag along it all day and miss the vital stuff. Free will.
    Hey buddy @Judaism, no problem, respond when you have time, .. or when you retire?  Unless you're young, then I'll be long dead before i read your reply, .. lol

    Judaism - No, we can't see G-d. I agree with that. No, G-d was not speaking of Jesus when He said "Let us make man in our image." It was with the angels. How do I know this? Because angels don't create, only G-d does, and in the next verse, its singular, meaning, if Jesus is also G-d, did the Father keep him out of the ring?

    Not Jesus, God was talking to His son Word, before he came down and was born of the Hebrew virgin named Mary. Have you known many builders, I did, this guy in San Diego who was a Realtor, and bought prime lots and built his own custom homes on them in Del Mar and Loyola Ca. He would go out there and show his friends and business associates how he built all these homes on this one entire street, yet never lifted a hammer.
    God creates, God is our Savior, God is all in all, .. through His son Word, through the Angel of Fire, through Moses, through us, if we harken onto  His Word.
    Again, Jesus is NOT God, .. Christians claim he is, the same god you worship.

    Judaism - Yes, humans ARE animals, get over it, we're different though because we have what's called in English, a soul. Animals don't.

    Like todays Judaism, you make absolutely no sense; "We're animals, but animals don't have souls". I guess that's Judaism for you!??
    But wait, I can almost swear dogs have souls, .. so do you think maybe God created dogs in His image? Far less offensive then some poop eating gorilla you say you evolved from, .. right?

    You know about that goat with the Judaism star, .. I debated this other Jewish guy on "Debating Christianity and Religion", for years. He was Jewish like yourself, and had the exact same star of Judaism (I'm not going to call it Star of David, because that would be blasphemous to king David) only his screen name was "Goat", an outspoken atheist. Boy he was smart, he knew the Bible including the NT, .. including just about every other major religions out there. Sounded like a scholar, or even a retired Professor of Religious History, he wouldn't say?
    He tripped me up many times, and at times made me feel like a fool claiming to know about the NT. So yeah, I realized that my "Christian interpretation" (I was a Globetard Christian back then) and his Hebrew interpretation of the NT was no match. Anyways, I learned a lot from him, and from other really intelligent atheists, .. I listened, and went back to relearn using the info I collected, just as I have with my friend @Erfisflat about the flat earth. After a few years of debating, the subject came on Judaism, and he said the same thing, "I don't want to debate you anymore, only he put me on 'ignore'.
    Here was a self proclaimed Jew with the so called star of David (a mirrored triangle pushed up to make it look like a star) as his avatar, with a name like "Goat", but he did not like the picture I painted regarding his Luciferian atheist belief, especially when I proved (which even some other atheists admitted) that atheism was just another Religion worshipping other gods.
    He didn't hide the fact in whom he worshipped, why would you?

    Judaism - We know in realty G-d didn't "rest" on the third day, as if He was tired. He simply stopped, but the Ramban goes on to say that creation would be repeated, in world history. If you follow his outline, or, chart, of history, this becomes all too clear, and if you see the reforms made by the Vilna Gaon, with Israel arriving exactly when it's suppose to, 1948, it's obvious to anyone that something spiritual and magnificent is going on here. It leaves Jesus out of the picture. Point is, the creation story, the creation myth, was just that. A myth. Rambam thought so and he's top sage, who am I to believe not? Rav always knew it, so did the sages of Talmud. They never, from the time of Akiva, even to Moshe Rabbeinu, ever thought twice that Bereshit, Genesis, was a literal description of world history. Never. The chart of Rav Nachmanides is all too clear. It is authoritative. Oh, and the little bit about G-d creating man in "his image"? That too is metaphorical, just see Rashi. Rambam says G-d created us in His "intellect," surely not an insult.

    You mean God didn't rest on the seventh day, not as you said the third day, correct? And how does what; "Rashi. Rambam says G-d created us in His "intellect," surely not an insult" not be an insult? Did you see the pictures of Rashi Rambam's version of Adam and Eve I posted?

    Judaism - Lastly, he says that G-d created everything, but so did Satan? Does an angel have the ability to create? Not if you ask a Jew! G-d used the big bang, as discussed in Ramban's work, G-d has power over nature, He didn't plant bones of dinosaurs in the earth to "trick" man, this would be very disingenuous of Him! Man decided to change his or her gender, not Satan. See, Christianity, or, "the way" is a weak religion, it puts everything off our shoulders. Man can't save himself, so latch on to Jesus; man doesn't do evil, blame Satan for our wrong, don't take action or responsibility. . . . No, it can't all be the Devil's fault, and then G-d, somehow, blames us for all this, He throws us into eternal fire? What kind of a god is this? A one, if you ask me.

    Don't we create, so why couldn't Angels? From what I gather from the old Testament, it looks like there was a lot of mining, building, and a lot of Angelic worship on this earth, which is why I believe Lucifer became the self exalted god of this world, and turned it into chaos where either God, or some self inflicted disaster flooded the earth which we see described in Genesis 1:2 !?

    Yes, latch on to Jesus, .. you know what? You really should go to an AA meeting, we went as a clinical taking nursing, and almost everyone there was an atheist. You really have to experience this yourself;

    The 12 steps to Alcoholic Anonymous:

    Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

    Step 2: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

    Step 3: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

    Step 4: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

    Step 5: Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

    Step 6: Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

    Step 7: Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

    Step 8: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

    Step 9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

    Step 10: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

    Step 11: Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

    Step 12: Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

    Funny isn't it? This is exactly what Jesus taught, only they removed the name Jesus and put: "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." and today, that could be any god, yes, even the god of this world Lucifer just like the Pope and Billy Graham taught.

    And finally, oh yes God plays favorites, and I am stunned you didn't notice this in your Hebrew Bible; "The God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob", not Baphomet with his star.
    Erfisflat
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence,

    You got me there! Yes, we're animals, but we're also above your regular dog because we have a soul, so THOSE animals don't have souls. You follow @Erfisflat? Great to know! Another flat earthier who doesn't know a shred of science! 

    I don't know about this other guy you spoke with, but I'm not going to admit that the Star of David is a sign of Lucifer, you don't even know what that means, Lucifer isn't a name, it isn't even Hebrew, the Hebrew means Venus. Checkmate. 

    What pics on Rashi and Ramban? If it has to do with gays, good luck, they were before that time. These guys were sages, so some respect here, I don't know who you thought they were, my uncle? 

    Angels don't create, what does Satan have to do with Bereshit 1:2 again?

    Baphomet has nothing to do with the Star of David. . . until you prove it!

    Shalom, take care. 
  • with_all_humilitywith_all_humility 222 Pts   -   edited August 2018
    "I don't know about this other guy you spoke with, but I'm not going to admit that the Star of David is a sign of Lucifer, you don't even know what that means, Lucifer isn't a name, it isn't even Hebrew, the Hebrew means Venus. Checkmate."

    Lucifer only appears in the book of Isaiah and it is referring to a star, not Satan.

    Isa 14:12  "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

    Lucifer - Margin, ‘Day-star’ (hēylēl, from hâlal, “to shine”). The word in Hebrew occurs as a noun nowhere else. In two other places Eze 21:12Zec 11:2, it is used as a verb in the imperative mood of Hiphil, and is translated ‘howl’ from the verb yālal, “to howl” or “cry.” Gesenius and Rosenmuller suppose that it should be so rendered here. So Noyes renders it, ‘Howl, son of the morning!’ But the common translation seems to be preferable. The Septuagint renders it, Heōsphoros, and the Vulgate, ‘Lucifer, the morning star.’ The Chaldee, ‘How art thou fallen from high, who was splendid among the sons of men.’ There can be no doubt that the object in the eve of the prophet was the bright morning star, and his design was to compare this magnificent oriental monarch with that. The comparison of a monarch with the sun, or the other heavenly bodies, is common in the Scriptures.
  • EtrnlVwEtrnlVw 32 Pts   -   edited August 2018
    @PyromanGaming ;Well there's a few ways to consider this and examine it. There's also weaker propositions and stronger arguments however if God exists both will work in this context so you can kind of weigh it out.
    One very good angle to consider this is to set aside fundamentalism for the purposes of clarity and a more universal understanding and reality of the Creator and not such a limited, one dimensional approach. We are talking about a reality with no beginning or ending and everything within creation comes out of a singular Source and so it's safe to be flexible on this and think big. Consider looking at religion as the interpretation of One reality with many dynamics and many things mixed in with it like culture, traditions, opinions ect ect but they are all attempting to interpret the same reality known as God. There's many commonalities within religions and spiritual sources because even though they vary in beliefs and traditions the purpose of them is the same for each soul. There are many universal principles and they apply to the whole world as a whole not just individual groups or individual religious sects and if you've examined many religious sources like I have you begin to notice the underlying unifying fabric it's pretty cool. God channels Itself in many ways and through many forms to express parts of Itself and souls here can have many different types of experiences.
    Perhaps people are afraid to consider an Omnists perspective of religion and spirituality but the Creator is an incredibly vast and dynamic reality and is not limited by anything, any beliefs or theories rather everything is within God and man attempts to interpret his experiences from it, observed individually and collectively and then recorded for the benefit of another to learn from. Every spiritual path is unique and has something different to offer just like every soul is unique and special and so there are many forms and expressions the soul can connect with, not everyone wants the same things and the same expressions. That's boring and God is very exciting not one-dimensional.

    What does this have to do with arguing for the existence of God? well if you were to consider gathering together as a WHOLE- religions, spirituality, NDE's, OBE's, soul travel, spiritual encounters, spiritual scriptures, spiritual literature and everything that is legit in that category that is an enormous demonstrable body of evidences right there and the sheer magnitude of that is incredible if you were to think about it. That type of testimonial evidence in that amount should turn anyone's head. This brings me to why "testimonial" evidences?
    Testimonial evidences are congruent with the nature of spirituality and the nature of the Divine and spiritual sources and or religion reaches where other sources fall short, perhaps such as a material based study or examination. Even though testimonials are not considered proof, they certainly count as evidences and in large numbers could be considered strong evidences or at minimum convincing. There are two forms of testimonials and experiences of spiritual phenomenon, one being the experiences that someone else has observed and then the experiences that you yourself observe or will observe as you cultivate your spiritual body. Both of these forms should be considered evaluating the existence of God.

    Another good way to ponder this, is to consider the nature of consciousness and the soul away from a materialist/naturalist perception and rendering. This is just fine because as everyone should know the nature of consciousness is an open question in science and spiritual/religious sources have great insights and experiences into this reality. You can experience for yourself that what you think is a human body only actually really has several layers not just a physical body. The soul is actually wrapped and layered with what are known as the subtle bodies or spirit body, this is the layer people experience when they leave the material body at death. Your body and brain does not create your conscious awareness, rather the soul inhabits the physical body and experiences everything through it like getting into a vehicle so that you can navigate this world. Once that vehicle shuts down the soul, which is you leaves the embodiment. One does not have to leave the body though to experience the higher realms, it's a matter of learning to advance your attention outside just the material body and its senses. 

    The nature of consciousness is much like the current of electricity and energy. The Creator steps it down into individualized forms to experience life through that channel and so when the soul is sent out into the created worlds it inhabits bodies in creation much like a circuit board with components on it. Thinking that the brain produces consciousness is akin to thinking that the components on the circuit board are producing the current of electricity. Not at all, the current comes from another source and the brain is much like the part on an electrical board....it acts like a conductor and limiter to the flow of consciousness it does not create your awareness or soul it's just a component and electrical panel to conduct it and confine you to your experience in this body. Likewise the mind is not creating your consciousness and you can experience this for yourself by pulling back from the mind and observing it rather than following it. You are the observer/operator of the mind and your awareness comes right through it. Your observation point stops at your consciousness not the physical body and so this is what is experienced over and over through NDE's and spiritual encounters, the conscious soul leaves this shell.
    This might be a bit unorthodox but at least it should be interesting and give you some things to consider I hope :)
    BTW I'm sort of an Omnist which means I examine spirituality and religion as a whole and learn from them as a whole. I don't limit my beliefs to one thing or another I embrace all forms of truth even though my background and foundation is Christianity it is not limited to that and people should be aware of these options.

    Evidence
    John 17

    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    with_all_humility 

    Correct! It's the King of Babylon, these Christians or whatever are just clowns when it comes to Hebrew, they all say they don't need to learn the language when Hebrew actually can't be translated perfectly anyway, Luther admitted it. Plus, their version of Tanakh (OT) is corrupted, no wonder they follow Jesus!
    Evidence
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    EtrnlVw said:
    @PyromanGaming ;Well there's a few ways to consider this and examine it. There's also weaker propositions and stronger arguments however if God exists both will work in this context so you can kind of weigh it out.
    One very good angle to consider this is to set aside fundamentalism for the purposes of clarity and a more universal understanding and reality of the Creator and not such a limited, one dimensional approach. We are talking about a reality with no beginning or ending and everything within creation comes out of a singular Source and so it's safe to be flexible on this and think big. Consider looking at religion as the interpretation of One reality with many dynamics and many things mixed in with it like culture, traditions, opinions ect ect but they are all attempting to interpret the same reality known as God. There's many commonalities within religions and spiritual sources because even though they vary in beliefs and traditions the purpose of them is the same for each soul. There are many universal principles and they apply to the whole world as a whole not just individual groups or individual religious sects and if you've examined many religious sources like I have you begin to notice the underlying unifying fabric it's pretty cool. God channels Itself in many ways and through many forms to express parts of Itself and souls here can have many different types of experiences.
    Perhaps people are afraid to consider an Omnists perspective of religion and spirituality but the Creator is an incredibly vast and dynamic reality and is not limited by anything, any beliefs or theories rather everything is within God and man attempts to interpret his experiences from it, observed individually and collectively and then recorded for the benefit of another to learn from. Every spiritual path is unique and has something different to offer just like every soul is unique and special and so there are many forms and expressions the soul can connect with, not everyone wants the same things and the same expressions. That's boring and God is very exciting not one-dimensional.

    What does this have to do with arguing for the existence of God? well if you were to consider gathering together as a WHOLE- religions, spirituality, NDE's, OBE's, soul travel, spiritual encounters, spiritual scriptures, spiritual literature and everything that is legit in that category that is an enormous demonstrable body of evidences right there and the sheer magnitude of that is incredible if you were to think about it. That type of testimonial evidence in that amount should turn anyone's head. This brings me to why "testimonial" evidences?
    Testimonial evidences are congruent with the nature of spirituality and the nature of the Divine and spiritual sources and or religion reaches where other sources fall short, perhaps such as a material based study or examination. Even though testimonials are not considered proof, they certainly count as evidences and in large numbers could be considered strong evidences or at minimum convincing. There are two forms of testimonials and experiences of spiritual phenomenon, one being the experiences that someone else has observed and then the experiences that you yourself observe or will observe as you cultivate your spiritual body. Both of these forms should be considered evaluating the existence of God.

    Another good way to ponder this, is to consider the nature of consciousness and the soul away from a materialist/naturalist perception and rendering. This is just fine because as everyone should know the nature of consciousness is an open question in science and spiritual/religious sources have great insights and experiences into this reality. You can experience for yourself that what you think is a human body only actually really has several layers not just a physical body. The soul is actually wrapped and layered with what are known as the subtle bodies or spirit body, this is the layer people experience when they leave the material body at death. Your body and brain does not create your conscious awareness, rather the soul inhabits the physical body and experiences everything through it like getting into a vehicle so that you can navigate this world. Once that vehicle shuts down the soul, which is you leaves the embodiment. One does not have to leave the body though to experience the higher realms, it's a matter of learning to advance your attention outside just the material body and its senses. 

    The nature of consciousness is much like the current of electricity and energy. The Creator steps it down into individualized forms to experience life through that channel and so when the soul is sent out into the created worlds it inhabits bodies in creation much like a circuit board with components on it. Thinking that the brain produces consciousness is akin to thinking that the components on the circuit board are producing the current of electricity. Not at all, the current comes from another source and the brain is much like the part on an electrical board....it acts like a conductor and limiter to the flow of consciousness it does not create your awareness or soul it's just a component and electrical panel to conduct it and confine you to your experience in this body. Likewise the mind is not creating your consciousness and you can experience this for yourself by pulling back from the mind and observing it rather than following it. You are the observer/operator of the mind and your awareness comes right through it. Your observation point stops at your consciousness not the physical body and so this is what is experienced over and over through NDE's and spiritual encounters, the conscious soul leaves this shell.
    This might be a bit unorthodox but at least it should be interesting and give you some things to consider I hope :)
    BTW I'm sort of an Omnist which means I examine spirituality and religion as a whole and learn from them as a whole. I don't limit my beliefs to one thing or another I embrace all forms of truth even though my background and foundation is Christianity it is not limited to that and people should be aware of these options.

    @EtrnlVw said: We are talking about a reality with no beginning or ending and everything within creation comes out of a singular Source and so it's safe to be flexible on this and think big. Consider looking at religion as the interpretation of One reality with many dynamics and many things mixed in with it like culture, traditions, opinions ect ect but they are all attempting to interpret the same reality known as God. There's many commonalities within religions and spiritual sources because even though they vary in beliefs and traditions the purpose of them is the same for each soul. There are many universal principles and they apply to the whole world as a whole not just individual groups or individual religious sects and if you've examined many religious sources like I have you begin to notice the underlying unifying fabric it's pretty cool. God channels Itself in many ways and through many forms to express parts of Itself and souls here can have many different types of experiences.


    So this following verse was just a bunch of misspellings?

    Mathew 7:13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.



    EtrnlVw - BTW I'm sort of an Omnist which means I examine spirituality and religion as a whole and learn from them as a whole. I don't limit my beliefs to one thing or another I embrace all forms of truth even though my background and foundation is Christianity it is not limited to that and people should be aware of these options.

    My friend, embracing all forms of truth IS the foundation of Christianity, and the holiest of fathers the Pope finally cleared it up,



    so all religions, not just the tens of thousands of Christian Religions come before the one-true-god of the Globe Earth, for they all worship him, the lightning from Heaven, the one who has said,;
    ‘I am a god,
    I sit in the seat of the gods,
        in the heart of the seas,’

    Image result for pic of the sea god

  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism said:
    @Evidence,

    You got me there! Yes, we're animals, but we're also above your regular dog because we have a soul, so THOSE animals don't have souls. You follow @Erfisflat? Great to know! Another flat earthier who doesn't know a shred of science! 

    I don't know about this other guy you spoke with, but I'm not going to admit that the Star of David is a sign of Lucifer, you don't even know what that means, Lucifer isn't a name, it isn't even Hebrew, the Hebrew means Venus. Checkmate. 

    What pics on Rashi and Ramban? If it has to do with gays, good luck, they were before that time. These guys were sages, so some respect here, I don't know who you thought they were, my uncle? 

    Angels don't create, what does Satan have to do with Bereshit 1:2 again?

    Baphomet has nothing to do with the Star of David. . . until you prove it!

    Shalom, take care. 
    @Judaism
    So in the evolution of the Spacetime-fabric, when did we apes get our souls?

    Related image  Ken Ham reverse evolution

    Was it micro (gradual millions and billions of years), .. or macro evolution that bumped us up to having souls?
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence,

    I'm not sure. The topic of creation, in Judaism, is what's called the Ma'aseh Bereshit, and the Talmud says (Hagigah ii. 1) that only a great student can tackle such mysticism with his teacher.

    The Rambam wrote: "We have frequently mentioned in this treatise the principle of our Sages 'not to discuss the Ma'aseh Merkabah (chariot vision of Ezekiel) even in the presence of one pupil, except he be wise and intelligent; and then only the headings of the chapters are to be given to him.' We must, therefore, begin with teaching these subjects according to the capacity of the pupil, and on two conditions, first, that he be wise, i.e., that he should have successfully gone through the preliminary studies, and secondly that he be intelligent, talented, clear-headed, and of quick perception, that is, 'have a mind of his own,' as our Sages termed it."

    — The Guide for the Perplexed, Ch. 33

    For most people, we'll never know for sure. The Talmud says that G-d created Adam at the age of 20, Bereshit Rabbah says that men looked like monkeys until the generation of Enoch. But the change must have happened with Adam, as he's named Adam HaRishon, or, "Adam, the first man." This means he was first to be given the soul, and to walk upright. If science is right, and if the Torah is right - both say the world is millions of years old - than yes, it was macro. By the way, nice pic of Ken.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism said:
    @Evidence,

    I'm not sure. The topic of creation, in Judaism, is what's called the Ma'aseh Bereshit, and the Talmud says (Hagigah ii. 1) that only a great student can tackle such mysticism with his teacher.

    The Rambam wrote: "We have frequently mentioned in this treatise the principle of our Sages 'not to discuss the Ma'aseh Merkabah (chariot vision of Ezekiel) even in the presence of one pupil, except he be wise and intelligent; and then only the headings of the chapters are to be given to him.' We must, therefore, begin with teaching these subjects according to the capacity of the pupil, and on two conditions, first, that he be wise, i.e., that he should have successfully gone through the preliminary studies, and secondly that he be intelligent, talented, clear-headed, and of quick perception, that is, 'have a mind of his own,' as our Sages termed it."

    — The Guide for the Perplexed, Ch. 33

    For most people, we'll never know for sure. The Talmud says that G-d created Adam at the age of 20, Bereshit Rabbah says that men looked like monkeys until the generation of Enoch. But the change must have happened with Adam, as he's named Adam HaRishon, or, "Adam, the first man." This means he was first to be given the soul, and to walk upright. If science is right, and if the Torah is right - both say the world is millions of years old - than yes, it was macro. By the way, nice pic of Ken.
    @Judaism ;
    So in other words, Genesis is off limits to the average Jew, and they must be kept ignorant, or perplexed of such things.
     Let's see why Genesis would be too difficult for the average Jew?

    Genesis 1:1  God created the Heaven and the Earth, .. then He said: "Let us make man in our own image!"

    So this would be Rambam to pupil: "Sorry average Jew, that's way beyond your capability to comprehend, only those who have been thoroughly brainwashed with many Sage writings, and who have bobbed their heads in prayer for many, many years against the Roman guard-walls can even start making up stories on how God must have created the Heavens, the earth and man. Just because the 'evolving apes' at Honda created ASIMO the robot, doesn't mean God can create man, what do you think, God evolved in our own image or something? No, .. not so my fellow perplexed student Jew, you are not to even think such things, and we are not to even discuss this in your evolving-ape presence you dumb ape."

    So does that kind of sum up "Judaism"?

    Judaism - The Talmud says that G-d created Adam at the age of 20, Bereshit Rabbah says that men looked like monkeys until the generation of Enoch. But the change must have happened with Adam, as he's named Adam HaRishon, or, "Adam, the first man." This means he was first to be given the soul, and to walk upright. If science is right, and if the Torah is right - both say the world is millions of years old - than yes, it was macro.

    Where did this BereShit come up with men looking like monkeys, surely not from scientific observation, or the Bible!? Besides, did Adam-monkey stand upright after he was given a soul, .. or was it that one day millions and billions of years ago a Jewish-monkey stood upright, and Whamo! .. it speciated into human with a soul?

    The reason I put that Ken Ham picture in is to show how I see the Jews evolving, .. in the reverse. Honestly my friend, I am baffled at how you think and reason, .. it is really mind boggling. But at least it explains why the Jews would pick the boy Gal Gadot as "Miss Israel" ! He is pretty, I admit that, .. but Miss Israel? isn't that deceiving?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    Judaism said:
    @Evidence,

    I'm not sure. The topic of creation, in Judaism, is what's called the Ma'aseh Bereshit, and the Talmud says (Hagigah ii. 1) that only a great student can tackle such mysticism with his teacher.

    The Rambam wrote: "We have frequently mentioned in this treatise the principle of our Sages 'not to discuss the Ma'aseh Merkabah (chariot vision of Ezekiel) even in the presence of one pupil, except he be wise and intelligent; and then only the headings of the chapters are to be given to him.' We must, therefore, begin with teaching these subjects according to the capacity of the pupil, and on two conditions, first, that he be wise, i.e., that he should have successfully gone through the preliminary studies, and secondly that he be intelligent, talented, clear-headed, and of quick perception, that is, 'have a mind of his own,' as our Sages termed it."

    — The Guide for the Perplexed, Ch. 33

    For most people, we'll never know for sure. The Talmud says that G-d created Adam at the age of 20, Bereshit Rabbah says that men looked like monkeys until the generation of Enoch. But the change must have happened with Adam, as he's named Adam HaRishon, or, "Adam, the first man." This means he was first to be given the soul, and to walk upright. If science is right, and if the Torah is right - both say the world is millions of years old - than yes, it was macro. By the way, nice pic of Ken.
    @Judaism ;
    So in other words, Genesis is off limits to the average Jew, and they must be kept ignorant, or perplexed of such things.
     Let's see why Genesis would be too difficult for the average Jew?

    Genesis 1:1  God created the Heaven and the Earth, .. then He said: "Let us make man in our own image!"

    So this would be Rambam to pupil: "Sorry average Jew, that's way beyond your capability to comprehend, only those who have been thoroughly brainwashed with many Sage writings, and who have bobbed their heads in prayer for many, many years against the Roman guard-walls can even start making up stories on how God must have created the Heavens, the earth and man. Just because the 'evolving apes' at Honda created ASIMO the robot, doesn't mean God can create man, what do you think, God evolved in our own image or something? No, .. not so my fellow perplexed student Jew, you are not to even think such things, and we are not to even discuss this in your evolving-ape presence you dumb ape."

    So does that kind of sum up "Judaism"?

    Judaism - The Talmud says that G-d created Adam at the age of 20, Bereshit Rabbah says that men looked like monkeys until the generation of Enoch. But the change must have happened with Adam, as he's named Adam HaRishon, or, "Adam, the first man." This means he was first to be given the soul, and to walk upright. If science is right, and if the Torah is right - both say the world is millions of years old - than yes, it was macro.

    Where did this BereShit come up with men looking like monkeys, surely not from scientific observation, or the Bible!? Besides, did Adam-monkey stand upright after he was given a soul, .. or was it that one day millions and billions of years ago a Jewish-monkey stood upright, and Whamo! .. it speciated into human with a soul?

    The reason I put that Ken Ham picture in is to show how I see the Jews evolving, .. in the reverse. Honestly my friend, I am baffled at how you think and reason, .. it is really mind boggling. But at least it explains why the Jews would pick the boy Gal Gadot as "Miss Israel" ! He is pretty, I admit that, .. but Miss Israel? isn't that deceiving?
    There's that name again... Enoch...
    Evidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • What's wrong with Enoch?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -   edited August 2018
    What's wrong with Enoch?
    I don't think there is anything wrong with Enoch, have you read the book of Enoch? @Evidence and I were questioning it's validity.

    https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/

    http://www.gnosis.org/library/dss/dss_book_of_giants.htm
    Evidence
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    It would take forever to answer each claim of yours, but you did a great job of making yourself totally insensible. Mazal Tov!

    You think that Bereshit is too tough for a Jew, who you call an "ape," by the way, is too complicated? 

    First off, that's not true at all! Anyone can read it for themselves. . . do you really think our rabbis didn't know how to read Bereshit Aleph? What is this? Of course we can! My point was only about what happened BEFORE creation, not what's in the text. You completely misunderstood what I said there. And what about this "ape" thing? That's how the Nazis described us. . . are you a Nazi? I'm not sure if you're too Jewish at all! Look at what's happened to the Karaites, the Sadducees, the supposed "Messianic Jews," all of them, gone. Whoever stepped away from the covenant, and broke the Oral Law, had disappeared. Okay, let's say you're Jewish - you'll like half or whatever, you claim your mother was Jewish. As I recall, she didn't want to be Jewish. Same with you. You DON'T want to identify as a Jew. You think that's vermin or something. You're a follower of the Way, you think the rabbis were not only mistaken, but evil - as your one post shows, you feel they are the children of the Devil, let me remind you that John said that of ALL Jews, so yes, they're all the children of the Devil. I'm a child of the Devil. 

    Real , right? That's utter hogwash. You're not a Jew, you don't identify as one, and you hate them all the same as any Nazi. But just do me one thing please, you can run us down, say we're gay, even accuse the Talmud of nasty stuff it doesn't say, but just do us Jews one favor. . . don't call yourself a Jew when you're not, okay?

    . . . Wew, had to get that off my chest. Now, onto your other silly remarks. 

    You try to stump me by quoting the verse where G-d says, "Let us make man in our image." Fine, let's say that's Jesus there, let's say that when G-d said "us," He wasn't talking about angels or aliens, let's just plainly say it was Jesus. Well. . . you've now got quite a problem in your hand, don't you. Why do I say that? Read the next verse, what does it say?

    "And G-d created man in His image; in the image of G-d He created him; male and female He created them."

    Surprise, surprise! It's in the singular! So how do you explain that? Did G-d just decide He wasn't going to have Jesus anymore? Did He leave Jesus out? Pretty mean of Him, right? I mean, let's say I ask you out - opps! - better not do that, you think gays are awful! . . . Well, I'm not gay, I'm sure of it, but I like the example. Man to man, as G-d (predominately seen as masculine in Christian literature) is to Jesus, another man/divine/creature, whatever. So let's say ""I" ask you out. You get dressed up, put on that lipstick, get all tidy, right? Than. . . you get the phone call. Sorry honey, I'm busy tonight. "Say what!" you scream. "Sorry, I think I'll just go on that date myself." 

    See? This is akin to what G-d supposedly did to Jesus. He asked Jesus to help Him do His homework, to go to the party, to see a movie. . . and then. . . when He thought it over (it only took a verse), He declined the offer. He thought He could go see that movie himself, He didn't need anyone to do the driving. He thought He could dance alone at that concert, or eat that sushi. He thought twice about doing His homework with a guy who has an F himself. G-d thought twice about creating man in the image of two divine beings. He did it Himself and left Jesus under the bus. Sounds real nice, right? 

    No. I say there was no Jesus in the text, and that G-d was only speaking to the angels. Angels can't create, they don't have free will. It's why G-d did it all Himself. It's why the next verse is in the singular. A yeshiva boy knows this, but the supposed Jew who hates Jews and makes no hesitation about it, can't?

    Then Evidence mocks evolution. He says that it couldn't have happened, yet brings no evidence to the contrary. Maybe you should change your name to lack, as in "Lack of evidence." That sounds a lot better.

    It's because you could never bother to learn Hebrew, why you make the goofy mistake in thinking that BereShit means. . . that word. It doesn't. Its Genesis in Hebrew. . . you couldn't take the time to google that?

    I already answered you when Adam became man. He was always a man. Then, Talmud says he once had a tail. I don't have all the answers, if I did, I'd be the Creator! 

    Ken Ham isn't a Jew, but nice try. You say Jews are devolving? Is that how you feel about us? Whatever, Goy.

    Then you say that Gal Godot is really a boy. Well, check out this youtube vid about her life, didn't notice anything there saying that she became a boy. . . it even shows her as a child, do you have cognitive dissonance? Because she clearly looks like a girl in that photo.



    But no, you'll just keep on going, saying how bad "our race" is. That we're all pedophiles or something. 

    I don't care what you say nor what you think, and I'm not a fan of the sarcasm either.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -   edited August 2018
    Judaism said:
    @Evidence

    It would take forever to answer each claim of yours, but you did a great job of making yourself totally insensible. Mazal Tov!

    @Judaism ;


    .. look my friend, I tried using different techniques to wake you up, .. both the Jews, and the Christians who think they are Jews by N.T. association

    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (who is the "King of the Jews".

    .. but I guess it is not your, or any Christians time. God will provide the time for those who, deep inside are seeking the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth! But as the saying goes, "Can you handle the truth?"

    No, .. I am not a Nazi, the Nazis are actually trying to kill me. Yes, I tell you this before the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob (of which none were Jews) that the Nazis have been trying to kill me for the past 40 years, but ask as I may God would not reveal to me why!? Anyways that's another story.

    It Is You who mentioned that man came about by evolution, .. that Adam was an ape-like-human with a tail or whatever your Sages taught you, .. and that the earth is millions and billions or whatever of years old.

    As for what I observed of Jews today both here in the States and in Israel, I explained it, I have shown you YouTube videos of Jews asking Israeli Jews about Jesus, and it is from their testimony (like yours) that I say they are ignorant, and from the likes of Bill Maher, they hate Jesus and the New Testament Bible. This is their main reason for allowing major World Wide LGBT Homosexual horde parade through the streets of Jerusalem where our Lord and King walked.

    https://www.itraveljerusalem.com/article/gay-travel/

    Judaism - Whoever stepped away from the covenant, and broke the Oral Law, had disappeared. Okay, let's say you're Jewish - you'll like half or whatever, you claim your mother was Jewish. As I recall, she didn't want to be Jewish. Same with you. You DON'T want to identify as a Jew.

    The Reason The Jews "disappeared" .. or actually "scattered throughout the world" is explained both in the New Testament and your Old One; because they rejected their Messiah, .. and not only that, but they murdered him. This is not some Nazi propaganda claim, it is in black and white written in the N.T. Bible. Once you study the NT with honest intent, your eyes will be opened and you will both "see" and "understand" what I'm talking about;

    Like this ongoing abomination that Israel has become the Trans-Gender World Capital, and the Jews there are actually proud of this! I mean how deluded can a Jewish Torah-reader who studied Biblical History be to not associate the hideousness of this New Trans World Agenda with the wickedness of Sodom and Gomorrah?

    2 Timothy 3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

    Judaism - Then you say that Gal Godot is really a boy. Well, check out this youtube vid about her life, didn't notice anything there saying that she became a boy. . . it even shows her as a child, do you have cognitive dissonance? Because she clearly looks like a girl in that photo.

    The ZioNazi's (Jews who say they're Jews but are not) snuck the Gal Godot boy in Miss Israel and Miss Universe to make a fool of us, but these; "They Live" creatures are now ready to make the whole world swallow the abomination, .. and from now, the Luciferians are ready to introduce to the world the Dark Truths, that Presidents to First Ladies, .. to our teachers, to military leaders to about 95% of movie STARS, .. yes, just like Lucifer/Baphomet was a Star. Where do you think they got the term "Stars", Baphomet male/female actors and actresses from the start of Holy-wood, all trannies. Look into it, it's under YouTube "Transvestigation", where you will see that even Babe Ruth (Ruthie babe) was a woman, and Merilyn Monroe was a man. Please look at this next video and tell me if that young man looks anything like the big brown eyed little girl she once used to look like?


    It's no more a secret, and I'm sure you are aware of this, the question is; are you Judaism OK with it!?


    You see where this abomination called Miss Trans Israel  'Taline Abu Hanna' going next? Yep, just like Gal Gadot he's also going for Miss Israel, and then it's on to Miss Universe next! Just like All the Movie/Music Stars, Presidents, Queens and Kings have been Transgendered creatures. Do you believe the O.T. depiction of Sodom and Gomorrah?

    Your video, .. look at time 1:11 Two Trannies talking to each other.


    Take another good look at your video, that's a young man with years of female hormone therapy. No child bearing hips, tall, and all the forensics yelling: "I'm a boy". She even admits to it in other interviews, .. they all do, only we don't pay much attention to all those subtle comments and hand signs. Once you know what to look for, it is very evident.

    Judaism - You try to stump me by quoting the verse where G-d says, "Let us make man in our image." Fine, let's say that's Jesus there, let's say that when G-d said "us," He wasn't talking about angels or aliens, let's just plainly say it was Jesus. Well. . . you've now got quite a problem in your hand, don't you. Why do I say that? Read the next verse, what does it say?

    "And G-d created man in His image; in the image of G-d He created him; male and female He created them."

    Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

    Yes, just like it says: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; Would be hard for Adam to be fruitful and multiply without Eve, don't you think? Adam was created in Gods own image, and they created Eve in the image of His son Word, .. look, it says: "male and female He created them."  And here is why God created "them"

    Genesis 2:20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

    Obviously from this we get that "there was no helper comparable"  to Infinite/God either, so He beget a son whom He named Word, through whom He created all things, just as from Adam God beget a "helper comparable for him" a woman, .. and then through woman came all mankind. This is revealed in the N.T. which you as a Jew are not allowed to read. It explains in: John 1:1-

    Next you describe a "Book of Enoch" version of God, .. then some nonsense that I hate Jews, and something about God being gay and giving birth to Jesus and them going out on a date. That's all a Baphomet story coming from none other than the God hater himself Lucifer, who is Transgendering girls to boys so he too could be "like God", where his men give birth, not Gods created woman. Satan hates women.

    Judaism - No. I say there was no Jesus in the text, and that G-d was only speaking to the angels. Angels can't create, they don't have free will. It's why G-d did it all Himself. It's why the next verse is in the singular. A yeshiva boy knows this, but the supposed Jew who hates Jews and makes no hesitation about it, can't?

    No, of course there would be no "Jesus" yet in Genesis story of creation, John 1:1 -   explains clearly who God was talking to "in the Beginning".

    "Let us make man in our own image" is singular??? If God was talking to His Angels, why would he say "let us"? You guys would twist even something as obvious as this to deny your King of kings, yet accept gay presidents and even Trannies over our Lord Jesus Christ, .. why? Don't Jews of today judge a man by what he said and did in his life? Can you tell me what Jesus did and said that Jews hate him so? Because I sure as the Earth is Flat don't see how your Jewish Rabbi's and Sages could even compare with Christs message!? How could all the Haredi Jews read all this without noticing the terrible flaws in prophesy?

    I mean what's this: "We Jews don't like the Messiah God sent us, .. so we're waiting for one that we do like! And while we wait, we might as well have Gay/Tranny Pride Parades here in Jerusalem in spite of what God did to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah!"

    Jesus parable of the Wicked Vinedressers -

    Mathew 21:3 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

    Judaism - Then Evidence mocks evolution. He says that it couldn't have happened, yet brings no evidence to the contrary. Maybe you should change your name to lack, as in "Lack of evidence." That sounds a lot better.

    OK, here: "Lack of Evidence" .. is what I find in the BB-Evolution stories. Better?

    Judaism - It's because you could never bother to learn Hebrew, why you make the goofy mistake in thinking that BereShit means. . . that word. It doesn't. Its Genesis in Hebrew. . . you couldn't take the time to google that?

    Why didn't you say so, why use Hebrew with me when I told you I don't speak it? I thought you were referring to another Judaism Sage or Rabbi? How would you feel if I threw in some Hungarian and Serbo-Croatian into our conversation?

    Judaism - I already answered you when Adam became man. He was always a man. Then, Talmud says he once had a tail. I don't have all the answers, if I did, I'd be the Creator!

    If 'Adam' had a tail, then Adam was NOT always man, simply because men don't have tails, animals do. Unless the writers of the Talmud didn't know their behind from their front? And that ain't no 'tail'.

    Judaism - But no, you'll just keep on going, saying how bad "our race" is. That we're all pedophiles or something. 
    I don't care what you say nor what you think, and I'm not a fan of the sarcasm either.

    This has nothing to do with you personally, it has to do with Judaism and their take on the topic at hand, which is: "God Doesn't exist - change my mind", so how will you change atheist minds when you see things the way they do? Especially the BB-Evolution stuff? I was addressing that, not being sarcastic, I was sticking to the OP.
    Besides, you already have Christian Trinitary followers who also put their Religion over the Bible.
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    Thank you for responding, I will admit, I got sick of all the hateful advertising on this site that I logged off, but now I'm on again. And - no joke - I just happened to get your rebuttal by the way. 

    Again, you quote the words of John, where it mentions, "fake Jews," "Jews who say they are Jews." Then what was Jesus? Asian?

    No, the sad truth is that the Goyim killed our people, my friend, OUR PEOPLE, in the First Crusade, they burnt them in the Synagogue and sung praises to Jesus - including that verse in John - as they did it. Now, are you going to tell me that throughout the entire course of the Middle Ages, they're weren't any real Christians around? Are you going to try and justify this horrendous act by proclaiming to all the world that these people, these murderers who should rot in the deepest pit there is for all eternity, were somehow unfaithful to the world of G-d as they saw it? No, you can't. If you're a Christian, my nameless friend, then you've got blood in your hands too. Not literally, of course I know you wouldn't have taken part in it - but you've got blood because you've rejected G-d's nation, His only nation, for no-good murderers who'd slay for money and call it "Christ."

    By the way, to touch on another point of yours, this whole Khazar myth, it's just that, a myth. There is no archaeological evidence - not a shred - which supports that lousy theory. You should really do some research first before espousing more anti-Semitism from these sites you visit. 

    Then it just gets worse from there. How can I say this as comforting as I can?

    "The Nazis are trying to kill me." So what weird world do you live in? What Nazis? They're none left in any real form. So why are you so afraid? How do you know they're following you! What, is it the Right? They're Nazis? Really? Ya, right, Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov weren't Jews, much like Noach, or even the grandmother of Dovid HaMelech. So I hope that remark of your wasn't some kind of racist thing. Like its bad to be Jewish, because we're all. . . queer or whatever they tell you. So on to some gays, they're in the world, get over it. What have they ever done to harm you? And its wonderful that Yisrael is the only nation in the Middle East protecting their rights. They were born that way, and they have purpose, unless you believe G-d makes mistakes or something. Do you really think that we Jews hate Jesus, and that's why we allow, and, in fact, love the LGBT community? Really? What utter hogwash is this? I've got nothing personal on Jesus, I never met the guy! He lived on the other block! I didn't kill nothin'!

    Yes, the Chazal taught that Adam once had a tail, that we evolved, as stated in our Holy Zohar. What's wrong with it? Just because the science of it all contradicts your beliefs doesn't mean you have to throw punches at others. That's logical enough, right?

    No, the real reason we were scatted amongst the nations is explained by our Chazal. They say that we're to bless the earth with righteousness, and teach people the way of G-d. You see, G-d never gave up on His own children. He'd never do that. Scripture teaches us that G-d will never abandon us for another people. In fact, the prophet states, "I [G-d] never could forget you. See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands." - Yeshayahu 49:15-16. 

    Does that sound like a god to you Who'd later reject His own people i place of Jesus? Hardly. See, it has nothing to do with rejecting Jesus, one could even make the argument that the reason the Second Mikdash was destroyed was because some Jews embraced him. And please don't say we "murdered" Jesus, because that translate to G-d in some cases, and then we're akin to the Christian Devil. A horrible image at best. You should know well that the Romans crucified over 2,000 Jews, and that Pilate was later punished and sent to Rome to answer for his evil deeds, this portrait of the real man sounds far than the one the Gospel writers paint off as weak, helpless, and seeking truth.

    Next, you compare our beautiful nation to Sodom. That is not true in the slightest, those people forced young kids to bed with them. Yisrael is the only nation in the Middle East which gives rights to women. The two couldn't be more different!  

    Sadly, we can't keep going with this conversation, as you and I are like sunset to sun up. We're different by every stroke of the letter. You believe in the mistranslation of "Lucifer," you have no idea what these truly means in Hebrew, and yet, don't seem to mind it. This is low thinking. We. . . as Jews, tend not to want to go there. I'm sorry for you. To claim now that all famous Hollywood actresses and ball players and leaders of nations were really transgender is on the tip of conspiracy. I won't go there. The point with Gal Godot is that they show her image as a child, less you think they hurriedly changed it when she was 2 years old. Knowing you, anything goes. 

    You then make a brutal mistake. Is Jesus G-d's daughter? I'm afraid you said that Chuvah (Eve) was created in the image of the Logos (Word, meaning, Jesus). You fail to understand my point. The first verse is in the plural, G-d is speaking with His heavenly Court, then He decides, in this metaphorical text, to make man. He does so, of course, and as expected - since they're no other gods - in the singular. Read the next verse again. "And G-d  created man in His image." It doesn't say in "the image of the Word."

    Devarim 4:6 is your eternal foe. It says in that verse that nothing can be added or subtracted to the revelation of Sinai, in other words, there's no such thing as "progressive revelation." Now, keep in mind that G-d was signifying to the Jewish nation for all time, how to correctly worship Him. It would make no sense for G-d to say to Moshe Rabbeinu that He is an absolute One, and that we're to worship Him alone, and that if we don't, we'll be punished - and then later changed that in John 1:1, or ever worse, not mention it in the Torah. Evidence, you see, it just can't work this way, and it's so important because its written in black and white in the text! I'm sorry, but if I had to chose between following the word of G-d, in our lovely Torah, which is perfect, or the words of John, I'm going with HaShem all the time. As a Jew I just cannot budge an inch. You may call me stubborn, but we are a stiff-necked people.

    Evidence, I never mentioned the Book of Enoch, I don't believe it came from G-d. Not an inch of it is from the Almighty Creator. It's even a late text, so we have no excuses. And no, G-d doesn't give birth to anything in the literal sense, you simply misread me. The point I was making was satirical, I was presenting a funny scenario where you plan to out on a date, and then decide not to to it. To leave her in pain. This was done to show you the ramifications it would have had on Jesus had G-d promised to work with him to create men and then leave him out of the project in Bereshis. Next time, don't read as fast and you'll catch my point. 

    You then state correctly that Jesus isn't in the text of Bereshis. That's a start. Good. Again, reread Devarim 4:2 if you have to. There can be no John 1:1 unless you stray from Torah truth. Also, why is G-d being so deceptive here? If He was talking to Jesus in Bereshit 1:1, why not just say the name, "Jesus"? And if He couldn't for whatever reason you can think up of, like G-d not being all-knowing into the future to figure out what His Son would be called, then He could have at the least said, "The Word," as in John. Since it's not there, we have to assume it's a later edition to the original Hebrew text in John, and exists only outside of it, which means it isn't true.

    You then state that I hate Jesus, and question my hatred of him. Again, I never met the guy to make an impression! And second, many Chazal said similar things to Jesus, and its a debate as to who said what first. Take, for instance, Helli, he said, like Jesus, "That which is hateful to you do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole of the Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn." Sound similar, right? 

    So much for the message of the Chazal inferior to Jesus. So, have we Orthodox Jews - I'm personally not a hasid - somehow failed to see the clear message of prophecy clearly pointing to Jesus? Well, I'll offer all the Messianic prophecies below, and you tell me!

    1.) He will restore the Jewish people to the land of Yisrael, and, if I may add, every last one of them (Yeshayahu 11:11-12, 27:12-13, 43:5-6, Yirmiyahu 16:15, 23:3, 23:8, 30:3, Zechariah 8:3-8, 10:6-10, Yechezkel 34:11-46, 36:24-28, 37:21-22, Hoshea 3:4-5, Yoel 4:1-2, Amos 9:14-15, Michah 2:12, Tzephaniah 3:18-20). When Jesus was alive, there was no Israel to restore to the Jewish people, they were already living there!

    2.) When the Messiah comes, he will rebuild the Third Temple (Mikdash) (Shemot 25:8, Yeshayahu 33:20, 56:7, Yirmiyahu 33:17-18, Yechezkel 37:26-28, 43:7), not only did Jesus fail in this respect, but the Jewish Messiah will have physical children and offer a bull for his own sins (see Yechezkel 37:25, 45:17-22). Something Church teaching couldn’t possibly accept!

    3.) The Messiah will cause a world-wide recognition of the G-d of Yisrael, all hearts will turn to Him, and He will initiate a new covenant with His people (Yeshayahu  2:3, 11:9-10, Michah 4:2-3, Zechariah 8:23, 14:9, Yirmiyahu 31:33, Tzephaniah 3:9). If Jesus had any potential to be the Messiah, he would have had to accomplish this task, since the advent of Christianity, however, the Jews were exiled from their land as the Temple was laid waste. After that horrific event, Jews have been killed, raped, and driven out from practically every country in Europe. The people of the world don't acknowledge one G-d, in fact there are more world religions today than ever before, with Christian missionaries spending billions of dollars each year just to convert the Jew.

    4.) All the dead will rise (Yeshayahu 26:16, Daniel 12:2, Yechezkel 37:12-13). Only the New Testament claims to have witnessed five-hundred people resurrect with Jesus (what happened to the rest?) furthermore, this claim doesn't exist in outside sources, you'd think someone else would have noticed such an extraordinary event and kept record!


    5.) Finally, there will be an everlasting world peace among the nations, and sin, for the most part, will crumble (Yeshayahu 2:4, 11:6-9, Tzefaniah 3:13). I ask you, is there world peace? Just seventy-two years ago, as of this writing, World War II ceased, and finally, the casualty list of six million innocent lives were revealed to mankind. Is this the Christian version of world peace? To me, these passages are meant to be taken literal, they are what we call "graphic texts," meaning, they don't have to be interpreted. The Scriptures are all too clear on this issue and Christianity's Messiah has NOT brought upon a physical world peace.

    Then you speak unspeakable things, Evidence! Really, that we'd slay the only Messiah we're to have and opt for a better one? As if we had the choice? This is nonsense 101. I purpose that Jesus never was the Mashiach from the start.

    I can point to all kinds of evidence for evolution, it'll make you cry, but I don't want to do that.
    Again, Evidence, you must - IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST - that you learn Hebrew to understand Tanakh. Without the knowledge of Hebrew, the Tanakh is a senseless translation. Hebrew can never be translated properly. Take the time to pray the matter over. And I'm just writing out the pronunciation of Hebrew, not the actual letters. 

    Your witticism is good, I'll admit to that. But I'm sure our Chazal knew what a wee wee is and what a tail is. Humans have, what you'd call, 'little tails' on their behind. So yes, we had tails once.

    Sadly, I'm not sure we're you're getting this notion that we'd shove the Torah over the bus for commentaries. It's simply untrue; then again, I can't expect you to have thought any differently, when was the last time you read Pirkei Avot?
    Evidence
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Judaism - Thank you for responding, I will admit, I got sick of all the hateful advertising on this site that I logged off, but now I'm on again. And - no joke - I just happened to get your rebuttal by the way.

    Glad you're back to see it!

    Judaism - Again, you quote the words of John, where it mentions, "fake Jews," "Jews who say they are Jews." Then what was Jesus? Asian?

    Why, you think that this Christian Jesus was a Jew? He's not, but a Roman Catholic male/female god, specifically their sun-god.

    Judaism - No, the sad truth is that the Goyim killed our people, my friend, OUR PEOPLE, in the First Crusade, they burnt them in the Synagogue and sung praises to Jesus - including that verse in John - as they did it.

    Yes, so true. They sang to their Roman catholic Jesus, this sun-god of theirs just as our Jewish Messiah prophesied they would.

    Mathew 24:For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

    Judaism - Now, are you going to tell me that throughout the entire course of the Middle Ages, they're weren't any real Christians around? 

    You still won't listen, .. Those Were the REAL Christians, .. only it's like I'm talking to that Roman Fort Wall in Israel that the Jewish Rabbi's are bobbing their heads against in prayer, thinking it's the remains of Solomon's Temple. So since neither they (Rabbis), nor you, nor any so called gentile-Christian will listen to me, then what's the use? All I hear is my own echo, .. my own echo, ..
    But, only God knows, so here again, being a stubborn, stiffed necked person!

    Around 300 - 325AD the R.C.C. under Emperor Constantine gathered all the O.T. Scriptures and the letters of the Apostles, and used the mock name calling word "Christian" that has been circulating since the Apostles started a large church in Antioch, and used it to create the most powerful Organized Religion on the face of the earth. They knew that these writings had power, so they used it. Only not with Christs love, turning their cheek if slapped, but with Constantine's sword.

    Since it is Satan that leads the church, he had all the remaining scattered remnants of Early Believers, those who were "of the Way" murdered, both Jews and Gentiles so the RCC could use both the New and Old testaments to proselytize their own gods, this "three gods- in one-gods, gods" held together, Not Biblically, but through their senseless Trinity Doctrine. Using that, and with the sword went out to conquer the whole world and make everyone bow to their own Jesus sun god.
    I know, you will just revert back to our 1,700 year old MK-Ultra training, where Bible + Jesus = Christian
     box.
    Look art the sheeple, billions of deceived Christian men and now even women, .. going out and killing fellow Christians, and both sides are being blessed by the Pope, and every Christian Minister on both sides of the war.
     YES, .. for the past two thousand years the Pope was blessing both sides of the wars, including Hitler and the Nazi German army while they were butchering the Jews. But since Satan hates all humans, he doesn't discriminate, so he turned brothers against brothers, Christian against Christians, and if you went to a Christian Baptist Church, including every other denomination Ministers do the same!
    Remember this popular Christian saying: "Pray For Our Troops!" which you will find in all Christian Churches on both sides of the war!

    Judaism - Are you going to try and justify this horrendous act by proclaiming to all the world that these people, these murderers who should rot in the deepest pit there is for all eternity, were somehow unfaithful to the world of G-d as they saw it? No, you can't. If you're a Christian, my nameless friend, then you've got blood in your hands too. Not literally, of course I know you wouldn't have taken part in it - but you've got blood because you've rejected G-d's nation, His only nation, for no-good murderers who'd slay for money and call it "Christ."

    Yes, I confess that I have blood on me, and bare all the cripling bruises and scars to this day, but not for sticking up for Christian atrocities, but because I was against it since I could walk and talk, .. and continue to suffer even today.

    Judaism - By the way, to touch on another point of yours, this whole Khazar myth, it's just that, a myth. There is no archaeological evidence - not a shred - which supports that lousy theory. You should really do some research first before espousing more anti-Semitism from these sites you visit.

    Are you serious, coming from a Jew who says he reads the Bible even in Hebrew? What are you talking about my friend? All anyone has to do is read the Bible, either the Old or the New Testament to see just what kind of people us Jews were!? 

    Then it just gets worse from there. How can I say this as comforting as I can?

    Judaism - "The Nazis are trying to kill me." So what weird world do you live in? What Nazis? They're none left in any real form.

    Oy vey iz mir, oh weh, .. woe is me, .. No Nazis? This country, and the world is run by Nazis, with the help of the Zionists. Where have you been? Please don't tell me that you are one of those Jews who believe that after the War, those natorious Hard-core German SS soldiers just folded up their uniforms, placed them under a tree, and went back to being nice normal, loving, family oriented kind world citizens!???
    They (German Dentists) removed all my good teeth, where now after some years, every month or so I spit the top half out. After a few years ago them offering to fix up all my teeth, now I come to find out that the German dentists drilled out some, and cut off the rest of my good teeth and cemented them back on. After a few years, now every few months I'm spitting out chunks of half teeth because the cement are giving out, which, looking back to how it was done, I know it was planned.
    But never mind, you believe in Evolution, support their LGBT Baphomet warriors, .. so as long as they, .. you know as in "They Live" have use for you, even if it's just to allow you to open your house/country to the LGBT horde, they will tolerate you.

    Judaism - So why are you so afraid? How do you know they're following you!

    Me, afraid, after what I've been through, and continue to go through?
    You see from the events over the years, we, ..that is both the Germans and me know that God has Angels watching over me, .. way too many attempts on my life to list here.
    But I will tell you this, that you being a Jew should be afraid, especially with your foundation of faith. If you really are a Jew, and I was to open your eyes, you would bar your doors and windows, then lock yourself in the house and never come out!

    Judaism - What, is it the Right? They're Nazis? Really?

    Umm yes, Germans, like with whom I grew up amongst, have family with, .. went to a very conservative Christian Church with, them! 

    Judaism - Ya, right, Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov weren't Jews, much like Noach, or even the grandmother of Dovid HaMelech. So I hope that remark of your wasn't some kind of racist thing. Like its bad to be Jewish, because we're all. . . queer or whatever they tell you. So on to some gays, they're in the world, get over it. What have they ever done to harm you? And its wonderful that Yisrael is the only nation in the Middle East protecting their rights.

    Prayer:
    My God, my God, you really did blind your people, and this just proves that this last big, and final  coming destruction in the name of One World Order will leave only a tiny fragment of them.
    But Lord, .. you said that if we ask anything in your name that you will intercede for us with the Father and grant it!? So I pray Lord for every Christian, every Jew on this Forum that you "open their eyes", .. so they can see the evil they are condoning, and that they would "see you Lord Jesus" and not the Christian sun-god who has taken seat in the temple of God just as prophesied!

    2 Corinthians 6:

    Be Holy

    11 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open. 12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections. 13 Now in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open.

    14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers (LGBT hoard). For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what [e]communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols?

    For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

    “I will dwell in them
    And walk among them.
    I will be their God,
    And they shall be My people.”

    17 Therefore

    “Come out from among them
    And be separate, says the Lord.
    Do not touch what is unclean,
    And I will receive you.”
    18 “I will be a Father to you,
    And you shall be My sons and daughters,
    Says the Lord Almighty.

    Judaism - They were born that way, and they have purpose, unless you believe G-d makes mistakes or something.

    So God made Cain to kill Abel??

    Judaism - Do you really think that we Jews hate Jesus, and that's why we allow, and, in fact, love the LGBT community? Really? What utter hogwash is this?

    Action speaks louder than words, and Jews are in the forefront in condoning all LGBT groups, including offering psychiatric help in family planning for those in the LGBT group who "prefer" bestiality, meaning marrying their pets! Yes, Jewish psychometrists and lawyers, fighting for so called "their annealable human rights", .. remembering the Holocaust and using that as a basis, and a driving force to pass New Laws. And yes, eliminating both the gender, and the age of consent.

    Judaism - I've got nothing personal on Jesus, I never met the guy! He lived on the other block! I didn't kill nothin'!
    Yes, the Chazal taught that Adam once had a tail, that we evolved, as stated in our Holy Zohar. What's wrong with it? Just because the science of it all contradicts your beliefs doesn't mean you have to throw punches at others. That's logical enough, right?

    Funny isn't it? The whole world, including every other major Religion acknowledges Jesus Christ teachings in one form or another, but Jews, .. well they really don't have any need, .. any use for him!?
    If science claims that man/Adam had a tail, that means he was created in the image of an animal, some kind of monkey! For a Jew who can read and understand the Bible in its original language, that buddy is straight out blasphemy! Hate against the Creator Himself, which will not be forgiven no matter what your man inspired holy books say!

    Judaism - No, the real reason we were scatted amongst the nations is explained by our Chazal. They say that we're to bless the earth with righteousness, and teach people the way of G-d. You see, G-d never gave up on His own children. He'd never do that. Scripture teaches us that G-d will never abandon us for another people. In fact, the prophet states, "I [G-d] never could forget you. See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands." - Yeshayahu 49:15-16. 
             Does that sound like a god to you Who'd later reject His own people i place of Jesus? Hardly. See, it has nothing to do with rejecting Jesus, one could even make the argument that the reason the Second Mikdash was destroyed was because some Jews embraced him. And please don't say we "murdered" Jesus, because that translate to G-d in some cases, and then we're akin to the Christian Devil. A horrible image at best. You should know well that the Romans crucified over 2,000 Jews, and that Pilate was later punished and sent to Rome to answer for his evil deeds, this portrait of the real man sounds far than the one the Gospel writers paint off as weak, helpless, and seeking truth.

    Oh man, .. in over 2,000 years and nothing changed in the hearts and minds of the Jews regarding how you feel about our King, .. our Messiah!? Can you imagine him coming down from Heaven for a day, and walking around the cities he taught in, where he was rejected by his own people and end up being crucified and see this:

    Related imageRelated image

    Judaism - Next, you compare our beautiful nation to Sodom. That is not true in the slightest, those people forced young kids to bed with them. Yisrael is the only nation in the Middle East which gives rights to women. The two couldn't be more different!  

    Sadly, we can't keep going with this conversation, as you and I are like sunset to sun up. We're different by every stroke of the letter. You believe in the mistranslation of "Lucifer," you have no idea what these truly means in Hebrew, and yet, don't seem to mind it. This is low thinking. We. . . as Jews, tend not to want to go there. I'm sorry for you. To claim now that all famous Hollywood actresses and ball players and leaders of nations were really transgender is on the tip of conspiracy. I won't go there. The point with Gal Godot is that they show her image as a child, less you think they hurriedly changed it when she was 2 years old. Knowing you, anything goes. 

    Yes, I agree that "sadly we are the opposites as night is from day", .. and oh how I pray that you come out into the light and follow The Way, The Truth and the Life"!?

    Oh no, not hurriedly! The Boy Godot was chosen way before he was born, .. going back all the way to time of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    You contradicted yourself in your rebuttal. "Why [do] you think Jesus was a Jew? He's not," to saying, "our Jewish Messiah." Um. . . . This is what happens when you leave Torah Judaism, just kidding! I should have been a comedian, right?

    But in all seriousness, Evidence, my nameless friend, I'm glad you don't justify those acts of the Christian Church. But just think of it, where did Hitler get his rationale from? From John. It all started there. John says that we Jews are the children of the Devil, therefore, and rightfully so in that perspective, Hitler had all the ammunition he needed to purify the Germany race of these so-called vermin. But that's the logic in it. You see, the Gospel of john - especially John - is very anti-Semitic, and you seem not to mind that, that's what's scary. It because of people like you, that we Jews are constantly persecuted to this day. My own family was forced - FORCED - to leave Poland for the States because they were Jews.

    Evidence, you then mention an important point I'd like to touch on. What is the Western Wall? From our Holy Second Mikdash. Is it original? G-d promised it was, and that it would never fall. So what are your arguments against it, I'd like to hear them? You call me stiff-necked, but I tell you, its for good reason.

    Just think of it, which faith has G-d determin to preserve? Was it the Christian faith, was it the followers of the Way? Was it Pharisaic Judaism? Look at the Tzadoki, do they exist anymore, do you perhaps know a guy next door who's a Sadducee? What about Karaites, another glorious group, where are they? They don't exist anymore in any real form, a few families in Yisrael, that's all what's left of them. Are you seeing my point? Those who have strayed from our Oral Torah, our Holy Mesorah, have lost the covenant. Wouldn't it have been more glorious, my friend, had the Jerusalem Church, the Mother Assembly, survived the Roman assault, and Pharisaic Judaism, destroyed? Wouldn't it have cemented for all time which Way we're all really to follow? You see, G-d chose to vindicate our fathers, our rabbis, over your new movement, and no matter what light the New Testament puts them under, these Pharisees loved the G-d of Yisrael with all their heart and soul. Now your cult-system, on the flip-side, reads more like a modern cult, like Mormonism. You claim that for all time, there's been an apostasy, and that the real Church has been in the shadows until you were born to figure it out. But would G-d wait in the shadows? He told the prophet, "Not in secret did I speak, in a place of a land of darkness; I did not say to the seed of Yaakov, Seek Me, in vain; I am Adonai, Who speaks righteousness, I declare things that are right." That's Yeshayahu 45:19. You see, G-d never hides in the shadows, He wouldn't let His world, His creation, cave in like that. We all know where the true faith lies, and its miles off from Christianity!

    You make this big thing out of Constantine creating perhaps the "most powerful organized religion on the face of the earth." Really? Last time I checked, scholars said Christians only made 5% of his empire! Furthermore, isn't it interesting that he wasn't a Christian at all? Doesn't that destroy your argument? I think so. How do I know this? Because he stayed a pagan, and Christianity wasn't officiated under his reign by far. It must have took half a lifetime to think over about the fundamentals of this new faith, for it was mysterious, convoluted, and nefarious. After all, both Councils of Nicea were separated by decades (325-381 CE).

    You then state, blindly, that the Pope was a puppet for Hitler. This is far from the truth, evidence attests otherwise. Yes, it was wrong for Pope Pious to let Hitler get away with all those Jew waiting at his doorstep to be saved literally from death, and I cannot forgive him for it, but to claim he was a Nazi? That he was on their side? Sickening at best. Your New Testament might have influenced Hitler - and I'm sure it did - but the Pope himself wasn't a Nazi. He wasn't one of those disgusting scums of the earth. Sure, they're were bad popes, popes who'd let women walk naked through the Vatican, and I'm in no way condoning those acts, but Pope Pious wan't a Nazi. 

    Sadly, your next remark is even more disturbing. It suggested the notion that we, the Jews, as a people, have somehow failed the G-d of Yisrael. This couldn't be further from the truth. Below, I provide you a lengthy article I wrote some years back disproving an odd theory called biblical criticism. A segment of that is devoted to proving how we, the Jewish nation, have served G-d as best as possible, and how G-d has chosen to bless us, something you missed out on when you became a follower of the Way, a mock of Christianity. I present it below, stick with me here. I have some more things to say after it.

    ***
    On a further note, the detractors are also wrong about the generation wandering in the desert. They were a rightful lot, whom G-d, speaking through the wicked prophet Bil'am, called, "Holy" (Bamidbar 23:8,20-23). Were they truly evil, HaShem would have no right saying otherwise!

    Briefly, let us recount all the sins committed by the Jews for the first two years until Korach's revolt.

    Firstly, in Shemot 5:19-21, some Jews rebuked Moshe for leading them into the desert with no protection. Christians call this a rebellion, I call this reasonable! What had Moshe been a false prophet? Anyway, this in itself wasn't seen as a bad sin in G-d's eyes. Let's knock it off. In Shemot 14, the Jews complain once more since they're caught between either the Sea of Reeds or Pharaoh's army. Would you call this a serious sin? It won't work. Shemot 15:22-24, 16:2-3 and 17:1-3, recount how the Jews complained for various reasons, one of them, for food and water. . . then again, we must give them credit for following an unknown man into the desert for forty years! What about Shemot 16:20? Some people left their manna, and in verse 27, a few of them walked long distances (not allowed) on Shabbat to see if they could find it. But all of these small sins were committed due mostly to curiosity, not aggression against G-d.

    The next claim Christians propose is that all the Jews became idolaters when they beheld the golden calf, but let's get real for a moment, this is nothing more than Hollywood at play, for Shemot 32:28 makes it perfectly known that only 3,000 took part in this huge gamble of sin. Even worse yet, the Christians blame Aharon for making the calf - in an attempt to stall for time! Again, not only was he not punished by HaShem, but rewarded: The former rights of the first-born were removed and given to him! Also make note that the reason for Aharon not entering the Promised Land had nothing to do with the golden calf (see Bamidbar 20:7-12). The only sins that affected individuals can be found in Vayikra 24:10-23 (where a Jew cursed G-d), and Bamidbar 15:32 (where a convert snubbed Shabbat in order to be a l’shem shamayim).

    In Bamidbar 11, fire from heaven was sent down and burnt some sinners on the outskirts of camp for a protest against G-d.

    Next were the ten spies who convinced the Jews to temporarily lose faith in their G-d and not enter Eretz Yisrael earlier. When the people realized what they had done, it was too late and they were punished. In Bamidbar 14:22, G-d tells us that He's been tested ten times thus far - though we've only seen roughly two serious sins (those being the golden calf and the spies)! On top of it all, most of the events described above happened BEFORE the giving of the Torah, hence, the people's knowledge of these sins were limited. However, once given the Torah, the people studied day and night with Moshe Rabbeinu. It is then utterly ridiculous for Christians to even attempt to lay claim that the Jews knew next to nothing when it came to the law, whereas by the same token, Izevel (I Melachim 21:2-10) was a genius in the field! Do you really think the sons of Yisrael could not tell the difference between whether grabbing for an esrog or a pumpkin on Succos?

    The last big sin occurred when Korach and 250 of his followers revolted against Moshe Rabbeinu. Then, for the next thirty-eight years, peace. Until Bamidbar 20:1, 4-5, there were no sins committed by the Jews. Then, in Bamidbar 25:1-9, the Goyim, the daughters of Mo'av, from the council of Bil'am, got some Jews to be seduced into worshiping idols - but whom did G-d blame, the women or the Jews? The Jews, as it later turns out in Bamidbar 31:16, were blameless. Hence, from the record of the Torah, there were three major sins committed in the first two years, then peace for thirty-seven years. Overall, the Jews kept their Shabbat (when possible) and no one ever complained against them throughout the rest of Tanakh. In other words, there was no rebellion for forty years in the desert!

    Then comes the era of the shoftim, a reign of about 400 years with enough sins to count on your fingertips! Obviously, King Ach'av was the worst (because he used Torah law to indirectly murder), besides that, the laws were kept intact, and the Jews were always beckoning HaShem for His aide and guidance. [1]

    Let's quote some verses so that you can get a feeling of the times.

    In Devarim 8:10, we read: "And you shall eat and be satisfied, and bless HaShem your G-d for the good land which He has given you."

    The verse teaches us to bless G-d after eating, the Oral Law makes one more recommendation: Do it prior, too! After all, that's all the sixth chapter of tractate Brachos is all about! That's where we derive the message from I Shmuel 9:13,

    "For the people will not eat until he come, because he does bless the sacrifice, and afterwards they eat that are bidden." 

    More proof that the shoftim followed the Written and Oral Torahs.

    "And the kohanim answered Dovid, and said, `There is no common bread, if only the young men have kept themselves from women.'" (I Shmuel 21:5)
     
    The Jews, as can be assessed from this verse alone, are strictly following Vayikra 22:4 of being ritually cleaned: "If a man of the seed of Aharon is a leper, or has an issue, he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean."

    "And Sha'ul had put away those that divined by a ghost or a familiar spirit out of the land." (I Shmuel 28:3)

    Here, Sha'ul is citing Vayikra 20:27. During the First Beit HaMikdash, we can see Jews observing Shabbat and Rosh Chodesh without exception. Examples of this are seen in II Melachim 4:23, Hoshea 2, and Amos 8:5. Let us please recall that the last two prophets of his generation lived in a time with the kingdom of Yisrael was considered, for the most part, to be very wicked - yet they still observed the Torah precepts.

    Vayikra 13:46 commands us to keep lepers outside the city walls. Even though Na'aman lived with his wife and servants (II Melachim 5:1-5), he kept his lepers outside the gate (II Melachim 7:3).

    Devarim 24:16 tells us that the father shall not be put to death for the sins committed by the son and vice-versa. II Melachim 14:6 admits to having followed this custom. [2]

    Overall, we've seen that the Jews observed both the Written and Oral Torahs since time immortal, and even up till the last books of the Hebrew Bible. Furthermore, it is mere exaggeration to claim that the children of Yisrael were anything but good - of course there were wicked people at times, they'll always be some rotten eggs in anyone's basket, but overall, B'nai Yisrael kept her brit with G-d. In other words, the Jews never forgot their laws as some detractors of Judaism and the Oral Law would have us think.

    And yet another claim put forward by those who discharge the Oral Law as fictitious nonsense is that Yoshiyahu HaMelech never saw a Torah scroll until his eighteenth reign when the Mikdash was under reconstruction! But let us cross-reference this with II Divrei Hayamim 34:3 and we get a very different story. Here, we discover Yoshiyahu focusing all his strengths on G-d by his eighth reign as opposed to idol worship. The prophets, Hilkiyahu and Yirmiyahu - (from the thirteenth year of his reign, see Yirmiyahu 1:2) - advised him to drop the previous false gods. It is silly to claim that these prophets somehow didn't know their own law!

    Let's examine the claim: Yoshiyahu was considered a righteous king since the time of Chizkia (II Melachim 22:2). Clearly, like his father, Dovid HeMelech, Yoshiyahu must have known his Torah scroll from a very young age to have very been called "righteous" under G-d's eyes (I Melachim 9:4, 11:38). 

    In II Divrei Hayamim 34:14, we read that the Prophet Hilkiyahu discovered one of the original Torah scrolls written by Moshe Rabbeinu (note that this was NOT the first scroll discovered in a long time), and presented it to the king. In it was found a prophecy from Devarim 31:24-26 that this scroll would be discovered in the ark, in the Mikdash - and that if it went unheeded, G-d would be very angry at the idol worship some of the people were committing. When Yoshiyahu realized this error, he quickly submitted to G-d for penance (II Divrei Hayamim 34:19).

    I Shmuel 4:19-22 recounts with vivid detail, a portrait of how the people felt about the rediscovery of Moshe's original handwritten scroll. As a dying woman gives birth to her newborn child, she hears the news of both the twin deaths of her husband and father-in-law, and along with it, the discovery of the ark - and instead of focusing her energies on birth or tragedy, she exclaims with great joy about the ark - they're her last words. How much more devotion can a person give to G-d?

    What we next read in Yeshayahu 52:3, 5, is astounding. We find that HaShem considers the sins of Yisrael to be minor, in fact, "nothing." Then, in Yeshayahu 40:2, He is only preoccupied with punishing the Goyim who had done Yisrael wrong since she suffered unjustly due to her limited count of sins - furthermore, HaShem shows us how He truly loves the Jewish nation as described in Yeshayahu 43:4. 

    What does Zechariah 1:14-15 say? G-d tells us that while He may be a "little displeased" with our sinful actions, He is far angrier at the Gentile nations who caused us great grief. As a consequence to this, the Creator promises never again to flood the world (Yeshayahu 54:9-10), but to the generation that sins, He promises to wipe them out (Yirmiyahu 2:2-3). [3]

    Finally, in Yirmiyahu 31:35-37, 33:14-26, Ezra 36:7-1, II Shmuel 7:2, Malachi 1:2, Zechariah 2:12, Amos 3:2, and Devarim 8:5, we discover that HaShem will never, NEVER replace us with another nation, not even a spiritual one. Any exile that was done to us was not done out of hatred, but out of pity in the hope that we may learn from it - as a father chastens his son, so does G-d chastens Yisrael. 

    This is why G-d sent us the prophets (II Divrei Hayamim 24:1, II Melachim 17:13, Yirmiyahu 44:4, Zechariah 1:4), to improve our status.

    Although we've seen so many verses claiming G-d only loves the Jews, this is not to say that He doesn't care for the rest of creation, quite the contrary! Yeshayahu 49:6 has this to say on the Jew's mission to the Gentile world:

    "And He [G-d] said, 'It is too light for you to be My servant, to establish the tribes of Yaakov and to bring back the besieged of Yisrael, but I will make you a light of nations, so that My salvation shall be until the end of the earth.'"

    Christians are then caught with their hands in the cookie jar, using false pretenses and accusations against Yisrael for neglecting the laws they never forgot!

    ***

    . . . Your remarks just get worse from here. This is truly upsetting. What kind of crazy conspiracy are you following here? The Zionists and Nazis are working together?

    . . . I can't comment on this. . . . 

    I should be the one saying, "Oy vey!"

    . . . those Germans who fought for the Nazis. . . yes, they folded their uniforms. Why else? They lost the war. It was finished at Berlin for all time (hopefully). Yes, are they're Neo-Nazis? Of course! But they're not the same as in the form of a governing body ruling the state, thank G-d. Hopefully we will never experience something as horrific as this again. I don't know about your German dentist. How do you know he was purposefully hurting you? You don't know it was planned, you think it was planned. If you're having attempts on your life, and getting away with, how can I join you? We'd never die, literally!

    Evidence, you think me, a Jew, who knows and studies Talmud, doesn't know his own Judaism? That if he knew the truth, he'd hide in the closet? This shows me that you don't understand our beautiful faith.

    You commented that G-d made Cain kill Abel. Well, He does create evil (Yeshayahu 45:7), but gives us free will; I can tell you didn't read Bereshis 4:7, there, you'll find that G-d warns Cain NOT to kill.

    I'm not sure about your point that some Jews are allowing beastiality and eliminating the age of consent. I've never heard of this, do you have real sources, or is this another blind statement to be emotional?

    . . . And I never said G-d created Adam in the image of a monkey. Had you read Rambam, you'd know that "in His image" really pertains to intellect, purity, and ethics. In other words, G-d wasn't trying to communicate to us to idea of a body, but Mind.

    You then point out that some people walk naked in the street, I can't speak for them nor condone their actions. Why do you try and play it on as if I'm not opposed to it? As far as the second image is concerned, I respect the gay pride, even though I myself am not gay.

    Lastly, you end with something that is utter nonsense. That Gal Gadot was "chosen" to be a transgender long before she - opps, I means he, was born. What is this, astrology? Read Rambam, he hated that stuff, and so should you.
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence

    Just noticed I forgot the footnotes, it's late, will post that tmr.
  • JudaismJudaism 180 Pts   -  
    @Evidence:

    The footnotes:

    1. For details, see Shoftim 2:4-5, 4:3, 6:6, 10:10, 20:23, and 21:2

    2. Also see Yechezkel 18:20-22

     3. See me paper on why the flood of Noach had to be local, here. [link inactive, can offer upon request]

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1675 Pts   -  
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @Judaism - You contradicted yourself in your rebuttal. "Why [do] you think Jesus was a Jew? He's not," to saying, "our Jewish Messiah." Um. . . . This is what happens when you leave Torah Judaism, just kidding! I should have been a comedian, right?

    Lol, .. it did look like I was contradicting myself, but I was talking about the sun-god Jesus that the RCC created and worship.

    Related image

    I was referring to the Catholic Christian sun-god;
    "Why, you think that this Christian Jesus was a Jew? He's not, but a Roman Catholic male/female god, specifically their sun-god"
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