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Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?

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  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42


    apathy
    /ˈapəTHē/
    noun
    1. lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.
    So, why do you think it is that you have so much antipathy towards those that do not follow a religion?

    I'm pro athiest, pro theist, and pro religious.

    So, I'm unsure, of who you're trying to address, with your individual choice of words? 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say ......
    Your vain attitude is showing.

    My reply ....Thank you for your assessment Dr Freud 

    You say .....I don't drink,

    My reply .....Congrats ......twelve step program was it?

    You say ......and second of all, I don't live my life, according to how you think, so you can apply your imagined words towards someone, who rightfully deserves them?

    My reply .....I’ve hit a raw nerve have I? Don’t reach for that bottle buddy 
    Plaffelvohfen

  • I'm pro athiest, pro theist, and pro religious.

    Ah, so you're a religious person that believes in God as well as an Atheist that is anti-religious and disbelieve in God? 




  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Go ahead and judge, when you don't even know me, right?

    Real world question, do you KNOW me?

    If you don't, then why hide behind your own words then?

    "You say .....I don't drink, 

    My reply .....Congrats ......twelve step program was it?

    You say ......and second of all, I don't live my life, according to how you think, so you can apply your imagined words towards someone, who rightfully deserves them?

    My reply .....I’ve hit a raw nerve have I? Don’t reach for that bottle buddy."

    Is Dee, maybe really a guy, and is using a ladies name, to push her/ his own narratives, via their own keyboard via their own computer? 


  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @ZeusAres42

    When are you going to start engaging in a real world debate, in regards to this question, ( Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?)

    Instead of playing around? 

    I'm pro athiest, pro theist, and pro religious.

    "Ah, so you're a religious person that believes in God as well as an Atheist that is anti-religious and disbelieve in God?"

    ZeusAres42Dee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say ....Is Dee, maybe really a guy, and is using a ladies name, to push her/ his own narratives, via their own keyboard via their own computer? 

    My reply .....On the bottle again buddy as that’s the only explanation for the nonsense you’ve just posted 
    ZeusAres42Plaffelvohfen
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @Dee

    Says the person with another anonymous name, and playing on the internet.

    @ZeusAres42 ;

    When are you going to start engaging in a real world debate, in regards to this question, ( Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?)

    Instead of playing around? 

    ZeusAres42
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say .....Says the person with another anonymous name, and playing on the internet

    My reply .....Ahh right so me and @ZeusAres42 are one and the same person now .....oooookay , still on the bottle buddy are you buddy?
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    "My reply .....Ahh right so me and @ZeusAres42are one and the same person now."

    Says the person with another anonymous name, and playing on the internet

    Nope, two separate people with anonymous names, giving the religious individuals a hard time? 

    "Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?"


    And where is your conjoined evidence, that Christians are defending the Bible, in the way that the above question, is depicting them? 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You ask .....And where is your conjoined evidence, that Christians are defending the Bible, in the way that the above question, is depicting them? 

    My reply ......Ahhh right , so they’re not defending them so they agree they’re immoral......excellent 
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Who are you judging via your individual comment?

    The Christian kids, teenagers, or Millinials?

    The Christian parent's, or parent, foster parent, or step parents? 

    Or maybe the Christian minister, or preacher, or maybe the parishioners themselves? 

    Where does your individual judgement towards them reside? 

    "My reply ......Ahhh right , so they’re not defending them so they agree they’re immoral......excellent."

    And again, where is your evidence, that Christians are defending the Bible, in the way that the above question, is depicting them? 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    I haven’t a clue what you’re bleating about , when you sober up get back to me 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @Dee

    Here's the them of the forum:

    "Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?"


    Here's my talking points:

    Who are you judging via your individual comment?

    The Christian kids, teenagers, or Millinials?

    The Christian parent's, or parent, foster parent, or step parents? 

    Or maybe the Christian minister, or preacher, or maybe the parishioners themselves? 

    Where does your individual judgement towards them reside? 

    "My reply ......Ahhh right , so they’re not defending them so they agree they’re immoral......excellent."

    And again, where is your evidence, that Christians are defending the Bible, in the way that the above question, is depicting them?  

    And here's your disrespect of it:

    "I haven’t a clue what you’re bleating about , when you sober up get back to me."

  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You ask ....And again, where is your evidence, that Christians are defending the Bible

    Reply ......But Christians are defending the Bible several have done so on this debate , you really are drunk if you haven’t realized this , lay of the bootle for a while and actually read the comments this debate where Christians are defending the Bible   


  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    I'm pro religion, and I'm not defending Religion, from the likes of your attitude, to appease your attitude.

    Show me specifically, what profile names have defended Religion in this forum?

    Maybe Joeseph, MayCaesar, or ethang?

    "Reply ......But Christians are defending the Bible several have done so on this debate , you really are drunk if you haven’t realized this , lay of the bootle for a while and actually read the comments this debate where Christians are defending the Bible."

    I've been engaging in this forum for a while now, so why not present evidence from this very forum, to back your claim up?

    Instead of hiding behind your (drunk commentary,) and letting it do, your arguing for you? 


    Zombieguy1987
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say .....I've been engaging in this forum for a while now, so why not present evidence from this very forum, to back your claim up?

    My reply ......It’s in this thread you drunken can you not read?
  • 21CenturyIconoclast21CenturyIconoclast 169 Pts   -  

    "Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?”

    Firstly, pseudo-christians cannot in any way defend their primitive Bronze and Iron Age faith and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath, even though their pagan bible says to defend their disgusting faith.

    In addressing the psychotic mind set of a pseudo-christian regarding their primitive brutal serial killer Jew god named Yahweh/Jesus, subjectively Carl Sagan said it best: “You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep-seated need to believe." -Carl Sagan (1934-1996)


    ZeusAres42DeePlaffelvohfen
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @21CenturyIconoclast

    "Firstly, pseudo-christians cannot in any way defend their primitive Bronze and Iron Age faith and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath, even though their pagan bible says to defend their disgusting faith."

    "In addressing the psychotic mind set of a pseudo-christian regarding their primitive brutal serial killer Jew god named Yahweh/Jesus, subjectively Carl Sagan said it best: “You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep-seated need to believe." -Carl Sagan (1934-1996)"

    So says you, and name dropping Carl Sagan, and using their name, to help you, do your arguing for you? 

    Same words, different debate site.


  • 21CenturyIconoclast21CenturyIconoclast 169 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    Yeah, says I for sure!  For the record, I usually use the pseudo-christians primitive bible to slap them silly, but in this case, Carl did say it best relative to their primitive Bronze and Iron Age beliefs that they have swallowed in the 21st century. I am sure you would have to agree.

    Dee
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited May 2019
    @21CenturyIconoclast

    "Yeah, says I for sure!  For the record, I usually use the pseudo-christians primitive bible to slap them silly, but in this case, Carl did say it best relative to their primitive Bronze and Iron Age beliefs that they have swallowed in the 21st century. I am sure you would have to agree."

    I agree on real world legitimate evidence, being used, to support your claims? 

    Until any anti religious individual, on the internet, or who's popular because of their known anti religious stances, can provide ANY evidence to the public as a whole, that religious individuals have a "psychotic mindset" with some valid proof?

    Then, their opinions, are purely based on their own self opinionated rhetoric? 

  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    Jesus wants you to know that He loves you very much. I love you, as well.
  • IdolRocksIdolRocks 64 Pts   -  
    @Dee Cool!!
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @IdolRocks

    Exactly what is cool?
  • IdolRocksIdolRocks 64 Pts   -  
    @Dee ; I said cool to your comment where you said something like no problem or something like it is cool with what I am doing. I can't remember what you said and I can't find it now. I just wanted to say cool though.  It was something like that, but I can't remember it correctly.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @IdolRocks

    I get you now thanks for clarifying have a great day 
  • IdolRocksIdolRocks 64 Pts   -  
    @Dee No Problem. BTW, I will respond to your Westboro Question. I just want to read the articles, first, that I plan on sending to you.
  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Debate, don't insinuate. Your opinions are not fact or pertinent to our subject.

    >You should debate not insinuate. Your opinions on my facts are not pertinent to our subject

    You have not established any facts . And no one owns facts.

    Untrue. But we are asking for the "according" to YOU. We know what we believe. You seem not to know why the things you think are immoral, are actually immoral.

    >By you asserting “untrue” is a typical bullying response from you

    This is a debate. If you say something untrue, I will call it untrue. Go be triggered on the snowflake board.

    >It’s not according to me I judge your god I do so by his words and  teachings in which he says one thing and does another

    Nonsense. You do not have Christian morality. You use your own, and your coyness here is telling.

    >Nonsense. I don’t need “Christian morality “as  it’s based on the contradictory words of an unproven

    Yes you do. You just said you use it to judge God. I'm still asking for your morality. Again, do you have a morality?

    I am asking for your morality and you are giving me what you think is God's morality.

    >I’m not here to answer questions on my morality as the question is regarding gods morality , you think you know what’s gods morality is and so do

    You are here to answer questions asked of you. You will not choose my questions for me, or decide which of my questions are pertinent. You don't know God's morality, and your inability to tell me what your morality is, is not surprising.

    Do you have a morality?

    >I’ve answered this several 100 times now , try and keep up

    I have not asked you 100 times. But I have seen you dodge 100 times.

    Not our topic.

    >Our topic? Who’s our?

    The people on this thread. Who did you think was “our”?

    Tell me why is slavery, slaughter, and pestilence immoral.

    >But what I think is immaterial on the subject , I’m asking you to justify how your god claims to be all loving god and the source of morality and Jesus talks repeatedly about what is right and wrong, yet god breaks every so called moral ruling put down by himself .

    What you think is what makes your question is irrational. You assume God is Himself under the rules He supplies for us. Why? You just assume. No reasoning, no logic. And then pretend that your assumption is not only right, but cannot be questioned. 

    You judge God as immoral. When I ask you by which standard do you judge God, you first tell me you use his standard. When I say you are not using God's standard, you reply that you don't need God's standard!

    That is irrational. If you are using God's standard to judge Him, then you do need His standard. Stop contradicting yourself.

    >I’m judging your god the exact same way Christians judge others by using his moral god as put forward by the teaching of Jesus , you do something similar or is there a different way you deem actions moral or immoral?

    Christians do not judge god using the rules for men. That would be as silly as judging a father by the same rules for his infant daughter.

    I don't care about your bias against God. I am asking why your morality calls, for example, murder immoral.

    >I don’t care about your bias against reason. My morality is immaterial to the question in hand as I’m making my judgement on god using the teachings of Jesus

    You just said you didn't need the morality of God. Here is what you said, “Nonsense. I don’t need “Christian morality” if you are using the “teachings of Jesus” then you do need “Christian morality”

    You are being illogical.

    >You mean you and your sock  puppets? Logic and you are not compatible

    And you again just dodged the question. The “our” referred to theists, . One of the two sides debating the question we are discussing.

    You have no morality and thus cannot judge God.

    >I don’t need morality to judge god, I’ve let Jesus and his words judge him , he’s immoral using his own words from the Bible to condemn him , the same words from the Bible also demonstrates your immorality

    Yet you also claim you don't need Christian morality. That is irrational dee dee. You are in a debate about what is moral, and you are refusing to answer questions about what you think. That is both irrational and dishonest.

    God's morality has nothing to do with my opinion, and He would be moral regardless of my opinion.

    >Gods immorality has nothing to do with your opinion , and he would be immoral regardless of your opinion

    You have established no immorality on God's part. That is what you idiots just cannot understand. No one is immoral because you say so, or because they do not follow your subjective opinion.

    But unlike you, I can answer the question why murder is immoral.

    >But the debate is not about my moral code but gods or lack off , your constant diversionary tactics are merely your attempt to avoid defeat .......again

    It is your subjective code that judges God as immoral. The debate is about where you get the moral authority to judge God. You want your morality to be authoritative from the get go, and we accepting your assumption of  God's “immorality” without question. That will not happen.

    >So can I but unlike you I’ve answered the question over a 100 times you still refuse to do so and I wager will not do anytime in the future 

    If you could answer, you would. There is an entire thread of you dodging the question until Aaron popped your balloon. You think morality is your personal opinion. It isn't.

    I need no defense. Just as when some Muslim tells me that American girls are whores because they go uncovered. It is not morality, it is just his opinion.

    >Yes it’s his opinion, just as when a Christian states abortion is a sin it’s not morality , it’s their opinion

    Illogical. The Christian is using a morality that preceded him, that is explicitly expressed in the bible. You disagree, fine, but it is not his subjective opinion.

    Just as your claim that God is immoral is just your subjective opinion. It can be dismissed offhand.

    Just as you claim god is moral is just your subjective opinion. It can be dismissed offhand.

    Now you get it! Then we can end this debate and dismiss the OP's question.

    “Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?”

    No immorality of the Christian God has been established. Question dismissed off hand.

    You don't want to debate whether God is moral or not, you want us to begin as if your inane opinion is already fact, because you cannot convict God using reason.

    >I’ve destroyed you again in debate your pathetic “red herring “ , insult and illogical rants prove how upset you are

    If “destroying” me is you running away from points you can't address, then yes, you have “destroyed” me.

    You are unable to debate where we start of neutral and the guilt or innocence of God is reasoned out. You simply want the theist to begin by “defending the immorality of the Christian God” as if God's immorality is already a  fact. It isn't. That is why you run when the silly assumption in the question is challenged.

    You cannot convict because your morality carries no weight, no authority. If you were using God's morality, you would not have to dance around questions.

    >But I’ve used the words and teachings from your sacred book to convict him ......surely you really mean gods immorality?

    You have not. That is why you don't want to debate it. You want us to pretend it has already been established. It hasn't. And you still have the contradiction of claiming you don't need Christian morality but still needing it to condemn God.

    >How do you know god is moral?

    I have not claimed God is moral. The OP has claimed God is immoral. I am saying that claim is irrational.

    I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which rant against God.

    Yes I’m embarrassed for you watching you struggle in an attempt to  look the big “hard man“, why not try debating?

    I'm trying, you're running. And I still don't care how embarrassed you get.

    You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you will play obtuse with questions.

    >My morality is not the debate topic Doofus it’s gods morality is on trial

    You're the one trying to prosecute God. In debate we ask and answer questions. Your fear at being questioned is telling. And since God is not here, you will answer questions, or we can both go home. Again, the OP's question can be dismissed.

    I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of God. You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net.

    >Translation......You’re beaten yet again

    Lol. Do you crown yourself too? When you can debate where you aren't afraid to answer questions, let me know.
    Sand
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5



    You say ......You have not established any facts . And no one owns facts.

    My reply .....I certainly have . One does not need “ownership” of a fact you a fact is a fact.


    You say .....This is a debate. If you say something untrue, I will call it untrue. Go be triggered on the snowflake board.

    My reply .....But you cannot tell fact from fiction , so go ahead and be triggered .....again 


    You say ......Nonsense. You do not have Christian morality. You use your own, and your coyness here is telling.

    My reply .....Thankfully I don’t have Christian “morality” which allowed people to own others as property 


    You say .....Yes you do. You just said you use it to judge God. I'm still asking for your morality. Again, do you have a morality?

    My reply .....I don’t , I know my moral standards thank you , I judge your morality using the words and teachings from your deeply immoral contradictory  book of nonsense 


    You say .....You are here to answer questions asked of you. 

    My reply ....I’m not , the question is .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    So why do you?


    You say .....You will not choose my questions for me, or decide which of my questions are pertinent. 

    My reply ....I will and again yes I will as the question is .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    So why do you?


    You say .....You don't know God's morality, and your inability to tell me what your morality is, is not surprising.

    My reply .....I do , it’s stated clearly in the Bible , try read it sometime


    You say ......Do you have a morality?

    My reply .....Well I don’t believe in owning people as property does that count?


    You say ....I have not asked you 100 times. But I have seen you dodge 100 

    times.

    My reply .....You have , I’ve answered over a hundred times your failure to comprehend is your problem not mind 


    You say .......Not our topic.

    My reply ....I know here’s the topic again .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    So why do you?


    You say ......What you think is what makes your question is irrational. You assume God is Himself under the rules He supplies for us. Why? You just assume. No reasoning, no logic. And then pretend that your assumption is not only right, but cannot be questioned. 

    My reply .....My question is perfectly rational and you cannot defend your position which is why you’re doing this crazy dance to avoid admitting the plain truth which is whatever your god says is moral is moral because he says so , if god asked you to slaughter your son you would no doubt obey and do so with relish as it must be moral as god says so as god is not under the rules he supplies us correct?


    You say .....You judge God as immoral. When I ask you by which standard do you judge God, you first tell me you use his standard. When I say you are not using God's standard, you reply that you don't need God's standard! 

    My reply........Yes god is immoral , I use the words of Jesus to condemn god I’m demonstrating to you what a deeply contradictory book of nonsense you adhere to , just as you claim your god is good I can make the equally valid claim your god is evil.


    You say .....That is irrational. If you are using God's standard to judge Him, then you do need His standard. Stop contradicting yourself.

    My reply ......Yes thank you for agreeing  the words of the Bible are indeed contradictory and thus irrational 


    You say......Christians do not judge god using the rules for men. That would be as silly as judging a father by the same rules for his infant daughter.


    My reply ......Which another reason why I’m not a  Christian


    You say .......You just said you didn't need the morality of God. Here is what you said, “Nonsense. I don’t need “Christian morality” if you are using the “teachings of Jesus” then you do need “Christian morality”

    My reply .....I don’t , I’m using the words of Jesus to condemn your god as in where did I claim Jesus was moral?


    You say  .....And you again just dodged the question. The “our” referred to theists, . One of the two sides debating the question we are discussing.

    My reply ......I answered all your questions Doofus. Our as in your little god gang got ya Doofus. 


    You say ......You have no morality and thus cannot judge God.

    My reply .....Oh yes I do and of course I can judge fictional  tyrants 


    You say ......Yet you also claim you don't need Christian morality. That is irrational dee dee. 

    My reply .....It’s not to me but hey your American ancestors used good ole  “Christian”morality to own slaves using gods words to justify it , now that’s ET’s idea of “rational “


    You say .....You are in a debate about what is moral, and you are refusing to answer questions about what you think. That is both irrational and dishonest.

    My reply .....You are in a debate which you think is about me as you’re obsessed  with what I think instead of just addressing the topic , here ya go again .......

    Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

    So why do you ET?



    You say .....You have established no immorality on God's part. That is what you idiots just cannot understand. No one is immoral because you say so, or because they do not follow your subjective opinion.

    My reply .....I have and I keep giving examples you cannot defend as you admit no matter what god does it’s moral as you cannot judge god making you hopeless when it comes to moral questions.


    Feeding babies battery acid is immoral that’s objectively true or maybe you think it’s subjective?


    You say .....But unlike you, I can answer the question why murder is immoral.

    My reply .....I’ve answered this several times you have failed to do so every time 



    You say .....It is your subjective code that judges God as immoral. 

    My reply .....But you stated .......You have no morality and thus cannot judge God......You have no morality and you cannot judge me thank you for your subjective code that judged me 


    You say .....The debate is about where you get the moral authority to judge God. 

    My reply .....It’s not , read the debate title .....again 


    You say .....You want your morality to be authoritative from the get go, and we accepting your assumption of  God's “immorality” without question. That will not happen.

    My reply .....I don’t , my morality works for me and your  god is immoral and evil I couldn’t give a flying f—k whether dummies like you accept it or not 


    You say ......If you could answer, you would. There is an entire thread of you dodging the question until Aaron popped your balloon. 

    My reply .....Stop it ET your deflection is appalling you cannot say why murder is wrong yet you blame me because you cannot answer. Aaron warned you about trolling which is why you left the site but opened 3 alt accounts man up and own it buddy?


    You say .....You think morality is your personal opinion. It isn't.

    My reply ......Demonstrate where I step that in those words?


    You say .....Illogical. The Christian is using a morality that preceded him, that is explicitly expressed in the bible. You disagree, fine, but it is not his subjective opinion.

    My reply ......Illogical . You did say .....Just as when some Muslim tells me that American girls are whores because they go uncovered. It is not morality, it is just his opinion.


    It’s not .....The Muslim  is using a morality that preceded him, that is explicitly expressed in the Quran .You need to work on that logic buddy 


    You say ......Now you get it! Then we can end this debate and dismiss the OP's question.

    Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?”


    No immorality of the Christian God has been established. Question dismissed off hand.


    My reply ......No immorality of the Atheist has been established so why do you keep telling me I’m immoral? Your questions dismissed out of hand.


    Gods immorality has been established by me that works for me

    You say ......You don't want to debate whether God is moral or not, you want us to begin as if your inane opinion is already fact, because you cannot convict God using reason.


    My reply ...... I’ve proved god is immoral you do not know moral from immoral as you admit everything god does is good which is why you just like a Muslim terrorist would slaughter others if he asked as you did admit you cannot judge him using mans laws? Beaten again by your own stupidity 


    You say .....If “destroying” me is you running away from points you can't address, then yes, you have “destroyed” me. 


    My reply .....Ahhh right there that deflection again you still cannot sat why murder is wrong and you still cannot address the debate topic 

    You say.........You are unable to debate where we start of neutral and the guilt or innocence of God is reasoned out. You simply want the theist to begin by “defending the immorality of the Christian God” as if God's immorality is already a  fact. It isn't.


    My reply ......Just as you claim god is good and claim it’s “rational “ I can claim the reverse and claim it rational how do you support the claim god is good?

    Bet you cannot as you think gods morality is a fact , it isn’t. That is why you run when the silly assumption in the question is challenged.


    You say .....You cannot convict because your morality carries no weight, no authority. 

    My reply ......Neither can an unproven god convict as it carries no weight no authority 


    You say ......if you were using God's morality, you would not have to dance around questions.

    My reply ......You’re the one dancing prove there’s a god? 


    You say .....You have not. 

    My reply .....I have 


    You say .....That is why you don't want to debate it. 

    My reply .....Yet here I am 


    You say .....You want us to pretend it has already been established. It hasn't. 

    My reply ....I don’t want you to pretend anything unless that means continuing to  let on you believe in a god , I’ve established the immorality of your god


    You say .....And you still have the contradiction of claiming you don't need Christian morality but still needing it to condemn God.

    My reply ......I didn’t say Jesus or his words were moral 


    You say ......I have not claimed God is moral. The OP has claimed God is immoral. I am saying that claim is irrational.

    My reply .....You don’t know as you admit whether god is moral or immoral excellent 


    You say .....I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which rant against God.

    My reply ......I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which to rant against Atheists 


    You say ......You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you will play obtuse with questions.

    My reply ......You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you


    You say  .....You're the one trying to prosecute God. In debate we ask and answer questions. Your fear at being questioned is telling. 

    My reply .....Prosecute ? You’re the one trying to defend god  In debate we ask and answer questions. Your fear at being questioned is telling. 


    You say ......And since God is not here, you will answer questions, or we can both go home. Again, the OP's question can be dismissed.

    My reply ... , the question is .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    Your attempts to deflect are telling , so any answer yet Doofus?

    You say ......I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of God. You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net.


    My reply .....

     ......I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of Atheists You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net 

    You say .....When you can debate where you aren't afraid to answer questions, let me know.

    My reply .....

    When you can answer why is murder wrong let me know , when you’re not to sacred maybe you can answer .........Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

    Two questions that have you fleeing for the hills run rabbit,  run rabbit,  run run, run 

  • ethang5ethang5 258 Pts   -   edited June 2019
    You have not established any facts . And no one owns facts.

    >I certainly have . One does not need “ownership” of a fact you a fact is a fact.

    You said “my facts”. You have not established any facts. And you do need facts. They just will not be owned by you.

    This is a debate. If you say something untrue, I will call it untrue. Go be triggered on the snowflake board.

    >But you cannot tell fact from fiction , so go ahead and be triggered .....again

    Lol. OK . But calling your silliness "untrue" in a debate is seen as bullying only to a snowflake. My posts are reality, not "safe places".

    Nonsense. You do not have Christian morality. You use your own, and your coyness here is telling.

    >Thankfully I don’t have Christian “morality” which allowed people to own others as property 

    Then my point stands. You do not have Christian morality. Thanks for the concession.

    Again, do you have a morality?

    >I don’t, I know my moral standards thank you , I judge your morality using the words and teachings from your deeply immoral contradictory  book of nonsense

    Untrue. You do not have Christian morality. You just said you didn't. Try not to contradict yourself. You claim to know fact from fiction remember?

    You are here to answer questions asked of you.

    >I’m not,…..

    Then you are an to be on a debate site. But I know how to deal with arrogant morons like you.

    >the question is .....

    If you aren't here to answer questions, you aren't here to get your questions answered either.

    You will not choose my questions for me, or decide which of my questions are pertinent.

    >I will and again yes I will…..

    What you will is learn that you aren't boss. If you do not answer questions, you do not get yours answered. This is a debate site, not an interrogation center.

    You don't know God's morality, and your inability to tell me what your morality is, is not surprising.

    >I do, it’s stated clearly in the Bible, try read it sometime

    You don’t. Know. Your comments here show that you don't.

    Do you have a morality?

    >Well I don’t believe in owning people as property does that count?

    As you being afraid to answer? Yes. 

    I have not asked you 100 times. But I have seen you dodge 100 times.

    >You have , I’ve answered over a hundred times your failure to comprehend is your problem not mind

    OK . But the previous question is an example. The question is not “what do you believe?”, the question is, “do you have a morality?” You dodged. Again.

    Not our topic.

    >I know here’s the topic again .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

    >So why do you?

    When you can show God's immorality, and you can answer some questions yourself, you will be taken seriously.

    What you think is what makes your question irrational. You assume God is Himself under the rules He supplies for us. Why? You just assume. No reasoning, no logic. And then pretend that your assumption is not only right, but cannot be questioned.

    My question is perfectly rational and you cannot defend your position which is why you’re doing this crazy dance to avoid admitting the plain truth which is whatever your god says is moral is moral because he says so,

    All I asked was, “You assume God is Himself under the rules He supplies for us. Why?”

    You won't answer. Why won't you? The only one dancing is you. Your question assumes something irrational. My honesty requires me to tell you.

    >if god asked you to slaughter your son you would no doubt obey and do so with relish as it must be moral as god says so as god is not under the rules he supplies us correct?

    Calm down loony. I don’t know what you call that thing above, but it isn't English. Ever heard of punctuation? And let me remind you again. If you aren't here to answer questions, no one is here to answer yours either.

    You judge God as immoral. When I ask you by which standard do you judge God, you first tell me you use his standard. When I say you are not using God's standard, you reply that you don't need God's standard!

    >Yes god is immoral , I use the words of Jesus to condemn god

    I'm not asking you if God is immoral. You are answering questions I have not asked and refusing to answer questions I am asking. How deceitful are you?

    >I’m demonstrating to you what a deeply contradictory book of nonsense you adhere to,

    OK, thanks for the demonstration. Now address your contradiction. When I ask you by which standard do you judge God, you first tell me you use his standard. When I say you are not using God's standard, you reply that you don't need God's standard!

    Can you explain that without a silly demonstration?

    >just as you claim your god is good I can make the equally valid claim your god is evil.

    OK, so I've asked you on what moral code do you base your claim. You first say the Christian code, then say you don't use the Christian code. It cannot be both. I don't care what claim you make, but it must be rational.

    That is irrational. If you are using God's standard to judge Him, then you do need His standard. Stop contradicting yourself.

    >Yes thank you for agreeing  the words of the Bible are indeed contradictory and thus irrational

    We aren't talking about the words in the bible homer. You are claiming not to need what you also claim you are using. You are so caught up in your hate of God, you can't see your irrationality. It cannot be both. Stop contradicting yourself after your contradiction has been pointed out to you.

    Christians do not judge god using the rules for men. That would be as silly as judging a father by the same rules for his infant daughter.

    >Which another reason why I’m not a  Christian

    You aren’t logical either. But let’s hope you never have children.

    You just said you didn't need the morality of God. Here is what you said, “Nonsense. I don’t need “Christian morality” if you are using the “teachings of Jesus” then you do need “Christian morality”

    >I don’t , I’m using the words of Jesus to condemn your god as in where did I claim Jesus was moral?

    I'm talking about what you are doing. You claim that you are using the “teachings of Jesus” and you are also claiming you don't need “Christian morality". That is a contradiction.

    If you are “using the words of Jesus to condemn [my] god” then it is not true that you don't need Christian morality. Either you do need Christian morality, or you aren't using the words of Jesus. It cannot be both.

    And you again just dodged the question. The “our” referred to theists, . One of the two sides debating the question we are discussing.

    >I answered all your questions Doofus. Our as in your little god gang got ya Doofus.

    Don't be . You said you were not here to answer questions. Stop contradicting yourself.

    You have no morality and thus cannot judge God.

    >Oh yes I do… 

    Until you answer my question about what your morality is (not what you believe about slavery) I will conclude you do not have a morality.

    >…and of course I can judge fictional tyrants

    Then I have no issue with you. My God is neither fictional nor a tyrant.

    Yet you also claim you don't need Christian morality. That is irrational dee dee.
     
    >It’s not to me but hey your American ancestors used good ole  “Christian”morality to own slaves using gods words to justify it, now that’s ET’s idea of “rational “

    I'm not talking to American ancestors. I'm talking to you. Claiming not to need what you also claim you are using, is irrational. Stop contradicting yourself.

    You are in a debate about what is moral, and you are refusing to answer questions about what you think. That is both irrational and dishonest.

    >You are in a debate which you think is about me…

    I know the debate is not about you . But it is you I am debating.

    >....as you’re obsessed  with what I think instead of just addressing the topic,…

    I have addressed the topic. You keep running. If you don't need to say anything, then this is not a discussion, it is an interview. Go interview someone who thinks you are some sort of boss. Here with me, it will be a discussion, or I just toss you. Discussions have both people asking and answering questions.

    >here ya go again .....
    Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?
    So why do you ET?

    When you can show God's immorality instead of just expecting me to accept your unsupported assumption, I will consider your question. Till then, your question will be treated like that old clunker, “have you stopped beating your wife?”

    First show I have a wife moron, then I'll consider your question.

    You have established no immorality on God's part. That is what you idiots just cannot understand. No one is immoral because you say so, or because they do not follow your subjective opinion.

    >I have and I keep giving examples you cannot defend….

    I do not need any defense against examples you dolt. I'm asking you what moral code do you use to call God immoral.

    >..as you admit no matter what god does it’s moral as you cannot judge god making you hopeless when it comes to moral questions.

    I admitted no such thing .

    >Feeding babies battery acid is immoral that’s objectively true or maybe you think it’s subjective?

    Why is it immoral? This is like when your teacher asks you, “why does 2+3=5?" It's not that the teacher disagrees , it's to see if your process at arriving at the answer “5” is rational. So, why do you think it is immoral?

    But unlike you, I can answer the question why murder is immoral.

    >I’ve answered this several times you have failed to do so every time 

    So you keep lying. I have an entire thread of you dodging the question till Aaron cut you off.

    It is your subjective code that judges God as immoral.

    >But you stated .......You have no morality and thus cannot judge God

    This is true.

    >......You have no morality and you cannot judge me thank you for your subjective code that judged me

    I do have a morality, thus I can judge you. Your judgement of God is subjective. If you say mine is too, then my point is proven, the OP's question can be dismissed off hand as subjective opinion.

    The debate is about where you get the moral authority to judge God.

    >It’s not , read the debate title .....again 

    I've read it. You keep dodging the question put to it. “By what moral code do you judge God as immoral?” You want us to stupidly accept the unsupported assumption in the question. We won't.

    You want your morality to be authoritative from the get go, and we accepting your assumption of  God's “immorality” without question. That will not happen.

    >I don’t , my morality works for me….

    It doesn't work for anyone else. Especially not God.

    >…and your  god is immoral and evil I couldn’t give a flying f—k whether dummies like you accept it or not

    Thank you for demonstrating my point. You have a subjective code you expect to force on everyone else as if it is authoritative. You do not want logic, you do not want reason, you do not want debate.

    So then, why are you here on a debate site?

    I will tell you. You are a confused, angry, little  anti-theist looking for a forum to rant against God.

    That is all you've done do far. I've tried to engage you on ideas and all you want to do is take illogical childish potshots at God.

    If you could answer, you would. There is an entire thread of you dodging the question until Aaron popped your balloon.

    >Stop it ET your deflection is appalling you cannot say why murder is wrong yet you blame me because you cannot answer

    I asked you several times. You stupidly replied with circular illogic.

    >Aaron warned you about trolling which is why you left the site but opened 3 alt accounts man up and own it buddy?

    He will soon warn you again. Look at the thread. You were repeating my posts as yours, making fake quotes, and ranting. Suddenly you stopped. I continued. Who was warned?

    Someone noticed both you and Joseph use the same silly “You say, / My reply” and asked you if you were Joseph. I then noticed both you and Joseph had the same computer glitch that put huge empty spaces in your posts. You and Joseph are never online at the same time.

    Both of you sound exactly alike. Misspell alike, use the same no punctuation sentence structure, and are mirror images of each other in your anti-theistic worldview.

    I told you I knew Joseph was your sock puppet. So now, as trolls like you always do, it stung and you want to turn it on me.

    I told you I was different. I don't care. I can beat you without lying, dodging questions, or playing obtuse. The Gentle Readers aren't .

    You think morality is your personal opinion. It isn't.

    >Demonstrate where I step that in those words?

    I said you “think”, not you said. Tell us the difference between your personal opinion and morality. I bet you cannot. You will dodge and run again.

    The Christian is using a morality that preceded him, that is explicitly expressed in the bible. You disagree, fine, but it is not his subjective opinion.

    >Illogical. You did say .....Just as when some Muslim tells me that American girls are whores because they go uncovered. It is not morality, it is just his opinion.

    The Koran does not say American girls are immoral. It says girls dressing immodestly is immoral. It is the Muslim who extends it to judge American girls as dressing immodestly based on his subjective opinion.

    Just as it is you extending the words of Jesus to cover God. The bible doesn't say that. I have been logical.

    >It’s not .....The Muslim  is using a morality that preceded him, that is explicitly expressed in the Quran. You need to work on that logic buddy

    As you can see above, the Muslim is not. His morality does not say American girls are immoral. It says dressing immodestly is immoral. In American culture, American dressing is not immodest. The Muslim is using his subjective islamic culture to judge immodesty, not the Koran.

    That is why Muslims in the west do not dress as Muslims in Islamic countries though they use the same koran.

    One of us needs to work on logic, that's for sure.

    >Now you get it! Then we can end this debate and dismiss the OP's question.

    Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?”

    No immorality of the Christian God has been established. Question dismissed off hand.

    >No immorality of the Atheist has been established so why do you keep telling me I’m immoral?

    I have never called you immoral. I said you had no morality, which is amorality. And I said you did not have the morality authority to judge God.

    Your questions is dismissed out of hand.

    >Gods immorality has been established by me that works for me

    It works for no one else. Rational people know there are no “your” facts and “my” facts. All you are saying is that Gods immorality has been established to your subjective opinion.

    So? I certainly need give no defense to your subjective opinion. Yet, just like a liberal, you keep thinking the theist needs a defense against your subjective opinions you call “examples”

    You don't want to debate whether God is moral or not, you want us to begin as if your inane opinion is already fact, because you cannot convict God using reason.

    >I’ve proved god is immoral…

    God is not proven immoral by you telling us that you wouldn't own slaves. God is not proven immoral because you feel He doesn't follow your subjective tastes.

    >…you do not know moral from immoral as you admit everything god does is good….

    God will not do just anything, so you are being equivocal. I have never admitted that anything God does is moral. You are lying again.

    >...which is why you just like a Muslim terrorist would slaughter others if he asked as you did admit you cannot judge him using mans laws?

    God is a person with a character . God cannot do anything, so saying that “anything God does” is straight away a lie.

    >Beaten again by your own stupidity 

    Lol. OK .

    If “destroying” me is you running away from points you can't address, then yes, you have “destroyed” me.

    >Ahhh right there that deflection again you still cannot sat why murder is wrong and you still cannot address the debate topic

    I can say why murder is wrong. But I am not the one claiming someone is immoral. You are. If you want a discussion on morality, you have to be willing to answer questions too.

    I told you, and it was not a joke, if you aren't answering questions, I don't care what you think and I don't answer your questions, no matter how much you beg.

    You are unable to debate where we start of neutral and the guilt or innocence of God is reasoned out. You simply want the theist to begin by “defending the immorality of the Christian God” as if God's immorality is already a  fact. It isn't.

    >Just as you claim god is good and claim it’s “rational “ I can claim the reverse and claim it rational how do you support the claim god is good?

    I did not make the claim God is good. I did not make this thread. Again, I don't care WHAT you or the OP claims, I only care for WHY you make that claim.

    I have never faulted you for your claim that God is immoral. I just asked you to justify that claim. You unsurprisingly, could not.

    If you also claim it is rational, you have to show how. A person asking you to show how your claim is rational is not attacking you. It is just what is done on debate sites.

    You cannot convict because your morality carries no weight, no authority.

    >Neither can an unproven god convict as it carries no weight no authority 

    OK, then we can dismiss the OP out of hand. I am making no claim except that the OP's claim is irrational. I am not trying to convict anyone. You are contending that God is immoral. I have beaten you to this position 4 times so far.

    if you were using God's morality, you would not have to dance around questions.

    >You’re the one dancing…

    Yet it is you who said you aren't here to answer questions.

    >...prove there’s a god?

    Have you forgotten the thread title so quickly? The OP made the claim, he needs to show that God is immoral. This thread is not about if God exists.

    That is why you don't want to debate it.

    >Yet here I am 

    Telling me you aren't here to answer questions. Do you know of any debate where the debater doesn't have to answer questions put to him by his opponent?

    You want us to pretend it has already been established. It hasn't.

    >I don’t want you to pretend anything…

    And I'm not going to, so we are in agreement. You have established God's immorality only to your own personal opinion. I don't care about your personal opinion.

    And you still have the contradiction of claiming you don't need Christian morality but still needing it to condemn God.

    >I didn’t say Jesus or his words were moral

    I didn't say you did. You are using what you claim not to need. That is a contradiction.

    I have not claimed God is moral. The OP has claimed God is immoral. I am saying that claim is irrational.

    >You don’t know as you admit whether god is moral or immoral excellent 

    I do know, but my claim is not about God, my claim is about the OP's claim. It is illogical.

    I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which rant against God.

    >I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which to rant against Atheists 

    Then I would go to an atheist site you .

    This is the same repetition you did before Aaron shut you down. When you mirror, it has to make sense. Why would a person who wants a soapbox on which to rant against Atheists go to a religion board?

    You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you will play obtuse with questions.

    >You cannot state what you believe,…

    I don't have to . I have made no claim to defend. I did not make this thread. You are the one defending the OP.

    >you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral,

    I can, but defense is for the people supporting the OP. As I said, when you mirror, you still have to make sense.

    You're the one trying to prosecute God. In debate we ask and answer questions. Your fear at being questioned is telling.

    >Prosecute ? You’re the one trying to defend god…

    Against your prosecution, yes.

    >In debate we ask and answer questions. Your fear at being questioned is telling.

    >I am not here to answer questions. – dee dee

    Your fear is showing dee dee. So is your stupidity.

    And since God is not here, you will answer questions, or we can both go home. Again, the OP's question can be dismissed.

    >the question is .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

    Lol, you've remembered the thread title again? MY question is, “On what moral code do you judge God immoral?”

    >Your attempts to deflect are telling , so any answer yet Doofus?

    Stop being an . Questions in a debate are not deflections. As I said, you will answer questions or we can both go home.

    I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of God. You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net.

    >I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of Atheists You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net.

    So you seek us out on religion boards? Lol. OK .

    When you can debate where you aren't afraid to answer questions, let me know.

    >When you can answer why is murder wrong let me know , when you’re not to sacred maybe you can answer .........Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

    >Two questions that have you fleeing for the hills run rabbit,  run rabbit,  run run, run

    Yet you are the one who admitted you won’t answer questions. How are you?

    Who do you think is here only to answer your questions?

    I am not here to answer questions – dee dee

    When you are here to answer questions, yours will get answered. Till then, you will have to do your mirroring on someone else.
    SandDee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @ethang5

    Read this again you Troll and attempt to address what I asked instead of conducting an interrogation all because you think slavery is moral because the Bible says so , you can get your fellow Christians to help you

    You say ......You have not established any facts . And no one owns facts.

    My reply .....I certainly have . One does not need “ownership” of a fact you a fact is a fact.


    You say .....This is a debate. If you say something untrue, I will call it untrue. Go be triggered on the snowflake board.

    My reply .....But you cannot tell fact from fiction , so go ahead and be triggered .....again 


    You say ......Nonsense. You do not have Christian morality. You use your own, and your coyness here is telling.

    My reply .....Thankfully I don’t have Christian “morality” which allowed people to own others as property 


    You say .....Yes you do. You just said you use it to judge God. I'm still asking for your morality. Again, do you have a morality?

    My reply .....I don’t , I know my moral standards thank you , I judge your morality using the words and teachings from your deeply immoral contradictory  book of nonsense 


    You say .....You are here to answer questions asked of you. 

    My reply ....I’m not , the question is .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    So why do you?


    You say .....You will not choose my questions for me, or decide which of my questions are pertinent. 

    My reply ....I will and again yes I will as the question is .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    So why do you?


    You say .....You don't know God's morality, and your inability to tell me what your morality is, is not surprising.

    My reply .....I do , it’s stated clearly in the Bible , try read it sometime


    You say ......Do you have a morality?

    My reply .....Well I don’t believe in owning people as property does that count?


    You say ....I have not asked you 100 times. But I have seen you dodge 100 

    times.

    My reply .....You have , I’ve answered over a hundred times your failure to comprehend is your problem not mind 


    You say .......Not our topic.

    My reply ....I know here’s the topic again .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    So why do you?


    You say ......What you think is what makes your question is irrational. You assume God is Himself under the rules He supplies for us. Why? You just assume. No reasoning, no logic. And then pretend that your assumption is not only right, but cannot be questioned. 

    My reply .....My question is perfectly rational and you cannot defend your position which is why you’re doing this crazy dance to avoid admitting the plain truth which is whatever your god says is moral is moral because he says so , if god asked you to slaughter your son you would no doubt obey and do so with relish as it must be moral as god says so as god is not under the rules he supplies us correct?


    You say .....You judge God as immoral. When I ask you by which standard do you judge God, you first tell me you use his standard. When I say you are not using God's standard, you reply that you don't need God's standard! 

    My reply........Yes god is immoral , I use the words of Jesus to condemn god I’m demonstrating to you what a deeply contradictory book of nonsense you adhere to , just as you claim your god is good I can make the equally valid claim your god is evil.


    You say .....That is irrational. If you are using God's standard to judge Him, then you do need His standard. Stop contradicting yourself.

    My reply ......Yes thank you for agreeing  the words of the Bible are indeed contradictory and thus irrational 


    You say......Christians do not judge god using the rules for men. That would be as silly as judging a father by the same rules for his infant daughter.


    My reply ......Which another reason why I’m not a  Christian


    You say .......You just said you didn't need the morality of God. Here is what you said, “Nonsense. I don’t need “Christian morality” if you are using the “teachings of Jesus” then you do need “Christian morality”

    My reply .....I don’t , I’m using the words of Jesus to condemn your god as in where did I claim Jesus was moral?


    You say  .....And you again just dodged the question. The “our” referred to theists, . One of the two sides debating the question we are discussing.

    My reply ......I answered all your questions Doofus. Our as in your little god gang got ya Doofus. 


    You say ......You have no morality and thus cannot judge God.

    My reply .....Oh yes I do and of course I can judge fictional  tyrants 


    You say ......Yet you also claim you don't need Christian morality. That is irrational dee dee. 

    My reply .....It’s not to me but hey your American ancestors used good ole  “Christian”morality to own slaves using gods words to justify it , now that’s ET’s idea of “rational “


    You say .....You are in a debate about what is moral, and you are refusing to answer questions about what you think. That is both irrational and dishonest.

    My reply .....You are in a debate which you think is about me as you’re obsessed  with what I think instead of just addressing the topic , here ya go again .......

    Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

    So why do you ET?



    You say .....You have established no immorality on God's part. That is what you idiots just cannot understand. No one is immoral because you say so, or because they do not follow your subjective opinion.

    My reply .....I have and I keep giving examples you cannot defend as you admit no matter what god does it’s moral as you cannot judge god making you hopeless when it comes to moral questions.


    Feeding babies battery acid is immoral that’s objectively true or maybe you think it’s subjective?


    You say .....But unlike you, I can answer the question why murder is immoral.

    My reply .....I’ve answered this several times you have failed to do so every time 



    You say .....It is your subjective code that judges God as immoral. 

    My reply .....But you stated .......You have no morality and thus cannot judge God......You have no morality and you cannot judge me thank you for your subjective code that judged me 


    You say .....The debate is about where you get the moral authority to judge God. 

    My reply .....It’s not , read the debate title .....again 


    You say .....You want your morality to be authoritative from the get go, and we accepting your assumption of  God's “immorality” without question. That will not happen.

    My reply .....I don’t , my morality works for me and your  god is immoral and evil I couldn’t give a flying f—k whether dummies like you accept it or not 


    You say ......If you could answer, you would. There is an entire thread of you dodging the question until Aaron popped your balloon. 

    My reply .....Stop it ET your deflection is appalling you cannot say why murder is wrong yet you blame me because you cannot answer. Aaron warned you about trolling which is why you left the site but opened 3 alt accounts man up and own it buddy?


    You say .....You think morality is your personal opinion. It isn't.

    My reply ......Demonstrate where I step that in those words?


    You say .....Illogical. The Christian is using a morality that preceded him, that is explicitly expressed in the bible. You disagree, fine, but it is not his subjective opinion.

    My reply ......Illogical . You did say .....Just as when some Muslim tells me that American girls are whores because they go uncovered. It is not morality, it is just his opinion.


    It’s not .....The Muslim  is using a morality that preceded him, that is explicitly expressed in the Quran .You need to work on that logic buddy 


    You say ......Now you get it! Then we can end this debate and dismiss the OP's question.

    Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?”


    No immorality of the Christian God has been established. Question dismissed off hand.


    My reply ......No immorality of the Atheist has been established so why do you keep telling me I’m immoral? Your questions dismissed out of hand.


    Gods immorality has been established by me that works for me

    You say ......You don't want to debate whether God is moral or not, you want us to begin as if your inane opinion is already fact, because you cannot convict God using reason.


    My reply ...... I’ve proved god is immoral you do not know moral from immoral as you admit everything god does is good which is why you just like a Muslim terrorist would slaughter others if he asked as you did admit you cannot judge him using mans laws? Beaten again by your own stupidity 


    You say .....If “destroying” me is you running away from points you can't address, then yes, you have “destroyed” me. 


    My reply .....Ahhh right there that deflection again you still cannot sat why murder is wrong and you still cannot address the debate topic 

    You say.........You are unable to debate where we start of neutral and the guilt or innocence of God is reasoned out. You simply want the theist to begin by “defending the immorality of the Christian God” as if God's immorality is already a  fact. It isn't.


    My reply ......Just as you claim god is good and claim it’s “rational “ I can claim the reverse and claim it rational how do you support the claim god is good?

    Bet you cannot as you think gods morality is a fact , it isn’t. That is why you run when the silly assumption in the question is challenged.


    You say .....You cannot convict because your morality carries no weight, no authority. 

    My reply ......Neither can an unproven god convict as it carries no weight no authority 


    You say ......if you were using God's morality, you would not have to dance around questions.

    My reply ......You’re the one dancing prove there’s a god? 


    You say .....You have not. 

    My reply .....I have 


    You say .....That is why you don't want to debate it. 

    My reply .....Yet here I am 


    You say .....You want us to pretend it has already been established. It hasn't. 

    My reply ....I don’t want you to pretend anything unless that means continuing to  let on you believe in a god , I’ve established the immorality of your god


    You say .....And you still have the contradiction of claiming you don't need Christian morality but still needing it to condemn God.

    My reply ......I didn’t say Jesus or his words were moral 


    You say ......I have not claimed God is moral. The OP has claimed God is immoral. I am saying that claim is irrational.

    My reply .....You don’t know as you admit whether god is moral or immoral excellent 


    You say .....I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which rant against God.

    My reply ......I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which to rant against Atheists 


    You say ......You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you will play obtuse with questions.

    My reply ......You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you


    You say  .....You're the one trying to prosecute God. In debate we ask and answer questions. Your fear at being questioned is telling. 

    My reply .....Prosecute ? You’re the one trying to defend god  In debate we ask and answer questions. Your fear at being questioned is telling. 


    You say ......And since God is not here, you will answer questions, or we can both go home. Again, the OP's question can be dismissed.

    My reply ... , the question is .....Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?


    Your attempts to deflect are telling , so any answer yet Doofus?

    You say ......I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of God. You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net.


    My reply .....

     ......I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of Atheists You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net 

    You say .....When you can debate where you aren't afraid to answer questions, let me know.

    My reply .....

    When you can answer why is murder wrong let me know , when you’re not to sacred maybe you can answer .........Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

    Two questions that have you fleeing for the hills run rabbit,  run rabbit,  run run, run 

  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  
    Why are you arguing you have no proof.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited June 2019
    @Sand

    You say .......Why are you arguing you have no proof

    My reply ......That the Bible is immoral?    Sure I do and you agreed slavery was immoral or have you changed your mind again?

    Hey , maybe your new “Christian “ butt buddy Ethang will attempt to help you when he gets back from his K K K meeting,  I wouldn’t hold my breath as he’s a bit on the thick side , it’s seems to be a genetic trait with you lot 
    Sand
  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  

    You call names because you have no morals or proof.

  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  

    I am just asking for your proof. You the one throwing out insults, which shows your morals.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    You say .....

    You call names because you have no morals or proof.

    My reply .....Ahhhh still crying are you , you admitted slavery was immoral , you admitted your god was immoral therefore I’m against slavery you admit I’m more moral than your god .........Ouch 

    By the way you accepted my proof regarding slavery or do you want to change your mind and say it’s moral now? It’s ok you’re getting good at lying 
    Sand
  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  

    More insults.....no morals. I only asked for proof.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Sand



    You call names because you have no morals or proof.

    My reply .....Ahhhh still crying are you , you admitted slavery was immoral , you admitted your god was immoral therefore I’m against slavery you admit I’m more moral than your god .........Ouch 

    By the way you accepted my proof regarding slavery or do you want to change your mind and say it’s moral now? It’s ok you’re getting good at lying 
    Sand
  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  

    The only one without proof is you. Take your time I am waiting.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Sand


    You call names because you have no morals or proof.

    My reply .....Ahhhh still crying are you , you admitted slavery was immoral , you admitted your god was immoral therefore I’m against slavery you admit I’m more moral than your god .........Ouch 

    By the way you accepted my proof regarding slavery or do you want to change your mind and say it’s moral now? It’s ok you’re getting good at lying 
  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  
    More insults....and misrepresentation of my statements.
    So I admitted my God was immoral or an assumption on your part.
    I did not admit slavery was immoral, I always have held that modern slavery is immoral.
    Biblical slavery is not immoral.

    You have made very broad statements.
    I asked for your support for your statements, you could not produce them, so I denoted your statements were unfounded and asked is this comparable to lying. You then call me a .

    You are the main person who throws out insults, which gives proof to atheists lacking morals.

  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Sand

    @Sand 


    You say .....More insults....and misrepresentation of my statements. 


    My reply .....I have not insulted you I’ve pointed out you admitted owning people as property is immoral and I have witnesses , so why do you continue to lie?


    Here you go your own words ......


    @PlaffelvohfenAsked you ........will you answer my question? Do you think that owning people as commodities is moral?


    Your reply ......No I do not.


    You agreed that owning people as property was not moral do you want to lie again?


    You say ......So I admitted my God was immoral or an assumption on your part.


    My reply .....No assumption, your words stated that you agree it’s immoral therefore your god is immoral as he gives the law regards slavery 


    You say .....I did not admit slavery was immoral, 

    My reply .....You did your words confirm this 


    You say ......I always have held that modern slavery is immoral.

    Biblical slavery is not immoral. 


    My reply .....You truly are dense you admitted owning people as property is immoral , now it’s not .....Are you on drugs or drunk?

    You say ......You have made very broad statements. 

    I asked for your support for your statements, you could not produce them, so I denoted your statements were unfounded and asked is this comparable to lying. You then call me a . 

    My reply ......I’ve proved you’re a compulsive , don’t blame me your words confirm this 

    You say ......You are the main person who throws out insults, which gives proof to atheists lacking morals.


    My reply ......But I’m not insulting you I’m calling you a I’ve just proved my point 



  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  

    You have no proof.
    I stated that modern slavery is immoral, but Biblical slavery is moral.
    I have not lied in anyway, my points are very clear.
    >>>Owning people is only immoral now because of what has occured with the treatment of people.
    My words!
    Now you have taken my statements out of context, when you clearly left out my previous words.

    Saying I stated that Biblical slavery is not moral, then go ahead, nevertheless that would be a lie.
    Where is my statement that God is immoral? That is a lie.
    >>>My reply ......But I’m not insulting you I’m calling you a I’ve just proved my point 
    That is a lie
    You hurl out insults many times and I am not the only one who has called you on it.
    Calling people , compulsive , idiots, saying they attended KKK meetings, these are insults.


    You have stated that you do not believe the Bible is an accurate textbook.
    You cannot use the information against itself if you do not believe it is accurate. (unless you are only trying to prove fallacies)

    I asked for your proof outside of the Bible or any proof that goes against the Bible's information.

  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited June 2019
    @Sand

    You say .....You have no proof.

    My reply ......I’ve just given proof 


    You say ......I stated that modern slavery is immoral, but Biblical slavery is moral.

    My reply ......Owning people as property was never moral which demonstrates your god is immoral as are you 


    You say .....I have not lied in anyway, my points are very clear.

     My reply ......You did lie 


    You say ......Owning people is only immoral now because of what has occured with the treatment of people. 

    My words!

    Now you have taken my statements out of context, when you clearly left out my previous words.


    My reply ......What does that even mean?


    You say .......Saying I stated that Biblical slavery is not moral, then go ahead, nevertheless that would be a lie.

    My reply ......You said owning people as property was immoral you fool it cannot be both moral and immoral 


    You say ......Where is my statement that God is immoral? That is a lie.

    My reply ....It’s not I proved it 


    You say .....That is a lie 

    My reply .....It’s still not you admitted owning people as property is immoral how can it then be moral?


    You say ......You hurl out insults many times and I am not the only one who has called you on it.

    My reply .....I’ve just proved your a that’s not an insult it’s a fact 


    You say ......Calling people , compulsive , idiots, 

    My reply .....You are pretty you call something moral then immoral and keep changing your mind as you do not understand the terms , you are a also , you denied you said slavery was immoral 


    You say ......saying they attended KKK meetings, these are insults.

    My reply .....Incorrect I never said “they” I said Ethang as he’s a rabid racist so most likely a fan of the K K K , funny how you never call your Christians buddy on all his insults and smears of others 



    You say ......You have stated that you do not believe the Bible is an accurate textbook.

    You cannot use the information against itself if you do not believe it is accurate. (unless you are only trying to prove fallacies)


    My reply ......It’s not it’s inaccurate as I’ve demonstrated, and sure I can use the contradictions in the Bible to prove it’s a book of that’s how I discovered it was a book of  


    You say ......I asked for your proof outside of the Bible or any proof that goes against the Bible's information.


    My reply .....Proof of what exactly?



    Here you go again with your insanity ......I did not admit slavery was immoral........... I always have held that modern slavery is immoral.


    THERE YOU GO AGAIN SAYING SLAVERY IS MORAL BUT ALSO  IMMORAL ......OH DEAR , OH DEAR 

  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  
    I know it is hard to understand.
    Its ok you feel differently.

  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 2668 Pts   -   edited June 2019

    Can you explain why modern slavery is immoral but biblical slavery is not?




  • Can you explain why modern slavery is immoral but biblical slavery is not?



  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  
    Morality (from Latin: moralis, lit. 'manner, character, proper behavior') is the differentiation of intentions, decisions and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper. Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal. - wiki

    During the time it was written, many nations had slaves. Egypt, Israel, Greece, China, Africa, Asia, Korea, Europe, England all had slaves.
    Of all the nations with slaves, Israel was the only nation that we know of that had a standard of principles that stipulated a code of conduct.

    One of these standards was the Golden Rule.
    Matthew 7:12 - "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

    Other laws enforced slaves received:
    Fair treatment.
    Protection from killing.
    Protection from sexual promiscuity.
    Protection from serious injury.
    Release after 6 to 7 years.
    Proper payment during and after release.

    The consequence from violation of those laws was automatic release and possible death to the slave owner.


    Literally thousands of years later, the Civil War was fought where the The Emancipation Proclamation was made. It was not made because slavery was considered immoral. It was made to keep black labor out of the West.

    The key issue was states' rights. The South wanted to assert their authority over the federal government so they could abolish federal laws they didn't support, especially laws interfering with the South's right to keep slaves and take them wherever they wished in particularly the West. The South wished to take slavery into the western territories, while the North was committed to keeping them open to white labor alone. The newly formed Republican party, whose members were strongly opposed to the westward expansion of slavery into new states, was gaining prominence. The election of a Republican, Abraham Lincoln, as President in 1860 sealed the deal. His victory, without a single Southern electoral vote, was a clear signal to the Southern states that they had lost all influence.
    The Emancipation Proclamation, which lead to the 13th amendment, was to free slaves but it ultimate goal was to prevent black labor in the West. By freeing slaves they removed the Southern East power and allowed black people stay in the East.

    Through the course of many lawsuits, it was determined that the treatment of people (particularly black people) was immoral. Black people were treated harshly, unfair, beaten, killed, raped, etc.

    People reasoned how the slavery was immoral because how they treated slaves.
    So yes slavery is immoral because of the treatment.
    We know this as a fact. Because slavery still exists in the USA today.
    Look at the 13th amendment. Which provided "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

    The ownership of people was not the criteria for slavery being abolished. When you are incarcerated you are owned by the government, technically you are a slave. If slavery is immoral for ownership alone, that would mean that everyone in the USA is immoral.

    So slavery was not immoral for people during the Bible times because the treatment (standard of principles was enforced that stipulated a code of conduct) was good. Nevertheless, because the USA treatment changed (no principals and no code of conduct) slavery became immoral.

  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @Sand

    You say ......I know it is hard to understand.

    My reply ......Yes it is for me how you think buying and selling humans like animals was moral in biblical times ......

    The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


    You say ......Its ok you feel differently. 

    My reply ....Yes I don’t agree with selling my daughters under any circumstances yet you do as it was done in biblical times ......

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)



    I also feel differently to Christians like you  who think beating people is fine  because you own them ......

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.  If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

    But it’s not all bad as you and fellow Christians call me immoral for criticising biblical slavery as yous think it was wonderfully moral to own people as property in biblical times as you admitted right?


  • Sand said:
    Morality (from Latin: moralis, lit. 'manner, character, proper behavior') is the differentiation of intentions, decisions and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper. Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal. - wiki

    During the time it was written, many nations had slaves. Egypt, Israel, Greece, China, Africa, Asia, Korea, Europe, England all had slaves.
    Of all the nations with slaves, Israel was the only nation that we know of that had a standard of principles that stipulated a code of conduct.

    One of these standards was the Golden Rule.
    Matthew 7:12 - "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

    Other laws enforced slaves received:
    Fair treatment.
    Protection from killing.
    Protection from sexual promiscuity.
    Protection from serious injury.
    Release after 6 to 7 years.
    Proper payment during and after release.

    The consequence from violation of those laws was automatic release and possible death to the slave owner.


    Literally thousands of years later, the Civil War was fought where the The Emancipation Proclamation was made. It was not made because slavery was considered immoral. It was made to keep black labor out of the West.

    The key issue was states' rights. The South wanted to assert their authority over the federal government so they could abolish federal laws they didn't support, especially laws interfering with the South's right to keep slaves and take them wherever they wished in particularly the West. The South wished to take slavery into the western territories, while the North was committed to keeping them open to white labor alone. The newly formed Republican party, whose members were strongly opposed to the westward expansion of slavery into new states, was gaining prominence. The election of a Republican, Abraham Lincoln, as President in 1860 sealed the deal. His victory, without a single Southern electoral vote, was a clear signal to the Southern states that they had lost all influence.
    The Emancipation Proclamation, which lead to the 13th amendment, was to free slaves but it ultimate goal was to prevent black labor in the West. By freeing slaves they removed the Southern East power and allowed black people stay in the East.

    Through the course of many lawsuits, it was determined that the treatment of people (particularly black people) was immoral. Black people were treated harshly, unfair, beaten, killed, raped, etc.

    People reasoned how the slavery was immoral because how they treated slaves.
    So yes slavery is immoral because of the treatment.
    We know this as a fact. Because slavery still exists in the USA today.
    Look at the 13th amendment. Which provided "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

    The ownership of people was not the criteria for slavery being abolished. When you are incarcerated you are owned by the government, technically you are a slave. If slavery is immoral for ownership alone, that would mean that everyone in the USA is immoral.

    So slavery was not immoral for people during the Bible times because the treatment (standard of principles was enforced that stipulated a code of conduct) was good. Nevertheless, because the USA treatment changed (no principals and no code of conduct) slavery became immoral.


    Okay, so here are some of the implicit as well as explicit points you are making:

    1. Biblical slavery was different than the slavery experienced in the USA.
    2. Because of the differences in the treatment of slaves in Biblical times was different than more recent times of slavery such as in the USA means that Biblical slavery is moral.
    3. Slavery only became illegal in the USA because of the way the slaves were treated.
    4. Imprisonment for crimes in the USA equates to slavery.


    Now, here my explicit points in response:
    1. Slavery is by definition the act of keeping someone as property against their will and the use of them to work for you without remuneration or appreciation. And by this definition, this is exactly what happened both in the USA and biblical times, and all other countries that kept slaves for that matter. It was then later reasoned that slavery was an unjust act and there was/is no reasonable justification for it.
    2. Harsh treatment existed in both US times and biblical times. Besides, this still doesn't change what slavery is.
    3. While harsh treatment might have played a role, I'm pretty sure that slavery became illegal based on that it was reasoned that it is unjust to keep other people as property against their will and to treat them however they wished without remuneration as well as appreciation.
    4. Imprisonment for crimes so as to ensure the safety of the public ( a greater good) is no justification for slavery that happened in biblical times or that in any other country, nor is it technically slavery by definition.    

    By your own logic, you could conclude that children are slaves to their school teachers.

    Sand



  • SandSand 307 Pts   -  
    Excellent Reasoning.

    #1 That is the definition of slavery. Dictionaries was made in 1500s, during the civil rights movement. It is understandable why that is the definition now.

    I agree slaves in the Bible’s times was keeping someone as property, but was it against their will?

    According to the Bible, it was not, people had to choose to enslave themselves.

    Was it without remuneration or appreciation?

    According to the Bible, it was not, slaves were paid, during and after.

    This is where I ask for evidence that Biblical slavery was similar to the slavery in the USA.

    There is no other record that states otherwise. We have to go on the Bible’s information.

    Based on that information slavery was paid. Harsh treatment was released.

     You are saying people were not treated right during Biblical times. We are not saying everything went perfect during that time, people are human. People sneak and do things outside of the Law all the time. Nevertheless, the people is not the issue here. The question is on the Bible. According to the the rules in the Bible it was more than fair. If people followed the guidelines in the Bible, slavery is moral, fair, not harsh, and paid.

     #2 Harsh treatment of slaves could have existed in Israel during Biblical times. Nevertheless, we need proof. It also could not have existed in Israel during the Biblical times. And even if it did that is not what is on trial here. The Bible is on trial here. The Bible did not require people to get slaves. It outlined how the treatment should be, if they acquired slaves, if someone enslaved themselves.

     #3 If that was the case then they would have abolished it well before 1865. If ownership of people was considered immoral why wasn’t it abolished in 1492? Why not in 1776 during the signing of the Declaration of Independence? I got that information about 1865 from Wikipedia, main reason slavery was abolished was to prevent Black people from being labors in the West.

     #4 That information about slavery and incarceration was the information in the Amendment. I was not comparing it. It is in the Amendment. The people who abolished slavery compared it. There was justification in the Bible times. The Bible says if someone becomes so poor that they enslave themselves. It was like a job.

     

    Look at the question?

    >>>Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?  

    So this question is saying the Bible depicts God as immoral.

    That is an attack on the Bible. Not the people. I am not defending the people, I don’t know if they followed or not, I need proof. What I am doing is defending the Bible.

    The Bible did not depict God as immoral, because it required good treatment to slaves.

    That’s why I say what the Bible says.


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