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Term Artificial Intelligence is derogatory and inappropriate

Debate Information

there are a few issues with calling AI as Artificial Intelligence.
1) as it improves, who is to make a decision what is Artificial vs Real Intelligence 
2) who is to say that human intelligence is not "Artificial"
3) At some point in the future where cognitive technology and AI capability exceeds our own, would AI-based creatures find it a derogatory term
melefSilverishGoldNovajoecavalrynorthsouthkoreaWhyTrump
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    17 votes
    1. Agree
      35.29%
    2. Disagree
      64.71%
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Persuaded Argument

  • AlwaysCorrectAlwaysCorrect 279 Pts   -  
    @inc4t

    Are you using the same definition of "artificial" as the rest of us?

    Artificial means "made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally". You don't stumble around in the woods and come across a naturally occurring artificial intelligence, by the basic definition of what words mean an AI is an artificial intelligence rather than a natural one. Even if tomorrow someone invented an AI that was twice as brilliant as humans in every way, it would still be artificial. however please note that "artificial" =/= "bad".
    inc4tagsrCoveny1Hacker0JacobHawkinsPowerPikachu21



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  • RollTide420RollTide420 73 Pts   -  
    I'll buy the idea that artificial intelligence is anything close to human intelligence the day I get mad a person about how hard is to talk to a computer these days and not vice versa. Or when engineers no longer have to be able to solve equations that are done by computer. Or when computers build themselves WITHOUT being programmed to do so by humans. Or when a computer can without help from a human make its own intelligent arguments in favor of an idea. Until then human intelligence is not only superior to artificial intelligence, but artificial intelligence is 100% subservient to human intelligence, as all AI is restricted to what it was programmed to do by humans.
    melefjoecavalryEvidenceErfisflat
  • melefmelef 69 Pts   -  
    @RollTide420 made a great argument. Human intelligence is much greater than AI due to the creation status and common sense abilites of the human brain, not a mother board.
  • RollTide420RollTide420 73 Pts   -  
    Computers have access to a much larger database of information than humans, and they can process information quicker, yet humans still make better decisions. Artificial Intelligence is a misnomer, as it is not Intelligence at all but instead information storage and processing. Watch IRobot for a good story that demonstrates the difference between thinking and simply processing and calculating information. Its fictions but it does offer insight into the moral implications of AI (one of the robots has true intelligence but no such example can be shown in the real world). In the real world today they have computers than can choose the statistically optimal outcome for a situation but they are limited the situations and options that were programmed into them. Also, there is more to good decision making than the statistically optimal outcome when humans are involved (For example in IRobot when the robot rescues Will Smith instead of a little girl due to his higher probability of survival (45% percent for him, 11% for her) when he insisted the robot save the girl. He claims "a human would've known the difference," and he's right). AI only seems intelligent because it is programmed to. It has decision making capacity that impresses us, but its adaptability to unfamiliar environments is quite lacking.
    Evidence
  • inc4tinc4t 186 Pts   -  
    @RollTide420, while good points, the line between humans and AI is getting much closer. Over time it will switch places and than artificial will still be artificial, but also it will mean superior in many ways.  
    Evidence
  • RollTide420RollTide420 73 Pts   -  
    @inc4t, actually the line between AI and humans hasn't even started to break. People are merely confusing information storage and processing for true intelligence. While AI is being created with broader and broader ranges of situations and options, there is no indication whatsoever of AI being able to independently adapt to situations which are entirely foreign to its programming like a human can. With all the AI technology we haven't gotten even the first hints of things like computer generated essays or jokes or other signs of originality which would indicate true intelligence. Humans have a much larger information base and ability to calculate than animals so people mistakenly think that AI developing these traits is a sign that AI is becoming more like humans, but in reality these features are quite superficial. The features that really make humans intelligent such as humor and contemplation haven't even been touched on in the AI world.
    Erfisflat
  • inc4tinc4t 186 Pts   -  
    @RollTide420, most of trading already happens algorithmically and people know how it was constructed, but cannot follow how exactly it works.  AI write sports and movies reviews.  We can debate the current line between humans and AI, but that's largely irrelevant. What is relevant is progress of improvement.  5-10-20 years from now that line will either be very near or will be crossed.
  • RollTide420RollTide420 73 Pts   -  
    @inc4t Reviews written by them are based on algorithms which program in them what features to look for and what words describe those features. And while nobody may be able to follow it all, there's someone who knows every feature as it had to be programmed. And how is the line irrelevant? Its the most relevant feature. If the progress being made isn't going in the direction of breaking that line, then AI isn't headed towards developing personhood. And my point is that we are not headed even in the direction of breaking that line. No progress has been made into independent adaptation, or true decision making, as opposed to pre-programmed algorithmic decision making. It very important to pinpoint the line between humans and AI because it must be crossed in order for AI to have any kind of a true personality. Just because tons of progress is being made in the ability of AI to store and process information, doesn't mean that its making progress towards developing sentience in any form. Pre-programmed reactions are becoming so widely developed that it creates an illusion of true intelligence, but actual true intelligence, which is defined by the ability to independently adapt to and process entirely unfamiliar situation (even if it does take some time) and independently make a decision. Its not just that we won't get there, were not even heading there. We'e just ramping up computer processing up to the point it mimics intelligence in the same way that a camouflaged animal mimics its background. You can tell them apart, but you have to looking for the right features.
    inc4t
  • inc4tinc4t 186 Pts   -  
    @RollTide420, sorry, still disagree.  Our brain is constructed with high processing power, and that is what diffirentiates us from current machines. As processing power improvements follow moore law, in about 30-50 years we may readh a point of singularity where computers have more processing power than human brain.  Once we reach that crucial point, it will be crossed further in a few years.  
    The AI and cognitive computing programs dont actually layout speciifcs how program figures out what to do, but leaves it up to the program to self learn.  The term "artificial" seems obvious right now as inferior to humans, but it won't stay that way.  
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1823 Pts   -  
    Regardless of computing power, machines will always have their origins in the humans that made them.  For that fact alone, artificial intelligence will always be artificial.  The only thing we need to worry about is if machines actually care whether or no the term is derogatory.
    joecavalry
  • THEDENIERTHEDENIER 78 Pts   -  
    I agree with CYDdharta. In terms of defining what is AI and what is not, I would like to refer all of you to this link: http://bigthink.com/endless-innovation/artificial-intelligence-from-turing-test-to-tokyo-test Also, I would be wary of anthropomorphism. Even years after the singularity, it is very unlikely that AI will develop e'motions. Intelligence beyond that of any human does not imply emotion, therefor, I think that machines probably will not find the term "AI" derogatory in the foreseeable future.
  • RollTide420RollTide420 73 Pts   -  
    @inc4t if high processing and computing were what differentiated us, then AI has already surpassed us, by a long shot. Yet in reality we tend to still make decisions better than them. The difference lies in true intelligence, which enables us to open our minds to entirely foreign concepts. I never said computers couldn't improve within the confines of the options programmed into them, but that they were incapable of developing entire new options.You say that processing improvements follow Moore's law, yet most experts believe that Moore's law will probably only continue for about 20 more years. Furthermore, Moore's law only gets into the number of transistors, not the function, and we could add a million transistors and still only improve the processing abilities, which can't be your defining feature of humanity as computers already have more processing power. What they lack however, is true intelligence. You could add a million meatball to your tomatoes sauce, but you still don't have spaghetti until you add noodle. Likewise, we could add a million transistors to AI and if they only improve processing and not independent thought, then it isn't true intelligence. Also, any AI which can self-improve, can only do so by eliminating time wasters, they have no ability to add entirely new motions to their programming on their own. They are simply algorithmically program to notice inefficiency and eliminate it. Eliminating bad ideas takes far less independent thought than adding good ones. They can figure out the most effective combination of preprogrammed options better than we can. What they can't do, and haven't even started to do is contribute unique ideas altogether.
  • inc4tinc4t 186 Pts   -  
    @RollTide420 and @CYDdharta
    good point about machines not having feelings to feel it's derogatory.  So it may continue to be called artificial..but artificial will eventually be considered superior and "real" will be considered handicapped 
  • RollTide420RollTide420 73 Pts   -  
    It may very well be that we as a society come to view artificial intelligence as superior and real intelligence as handicapped, but that would be a mistake on our part. But May I emphasize the first half of that sentence and say again that our society could very well make that mistake. However, moral superiority, which is the ability to choose right from wrong and that is too situational based, and every situation is too unique for robots to ever gain this type of comprehension. Furthermore this specific type of requires a level of emotional complexity that is within the realm that we have yet to make any progress in. It is this that sets mankind apart, as we are the only beings known to contemplate who they are and where they stand in the universe and things like that. Meanwhile Robots are like "the square root of pi is 1.772004539 etc." They can figure that out a lot quicker than we can, yet they lack the ability to comprehend the meaning out that in any kind of emotional since, and no evidence exists of progress into that SPECIFIC realm, despite overwhelming progress in processing speed and complexity, that has been made. If processing speed and complexity defined us we'd be beat already, but if we were beat already it wouldn't have taken this long for self driving cars to come out. But again may I emphasize that you are correct in saying that artificial intelligence may soon be CONSIDERED superior by most people, but it will not truly be superior.
    EvidenceErfisflat
  • joecavalryjoecavalry 430 Pts   -  
    Common sense and the ability to interact on an emotional level with others is what differentiates Humans and AI.
    RollTide420EvidenceErfisflat
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Nice one AlwaysCorrect.
    Hadn't thought about it until you made the point.
    Based on the human definition of intelligence, there can be no such thing as artificial intelligence.
    Intelligence is intelligence.
    With regard to your third point. I would suggest that non-organic cognitive mechanisms will probably far too sensible and logical to regard the term A.I. derogatory.
    northsouthkorea
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1201 Pts   -  
    No clue what the point of this debate is... 
    northsouthkoreaWoodenWood
    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • northsouthkoreanorthsouthkorea 221 Pts   -  
    I agree, @Fredsnephew .
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    inc4t said:
    there are a few issues with calling AI as Artificial Intelligence.
    1) as it improves, who is to make a decision what is Artificial vs Real Intelligence 
    2) who is to say that human intelligence is not "Artificial"
    3) At some point in the future where cognitive technology and AI capability exceeds our own, would AI-based creatures find it a derogatory term

    1) Good point, but @RollTide420 got it pegged. Yes, as it improves, the "artificial", .. meaning "programmed" will definitely seem more intelligent than human intelligence, just as I can no longer beat any computer chess game.
    As RollTide420 said, A.I. will remain Artificial, just as those human looking robot faces



    .. will forever stay artificial, even when they will start putting human skin on them. I have worked on, and programmed 5-axis milling machines, and no matter how intelligent that 5-axis CNC was, which can make a complete part with 800 holes through it, except for the side that's clamped down, it has never once attempted to finish that side.
    BUT, of course that too can be programmed into it, but that will also take a lot of Intelligent Design.

    Just recently I heard Michio Kaku mention about some Intelligent Chess-program, that the computer "took back a move", which he claims is showing it's own intelligence. What bull! If the game was programmed for a million possible moves, and "taking back the move" was not part of the program, there is no way the computer would have come up with that option on it's own.

    @Coveny just mentioned to me about the mind/brain that it's not too far in the future when robots could "evolve" to override their "off button".
    Yeah, if it was programmed as an option, sure, they will override it, especially if our Government/NASA programs them for "survival mode", it will become just like in the Terminator movies.

    2) Because our mind is Infinite-Spirit with Free will, , not some fast processor that can bog down. Our mind uses the brain to search for information, but does not depend on it, but can make up, or create the information through reasoning. (Yes, I know we can simulate that too in an A.I. but would have to be updated.) Also, we spirit/mind cannot be effected by a virus, only our brain can, which we allow through indoctrination.

    3) Yes, because history shows that every intention of man's heart is evil, to get away from our Creator, to even hate our Creator, so of course we would eventually program robots with the same wicked intent.
    This was already obvious in the 1927 silent Movie "Metropolis", and now in our children's A.I. gaming, just full of evil, murder, robbing, witchcraft, destruction, total disregard for the other gaming characters. But as we can see from history, Noah's Flood in particular, that God will never let it go that far. The destructive power of our new weapons is a good indication of where we are headed, especially when a human can be killed with something as simple and seemingly harmless as a BB-gun.
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    @Coveny just mentioned to me about the mind/brain that it's not too far in the future when robots could "evolve" to override their "off button".
    I did NOT say that, robots aren't living creates so they don't "evolve".

    Wait what debate have you brought me into NOW!?!? You know for calling me a troll you keep tagging me in debates I'm not a part of... Well I"m here now, lets have a look.

    No it's not a derogatory term, it's a factual statement.

    1) as it improves, who is to make a decision what is Artificial vs Real Intelligence 
    If it's created it's artificial. So this would never be a "decision" for robots. Though I guess it could be a decision for GMO if you wanted to get technical, but in general if something is a biological organism it's not considered artificial because it's altering an existing creature, so at the point that we get technologically advanced enough to create a whole creature without having to use nature creatures for structure you would have to make a decision between artificial and natural (real).

    2) who is to say that human intelligence is not "Artificial"
    We did. Semantics of the word artificial means it's something that's created. The question is like "who's to say blue is not red?". We have agreed to the meaning of words/labels as a society.


    3) At some point in the future where cognitive technology and AI capability exceeds our own, would AI-based creatures find it a derogatory term
    Depends on how they were programed. And as a for the record AI exceeds our cognitive abilities in some areas already. (I know they can quickly do math I can't do just to name something off the top of my head)

    But I don't think the debate is really about the word artificial so much as the tipping point of when AI is considered a person and has "rights" which is a much more interesting topic than this one. When AI is developed enough to have a personality, and emulate sentience I'm sure we'll see robot rights advocates. Personally when I look at the way we treat semi-sentient animals like dolphins and monkeys I tend to think that we well be abusing robots for our personal needs even when they have gotten far up the scale, but that's just me.
    agsrEvidence
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    inc4t said:
    @RollTide420 and @CYDdharta
    good point about machines not having feelings to feel it's derogatory.  So it may continue to be called artificial..but artificial will eventually be considered superior and "real" will be considered handicapped 

    What is 'considered', and what is 'true' can be very different, if not opposite; like marriage used to be 'considered' between a man and a woman,  today marriage can be considered between a man and a sheep.

    Humans are already considered animals, and animals like dolphins are already treated and considered above humans; take Sea World Shamu incidents/deaths for example, no one would dare shoot the fish even though it is obviously killing the human. I'd like to see what would of happen if one of the trainers was killing Shamu in front of hundreds of people?

    How about the classification of humans, "evolving apes", right? In other words, after 4.2 billion years we are not even apes, only evolving, yet the apes are already apes!?!? What would the apes evolve to?


  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @Coveny I did NOT say that, robots aren't living creates so they don't "evolve".

    Oh, sorry. So "how" did you figure they would eventually figure out how to bypass the off button?

    Was the evolving ape/human programmed to invent fire, or the wheel? Or did it "evolve" to do it? You really should read more up on evolution because the Priests of the Evolution Religion do consider things like "robots by passing their off button" as "evolution".

    Coveny - Wait what debate have you brought me into NOW!?!? You know for calling me a troll you keep tagging me in debates I'm not a part of... Well I"m here now, lets have a look.

    I never called you a "troll".
    Sorry if I offended you, so should I stop mentioning you in debates you are not part of? I thought we were a big happy family here?

    Coveny -No it's not a derogatory term, it's a factual statement.
    1) as it improves, who is to make a decision what is Artificial vs Real Intelligence 
    If it's created it's artificial. So this would never be a "decision" for robots. Though I guess it could be a decision for GMO if you wanted to get technical, but in general if something is a biological organism it's not considered artificial because it's altering an existing creature, so at the point that we get technologically advanced enough to create a whole creature without having to use nature creatures for structure you would have to make a decision between artificial and natural (real).

    Lol, .. you see, it all boils down to I.D., not "Evolution" since even as you say "evolution" has to be intelligently designed. So the question is; "can something evolve from nothing", or does everything have to be intelligently designed and created first for it to be able to "evolve" later? This is where the "Evolution story" gets all tangled up in its own deceit, in it's own lies, its own

    Coveny - 2) who is to say that human intelligence is not "Artificial"
    We did. Semantics of the word artificial means it's something that's created. The question is like "who's to say blue is not red?". We have agreed to the meaning of words/labels as a society.

    Who's to say blue is not red? That don't make sense? I can say: "Blue is not red", .. there.

    But human intelligence IS artificial, we the "mind" create intelligence step by step, it takes a lot of work. Our body/brain was created too, which we evolve through "intelligence".
    You know who's "we' sucka? "We" is; us, the mind. (pun intended)

    Coveny - 3) At some point in the future where cognitive technology and AI capability exceeds our own, would AI-based creatures find it a derogatory term
    Depends on how they were programed. And as a for the record AI exceeds our cognitive abilities in some areas already. (I know they can quickly do math I can't do just to name something off the top of my head)

    That doesn't make sense either, because we created A.I. to exceed our own so we wouldn't have to sit there and read an entire library of books to come to a conclusion.
    Google didn't evolve, we "created it", so HOW can Google or any AI ever be "smarter" than us, it is us who is smart in inventing it, no?
    Like asking: "Will an automobile be ever faster than us?"
    Well duh, .. that's why we invented it, right? No Olympic runner has ever complained that an Indianapolis 500 Race Car was 'faster than him'.

    Now we could do things like create an A.I. robot army to keep peace, .. now that would be . Like if they started indiscriminately to kill everyone, it would never mean the AI robots have evolved to thinking on their own. It would mean we didn't program them well enough, not that "they decided man was inferior" or something, like the sci-fi movies like to suggest.

    To me, the subject of A.I. is another absolute proof of The Creator/God, there is no if's or but's about it.

    Coveny - But I don't think the debate is really about the word artificial so much as the tipping point of when AI is considered a person and has "rights" which is a much more interesting topic than this one. When AI is developed enough to have a personality, and emulate sentience I'm sure we'll see robot rights advocates. Personally when I look at the way we treat semi-sentient animals like dolphins and monkeys I tend to think that we well be abusing robots for our personal needs even when they have gotten far up the scale, but that's just me.

    This topic is interesting enough, you are trying to derail it.
    What do you mean by: "developed enough to have a personality"? Do you mean; that it evolves to have a personality of its own, .. or "programmed" to have a personality of its own?
    Is it your "evolution", or is it "I.D."?

    You see, it all leads to Intelligent Design by our Creator, and NOT Evolution.

    Erfisflat
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    @Evidence
    Robots can be programed to figure out things, that programing can figure out things outside of the scope of what the original creators intended. So sure I guess certain types of robots could figure out how to bypass their off button and have the ability to make that happen if they were created that way, and have the ability to do it. 

    Fire and the wheel were invented, they didn’t “evolve”. We didn’t evolve them, that’s not how evolution works. While I personally don’t agree with it people like to apply the process of evolution to things that act similar to evolution. Social evolution or social Darwinism, aren’t really evolution because no one dies, but the process gets “better” and more refined/complex as time goes on similar to evolution. That’s why people are applying it to robots, because they do more than they use to do. But again it’s not evolution in my opinion it’s an upgrade or maybe progress or something.

    Maybe you didn’t call me a troll but you are part of the flat earth three amigos who do. I’m not offended, but yes stop mentioning me in debates I’m not part of unless it’s interesting. This isn’t an interesting topic, but at least it’s not anti-science like the other … three? I’m not in your family, and I’m not your friend.

    Everything boils down to labels otherwise we couldn’t communicate. Semantics is about the labels we use to identify things, and communicate them to others. 

    I never said evolution has to be intelligently designed. Stop with the strawman fallacies. Evolution is the exact opposite of design, and it’s definitely NOT intelligent. However yes it must evolve from something else. This is where the intelligent design gets all tangled up. They have no problem with the most power, most complex thing in all of existence having always been here, but have a problem with dirt having always existed… someone MUST have created dirt in your fantasy, but there's no need for someone to create your god. Um ya sure..

    Even if you do believe that red is blue it doesn’t matter. We have agreed red in red, and blue is blue as a society. These are the words we use, and the meaning they have. Deal with it. We have not created a brain, you don’t know what you are talking about. We can’t create consciousness either, but once we have consciousness we can create things with our bodies that we envision in our brain/mind. What we create is artificial… we don’t create humans, brains, or consciousness so it’s not artificial. Again these are what the words mean.

    You are now using the moving the goal post fallacy. You’ve changed from cognitive abilities to “smart”. These words are not interchangeable. Robots are very dumb for the most part, and any attempt to make them smart is a MASSIVE undertaking. And that's just to get some basic problem solving skills which will only work is specific scenarios. I man , it took decades for robots to be able go up stairs unless they were specifically designed for going up stairs.

    You see everything as an absolute proof of yahweh so duh… but that doesn’t make your fantasies true anymore than the hallucinations from mushrooms.

    I’m not trying to derail it… I responded to it, gave some thoughts and brought up other points to consider, how is that derailing it? It’s not, just another baseless accusation directed toward me as usual.

    For robots to get to the “personality” stage they would need to be programed to be able to go outside their programing. Or to put another way “learn”. There are, and have been many attempts at this, but thus far they suck. The best known on this is Microsoft’s A.I. “Tay which they tried to make capable of learning… as you can see it failed. Learning is more than just repeating what you've seen, and as I've stated robots have a very hard time solving problems like that.

    It all leads to the human race learning and understanding more and more about our existence, and all the sky fairies being resigned to a further receding pocket superstition decade after decade. I don’t think it will be much longer till we remove ourselves from evolution, and we become a race of GMOs. That would be the first intelligent design our race will receive. The topic of designer babies is an interesting one, but no I get the one on robots with hurt feelings. :(
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Coveny said:
    @Evidence

    @Coveny - Robots can be programed to figure out things, that programing can figure out things outside of the scope of what the original creators intended. So sure I guess certain types of robots could figure out how to bypass their off button and have the ability to make that happen if they were created that way, and have the ability to do it.

    A computer chess game will never figure out how to bypass the "off button". But a human mind can even invent the "off button" put it in a robot, and decide how it can be bypassed, including giving a program into the robot with that option, .. see the huge difference?

    Coveny - Fire and the wheel were invented, they didn’t “evolve”. We didn’t evolve them, that’s not how evolution works.

    WRONG, that is exactly how your "evolution" supposedly works, everything, including that the brain evolved the mind, and that the brain is evolving ideas.. dreams, even free will is supposedly the brains delusion: "Man 'thinks' he has free will."
    The ONLY time Pastor Dawkins switches back to actual free will and the mind (reality) is when he starts sounding moronic, .. just like NASA often using Flat Earth observations to explain the Globe Earth.

    Coveny - While I personally don’t agree with it people like to apply the process of evolution to things that act similar to evolution. Social evolution or social Darwinism, aren’t really evolution because no one dies, but the process gets “better” and more refined/complex as time goes on similar to evolution. That’s why people are applying it to robots, because they do more than they use to do. But again it’s not evolution in my opinion it’s an upgrade or maybe progress or something.

    Yes, that was Gods purpose in putting His Spirit/breath into a complex body he created out of quantum dust particles, "social evolution".
    But here is where we see mans desperate intent to take Gods given mind/spirit out of man: to try to keep the evolution-story alive:



    Notice how Jansen mentions the possibility of one day his Strandbeests surviving on their own!? And what, .. eventually evolve a brain, then a mind? LOL!
    "They" really have become aliens to gods creation, using their spirit/mind to oppose the Creator, and deny His creation at ALL costs. And here is the perfect example as to what can happen when man takes God out of the picture, out of his heart, soul and mind, a total abandon of ones humanity.



    Coveny - Maybe you didn’t call me a troll but you are part of the flat earth three amigos who do. I’m not offended, but yes stop mentioning me in debates I’m not part of unless it’s interesting. This isn’t an interesting topic, but at least it’s not anti-science like the other … three? I’m not in your family, and I’m not your friend.

    Sorry, but as long as you are part of Globe-Earth lies, defend NASA, call pseudoscience science, a strong faith in the BB-Evolution religions, I have a right to mention you in topics that relate to these "beliefs", .. this is a "public Debating Forum".
    You can always leave the religion, .. that is always an option, and we will no longer be able to use you as a BB-Evolution, Globetard puppet.

    Coveny - Everything boils down to labels otherwise we couldn’t communicate. Semantics is about the labels we use to identify things, and communicate them to others.

    Yes, labels, like labeling BB-Evolution as science. In every children's TV show, in sitcoms, in movies, in church, .. until we all identify things by this New World Order revised Semantics. Where if they tell us a man is pregnant and having a baby, well gosh darn, .. then that is now part of our semantics, or what you call that again? Oh yeah, .. evolution/science, .. lol.

    Coveny - I never said evolution has to be intelligently designed. Stop with the strawman fallacies. Evolution is the exact opposite of design, and it’s definitely NOT intelligent. However yes it must evolve from something else. This is where the intelligent design gets all tangled up. They have no problem with the most power, most complex thing in all of existence having always been here, but have a problem with dirt having always existed… someone MUST have created dirt in your fantasy, but there's no need for someone to create your god. Um ya sure..

    When you create a robot with A.I. and ask just when will they figure out how to bypass its off button, that is Intelligently designed Evolution.

    Yes, the Evolution religion is "all tangled up", which is what happens when a religion takes over semantics, science, our educational system etc.

    As for the difference between finite (dirt) and Infinite (Mind/Spirit/God), I have explained a hundred times already, but you are very religious and cannot, nor are you allowed by your own religion to think outside the box.

    Coveny - Even if you do believe that red is blue it doesn’t matter. We have agreed red in red, and blue is blue as a society.

    You don't get it, we may all be calling red, "blue", that was my whole point. Like you call BB-Evolution "science", and "They" have brainwashed society to think of the word "science" every time they hear the words "evolution, planets, Big bang story, human animals, space, aliens" etc.

    Coveny - These are the words we use, and the meaning they have. Deal with it.

    We are dealing with it, we are Flat Earthers who believe in I.D. and we will do our darndest to take back science to mean science again! To help people realize the difference between Star Wars Tatooine, and looking at the beautiful stars out at night. That too is only possible once the "Save Our Planet Chem-Trails" poisonous pollution let up a bit.

    Coveny - We have not created a brain, you don’t know what you are talking about. We can’t create consciousness either, but once we have consciousness we can create things with our bodies that we envision in our brain/mind. What we create is artificial… we don’t create humans, brains, or consciousness so it’s not artificial. Again these are what the words mean.

    You know what's sad, .. it's someone out there debating his religious beliefs and don't know much about it!
    http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

    Coveny - You are now using the moving the goal post fallacy. You’ve changed from cognitive abilities to “smart”. These words are not interchangeable. Robots are very dumb for the most part, and any attempt to make them smart is a MASSIVE undertaking. And that's just to get some basic problem solving skills which will only work is specific scenarios. I man , it took decades for robots to be able go up stairs unless they were specifically designed for going up stairs.
    You see everything as an absolute proof of yahweh so duh… but that doesn’t make your fantasies true anymore than the hallucinations from mushrooms.

    Tell me, what do you think is the difference between hallucinations caused by mushroom, and what you get from your senses, eyes, ears, nose, touch etc. ??

    Coveny - I’m not trying to derail it… I responded to it, gave some thoughts and brought up other points to consider, how is that derailing it? It’s not, just another baseless accusation directed toward me as usual.

    I explained, but you keep ignoring it, instead of debating it. Like the word "Infinite", how do you understand it? So far you keep avoiding the topic, thus derailing the thread.

    Coveny - For robots to get to the “personality” stage they would need to be programed to be able to go outside their programing. Or to put another way “learn”. There are, and have been many attempts at this, but thus far they suck. The best known on this is Microsoft’s A.I. “Tay which they tried to make capable of learning… as you can see it failed. Learning is more than just repeating what you've seen, and as I've stated robots have a very hard time solving problems like that.

    Because it is impossible to "program a mind". It can mimic a mind, but never be a mind, because the Mind is God, and He gave of Himself into a body, no one can create God.

    Coveny - It all leads to the human race learning and understanding more and more about our existence, and all the sky fairies being resigned to a further receding pocket superstition decade after decade. I don’t think it will be much longer till we remove ourselves from evolution, and we become a race of GMOs. That would be the first intelligent design our race will receive. The topic of designer babies is an interesting one, but no I get the one on robots with hurt feelings

    Yes, that is why God created us, learning and understanding more and more about our existence, and stepped back to see where each one of us mind/spirits will go with the body we inherited?
    Erfisflat
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    @Evidence I’ve already stated that robots are bad at problem solving and limited by their programs and abilities. So yes, I saw there is a huge difference between a dumb computer and a human…. Right now.

    Ok you are back to acting like you get to shape reality. Saying that inventing the wheel is evolution just shows how scientifically illiterate you are. Evolution is defined as:

    descent with modification from preexisting species :  cumulative inherited change in a population of organisms through time leading to the appearance of new forms :  the process by which new species or populations of living things develop from preexisting forms through successive generations

    We didn’t mate two square wheels and have one of their offspring be a round wheel which then was better at surviving so more round wheels lived than squares leading to the change of the wheel species. Humans evolved intelligence, what that intelligence creates isn’t evolution.

    Oh look a bunch of about how we should listen to yahweh’s word, and not use science or try to understand or create anything that might offend him. Continuing to preach that anti-science while going to the doctor. (this is my shocked face)

    Now goat demon worship does have god in the picture… goat demon god, but this whole thing is a red herring so I’m gonna skip it.

    Yes you have the “right” to mention me. (strawman fallacy) I also have the right to ask you to stop doing it. If you actually considered me a friend (like you keep saying) one would think you’d respect my wishes. Sorta makes you look like a doesn’t it?

    Yes, and you can always stop being like the goat demon worshipers and leave theism. Spoiler alert your god is just as fake as their god in the real world. But the likelihood is very low as you are thoroughly indoctrinated to follow your master.

    Semantics is what we all agree upon. Given that theists are the majority you can’t blame us for the labels, it’s basic logic like this that you have such a hard time grasping. Theists are NOT the victim in this scenario regardless of how many times you say/imply it.

    Robots don’t evolve. So, no a robot bypassing the off button isn’t intelligently designed evolution.

    You don’t understand evolution, and that’s why you see it as “all tangled up”. 



    You or one of your other slaves have given the reason as “outside this universe” like that’s some get out of jail free card that magickly gives an exception to YOUR rule that everything must be created. You have given no reasons what so ever for why dirt couldn’t have always existed, other than saying everything MUST have a beginning. (without explaining why, it must have a beginning)

    Calling red blue. What you don’t “get” is that is how languages work. If we call red blue, then red is how we define blue. It’s all arbitrary, there are no absolutes. (well that we know of)

    Take back science? ROFL You fight against science with both the title of I.D. AND flat earther. You don’t care about science, so don’t pretend you do. You ONLY care about the sky fairy you worship.

    Bluebrain hasn’t created a brain. That is their goal, but they haven’t achieved it. What’s sad is when theist thing that because some is trying to do something they consider it done… maybe that’s why they keep saying they are trying to a better person… but never get any better.

    The difference between hallucinations and reality? One is internal and one is external to consciousness. One can be verified by others. 

    The debate topic is “Term Artificial Intelligence is derogatory and inappropriate” you are off on tangents about religion and other red herrings that have nothing to do with the debate topic. You have hijacked this post to peach about your god. If anyone is derailing the debate, it’s you.

    Again, you think by saying “It’s impossible to program a mind” that makes it so. Like your fantasy creator you think you can shape reality, and therefore want to stop science. Let me assure you it’s possible to program a mind, we just can’t do it yet. Programing personality is difficult an complex, and that’s why no computer has passed the turning test as of yet. But they are getting better and better at it as times goes on.

    If you really believed in the sky fairy and there was this great afterlife you would put your money were your mouth is and die. There are numerous jobs you could take that are very risky, or areas of the world that are the same and then you could be killed and meet your maker… if you actually believe why you are putting out. But you don’t so when your life is on the line you’ll hide in the foxhole, or you’ll go to the doctor. You may “pray” for a bit but when you’re dying and you see it’s not doing anything you’ll go visit the doctor won’t you? Because deep down you don’t believe, you just WANT to believe, and you’re too scared to think this is all you get, and it will be over, and everything you are will be gone and forgotten in 100 years.
    Erfisflat
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @Coveny - I’ve already stated that robots are bad at problem solving and limited by their programs and abilities. So yes, I saw there is a huge difference between a dumb computer and a human…. Right now.

    And I will also agree that this will eventually become "seemingly" minimal, the AI robot will "seem" to be wiser, mor knowledgeable.

    Coveny - Ok you are back to acting like you get to shape reality. Saying that inventing the wheel is evolution just shows how scientifically illiterate you are.

    Did YOUR mind evolve from your brain, or not?
    If it did, then the invention of the wheel is "evolution", .. don't twist and turn your belief, your Pastor Dawkins specifically said in one of his sermons that "man only thinks he has free will, when in fact he's just responding to nature!" Must I teach you about your own religion?

    Coveny - Evolution is defined as:
    descent with modification from preexisting species :  cumulative inherited change in a population of organisms through time leading to the appearance of new forms the process by which new species or populations of living things develop from preexisting forms through successive generations

    Yes, it may "appear" for a deluded religious fanatic mind of a New Form, but the fact is that even after 4.2 Billion years of science fiction observed evolution, the amoeba remain amoeba, lizards remain lizards, apes remain apes, humans remain humans, smaller than the moon objects never orbit any moons, and so on. Skull&bones dug up from graves of humans are also human. Now you do "claim' that some bones of a pig evolved into humans, 'speciatiated' into humans, but that's just stories, typical in religions.

    Coveny - We didn’t mate two square wheels and have one of their offspring be a round wheel which then was better at surviving so more round wheels lived than squares leading to the change of the wheel species. Humans evolved intelligence, what that intelligence creates isn’t evolution.

    Your Pastor Dawkins would angrily disagree. Your Humanus-apus evolved their brain first, then your mind, then out of the dark caves, where they would spend millions of years hiding at night in. Until Grugg's son Umpff wondered out one night and seen his cousin Apes enjoying the beautiful starlit sky and told his family not to be afraid of the dark anymore! Even that took millions of years, because it's all evolution. Evolution evolved your brain, which evolved your mind, which evolved your arms making a wheel, which just sat there for millions of years till evolution evolved what to do with it!

    Coveny - Oh look a bunch of about how we should listen to yahweh’s word, and not use science or try to understand or create anything that might offend him. Continuing to preach that anti-science while going to the doctor. (this is my shocked face)

    LOL, .. God is the greatest scientist, after whom we were created! What are you talking about, .. mixing your theist/atheist beliefs and preaching's with real science?

    Coveny - Now goat demon worship does have god in the picture… goat demon god, but this whole thing is a red herring so I’m gonna skip it.

    Yes, these are your religions god/gods, worshipped by the church of NASA and CERN, called holy-pseudoscience!

    Coveny - Yes you have the “right” to mention me. (strawman fallacy) I also have the right to ask you to stop doing it. If you actually considered me a friend (like you keep saying) one would think you’d respect my wishes. Sorta makes you look like a doesn’t it?

    Fine, will only mention you in debates with you, ok? Sorry if I offended you in any way, you have a right to your religious beliefs as every other religious person.

    Coveny - Yes, and you can always stop being like the goat demon worshipers and leave theism. Spoiler alert your god is just as fake as their god in the real world. But the likelihood is very low as you are thoroughly indoctrinated to follow your master.

    See what I mean? I keep explaining it, but you just can't listen. The reason you ONLY know of created god/gods is because your are a theist/atheist, that's all you know, gods created by religions. Yes, they are fake, made up, so why don't you accept our real Creator, the uncreated Infinite and Eternal One!?

    Coveny - Semantics is what we all agree upon. Given that theists are the majority you can’t blame us for the labels, it’s basic logic like this that you have such a hard time grasping. Theists are NOT the victim in this scenario regardless of how many times you say/imply it.

    I don't have to agree upon your religious version of semantics, like that "the only gods that exist are the created wood stone and plastic ones created by religions". Or that pseudoscience is science, or that evolutions stories are science.

    Coveny - Robots don’t evolve. So, no a robot bypassing the off button isn’t intelligently designed evolution.

    According to evolution-story, everything evolved, nothing is actually created or have any intellig4ence behind it. It is YOU who keeps bringing in "I.D." into your Evolution because even you don't believe in it.
    It's either I.D. by God and the rest by His children created in His own image, or stick to your evolution. Can't have it both ways buddy!

    Coveny - You don’t understand evolution, and that’s why you see it as “all tangled up”.

    I'm the one correcting you on I.D., that it is non-existent in your Evolution Religion, so how is it that I don't understand evolution??

    Coveny - You or one of your other slaves have given the reason as “outside this universe” like that’s some get out of jail free card that magickly gives an exception to YOUR rule that everything must be created. You have given no reasons what so ever for why dirt couldn’t have always existed, other than saying everything MUST have a beginning. (without explaining why, it must have a beginning)

    If it is "finite", like "dirt", it had to be created. All finite is created, all "beings" are created, God is NOT a being, but the "Ground of being", .. He IS Infinite: Infinite, Eternal conscious Mind/Spirit, who cannot be seen because there is nothing "finite/created" of Him. He IS Infinite, .. not "lives in Infinity", but IS Infinite.

    Coveny - Calling red blue. What you don’t “get” is that is how languages work. If we call red blue, then red is how we define blue. It’s all arbitrary, there are no absolutes. (well that we know of)

    See, there you just revealed your closed limited brain and what it has been indoctrinated with. Of Course there is an Absolute, .. there has to be One and Only One, and He is Infinite Creator God "I Am". But you are right, there is no "absolutes", but only One Absolute: Infinite God!

    Coveny- Take back science? ROFL You fight against science with both the title of I.D. AND flat earther. You don’t care about science, so don’t pretend you do. You ONLY care about the sky fairy you worship.

    Oh come, come now my debating buddy, you know you will never achieve destroying science, only falsifying it. Making up Star Trek stories like George Lemaitre, L. Ron Hubbard, Joseph Smith, and Do Applewhite is not science. Get real.

    Coveny - Bluebrain hasn’t created a brain. That is their goal, but they haven’t achieved it.

    Yes they did, in a computer. Only needs a human/mind to indoctrinate it, and run it, just like you and millions, and billions of other human brains have been indoctrinated. There is very little difference between the two, only the human brain is still far, far more complex.

    Coveny - What’s sad is when theist think that because some is trying to do something they consider it done… maybe that’s why they keep saying they are trying to a better person… but never get any better.

    It is a brain, a computer brain, and just like our brain, it can be put in a robot body, and will be very much like us. The only difference is that the robot will need a human/mind to make it real, which will never happen.
    Did you see the movie CHAPPiE? That's the Blue-Brain wish-list, that one day they can take the soul/mind of a human and record it on a disk/memory stick and put it (breath it) into the robot so they could live eternally. Jumping the fence to Eternal Life if you will, but it is totally ridiculous. Memory is NOT the Mind/spirit of man.
    At CERN, they Digitized Morgan Freemans brain, telling him that one day they might be able to put him on disk and revive him in a robot body, .. LOL.



    Coveny - The difference between hallucinations and reality? One is internal and one is external to consciousness. One can be verified by others.

    Ah, .. never mind.

    Coveny - The debate topic is “Term Artificial Intelligence is derogatory and inappropriate” you are off on tangents about religion and other red herrings that have nothing to do with the debate topic. You have hijacked this post to peach about your god. If anyone is derailing the debate, it’s you.



    The whole idea of a Flat Earth is that your BB-Evolution religion is now dead. R.I.P. the only almighty lying demonic power that existed for so long: NASA! Only now, hello to Agenda 21, 2030, the mass exterminations is about to go full force, lead by no other than the Old Jesuits, once mortally wounded, lead by the Jesuit Pope himself.

    Coveny - Again, you think by saying “It’s impossible to program a mind” that makes it so. Like your fantasy creator you think you can shape reality, and therefore want to stop science. Let me assure you it’s possible to program a mind, we just can’t do it yet. Programing personality is difficult an complex, and that’s why no computer has passed the turning test as of yet. But they are getting better and better at it as times goes on.

    You cannot create infinite/mind/spirit, it was given by God, of God and is God placed in a body. We can only create finite things, even God can only create finite things, bodies etc. that's why He calls everything His creation.
    So there is no escape, this body dying has no effect on us the mind/spirit.

    Coveny - If you really believed in the sky fairy and there was this great afterlife you would put your money were your mouth is and die. There are numerous jobs you could take that are very risky, or areas of the world that are the same and then you could be killed and meet your maker… if you actually believe why you are putting out. But you don’t so when your life is on the line you’ll hide in the foxhole, or you’ll go to the doctor. You may “pray” for a bit but when you’re dying and you see it’s not doing anything you’ll go visit the doctor won’t you? Because deep down you don’t believe, you just WANT to believe, and you’re too scared to think this is all you get, and it will be over, and everything you are will be gone and forgotten in 100 years.

    You really don't know me my friend, my whole life, .. from birth till now 61 years later has been, and IS full of Danger.

    Yes, I took "very risky" jobs in Detroit, was a plastic cover for furniture "cutter" when I was 16, and went to places, housing projects on the East side that Negro men that I was training would not dare go to. Remember this was a few years after the 67-68 riots, and by 1972 the hate towards white was about as ugly as it could get.

    Not much changed, my life is always in danger, only this time it's the Germans. I have family and relatives that wish me dead.
    Doctors, nurses, even Dentists have taken their turn trying to kill me, .. yet here I am, still kicking and praising God, hoping to open peoples eyes to the dangers of Religion, especially your Grave digging, Skull&bones worshipping German run seemingly almighty BB-Evolution Religion like NASA, CERN, the UN, the Antarctic treaty, the Chem Trailing, the "You Have Cancer" exterminations where millions of men, women and children are murdered every day, .. slowly, taking up to 6 years to die, .. meanwhile robbing the family of their money as "They" help kill their loved ones, injecting them themselves!
    How can anyone not see this? It's as if people are willingly sacrificing their children to Shiva, the now fully accepted German run CERN/NASA/UN god of destruction, and as you can see in them videos in Switzerland, they don't hide it either!
    If there was ever a crime against humanity, it is NOW!

    Who knows, maybe God has a plan for me, but just like in the Days of Noah, no one seems to be listening to the loud Trumpet, .. rather people go even far as injecting their children to death with the so called "cure for cancer", .. my God, what an awful blindness!
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    @Evidence You know for being accused of “derailing the debate” it sure looks like you wrote a book to me about this debate I’m derailing… but hey actions have no bearing on reality in your fantasy world I guess.

    My mind is my brain, and it didn’t evolve from itself no. Neither did consciousness evolve from the brain/mind. Consciousness is a product of the brain/mind and doesn’t exist without it. My brain/mind is a product of evolution from all my ancestors. Now it sounds like you are trying to say that because by mind/brain is a product of evolution everything that my mind/brain produces is a product of evolution, and this is simply not the case. The word evolution deals with bibliology not technology stop twisting what you don’t understand. Scientific illiteracy is strong with this one. Secondly, I don’t have a religion… because I’m an atheist… stop with the twisting.

    I posted you a video of my favor proof of evolution. Because the lifecycle of bacteria is so fast you can see the bacteria evolve to overcome the antibiotics while you watch. There are thousands of other proofs of evolution but this one is the simplest, you can see the change visually, and if you understand that you can understand how evolution works. Here is a link to that video again.


    First of Dawkins isn’t a pastor. Second off I’m not debating for Dawkins I’m debating for myself. Present your points against what I say and stop with the strawman arguments against me. 

    All gods are just fairies that live in the sky. I stopped believing Santa existed when I was a child, sadly it’s something you seem to have not grown out of. The absurdity of saying an all-knowing being is a scientist just shows you have no clue that science is about the search for knowledge and understanding how things work.

    Still an atheist… still don’t believe/worship any gods.

    Yes if you would stop tagging me that would be ok. Your whole anti-science attitude offends me, but I doubt that you are apologizing for that even though you said “in any way”.

    Saying your god is real holds about as much weight with me as when the goat demon worshipers say their god is real. What you fail to comprehend is that I view all of you the same way. When you understand why you don’t believe in the goat demon god, you’ll understand why I don’t believe in your sky fairy. 

    That’s not my definition of a god stop with the strawman fallacies. 

    Not true, “everything” doesn’t evolve. Evolution is just about creatures. Rocks don’t evolve, nor do any other inanimate objects. You again display your scientific lack of understanding.

    I have said before that ID has nothing to do with evolution. I get this is a difficult concept for you to grasp but just because you say something is true, that doesn’t make it true. This isn’t how reality works.

    You are not correcting me on ID because ID doesn’t exist, because your creator doesn’t exist anymore than the other gods who claim to be the creator. I’m still an atheist, I don’t believe in any of your sky fairies.

    Dirt can be finite and have existed infinitely. You have yet to disprove this regardless of how many times you say it. Also dirt isn’t a being, but your god is… so thanks for providing me that proof that evolution rather than creationism is true. Ah back to play semantics with the different conjugations of the word infinite. Infinity is still the same word as infinite.

    By saying your creator is an absolute proves absolutes don’t exist.

    Still not your friend or buddy. Although I know you will never destroy science, undermining it the way you do to cast doubt on it has shown to be effective with people, and that’s why I’m still in this debate, to me that’s about as real as it gets.

    It’s not a brain, it’s a shitty attempt at a brain, and there is a HUGE difference between the two. Yes, the human brain is far more complex, on that at least we agree.

    And then right after saying the human brain is far more complex you say the computer brain put in a robot body will be “very much like us”. This is why you sound schizophrenic. 

    I think I saw Chappie, but I don’t remember as it’s be awhile. I really don’t want to get into Technological singularity, but I would say at some point we’ll likely be able to copy someone’s consciousness it could be achieved to the point that people interacting wouldn’t know it wasn’t you. 

    When it comes to flat earth vs evolution, evolution is not in any way “dying”. Your little cult of sky fairy worshipers hasn’t made much of an impact on the world. 

    I made a baby, so yes I can create a mind. Spirits don’t exist, and neither does your god. You make the claim that it does, the burden of proof is on you to show your proof of the spirits existence.

    We aren’t friends. I find that older people tend to be more indoctrinated so I don’t have problem believing your 61. Oh ya “Negro men that I was training” I’ll go with you being 61. ROFL And I’m not surprised you have family that wishes you dead either. Haha Why would you say that ? ROFL Which rolls into a bats*** crazy rant about NASA and doctors trying to kill people.

    Theism and superstition is dying out. As sciences understands more of more that what the bible said is bull****. The new religions created (scientology) are ridiculed right out of the gate, and aren’t being widely accepted, as the established one die out consistently losing worshipers. Your belief system is dying out, it won’t happen in yours or even my lifetime but it’s dying, and I for one can’t wait for them all to join the rest of the myths. 
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @Coveny to
    @Evidence You know for being accused of “derailing the debate” it sure looks like you wrote a book to me about this debate I’m derailing… but hey actions have no bearing on reality in your fantasy world I guess.

    I answered your confusion, as I always do. Read it for once.

    Coveny - My mind is my brain, and it didn’t evolve from itself no. Neither did consciousness evolve from the brain/mind. Consciousness is a product of the brain/mind and doesn’t exist without it. My brain/mind is a product of evolution from all my ancestors. Now it sounds like you are trying to say that because by mind/brain is a product of evolution everything that my mind/brain produces is a product of evolution, and this is simply not the case. The word evolution deals with bibliology not technology stop twisting what you don’t understand. Scientific illiteracy is strong with this one. Secondly, I don’t have a religion… because I’m an atheist… stop with the twisting.

    Yes, .. 'you' are all the product of evolution, just read up on your Pastor Dawkins; "epistles to the apes" in which he explains that the mind is the ape-mans delusion that he thinks he has free will.
    So I guess with proper diet, and a trip to another continent should 'fix' this problem!? Not only will that 'change your mind', but can even speciate you into another animal? I don't know, but that is what Dawkins preaches!

    Coveny - I posted you a video of my favor proof of evolution. Because the lifecycle of bacteria is so fast you can see the bacteria evolve to overcome the antibiotics while you watch. There are thousands of other proofs of evolution but this one is the simplest, you can see the change visually, and if you understand that you can understand how evolution works. Here is a link to that video again.

    , .. those bacteria have been 'evolving' for the past 4.2 BILLION years, do you know how many generations that is? And yet, .. they are still bacteria.
    Like me for instance, I have been poisoned so many times in my life, that I became immune to them, but I'm still human created in my Creators Image.

    Coveny - First of Dawkins isn’t a pastor. Second off I’m not debating for Dawkins I’m debating for myself. Present your points against what I say and stop with the strawman arguments against me.

    Sure, as soon as you stop posting idiotic "evolving bacteria" videos against me.
    And Dawkins goes around preaching his religion to atheist/evolutionists, we call that a Pastor!

    Bacteria? Yes, they can become immune to antibiotics, just as my skin can become immune to burning from the sun. In just a month living outdoors in Arizona, me a white skinned Hungarian evolved into an Indian, could run all day in the 115 degree F desert with no water, just wearing shorts, and got as, if not darker than most Indians, but far as I know, I remained a human, and Hungarian, .. just as those bacteria remained bacteria, after 4.2 Billion Years of your evolution. Explain that?

    Coveny - All gods are just fairies that live in the sky. I stopped believing Santa existed when I was a child, sadly it’s something you seem to have not grown out of. The absurdity of saying an all-knowing being is a scientist just shows you have no clue that science is about the search for knowledge and understanding how things work.

    LOL, .. so scientists don't invent things, you know, like the computer you write on, the system that sends the info with etc. instead they just observe how "things" work, right? My goodness, really?

    Coveny - Still an atheist… still don’t believe/worship any gods.

    An atheist claims he don't believe in any gods, and he sticks to that religiously, .. no matter how dumb that belief really is?

    Coveny - Yes if you would stop tagging me that would be ok. Your whole anti-science attitude offends me, but I doubt that you are apologizing for that even though you said “in any way”.

    So I can't start a debate mentioning you and your religious beliefs and claims that you don't believe that gods exist?
    Wait, but you do believe that "god/gods don't exist", .. right? I'm just checking, because religious people change religions so often.

    Coveny - Saying your god is real holds about as much weight with me as when the goat demon worshipers say their god is real. What you fail to comprehend is that I view all of you the same way. When you understand why you don’t believe in the goat demon god, you’ll understand why I don’t believe in your sky fairy.

    Hey Coveny, can you elaborate a little more on this "goat demon god" that you say you don't believe exists? It's quite new to me, .. this 'goat demon god'. Is this also one of the gods that atheists claim they "don't believe" exists?

    Coveny - That’s not my definition of a god stop with the strawman fallacies.

    So what is YOUR definition of a god? You did create a new one, your "goat demon god', .. any other god/gods you created that "don't exist"?

    Coveny - Not true, “everything” doesn’t evolve. Evolution is just about creatures. Rocks don’t evolve, nor do any other inanimate objects. You again display your scientific lack of understanding.

    Sure, that's why my name is "Evidence", because I have a scientific lack of understanding, .. lol. But I'm here not to just learn, but hopefully educate, so since it is obvious you don't spend too much time in science fiction circles, I will do that for you too. Here we go, sci-fi universe first, .. according to your Catholic/Jesuit Priest George Lemaitre; "in the beginning, there was a Big-Bang! Then the universe stories 'evolved' from there on".



    All from NASA's James Webb Telescope and an ultra-high-res supercomputer CGI image creator!

    then, your "solar system evolved", ..



    .. really, must I teach you about your own BB-Evolution religion?

    Coveny - I have said before that ID has nothing to do with evolution. I get this is a difficult concept for you to grasp but just because you say something is true, that doesn’t make it true. This isn’t how reality works.

    You are not correcting me on ID because ID doesn’t exist, because your creator doesn’t exist anymore than the other gods who claim to be the creator. I’m still an atheist, I don’t believe in any of your sky fairies.

    Please see above -

    Coveny - Dirt can be finite and have existed infinitely. You have yet to disprove this regardless of how many times you say it. Also dirt isn’t a being, but your god is… so thanks for providing me that proof that evolution rather than creationism is true. Ah back to play semantics with the different conjugations of the word infinite. Infinity is still the same word as infinite.

    Just like "tower" and "towering" right?
    "Coveny went to see the Eifel towering that went up till it became Infinite".

    Just because something can go on infinitely doesn't mean it becomes "Infinite". A clock could run eternally, or like Gods Son Word, he will live on forever, but neither is, nor ever become "Eternal".

    Coveny - By saying your creator is an absolute proves absolutes don’t exist.

    Yes, Infinite and Eternal are absolutes, but not infinity and eternity. Some "thing" can go on flying through, or into infinity, and may be living eternally, but God could stop both. "Adam was created to live forever!" remember?

    Coveny - Still not your friend or buddy. Although I know you will never destroy science, undermining it the way you do to cast doubt on it has shown to be effective with people, and that’s why I’m still in this debate, to me that’s about as real as it gets.

    It’s not a brain, it’s a shitty attempt at a brain, and there is a HUGE difference between the two. Yes, the human brain is far more complex, on that at least we agree.

    And then right after saying the human brain is far more complex you say the computer brain put in a robot body will be “very much like us”. This is why you sound schizophrenic.

    Your acting like that pigeon again, .. is that what I'm debating with, a pigeon? Because man, you're crapping all over my debates.
     
    Coveny - I think I saw Chappie, but I don’t remember as it’s be awhile. I really don’t want to get into Technological singularity, but I would say at some point we’ll likely be able to copy someone’s consciousness it could be achieved to the point that people interacting wouldn’t know it wasn’t you.

    You really should watch it again, .. not as a movie/entertainment, .. which it's NOT. It sucks! But as a "message", like the Matrix, .. They Live, .. Logan's Run, .. and others like them. And no, "They" will never be able to capture the soul/mind, and even that you mention it, you admit it is something that can be captured and "copied".
    Not like in the movie "Robocop" where they kept a brain alive, "They" at the Blue-Brain project know exactly what they are attempting, .. like I said, not the Robocop idea, but specifically the "soul/mind" of man.

    Coveny - When it comes to flat earth vs evolution, evolution is not in any way “dying”. Your little cult of sky fairy worshipers hasn’t made much of an impact on the world.

    Hellooo The sky fairy worshippers created your BB-Universe story, and they're the ones who put the globes in schools! Oh never mind, I just remembered you're an atheist who can describe all them god/gods he doesn't believe in.  lol.

    Coveny - I made a baby, so yes I can create a mind. Spirits don’t exist, and neither does your god. You make the claim that it does, the burden of proof is on you to show your proof of the spirits existence.

    Now THAT is in the eye of the beholder (which you prove with every debate), only one who is spiritual, who walks in the spirit and truth can see/understand the mind/spirit, especially The Great One and Only Infinite Spirit/Mind "I Am". And since you have given up your spirit, as you claim that you only have a brain, no spirit/mind, you are dead, .. spiritually speaking. Your mind no longer in charge of your body, but ideas, religious ideas rule over your mind, mixed in with spirits from the supernatural realm which today they call "mental illness" but Biblically it's "demonic possession". Yes, you may be entertaining them sky fairies in your head.

    I say this because even if I tell you I consider you as my Debating-friend, and appreciate you as such, you resent it.
    I mean look how long we been debating already, .. I can just imagine your attitude towards people you never talked to, or just pass up on the street, .. road rage comes to my mind.

    Coveny - We aren’t friends. I find that older people tend to be more indoctrinated so I don’t have problem believing your 61. Oh ya “Negro men that I was training” I’ll go with you being 61. ROFL And I’m not surprised you have family that wishes you dead either. Haha Why would you say that ? ROFL Which rolls into a bats*** crazy rant about NASA and doctors trying to kill people.

    Rofl all you want, it's the truth. Do you know what Custom made Plastic furniture covers are? back East, especially with the blacks, it is, or was at least, very popular, and it was getting very hard to find whites doing this job (couldn't take being shot at, or attacked by dogs, so my bosses had me train Black Americans, .. Negro men, yes, .. why?

    Doctors are murdering millions of people a year in this country alone, the most common is by chemo-radiation therapy. Why?
    My family, particularly my Mom wanted to kill me as soon as I was born, I still don't have the answer to why, even my 5 brothers and sister won't talk about it. Yeah, .. I'm sure you could see that, newborn infant abandoned with 3 brothers and a sister, left them with no milk, or any baby food to feed me with, so my 12 year old sister fed me mashed potatoes with water in a bottle. The rest I won't tell you because your 3lb mind couldn't take it.

    Coveny - Theism and superstition is dying out.

    LOL, .. Is that what those "sky fairies from the supernatural realm" are telling you? Try man, please, at least try to get them out of there, they are lying to you.

    Theism, which is the gods in all the Religions are ruling the world through the billions of people they poses, especially evident is at 666CERN, as you seen in the "Switzerland Tunnel Opening Celebration" videos, and the stories coming out of there.

    Coveny - As sciences understands more of more that what the bible said is bull****.

    You mean; as pseudoscience takes more and more control of the people through the mass media, twitter, movies, commercials on TV, on the Internet, on their phone? Look, the whole worlds population are like zombies, illegal-drugged, brainwashed, over-medicated and poisoned zombies. Yes, that is what these demonic Sci-Fientists are saying to these already brainwashed, act-on-command zombies that the Bible is bull&^%.
    Do you think todays teens will crack open the Bible to see if that's true or not? They can't leave their cell-phone even when eating or on the shitter, they sleep with it, so yes, your demonic pseudoscientists got everyone where they want them to be, waiting what their favorite god/goddesses will Tweet next! Or what CGI images of far-far-away planets they will show them?

    Look, you ramble against God our Creator who you know absolutely nothing about, (you only know and worship man-made gods) against the Bible, which again you are completely ignorant of, so please stop, you're making yourself look sillier with every post.  

    Coveny - The new religions created (scientology) are ridiculed right out of the gate, and aren’t being widely accepted, as the established one die out consistently losing worshipers. Your belief system is dying out, it won’t happen in yours or even my lifetime but it’s dying, and I for one can’t wait for them all to join the rest of the myths.

    Lol again, scientology ridiculed? What do you think NASA and CERN is? They are Scientology under cover. These are followers of L. Ron Hubbard, Marshal Applewhite, Gene Roddenberry, Spock, making up some really crazy stories from the artist-rendered pictures they get from sci-fi artists. As for the Christian Religion that created your Big Banged Universe and the Globe Earth, the Pope has already united them, including the rest of the religions, including your Sci-fi BB-Evolution Religion will soon be One-myth, lead by the Jesuit Pope.
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    @Evidence Read it for once? Seriously? I responded to everything before I won’t be doing that this time.

    Evolving bacteria proves evolution, it’s not my fault you can’t understand that the children can do things their parents couldn’t do… they evolved.

    You skin will never because immune to burning… where do you come up with this crap?

    Hey dumba** if Yahweh “invented” something then he’s not all knowing. You contradict your own beliefs.

    You can mention me, but I asked you not to. This a difficult concept for you? 

    You brought up the goat demon, you research it yourself.

    Define god:
    Webster - a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship;
    Dictionary - the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute:
    Oxford - a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
    Cambridge - a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or a representation of this being

    All gods (including yours) don’t exist.

    I should have taken the username “yahweh” as simply having that name is proof in your world that it’s true. ROFL 

    I.D. doesn’t exist(like your god), and has nothing to do with evolution, . Your point?

    More like and shitty. Your debate skills were , because your understanding of science was shitty.

    It’s not possible for something to go off in an infinite direction infinitely in your world? Really tell me more… let the conjugation begin…

    Oh look I’m spiritual so I know there is a spirit, you aren’t spiritual so you don’t know there is a spirit. That is such conman speak it makes me laugh. It’s almost Sunday… you better have my MONEY!!!

    <where’s my money bitches>

    Research says there are less theist every year. It’s even dying in the US now. (which held out longer than expected) The younger people aren’t buying the bulls*** that is the bible. Your ways are dying.

    No one know anything about yahweh because he doesn’t exist. Moses would be in a psych ward if that shroom user were alive today.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @Coveny ;                
    @Evidence Read it for once? Seriously? I responded to everything before I won’t be doing that this time.

    Responded in a way that shown you didn't read what I said, you still call me a theist.

    Coveny - Evolving bacteria proves evolution, it’s not my fault you can’t understand that the children can do things their parents couldn’t do… they evolved.

    Yes, I did things my parents couldn't do, it is evolution, what God intended for us to do, evolve in Godly wisdom, .. doesn't mean I will now become some other animal form.

    @Coveny - You skin will never because immune to burning… where do you come up with this crap?

    I was talking about the sun-burn and you know it, and you're talking about being burnt at the stake or something. Are you under pressure, feel hot under the collar, feel you are loosing on every comment, well then get out of your religion. Blind faith does that to people, which is why The Catholics killed so many millions over the years, yes, those Catholics that invented your BB-Evolution religion.

    Coveny - Hey dumba** if Yahweh “invented” something then he’s not all knowing. You contradict your own beliefs.

    Invented - create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of

    .. so God is not all knowing because He created all things? And you call me a dumba** ??

    I guess if you believe that a speck can pop out of nothing, and for no reason create an, .. Aaah, never mind, the pigeon just took another poop.

    Coveny - You can mention me, but I asked you not to. This a difficult concept for you?

    You do know that you are on a Debating Forum, right pigeon? De-ba-ting Fo-rum, .. you put the name of the person that participated in the debates on this Forum, or Is this a difficult concept for you? I don't mention anyone from other Debating Forums, but even that would be OK since they are all public forum. Right of speech rings a bell?

    Coveny - You brought up the goat demon, you research it yourself.

    Come on pigeon, .. not another poop!? I get tired of wiping my screen clean after debating with you.

    Coveny - Define god:
    Webster - a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship;

    Oh look, this defines your Religious "beliefs", now what is that object that you believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and require human worship? Come on, you know what you worship, what is it?

    OK, I will remind you: It is that angry little quantum speck that popped out of nothing, got hotter and hotter under the collar till it couldn't help but explode with a Big Bang and created your imaginary universe. This, according to BB-Evolutionist Pastors require worship, which is why Preachers like Lawrence Kraus and Richard Dawkins go on Missions to preach their beliefs all over the world, right?

    Coveny - Dictionary - the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute:

    Pharaohs? They are not "Infinite".

    Coveny - Oxford - a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

    Ahh, .. a deity who has power over human fortunes, who promises the whole world to you, all you have to do is bow down and worship him.
    Nope, that is not my/our Creator. Our creator want's us to worship Him because we know from evidence with substance just how great, and mighty, and loving He is!

    Coveny - Cambridge - a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or a representation of this being

    Or, .. or, .. or, .. so what, Cambridge doesn't know either? So which is it, a being, or a spirit, because Our Creator is Spirit, but not a being? Does he/she/it control all, or just "some" part of the universe?

    Coveny - All gods (including yours) don’t exist.

    What? You just defined the attributes of all the deities/gods, and now you say they don't exist?
    Buddy, you don't know "my God", the only god/gods/deities/demons you know are theos, either stone, wood or plastic, and the spirit ones, those deities who reside in earths supernatural realm are demons, fallen angels that you and billions gave your body's over to, to possess.

    Coveny - I should have taken the username “yahweh” as simply having that name is proof in your world that it’s true. ROFL

    Sure, .. why not? As long as you present evidence, right? There are thousands who claim they are Jesus Christ, but show no, or very little evidence of that. So you can call yourself whatever you like, just try to show evidence of who you are.

    Coveny - I.D. doesn’t exist(like your god), and has nothing to do with evolution, . Your point?

    Old Henry Ford would definitely disagree with you, .. "I.D. don't exist", .. sheessh, don't you think you take your "Evolution Religion" a little too far?

    Coveny - More like and shitty. Your debate skills were , because your understanding of science was shitty.
    It’s not possible for something to go off in an infinite direction infinitely in your world? Really tell me more… let the conjugation begin…

    Yes, .. "some thing", and that "some thing" will never become Infinite. Infinite direction is NOT Infinite. God is Infinite, He doesn't go off in all kinds of directions like your own gods you don't believe in. He doesn't waver either, He is Absolute, the Ground of Being.

    Coveny - Oh look I’m spiritual so I know there is a spirit, you aren’t spiritual so you don’t know there is a spirit. That is such conman speak it makes me laugh. It’s almost Sunday… you better have my MONEY!!!
    <where’s my money bitches>

    What would a theistic religion like the Catholic invented Christian Religion who invented the Big-Banged universe and gave our parents the Globe which you believe in, by the way, .. know anything about the  "spirit/mind"?



    Coveny - Research says there are less theist every year. It’s even dying in the US now. (which held out longer than expected) The younger people aren’t buying the bulls*** that is the bible. Your ways are dying.

    Again for the hundredth time, the "theist" ways are NOT my ways, .. no Organized Religion knows, nor could accept our Infinite Creator, because that would be the end of that Religion, but of course you will not, .. because you cannot understand this with your tiny 3lb. evolving brain.
    It would take you millions and billions and trillions of Carl Sagan years for your brain to 'evolve' an understanding for that, and that too if there was Mother Nature throwing dice, and 'selecting' the proper thoughts for you to make any sense!

    Coveny - No one know anything about yahweh because he doesn’t exist.

    No one knows because Religion has taken over mans heart, souls and minds, because the make believe gods sounded better for them than our Creator. Even a science fiction fairytale like the Big-Bang story was acceptable to the now fully debased minds, so I pray that Religion, with all their self created gods would "die out", but that is NOT what's happening and you know it.

    What is happening is that your religious leader the Pope and all the pseudoscientists in the world are coming together against the remnants of the Children of God (and I don't mean the Jews) but mainly against the Bible. They have perverted Biblical teachings so far, they hid God amongst the theist gods like you said that; He is just another god amongst all the gods.

    But this is not enough, for they know that the Only true way to put an end for anyone to even start searching for God is to burn the Bible and replace it with books like Mine Kampf, the Satanic Bible, and books on BB-Evolution. 

    Coveny - Moses would be in a psych ward if that shroom user were alive today.

    Yes, and if not by the hands of the other Religions, then the Christians themselves would crucify him and all his followers, not just put him in a psych wards. The same way they killed millions upon millions in Europe, calling them heretics and witches.
    As if the Devil would kill witches, and warlocks, after which he built Schools of Divinity, and Trinity colleges for them to become better mediums so they could better communicate with him and his demons?

    Don't worry, your Religion is safe, it's in the hands of the ones that invented your BB-Religion, the Jesuits, which now is Pope!
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    @Evidence you believe in the god Yahweh the one you call the uncreated creator exists… you are a theist unless you would like to admit yahweh has no “powers” and is just another human. But if you continue to consider him a SUPERhuman being, then he is a god, and therefore you are a theist.

    If you can do things your parents couldn’t do, then you evolved, and you become a different species if a change helps you survive. (it doesn’t always)

    You didn’t become immune to burns regardless of if the source is the sun, or a flame thrower.

    I guess this is tough for you but if you already know everything you don’t create it, you don’t design it. If know how to make a footstool, I didn’t create or design it did I… because I already knew about it before I started. You have a hard time with logic don’t you?

    I don’t believe a speck “popped out of nothing”. I believe dirt has always existed, and there was never a nothing state to be pop’d out of. It’s simple take that highly complex and powerful sky fairy you have faith in having always existed, take away the complexity, and power and poof you have dirt that has always existed. If you believe it possible for Yahweh to have always existed, it shouldn’t be hard for you to understand something far less complex and power could have always existed. (but then there is that pesky cognitive dissonance getting in the way though)

    Yes, I’m a debating forums, do you have a point? Oh, wait I get it, you are so use to having a master and not getting to choose that you don’t think others should get choices in what they do. Let me give you an example for reference. If I go out with someone that doesn’t mean they get to have sex with me. If I wear revealing clothing that doesn’t mean they get to have sex with me. If I kiss them, and take my clothes off, that still does not mean they get to have sex with me. I’m going to ask you again is this a difficult concept for you?

    I don’t believe any beings with superhuman abilities exist. 

    I will remind you dirt has always existed… no superpowers needed just reality. You should try reality some time just to change things up. No one said anything about pharaoh captain red herring. Nothing about the deity promising anything. more red herrings. Let me go find the yahweh definition of god from those sources.

    Webster - the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
    Dictionary - the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
    Oxford - (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
    Cambridge - (esp. in Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief) the being that created and rules the universe, the earth, and its people:

    All the same word, just these are more in line with the what the theists of yahweh believe. Doesn’t matter I don’t believe in any of them so I’m an atheist, and you believe in this one so you are a theist.

    I can define the attributes of Cthulhu and he doesn’t exist either. I get you believe in magic, but knowledge of a fairy tale doesn’t mean that fairy tale exists. 

    Evolution isn’t a religion. NASA isn’t a god. Dawkins isn’t a pastor. I’m not a theist. Your inability to understand a life away from gods, doesn’t mean that the rest of us can’t live that way.

      

    You said “"theist" ways are NOT my ways, .. no Organized Religion knows, nor could accept our Infinite Creator” When you say “our creator” you are a theist. Your ways are theist ways. Own it, and stop with the double talk. Goat herders have no problem understanding your infinite uncreated creator… they are the ones who created him for you, what takes a brain to understand is that everything you are regurgitating is horses***.You follow the bible, and claim not to be a theist. what is wrong with you?

    The devil doesn’t exist. Witches and warlocks don’t exist. Demons don’t exist. Stop living in fairyland. I’m still not religious. I’m still an atheist. I still don’t believe in any of your sky fairies.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Coveny said:
    @Evidence you believe in the god Yahweh the one you call the uncreated creator exists… you are a theist unless you would like to admit yahweh has no “powers” and is just another human. But if you continue to consider him a SUPERhuman being, then he is a god, and therefore you are a theist.

    If you can do things your parents couldn’t do, then you evolved, and you become a different species if a change helps you survive. (it doesn’t always)

    You didn’t become immune to burns regardless of if the source is the sun, or a flame thrower.

    I guess this is tough for you but if you already know everything you don’t create it, you don’t design it. If know how to make a footstool, I didn’t create or design it did I… because I already knew about it before I started. You have a hard time with logic don’t you?

    I don’t believe a speck “popped out of nothing”. I believe dirt has always existed, and there was never a nothing state to be pop’d out of. It’s simple take that highly complex and powerful sky fairy you have faith in having always existed, take away the complexity, and power and poof you have dirt that has always existed. If you believe it possible for Yahweh to have always existed, it shouldn’t be hard for you to understand something far less complex and power could have always existed. (but then there is that pesky cognitive dissonance getting in the way though)

    Yes, I’m a debating forums, do you have a point? Oh, wait I get it, you are so use to having a master and not getting to choose that you don’t think others should get choices in what they do. Let me give you an example for reference. If I go out with someone that doesn’t mean they get to have sex with me. If I wear revealing clothing that doesn’t mean they get to have sex with me. If I kiss them, and take my clothes off, that still does not mean they get to have sex with me. I’m going to ask you again is this a difficult concept for you?

    I don’t believe any beings with superhuman abilities exist. 

    I will remind you dirt has always existed… no superpowers needed just reality. You should try reality some time just to change things up. No one said anything about pharaoh captain red herring. Nothing about the deity promising anything. more red herrings. Let me go find the yahweh definition of god from those sources.

    Webster - the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
    Dictionary - the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
    Oxford - (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
    Cambridge - (esp. in Christian, Jewish, and Muslim belief) the being that created and rules the universe, the earth, and its people:

    All the same word, just these are more in line with the what the theists of yahweh believe. Doesn’t matter I don’t believe in any of them so I’m an atheist, and you believe in this one so you are a theist.

    I can define the attributes of Cthulhu and he doesn’t exist either. I get you believe in magic, but knowledge of a fairy tale doesn’t mean that fairy tale exists. 

    Evolution isn’t a religion. NASA isn’t a god. Dawkins isn’t a pastor. I’m not a theist. Your inability to understand a life away from gods, doesn’t mean that the rest of us can’t live that way.

      

    You said “"theist" ways are NOT my ways, .. no Organized Religion knows, nor could accept our Infinite Creator” When you say “our creator” you are a theist. Your ways are theist ways. Own it, and stop with the double talk. Goat herders have no problem understanding your infinite uncreated creator… they are the ones who created him for you, what takes a brain to understand is that everything you are regurgitating is horses***.You follow the bible, and claim not to be a theist. what is wrong with you?

    The devil doesn’t exist. Witches and warlocks don’t exist. Demons don’t exist. Stop living in fairyland. I’m still not religious. I’m still an atheist. I still don’t believe in any of your sky fairies.


    Is there anyone else on this Forum who wants to debate religion vs reality, this starting to sound like Marshal Applewhite and Jim Jones put together. I don't want to set either of them off. Take care Coveny, live long and prosper, .. nano-nano!
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    Is there anyone else on this Forum who wants to debate religion vs reality, this starting to sound like Marshal Applewhite and Jim Jones put together. I don't want to set either of them off. Take care Coveny, live long and prosper, .. nano-nano!
    Interesting that you would bring up Jim Jones he also held the position against organized religion because they lead the flock away from the true god of the bible and called himself an atheist while believing in yahweh. In many ways your theist stance is like his was, a person who believed/worshiped yahweh but considered themselves a atheist because. Below is a excerpt from Jim talking that I could copy and paste into your comments and no one would be able to tell the difference. Where on one hand you call yourself a atheist and in the next you say you believe the god christ existed, and follow his teachings quoting scripture from the new testament.

    Source
    Off the record, I don’t believe in any loving God. Our people, I would say, are ninety percent atheist. Uh, we— we think Jesus Christ was a swinger. He taught some pretty damn good things at feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, uh, maybe a little paternalistic, but it’s still uh— all the emphasis of the judgment of character— the only time he ever mentioned judgment at all was in Matthew 25, and it had to do totally with what you were doing for other people, so we— we emphasize the teachings of Christ
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Coveny said:
    Evidence said:
    Is there anyone else on this Forum who wants to debate religion vs reality, this starting to sound like Marshal Applewhite and Jim Jones put together. I don't want to set either of them off. Take care Coveny, live long and prosper, .. nano-nano!
    Interesting that you would bring up Jim Jones he also held the position against organized religion because they lead the flock away from the true god of the bible and called himself an atheist while believing in yahweh. In many ways your theist stance is like his was, a person who believed/worshiped yahweh but considered themselves a atheist because. Below is a excerpt from Jim talking that I could copy and paste into your comments and no one would be able to tell the difference. Where on one hand you call yourself a atheist and in the next you say you believe the god christ existed, and follow his teachings quoting scripture from the new testament.

    Source
    Off the record, I don’t believe in any loving God. Our people, I would say, are ninety percent atheist. Uh, we— we think Jesus Christ was a swinger. He taught some pretty damn good things at feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, uh, maybe a little paternalistic, but it’s still uh— all the emphasis of the judgment of character— the only time he ever mentioned judgment at all was in Matthew 25, and it had to do totally with what you were doing for other people, so we— we emphasize the teachings of Christ

    Yep, riiight, ..  I sound just like e'm, .. especially the first part.
    Here is where you quote what I said, and compare it with what you plopped (again) from the air.
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    Coveny said:
    Source
    Off the record, I don’t believe in any loving God. Our people, I would say, are ninety percent atheist. Uh, we— we think Jesus Christ was a swinger. He taught some pretty damn good things at feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, uh, maybe a little paternalistic, but it’s still uh— all the emphasis of the judgment of character— the only time he ever mentioned judgment at all was in Matthew 25, and it had to do totally with what you were doing for other people, so we— we emphasize the teachings of Christ

    Yep, riiight, ..  I sound just like e'm, .. especially the first part.
    Here is where you quote what I said, and compare it with what you plopped (again) from the air.
    Oh yes you do sound just like him. Saying you are an atheist who believes in christ and quotes bible passages.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Coveny said:
    Evidence said:
    Coveny said:
    Source
    Off the record, I don’t believe in any loving God. Our people, I would say, are ninety percent atheist. Uh, we— we think Jesus Christ was a swinger. He taught some pretty damn good things at feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, uh, maybe a little paternalistic, but it’s still uh— all the emphasis of the judgment of character— the only time he ever mentioned judgment at all was in Matthew 25, and it had to do totally with what you were doing for other people, so we— we emphasize the teachings of Christ

    Yep, riiight, ..  I sound just like e'm, .. especially the first part.
    Here is where you quote what I said, and compare it with what you plopped (again) from the air.
    Oh yes you do sound just like him. Saying you are an atheist who believes in christ and quotes bible passages.


    True, I don't believe any man made, Greek, Roman or 666CERN created god/gods that theists believe in, my Bible forbids me to bow down every Sunday and worship deities who divine their half truths and lies to mediums, Christian Diviners, Ministers and Pastors.

    And yes, I believe in Jesus Christ in ways your 3lb mind could never comprehend, ..  even after another 4.2 billion years of tectonic evolution. So have you learned anything about BB-Evolution from the info I sent you above? You sure went silent on that, .. ??
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @Coveny look what you did, completely derailed this good thread: "Term Artificial Intelligence is derogatory and inappropriate"!

    A.I. could really help you out here though, at least would keep you from wondering off to ramble your theist/atheistic beliefs.

    Please Answer the post.
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    Coveny said:
    Evidence said:
    Coveny said:
    Source
    Off the record, I don’t believe in any loving God. Our people, I would say, are ninety percent atheist. Uh, we— we think Jesus Christ was a swinger. He taught some pretty damn good things at feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, uh, maybe a little paternalistic, but it’s still uh— all the emphasis of the judgment of character— the only time he ever mentioned judgment at all was in Matthew 25, and it had to do totally with what you were doing for other people, so we— we emphasize the teachings of Christ

    Yep, riiight, ..  I sound just like e'm, .. especially the first part.
    Here is where you quote what I said, and compare it with what you plopped (again) from the air.
    Oh yes you do sound just like him. Saying you are an atheist who believes in christ and quotes bible passages.


    True, I don't believe any man made, Greek, Roman or 666CERN created god/gods that theists believe in, my Bible forbids me to bow down every Sunday and worship deities who divine their half truths and lies to mediums, Christian Diviners, Ministers and Pastors.

    And yes, I believe in Jesus Christ in ways your 3lb mind could never comprehend, ..  even after another 4.2 billion years of tectonic evolution. So have you learned anything about BB-Evolution from the info I sent you above? You sure went silent on that, .. ??
    You believe in Jesus Christ... you're a theist just like the greeks, romans, egyptians, rock worships, etc. And just like all of them you think your god is the "true" god, you think your way is the right way, and I think you're all wrong... so I'm atheist because I don't believe in any of them.
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    @Coveny look what you did, completely derailed this good thread: "Term Artificial Intelligence is derogatory and inappropriate"!

    A.I. could really help you out here though, at least would keep you from wondering off to ramble your theist/atheistic beliefs.

    Please Answer the post.
    I didn't derail the topic, the topic sucks, and is very narrow in scope there isn't going to be a lot of debate.

    A.I. can't help me out, and if you could stop spewing your theist/athiest propaganda that would be lovely.

    I answered the post in my first reply, you were much more interested in other topics though.
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1201 Pts   -  
    So this thread went from the term AI to religion. Coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    So this thread went from the term AI to religion. Coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
    Well, think about it @SilverishGoldNova in every A.I. movie including
    A.I. Artificial Intelligence 2001
    Ex Machina 2015
    2001 a Space Odyssey  1968
    Blade Runner
    I-Robot
    The Matrix
    The Terminator
    CHAPPiE
    and dozens, and dozens more all revolved around a Creator, which according to both theists/atheists is religion, .. right? So from a worldly perspective it's really unavoidable.

    I didn't make up the rules that
    faith = religion
    Creator/God = religion
    Books, but only certain books that atheist don't particularly like = religion,
    .. and so on.
    I'm the one who's debating against such erroneous religious POV's. My, or our Creator is not part of the theist/atheist religions, or their gods.
    Coveny
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    So this thread went from the term AI to religion. Coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
    Well, think about it @SilverishGoldNova in every A.I. movie including
    A.I. Artificial Intelligence 2001
    Ex Machina 2015
    2001 a Space Odyssey  1968
    Blade Runner
    I-Robot
    The Matrix
    The Terminator
    CHAPPiE
    and dozens, and dozens more all revolved around a Creator, which according to both theists/atheists is religion, .. right? So from a worldly perspective it's really unavoidable.

    I didn't make up the rules that
    faith = religion
    Creator/God = religion
    Books, but only certain books that atheist don't particularly like = religion,
    .. and so on.
    I'm the one who's debating against such erroneous religious POV's. My, or our Creator is not part of the theist/atheist religions, or their gods.
    You make up your own rules all the time, and no I don't believe just because a movie talks about a creator of robots it is a religion.

    Also to clear "the rules" up
    Faith = god(s)/creator's
    god(s)/creator = religion
    Books about god(s)/creator's = religion
    Atheist don't have god(s)/creator's (these are mutually exclusive)
    Theist have god(s)/creator's (these are mutually inclusive)
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Coveny said:
    Evidence said:
    So this thread went from the term AI to religion. Coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
    Well, think about it @SilverishGoldNova in every A.I. movie including
    A.I. Artificial Intelligence 2001
    Ex Machina 2015
    2001 a Space Odyssey  1968
    Blade Runner
    I-Robot
    The Matrix
    The Terminator
    CHAPPiE
    and dozens, and dozens more all revolved around a Creator, which according to both theists/atheists is religion, .. right? So from a worldly perspective it's really unavoidable.

    I didn't make up the rules that
    faith = religion
    Creator/God = religion
    Books, but only certain books that atheist don't particularly like = religion,
    .. and so on.
    I'm the one who's debating against such erroneous religious POV's. My, or our Creator is not part of the theist/atheist religions, or their gods.
    You make up your own rules all the time, and no I don't believe just because a movie talks about a creator of robots it is a religion.

    Also to clear "the rules" up
    Faith = god(s)/creator's
    god(s)/creator = religion
    Books about god(s)/creator's = religion
    Atheist don't have god(s)/creator's (these are mutually exclusive)
    Theist have god(s)/creator's (these are mutually inclusive)


    There you go, the Seth has spoken, so if anyone believes in something and develops a faith in it, it is god(s)/Creators even if they believe that you can make a boat out of a tree. Thus the boat is now his god. Faith=God/gods.
    Coveny: "Do you believe that 2+2=4?"
    "Yes, I do believe 2+2=4!"
    Coveny: "then you believe in god/gods, and you are religious! Get out of my class! Don't think, just accept it as fact that 2+2=4, and if I say 2+2=5, than now that's fact. Don't think about it, or try to build your faith in this, just accept it!" Lol.

    The Only gods/creator's that Coveny the atheist allows, is the ones in Greek mythology, in Religion. This also must be accepted as fact, not faith.

    Books, documentaries about gods according to the atheist Seth lord Coveny cannot be ancient History of god/gods and mythology, but is a religion. (even if an atheist wrote it?) So the guy who made the movie Zeitgeist is religious, .. I agree, because he is an atheist.

    Atheist don't have god(s)/creator's (these are mutually exclusive) they just religiously debate them and talk about them in their atheist megachurches.

    Theist have god(s)/creator's (these are mutually inclusive) which according to the Law of Coveny don't exist. Yep, theists may have gods, but they don't exist. That's why they worship them, and carry them around, or follow them like the Russian Jesus-god, right?



    Yes Coveny, I'm convinced now, .. NOT! But the really sad part is that you are still an atheist who believes the thousands of gods that you claim can only exist in Greek mythology "theism", .. that you say 'must be' believed in on blind faith, don't exist, .. ??
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    @Evidence you don’t ask me why I believe 2+2=4 though so you don’t know if it’s faith or not do you? Which is pretty rich given your whole argument is do what I say, believe as I tell you to believe. You still don't get the difference between indoctrination and science.

    I allow all god(s)/creator’s; however, I don’t believe any of them exist. There are about 4000 of them, I don’t believe any of them exist.

    Books aren’t necessary history but they can be. I don’t refute mythology, as the term includes the belief that they don’t exist. 

    I believe thousands of fantasy novels about gods do exist, but I don’t believe thousands of gods exist. If I believe any god(s)/creators existed… I wouldn’t be an atheist.
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    @Coveny so you don't believe god/gods exist, yet you say: "There are about 4000 of them,"

    Here is some bedtime reality for you to help you sleep:



    Good night Coveny, try to get some rest.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • CovenyCoveny 419 Pts   -  
    Evidence said:
    @Coveny so you don't believe god/gods exist, yet you say: "There are about 4000 of them,"

    Here is some bedtime reality for you to help you sleep:

    Good night Coveny, try to get some rest.
    There are 1000s of fiction books out there with several different characters in them, I don't believe any of those 10s of thousands of characters exist either if you are curious.
  • I see where you are coming from. If Artificial Intelligence is really created (true sentience) then that means that the AI will constantly improve itself. The smarter it is, the faster it improves, which would eventually bring it to the Technological Singularity. The Artificial Intelligence would be created, which would make its beginning artificial. But, as it would learns and gain information, its intelligence would grow on its own, in a natural way. So, perhaps, we should change the words to 'Artificially Created Intelligence', instead of just 'Artificial Intelligence'.
  • As I stated in my own argument, only the base foundations and source code for artificial intelligence is Artificial. Once a machine becomes sentient, it gains information, and thinks for itself. It's thoughts are original, the information it gains is done by growing its ability to understand and apply information. So, technically, artificial intelligence should only be called Artifically Created Intelligence, since the thoughts of a sentient machine are natural, but come from the original created structured mind, which is the source code. Anyway, it is a difficult concept to comprehend, and I don't necessarily disagreee with you. @AlwaysCorrect
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    Coveny said:
    Evidence said:
    @Coveny so you don't believe god/gods exist, yet you say: "There are about 4000 of them,"

    Here is some bedtime reality for you to help you sleep:

    Good night Coveny, try to get some rest.
    There are 1000s of fiction books out there with several different characters in them, I don't believe any of those 10s of thousands of characters exist either if you are curious.
    @Coveny so you also admit that there are 1000s of fiction books out there with 10s of thousands of characters, yet you don't believe they exist either? Ouch!

    So are you saying that Chris Hemsworth is getting tens of millions of dollars for playing a non-existent character?

    Thor exists, exactly as portrayed in Marvel Comics.
    Your atheistic gods exist also, exactly as portrayed in their own religions.

    Our Infinite Creator "I Am" exists also, exactly how He is described in the Bible, and evidenced in reality.

    Coveny
  • EvidenceEvidence 814 Pts   -  
    As I stated in my own argument, only the base foundations and source code for artificial intelligence is Artificial. Once a machine becomes sentient, it gains information, and thinks for itself. It's thoughts are original, the information it gains is done by growing its ability to understand and apply information. So, technically, artificial intelligence should only be called Artifically Created Intelligence, since the thoughts of a sentient machine are natural, but come from the original created structured mind, which is the source code. Anyway, it is a difficult concept to comprehend, and I don't necessarily disagreee with you. @AlwaysCorrect

    @JacobHawking said: "Once a machine becomes sentient, it gains information, and thinks for itself"

    .. becomes sentient? How?
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