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How can god possibly exist and be true with so many ridiculous absurdities in the bible?

Opening Argument

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ;
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 

"I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29

"He rested."
Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

"And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

Adam finally dies -- 930 years after eating from the tree of knowledge, contrary to God's false prophecy that Adam would die the day that he ate the forbidden fruit (2:17). 5:5 

God decides to kill all living things because the human imagination is evil. Later (8:21), after he kills everything, he promises never to do it again because the human imagination is evil. Go figure 6:5 

God repents. 6:6-7 

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens."
How did Noah know which animals were "clean" and "unclean" to God? (It wasn't defined until Leviticus was written.) 7:2 

Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11 

"I do set my bow in the cloud."
God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He makes a deal with the animals, promising never to drown them all again. He even puts the rainbow in the sky so that whenever he sees it, it will remind him of his promise so that he won't be tempted to do it again. (Every time God sees the rainbow he says to himself: "Oh, yeah.... That's right. I promised not to drown the animals again. I guess I'll have to find something else to do."). 
But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13

God says, "Let us go down ..." Maybe he hasn't been talking to himself; maybe there is more than one of them up there. Well, however many there may be, they all decide to come down to confuse the builders by confounding human language and scattering them [humans] abroad. 11:7

The Jews were God's chosen people. So why did God have them enslaved for 400 years? n15:13 

https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;
GE 1:3-514-19 There was light ("night and day") before there was a sun. (Note: If there were no sun, there would be no night or day. Also, light from the newly created heavenly bodies seems to have reached the earth instantaneously though it now takes thousands or millions of years.)

GE 1:12, 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.

GE 1:29 Every plant and tree which yield seed are given to us by God as good to eat. (Note: This would include poisonous plants such as hemlock, buckeye pod, nightshade, oleander.)

GE 6:5 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to flood the earth to eliminate mankind. All living things including plants, animals, women and innocent children are also exterminated. (Note: This is like burning down a house to rid it of mice.)

GE 7:19-20 The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits (twenty plus feet) above the highest mountains.(Note: This would require steady, worldwide rainfall at the rate of about 6 inches per minute, 360 inches per hour, 8640 inches per day--for 40 days and nights--so as to cover the entire earth with an endless ocean 5 miles deep, thus burying 29,000 ft. Mt. Everest under 22 ft. of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Did Noah take soundings? And where has all this water gone?)

GE 3:14-16 God curses the serpent, Eve, and Adam for what they have done. (Note: This is inconsistent with God's omniscience; God should have known full well, ahead of time, what the outcome would be. Since God created the three as well as the Tree of Knowledge, he is ultimately responsible for the Fall.)

LE 14:49-53 The cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird. 

NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master. 

2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slain in a single battle. (Note: This is more than were lost in any single battle of World War II, and even exceeds the number of deaths that resulted from the dropping of the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.) 

etc etc etc 

Now why should anybody believe in this god of clear insanity? 
dropoutEvidenceSilverishGoldNova
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  • Because everyone is entitled to their own opinions and forms of worship that should be respected so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others. There is nothing wrong with believing in God or in the powers he exercised in the Bible, the likes of which in a theist's eyes were seen historically but not now. For many people God does not represent strictly what is said in the Bible and he can be an expression of every day life. For those who do believe in the Bible, I say let their interpretation of religion be. Religion is a source of comfort for many people and to know all these stories exist serves as a moral guideline that I think can be a very good thing. Of course it's not all harmonious virtue all the time but nothing is.

    This is coming from a very strict atheist. I don't believe in God or any part of the Bible, but let people be. You sound like a complete jerk in half your arguments and people would be willing to take you more seriously if you toned it down.
    SuperSith89comey_testify
  • When I became an atheist I expected to wage many heated discussions arguing, like you, how it was impossible for God to exist. It turned out that atheists were so unecessarily vicious that now I spend most of my time defending religion and people's belief in a god instead. Well done, sir.
  • @melanielust I'm sorry but I cannot possibly respond to anything you have to say. Its so worthless, trite, has nothing to do with the subject matter... I only read your first sentence and then shut it down because of that. The end. 
    PowerPikachu21SuperSith89Erfisflatm_abusteitSilverishGoldNova
  • melanielustmelanielust 261 Pts
    edited June 2017
    @awaketowhere
    And that's exactly why no one will ever want to debate with you. If you'd read a little further you would have seen I fully addressed your remarks.
    Peak of arrogance: dismissing without even being willing to understand.
    By the way, if there's one way to tell a man has no confidence in his argument, it's  how he dismisses the arguments of others...
    PowerPikachu21SuperSith89m_abusteit
  • Um no. It means YOU won't debate with me. But then again, I wouldn't want someone like you or anyone who has such limited and obvious stunted intelligence and edumacation levels that you have to debate me with. Your first sentence in your first post says everything I need to know because it has 0 to do with "opinions". See you didn't even read a single absurdity, not one that would NEVER take place IF god is god, before you posted your idiotic "opinion" rhetoric which has nothing to do with anything as you also tried to change the subject as well in your first sentence which didn't work either. Good night. 
    WhyTrumpSuperSith89Erfisflatm_abusteit
  • melanielustmelanielust 261 Pts
    edited June 2017
    @awaketowhere

    strongly leaning towards you being a troll....?
    If not then you really need to have more of an open mind man. Live outside of your needless hatred for once.
    You can't say anything about my argument because you literally didn't read it. Why? Because you're afraid of finding a logical argument in there? Because you're too lazy to come up with a solid rebuttal? Because you find pleasure in being immature and demeaning? Are you 12? If that's how you want to handle what's supposed to be a respectful discussion, until next time.
    WhyTrumpSuperSith89comey_testify
  • @melanielust Not sure if age is relevant. I know an Anti-Theist from debate.org and he's 50 years old (according to his profile). Though "let opinions be" isn't proof of existence or a direct rebuttal, it's advice worth taking to heart. If you believe God to be evil, how are you any better in hating?
    melanielust
  • @PowerPikachu21 Oh you weren't here early enough.  aarong deleted his above comments to me.  This guy is extremely rude and hateful, believe me. His idea is that if you disagree with him, you deserve to be made fun of.  
    comey_testifymelanielustPowerPikachu21
  • @melanielust , great! 
    melanielust
  • So he is backwardseden. I never liked the guy, honestly.
  • @PowerPikachu21 He must have more of a reputation than I thought.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1135 Pts
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ;
    Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 

    "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
    Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29

    "He rested."
    Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

    Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

    "And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

    Adam finally dies -- 930 years after eating from the tree of knowledge, contrary to God's false prophecy that Adam would die the day that he ate the forbidden fruit (2:17). 5:5 

    God decides to kill all living things because the human imagination is evil. Later (8:21), after he kills everything, he promises never to do it again because the human imagination is evil. Go figure 6:5 

    God repents. 6:6-7 

    "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens."
    How did Noah know which animals were "clean" and "unclean" to God? (It wasn't defined until Leviticus was written.) 7:2 

    Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11 

    "I do set my bow in the cloud."
    God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He makes a deal with the animals, promising never to drown them all again. He even puts the rainbow in the sky so that whenever he sees it, it will remind him of his promise so that he won't be tempted to do it again. (Every time God sees the rainbow he says to himself: "Oh, yeah.... That's right. I promised not to drown the animals again. I guess I'll have to find something else to do."). 
    But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13

    God says, "Let us go down ..." Maybe he hasn't been talking to himself; maybe there is more than one of them up there. Well, however many there may be, they all decide to come down to confuse the builders by confounding human language and scattering them [humans] abroad. 11:7

    The Jews were God's chosen people. So why did God have them enslaved for 400 years? n15:13 

    https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;
    GE 1:3-514-19 There was light ("night and day") before there was a sun. (Note: If there were no sun, there would be no night or day. Also, light from the newly created heavenly bodies seems to have reached the earth instantaneously though it now takes thousands or millions of years.)

    GE 1:12, 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.

    GE 1:29 Every plant and tree which yield seed are given to us by God as good to eat. (Note: This would include poisonous plants such as hemlock, buckeye pod, nightshade, oleander.)

    GE 6:5 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to flood the earth to eliminate mankind. All living things including plants, animals, women and innocent children are also exterminated. (Note: This is like burning down a house to rid it of mice.)

    GE 7:19-20 The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits (twenty plus feet) above the highest mountains.(Note: This would require steady, worldwide rainfall at the rate of about 6 inches per minute, 360 inches per hour, 8640 inches per day--for 40 days and nights--so as to cover the entire earth with an endless ocean 5 miles deep, thus burying 29,000 ft. Mt. Everest under 22 ft. of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Did Noah take soundings? And where has all this water gone?)

    GE 3:14-16 God curses the serpent, Eve, and Adam for what they have done. (Note: This is inconsistent with God's omniscience; God should have known full well, ahead of time, what the outcome would be. Since God created the three as well as the Tree of Knowledge, he is ultimately responsible for the Fall.)

    LE 14:49-53 The cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird. 

    NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master. 

    2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slain in a single battle. (Note: This is more than were lost in any single battle of World War II, and even exceeds the number of deaths that resulted from the dropping of the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.) 

    etc etc etc 

    Now why should anybody believe in this god of clear insanity? 
    Your interpretations of a book written by men have nothing to do with God, and you are a fool for believing that science is infallible. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1135 Pts

    Furthermore, the amount of time and energy you spend attacking the Bible and God shows your insecurities about them. That's right, I see you.
    @awaketowhere

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • God does exist, and the debate should be held in a more open-minded state considering more religions like Judaism and others.
    SuperSith89
  • Please do note half the verses in his debates are not interpretations from any bible I know.  The whole plants for meat verse should be plants for food.  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1135 Pts
    edited June 2017
    @SuperSith89

    I wouldn't worry with him too much, he's obviously trolling and doesn't deserve the attention. It's ok to stand up for your beliefs, but sometimes, like when it falls on deaf or dumb ears, you just have to let it go. I don't think anyone here agrees with anything he says, so he has zero influence, unless you give him your attention. Just let his debates fall off the page. I've proved intelligent design, and he chooses to ignore it.
    melanielustPowerPikachu21
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat He's not a troll, sadly, and I honestly pity him.  I have the joy of waking up each morning with this simple peace.  This knowledge that God has set out the day before me and I'll do my best to enjoy it that way.  This man lives every day with hatred in his heart and I just can't imagine what that is like and would rather not imagine it.  
    melanielust
  • @dropout Really? god exists? Then you go right ahead and you prove that this god of yours exists right now because no one else can. Not one person that has ever existed has ever been able to also. Open-minded. Are you serious? Your non existent god is the most closed-minded nothingness the world has ever seen. Have you ever read your bible? Clearly not. Because that's the most closed-minded diatribe ever written. 
    Erfisflat
  • @dropout
    Pointing out considering other religions? We all know there's only one unity of monotheistic people believing in one Abrahamic God that will go to heaven. Those are the people that accept Jesus as the way, that believe in his life,death and resurrection, that accept him as a messiah and many sites have stated Jesus is the only way. Even the major sinners can go to heaven as long as they are not a morally good atheist.

    https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/28794/do-people-who-commit-major-sins-after-accepting-jesus-go-to-heaven
    Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washedyou were sanctifiedyou were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11, NIV)

    There are some tough things to read and analyse in the Bible, even in the Quran or any religious text which is why I've always preferred scouting original scriptures which my christian friends' parents have connections to.

    Some are seemingly evil and questionable if we replace 'God' with 'a man':

     A man commanded Moses to talk to the rock so that water may flow.
    Moses did not follow and instead tapped the rock twice so a man banned him from ever entering Jerusalem along with most people of his nation.

    Simply God isn't a man and this way of comparative logic isn't enough to convince people to see God in a political and judgemental perspective. What are God's social qualities that separates him from a man when we were made in his image and likeness? The three omnis? I see them as debunked by free will.

    @awaketowhere
    Try to explain things in a much formal way. I've said the same things you did only to religious teachers and even though I beat them such that they were silenced, I still got in trouble, a few offences were filed, couple of unnecessary slips.  I mean they should credit me for using my logic and education to question religion but no, I even got the "I'll pray for you" from the principal! He didn't really help me calm my hormones down and so I ended up chatting formally against prayer. That's the day I learned to seperate my religious argument styles from between my classmates and people with high authority. Gladly I transferred school so only my present classmates know.

    These aren't just conversations but debates. I'm not gonna be a hypocrite and just admit that yeah in conversations I've mumbled that a few verses are absurd but certainly not in a formal discussion platform.
  • @Imbster Don't bother with awaketonowhere.  He is hateful and takes no opinion other than his own.  Even if you agree with him, he will still trash you.  It's who he is.  
    melanielust
  • SuperSith89SuperSith89 124 Pts
    edited June 2017
    @Imbster Check this out for your point on free will: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/free-will-in-the-bible/

    I don't see how it disproves Him as the three omnis.  He can be all those, but still desire to give us choice over controlling us with no choice.  He can still know all, see all, and be everywhere at once.  He loves us enough to allow us to choose, because He knows that a life without choice is a poor one.  Would you rather live in this world or in one where you have no freedom to choose what to do.  That does allow for evil, but that was not God's intention.  Lucifer/the Devil corrupted the world through Adam and Eve's sin.  God told them the consequences, being spiritual and not physical death since they lost their connection to God, and He told them what not to do.  We are now allowed to be connected to God through Jesus now.    
  • @Imbster Don't tell me what to do.K? E specially when I do know a lot more about god, the bible and religion than you ever will. 
    I've been doing this for 40+ years and have talked with roughly 25,000 on this very subject. If you show intelligence and have an education then there's room  for a debate. If not and you pretend like you know what you are squawking about and thus invent excuses and profess to have a knowledge on a subject and you really don't, then you leave yourself either to be ignored or to be belittled, degraded and dehumanized as obvious as the electron painted smiley faces on rolls of t.p that SuperSith89 blatantly is and he knows it. And he has no genuine friends either. Wow does it show. 
    Getting into trouble isn't that much of a big thing because you haven't seen the worst of the worst. You have no idea what true suffering is. I could tell you some true stories that would turn your soul black. And then I would tell you all about me. You've seen nothing. Squat. Ziltch. 
    Gladly I'm happy the way I am with death right around the corner. 
  • @awaketowhere

    ....I've said repeatedly that I'm an atheist, I don't think I will ever believe in a god. Where did that confusion come from?
  • @awaketowhere- I think you're totally missing the whole point of religion.  It doesn't need to be true.  The Bible is not a textbook.  It was never intended to be, it is the error of fundamentalists that insist on the bible being true.  That doesn't mean they're right!  The fact is most religious people are not fundamentalists!  Atheism assumes that they are!   The Lord speaks in parables- these are stories intended to teach a common ethical paradigm or moral system.  You don't need factual stories to teach that.  You atheist types are all wasting our time with this intellectual masturbation! Science deals in factual discovery and religion is just a blue collar, working class way to discuss ethics and philosophy without the benefit of a college education!  You can even teach ethics to the illiterate if you do it in the context of religion.  The fact is science without religion is every bit as dangerous as religion without science.  The two are complimentary parts of the same whole.  Science teaches us HOW the universe works, religion teaches us the VALUE of the human place in the universe. These two disciplines do not oppose each other- unless you're a fundamentalist and they're such a small radical part of the religious world that everyone thinks they're nuts anyway! 
    melanielustm_abusteitImbster
  • @brainteaser Well if the Bible isn't true, then why is it you should trust what it says on human value when evolution and the big bang place us on a miniscule planet that happened by chance?  If the Bible wasn't true, what point would human value be with science?  In evolution, we used to be monkeys and happened to have a gigantic jump, but we will just be another creature some future evolution learns of.  No value there.  In creation, we are made by God and in His image.  We are given dominion over the animals and Earth.  We are also dearly loved by God through the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.  If the Bible is true, human value means something.  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1135 Pts
    Anti-theists are among the most pathetic human beings on this plane. Especially the old ones. If I were still atheist, I sure wouldn't spend what little time I had left picking petty arguments about something that can't be proved or disproved empirically. Do these people have nothing better to do with what little time they have left? Why bother people about their belief system, when theirs is no more believable?
    PowerPikachu21
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • I agree with @brainteaser . I'm an atheist but find the way many other atheists act to be deplorable. All belief systems should be respected as long as those systems don't infringe upon other's rights.
  • m_abusteitm_abusteit 100 Pts
    edited June 2017
    all of these claims are not as half as retarded as the other anti-science claims it makes like the earth coming before the stars which is debunked before the big bang. Creating everything in six days which is also debunked by the big bang. We were created from mud and the rib of some guy because he was lonely and wanted some action in some magical paradise before all animals in heaven  debunked by evolution. Earth is ten thousand - sixteen thousand years old and the rest of the universe is the ten thousand years and humans are even younger using the creation story in genesis and the genealogies from adam to jesus in genesis 5 and 11 and in luke and matthew first chapter. These ridicoulous young ages have obviously been debunked by dating some rocks and trees and glaciers that dat to 3.8 billion years. One tree called pando is literally 80,000 years old. How can one tree be older than the earth lol? also ridicolous flat earth and there being an edge to the earth and the earth being flat and the falling off the earth or the edge. also geocentric claims. all of this has been disproved multiple times because humans have sent rovers to mars and took pictures of earth which is not flat (sphere) and has planets between itself and the sun. What else does the bible say? oh the flood which we know did not happen because there were civilizations during noah like the Native Americans, Chinese and Mesopotamian which were flourishing at that time. These are just the tip of the iceberg my friend and they apply to almost all religions. However, most people will deny all the empirical evidence and attach to fairytales because they have become too emotionally attached to it, brainwashed since childhood, got lucky in life and need a reason for this luck or they hit a low in life and need someone when they are going thru hardships. We all know that emotions is not a rational thing to hold on to when making decisions about life and death and heaven and hell. In fact, all followers of all religions claim they have a distinct emotional attachement solely to their religion which means it is right. This obviously means they are all wrong because they all cant be right. The luck and the low in life causing them to choose gods is very ironic because they go about choosing different gods and usually the god of the people around them or the god of their culture. God is not something they could prove rationally. I am pretty sure the whole thing with religions just started as a way to control the masses because some people wanted to be rulers over other people and they saw religion as a good unifying force and that they woould be the prophet or whatever and they would have that authority as a prophet. Look at Muhammad, the guy was a dirt-poor shepherd in arabia. Suddenly at the age of 40, he decides to become a prophet, 20 years later after implementing islam by the force of the sword through violent texts calling his followers to convert others like surah 9 verse 29, Muhammmad becomes very powerful and becomes the ruler of the entire arabian peninsula and some other lands like jordan. He becames filthy rich, gets multiple wives and has multiple houses as revealed in surah 33 verse 53. That is because whatever money and booty muslims gained from war and invasions, muhammad would take an entire fifth of it to himself in Sahih al-Bukhari 3124.
  • @m_abusteit  How does the big bang debunk anything?  It's just another theory, like creation.  I also find any dating method to be ludicrous.  How in the world can you trust a system saying things are billions and millions of years old anyways?  There is way too much that could have happened to have affected what we perceive as millions of years.  God created a fully mature Earth for it to run and thus of course it looked like trees are millions of years old.  That would be the age, but God matured it like the universe with the stars.  
  • I mean God created Adam at a mature age.  Couldn't he with the Earth?  

    Genesis 1:12 "The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds"

    Trees already had fruit on them in one day during creation.  

    Genesis 1:14-19 "14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times,and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."

    Stars already gave light to the Earth.  Matured at creation.

    "If a scientific observer today, with no knowledge of Adam's creation, traveled back in time to Day Seven and tried to determine Adam's age (or the age of a rock, or the age of a star), how could it be done? The scientist would rely on today's human growth rates (or rates of radioactive decay, or the speed of light), and calculate how long it would take for this state of maturity to develop, and would come to a wrong conclusion." - icr.org http://www.icr.org/article/did-god-create-with-appearance-age/

    The Bible is not a science book, nor a history book, but when it refers to either it is 100% accurate.  
    Evidence
  • http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ;
    Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 

    "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
    Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29

    "He rested."
    Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

    Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

    "And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

    Adam finally dies -- 930 years after eating from the tree of knowledge, contrary to God's false prophecy that Adam would die the day that he ate the forbidden fruit (2:17). 5:5 

    God decides to kill all living things because the human imagination is evil. Later (8:21), after he kills everything, he promises never to do it again because the human imagination is evil. Go figure 6:5 

    God repents. 6:6-7 

    "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens."
    How did Noah know which animals were "clean" and "unclean" to God? (It wasn't defined until Leviticus was written.) 7:2 

    Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11 

    "I do set my bow in the cloud."
    God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He makes a deal with the animals, promising never to drown them all again. He even puts the rainbow in the sky so that whenever he sees it, it will remind him of his promise so that he won't be tempted to do it again. (Every time God sees the rainbow he says to himself: "Oh, yeah.... That's right. I promised not to drown the animals again. I guess I'll have to find something else to do."). 
    But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13

    God says, "Let us go down ..." Maybe he hasn't been talking to himself; maybe there is more than one of them up there. Well, however many there may be, they all decide to come down to confuse the builders by confounding human language and scattering them [humans] abroad. 11:7

    The Jews were God's chosen people. So why did God have them enslaved for 400 years? n15:13 

    https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;
    GE 1:3-514-19 There was light ("night and day") before there was a sun. (Note: If there were no sun, there would be no night or day. Also, light from the newly created heavenly bodies seems to have reached the earth instantaneously though it now takes thousands or millions of years.)

    GE 1:12, 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.

    GE 1:29 Every plant and tree which yield seed are given to us by God as good to eat. (Note: This would include poisonous plants such as hemlock, buckeye pod, nightshade, oleander.)

    GE 6:5 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to flood the earth to eliminate mankind. All living things including plants, animals, women and innocent children are also exterminated. (Note: This is like burning down a house to rid it of mice.)

    GE 7:19-20 The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits (twenty plus feet) above the highest mountains.(Note: This would require steady, worldwide rainfall at the rate of about 6 inches per minute, 360 inches per hour, 8640 inches per day--for 40 days and nights--so as to cover the entire earth with an endless ocean 5 miles deep, thus burying 29,000 ft. Mt. Everest under 22 ft. of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Did Noah take soundings? And where has all this water gone?)

    GE 3:14-16 God curses the serpent, Eve, and Adam for what they have done. (Note: This is inconsistent with God's omniscience; God should have known full well, ahead of time, what the outcome would be. Since God created the three as well as the Tree of Knowledge, he is ultimately responsible for the Fall.)

    LE 14:49-53 The cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird. 

    NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master. 

    2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slain in a single battle. (Note: This is more than were lost in any single battle of World War II, and even exceeds the number of deaths that resulted from the dropping of the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.) 

    etc etc etc 

    Now why should anybody believe in this god of clear insanity? 

    @awaketowhere ; "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
    Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29 "

    Poisoned plants to eat Lol, .. and oh yeah, don't forget the air to breath, .. Chem-Trails, how could God create these airplanes that poison our air, my, my how reckless God is, right?



    @awaketowhere "He rested."
    Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

    Umm, yeah, have you seen the work that went into even a simple thing like the lily we find scattered in the fields? Man cannot even create a simple apple seed, yet he knows everything that the seed is made up of, yet all man can do is turn it poisonous (GMO) to cause cancer in people.
    And don't forget that God gets jealous too, and angry, sad! He hates, and He loves, He punishes and then repents, .. and He created evil too did you know that? Now which of His creation poses all these characteristics, I give you three guesses?

    @awaketowhereCain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

    Who told you there were only two other people alive, .. the Pope, who worships Lucifer as his god? Lol.
    After God created Eve, what did he tell them to do?
    Now how long were they in the Garden before God introduced "time" to them, .. you know, the countdown to their death because they disobeyed God!?
    I mean if you're going to attack the Bible, don't do it from a religious perspective like the Christian Religion, do it with an understanding of the Bible. Seek, knock like I have all my life and God WILL open your eyes and give you understanding my friend! Everything you claim here is from a religious perspective, .. why do you think religion requires "blind faith" for you to be a member in good standing? Yep, because they don't have the answers, but need your money.

    @awaketowhere"And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

    See what I mean? Now if you search as to how long Adam and Eve was in the Garden "before they sinned" you would understand where Cain's wife came from!?
    Genesis 5:5
    Adam was 930 years old when he died, that's counting from the time God punished them and condemned them to death. Before that, there was no aging, only maturing for children, so there could have been millions in Eden, who had to scatter outside after the fall.

    The Bible only mentions births that are significant to our History. If Adam would not have sinned, no births would of been "significant", since we would have all lived in eternity till we filled the earth. This is why only the first children born outside of the Garden is mentioned, Cain and Abel.
    What happens after we would have filled the earth with humans? I'm sure God had some awesome plan for us, maybe that New Earth and New Heaven which is still in His plan, .. well, according to the Bible anyways, right?

    NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master.


    So God should have chosen a Raven or a parrot to wake the Prophet up with?
    If dumb birds can talk, I'm sure making a donkey talk was not too much a task for God, .. I mean He did create the donkey.
    It's shutting the donkey up that's the problem (referring to Shrek the movie lol.)





    If you want me to answer any other issues you have with the Bible, by all means by Gods grace I can. Not because I'm smart, but because I'm simple, weak, foolish, lowly and beaten, so God can make a donkey like me to talk too. Go figure why God chooses the simple fisherman and sheepherders to reveal things to, .. right??
    Erfisflat
  • @Evidence  I'd like to say you are in for a world of hurt with this dude.  He will not listen to anything.

    Now.  Some problems I saw with your arguments.  Being a Christian myself, I should point these out.  

    1: God did not create evil, the devil and we did.  He cannot have anything to do with evil.  This is confirmed when he says everything was good after each day in creation.  Him saying that wasn't just Him liking it, but affirming that evil was not created by Him.

    2:  The verse on plants being for meat is actually translated to food and the KJV is the only version that uses the word meat, though it is in the footnotes that says it is food as the true translation.  

    3: God resting does not mean He was tired.  He did not grow weary like us, but He was just done.  He was finished and went to watch as His creation went on.  This is further explained here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/why-did-god-need-to-rest-on-the-seventh-day

    I was going to counter your idea that Cain and Abel were not the first born, but I can see that as a highly viable answer.  Maybe not, but I am not a master of theology yet, though that is my major.  
  • @Evidence  I'd like to say you are in for a world of hurt with this dude.  He will not listen to anything.

    Now.  Some problems I saw with your arguments.  Being a Christian myself, I should point these out.  

    1: God did not create evil, the devil and we did.  He cannot have anything to do with evil.  This is confirmed when he says everything was good after each day in creation.  Him saying that wasn't just Him liking it, but affirming that evil was not created by Him.

    2:  The verse on plants being for meat is actually translated to food and the KJV is the only version that uses the word meat, though it is in the footnotes that says it is food as the true translation.  

    3: God resting does not mean He was tired.  He did not grow weary like us, but He was just done.  He was finished and went to watch as His creation went on.  This is further explained here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/why-did-god-need-to-rest-on-the-seventh-day

    I was going to counter your idea that Cain and Abel were not the first born, but I can see that as a highly viable answer.  Maybe not, but I am not a master of theology yet, though that is my major.  


    Love you my dear friend, but your problem is that you, just as I have most of my life having been raised in the Christian Religion, is that we were brainwashed to see in the Bible only what our religion tells us to see.

    1. Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    2. Sorry, but can you show me where I mentioned 'meat' for plants? Thanks.

    3. Ah yes, thank you for pointing that out for me, "abstained" would be fine also, but I still think God rested. Just think about it for a minute, even though God doesn't have a physical body, He did get tired of us continually sinning, where He was going to destroy man altogether. If God is patient, then He must get tired too, don't you think so? Not physically as I said, but mentally, emotionally.
    We were created in His image, remember? So here is what we share with our Creator, and I don't think we could poses any extra attribute that God doesn't have!?

    His heart aches
    He gets angry
    He takes revenge
    He waits patiently
    He gets sad,
    jealous,
    hungry (for a little praise from ungrateful man, or He even enjoys the smell of an animal sacrifice that was given from a pure heart)
    He gets lonely
    His heart rejoices
    He can run out of patience, .. everything we have is from Him in whose image we were created.

    I have debated a lot of "Masters in theology" Christians with a doctorate, starting from the inventors of the Christian Religion "Catholics", to every major denomination thereof, and so far the best they could do was try to make me "agree to disagree", which I as a Believer, a Disciple of Jesus Christ could never do.

    Remember that the pagan many-god worshipping Constantine who knew nothing of the Biblical Infinite Creator created the Christian Religion, and made our Infinite God into the only thing he and the Roman population knew, into many gods, what the Christians call the Trinity-gods. The JW's make him out to be their own personal god, and Jesus a Cherubim, some winged Heavenly Creature, not who he really is; the Son of God Word.

    Theos is Greek for god, and I can assure you that the Greeks didn't mean the One True Invisible and Only Possible Infinite and Eternal Creator. Think about it my friend, what does our Infinite and Eternal Creator have to do with the gods the Greeks studied in theology (study of one or more gods)?

    Is our Creator one of the gods in theology (created gods, idols etc.)?
    No.
    God is the Creator, not of His creation.

    Is God some deity?
    The Christian gods are most definitely deities (deified men, idols, stars, ideas) who live in the supernatural realm.

    And who contacts these deities in the supernatural realm? Guess who? That's right, Christian mediums, or Diviners who got their degrees in Divination from accredited Schools of Divinity. Those in Religion who got their doctorates in divination, which you know (especially if you are going for your masters in theology) that it is an abomination to God to contact deities (demons) who rule from the supernatural realm.

    Our Infinite and Eternal Creator is One, the Only Possible One, for Infinite is borderless and timeless, so there cannot be another besides Him by definition.

    If you have an open mind (which is next to impossible to have if you belong in a religion, especially the Christian Religion), I can reveal to you our Creator.

    If there is ONE thing that I say that I cannot back up with wholesome unadulterated Scripture verses, you can deny what I said and call me a liar and a blasphemer. But I will also tell you this, that you will never find our Creator in any Greek theos/god/gods, especially not through divination from any supernatural being!

    The ONLY thing true, and does good for people in the "Christian Religion" is the Bible. Most of what the religion teach is good, and true to its original definition, but their gods are NOT the Bible God the One and Only Infinite Creator. So what did Jesus say to those billions who will come before Him:

    Mathew 7:21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    But to deify our Creator God and His dear Son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into some pagan sun-god, a deity who resides in the supernatural realm who divines through Christian mediums/Diviners is the ultimate sin, it is blasphemy of the unforgivable kind against God the Holy Spirit.
    Look my dear friend:

    * God is Holy and Spirit, whose home and throne is in Heaven, and "reveals" His will/message to His chosen Disciples through revelation.

    * The Christian Religions gods are deities who reside in the supernatural realm, who divine their lies and half truth to diviners and mediums through divination.

    Look it up, it's all there in the Bible, just have to step out of Religion long enough to see it, which is what I did.

    Warning!: (better count the cost first!)
    For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

    (the cost I paid where I was excommunicated, and now hated and shunned by friends and family treated as a blasphemer):

    If any man come to me, and hate (deny) not his father, and mother (and their religion and gods), and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

    Erfisflat
  • @SuperSith89
    Job also proves God has something to do with evil. Satan can't do much without God's permission that's always the moral lesson from the book of Job
  • @Evidence  You may have taken what I said about theology way out of context.  I merely meant stuff like what Ken Hamm does on Answers in Genesis.  Otherwise, good points.  I was pointing out the meat thing because awaketonowhere is taking that way too literally.    
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1135 Pts
    @Evidence  I'm glad my message about this beautiful, unmoving realm we reside on reached your mind and ears first, I'm glad to have you as a friend. It's often difficult to understand your message, but I am listening. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Evidence  You may have taken what I said about theology way out of context.  I merely meant stuff like what Ken Hamm does on Answers in Genesis.  Otherwise, good points.  I was pointing out the meat thing because awaketonowhere is taking that way too literally.    

    Yes my friend, I understand what you were doing, and I agree with you on that. But what I did was that I took this opportunity to point out something mind boggling that was revealed to me, which by the way has eternal consequences, our souls depend on this revelation, .. so please hear me out? I stake my life on what I say, just as millions have by the hands of the Christian Jesuit Warriors (burned at the stake, beheaded, tortured to death) after Constantine created his new religion!

    The Lord revealed to me (who else would do this?) that the word theology been used out of context for 1,700 years (since the invention of the Christian Religion and its gods) so what I'm praying and hoping to do is put it back in context and share it with those who study the Bible first, and then to those who, .. (because of how religion destroyed the Bibles/God and His Sons reputation) have lost any faith in the Bible, just like my dear friend @Earfisflat here has.

    Look, .. just as the Jesuits changed Gods created heaven and earth which is obviously flat, to a globe, an insignificant speck flying through the vastness of some invented 'expanding vacuum' simply by putting globes in every classroom (even in Ming China) and a science fiction fairytale to back it up, .. the Catholic/Jesuit Religion also changed our Infinite Creator (Bible God) into just another insignificant speck, a mythological idea amongst the tens of thousands of gods that are worshipped in the world!

    I know it is difficult to understand especially if you are going for your masters in theology, the last thing a Jesuit run theology college is going to do is tell you that theology, including the entire 'Christian Religions' have nothing to do with an invisible, Infinite Spirit that no one can, nor has ever seen, so people throughout the ages, that's for the past 1,700 years simply accepted Bible God as just another god that the Greeks, Romans, and the rest of the world worshipped. And I'm sure you know who is really being worshipped in the name of all those gods, right? THIS, is what I am hoping to open yours and everyone else's eyes to!

    I KNOW what they taught us, that;
    The word “theology” comes from two Greek words that combined mean “the study of God.” Christian theology is simply an attempt to understand God as He is revealed in the Bible.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-theology.html

    But are they really teaching you God who is revealed in the Bible? Or "their version of" God in the Bible? Just like when children go to their science class to learn about the earth, and instead are taught the spinning Globe Earth!

    _____

    To be Continued for those interested to know who their Creator is, who they are, and what lies we been taught for 1,700 years!
  • @Evidence
    Tell me more. You're on to some religious revelation I'm not gonna hear from the popes nor bishops.
  • @Evidence I'm actually going to be studying it at a Christian college that has some very strong morals when regarding the Bible.  Not sure about their stance on the Holy Spirit, but they definitely teach the true God of the Bible there.  The people running that school have a genuine care for the students and we could feel that on visit day.  

    I 100% agree that theology has been taken out of context, but I'll be going at it in a more Apologetics route and using the knowledge to teach others.  I look forward to learning more at this college and have been praying that the money will come since I only have one scholarship left to be announced that would pay my way for one year.  
  • PLEASE, .. please, if you have any intention to know our Creator, take another look at the god/gods they are selling us as "bible God"! From the same article from gotquestions.org

    I KNOW what they taught us, that; The word “theology” comes from two Greek words that combined mean “the study of God.” Christian theology is simply an attempt to understand God as He is revealed in the Bible.

    gotquestions.org - The study of theology, then, is nothing more than digging into God’s Word to discover what He has revealed about Himself. When we do this, we come to know Him as Creator of all things, Sustainer of all things, and Judge of all things.

    This is fine, and true, that is who our Creator God is, only we have to remember who God "created all things" by and through, .. right? And who did God create all things by and through? This is very crucial!

    Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

    15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

    So we have the Father, the Infinite and Eternal Spirit who beget/created His Son Word (John 1-) who was the "firstborn over all creation", For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

    So God created all things how? Through His Son Word correct? God is NOT his son Word, God is God.

    Now look what the Christian Religion teaches who God is (s


    gotquestions.org - The study of theology, then, is nothing more than digging into God’s Word to discover what He has revealed about Himself. When we do this, we come to know Him as Creator of all things, Sustainer of all things, and Judge of all things.
    He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end of all things. When Moses asked who was sending him to Pharaoh, God replied “I AM WHO I AM” (Exodus 3:14). The name I AM indicates personality. God has a name, even as He has given names to others. The name I AM stands for a free, purposeful, self-sufficient personality. God is not an ethereal force or a cosmic energy. He is the almighty, self-existing, self-determining Being with a mind and a will—the “personal” God who has revealed Himself to humanity through His Word, and through His Son, Jesus Christ.

    God is NOT Alpha and Omega, because Infinite Spirit/Mind is borderless/boundless, without beginning nor end, He IS Infinite. But the Son Word is Alpha and Omega, .. He IS the Beginning and the End of all Gods Creation.

    Why?

    Because God created all things through him and for him, so all creation begins with Gods Son Word, and ends, or when God creates the last thing, will be through his son Word. Look how sneakily this religion turned the Creator into the created!?

    - When Moses asked who was sending him to Pharaoh, God replied “I AM WHO I AM” (Exodus 3:14). The name I AM indicates personality

    No, "I Am" does not indicate a personality, look what 'indicates' personality:

    Personality: the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character. "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging"

    "I Am" indicates consciousness/awareness you sly Jesuit deceivers! Which makes perfect sense, because Infinite (not to be confused with infinity) is conscious, so our God is THE: "Infinite and Eternal Conscious Mind/Spirit", .. who through His Son Word, who is also a system of rules and laws how God created everything by.

    It is the year 2017, and we my friends have come to the End of all of Gods creation regarding man, the heavens and the earth, where next is Judgement.

    We have reached the fulfillment of Daniel 12:4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” where man now creates virtual worlds, with virtual people without souls of course (we have to control them), so we can now all see how God has created all things, .. through programming laws.

    Just as we are mind in a body, God created a body He used to create all things by and through, who also has His own free will, His Son Word, who is also our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

    We could never have understood this until this New computer Age, which fulfills the Last Days where no one can deny what Daniel said, that; knowledge has increased! man has now become a creator of worlds.

    Satan of course continues on his quest to: "Be like the Most High", so he is now trying to download a human mind, to a disk/memory stick so he could put a soul into a robot:


    But of course, Satan has no power over Gods Spirit, so he tries to fake it; (see the "Blue Brain Project") by mimicking a mind, which is no different than a computer chess game.

    So you see my friends, about 1,700 years ago the Christian Religion that was Created by Constantine and run by the Catholic Church took over the Bible, and reinterpreted our Infinite Creator and turned Him into just another created being, a god like any other gods. And to study godsss, they have dedicated "theology"

    Timothy 3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!


    1 Corinthians 2 1-5


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