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Should debate.org members switch to debateisland?

Opening Argument

edited December 2017 in Technology
The opinions and polls sections of DDO are broken, nobody can use them, so yeah. People can only use forums and debates currently. DDO is basically a giant bug.

In the debates section, I've seen some pretty terrible ("Black rape victims who complain should be forced to work in the sex industry"), and stupid ("morality= survival truth" and basically everything by vi_Spex, "is it gay for a guy to wear girl clothes"). The debates section is extremely low quality.

I also rarely see any debates getting voted on. Infact the majority of debates get abandoned before the voting period. The ones that get into the voting period? They usually don't get votes and when they do it's usually by the debators friends who they had waiting to vote for them, or they just get removed instantly because "I don't like how you did this little little little little little thing blah blah blah" and alot of the times, people won't even try to win debates by arguing and doing research but instead by getting their friends to vote for them as already said, or reporting opposing votes. 
I used to be friends with someone who organized vote bombings all the time. Also, the most viewed debate on the entire site is a troll debate about a tv show character. 

Most of the activity on the site comes from the forums section. Forums that aren't just spam and games such as Philosophy lack activity. In more active forums that aren't just spam and games, it's usually the same exact people in them.

And you know about what I said about whiteflame? In general, the moderation is corrupt. Head moderator airmax will ban people for very small things while allowing active trolls to roam freely.

Debate.org is dying, and now many top members are abandoning their accounts. It went from actual discussion to a bunch of trolls and spammers. 

However there is still one thing good about debate.org: The account deactivation screen. 

 
inc4tErfisflatPowerPikachu21randalislander507comey_testifyaarongWoodenWoodfea
  1. Should debate.org members switch to debateisland?

    20 votes
    1. Yes
      80.00%
    2. No
      20.00%
Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 



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Status: Open Debate


Arguments

  • Are you that guy from debate.org who keeps advertising DebateIsland? Until this site gets a 1v1 debate, I'll continue using debate.org. And I see you know nothing about some people voting without a good reason.

    Anyways, starting with the users. There's nothing wrong with vi_spex. I actually like his argument style, though he isn't able to clearly show his views with how he's doing it. And there are a few people who are racist. But in no way is DebateIsland a prohibition of this. User awaketowhere (backwardseden on DDO) came here and started hating, so there's nothing saying other bad users are unable to make accounts.

    On to your argument about votes. I agree that there's a lack of votes, but who's to say there won't be a lack when this site starts 1v1 debating. And you obviously aren't familiar with the fact that votes often vote because the voter just believes that person has the correct side. That's where whiteflame comes in. He looks into a reported vote and determines how their Reason For Decision judges the debate. Who had the better arguments? Why are these arguments sufficient enough to overpower the other side's? If you take the time to actually look at the votes, you can see that they suck. Which vote would you want your opponent to have: "Debater A had such good arguments!", or "Debater A showed that abortion isn't really murder, as they've proved that the actual time of a human's life comes after the fetus becomes a baby. Debater B didn't touch on this subject, just resorting to random quotes which didn't support his side." Believe it or not, a lot of votes are more like the first example. Even if a voter voted for me, if they don't actually talk about my arguments, I report it so whiteflame can examine it.

    Even though I have an account on DebateIsland, I did not 'switch' sites. I still very much like Debate.org and I'm still loyal to this day. Also, there's no point in advertising a site inside of the site you're advertising.
    SilverishGoldNovaErfisflatuzairmahmud
  • inc4tinc4t 162 Pts
    @PowerPikachu21, the user you mention was actually given a temporary ban on this site and stopped since.  So, I think debateIsland admin did a great job to deal with that issue and maintain civil debater community.  
    I cannot speak to your preference for 1-1 debating, and cannot comment how that would work here if available.  However, the way it's implemented at DDO is not working well.  I personally prefer casual formally as it provides flexibility and you still have polls for voting.  Actually winning or losing is not what's important to me, but I am more interested in quality of debating, which is mostly lacking at DDO.
    I agree with @SilverishGoldNova
    SilverishGoldNovaErfisflat
  • edited July 2017
    @PowerPikachu21 Just because I don't like debate.org and stated that on debateisland doesn't mean I'm some advertiser. By your logic you are an advertiser for debate.org, and why would I advertise debateisland on debateisland?. Also, I'm not sure how anyone could call vi_spex a good debater. All he does is spam the website with terrible debates with horrible arguments like "doing math is slaying dragons". Also, you're just asking why I'm criticizing debate.org but not debateisland features that haven't even been implemented yet.  By the way, speaking of an abortion debate, I voted on one once and I gave Con sources points, and I showed that Pro used extremely biased sources in attempt to support his claims, but whiteflame removed it because I "insufficiently explained sources", while allowing obviously biased votes in favor of Pro to stay.
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1117 Pts
    edited July 2017
    Are you that guy from debate.org who keeps advertising DebateIsland? Until this site gets a 1v1 debate, I'll continue using debate.org. And I see you know nothing about some people voting without a good reason.

    Anyways, starting with the users. There's nothing wrong with vi_spex. I actually like his argument style, though he isn't able to clearly show his views with how he's doing it. And there are a few people who are racist. But in no way is DebateIsland a prohibition of this. User awaketowhere (backwardseden on DDO) came here and started hating, so there's nothing saying other bad users are unable to make accounts.

    On to your argument about votes. I agree that there's a lack of votes, but who's to say there won't be a lack when this site starts 1v1 debating. And you obviously aren't familiar with the fact that votes often vote because the voter just believes that person has the correct side. That's where whiteflame comes in. He looks into a reported vote and determines how their Reason For Decision judges the debate. Who had the better arguments? Why are these arguments sufficient enough to overpower the other side's? If you take the time to actually look at the votes, you can see that they suck. Which vote would you want your opponent to have: "Debater A had such good arguments!", or "Debater A showed that abortion isn't really murder, as they've proved that the actual time of a human's life comes after the fetus becomes a baby. Debater B didn't touch on this subject, just resorting to random quotes which didn't support his side." Believe it or not, a lot of votes are more like the first example. Even if a voter voted for me, if they don't actually talk about my arguments, I report it so whiteflame can examine it.

    Even though I have an account on DebateIsland, I did not 'switch' sites. I still very much like Debate.org and I'm still loyal to this day. Also, there's no point in advertising a site inside of the site you're advertising.
    So by stating his preference and showing his appreciation for the change from broken debates where all a losing user had to do was forfeit, like you did 

    http://www.debate.org/debates/We-should-cut-all-funding-to-NASA/1/

    And they automatically bug the match, ending in what's essentially a tie, he's an advertiser? 
    SilverishGoldNovaPowerPikachu21
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat Plus who would advertise debateisland on debateisland?
    Erfisflat
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • edited July 2017
    i just thought I'd insert this comment 
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • As someone who stumbled across this site via someone else advertising it on the forums I will say this. There needs to be a formal debate category. Also, many of the issues that the original post has with DDO exists with all sites ever. Yes, there will be offensive, sometimes virulent content, but that is not exclusively something that exists with DDO. While I will not list usernames, this sort of trolling and rhetoric exist on this site as well. I will admit that the forfeiting glitch is a problem, and sometime the administrators may seem draconian in their rulings, but what you claimed in regards to the moderation being corrupt and Airmax banning people for no reason needs to be backed up with clear evidence. As far as the format of this site, it seems like a giant forum thread, which is conducive to the airing of general ideas, but switching from DDO feels weird, especially when I got used to the way the other format as a debater in real life and on DDO. I will say this though, the site seems a bit faster, if anything that seems to be a plus. Of course, this is not a post that is meant to offend the creators of the site or the users, just simple observations from someone who used DDO is the past.                                                                                                                                          
    SilverishGoldNova
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1117 Pts
    @blamonkey

    I feel the site is a fresh change. The lack of formal debate formats is not permanent, I'm sure, but I for one don't miss it. The voting method is broken on DDO. If you were lucky enough to get anyone to vote on your debate, chances are they would be removed due to infraction of the sites voting restrictions. On the opposite side of the spectrum, getting a non-biased vote on a refuted truism debate was near impossible, most of the refuted points were ignored.
    SilverishGoldNovarandalislander507SnakesOfferingApples
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • randalrandal 64 Pts
    I don't believe that the site needs formal debates. I love the new Persuade Me debate and Casual debate functionality. Also, love the founder and it's actively developed.
    islander507
  • @blamonkey I don't think debate island needs formal debates
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • DDO is broken I should have won 5 debates, and I didn't because my opponents decided to leave when they saw that they were losing, and as you know there is a glitch that is breaking the forfeit system. Once this site gets 1v1 debates, I'll deactivate my DDO account permanently.

    On a side note the moderator of Debate Island really cares about his site, I messaged him about being excited about using the site and he responded, and asked me if I had any glitches to report, and asked me to message him if I needed anything.

    On the contrary, the DDO moderators, are so about that hands-off approach, that when I first joined I was told that they abandoned the site.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • @SnakesOfferingApples I've already deactivated, some people report they even got their account permenantely deleted. 
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • edited July 2017
    @SnakesOfferingApples Also yeah, as I already said very few debates even get into the voting period because people who saw they were losing just forfeited. Infact, this goes for about 70% of debates. When they do get into the voting period the votes either get removed instantly or are by the debaters friends. 
    SnakesOfferingApples
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • edited July 2017
    @SnakesOfferingApples By the way about the forfeiting there are many more glitches.

    The polls were down for 5 months, and now it seems they're down again along with opinion polls.
    It is impossible for the voting period to end now
    Voting is always glitched
    So are messages
    It takes forever to load a page.
    It frequently goes down temporarily. 

    With all of this in mind, combined with the terrible community, it's obvious that debate.org members are gonna switch to debateisland. I wouldn't be surprised if it shuts down soon. Who knows how much time until all of the members that are still on the site are just trolls and spammers, and then the site shuts down?
    SnakesOfferingApples
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • I disagree.  I prefer that most of the most active users remain on DDO, AWAY FROM ME!  I came here for a reason.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • @Rodinon Well, I'm talking about the few people left who actually want to have a discussion, not trolls, considering that seems to be the majority of the site at this point.
    Rodinon
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • @SilverishGoldNova

    Back at you.  Yes.  The most active users were the worst when I left.
  • @Rodinon Idk, can you expect people to have good behavior on a website run by a bunch of incompetent monkeys. 
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • edited August 2017
    @Rodinon My prediction for debate.org is that soon it will be left with nothing but a bunch of trolls, and eventually it will become so buggy that even the most basic, essential features like logging in are unusable. 
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • Did you know: debate.org banned many accounts for discussing the pros of debateisland
    Erfisflat
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • One day I really wanted to debate some people then I stumbled upon Debate.org and there are so many god damn problems on that site and I saw some one talk about this site so I just started using it and both sites have things I like, I like Debate.orgs design better but this site is just so much better
    SilverishGoldNovaErfisflat
  • edited September 2017
    One day I really wanted to debate some people then I stumbled upon Debate.org and there are so many god damn problems on that site and I saw some one talk about this site so I just started using it and both sites have things I like, I like Debate.orgs design better but this site is just so much better
    Thats true, they have more features but they're barely useable, the website has been abandoned by the parent company, is filled with trolls, and the moderation is garbage. If they disagree with your post they will ban you or edit it so you look stupid. For a website called "debate".org, "debate".org is way too much like a social network

    My prediction for them is that many of their users will leave, leaving them with nothing but spammers and trolls, and then eventually, it will become so buggy the most basic and essential features will become unusable.
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • One day I really wanted to debate some people then I stumbled upon Debate.org and there are so many god damn problems on that site and I saw some one talk about this site so I just started using it and both sites have things I like, I like Debate.orgs design better but this site is just so much better
    Thats true, they have more features but they're barely useable, the website has been abandoned by the parent company, is filled with trolls, and the moderation is garbage. If they disagree with your post they will ban you or edit it so you look stupid. For a website called "debate".org, "debate".org is way too much like a social network

    My prediction for them is that many of their users will leave, leaving them with nothing but spammers and trolls, and then eventually, it will become so buggy the most basic and essential features will become unusable.
    I see there a few more flat earthers there now that I'm gone
    SilverishGoldNova
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Debate.org would not let me start a debate. I waited but nothing changed. So I came here.
    SilverishGoldNova
  • edited November 2017
    Nope said:
    Debate.org would not let me start a debate. I waited but nothing changed. So I came here.
    Its a very buggy website. I started of with sodahead, but now sodahead is just a click and vote polling service for media companies. I stopped debating for a while, but eventually I went to DDO. But DDO is so buggy now, so I moved to debateisland. Debate.org is not only buggy, but toxic. The debates section is riddled with spam, and when people realize you're winning they can forfeit, which automatically ends the debate in an effective tie, or they will end up resorting to trolling and fallacies. DDO opinions and polls are almost unusuable, and the forums section is filled with flamers who will attack you and disagree with you, or kids playng useless mafia (The majority of the active users spend their time playing mafia to boost their egos). I theorize that many debate.org users will leave DDO for other websites, soon leaving them with just the spammer-troll majority, and that eventually, the site will continue decomposing (like it is currently) until either no page is accessible or logging in is impossible, etc etc, otherwise getting shut down. The head company, Juggle, has a long reputation of buying companies, only to abandon them shortly after. Right now DDO is owned by incompetent monkeys and moderated by biased incompetent monkeys. The only hope for DDO is for Juggle to either start putting more effort into maintaing it, or for them to sell it to someone who will.
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • I use both. In debateisland, you have much more topics to explore. And I think people are more active here. I don't really know. But in debate.org, there is a 1v1 debate, where it can be quite exciting. 
    I think both debate.org and debateisland are great debating websites.
    By the way, I started using debateisland because of someone recommending it in debate.org. Was it you?

  • Ghosty said:
    I use both. In debateisland, you have much more topics to explore. And I think people are more active here. I don't really know. But in debate.org, there is a 1v1 debate, where it can be quite exciting. 
    I think both debate.org and debateisland are great debating websites.
    By the way, I started using debateisland because of someone recommending it in debate.org. Was it you?

    Nope, Infact I honestly suspect that Aaron is the advertiser. What would be the purpose of advertising DebateIsland on Debateisland? I had another DDO account, but I lost access to it recently. In the mean time I made a new account and I was trying to spread some more truth on there, my responses were a bunch of ad hominems.
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • Ghosty said:
     But in debate.org, there is a 1v1 debate, where it can be quite exciting. 


    @Ghosty, not sure if you saw Lincoln Douglas and traditional formal debate options here.  They are both 1v1 debate formats.  Additionally, formalish is another spin, but I like it better since it offers multiple round structure without locking into one person.
    my concern with 1-1 formats, is that often people don't follow through and forfeit debates,which is frustrating.
    SilverishGoldNova
    Live Long and Prosper
  • @agsr, Sorry. Didn't know there were 1v1 debate formats here. But true, debates with multiple people are nice. I actually prefer them over 1v1 debates. Yeah, I've experienced a lot of people who drop out of 1v1 debates. It's very annoying, and it doesn't count as a win or a lose (at least I don' think so)
    agsr
  • Hey,

    I am a switchover from DDO with a DDO account that I rarely use, I also wanted to shed some light onto the matter, because although DDO is disappearing, there does seem to be some general interest in the site. Yes, there were some trash debates, including one that I was in called "Should families go to die after eating their children" Roast Game. However, it only takes a few rational users to accept these kind of debates to raise some interest. When I accepted the debate and had 2 rounds to exploit his theses's, I recieved over 47 comments and 237 views. People truthfully enjoy seeing pointless debates in which a voice of reason attempts to exploit the views of a person whose mind is not in the right place! On DI, there are a TON more rational people, which is really good for the community, and the debate structures are much better than DDO, but that doesn't make DDO bad. I really enjoyed the opinions / polls section that didn't require debate and simply asked for opinion yes or no on an issue presented. I personally think this is what made the site good at its prime, as these opinions could rocket off of other users as well and spark debates of the same nature. 

    It is also quite obvious that DDO is lacking in moderator activity and debate quality, for reasons mentioned by SilverishGoldNova, but most users are rational and love good debates, the problem is that the debates that actually make sense are not viewed as much compared to the debates that are outlandinsh in nature. 

    Finally, I do have a solution to both sides for the voting system. In both accounts, you can leave reasons for your selection of your person, and while organized vote bombing is a problem, winning isn't everything in a debate. It is about sharing views through an objective spectrum and finding out more about the views of others by bouncing arguments off each other. If a person vote bombs you, know that your argument was so good that they had to vote bomb you to keep you from winning, because in that case, you had already won. If a person forfeits you, I would suggest stopping the debate and adding a 3 point bonus for the person who didn't forfeit and vote from there, that way there is still a winner, but it is heavily in favor of the person who didn't forfeit.

    Thanks for your time, and I am loving seeing this community thrive.
    SilverishGoldNova
    A good debate is not judged by bias, but in the context of the debate, where objectivity is key and rationale prevalent. 


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