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Is The earth flat?
in Earth Science

Position: Against
By NopeNope 324 Pts
I will be arguing the earth is not flat.

1.) Acceptance
2.) Augment
3.) Rebuttal
ShortofStatureIndianjoecavalryyolostideSilverishGoldNovanorthsouthkorea



Debra AI Prediction

For
Predicted To Win
61%
Likely
39%
Unlikely

Details +


For:

51% (24 Points)


Against:

49% (23 Points)



Votes: 4


Debate Type: Lincoln-Douglas Debate



Voting Format: Casual Voting

Opponent: SilverishGoldNova

Time Per Round: 48 Hours Per Round


Voting Period: 24 Hours


Affirmative Constructive

Cross Examination - Affirmative

Negative Constructive

Cross Examination - Negative

First Affirmative Rebuttal

The Negative Rebuttal

The Second Affirmative Rebuttal

Voting


Arguments



  • Negative Constructive | Position: For
    edited December 2017
    I accept. Extend these arguments:

    @Nope

    1. Argument 1. NASA admitting to faking images, debunking the "independent alternatives"

    A common "proof" for a globe that I see is "NASA images". For the Earth to be flat, obviously, NASA images have to be faked. And NASA images have been debunked in many ways. 


    Notice here the major discrepancy? We notice the continents shrinking, growing, changing color, etc. 

    And copied and pasted clouds


    We also have NASA directly admitting to faking images


    In this article, we have him directly saying the last real images of the Earth were the moon landings and the blue marble.

    "The last time anyone took a photograph from above low Earth orbit that showed an entire hemisphere (one side of a globe) was in 1972 during Apollo 17."


    When called out for this, globe-Earthers tend to turn to airplane curvature or sometimes, the red bull freefall.


    Since the arguments I post here are only a couple of quick but irrefutable pictures, don't be too hasty to give my opponent conduct points.


    Argument 2. The Chicago Skyline


    It is one of the most compelling arguments that convinced me into a flat Earth. 

    According to the globe model, this should be impossible and Chicago should instead disappear over the horizon but this is not the case. The common explanation is that this is just a mirage, but if you have actually seen a mirage you will know this is not true.


    Argument 3. No curvature

    We are widely told we can see curvature at 35,000 feet. However, there are a number of images showing that this is not the case.

    80K Feet (15.15 Miles): https://i.imgur.com/VyLNeGa.jpg


    4. Flight patterns

    There are many flight patterns that make no sense on a sphere, but they do on a flat earth. First off lets look at antarctica. As we know, these routes do not exist: 


    We are told that we do not go on these routes because it is too cold, and that the planes instruments would freeze, but we are also told that we have gone to places much more frigid than anything expirenced on Earth. So, why shouldn't planes be able to take shorter routes over Antarctica? The "explanation" about planes instruments freezing is more of an excuse than an explanation.



    Then look at this. On a ball earth, during a flight to Johannesburg to Perth, it should be a straight shot over the ocean and we should be able to land for refueling in Mauritus or Madagascar. But instead, most flights will stop in Dubai, Hong Kong, or Malaysia. It should also be a straight shot over the atlantic to go to Johannesburg to Sao Paulo, but many flights instead make a re-feuling in London, which would be impossible on a spherical Earth. 

    5. Proving the geocentric sun.


    This video and afterwards. Oh and theres also an extension to my 80K/121K/317K Feet argument.

    I do NOT expect my opponent to respond to each of these, but to see a response to atleast 1 of them would be nice.

    It'll do with me.

    YW. 
    Erfisflat
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • Cross Examination - Negative | Position: Against
    NopeNope 324 Pts
    edited December 2017
    Good.
    First your model comes in to trobel when explain days.
    Image result for accurate representation of flat earth and sunlight
    This is not how light works. This would require some weird bending of light that goes on explained.

    Second. Hurricanes always spin clockwise in the norther hemisphere and counter clockwise in the southern hemisphere. This is easily explained when the earth is a spinning ball but not win the earth is flat.
    Image result for hurricane rotation on the earth

    Third lunar eclipse reveal the earths shadow as a globe. What would produce a shadow other then the earth. If something came between the earth and the moon we should see it's effects on the stars.

    Fourth of all is tides they fallow the pattern expect when considering the the position of the sun and moon relative to the earth. When the moon and sun are almost in line with the earth the tides as expected are higher then when the moon is 90 from the sun with the earth where the tides are low even through there still is high and low tides.
    Check this site to find how the tides change anywhere in the U.S. http://www.tides.net Notice they are dependent on the moon and sun.

    Fith if the sun were that close we would be burn. Many substance have been tested and heated. By looking at the color of an the heated substance you can tell the temperature. From observing the color of the sun we can gues temperature of the sun.

    How do you explain gravity?

    It does not add up. The earth is round.
    .
    ErfisflatSilverishGoldNova
  • Cross Examination - Negative | Position: Against
    NopeNope 324 Pts
    edited December 2017
    I never leave one of them un responded to. I will respond to all of them.
    "1. Argument 1. NASA admitting to faking images, debunking the "independent alternatives""
    I would not use NASA photos as in arguments as I know most flat earthers think they are fake.

    "We are widely told we can see curvature at 35,000 feet. However, there are a number of images showing that this is not the case."
    We also have a lot of photos showing their is curvature. What makes theis photos reliable and the others not?

    "According to the globe model, this should be impossible and Chicago should instead disappear over the horizon but this is not the case. The common explanation is that this is just a mirage, but if you have actually seen a mirage you will know this is not true."
    This is due to atmospheric refraction. Refraction of light can be observed in water, or through lens.
    Image result for lens and how the bend light
     You can try different curved lens and lens that slow light down to different speeds and you will find a certn rule to redraction. My model predicts the atmosphere bends light in different ways depending on conditions. It is a realy interesting topic that you could prove the rules of your self with different lenses. Mirageh are atmospheric refraction under certain conditions. Given the right conditions atmospheric refraction is perfectly possible. Less dens air refracts air back to more dens air. Many flat earther proofs can easly be explained using atmospheric refraction. Light bends in word because air gets less dens the higher you go.

    "here are many flight patterns that make no sense on a sphere, but they do on a flat earth."
    First How does going places colder then anywhere on earth (not in a plane beacuse planes stay on earth) Mean anything?
    Second are you considering wind direction or supplies. Third plane patterns are prodicted by things like having safty aports to make emrgancy landing wind direction.
    Image result for wind patterns over antarcticaImage result for wind patterns over antarctica
    Why do they go around. Look at the wind maps it just be easyer to go around with the wind then to go over. If going over really is not faster because of wind and is cold and no where to make emergency landing why would you even wan't to? They also like to keep with busy airports. Why do planes not fly over the north pole often? It makes sens to on your model right?  They don't do it because where the earth is flat or round it make no sens.

    "Proving the geocentric sun."
    I believe this image from above shows the problem with that.
    Sun gets closer to the north pole and some how it creates a little circle then creates a big surrounding when it reaches the other side. Light does not work that way.
    I will be awaiting your rebutted to my argument. That is if I did the rounds right. I hope I got it right. : ) 
    ErfisflatSilverishGoldNova
  • Cross Examination - Negative | Position: For
    First off, seasons can work out just fine on a flat Earth. Here are a few examples




    Secondly, the Corolis effect actually proves a flat Earth. Here is a long explanation. 

    Thirdly, Eclipses can be very easily explained. Many flat Earthers believe there is an almost always invisible object in a circuit along with the sun and moon called Rahu.

    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPHmBny3b8zGfIPJwdMSdRwQW21Y8ITz0mLMZ9LqNf1sVCarE8xkiPW77h_B_g05g?key=eUZrcVhvNzBnUFV5TWJVbTY0b0xHMWtjbTNJNERB

    Fourthly, need another video? 

    Fifth, the obvious explanation is the sun is not only smaller and closer than told, but also much cooler in temperature.

    Sixth, heres one last video to explain gravity. 

    Drop a microphone, it falls because it's more dense than the air. If you drop a balloon, it rises because the helium is less dense. Do you get it?

    Re-Rebuttals

    First off, many images and videos allegedly pertaining to show curvature have been proven to simply be fish eye lenses. I am yet to see a legitamate attempta t debunking the 3 I showed.

    Secondly (credit to Erfisflat) My opponent disagrees with the assertion that this is a mirage, but instead asserts that the skyline is raised back into view over the curvature over 1,000 feet, due to refraction of some sort. This has never been observed, so it is a speculative assertion. As a matter of fact, the simple act of filling a glass with water and placing an object behind it to produce said optical refraction shows that just the opposite happens, and the object appears lower and larger than it's true position. This experiment is one that can be done by anyone anywhere at anytime. Since there are tons of water in the atmosphere at any time, in the form of a gas, it is apparent that refraction is happening, which is why we can't see the bottom portion of the skyline, simply because it is magnified and dropped from it's apparent position. The details can be explained and further demonstrated by Rob Skiba on Youtube, (the video is titled atmospheric lensing) one of the many flat earth proponents. With this, I give the floor to con, so that he can give us a somewhat more believable excuse as to why we can see further than we should than the meteorologist.



    http://www.debate.org/photos/albums/1/6/5891/340416-5891-cak63-a.jpg

    Third, my opponent believes these flights do not occur due to windspeed. Are winds like this happening year round?

    Fourth, I already addressed that, theres no point in repeating.

    Erfisflat
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • First Affirmative Rebuttal | Position: For
    @Nope you  there?
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • The Negative Rebuttal | Position: Against

    Seasons: Flat earthers often do a bad job explaining seasons. A common explanation I receive for seasons from a flat earther is that during June the sun goes in a small orbit around the North pole and when it is December the sun goes on a large orbit being closer to the south pole.

    Image result for how do flat earthers explain day and night

    While this may sound reasonable at first it fall apart when you consider the months of December.

    Image result for accurate representation of flat earth and sunlight

    Look at December. In order to cover all the area we know the sun covers the sun light needs to loop around the entire earth and leave a dark spot. Some flat earthers may say light bends like this because of the tempiture. It does not explain why the light goes farther in the cold air of the south pole compared to the cold air of the north pole. Light travels faster in warmer air. Why does the light go farther in the colder air. In a globe earth this is easily explained as the sun always cavers half of the earth and the earths titled axes as it rotates the sun explains seasons.

    SilverishGoldNova
  • The Second Affirmative Rebuttal | Position: For
    This debate has now gone from the flat Earth to how flat Earthers explain seasons. My opponent didn't properly put up the images. But, from the text part, I can imagine my opening is toting the same exact argument and is questioning how flat Earthers can explain seasons. 

    Well, another way seasons can be explained is this:

    The suns circuit changes its pattern of movement to account for seasons. Is that a good enough explanation?
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
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