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Employer Rejects Immigrant Man With Racist Email, Regrets It After Daughter Fires Back

Opening Argument

ale5ale5 225 Pts
edited February 10 in Immigration

Employer Rejects Immigrant Man With Racist Email, Regrets It After Daughter Fires Back

I would definitely fire the HR manager who send this message to the job applicant.  It's ridiculous for a few reasons:
1) It represents the employer in unprofessional way
2) It exposes the employer to a discrimination law suit
3) It's disrespectful to immigrants and non native english speakers

Apparently, this guy who speaks very little language applied for a job, and HR manager send him back an inappropriate response. Daughter posted online and multiple lawayers offered to take a lawsuit case probono. The guy and daughter declined and employer issued an apology, afraid of being suit.

Here is the debate: Does this family have a case to win monetary damages, and if so was it a mistake not to proceed with the lawsuit?  I will take position of pro.  They have clear documentation of discrimination and have a good chance of winning.  Since the offer was pro bono, why not proceed? It was a mistake not to.


Source:
https://shareably.co/immigrant-man-rude-email-job-rejection/
Employer Rejects Immigrant Man With Racist Email, Regrets It After Daughter Fires Back
  1. Should he family proceed with the lawsuit?

    8 votes
    1. Yes
      62.50%
    2. No
      37.50%
It's kind of fun to do the impossible
- Walt Disney



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Arguments

  • I agree that the HR guy didn't use common sense.  HR professionals are supposed to be more sensitive to these type of things.  That said, the applicant was clearly unqualified for the position and doesn't even speak english.  It seems embarrassing for him to even apply.
    As far as a "clear case", I am not so sure.  The letter is a bit off with a smug remark, but not so sure that is a legal case material.

  • It looks to me that it's another example of Victimizing immigrants as part of liberal agenda.  The guy doesn't speak english, and doesnt meet requirements for the job.  He is doing the right thing by learning english, and when he does he can apply.  
    Yeah, it does seem that the hiring manager didn't show good judgement to put it in writing and expose the company to public humiliation. That's a good lesson to all to be more careful what you say in an email, as it takes2 minutes to take a photo and post on twitter.
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    The company did the right thing by furing the manager. It's not appropriate in this day and age to make such irresponsible remarks.  I'm not sure if legal case would hold though, as passice aggresive remarks maynot qualify for damages.  
    Live Long and Prosper
  • These guys are really lucky that they didn't get hit with a lawsuit. The email looks like a good piece of evidence
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • VaulkVaulk 434 Pts
    How is this Racist?  
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @ale5 ;

    So. At he end of the proverbial day, it all boils down to money. 

    Money, the one God.

    Also interestingly. What do you mean by the term "non native"?
  • ale5ale5 225 Pts
    @Fredsnephew, "non native" speaker.  As the guy didn't speak english.

    @Vaulk , it's racist because the guy is Chinese. That is a different race.  The discrimination in this case is considered  iagainst immigrants, non-Englsh speakers, and is racist. If the guy would be mexican then I would agree with you that it's not racist (as Mexicans are not a separate race).

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • ale5 said:

    @Vaulk , it's racist because the guy is Chinese. That is a different race.  The discrimination in this case is considered  iagainst immigrants, non-Englsh speakers, and is racist. If the guy would be mexican then I would agree with you that it's not racist (as Mexicans are not a separate race).

    Actually, the guy is Vietnamese, not Chinese.  The ex-HR manager said he wouldn't hire ANYONE who couldn't speak English.  There are people of every race and nationality (including Americans) who cannot speak English.  This isn't racism.
  • ale5ale5 225 Pts
    @CYDdharta, thanks for clarification. I also realized after I posted the comment that he was Vietnamese. In any case, that's still a separate race.
    The racism case is more about how he said, he clearly made fun in this guy for not being able to speak english.  
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • ale5 said:
    @CYDdharta, thanks for clarification. I also realized after I posted the comment that he was Vietnamese. In any case, that's still a separate race.
    The racism case is more about how he said, he clearly made fun in this guy for not being able to speak english.  
    This is true, but not being able to speak English doesn't denote any particular race.
  • VaulkVaulk 434 Pts
    edited February 12
    @ale5

    ale5 said:
    @Fredsnephew, "non native" speaker.  As the guy didn't speak english.

    @Vaulk , it's racist because the guy is Chinese. That is a different race.  The discrimination in this case is considered  iagainst immigrants, non-Englsh speakers, and is racist. If the guy would be mexican then I would agree with you that it's not racist (as Mexicans are not a separate race).

    Allow me for a moment to question your logic here.  

    So let's say I'm white (As some Vietnamese are) and I was born in Vietnam, this means that I'm not White, instead I'm Vietnamese?  If I understand you correctly, your geographical location or citizenship equals your race?  I cannot follow this logic.  I'm afraid that your citizenship (Vietnamese) can not under any circumstances determine your Race...ever...it's not possible and defies all logic.

    Secondly, the email is derogatory no doubt and completely rude and could even be considered insulting...but it's not Racist. 

    Example: German immigrant enters a business to apply for a job but can barely speak English and what he can speak is heavily influenced by an unmistakable German accent that makes it even more difficult to understand him.  The hiring manager sends him a reply email along the lines of "If you can't sprekenzie English, you don't getenzie job".  Now this is really rude and is definitely a stab at this guy's manner of speaking...but is it Racism?  The simple answer is no, it actually has nothing to do with Race and everything to do with bad manners and a bad attitude towards ESL people.  Could you say that the hiring manager was Racist against...Germans?  IS German a race?  No...it's not. 

    So I'd like to pose my argument here that this isn't a case of Racism because the rude comments of the hiring manager had nothing to do with anyone's race and instead were targeted at mannerisms of speaking...which cannot in any way, shape or form be attributed to Race.  There is no Race of people that all speak one way or the other, that all speak one language or all speak with one accent. 

    Summary: Mocking someone's accent or inability to speak adequate English to obtain a job is not Racist...it's just really really rude and inconsiderate.


    Fascism
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • If the HR manager had rejected the application simply based on command of the English language that would be fine. A requirement for the job that can be applied to everyone regardless of race/nationality/ethnic group/etc.

    However the comment about sending him home shows an animus towards immigrants. That is not an acceptable basis for rejecting someone for a job. At the very least the HR manager showed poor judgement and nationalist field antipathy towards immigrants.
  • VaulkVaulk 434 Pts
    From the context in the email, there's no provision of conclusive evidence that the employer was targeting any immigrant status or was showing animus towards immigrants in general.  Any "Assumption" that the animus was towards immigrants is exactly just that, an assumption.  The applicant wasn't identified as an immigrant in the email nor was there any statement made concerning the immigrant status of the applicant.  The statement "I will send you home" is not indicative in any way, shape or form that the HR manager was talking about the applicant's ethnic origination or his home of residence local to that area.
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • Vaulk said:
    From the context in the email, there's no provision of conclusive evidence that the employer was targeting any immigrant status or was showing animus towards immigrants in general.  Any "Assumption" that the animus was towards immigrants is exactly just that, an assumption.  The applicant wasn't identified as an immigrant in the email nor was there any statement made concerning the immigrant status of the applicant.  The statement "I will send you home" is not indicative in any way, shape or form that the HR manager was talking about the applicant's ethnic origination or his home of residence local to that area.
    Sending people home/back to XXXXXX is in fact a specifically immigrant related comment. While in other contexts it may not have that meaning e.g. a teacher saying "I'm sending little Jimmy home because he has the flu", the meaning in this context - in relation  to an immigrant - is clear.

    To my mind anyone who disputes this is being intentionally disingenuous or is themselves not a native English speaker.

    If you wish to dispute this, please provide an alternate meaning for the phrase's usage in the email.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 537 Pts
    edited February 13
    Ampersand said:
    Sending people home/back to XXXXXX is in fact a specifically immigrant related comment. While in other contexts it may not have that meaning e.g. a teacher saying "I'm sending little Jimmy home because he has the flu", the meaning in this context - in relation  to an immigrant - is clear.

    To my mind anyone who disputes this is being intentionally disingenuous or is themselves not a native English speaker.

    If you wish to dispute this, please provide an alternate meaning for the phrase's usage in the email.
    Are you saying immigrants in the US can't or won't afford a home in this country, that they would rather rely on public housing than spend money on a place of their own?  You appear to have an unwarrantedly dim view of the abilities of immigrants.
    Pogue
  • CYDdharta said:
    Ampersand said:
    Sending people home/back to XXXXXX is in fact a specifically immigrant related comment. While in other contexts it may not have that meaning e.g. a teacher saying "I'm sending little Jimmy home because he has the flu", the meaning in this context - in relation  to an immigrant - is clear.

    To my mind anyone who disputes this is being intentionally disingenuous or is themselves not a native English speaker.

    If you wish to dispute this, please provide an alternate meaning for the phrase's usage in the email.
    Are you saying immigrants in the US can't or won't afford a home in this country, that they would rather rely on public housing than spend money on a place of their own?  You appear to have an unwarrantedly dim view of the abilities of immigrants.
    No.
  • Vaulk said:
    "If you can't sprekenzie English, you don't getenzie job"
    why tf did i laugh so hard at this. 

    anyways, 
    I don't believe this is racist, but instead just disrespectful. Insulting someone for not knowing English isn't racist. Speaking English has nothing to do with race. 
  • ale5ale5 225 Pts
    @Vaulk, there is a photo of the applicant in the article.  We can see that his is Asian, which in fact is a separate race.  The send home comment strongly implies immigrant negative connotation as well.

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • ale5 said:
    @Vaulk, there is a photo of the applicant in the article.  We can see that his is Asian, which in fact is a separate race.  The send home comment strongly implies immigrant negative connotation as well.

    Why?  Do immigrants not have homes in this country?
  • ale5ale5 225 Pts
    @CYDdharta, sure. We can literally interpret that he meant to say go home to your address, or given the broader negative context it can be interpreted meaning go back to your home country.

    It's open for debate, but I believe he meant the negative tone.

    We know that he is a different race (picture, combined with the fact that his is from Vietnam), we see that the HR person pokes at him for not speaking english, and we see that lawyers are willing to take this case pro bono.  I think it's a pretty good case, not to mention that even the company fired the guy.
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • ale5 said:
    @CYDdharta, sure. We can literally interpret that he meant to say go home to your address, or given the broader negative context it can be interpreted meaning go back to your home country.

    It's open for debate, but I believe he meant the negative tone.

    We know that he is a different race (picture, combined with the fact that his is from Vietnam), we see that the HR person pokes at him for not speaking english, and we see that lawyers are willing to take this case pro bono.  I think it's a pretty good case, not to mention that even the company fired the guy.
    I think it's a huge leap to assume the HR manager meant leaving the country; in fact one which make no sense at all.  The HR manager said "Let me tell you now, if you no speak English, I will send you home".  How would an HR manager send someone to another country???  I believe this is a ridiculous reach for people trying to find things to be offended by.
    Vaulk
  • VaulkVaulk 434 Pts
    ale5 said:
    @Vaulk, there is a photo of the applicant in the article.  We can see that his is Asian, which in fact is a separate race.  The send home comment strongly implies immigrant negative connotation as well.

    I just want to be certain on your statement here.  You can determine that this Man's Asian because of how?


    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • ale5ale5 225 Pts
    @Vaulk, looking at his picture.  I guess there is a theoritical chance 1/1000 that he isn't, but if it would go to court that would be confirmed
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
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