A charter flight left the U.S. carrying 8 Iraqis. A community wonders who will be next. - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com

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A charter flight left the U.S. carrying 8 Iraqis. A community wonders who will be next.

Opening Argument

The charter flight left on a Wednesday with eight Iraqis on board. By the following evening, the large Iraqi immigrant community in this Detroit suburb was roiled with rumors about why, with news of the departure morphing as phone calls spun into horror. Some people were talking again about whether they should go into hiding.

  1. Is this right to deport them?

    14 votes
    1. Yes
    2. No
WhyTrump - a good question

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  • "Nearly all of them have similar stories: Their families immigrated legally, often fleeing Saddam Hussein’s brutality in the 1970s, ’80s and ’90s. They settled in Detroit’s working-class, Seven Mile neighborhood, a place that grew increasingly crime-ridden. And at some point, they got into trouble.
    For one 46-year-old father of three, it was a drug conviction when he was a teenager that landed him in prison for 15 years, stripped him of his green card and earned him a deportation order "

    That seems realy cruel to deport him after all this years

    WhyTrump - a good question
  • We need to deport them and fast as well.
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    @randal, did you get a chance to review some specific stories in that article?  It seems that we are deporting these people for crimes committed a long time ago and time already served.  There is also a question if Iraq actually accepts them back.  
    I am generally supportive of these deportations though, but sounds like there are major complications.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • @agsr , I am also supportive of these deportations. Iraq is taking advantage of the United States. It's good that we are arresting them for past crimes, and Bringing them to justice. Trump should definitely investigate this and possibly solve this issue as well. The US can not be taken advantage of especially by these radical Muslim countries sending convicted felons to our country. As far as I'm concerned, we are not sending American fellows to Iraq.
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    @walterba, I agree with you.  Although, it is disturbing to read a quote from the article about a sob story about this guy whose family escaped when he was 2 and now has to go back 28 years later.  

    “I’m honestly terrified of these ICE officers. I think about suicide all the time,” said Walleed Albiraihi, 30, a Shiite Muslim whose family fled Iraq when he was 2 and whose deportation order stems from a marijuana-possession case at age 17. “You’re sending me to another country. . . . I don’t speak like them, I don’t dress like them. I have nobody in Iraq.”
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    Wake me up when america deports Europeans, For crimes they did in europe. And mainly served time for already. 
    If that's justice, Then i want no part in association with the society that deems it 'just' To do these things.
  • I agree with @logic . What happens in EU stays there.
  • PinoPino 82 Pts
    Time for America to waken up and realise that their country is being used as a dumping ground for the fallout of the world's failed nations. 
    An urgent programme of repatriation must be implemented forthwith supplemented with strict immigration controls.
    The 'sanctimonious bleeding heart brigade who will sit atop of the high moral ground bellowing about how inhuman such policies would be must be ignored.
    Mostly these ''do gooders'' live in the leafy lanes of suburbia and have no idea how these aliens are ruining the lives of 10s of 1000s of American citizens. 
    The degree of liberalism afforded to any problem is always in direct proportion to the distance from the said problem. 
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @Pino But no one would guess! America has been trying to destroy the middle east, For too long. And for what you may ask? Oil. Greed. Power.  You wouldn't even have a computer, If you didn't have arabs. Arabs created he algorithm, Created Algebra. So who are you to say this?
  • It seems to me many people are looking it this the wrong way.  These are people who violated the agreement they made when they came here.  They should have been deported back when they originally broke the law, instead they've been allowed to stay here for years longer.  They were fortunate to have been granted the extra time here.
  • @CYDdharta, excellent point. If they were deported right away like they should have been, it wouldn't be nearly as dramatic as it is now after all these years.  
  • PinoPino 82 Pts
    @Logic;- I'm afraid you're away off skew with your assertions.
    The first programmable computer was invented by Englishman, Tommy Flowers at Britain's decoding centre at Bletchley Park, England during WW2.
    Almost every invention and discovery which served to enhance the advancement and welfare of mankind was done so, in the main by those of European descent. 
    These include ''THE COMPUTER'', the internet, the language in which we're all communicating, the internal combustion engine, the diesel, the jet engine, space going rockets, the automobile, the aeroplane, the submarine, navigational aids such as the sexton, the telescope, the camera, the telephone, television, the radio, radar, sonar, the fountain pen, the ball pen, modern-high yield farming methods, almost all life saving and pain relieving drugs such as penicillin and aspirin,proper hygiene practices such as antiseptics, modern surgical operating techniques including the use of anaesthetics .
    The list of inventions made by white men is truly endless and graphically illustrates their superior qualities of innovation and insatiable quest for knowledge.
    These indisputable truths also highlight that the rest of the world, including the Arabs to whom you referred would still be living in the dark ages without ''the higher intelligence of those of white European origin.
    It also emphasises that we could continue to prosper, probably more rapidly,  without the presence, or even the existence of other races and/or ethnic groups.

  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    edited April 2017
    @Pino  I didn't say arabs created the computer, I said without them, You wouldn't have it. How? https://www.britannica.com/topic/algorithm
    Please don't give me the 'White mens invention list is endless' 
    As for @CYDdharta If they did the crime in america, Then they should be deported, If they did the crime in Iraw, Why should they be deported?
    And why aren't americans deported to europe? America is the one country that has immigrants calling natives, IMMIGRANTS. Did you people forget who founded america? http://www.islamicity.org/6062/1421-the-year-a-chinese-muslim-discovered-america/
    You're deporting the same people who created the nation you stand on.
    This is absurd, Absolutely abs
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    @Logic,a few points:
    1) did Chinese "discover" America before Columbus? Maybe.  The evidence maybe there.  http://www.economist.com/node/5381851
    However, the Chinese, having discovered the extent of the world, did not exploit it, politically or commercially. After all, Columbus's discovery of America led to exploitation and then development by Europeans which, 500 years later, made the United States more powerful than China had ever been.
    So even if Zheng He discovered it,it had no real bearing on World history - Columbus had.  I see no mention that Zheng was muslim in economist article, but even if he was, thst is mildly interesting at best.
    2) I don't see Pino bring white supremacist based on his comments. His statements are factual.  It seems that you are trying to argue a point about contribution of Arabs to the society.  I support your opinion that Arabs undoubtedly had meaningful inventions (including numbers system), but at the same time we know that Europeans and Americans had far more inventions than Arabs.  In any case, that takes this debate completely off topic. We are arguing if these folks from Irag with criminal records should be deported or not, and IMHO it has little bearing if Arab ancestors invented something useful.
    3) it is true that America is based on immigrants, and in our blood there are anscestors from many nations.  That said, we accepted accountability by coming here and becoming citizens - we are Americans foremost.  So we have protect our country regardless of our prior heritage.  That is the key point.  If a criminal violates that trust, he/she deporting him back is a reasonable approach.  I agree with you that it's not clean cut, and we can debate practical elements of that.  I was also disturbed by the unrest of Iraqi-American community that is highly concerned about deportations - many of them I am sure are great people.  That said, that is a side issue, and I certainly don't think it's absurd to deport them.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @agsr Deport them, When they commit a crime on your ground.  I'm pretty sure some were deported for crimes, They had done in Iraq. 
    Can you link me a source for the inventions?  [Not sarcastic, I'm just interested]
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    @Logic, here are some sources for muslim inventions

    these are pretty important, but the list is rather short given explosive pace of innovation in the last 100 years with Internet, technology, industrial revolution, etc..most of which was American, European.  

    Again, I am not taking away from Muslims for the credit to our society.

    Regarding deportations, I understood that the 8 deported wete based on crimes committed in the US. The article even outlines some specific stories.

    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @agsr If they commit a crime in the US, Then fine,  It seems fit to deport them. 
    As for the inventions,  http://www.aquila-style.com/focus-points/muslimlifestyle/the-contributions-of-muslims-to-medicine/16873/
    Without muslims, There wouldn't be modern day Algebra.
    Without muslims, There wouldn't be Cameras .
    According to my source Europe alone invented 34 things, 
    Here's 19 more muslim inventions, On top of the medicine . http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/muslim-inventions/
    here, http://yumtoyikes.com/2016/08/07/inventions-of-muslim-scientists/
    Skip the ones that were in earlier links. 
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    @Logic, thank you. I am glad you agree to deport them.  
    Regarding inventions, thank you as well.  These are good examples and I am in agreement that these are all valuable contributions to our society.  I will maintain my position that most innovation, especially in the last 100 years comes from non-Muslim world, but again I respect contributions over the centuries from Arab innovators.

    Nice debating with you.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • Yes, they are felons which need to be deported back to Iraq. We are not a prison, that means we don't take international criminals. 
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @agsr Same here. But i would like to get one more statement in.
    Some inventions made by muslims, Paved the way for better inventions by non muslims. And i agree in the last 100 years, Non muslims have done more than muslims. 

  • Logic said:
    America has been trying to destroy the middle east, For too long. And for what you may ask? Oil. Greed. Power.  
    I agree with @logic . The US should not be intervening internationally especially at such a dangerous place called the Middle East with forces fighting for a very long time now and recordist groups being located here as well such as ISIS.
  • PinoPino 82 Pts
    @logic;- rather than simply not respond to what I consider to be your irrational argument spawned from your juvenile mentality I feel obliged to extend you the courtesy of explaining why I feel it futile to respond to try to make any serious reply to your post(s). 
    My assessment that you are incapable of sound and reasoned judgement is partially due to your apparent inability to recognise that a criminal is a criminal regardless of where his/her act of criminality was committed.
    If we follow your incoherent logic to it's natural conclusion then we must accept that it would be justifiable to grant legal immigration status to serial rapists, mass murderers, people traffickers, pimps, those guilty of acts of deadly terrorism, paedophiles or the perpetrators of any crime, or number of crimes providing they were not committed on American soil.

  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @Pino I don't even know what comment you are replying to. 
    But i think you should get off your high horse, And be a bit respectful.
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    Hi @Pino, I think that @Logic agreed in his earlier comment that these criminals should be deported. So I think we are all good and have consensus on this issue.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • @pino or @logic , maybe you should make a debate on who made more inventions, whites or muslims or other.
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @foundue_47 That doesn't even matter anymore, Aren't we all humans? Who cares who created what... He needs to understand, That nobody is going to shoot him, If he debates politely. 
  • VaulkVaulk 434 Pts
    @Logic , Good evening, Former Correctional Officer for "Geo Group" private correctional facility 2005-2007.  During my work as a Correctional Officer, I facilitated the needs and supervision of hundreds upon hundreds of illegal immigrants in our Corrections Facility located in Karnes City, Texas.  Of these Illegal Immigrants, a vast majority were indeed from Mexico, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Panama ect ect.  Some however, were from Russia, Germany, France, England, Wales, Poland, Italy, Netherlands, Ukraine, Norway...the point I'm making is:  You asked for a wake up, here it is...It's time to wake up @Logic , the U.S. has been deporting Europeans for quite some time back to their European origins.  I personally spoke to these mostly white, English speaking people who had lived in the U.S. most of their lives but who also failed to obtain legal citizenship status.  The law didn't excuse them for Illegally entering the Country and rightfully so.
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".

  • Interesting, @vaulk , and agreed.
  • PinoPino 82 Pts
    @LogicThat is the cowardly answer of someone who is unwilling to bow courageously to their obvious defeat.
    The genetic supremacy of the race which invented/discovered the vast majority of what goes to make up the modern world must be acknowledged as it is vital that this information is used to restrict  the dilution of their superior genes. 
    An unwillingness to accept and overtly admit the glaring truth, which a shortsighted dimwit on a galloping horse could see from a mile off, does not diminish in any way whatsoever the irrefutable totality of it's accuracy. 

  • PinoPino 82 Pts
    @agsr;- Yes, thanks for that, I have read his text in full, something which I should have done earlier and admit I was wrong for not doing so. 
  • PinoPino 82 Pts
    @foundue_47 Hi there, I think we'd win by default. 
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @Vaulk  Gotcha. I already acknowledge that they need to be deported. 
    By the way, I wasn't talking about  illegal immigrants. 
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @Pino Why so arrogant?  Why so prideful? 
    Why don't we see? But  notice how he says 'more inventions'.  If so, I'm ready any time. Would you like me to create a debate? 
    Just remember, Pride is for the ignorant. And arrogance is for the backwards. So stop wasting your time and finger strength, Preaching your arrogance and hate. 
  • I agree with you @logic . You should make that debate.
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    edited April 2017
    Pino said:
    The genetic supremacy of the race which invented/discovered the vast majority of what goes to make up the modern world must be acknowledged as it is vital that this information is used to restrict  the dilution of their superior genes. 

    Hi @Pino, As you know I support the position that most of innovation came from non-muslims.  I however, don't support a position that it is genetic supremacy.  I don't see conclusive evidence of such a claim.  It is possible that muslims focus on different values than technological advancements and due to wars and poverty over ages didn't get right opportunities.  
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    I will continue on my thread later, Because i have no time right now @Pino ;
  • VaulkVaulk 434 Pts
    This debate has degenerated badly lol
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".

  • PinoPino 82 Pts
    @agsr Hi agsr, I absolutely agree with your thinking on the ''race supremacy'' issue as I'm only too well aware of the potential dangers of such a dogma.
    My post to the contrary was only to niggle another party. 
    To make my position clear I must point that I am passionately anti fascist but have often pondered why so much of the scientific discoveries/inventions were made by Europeans, and also why they were the ones who made the great, perilous adventurous journeys of discovery which led to the nations of the world coming together. 
    This train of thought lead me to thinking how it was the German nation ( against whom my family fought in WW2, with my uncle being shot down over Leuven Belgium on route to bomb the V2 site at Peenemunde) was so successful as a military power during WW2 that it took the combined military might of the United States of America, the U.K, and troops from it's  so called Empire, and Russia to bring the Nasis regime to it's knees.
    Then after WW2 when Germany was divided among their victorious enemies and probably the most scorned nation on earth with its buildings and infrastructure no more than a pile of rubble, rose from the ashes to become the powerhouse of Europe, the third largest economy in the world.
    Germany, along with Britain and France was one of three recipients of American financial aid through the 'Marshall Plan''.
    Needless to say it was Germany which used the American money to the best advantage and left both the U.K. and France in it's dust as it forged ahead. 
    The most prestigious automobile marques in the world are;- Mercedes, Audi, B.M.W. and Rolls Royce which is now German owned.
    These vehicle manufactures, not forgetting Volkswagen, along with German industrial engineering giants such as Siemens and Bosch have swept all before them in Europe and are ahead of most of the low cost labour manufacturing nations of Asia.
    If the rest of Europe, and indeed America were as efficient as the ( superior??????) Germans the western economies would all be flourishing.
    Is it only by chance or coincidence that this Germanic nation continues to rise to the top of the pile
    At the very least the possibility of the superiority of these high achieving people would be worth consideration and even warrant a study to identify the reason for their persistent outstanding performance as a nation. 
    If you can't beat them, join them. 
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