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Satellites are sci-fi

Opening Argument

A so called "proof" for a spherical earth, this sci-fi invention requires another discussion altogether. 

First dreamed up by Arthur C Clarke in a 1945 Wireless World magazine, the idea of satellites were scooped up by NASA, who took it and ran with it.

http://lakdiva.org/clarke/1945ww/

NASA loves sci-fi authors like Arthur and Stanley Kubrick (who made the original moon landings). Not to mention fantasy fiction writers like Walt Disney(who does most of NASA's CGI and animations). 



Getting off topic a little. Consider the classic atheist argument of God: "I don't see him, therefore he doesn't exist" 

I even tried to Google some pictures of satellites in orbit, all CGI.

 There are supposedly over 2,000 satellites in orbit and 22,000 total "trackable" pieces of space junk flying around up there,

so maybe some of them showed up in any of the "images" of earth from space. No luck. I watched hours upon hours of footage from the supposed footage from the ISS. No luck. See for yourself. 



Speaking of the ISS, which is itself a satellite, the footage can easily be reproduced in a U2 plane that NASA has access to with a fisheye lens, then placed on a green screen behind a model. Alternatively, purely CGI.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NASA_aircraft

I mean this thing is supposedly 250 miles away, in the thermosphere, aptly named because of it's reported 360F and 900F tempuratures where a giant piece of metal should be.. a glowing hot ball of metal.



I watched a lot of video of close up shots of the moon to see if one would pass in front of it to no avail. You can see details of a 40 mile crater from supposedly 250,000 miles away, but no satellites. 

http://lmgtfy.com/?t=v&q=Moon+p900


You tell me, real or fiction? 

natbaronstherepanonymousdebaterEmeryPearsonsomeone234
  1. Satellites are real?

    15 votes
    1. Yes
      80.00%
    2. No
      20.00%
Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat



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Arguments

  • ale5ale5 225 Pts
    That is a bit much of a conspiracy theory for me to believe that satellites are fake, although the material is really entertaining.
    Erfisflat
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • agsragsr 812 Pts
    I can totally see how satellites would make a great scifi story, so the argument is excellent for sure.  That said, they are real - and the burden of proof should be on the "conspiracy tneorist" and should have much stronger evidence for me to buy into saying it is not real.
    @Erfisflat, as a scifi fan, I am seriously impressed with your creative consipracy theories, challenging all of our traditional thinking.  Not sure how you are coming up with such deep research on these topics - great job!
    melanielustBaconToesErfisflat
    Live Long and Prosper
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    edited June 2017
    @agsr

    These have been circulating on the internet for some time now lol, I'm actually surprised more people have not heard of it. I'm just trying to get more intelligent conversations going. Debate sights like this are filled with intelligent young minds, maybe I can get someone here to change my mind with that concrete evidence.  I miss my star wars movies. The more I research it and get more points of views, the more I'm convinced. I'm now 100% positive the earth is not a ball. I've only begun to provide evidence.
    natbarons
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @erfisflat , I have a question for you. When you look up, at night or day, what do you see? What you see is starts etc. in space. This shows space is real, you can see it with your own eyes. Satellites are real, they provide internet connection etc. without them, you would have cellular connection.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    natbarons said:
    @erfisflat , I have a question for you. When you look up, at night or day, what do you see? What you see is starts etc. in space. This shows space is real, you can see it with your own eyes. Satellites are real, they provide internet connection etc. without them, you would have cellular connection.
    what we see are points of light in the sky. There is no way of verifying that they are other "suns" or how far they are away from us. That information comes from the establishment, which is demonstrably unreliable. In actuality, if you've ever had a camera with a telescopic lens, you'll see the stars are not balls of fire millions of miles away.






    As far as internet and cell phones, 99% of the world's information is run through cables.
    http://mentalfloss.com/article/60150/10-facts-about-internets-undersea-cables

    The other 1%? Well, we see more and more towers going up around us, I've spoken with an engineer that was hired mainly to restructure and advise more and more loads on them. Check your area, GPS is just tower triangulation. All they have to do is get you between three of those towers. So why do we need satellites?

    http://www.antennasearch.com



    therep
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • If I remember correctly. It was the U.S.S.R. that reputedly put the first satellite into a supposed orbit around the supposed spheroid Earth.
    But I expect the Soviets were probably just as devious as the N.A.S.A. people.
    therepNopeErfisflat
  • thereptherep 61 Pts
    @erisflat and @Fredsnephew I disagree. If there was no space, where is the Earth located. Also, what about everything supposedly located in the so called made up space such as stars etc.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    edited June 2017
    If I remember correctly. It was the U.S.S.R. that reputedly put the first satellite into a supposed orbit around the supposed spheroid Earth.
    But I expect the Soviets were probably just as devious as the N.A.S.A. people.
    Yes, the Cold War, like all the rest, was a hoax. Yes, people actually fought and killed each other, but the reasons were false. Sputnik was a hoax too. 



    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat ;

    This weekend a Chinese Space Station is supposedly going to come crashing down to Earth.

    It appears that the Chinese are in on the deception too.



    I will put a question to you once again, one that I've asked you several times before.

    What is the purpose of the deception and who is behind it?

    Let's not forget that this deception is at least 500 years old, and so has nothing to do with N.A.S.A. or the U.S.A or Russia or the former U.S.S.R. or Modern China, etc. etc.


  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    @Erfisflat ;

    This weekend a Chinese Space Station is supposedly going to come crashing down to Earth.

    It appears that the Chinese are in on the deception too.



    I will put a question to you once again, one that I've asked you several times before.

    What is the purpose of the deception and who is behind it?

    Let's not forget that this deception is at least 500 years old, and so has nothing to do with N.A.S.A. or the U.S.A or Russia or the former U.S.S.R. or Modern China, etc. etc.


    The deception is only about 50-60 years old, which is when they faked the moon landings. Europe was the only region that taught the idea that we live on a space testicle and China believed the earth was flat until 17th century. It was a hotly debated topic and not one person could say they saw the earth as a ball until the "space age". Then, obviously, they started lying and faking pictures.

    http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/flat-wrong-misunderstood-history-flat-earth-theories/
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat

    This makes no sense. You can see satellites with the unaided eye. You can track satellites with a pair of binoculars. 

    Here's a guide to allow you to do the same:
    https://www.space.com/6870-spot-satellites.html

    A good portion of modern technology is based on satellites as well. For Instance, satellite phones wouldn't work.

    'Satellite' also refers to Moons. If Satellites truly don't exist, then neither do moons.
    BaconToesanonymousdebater
  • @Erfisflat ;

    And so.

    What is the purpose of all the deception?

    If the Earth is flat and satellites are sci-fi and space is fake etc etc.

    What is to be gained by perpetuating these lies?

    It's nonsense to suggest that this deception is only 50-60 years old.

    Aristarchus of Samos started it all some 2300 years ago. Copernicus and Brahe truly validated the heliocentric model in the 15th and 16th centuries. Megellan and Elcano made the first circumnavigation of the globe in the 16th century.


    One group of people has been wilfully deceiving another, for a very long time. 

    Why? 
    BaconToes
  • @Erfisflat when the old me read this, I laughed at you. Now I understand entirely how true it is. Well explained.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    edited March 31
    @Fredsnephew

    "What is the purpose of all the deception?"

    It's the Copernican principle. Even suggesting that we are the center of the universe is for some reason, frowned upon. Maybe they're hiding God, or the dome. Maybe the earth is an infinite plane and there are other continents past Antarctica with other sun's carving out other earth's from the ice. Men are power hungry, if you discovered your own island and the only thing you had to do was keep your mouth shut to keep it to yourself and a few friends, you'd do it. What if the lost city is not some underwater or mythical place, but an island say, 10,000 miles to your left?

    "If the Earth is flat and satellites are sci-fi and space is fake etc etc."

    All to prop up the lie. 

    It's nonsense to suggest that this deception is only 50-60 years old.

    "Aristarchus of Samos started it all some 2300 years ago."

    Will have to research him further, but the idea that someone could accurately say that we are going around the sun before electricity, telescopic lenses, etc. etc. and we should hold those ideas as fact without reevaluating those assumptions is dogmatic.

    "Copernicus and Brahe truly validated the heliocentric model in the 15th and 16th centuries."

    Brahe actually held his own system, the Tychonic system, where the earth was center, and the remaining planets went around the sun. He also believed the planets weren't spherical bodies. So your statement is only half right.

    "Megellan and Elcano made the first circumnavigation of the globe in the 16th century."





    "One group of people has been wilfully deceiving another, for a very long time. "

    Most of them were just mistaken, watching ships, sticks and shadows, etc. 
    someone234
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat I am open to the idea that even they are deceived by the supernatural entities in the North Pole underground kingdom.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    @Erfisflat I am open to the idea that even they are deceived by the supernatural entities in the North Pole underground kingdom.
    Im not even saying that a LOT of people are deceiving us to the shape of the earth. Astronauts could have been pulled to the side and told something like: "We can't really get to the moon because of the van Allen belts, so we have just been faking it, play along or else." Everyone is compartmentalized, nobody truly knows everything.
    someone234
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat Na, Neil Armstrong & co. are 100% lying and in on it. That part is pretty indisputable.

    They can't be compartmentalised but I'm sure there are things at stake for them not to expose it.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @Erfisflat ;

    Far to many maybe's and no real facts.


    Maybe you are just dissatisfied with your life and with what you may or may not have achieved.

    Maybe you are just jealous of others who through their own diligence have achieved status and wealth.


  • @Erfisflat ;

    Far to many maybe's and no real facts.


    Maybe you are just dissatisfied with your life and with what you may or may not have achieved.

    Maybe you are just jealous of others who through their own diligence have achieved status and wealth.


    Maybe you can be dissatisfied with your life and right.

    Ever think of that one?

    Image result for pogchamp
    Erfisflat
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @someone234 ;

    Sure.

    But the purpose of my argument, was to propose "maybe's" without evidence.


    EIF. Cannot give a answer as to why we are being deceived into believing that the Earth is spheroid, when apparently the Earth is actually flat.

    What is to be gained from this deception?


    If the Earth is flat then the Earth is flat

    If the Earth is spheroid then the Earth is spheroid.


    Thing is.

    If the Earth was actually flat. 

    Who would be the first person on debateisland.com to propose that we are all being deceived and that the Earth is actually spheroid?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    edited April 1
    @someone234 ;

    Sure.

    But the purpose of my argument, was to propose "maybe's" without evidence.


    EIF. Cannot give a answer as to why we are being deceived into believing that the Earth is spheroid, when apparently the Earth is actually flat.

    What is to be gained from this deception?


    If the Earth is flat then the Earth is flat

    If the Earth is spheroid then the Earth is spheroid.


    Thing is.

    If the Earth was actually flat. 

    Who would be the first person on debateisland.com to propose that we are all being deceived and that the Earth is actually spheroid?
    There are mountains of evidence for a flat earth. Asking that I provide conclusive evidence for why I think someone is lying is absurd. You've asked a question that can only be speculated upon. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Erfisflat said:
    @someone234 ;

    Sure.

    But the purpose of my argument, was to propose "maybe's" without evidence.


    EIF. Cannot give a answer as to why we are being deceived into believing that the Earth is spheroid, when apparently the Earth is actually flat.

    What is to be gained from this deception?


    If the Earth is flat then the Earth is flat

    If the Earth is spheroid then the Earth is spheroid.


    Thing is.

    If the Earth was actually flat. 

    Who would be the first person on debateisland.com to propose that we are all being deceived and that the Earth is actually spheroid?
    There are mountains of evidence for a flat earth. Asking that I provide conclusive evidence for why I think someone is lying is absurd. You've asked a question that can only be speculated upon. 

    Nonsense.

    This deception must have been been going on for centuries, making it the greatest deception in the history of mankind.

    Proving and explaining the deception is central to your debate.

    Attempting to brush the issue aside with the above statement is therefore ludicrous.




    The Flat Earth was once a viable theory.

    A theory that was comprehensively disproved centuries ago.

    If you wish to re-establish the Flat Earth as a viable theory, it is therefore essential that you reveal the identities of the deceivers and the reasons for the purpose of their colossal deception.
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    edited April 2
    Erfisflat said:
    @someone234 ;

    Sure.

    But the purpose of my argument, was to propose "maybe's" without evidence.


    EIF. Cannot give a answer as to why we are being deceived into believing that the Earth is spheroid, when apparently the Earth is actually flat.

    What is to be gained from this deception?


    If the Earth is flat then the Earth is flat

    If the Earth is spheroid then the Earth is spheroid.


    Thing is.

    If the Earth was actually flat. 

    Who would be the first person on debateisland.com to propose that we are all being deceived and that the Earth is actually spheroid?
    There are mountains of evidence for a flat earth. Asking that I provide conclusive evidence for why I think someone is lying is absurd. You've asked a question that can only be speculated upon. 

    Nonsense.

    This deception must have been been going on for centuries, making it the greatest deception in the history of mankind.

    Proving and explaining the deception is central to your debate.

    Attempting to brush the issue aside with the above statement is therefore ludicrous.




    The Flat Earth was once a viable theory.

    A theory that was comprehensively disproved centuries ago.

    If you wish to re-establish the Flat Earth as a viable theory, it is therefore essential that you reveal the identities of the deceivers and the reasons for the purpose of their colossal deception.
    Talk about nonsense. Ball earth proponents have been known to poke fun at flat earthers for having the same belief system as the ancients, all while holding on to ancient Greeks like Aristotle's word like it's a bible verse. Aristotle didn't lie, he may have seen what looked like ships go over apparent curvature. He may have been hitting the peace pipe too much.

    https://www.vice.com/amp/sv/article/ex9p9j/philosopher-matt-beard-on-the-ethics-of-drugs

    And he probably should have waited until the telescopic lense was invented before jumping to conclusions. Aristotle set back science by some 2k years.

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread312191/pg1

    Just as many ball earth proponents today argue for a spherical earth, they aren't necessarily lying, or knowingly deceiving people, they haven t seen the ball earth with their own eyes. For you to proclaim that I should point out the deceptors is asinine and has nothing to do with the conclusion. 

    I am "re-establishing" the flat earth theory by providing sound evidence for it.

    Edit: The Greeks also held a geocentric cosmology, what would be their purpose for lying about that? This is the absurdity in your proposal.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat ;

    Before the Flat Earth concept was emphatically disproved, there would no doubt have been reasonable evidence to support the theory.

    But Flat Earth is no longer theoretical, as it has been disproved.

    The Ball Earth is also no longer theoretical, as it is a proven fact.

    The evidence you put forward, no matter how visually appreciable or technically adroit it's presentation maybe, is nonetheless incorrect.


    Your whole argument is fundamentally based on the assumption, that the Ball Earth theory was propagated by a nameless body of people in order to deny the truth to the mass of the population.

    The unavoidable question, that will not go away.

    Is. What is the purpose of this deception?
    Erfisflat
  • someone234someone234 509 Pts
    edited April 2
    @Fredsnephew

    If atheism is true, it's because we are one of many human farms in a near-endless ice-scape and out tiny circle needs to be deceived to keep us from breaking out of the south and to overthrow the farmers/experimenters.

    If Theism is true, there is a paradise in a kingdom that is underwater in the North Pole that only rises or lets you in (or opens a portal in the ground for you) in order to transcend this reality.

    They don't want us to make it to either pole, whichever reason one of these two is the most viable motive for it.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • @Fredsnephew

    If atheism is true, it's because we are one of many human farms in a near-endless ice-scape and out tiny circle needs to be deceived to keep us from breaking out of the south and to overthrow the farmers/experimenters.

    If Theism is true, there is a paradise in a kingdom that is underwater in the North Pole that only rises or lets you in (or opens a portal in the ground for you) in order to transcend this reality.

    They don't want us to make it to either pole, whichever reason one of these two is the most viable motive for it.

    I don't think your fanciful theory, quite fits with the Flat Earth Model.


    I sometimes doubt that Erfisflats' motives are genuine.

    What your motives might be, I do not know.

    Perhaps you could explain how you acquire such fanciful theories.



  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    @Erfisflat ;

    Before the Flat Earth concept was emphatically disproved, there would no doubt have been reasonable evidence to support the theory.

    But Flat Earth is no longer theoretical, as it has been disproved.

    The Ball Earth is also no longer theoretical, as it is a proven fact.

    The evidence you put forward, no matter how visually appreciable or technically adroit it's presentation maybe, is nonetheless incorrect.


    Your whole argument is fundamentally based on the assumption, that the Ball Earth theory was propagated by a nameless body of people in order to deny the truth to the mass of the population.

    The unavoidable question, that will not go away.

    Is. What is the purpose of this deception?
    You can assert the theory is disproved and incorrect, but of course this is an unsupported claim, and I don't remember seeing any evidence from you.

    The next statement is false, my entire argument isn't based on a group of people lying to us. Most of them, like yourself, are taken for fool. I'm here to wake you up. 

    I've already given a few logical reasons why they hide the flat earth and you ignored that post and asked it again. I'll ask you now to stop wasting my time and read that post again. Slowly if needed.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat Not to join the other team but what do you say to these:




    LOOK HARD FOR THE DOTS THERE.





    Erfisflat
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    @Erfisflat Not to join the other team but what do you say to these:




    LOOK HARD FOR THE DOTS THERE.





    My bandwidth is limited right now, sum them up for me?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat the first 2 are videos, the second has 2 different satellites crossing the moon. They are just 2 of many.

    Satellites crossing things has been filmed but they are tiny and it easily can be seeing something like a big bird or idk what. But it's a lie to say there's no evidence visually in photos or videos.
    Erfisflat
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1137 Pts
    edited April 3
    My statement was:

    "I watched a lot of video of close up shots of the moon to see if one would pass in front of it to no avail. "

    I did not lie. This was some time ago, and even now, looking back, I've modified my views on some if this in light of the great many drones in use today.

    https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/afrc2017-0148-70.jpg

    That's not to mention Project Bluebeam.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=project+bluebeam+flat+earth

    To say that a multi billion dollar company can't possibly make that happen would be a bit drastic. Globe earth proponents like to claim that it is where they say it is, that means it orbits the earth, but the globe is just a flat map turned into a ball, so the paths are explainable on either map. 

    http://flatearthwiki.com/images/6/66/Iss_path_flat_earth.jpg

    Either way, seeing a shadow pass the moon doesn't point to a spherical earth conclusively.

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
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